/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15707996
>excess deaths
Oh wow, something against secondary infections helped patients survive. Mind blowing.
Doesn't mean it helps against COVID/SARS-CoV-2. Retard.

>>15708017
>stops you from dying
>not helpful

>>15707996
Yet the virus didn't even exist so what the hell are they trating?

>correlational study
>paid for by FLCCC
>published in Cureus
Okay, looks good.

>>15708109
*treating

>>15708055
>not helpful
Never said that. kys (with horse dewormer)

>>15708017
>something against secondary infections
Wut.
Where does it say that?

>Doesn't mean it helps against COVID/SARS-CoV-2
Even Bill Gates' "Together Trial" (the gold standard one that supposedly debunked ivermectin) observed it prevented death by 10-20%.
Luckily they chose a small enough sample so that it wasn't significant. What use is a trial if it is blind to a 20% death reduction?
They also administered ivermectin late (arrival at hospital instead of first symptoms).
They also used some weird "credible interval" instead of the standard confidence interval used in hypothesis testing without providing the prior distribution they used as their initial guess for how ivermectin performs (I'd guess they rigged that too).

>>15708236
>prevent death
Again, slower for you: preventing death from COVID does not imply preventing COVID. It just prevents secondary infections from killing the patients.
>They also administered ivermectin late
There you go, disproved yourself.

>>15708473
>secondary infections
Where are you getting that? Any proposed MOA for this?
The MOA for why it works against covid is it is anti-inflammatory (addressing the cytokine storm), it binds to the spike (addressing infection), it binds to the ace receptor (addressing infection), and it interferes with viral replication.
>late
as in earlier would have been more optimal to see a stronger effect (they wanted ivermectin to look bad so they designed their "study" to make it look as bad as possible)

>>15708572
Anne because you have zero data on early "treatment" that means it's correct? Okay. No problem though, I'll hook you up:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9006771/
>Treatment with ivermectin did not result in a lower incidence of medical admission to a hospital due to progression of Covid-19 or of prolonged emergency department observation among outpatients with an early diagnosis of Covid-19

>>15707996
quick credentials check, oops!
>Juan J. Chamie
>I'm not a medical professional.
>lmao
>Jennifer A. Hibberd, Sc.D.
>Dentistry • Pediatric Specialist
>A FUCKING DENTIST
>David e. Scheim
>is this him? https://medicalupdateonline.com/in-discussion-with/dr-david-scheim/
hmm...

>>15707996
> tfw you can trick chuds into consuming horse dewormer

You know, I don't know why we didn't capitalize on this. When COVID was big, we should have pushed hemlock tea or foxglove or something as the antidote to COVID instead.

>>15707996
>Correlational study
trash

>>15708610
You do realize this is the "Together Trial" I spoke of?
It seems to show promise (10-20%) in almost all categories.
The smoker category seems weird because the data indicates ivermectin didn't help as much as placebo (although the incident rate is so low its anyone's guess whether the difference is meaningful) but it also (unintentionally) shows current smokers doing better than former and non- smokers in each arm so I image the smokers were younger on average (participants needed at least one risk factor to enroll).

The 0-3 day and 4-7 day categories don't make much sense because their aggregate skews against ivermectin while aggregates for other all-encompassing categories (age, sex) skew in favor of ivermectin. My guess is there is missing data (either unknown symptom onset time or onset later than 7 days).
There were either a bunch of people who were really in the 0-3 category who were unlabelled and would pull it back towards ivermectin or the later interventions had more impact.

It also lacks a multivariate analysis. I'd like to see if significance and sizeable effect are reached if you look at people who were in multiple categories.
But just from this I'd say the data leans towards administering ivermectin is good until proven otherwise especially in the elderly.

Instead of scaling up to see if the 20% benefit in elderly was real, they just wanted "The Science" to "prove" ivermectin didn't help so they could disregard it.
A 12% reduction in death would also be something to justify scaling up.

>>15708843
Anon, you cannot into statistics, right?
https://academic.oup.com/jac/article/77/5/1413/6534008
>In this meta-analysis, the use of ivermectin was not associated with the prevention of RT–PCR-confirmed or symptomatic COVID-19.

>>15709024
>4 studies
There are meta analyses with way more.
>In this meta-analysis, the use of ivermectin was not associated with the prevention of RT–PCR-confirmed or symptomatic COVID-19.
What does it say about the 2 most relevant outcomes: hospitalization and death?

