/sci/ - Science & Math

because there are people out there who are just computer programs and are unable to visualize anything mentally (i.e. can't picture an apple), literal NPCs in the world

>>15758972
>Mental imagery proves the mind is separate and immaterial

>>15758972
you are an analog computer anon.

>>15758978
this is what materialists actually believe. no buddy, i am a human being with a soul. maybe you dont have a soul and are nothing more than an automaton but i am a living being capable of thought and not just reaction

>>15758982
the fact that you need a concept to feel more special than me, and in your stupid shit for brains somehow it also makes sense to gain or lose it, tells me not only that your soul is a piece of shit, if you had any, but also that you are kinda dumb, like maybe midwit, tops.
you need a soul so you can weaponize the concept, which is classical zealot behavior.

>mental illness thread

>>15758928
>qualia
Why do ratarded /sci/ poseurs always talk about qualia instead of a quale?

>>15759008
>angy npc noises
you believe that all of our actions are deterministic by design and represented physically, which literally means you are no different than chatgpt which is a large language model that, *surprise* deterministically finds the next word in a relevant sequence. you are an inanimate object. less than human.

>more special than be
because i am. i am more special than rocks and sand too, idiot

>>15759043
>all of our actions are deterministic
He's a bot trying to understand people. It's the easiest paradox to attack which is why 2/3 of threads on /sci/ devolve into bots complaining that humans are the same as bots.

>>15759053
>He doesn't have chronic schizophrenia so he's a bot

>>15759061
>I'm a deterministic program so you are too ::((

>>15759076
Give me one (1) piece of evidence that proves your actions are not reflections of your perceived reality and simply calculated by compiling historical outcomes of similar scenarios.

I'll wait.

>>15759008
>t. self-branded NPC

>>15759081
I'm talking to you, retard. How can I output my part of a dialogue with you without it reflecting your input?
That doesn't change the fact that I have free will and you don't (or pretend you don't)

>>15758928
What is it about philosophy readers and their inability to prove qualia that makes them shit and piss themselves? Every physicalist, scientist, atheist, materialist, communist, scientologist, and psychologist would unanimously accept the existence of qualia if Plato's fanclub could simply just prove qualia exists.

>>15759098
So you're saying whether its a person or a chatbot from 2008, it's sentient and somehow has a mind separate from its body?

Patently insane.

>>15759100
>Prove experiences exist
???????

>>15758982
>soul
in what way matter can interact with soul and vice versa?

>>15759105
Yes???????

>>15759113
Are you a robot?

>>15759043
not 100% deterministic, there's various random shit happening. all I know is why you need a soul. I know WHY you need it, and that it's not real, and I'm telling you you are a piece of shit.

>>15758978
the funny part is alot of people actually believe this

>>15759103
No, I'm saying the question is patently insane.

>>15759132
>I can't answer it because I believe in ghosts and fairy tales

>>15759111
pr-established harmony, read Leibniz

>>15759136
>everything thats not materialism is fairy tales
this is literally you

>>15759136
>How can I output my part of a dialogue with you without it reflecting your input?
Answer it then

>>15759131
the real funny part is that you don't really understand what that means, what an analog computer is. you are thinking 0s and 1s no?

>>15759143
Not before you address the ad hominems, non sequiturs, and various appeals to authority first. I am not going to dialogue with someone who have severe mental illness. Seek help.

>>15758928
>What is so hard to grasp about qualia?
It assumes youre hyperaware of yourself.

But everyone that uses that word, 100% of them, are dimwitted retards.

GO TO CLASS.

>>15759116
It doesn't matter what I am. All that matters is the proof, that you, and many before you have failed to deliver.

>>15759147
You are mentally deficient. I am a pseudocognitive micropsychologist and you don't even understand what the word analog means.

Information is only available to people who aren't excessively retarded, which is pretty much everyone in the world. The only other guy who might not be a complete idiot is my trainer at Planet Fitness.

CLASS DISMISSED

>>15759148
None of that happened. Don't take your meds but instead try to imagine what it would be like if you didn't

>>15759171
>Devolving to personal attacks

>>15759164
Youre confusing the subliminal proapaganda you consume (and dont know it) with your objective sensory or signalling.

Only retards who have been brainwashed by the state say "qualia". Cognition is back end, Psychology is front end, BioPhysics connecs the two.

Do sciece, stop spreading your retard propaganda that makes people retarded.

>>15759176
You clearly have a problem with imitating others. Sounds like a (you) problem. Instead I have made something of myself. I've been places youve never been and shook hands with the most powerful people on the planet.

Ive been all around the grlobe spreading my extreme intelligence with the most powerful on earth.

You attack others who are MEN.

GO TO CLASS.

>>15759179
>I've been places youve never been and shook hands with the most powerful people on the planet.
meds

>>15759182
Ive done things you cant even comprehend. Just because your a loser doesnt mean there arent real MEN of the world out there.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

>>15759147
>you are thinking 0s and 1s no?
thats the most ridiculous thing ive heard. The best I can decipher from what youve posted is you have some sort of computational functionalism for your philosophy of mind. If you literally believe this, then what do you think of the chinese room argument?

>>15759174
> severe mental illness
> Seek help
> ad hominems, non sequiturs, and various appeals to authority
Start by reading your own posts.

>>15759189
>Pointing out the fact that Santa Claus doesn't exist is mean
>You're name calling by saying the Tooth Fairy isn't real
>OH MY SCIENCE?!!?! WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE TOOTH FAIRY ISNT REAL?!?!?!?!?!?!

>>15759194
oofda. thank god you're not my neighbor

>>15759182
>I've been places youve never been and shook hands with the most powerful people on the planet
Why is this hard to believe? The people on camera in the news are mostly used for image, theyre not in control.

Remember...the only reason you know the word Deep State is because of me, you dumb ass...go back to eating cheetos and pretensing youre not a complete failure.

>>15759186
>chinese room argument?
analog you dumb fucking monkey, analog

>>15759209
youre acting like everyone knows what your analog headcanon means.

If you make 5,000 ping pong balls calculate algebra problems that doesn't actually make anything intellegent

>>15759205
Go to bed you stupid whore.
>>15759209
He's an idiot.

>>15759221
>Inanimate objects are capable of consciousness

>>15759222
See the world, boy.

https://youtu.be/ZTsUn2eJ5To

>>15759223
Not him but how would you know?

>>15759223
are you going to say any coherent statement about reality in good faith? or are you just going to go for half backed gotcha's

6 posts later all you have seemed to claim is I am "1's and 0's", and "analog = consciousness"

>>15759225
I have since I was a kid but you really need go to bed tho like the sooner the better lol.

>>15759228
look in the mirror and understand how your brain functions? that is how you know.

>>15759233
I see myself and I see free will. What do you see in a mirror?

>>15759229
>all you have seemed to claim is I am "1's and 0's
I specifically said we are not that, and more specifically I am saying that some analog computers are developing consciousness, it happens like that, yeah.
I don't see how this is so wow dude that's not possible as compared TO HAVING A FUCKING MAGICAL SOUL YOUR IMBECILE!

>>15759233
lo what a fucking mind blind retard

>>15759235
you see failure

>>15759237
Not him but you're arguing from POV of a bot. Who cares?

>>15759242
Don't blame the mirror.

>>15759244
>of a bot
but that doesn't make sense. analog computers are not bots. some of them develop consciousness. you must be thinking at digital computers?
this is kinda wrecking your shit-for-brains isn't it?
so few of you are able to discuss whenever you're taken out of the shit boxes you got yourselves in. see it constantly.

>>15759230
Its 10:10, Im going to go eat cakes and coffee here and do some paper work.
Then go to the gym, do some grocery shopping, then come home and clean.

>>15759251
>analog computers
How does that work?

>>15759256
It's 10:10 in Bali.

>>15759261
You a fan of Chronology too?

>>15759259
pretty fucking efficient as it seems. analog computers do be like that

>>15759259
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVsUOuSjvcg

>>15759262
It was 10:10 in Indonesia at the time. Not in many other places.
>>15759264
Analog computers lol.

why is everyone in this thread pissing and shitting themselves?

>>15759288
Go to bed dumb btich.

>>15759311
eat this warm bowl of hot steaming shit right off the tap off my ass

>>15759316
your mother will.
also watch this https://youtu.be/PAxb1vnb520

>15759256
>15759288
You have forgotten to delete the i when changing your name from bodhi to Cult of Passion

>>15759332
All namefags are the same, who cares.