I wouldn't expect it to PREVENT covid. The concentration in the body isn't high enough.
I would expect it to slow the progression and blunt the severity.

You do see in the best of the 4 studies that ivermectin does the best at reducing symptomatic covid (~50% better than other interventions).

>>15708681
The decided to push things like SV40 instead

>>15707996
again?

>>15709054
>I wouldn't expect it to PREVENT covid
Why not? You don't make any sense. The way you think it works, it should.

>>15708207
LOL horse dewormer!!! (because they use it to deworm horses)

Now THAT is funny anon! Mind if I save it? (copy and paste in Microsoft Word)

>>15708843
>in each arm so I image the smokers were younger on average
Or smoking kills covid/

>>15710856
No, because gullible retards like you bought the horse version and shat their intestines out.

>>15707996
>page 65
Did the creator of that image think that every edition has the same page layout? Did he really not understand that the same sentence of a novel will end up on different pages depending on the page and font size as well as the typeface?

>>15710956
He obviously refers to the original print.
>Did the creator [...] think?
Did you?

>>15710670
>The way you think it works, it should.
Are you even trying to understand in good faith? Me mentioning concentration should have tipped you off. You don't think that I thought having 1 ivermectin molecule in the body would prevent covid did you?

Ivermectin interferes with the spike binding to ace2.
It interferes with the virus replication after it gets into a cell.
Nowhere have I given the impression that I think it clogs all spikes and all ace2 receptors or stops all replication.
Obviously things depend on concentration. We are limited by the maximum concentration the body can handle.
At best it is adding friction and slowing down the multiplication rate giving your own immune system more time to learn how to fight the infection.

>>15711026
>the original print
Let me get my 1949 first edition of that book to read the passage some Facebook troll wants me to read.

>>15710956
they all have the same page layout

>>15707996
>two weeks
lol

>>15708017
ah the worms cope

>>15711640
if you're gonna be a source autist just get an electronic version and ctrl+f it

>>15710381
They always are.

>>15711629
>it works better when there are 100 times as many spikes in the body
Anon, are you listening to yourself? You say it helps with, say, a dosage X against, let's just say, 1000 spike proteins in your body. But dose X won't help against 10 spike proteins in your body. Why?

>>15712095
Parasites in general, but yes. That's literally what it's used for.

>>15710956
That kid in the OP picrel that triggered you won dozens of lawsuits against major leftist media outlets and is now worth about a billion dollars

>>15712238
>ivermectin works as a covid treatment
>ivermectin is used for parasites
>therefore the most likely scenario is that ivermectin treats parasite infestations that make people more likely to die of covid
Ivermectin's success rate is too high for this to be a plausible explanation.

>>15708017
fpbp

Ivermectin is a safe and effective treatment for many parasites. Most healthcare systems aren't capable of diagnosing everyone with a parasitic infections. It's like there is a population deficient in some mineral or vitamin and they were finally treated for it.

>>15710946
Heckin shat their intestines out did they? LOL (intestines aren't supposed to come out of your b*m)

They shouldn't have bought the HORSE version LOL(IT'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S FOR HORSES) HECKIN IDIOTSSS LOLOL!!!! XD

>>15710946
Because for some reason the authorities made it difficult to obtain the human version

>>15712356
>>ivermectin works as a covid treatment
No, it doesn't. It has zero effect.

>>15712377
yes.jpg
>>15712381
Yes and no, it was because the human stuff was sold out and the government had to ration remaining doses because gullible retards gulped it down despite nobody having reported any positive effect. But yeah, thanks for making the producer rich I guess?

Ivermectin was never a conspiracy theory. None of my physician friends dismissed it, and we're all very liberal. Just because some people on Twitter arrogantly mocked it, it doesn't mean that it was some kind of anti-establishment position. Everyone was waiting for larger trials.

>>15712395
Most studies show some positive effect

>>15708236
Competitive binding

trump be fr based and hillary is like mid

>>15712401
>the producer
ivermectin is generic, retard. It's dirt-cheap and manufacturers can easily pump out more (and foreign ones are)

>>15712406
>None of my physician friends dismissed it,
Maybe not casually with you, but they all did in the professional lives when it counted

>>15712411
Wrong. Most studies show zero effect. See >>15709024

>>15712583
that meta-analysis was on a whopping four studies, and actually three of them showed statistically significant improvement
there are of course more than those four studies
https://c19ivm.org/meta.html

>>15712419
And? Mass buying does not increase the producer's cash flow? What?