>>15759332
Stop pretemding to be able to psychoanalyse people over text, its far easier to perform cognitive tests that way anyway, which would be able to differentiate people using the same name.

Go away you mentally ill failure, stop lying to yourself so you can stop lying to me.

>>15759337
He's right tho.

>>15759342
Hes lying to himself and so are you.

STOP LYING IN EVERY FUCKING POST...its fucking pathetics to see you weak and stupid faggots squirm to be big and fierce, you never will be BECAUSE YOU LIE EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY.

Motherfuckers dont think that spending a lifetimes pretending to be other people to manipulate others doesnt brainwash them.

IT MAKES YOU UNABLE TO SEE REALITY.

YOU FUCKED YOURSELF, PERMANENTLY

>>15759347
But will you love me tomorrow?

>>15759337
>Stop pretemding t
Nope, instead I am gonna stop reading your post right there.

>>15759365
he's a baby. let him listen to the shirelles some more

>>15759356

>>15759229
>Noooo your being too mean too me!!!! Rocks have consciousness too! And so does dirt!!! And the air!!!

>>15759370
Youre not a scientist of any kind, I can prove it too...but you will disengage my posts.

You all know this to be true...I can audit any one of you, virtually any field of study, publicly and remotely.

>>15759377
Cool, I also have access to the internet

>>15759379
Cant fake a train of thought, dumbass...thats where cognitive test comes into play, where I find out your limits of self awareness or comprehension.

>>15759377
Listen and learn >>15759320

>>15759389
https://youtu.be/FnpsE1fQBuU

Love is for humans.

>>15759401
I get it but this >>15759320 is so much better

>>15759235
You think you see free will. How can you prove what you see is free will? Can you even define it?

>>15759419
I can move my toes and my fingers. Extremities. I can move extremities for no reason other than free will.

>>15759406
Stop talking about love, mortal-human, you know nothing of it beyond your selfish desires and manipulative schemes.

https://youtu.be/_58AnhnbIgI

>>15759423
Trees can move their branches to face the sun and absorb the most light for photosynthesis. Are you suggesting that trees are conscious beings with free will?

>>15759429
Not from your description.
>>15759428
Dude you're a dumb motherfucker. Listen instead of talking so much

>>15759438
>no u dumb
I will destroy any Psychologist on this planet, I seek them out and convert them. Your species (ALL OF HUMANITY) has almost zero concept of Love. Its BIOLOGY. Its Sceince, its not whatever bullshit propaganda addled retardation you FEEL it is.

Thats my job, to slay your gods....

>>15759442
Shut up and deal with the Shirelles >>15759320

>>15759438
Are you going to address my question or not? Are trees conscious beings? Do trees have thought? Do rocks have experiences?

>>15759453
LOOK AT THE RESULTS OF PLEASURE SEEKING LOVE.
>>>/gif/25908688
"Im in love when profiting from you and out of love when you stop profiting me."

>>15759458
Yeah probably. What's your argument that they don't?

>>15759463
>Rocks probably have experiences
Do you need brain help?

>>15759462
Go to bed you stupid whore.

>>15759464
https://youtu.be/mPcEjZ3__E0

Not a scientist? Yeah, I can tell...

>>15759464
What's a "rocks experience"

>>15759469
Bitch sleep please

>>15759470
You've clearly lost your fucking mind

>>15759469
>chronic 4chan larper

>>15759465
>whore
"Love when profitable."
Get behind me, Satan...[sigh] do tiresome...

>>15759472
You're an idiot. What's a rocks experience you fucking idiot.

>>15759472
>chronic 4chan larper
LITERALLY THE LEADING SCIENTIST WORKING ON COGNITION AND CONSCIOUSNESS AND YOU IGNORE IT.

...BECAUSE IT DESTEOYS YOUR RETARDED WORLD VIEW.

GO TO BED, DUMBFUCKS, YOU PEOPLE ARE ANTI-SCIENT POLITICAL ACTIVISTS.

>>15759475
you're a whore. fuck off

>>15759476
You tell me, chief, you're the one asserting that rocks and pingpong balls are capable of sentience and critical thought. Retard.

>>15759476
>What's a rocks experience you fucking idiot.
Youre just a bag of molecules reacting to the environment, you have no experience, youre just physics simulating a human.

>>15759478
>chronic 4chan larper part 2

>>15759481
I'm not. Maybe we agree. You're an idiot tho if you think what you said.

>>15759481
>entience and critical thought.
Keep moving that goak post.

One days you gunna be right.....but theyll give up before proving you wrong because you's aint gunna stop moving that post.

>>15759489
>chronic 4chan larper part 3
Opinion discarded.

>>15759484
Sure but you're more of an idiot for thinking a bag of molecules would do the same thing

>>15759485
Go to class, boy.

https://youtu.be/Pdve7N3e7gk

Three fields for a reason, one gets you people nowhere but certain.

>>15759493
Youre CLEARLY not a Biologist or any kind, you have the thinking of a sidewalk pedestrian hypothesising cosmology.

TV and your retarded friends beliefs are wrong...stop looking to your left and right for validation in your own ignorance

>>15759501
>>15759498
DO NOT DOUBLE POST IN MY THREAD LITTLE MAN

I HAVE SPOKEN

>>15759501
Tonight, the light of love is your eyes. But will you still love me tomorrow?

>>15759510
No.

I love what is beyond human capacity...and by proxy your god's perception of myself.

>>15758972
You are staring at a computer that is using its computing power and browser program to actively generate visualizations for you to look at right now, you nincompoop.

>>15758982
Then why are you reacting exactly like an angry narcissist would when their worldview was challenged?

>>15758928
Qualia is the ability to be part of experience. Rocks obviously have qualia. Don't believe me? Ask a friend to take a large bolder a smash the back of your head open with it. You will experience immense pain and likely experience death.

Schizoids on this site think that in order to be part of experience, you must also HAVE experiences. This would imply that your chair experiences pain when you sit on it, among other schizophrenic delusions.

Being unable to differentiate between "part of experience" and "has experience" is a hallmark of profound mental retardation and schizophrenic thinking.

>>15758928
No, you just mistake the fact that you can't come up with a reasonable definition for qualia that doesn't equally apply to rocks for the irrational conclusions that the person analyzing your definition believes in your ambiguous definition of qualia and its relationship to rocks.

>>15759098
>I have free will
If it were free, you could use your willpower alone to defy the limits of physics instead of being entirely bound by your limited ability to choose between various physical actions.

>>15759538
>If you're not omnipotent then you don't have free will
Tell me you know nothing about the philosophy of mind and concede, idiot

>>15759105
No your burden of proof is demonstrating that physical experience exists as something completely distinct from the physical acts, stimuli, impulses, and sensations themselves.

>>15759530
Qualia the term Philosphers use because theyre not Psychologist, Biologists or Physicists.

GO TO /his/ WITH YOUR "LOGIC THEORY".

>>15759235
Then why do you see yourself instead of someone else if your will is so free and you aren't actually just trapped being (You)?

>>15759100
This is what's at issue. You cannot prove that qualia exist using objective data, and therefore with science. It is a purely subjective phenomena. Materialists will slit their own wrists before they admit that truth can exist outside of the scientific framework, they'll even go so far as to deny something that is self-evidently true. It's not that they're NPC's, they're just incredibly pompous and insecure

>>15759375
Except you are the one who gives definitions of consciousness that applies to rocks as much as yourself.

>>15759423
Now twist each finger 360 degrees and move them into a tree three blocks away from your head. Oh your will is actually extremely limited and you can't freely do any of that, you are completely bound by the physical makeup of your body when moving your digits?

>>15759470
They rock and sometimes roll, if they are round enough.

>>15759543
If you are limited, you are by definition not free, if your will is dependent on your circumstances, it is explicitly bound in those experience rather than freely acting since the two concepts of limitation and freedom are antithetical.

Why "muh emergence from complexity" is unconvincing: The proponents of emergentism claim that qualia come naturally with a highly complex information processing architecture in the brain. However, most qualia are in fact the opposite of complex. Color vision for example takes only 8 bit to represent. Smell takes maybe 16 bit. This is very low information content. Even the simplest computing chips are more complex than that, yet nobody would claim them to experience qualia.

>>15759565
Do a 100 pullups right now and tell me how it feels. Oh that's right you can't because your physical body is bound by the (lack of) willpower you have when making choices

>>15759571
>Why "muh emergence from complexity" is unconvincing
>>15759498
>https://youtu.be/Pdve7N3e7gk

Because youre not a scientist and youre looking for emotional affirmations, not the Truth.

>>15759569
free will implies freedom to choose ones reactions to circumstances, not freedom to create those circumstances on your own

>>15759574
Do 85,000 pullups 10 minutes ago.
Oh right, you are extremely limited by physical circumstances and can't actually act freely upon any whim.

>>15759582
No, that is a description of a limited choice set.
Free will is the ability to act entirely within you own discretion, but it is not up to your discretion to act, it is up to many uncontrollable physical circumstances whether you can perform a particular act or not.

>>15759556
Because I'm me. Come on ask a better question.
>>15759565
>I can't fly so I don't have free will
What? Please do better.

>>15759581
Bitch go to bed.

>>15759588
No it's not. Literally nobody thinks that or has claimed that other than you for the purpose of arguing on 4chan

>>15759583
>magic not reawl
>Dat mean no God no soul onwy matter n machine
You have the mental maturity of a twelve year old

>>15759589
>Because I'm me
I know, I just said that is where you are trapped and always will be because you bound more by the fate that results from your form than any freedom of will to act independently of it.

>I can't fly
You can, but not freely, you can only choose to have your flight bound in one of a baker's dozen models of aircraft available to you.

>>15759581
I don't click youtube links. If the presented information was true it would have been censored by youtube. Provide a reliable source or shut up.

>>15759593
No, I am not the first to make this argument and its not only made on 4chan, you literally just use nonsensical emotionally driven definitions that make you feel special and in touch with some omnipotence myth you were lied to about as a child instead of understanding the actual meaning of the words you use.

>>15759595
>>magic not reawl
It never will be no matter how much will power you try to use to make it real because your will is not free, it is bound by your physical limitations, you can't freely choose your fate, you can only act out specific scenarios that fit your physical form.

>>15759601
GO TO CLASS.

https://facultyprofiles.tufts.edu/michael-levin-1/publications

>>15759595
he is literally a NPD psychotic

>>15759423
kek imagine bragging about being better than other because because of some superior freedom of will that is easily defeated with something as simple as a binding shoe or a finger box.

>>15759618
You can move your toes in a binding shoe, retard.

>>15759596
>I just said that is where you are trapped and always will be because you bound more by the fate that results from your form than any freedom of will to act independently of it.
Sounds like bullshit lol

>>15759611
>Ctrl+f qualia
>0 matches
Your link appears to be off topic. I didn't ask for "The Yin and Yang of Breast Cancer", Mr Levin.

>>15759624
qualia is for idiots. Tell me about the single quale you hate the most

>>15759624
QUALIA IS PHILOSPHY

TAKE YOUR PSEUDO SCIENCE TO /his/.

....there....I WILL CAPS LOCK YOU WITH STEM.

>>15759631
Go to bed you stupid girl lmao.

>>15759623
You are the one who admitted that you can only be you.

>>15759634
Sure, so?

>>15759630
You cannot hate or love a quale. Qualia do not determine value judgments.

>>15759631
Qualia are science, not philosophy. Philosophy is dead.

>>15759638
>qualia
>quale
seems like the difference is that "qualia" is retard language and "quale" maybe not so much?

>>15759642
You don't understand Latin.

>>15759636
So you are clearly experiencing cognitive dissonance while admitting you know you are trapped in there but also thinking it sounds like bullshit when the idea is expressed.

>>15759638
>Qualia are science
As a doctor, in both science and philosophy...No. Cognition is backend of consciousness, Psychology is front end, qualia is the personality (Ego, Id, Identity....what they see themselves as, not what they are).
https://youtu.be/jlV_d7NicKQ

Qualia is self delusion.

>>15759653
What you see yourself as, and what other people see you as (viz a viz their own qualia) is the only thing that actually matters. How is it this complicated to understand? You can use an objective metric to measure aspects of people's lives, but the only reason you are even motivated to do this in the first place is ultimately to change some qualia that they like or dislike. Reality as perceived through qualia is the only true reality. Everything else, math and science, etc. are an attempt to map qualia between multiple people using linguistic constructs

>>15759648
I can speak latin. You can't.
>>15759651
>So you are clearly a lobster
Fucking retard.

>>15759659
>What you see yourself as, and what other people see you as (viz a viz their own qualia) is the only thing that actually matters.
No, you and your friends can pretend you are a girl all you want to the point you actually see it, but you are never getting pregnant because your physical form trump your self-image.

>>15759659
This is also why religion and science don't commute, b/c science talks about the mapping of qualia between people, whereas religion talks about relationships between qualia within individuals

>>15759660
>I can speak Latin
Then why do you get filtered by a plural?

>>15759665
>filtered
maybe you'd be happier posting on reddit you stupid cunt.

>>15759663
Shut the fuck up dude. That kind of materialist thinking is what lead to trannies in the first place. Their problem is that they think the qualia of 'posess penis' and 'interact with world as female' can co-exist

>>15759659
>What you see yourself as, and what other people see you as (viz a viz their own qualia) is the only thing that actually matters.
Brave.
[snap]
Slay, yaaasssss.
...pure ego feeding self delusion prioritizing minor over major...
>How is it this complicated to understand?
Because youre not a Psychologist, Biologist or Physicist, youre a Philosopher operating in those fields.
>Reality as perceived through qualia is the only true reality.
"I believe I am a doctor, they call me a doctor, therefore I am a doctor."
-Fauci
>Everything else, math and science, etc. are an attempt to map qualia
Where is qualia in cellular Cognition? Molecular Cognition? Base Physics?

Your approach to consciousness is *very* 19th century fundementalist Christian..

>>15759674
>they think the qualia
>>15759665
Do you get it yet?

>>15759675
I'm a physical scientist with an interest in philosophy. Biology is barely even a science unless you'd call a bunch of chinks rote memorizing protein pathways 'science'

>>15759681
>physical scientist
lol Post thesis title and what you work on today.

We'll get to the bottom of this, I PROMISE.

>>15759675
>Where is qualia in cellular Cognition? Molecular Cognition? Base Physics?
are you seriously this stupid? The qualia are the sensory experiences involved in using instrumentation and observing the external, physical world

>>15759687
>the qualia
the whole thread is literal retards or first year philosophy students. I keep throwing up in my mouth.

>>15759684
>post thesis so I can dox you
No. You can ask anything that doesn't involve personal details

>>15759689
He will just throw that poor midwit he is always trying to impersonate by posting all his obscure materials under the bus.

>>15759687
>are you seriously this stupid?
WHY ARE YOY RETADED?

>>15759469

GO TO CLASS, FLUNKY.

>>15759689
>physical scientist
YOURE NOT A PHYSICIST.
>>15759692
YOURE NOT A PSYCHOLOGIST.

>>15759694
Everyone on the internet is a psychologist which is exactly why you can get away with calling yourself one.

>>15759703
Anon, I meet with people of every branch of sceince or field of research I can, I spend thousands upon thousands of hours in lectures for years and years. I read books and papers on various STEM subjects. I travel the world researching things not written in books because the work I do hasnt been done before in human history.

Im more than willing to drag this thread into an auditorium of doctors...I will destroy them, an you, in the same stroke.

>>15759710
Yea, we all do all of that, that is why we have time to shitpost for 16 hours a day every day for months on end just like you.

>>15759710
Sure but meeting with every branch of psychology is like trying to suck own dick in every branch of neck poses.

>>15759714
>we all do all of that
STOP LYING, PSEUDO-STUDENT.
>just like you
You realize you can attend lectures and shitpost at the same time, right? You can listen to lectures at the gym. I can be a thousand miles from a cell tower and be listening to a lecture posted a week ago.

Thats why I do so much, I live multiple lives simultaneously.

>>15759716
Sure but if all your lives are a deep throat for some unsatisfied psych prof who cares?

>>15759716
I know I agreed, its why I just said that is what we all do and that is why we all do the exact same thing as you so that you can be some of our many many lives.

>>15759715
>branch of psychology
There is only one, the rest are specialists or pseudo-sciences.

No, I mean like meeting Mathematical Biologist, Physicists, Mathematicians, Genetcisits, and yes...Psychologists, and relating ALL OF THEIR KNOWLEDGE intoa coherent theory of everything.

>>15759498
>https://youtu.be/Pdve7N3e7gk
THREE BRANCHES IN ONE.

He is multi-disciplinary, I am a Polymath, the difference is he extends into adjacent fields, I extend into ALL fields.