>>15712612
And so it's not like if everybody bought Ivermectin we would have a dangerous shortage? And it's retarded to talk about "the" producer of ivermectin? Because it's a generic chemical?

>>15712614
You're missing the point by a mile, dude. Or are you ESL?

>>15712610
And who's operating that website, which is not a scientific publication?
https://www.factcheck.org/2022/09/scicheck-clinical-trials-show-ivermectin-does-not-benefit-covid-19-patients-contrary-to-social-media-claims/
>The team reported multiple conflicts of interest: Two of the authors have financial ties with an ivermectin manufacturer, and four of them work for organizations that promote ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19.
Can you stop shilling for these people?

>>15708017
Are you fucking retarded? Reducing mortality is the only metric that matters. What should we take to have the lowest chance of death or serious injury?

>>15712681
Please work on your reading comprehension.

>>15708109
You're embarrassing yourself

>>15712684
Please work on your brainless worldview

>>15712647
are you implying the team in your greenquote is the team behind the website?

>>15712232
>it works better when there are 100 times as many spikes in the body
Cool quote. Everyone can verify if I said that.

>>15710946
I have human pills. 12mg. I never needed them because I somehow never got the most dangerous and most transmissible disease in human history.

>>15707996

JAP FOOD CURES COVID
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37650258/
Detection of recombinant Spike protein in the blood of individuals vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2: Possible molecular mechanisms
Brogna et al
The minimum and maximum time at which PP-Spike was detected after vaccination was 69 and 187 days, respectively.
our study suggests that the putative serine-protease(s) in natto may impair the infectious function of BHV-1 and SARS-CoV-2, probably through the proteolysis of its glycoprotein D and the spike protein, respectively.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X21010718#sec1
Natto extract, a Japanese fermented basedbean food, directly inhibits viral infections including SARS-CoV-2 in vitro
Oba et al

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natt%C5%8D

>>15708017
current medical protocol includes giving antibiotics when you have covid because bacterial lung infections often follow bad covid cases. Ofc antibiotics dont help against viruses, but it makes sense to apply them anyway. Ivermectin however is forbidden because its against the church.

>>15707996
Still obsessing about muh vaxx? Maybe you should get a job or start another hobby.

>>15713614
They're putting out a shit injection in a few weeks and they're going to roll out a propaganda campaign to get people to give it to their 6 month olds. They bribe or threaten scientists to go along with this. Wipe Albert Bourla's cum off your chin and tell us how this is irrelevant.

>>15713662
Have you considered that its you they want to kill with these genetically modified alien viruses and no the vaxxed sheeple? Think about it. Youre smartest schizo faggot on 4chan and they want to take you out. If I were part of elites you would be my number one target because you have seen too many conspiracy videos on youtube. System sees you as a threat and eliminates you. I even heard they put estrogen in chemtrails but the vaccines protect normal sheeple from it. Sadly free thinkers like you didnt get the memo.

>>15713671
Nta but I considered this and took the J&J vaxx to disguise myself.

>>15713671
>genetically modified alien viruses
It's been long enough that the injection has been shown to be utterly useless, the people pushing it lied so nobody who chose to take it knew what they were getting into, people were coerced into getting it. This is common knowledge. You ran to a strawman hoping that your audience has the memory of a goldfish and has not been paying attention for the past three years. I wouldn't be surprised if the magnet 5G retards were signal boosted at the start to make for an easier way to dismiss legitimate problems.

STOP THE SPREAD
of corporate media
https://www.brighteon.com/f8e70675-672c-48c3-bdaa-9838deb9ad97

why are conspiracy chads some much higher iq than everyone else?

>>15707996
It was all worth it to get trumpy out of office
I have a friend of mine whose father died from covid. Is she hunting down politicians who lied, picketing outside government buildings, demanding answers on a public forum?

Haha no, She moved on with her life and writes an occasional weepy Facebook post about her dead dad.

Tldr: nobody really cares about what went on during the scamdemic except a handful of malcontents on the internet.

>>15713671
>If I were part of elites you would be my number one target because you have seen too many conspiracy videos on youtube
dumb self-defeating argument, if the average conspiracy video on youtube is real enough for elites to assassinate you for watching, then the most blatant conspiracy in decades (covid and the vax scam) likely has some merit

>>15714559

>>15708017
Get boosted and die faggot

>>15708207
Compound discovery got the guy the nobel prize. Dumbasses like you need to fuck right off for good.