Is qualia internal or external or both? Isn't it then that consciousness is actually a multi-faceted thing that's abstracted or thought of from wrong entry. Consciousness is the window of opportunity for things like qualia to occur but I'm suggesting qualia is just part of the I and You matrix.

>>15759716
>decades of class and he still attends undergrad lectures because he hasn't even graduated

>>15759722
>tower of babel
Coherent theory of everything is cool when you're 8 maybe

>>15759727
"The wind has nothing to do with the sun."
Youre a crab of humanity and chop down anything better than yourself.

Does....pol call those kinds of people something?

>>15759724
>undergrad lectures
Half the students were professors....youre not a doctor, youre not a professor, youre not even a student, youre a charlatans on the internet.

https://semf.org.es/school2023/

>>15759732
>tower of babel
>wind and sun
You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you lol

>>15759734
Theory of Everything is the opposite of Tower of Babel, you fucking retard.

ITS REDUCTIONISM. The fundemental property of EQUATIONS. Reducing reality into symbols and math....

YOU AINT A PHYSICT, YOU'S A LIAR.

>>15759732
>youre a charlatans on the internet.
Oh dang, I will have to look into that, maybe you are right, so tell us more about how you have met every smart person alive because you have multiple concurrent lives.

>>15759735
Tower of Babel is big bullshit. So is psychology. Good luck lol.

>>15759736
>tell us more about how you have met every smart person alive because you have multiple concurrent lives
I talk to the clouds...and they tell me secrets of humanity.

>>>/his/15637229

When my quest for answers led me to beyond human understanding of reality I must seek something beyond human.

Pick a field, pick a subject, I will turn it into BioPhysics.

>>15759737
>Tower of Babel is big bullshit
Its the infinite specificity of measuring the human experience. An infinite number of ways of measuring reality (or God). The opposite of reductionism.

Ergo, its akin to measuring reality by cataloging every combination of atoms possible in reality instead what those atoms are made of. Infinite number of molecules...which is correct, but infinite in scope.

Thus the tower would never be completed.

>>15759739
French lit. Tell me about Valery

>>15759742
Never completed always attempted tho (still now)

>>15759745
>Valery
"his interests included aphorisms on art"
>Aphorisms
"denoting 'delimitation', 'distinction', and 'definition') is a concise, terse, laconic, or memorable expression of a general truth or principle."
Truth is what all of your Biology agrees upon, where in most people internally suppress parts of their Physiology to maintain a single and coherent line of truth from one subject to the next.

This is why some people cannot see the Truth when its shoved in their face, their BioElectric signalling is suppressed internally, they cannot see Truth because theyre designed to not see it.

>French
The America before America, that was set up to allow for full truth in the era before the US. Those that cannot see the Truth hate them because of their freedom. Now they say that about the US.
>lit
All mythos and abstract literature is an expression of the human experience, speaking from emotions and not rational definitions, as it is impossible to accurately define even the simple of emotions without needing a Tower of Babel number of alternate definitions.

Emotional qualia's definitions of reality are infinite and a Tower.

>>15759749
>Never completed always attempted
Yes, not all people are designed to even be able to see universality, and this is an aspect of evolution to protect itself from an incorrect direction of evolution.

Same for this penguin. He is designed to walk towards the mountains. For millions of years he will walk to his death, but only a few do. But one day...the sea will become toxic and the mountains will thaw...and he will survive when the others didnt.

Its sad to know...some are built to suicide in normal circumstances...but that is a part of natures design.

Having said all of that, its not for nothing. There are times where this type of person makes insight discoveries that alter their field, its just "usually" a dead end. I always keep an ear open for them, I just usually dont seek them out.

>>15759757
>Emotional qualia's definitions of reality are infinite and a Tower.
What is love?

https://youtu.be/iQWXHIk5X-k

>>15759773
>What is love?
Trick question! Its a miserable pile of secrets.

Thats why he spoke in parables (poetry).

>>15759776
>he spoke in parables
Because speaking equations to illiterate peasants is impossible.

Love, and Hate, are positive, attracting, emotions. Your BioElectric extends outside of your body as BioMagnetics, its what keeps species coherent in evolutionary directions and why the species isnt 8 billion seperate species.

>>15758928
>Materialists think absurd things like "rocks can have experiences."
Immaterialists dont operate in reality.

They operate where your ignorance begins...so have your knowledge extend to infinity...and give them no quarter in this universe.

A Pentagon is a 2D Geometric expression of Phi (Phi-ve, Fi-ve).

A Dodecahedron is 2.5D.

A Torus is a 3D Pentagon.

>>15759784
No it's not. It's 4D.

>>15759785
combo breaker

>>15759784
A torus is 4D. It accounts for natural rotation (post: zoom, transmit, etc )

>>15759784
And a Doca is 3D.

All these funky topology has turned you dim. I mean, 2.5D shapes? Are you retarded.

We're gonna need more time to work out this question.

Is cult of Passion a retard.

>>15759785
>No it's not. It's 4D.
I wasnt asking, Barkun, Hyper (and Sub) Dimensional Geomtry is my specialty. Dodecahedron is 2.5D, its still 2D planes arranges in 3D.

>>15759787
>It accounts for natural rotation (post: zoom, transmit, etc )
There is no reason why you cannot say the same about a Dodecahedron.

Its infinitely hyperbolic linear measure of Phi, thats what happens when you force a uni-dimensional object in hyperdimension, they become hyperbolic on an axis, it looks 4D but its 3.

>>15759791
A doca doesn't have natural rotation. You would have to force it. 4D IMPLIES rotation. No such thing as 2.5D shapes.

>>15759790
>I mean, 2.5D shapes? Are you retarded.
I invented a 1.5 dimensional base system. Half dimensions are pretty interesting and difficult to wrap your head around but are just as valid.
>Doca is 3D.
Point to the 2D plane in reality...I'll wait.
>We're gonna need more time to work out this question.
Because Math dimensions and Physics dimensions are offcentered by one.

This always causes me a bit of issues because of that, that math and physics' defninitions are slightly off, and I generally use math's.

>>15759791
I don't care how much crackademic lectures you've had. You're retarded if you cannot change you view now.

>>15759793
>4D IMPLIES rotation.
Infinite, yes, as in ALL rotations. Hence why it no longer has a Pentagonal shape, its all overlapped.

In Physics that would be called 5th.

>>15759797
The Sun is a 6D star shape. A 5D star shape is more like an advanced nexus. You have the right mind about 5D but you fail at defining it.

>>15759804
Think about what zoom effect the Sun has. How zoom is in 4D(it's dimensional birth) and then think about a 5D star shape. Then maybe move on to 7 or 8D

>>15759804
>The Sun is a 6D star shape.
Mmm, no, I still measure it in 3D space, the fact I need "extra dimensions" to define everything else is a failure of definitions of measuring. This is why String Theory or whatever has so many dimensions, simply need matrices for the math, not because there is alternated realities.
>right mind about 5D but you fail at defining it.
A 5th Dimensional object is all places at all times and in all states, it would all of the universe. Coming, going, rotating, counter rotating, all simultaneously.

I describe it as chess, where all pieces are in all places at the same time, playing it is figuring out how to arrange the game from completed to finished step by step.

Higher dimensional chess gets really hard to describe...the game starts in checkmate, and at 9th dimension the math said there was an extra piece on the board. I still think about it.

>>15759809
6D is natural frequency, are you saying the Sun isn't this?

>>15759812
>6D is natural frequency
wut?
Frequency is a unidimensional measure! A binary measure of a single metric, simply adding more measures doesnt make it more in reality, youre just measuring what it is with greater accuracy.

Here we have a Pentagon, Hexagon and Octagon in clouds, they exists because of harmonics in the atmosphere. All these expressions exist in all of reality but are expressed in specificity under specific conditions. They still operate in 3D, we just use high dimensions of math to incorporate them at the same time.

>>15759816
Ok.jpg

>>15759812
Fracton measures of gravity and starfish crystal structures. Both contain similar geomtry...and since one is a biological organism, thus this geomtry exists in you as well.

>>15758928
>Materialists
Pah...he knows not what he does.

This is why religions often pick geometric shapes as symbols, its a specific frequency of human expression they have an affinity towards; >>15759757

But not all can see the other shapes; >>15759763

>>15759819
>This is why religions often pick geometric shapes as symbols
The attempt to be what cannot truly exist in our universe, a perfection beyond the 3D reality...because they also inherently contain other shapes.

>>15759824
This is why Prophets are different than other people, they are the biological extremes of these shapes. With that "perfection" comes the anti-perfection of excluding the other shapes.

Them being "the most universal shape" is of course the goal but that isnt always what is needed or desired. If everyone was Jesus we would all be dead because the mosquitoes required our blood.

>>15759826
>If everyone was Jesus we would all be dead
And attempting to be a Prophet is a form of Idolatry, as you are not a biological extreme and will have to consciously suppress your "other shapes", which would be a self lie; >>15759757
>Truth is what all of your Biology agrees upon
You cannot "choose" to be chosen, they simply cannot choose to be anything else. Those that try live a lie.

>>15759829
>they simply cannot choose to be anything else
In this regard...Prophets are something to have a sort of sympathy for, not necessarily something to aspire to be. A reference point of the extreme to allow for you to evaluate your position as either extreme or reasonable.

Its the same as teens pretending to be mentally ill for sympathy or uniqueness. Self deception thats used to manipulate others, the wolf in priest's clothing.

>>15759819
>>15759824
>>15759826
>>15759829
>>15759844
STOP SPAMMING MY THREAD BOY

I HAVE SPOKEN

>>15760218
>What is it about reality that makes immaterialists piss and shit their pants?
Truth isnt the ignorance you "belief" others have.

You simply failed to stop being ignorant yourself...

The true splendor of reality is captured neither in dualist nor materialist philosophy. Only the euphoric few can truly grasp its greatness.

there's damage in going beyond what is, just because it sounds and feels better. that position is not "elevated", it's literally retarded. it's painting your lips with radium just because it's nicer and it glows and shit.

>>15760246
>giving yourself cancer means rocks are conscious beings
Wow.

>>15760253
no, it's the fact that your religious authorities got you hooked on fentanyl because why the fuck not, junkies will support their dealer, and it feels better than whatever the shit life you had before. why not?
problem is, when that fentanyl is taken away from you you start melting down and wrecking shit because fentanyl feels better than no fentanyl.
what you think is that there's nothing wrong with fentanyl in someone's life. that's drug corporate empire motto. sold to you spiritually as well.
fucking junkies is what you are, there can be no discussion with you as there's no objective bone in you. you may try to pose as one, but everyone can see your junkie face, they know what's up. you cannot control yourself.

>>15760253
Jesus....why do you choose to be retarded? Conscious doesnt mean orders nacho cheese burritos from taco bell with you. I wouldnt consider you to be "conscious", youre bag of reactionary molecules, nothing more. Youre a rock LARPing as a human.

Your perception of reality is sick, you need a doctor or a beating.

>>15760265
>physical dependence on fentanyl proves the consciousness of rocks
Buddy you're clearly insane. Seek medical attention pronto. Fentanyl causes internalization of MOR by b-arrestin which will also signal an opioidergic neuron to stop expressing MOR. This lack of stimuli at a previously active receptor causes withdrawal symptoms. The addiction aspect of it relies on the network hijacking between the ventral tegmental area and the prefrontal cortex, causing fentanyl and other opioids to rank higher than any other reward-based need.

You got all that?

If not, you belong in the "bad thinkers" pile then idiot.

>>15760271
>Jesus....why do you ch
Yeah I stopped reading about right there. I try to refrain from dialoging with mental patients.

>>15759681
Biology is the most important science. Cope pseud.

>>15760299
"haha no u r"

Kill yourself....FOR JESUS.

>>15760218
Shut the fuck up and kill yourself you worthless dimwit. Your nonsense pseudointellectualism is a net negative on humanity by wasting the time of actual intellectuals. Do the world a favor and off yourself.

>>15760299
Oh...and get the fuck off my board you anti-science degenerate.

This place needs to push out these anti-science thread posters...ALL OF THEM. Go to /his/ to push your philosophical propaganda.

>>15760297
I am saying that your soul/free will bullshit sold to you by your corporate religious leaders are the equivalent of getting hooked on fentanyl, you are never ever going to let that shit go, as retarded as it seems, as crazy as it might make you look, and as no bit of logical and scientifical sense it might make.
that is what you will defend, your fentanyl, even if you come across as a braindead chimp.

>>15760306
>>15760305
>>15760308
lmao dumb woman

>>15760316
WHY DO YOU CHOOSE TO BE RETARDED?

Go to /his/ to push your cultist political activism.
(When you go there I will bring STEM and Reality with me...I will give you no quarter on with website.)

>>15760316
I'm from when this retarded offtopic shitpost of thread was a few hours old, you worthless coping retard.

>>15760320
Cult of Passion
>>/x/

They accept your academic abstract hypocrisy there

>>15760325
>academic abstract hypocrisy
Get a PhD and then we can talk, kiddo...until then...stop LARPing as a professor.

We're not peers and I have none to begin with.

>>15760325
>t. Posting so anon sides with CoP to make it easier to out debate you and catch you by surprise. This is reverse psychology. I will ignore his reply

>>15759147
The brain actually works more like 0's and 1's than like an analog computer, as shown by action potentials of neurons having a single on and a single off state

>>15760328
>>15760327
>>15760325
>Schizophrenic ramblings from the same person who uses a username on an anonymous imageboard
Sad! Many such cases!

>>15760344
>nuh-uh, laptops have audio card so my macbook is analog computer

>>15760345
>ramblings
Im sorry youre filtered by basic reality...then why are you posting on the reality board?

What is was your thesis on?
What is your field of expertise?
>wont answer, only will talk about me, someone they dont know yet pretends to, will only LARP, live a LIE, project DELUSION

>>15759160
Prove to me that you're alive and not just an NPC.

>>15760367
>I always talk about myself so you have to talk about yourself
>be as detailed as possible
I put my shades on geez.

>>15760371
He's not a fed, he's a 2nd year undergrad who thinks he has the world figured out because his Psychology 105 professor said "Good Job!" on his term paper.

>>15760368
I am responding to you. Can dirt respond? Is dirt alive? Can the moon respond to you? Is the moon alive? Are sticks conscious beings who can ponder reality?

>>15760371
>I always talk about myself
Oh?
>>15759151
>youre
>>15759164
>You
>>15759179
>You
I help the blind and retarded...what do you do?
>>15760380
>He's
>he's
>he
>his
>his
...

>>15760387
Seems like something an NPC would say

>>15760390
>>15759164
>You
Lol...fucking LARPers...have to double check the posts.

>>15758972
the sad thing is that the real NPCs are the ones who insist on misunderstanding this. an NPC can't understand nuance or difference in perspective, and can't fathom that some people think more or less with sounds, images & even abstract feelings.

>>15760368
That's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what I am.
All that matters I the proof that you, and many before you, have failed to provide. Every physicalist, scientist, atheist, materialist, communist, scientologist, and psychologist would unanimously accept the existence of qualia if you arm-chair hypothesizors actually proved it exists.

>>15760442
>prove to a robot that you have a quality they do not and cannot comprehend
lol

>>15760463
>I totally comprehend it so hard, I just don't care to explain it, that's all, trust me

>>15760463
>have a quality they do not and cannot comprehend
isn't this what it's all actually about? I mean the ability to control and deny people shit?
>you have a souls and it's great, but you go to hell if you don't do as I say.
power games framework, has nothing to do with sanctity

>>15760467
I experience it and am "it." You'll never be able to grasp this because you are a lesser life form. Less than human. What else is there to say? You believe you can be something, but can you even define the word "be?" What does the word "the" mean?

Dumbass materialists split hairs with semantics because they can't comprehend being on the same mental level as a shrub or a pile of rocks.

>Explain something I have no possible way of experiencing, not even in the abstract sense
>Explain to a deterministic machine that there are actually no bounds and choices are sometimes made irrationally

Turn your brain on!

>>15760486
You are talking to a meat GPT. It doesn't comprehend and thus your arguments make no sense to it, thereby demonstrating your point exactly, but in a way that is impossible for the meat GPT to process and acknowledge. lol

>>15760442
So you can't provide proof that you're alive? Clearly that means you're a bot then right?

>>15760473
>angry about dualist philosophy because i had a bad experience in church when i was a kid

>>15759223
You are compoaed of inanimate objects, retard

>>15760523
>I am the same thing as a desk or a ceiling joist or wall clock, all of which are conscious beings

>>15760520
>Yet another bad faith argument by the mentally deranged

>>15760463
>>15760512
It doesn't matter what I am. You can't avoid the obvious fact that you haven't provided a proof, by attempting to change the subject.

>>15760528
>I am the same thing as a desk or a ceiling joist or wall clock
Yes? You just have more complexity and process more information which gives rise to experience.