>>15708681
That compound saved kids in Africa from parasitic infections. Why are you so willfully ignorant? What's the fucking matter with you?

>>15714559
You care because you will pay the price..

>>15713671
Bro, they're just trying to make money and win political brownie points by "solving" the "problem" they convinced everyone is a big deal.
The schizos and sheeple are equally impotent from their point of view. If anything, the boat-rockers are more useful since they can be cast as a "problem" to be "solved" to gain/retain political power.

>>15708610
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/
> Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

>>15712647
The website is just an aggregate of virtually all scientific studies on ivermectin and covid. You can go to each individual study yourself

>>15712610
How can you do a meta analysis of 4 studies lmao science at work

>>15708681
>we should have pushed hemlock tea or foxglove or something as the antidote to COVID instead.
You make it sound like it was arbitrarily chosen like some meme healing crystal. It wasn't. Neither was HCQ (you can find it recommended in old studies of the original SARS virus).

What really happened is everyone started looking at every already-approved medicine that would be a good candidate against the virus once we understood enough about its genome and the receptors it targeted.
Ivermectin was already known to have antiviral activity before covid.
In June 2020, the initial in vitro study showing it was effective in cell culture (at unrealistic concentrations) was published.
This put it on everyone's radar.
This was after the HCQ bullshit (the incident where a guy's girlfriend poisoned him with fishtank HCQ) so the media was quick to scare the masses away from it.
Then you had the internet doctor types trying to dismiss it because you couldn't get to the concentration required to reach IC50 (which is a retarded standard since any reduction in replication is better than nothing).
Then in early 2021 people did molecular docking simulations which showed ivermectin was better than remdesivir and various other medicines at binding to the spike and the ace2 receptor.
But by this point, the vaccine was already rolled out and there was no political will to throw money at studying it (which would also disrupt the EUA and damage the reputation of the institutions that dismissed it if it was found to be effective).

>>15715256
good post, thanks

>>15712647
>factcheck.org
>t. i go to 4chan.org to spam it with globohomo propaganda

>>15707996
dont need a “peer reviewed” study to tell me it works when I used it myself.

If scientists are so high IQ, how come they can never figure out how to pull the wool over the eyes of the conspiracy theorists?

>>15715256
Hcq wasn’t bullshit. You can look at vladamir zelenkos study using it. The thing it that it was only ever proposed to be used as a prophylaxis or early treatment with the addition of zinc, but there was a giant wave of studies using it incorrectly to “prove” it doesn’t work.

>>15715604
How come doctors who write books to fight anti science can’t actually debate against someone they say is anti science (Peter hotez)

>>15716035
>Hcq wasn’t bullshit
Did you read the parentheses after?
I never said it was bullshit. It was the viral story about the guy dying from fishtank HCQ that was bullshit. The dude was an engineer so I doubt he'd fuck up the dose. His girlfriend was a rabid anti-trumper and their relationship was falling apart already. The bitch likely killed him with HQC and got to blame trump's disinformation. Last I heard they were investigating her for homicide but the story disappeared a couple months afterwards (the death happened in march 2020 in arizona).

>>15707996
>Peer-Reviewed Study Finds Ivermectin More Effective Than Vaccines At Preventing Covid Mortality
Breaking news: mortality higher in patients with parasites and Covid than in patients without parasites and Covid.

>>15716037
Doctors are low IQ, medical school is meant to keep high IQ people out of the profession same way as they prevent high IQs from becoming cops or joining the military.

>>15717012
What the suggestion is if you question your medical education you get kicked out of med school? Makes sense but the hotez guy has written entire books on it and he knows every line of dialogue rfk has and still refused to debate him. I think anti anti-science doctors are quacks

>>15707996
>the virgin clueless science truster
>the chad conspiracy knower science doubter

captcha: vaxnot

>>15717397
goyim knowing is intensifying

>>15712647
>>The team reported multiple conflicts of interest: Two of the authors have financial ties with an ivermectin manufacturer, and four of them work for organizations that promote ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19.
as opposed to the government/media/big farma conglomerate