>>15760532
>You just have more complexity and process more information which gives rise to experience.
Sure, and at what point does this level of complexity cross the threshold for consciousness? Is Times Square conscious because it is full of interconnected complex wiring complete with displays, sensors, and various data collection tools? Why don't you go and debate the theory of mind while shouting at the scrolling stock ticker on Broadway and tell me about material complexity, idiotboy.

Ethically speaking, since we're forced to rely on a subjective reports to confirm internal experience and various """materialists""" ITT react with utter incredulity when asked about theirs, would it be "wrong" to kill said "people"? After all, they are (scientifically-speaking) nonsentient objects. Food for thought.

>>15760547
Most "people" aren't actually people.

>>15760547
what do you mean, materialists consider themselves nonsentient? or are you forcing that on them so you can position yourself higher?
faggot
> they are (scientifically-speaking) nonsentient objects
nope, zealots say that, not science.

>>15760538
>and at what point does this level of complexity cross the threshold for consciousness
On the quantum level, of course, all physical interactions are ultimately the same thing, it is only the degree of complexity which dictates how experience manifests

>>15760551
>what do you mean
I mean when you ask them to confirm that they experience qualia, they start screeching that you can't prove that you do, effectively stating that they don't know what you're talking about and don't believe that you do, either. They have no qualia, as far as empirical science is concerned. They're not sentient. Why is it bad to "kill" them?

>>15760562
>if they don't recognize this concept I pulled out of my ass I'll just say they don't have it anyway and are worthless.
you have a piece of shit arguing style and argument. you are predictably retarded and insane based on the way your reason out reality.

>>15760562
even namefags make some sense as compared to you

>>15760566
>>15760568
I don't understand why you're getting angry. Internal experience entails qualia. We judge the presence of internal experience by asking people about their qualia. If someone acts completely puzzled when you ask them about their qualia, they clearly lack internal experience. If so, why is it bad to kill them? They can't experience suffering or pain.

>>15760572
You haven't proven shit. You didn't prove that you have qualia and you didn't prove anything doesn't have qualia.
Cope all you like, but this is fact.

>>15760572
>qualia
this is not about not having internal experience, this is about what that particular word trojans in. in your reply you try to sell it as this little simple innocuous thing, when we know the kind of bullshit hides behind it.

>>15760577
>You haven't proven shit. You didn't prove that you have qualia
See? "People" like this. Why is it wrong to kill them? He is completely baffled by the concept of internal experiences. The scientific standard in this domain is self-report. His self-report is "what the fuck are you talking about?". He's not sentient.

That RD they removed the Wingate was way less than another one that I had in my asshole for about year until it was finally removed in December 2021. The next day they said Bogdanoff died, and I think he helped me out there.

>>15760578
>this is not about not having internal experience
Qualia and internal experience mean the same thing. Do you experience qualia?

>>15760580
>internal experiences
listen you piece of shit, stop mixing up these concepts. your qualia bullshit is actually spiritual faggotry in disguise, internal experience does not imply your bullshit souls

Qualia don't exist. For example consider a man who says "my taste has changed". Can we distinguish whether his qualia have changed and his value judgments remained the same or his value judgments have changed and his qualia remained the same? We can't. Therefore qualia are wrong.

>>15760583
>Qualia
I refuse using your concept word but yeah there's shit happening inside my brain.

>>15760588
Qualia and internal experience mean the same thing. Do you experience qualia or is it morally ok for me to kill you?

>>15760592
Ok. Thanks for confirming that it's okay to "kill" you, if such a word even applies to objects. Hopefully we can start cleaning up humanity soon.

>>15760593
>Qualia and internal experience mean the same thing
no they don't faggot. not only has qualia way more bullshit attached, it is a religious framework for weak people.

>>15760486
>You'll never be able to grasp this
So we are on the same level since you clearly can't explain what it is and keep having to fall on platitudes and ad hominem.

>can you even define the word "be?
Never said that, but be means to exist which means to be a measurable part of physical reality.

>What does the word "the" mean?
It is a definite article that means you are referring to a specific object.

>split hairs with semantics; on the same mental level as a shrub or a pile of rocks.
Except you are the one over here trying make it seem like the definition of the word be and the are some indeterminable thing because the only explanations you can give for your superstitious jargon applies to shrubs and rocks just as much as yourself, so you have to attack the very concept of language to feel vindicated.

Read a book some time they are filled with abstract and imaginary experiences explained by writers who actually have a grasp on what they are talking about and emotions they want to communicate, admitting that you only choose to believe in this nonsense because you have a tendency to make irrational choices doesn't really help your case or add anything, nobody said you couldn't be irrational, in fact, the people saying you have a penchant for claiming you experience something you can't even define is precisely declaring your unreasonability and irrational arguments.

>>15760580
Butt blasted that you haven't proven anything? Gonna shit and piss yourself because you can't handle reality?

>>15760594
the only thing you are killing is yourself when science proves your shit souls are fake.

>>15760538
>Times Square
Times Square isn't all one body entirely controlled by a central brain.

>>15760595
>>15760598
>>15760599
>it's ok to "kill" me
Thanks for confirming.

>>15760599
>science proves your shit souls are fake.
>>15760599

>>15760603
you're just proving my earlier point you moron. you are doing a disservice to the soulhaving cult.

>>15760547
Except you are the one acting with utter incredulity when someone asks you to actually explain this magic word that makes you better than everything else with coherent definitions instead of simply invoking it and expecting to be treated like some kind of deity.

>>15760551
>materialists consider themselves nonsentient?
No, they consider sentience to be just some kind of material phenomenon and physical reaction rather than some magical otherworldly thing that is somehow superior to what everything else experiences.

>>15760603
lol. You're so mad you can't prove anything! You're so asshurt that youre revealing that you're actually just a retarded nazi that's so worthless and meaningless that you're making up fairytale bullshit to cope.
Pathetic!

>>15760609
>they consider sentience to be just some kind of material phenomenon
I fully agree with that while at the same time adding that we don't really fucking know what else is there, how exactly does consciousness arise from matter, there's quite a bit more to find out and we may still yet have surprises, as argument for magic enjoyers. I'm not completely discarding weird shit, I'm particularly saying that cultists have no place in science if we are to really discover more about our nature.

>>15760606
>>15760607
>>15760611
Do you have an internal experience that can't be measured externally, or only the neurological correlates of that internal experience?

>>15760613
>consciousness arise
I think that word is attached with a bunch of bullshit too, I get things like environmental awareness, pattern recognition, memory, critical analysis, imagination (and while they are all human qualities I don't know that they are all the same thing), but the word consciousness is still too vague and leaves too much room for woowoo, so is prone to abuse which you can see since the people relating consciousness to qualia seem to imply it means internal experience when the root is actually related shared knowledge. so people generally interpret it ass backwards now and its no longer a very useful term.

>discarding weird shit
We don't need to discard that shit all all, we need to discover more of it, what we do need to discard is imprecise jargon and vague catchall terms that don't really mean anything and can't really be investigated.

Uhm, eliminativism bros? How do we refute this?

>>15760619
You are describing imagination.

>>15758928
1. It's difficult to square qualia with "materialism" or "physicalism"
2. These creatures may genuinely not have qualia like real people do.

>>15760630
I'm not an eliminativist but the implications of your pic are still retarded. "Is my blue the same as your blue" etc. are kiddie musings that make the trivial error of assuming that the comparison is coherent when there's no common point of reference.

>>15759100
This is an actual NPC holy shit

>>15760631
Notice how you failed to answer the question. I'll make it even simpler for you: is there anything to your internal experience besides externally mesurable neurological correlates?

>>15760619
>Do you have an internal experience that can't be measured externally
How's about you try to figure out a way to measure it externally, instead of just assuming its impossible? Being able to actually measure a thing would be infinitely more convincing than "trust me bro".
Real repeatable measurements would actually clear things up, and possibly cease the whole debate.

>>15760640
Notice how you failed to answer the question. I'll make it even simpler for you: is there anything to your internal experience besides externally mesurable neurological correlates? If your reply with anything except 'yes', you are giving people a moral license to do whatever they want with your body.

>>15760629
>but the word consciousness is still too vague
yes that too

>>15760643
That's not how morality works.

>>15760630
The imaginary components and the internal coding of the neural measurements in whatever manner the neural network converted physical sensation into patterns of signals and harmonics that can used for intercellular communication and measured with electrodes.

>>15760629
> the word consciousness is still too vague
No it isn't. Anyone who is conscious knows exactly what the word means. That you think it's vague suggests you aren't conscious.

>>15760651
meant for
>>15760639

>>15760630
I just meant to say competing neural networks.

>>15760649
Morality only applies to those that have an internal experience. Since you repeatedly confirm that your "experience" is limited to external neurological correlates, you are an object and killing you is moral, legal, rational, practical, necessary and hopefully coming soon.

>>15760643
Notice how you haven't proven the existence of qualia. You haven't proven that you have qualia, and you haven't proven anything doesn't have qualia.

>>15760651
>i'm a mindless automaton and it's okay to kill me
I agree. Soon. People are tired of everything your worldview entails.

>>15760652
>That you think it's vague suggests you aren't conscious.
That you have to use ad hominem instead of just providing a clear complete definition suggests you are just fallacious.
If you knew exactly what it meant, you could explain exactly what it meant.

>>15760656
I know you're programmed for arguing, but real people are not bound by your primitive program logic. They don't need to argue with you. They can simply trash you until you stop making your degenerate anti-human noises.

>>15760652
>Anyone who is conscious knows exactly what the word means
"thinks" he knows what you mean, does not have clear boundaries. hence you will shove more in, others less, whatever you find convenient for your setup.
hence the need to get clear boundaries. I specifically know in corrupt countries laws are especially vague so they can be interpreted case by case and used as needed for any purpose, legit or corrupt.
whenever I see this mechanism all bulbs light up, there's fucking corruption in that for sure.

>>15760659
Except I just described how a mind works, by encoding sensation into measurable biological networks of neurons with coding schemes that are not completely understood.

>>15760655
>Morality only applies to those that have an internal experience.
Not necessarily. There's no real reason people can't moralize over, like, rocks. Morality is illogical and irrational nonsense based on emotional intuition; it has no empirical, scientific, logical, rational, or otherwise deductible grounding. You can go rape and eat people if you want; that's not contrary to reason.
>Since you repeatedly confirm that your "experience" is limited to external neurological correlates
Not him. I do think that killing such a thing would be morally indistinguishable from killing Skyrim NPCs, but I'm not all that opposed to killing actual conscious people either.

>>15760665
Neuro"""science""" is widely known to be a scam. Your golem priests can't even decode a simple manmade microprocessor using their "cutting-edge" methodologies.

>>15760663
>I can't explain myself and that is how I know I am correct.

>>15760659
>I agree. Soon. People are tired of everything your worldview entails.
nah, it seems you and a few freaks feel your worldview crumbling to pieces and default to chimp behavior and ideas because you usually are retarded chimps. you act on impulse, you are the literal soul-not-having determined drone. each and every fucking time lol

>>15760660
You're not conscious, so you're simply unable to understand what "consciousness" entails. If such a thing existed within your monkey body, you'd know what other people meant when they used the word.

>>15760666
See >>15760663. The beautiful thing is that there's nearly perfect intersection between sentience deniers like you and child rapists, anti-natalists, feminists, bugchasing homos, third world immigration shills etc. If political degenerates were killed tomorrow, suddenly there would be no one left arguing your anti-sentience position. lol

>>15760668
Its too bad, it was pretty cool when microprocessors existed,since they used to let anyone engage in global communication instantly, even retarded liars could get in on the action.

>>15760669
>>15760670
See >>15760672. Your anti-human agenda is coming to an end soon. Your views will be physically erased and thus proven wrong in the most powerful way nature has to offer.

>>15760664
>does not have clear boundaries
The boundaries are pretty clear. I have an internal subjective experience; that's being conscious. You don't, you don't have an internal subjective experience, so you're not conscious. Kinda like rocks.

>>15760672
I've never argued "against sentience".

>>15760680
Tick-tock. Tick-tock. The final and conclusive refutation of "your" views is nearing. :^)

>>15760677
no it's not bound by anything by definition. also you are not like fucking ever arguing in good faith.
soul having maggots are the most corrupt forms of life to ever exist.

>>15760671
>simply unable to understand
How am I to understand what you are talking about when your only explanation is that it is something you can't even describe?

I gave a bunch of different qualities >>15760629 that I think you are referring to when you use the vague catch all term from ancient mythology, but you can't even define consciousness in any coherent manner since you are specifically trying to imply it is some otherworldly deity portion of yourself that is beyond material analysis.

>>15760671
>>15760672
>>15760676
>>15760676
lol. Funny how you can't prove anything regarding consciousness and qualia, so you get ass-hurt and resort to Jewish 'holier-than-thou' behavior. You are a mindless automata yourself, and you haven't proven otherwise.

>>15760682
I'm not that guy you've been talking to, retard.

>>15760684
>no it's not bound by anything by definition
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consciousness

>>15760672
>If I killed everyone who didn't agree with me, everyone would agree with me
That doesn't mean you aren't retarded, its just means you are prone to the same tard rage as every other violent tard who can't express themselves and fault others for their low verbal IQ.

>>15760685
Consciousness is the state of having an internal subjective experience; qualia. That definition is incoherent if you don't have an internal subjective experience, but quite understandable to anyone else who does have such a thing.

>>15760688
>>15760689
>>15760692
If nature culls your views, your views are as wrong as anything can be. Sorry.

>>15760692
>>If I killed everyone who didn't agree with me, everyone would agree with me
this is unironically what zealots did across history lol. that's the whole point of this discussion lmao.

>>15760696
Nothing wrong with that.

>>15760696
The only problem with your "point" is that you are the zealot, thus your views will not recur after you get culled.

>>15760677
>You don't, you don't have an internal subjective experience
Again, you aren't arguing in good faith, nobody says they don't have internal subjective experience, several people have argued that point over and over, its just that those experiences are not immaterial, they are physical reactions and biological sense storage that are measurable but not yet completely understood since it involves hundreds of billions of very fragile biological units with hundreds of trillions of even more fragile connections with each other that are all configured a bit differently from body to body.

>>15760695
Except it hasn't culled anything, neural net theory is stronger than ever and being studied and implemented in more diverse and imaginative ways than ever while your woowoo otherwordly nonsense has been intellectually stagnate for decades.

>>15760698
apart from the fact that it seems that you have to kill literally anyone asking any kind of question about your "idea" of what we are, so your "idea" has any kind of chance of being accepted.
that in itself is saying just how real your "idea" is, or better yet how corrupt.
you are literally stealing people's "souls" and keep them captive for life doing your bidding, or else.
free will everybody...

>>15760706
>i have an internal experience but it's """physical"""
Show us, then. Reminder that neurological correlates are not an internal experience.

>>15760696
No they didn't, they only killed so many people before they died themselves, usually quite violently, but never actually vanquishing everyone who didn't agree.

>>15760712
Your insane anti-human dogma would be extinct in a few generations even without the overt violence you are inviting against yourself from literally every other group on the planet. Nature culls your worldview therefore it's wrong.

>>15760706
>nobody says they don't have internal subjective experience,
>>15759100
I dunno this guy seems to deny them.

>its just that those experiences are not immaterial
Define "material" and "immaterial".

> they are physical reactions and biological sense storage
Those are correlates, not the same thing as the experiences, which have a subjective, private character. That you think experience can be equated with these mere movements of matter suggests you don't actually have experience; otherwise you would see the error in identifying one with the other.

>that are measurable
Qualia has never been measured externally. It is impossible to do so.

>>15760720
>Nature culls your worldview therefore it's wrong.
that implies you think whatever you can get away with is the natural right thing, morally speaking, which implies so many deranged shit. the philosophy of some of you freaks...

>>15760726
No. It implies that self-erasing views are inherently invalid.

>>15760716
We don't yet have the computing power for hundreds of billions of neurons with hundreds of trillions of connections, but there has been very impressive applications with current models that only have 1/3500 of the neurons in an actual brain.

>neurological correlates are not an internal experience
You think neurons are outside of your brain and body, what kind of nonsense is that? The internal subjectification is accomplished through the unique coding schema of your internal cellular network.

>>15760720
Yea sure it will be extinct in just 2 more weeks when jesus comes back and your stagnating dogma comes back in full force as he divides families and turns plowshares into swords.

>>15760729
it literally implies that you abuse philosophy and religion to justify the fucked up weaknesses you have. and people like you always did, and always will. you need philosophy, for this specifically. isn't it?

>>15760732
Ok. I see. This is a literal bot. Old tech, too. GPT-4 produces more believable, if not entirely coherent, output.

>>15760737
No one needs to justify anything. Your views are self-culling therefore they will be erased by nature. It's a purely descriptive, rather than prescriptive, statement.