>>15718334
it's a doggy dog world

>WTF, money launderers working against ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine
https://www.togethertrial.com/
https://www.togethertrial.com/publications
>FTX cryptocoin foundation funded research supporting the use fluvoxamine (an antidepressant) of as a treatment
and discouraging the use of Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine
Effect of Early Treatment with Ivermectin among Patients with Covid-19
Effect of early treatment with fluvoxamine on risk of emergency care and hospitalisation among patients with COVID-19: the TOGETHER randomised, platform clinical trial
Early Treatment with Fluvoxamine Among Patients with COVID-19: A Cost-Consequence Model
Early treatment with hydroxychloroquine or lopinavir and ritonavir on risk of hospitalization among patients with COVID-19: The TOGETHER randomized clinical trial
Edward J Mills and Gilmar Reis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8923674/
EJM is employed by Platform Life Sciences, which is a private company providing consultancy on global health trial design and methods. Platform Life Sciences is not involved with any work on COVID-19 vaccines. EJM has previously been employed by Cytel, which does contract research and software development. GR is the founder and an employee of Cardresearch, which leads the Brazilian TOGETHER trial of repurposed therapies for SARS-CoV-2.
https://worldcouncilforhealth.org/news/together-trial/
Scientific Misconduct Uncovered in the TOGETHER Ivermectin Trial
By World Council for Health June 12, 2022
The final report of the TOGETHER Trial, published in March 2022 in the New England Journal of Medicine, has major discrepancies in the data compared with what was published by the media more than six months earlier in addition to serious methodological inconsistencies that must be brought to light. Despite numerous requests by international scientists to address these issues, none has been forthcoming by TOGETHER Trial authors.

>>15715256
Post the studies that show a reduction in mortality.

trump be like based fr fr and hillary is cheughy and like totally mid. vaxxies are like totally mid and novax like... hits different

>>15718633
>https://www.cureus.com/articles/82162-ivermectin-prophylaxis-used-for-covid-19-a-citywide-prospective-observational-study-of-223128-subjects-using-propensity-score-matching#!/
>Conclusion: In this large PSM study, regular use of ivermectin as a prophylactic agent was associated with significantly reduced COVID-19 infection, hospitalization, and mortality rates.

>>15718322
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/goyim-knowshut-it-down

>>15717201
science is an institution, and a corrupt one. and your reply to this post will probably involve a little motte and bailley dance where you talk about science as an idea instead. dont bother.

>>15718751
this no cap

>>15719935
>dont bother.
ok

>>15707996
Fuck off I'm not reading that made up bullshit. Maybe horse drugs can be good for humans but you guys are fucking it up
There are human dewormers too you know and it's interesting how they work as well as horse tranqualizer

If people want to take horse drugs then let them. There are human versions of them but doing that is a different type of market, if a horse version works in a way the human one doesn't. They shouldn't have (in my opinion) taken it away from everyone but instead just make more and let people see what it does. I don't know anything about science but not letting people do it is unfair in my opinion
Also sage

Ivermectin

>>15708843
>it also (unintentionally) shows current smokers doing better than former and non- smokers in each arm
Early on there were reports from France looking into why they weren't seeing the level of covid in smokers that they would have expected to. I don't know what came of that.

>>15722970
Yeah, that's what I remember. I think that was the initial trend in China too.
Apparently there are a bunch of studies on the ant-inflammatory effects of nicotine. It probably didn't prevent infection but it may have reduced severity.

>>15722970
>>15723000
>people stay 6' away from stinky>>15722307
smokers
>stinky smokers don't get Covid
Rocket science.

>>15707996
I'm curious why these ivermectin specialists haven't finished chugging down some of their favorite horse dewormer yet. Shouldn't these conspiracy theorists actually test their little experiment, or are they afraid reality might set in?

>>15723363
>reeeeeee!!!
>conspiracy theorists!!!

>>15708207
You’re such a fucking dumbass. Ivermectin is the MOST PRESCRIBED DRUG IN HISTORY. Africa for decades. Wow no matter what you think of the whole situation, you can’t fucking refute this. Its safety record is so fucking long as to be historical at this point. Billions and billions of doses or more. Literally you’re either trolling or just dumb as fuck.

>>15708610
>he unironically cited bill gates
Kek. Man, Ivermectin was such a flop, Pfrier spent tens of millions to discredit it until their inferior copy of it got patented and FDA approved.

>>15708843
>shows current smokers doing better than former and non- smokers in each arm so I image the smokers were younger on average (participants needed at least one risk factor to enroll).
It is accepted that smokes statistically did better with covid mortality than non smokers. This was observed early on in the pandemic. Nicotine and its various alkaloids are potent ace-2 agonists causing competition with the virus, along with multiple other pathways that would increase survival rates. Ivermectin is also an ace-2 agonist...

>>15725362
also worth noting that smoking cigarettes is not an unhealthy practice for people under 40