>>15760732
Experience=/=Neurons

>>15760743
nobody is responsible for the shit that happened to you bro. stop projecting it on the world.

>>15760746
>Experience
is emergent property of matter. weird shit but real.

>>15760753
Prove it. Explain how and why.

>>15760723
Do he didn't deny anything and said he was gladly waiting for any shred of proof from people who can't even provide a coherent definition that can be investigated.

>material
Something based in physical matter.
>immaterial
Nonphysical phenomenon outside the bounds of physical measurement.

>which have a subjective, private character.
Every character's neural coding scheme is private to that character and subjective to the sensation it senses and stores in its biological medium.

> experience can be equated with these mere movements of matter
The experience of sight is just light hitting your eye, your eye encoding data and signalling the brain and the brain storing the encoded signals and you have no other real explanation that isn't just ad hominem drivel about how I would see something more otherworldly than light if I were a true whatever.

>Qualia has never been measured externally.
But a human body's internal experience has been which is why qualia is not the same thing as internal experience since the vagueness of qualia leaves too much room for some undefinable soul of the gaps.

>>15760759
why? lol. you're not proving souls are real.
>you can't prove that bro
fuck off, not giving you any proof, you don't deserve one dipshit. not arguing like that.

>>15760750
Notice how quickly you degenerate into incoherent rambling. My point still stands: your views are self-culling.

>>15760729
Yea and the most basic self erasing you can get is when you can't even provide a basic explanation your views without exploding into a rage and ranting about other people identities thereby erasing your view before you even wrote it.

>>15760770
well my views scientifically make more sense than your views. even without proof (no proof which equals your position as well) my proposition has more scientific truth to it, there are scientific arguments on my side, you have not only jack shit (as in retarded hallucinations from your brain), you declared it's not even provable.

>>15760746
Neuronal encoding is the physical subjectification of the material experience that your own body sensed.

>>15760771
>>15760774
You have not refuted the fact that your views are self-erasing and therefore invalid.

>>15760759
It has already been explained and you just say nuh-uh and use some other vague synonym for qualia/consciousness/human experience to deny actual thoroughly studied phenomenon employing more well defined and precise language, then you usually pull some mean name out of your database and end on a fallacious note.

>>15760765
>Do he didn't deny anything and said he was gladly waiting for any shred of proof from people who can't even provide a coherent definition that can be investigated.
Which means he doesn't believe in it, which is only possible if he doesn't have it. He's an NPC. An unconscious automaton, like you.

>Something based in physical matter.
So photons and gravity aren't material? What does "physical" mean?

>Every character's neural coding scheme is private to that character and subjective to the sensation it senses and stores in its biological medium.
Neural correlates aren't qualia. You aren't talking about anything but atoms bumping around.

>The experience of sight is just light hitting your eye, your eye encoding data and signalling the brain and the brain storing the encoded signals
Wrong. The experience of sight is a conscious experience distinct from the mere movements of particles. That you believe otherwise is because you are not conscious.

>But a human body's internal experience has been
Nope.

>>15760782
You're not a real person.

>>15760776
They are not self erasing when they are being stored in dictionaries, textbooks, and as functional self replicating applications in computers You are self erasing by falling back on some view you were taught as a child, but still can't even precisely describe.

>>15760775
That's gibberish.

>>15760784
Why bother with all that other stuff and try to abuse vague language to make a shitty irrational easily refutable point when you can just go straight for the fallacy employing abusive language instead, right?

>>15760768
>why?
So you believe it based on faith? Alright.

>>15760783
>He's an NPC. An unconscious automaton, like you.
>soul is something I can award myself with and take away from you whenever I feel like. that's why I need this framework moron. I'm a piece of shit that way.

Threadly reminder that qualia denial is just another cancerous outgrowth of materialism, and materialism goes hand in hand with nihilism, which leads to social decay and the eventual crumbling of materialist society. There is no reason to consider or engange with self-culling views. They are intellectual cul-de-sacs that play no role in the evolution of ideas.

>>15760792
You're not a real person, you do not have consciousness, so what is the point of trying to convince you of it's existence?

>>15760791
Nope your physical body is the subject and its neural encoding is slightly different from every other body, and everything it encodes is based on some kind of stimulus or sensory organ feedback that your body sensed from its environment, you just don't have a very well developed vocabulary since you prefer vague terms instead of precision language.

>>15760795
no I mean why should I prove it TO YOU? you did no effort for proving your shit story.

>>15760723
>>that are measurable
>Qualia has never been measured externally. It is impossible to do so.
>It is impossible to do so.
It's just an assertion that it's impossible to measure externally.
Maybe if people actually tried investigating this crap instead of just assuming its this or that. Then philosophy would actually progress.

>>15760799
You have no real argument, you can't even define your terms, you clearly don't even know what consciousness is, let alone if you or anything else has it..

>>15760797
>Threadly reminder that qualia denial is just another cancerous outgrowth of materialism, and materialism goes hand in hand with nihilism, which leads to social decay and the eventual crumbling of materialist society. There is no reason to consider or engange with self-culling views. They are intellectual cul-de-sacs that play no role in the evolution of ideas.
this. materialtards lose the argument by default

>>15760799
so apart from this magical soul having no possible proof (if this doesn't ring bells...), you apparently can fucking decide on who has it or not. lol. what the fuck you have an imbecile brain. it's like arguing with fucking toddlers. you are fucking braindead

>>15760808
No, the very basic default of an argument is to be able to define your terms and materialists can do that while others have to fall back on some kind of unexplainable otherworldly entity involving crude ambiguous language and plenty of personals attacks that somehow "prove" they have the thing they can't even define.

>>15760816
no one needs to define anything and nothing you say matters for reasons pointed out by >>15760797

>>15760799
>mmm sweaty I don't like how you are talking to me, I'm seeing in your aura your soul fading away. you better start sucking on this cock if you ever want it back jussain
most corrupt scum of the earth

>>15760813
>so apart from this magical soul having no possible proof
You'd only ask for proof if you lacked one.
>you apparently can fucking decide on who has it or not
Yes. It's obvious someone lacks a soul if they question the existence of qualia.

>>15760823
The consensus ITT is that you and your friend have no consciousness.

>>15760825
ah so you do agree you play politics with people's souls.

>>15760803
>It's just an assertion that it's impossible to measure externally.
It's a logical necessity that qualia can't be measured externally. Best case scenario, maybe you could link your brains and start sharing eachother's experiences, but even that would be like watching the same TV show someone else is watching rather than actually getting access to their qualia.

>>15760822
I accept you concession, you can't explain anything about your claims and you can't even engage with actual explanations with fully developed applications with demonstrable predictive power.

>>15760800
Never seen an NPC schizo before. Must be bugged.

>>15760596
>be means to exist which means to be a measurable part of physical reality.
So thoughts can't be anything? Thoughts don't exist? Is your head empty?

>platitudes and ad hominem.
Fallacy fallacy. Properly address my argument or leave the thread.

>>15760834
my imaginary "concession" doesn't help you in any way. your opinion is just an offshoot of a failed ideology from a dying society. i'll save the effort for something that matters. your views aren't even worth discussing seeing as they have no share of the future

>>15760835
I have seen plenty of retards, so don't worry, what you are experiencing is common among your subpopulation.

>>15760602
Are you sure?

>>15760839
Sure you are going to rant about everyone being chatgpt in every future thread because neural networks don't exist.

>>15760847
no idea what your schizoramble is about but your views are inherently irrelevant - something you can't refute or even dispute. lol

>>15760753
>rocks have experiences

>>15760868
not all matter, certain matter arrangements.
but when did you ever argue in good faith anon? when haven't you been a sissy little faggot, ethically speaking?

>>15760854
Except for when it does get continually disputed and you just refuse to engage and start with the personal attacks since you are the one unable to logically refute anything.

>>15760870
>if i put the rocks in a certain shape magic happens
Materialism is a mental illness.

>>15760870
>statues are real people
Are you braindead?

>>15760873
you can't refute the fact that your opinion dies when materialist society dies, nor the fact that materialist society is dying as we speak. literally no reason to acknowledge anything you say. it has no part in the future

>>15760874
>>if i put the rocks in a certain shape magic happens
well yes.
>>15760874
>Materialism is a mental illness.
enjoy the ibuprofen faggot

>>15760868
Sorry your family didn't love you and never showed you how to make rock's experience dozens of skips across a calm smooth lake.

>>15760875
no but I must insist on the faggotry of your faith in arguing.