/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15678673
>the IQ of Orcas is equivalent to that of fifteen or sixteen-year-old humans
Probably measured against TikTok zoomers like you.

>>15678673
Is that the same as 40 year old Somalians?

>>15678673
I could only get to an early part of genesis when I tried to read that stuff. Once it started saying that god gave us authority over animals I just closed the thing. It’s part of their faith that humans are special in a weird sort of absolute way. Has been awful for culture

>>15678692
We do have authority over animals, we use them for food as we please, we don't ask their permission. We own them as pets or cattle. It is technically true, but I get what you mean.
I am not sure if any other religion is so strongly against aliens as christians are. They would impede our progress until the day aliens are standing in front if them, then they will try to teach them about jesus. This will be one of the funniest things I hope to live long enough to see

>>15679887
Also, if some species of animal one day becomes intelligent like us, they are going to be pissed to learn how humans enslaved them and killed them

>religion vs science thread

I am sooo sure that they are researching in a responsible, ethical, accurate manner; nobody would just go and lie for grant money.

>>15678673
All this proves is that IQ is a useless measure lol. IQposters BTFO.

>>15678673
Too bad they are terminally cucked out of relevancy because they lack hands and life in a medium hostile to fire, other solvents, or basically anything where the requirement is “don’t be a diluted useless piece of watery garbage”

>>15678680
ice cream yum

>>15678673
>orcas are literally smarted than 87% of niggers
Holy Kek.

>>15678673
I want to teach a orca how to smuggle cocaine across the border in cargo netting.

>>15678687
there's no way the average Somalian is smarter than the average orca. I'd bet a fortune in the same body the orca would dust it

When i was 15 or 16 i could do algebra and basic calculus. I knew where we were in the solar system and galaxy. I could write you a story, either about something I had done or something that was a total fantasy in a universe with different rules to our own.... i could go on

orcas cant do any of that shit, where are they getting this number from

>>15680565
approximately irrelevant. they could evolve even hands in a few thousand years; evolution doesn't give a fuck about a few thousand years; it could wait for millions.

the only thing that fucks them is if it happens their planet has a more evolved species.

>>15680960
orcas aren't educated tho

>>15680968
>orcas aren't educated tho
how are they testing their iq

we evolved abstract and mathematical thinking over thousands of years, they have never had a use for it. what capabilities do they have, what does saying they are as smart as a teenager even mean

also at 16 you are pretty much as "smart" as you are going to get, nearly anyway. Everything after that is learning and application not growth of raw intelligence

also if you deprive a human child from learning our speech and other things till they are 15 they will just be retarded for life and cant learn. A lot of saying "as smart as a 15 year old" means "as smart as an educated 15 year old" an uneducated 15 year old is going to be stuck as a mental toddler for life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

>>15680976
Abstract and mathematical thinking came as the result of coordination from pack hunting, and the necessity to calculate the momentum of a slung object

Orcas have this, and additionally likely need to be able to calculate momentum and other mathematically derived properties due to currents, comparing relative speeds, and their ability to communicate with clicks

>>15679895
That's not how evolution works retard

>>15680984
>>15680984
well it gets down to how they tested al this, hummingbirds can fly but i doubt they know much about aerodynamics

A teenage human is capable of a lot they could understand how a plane flies and what that means. Can you teach that to an orca? if not, what do they even mean

IQ has nothing to do with age you fucking retards.

>>15680993
>IQ has nothing to do with age you fucking retards.
aaaaactualy IQ literally has everything to do with age.

you don't know much about the history of IQ testing (and the reason testing for it was invented) do you?

>>15680986
Its obviously the contextual usage of the ability that creates mathematical consciousness

Bugs have a single speed. Fish have maybe 2 speeds, but complex ability to follow currents, and no prefictive capacity, hence their competetive advantage over prehistorical fish

Dolphins are clearly capable of making predictions, hence their ability to build momentum, spring up into the air, and somersault for fun

Theres no other animal that can do this

>>15680996
>Dolphins are clearly capable of making predictions, hence their ability to build momentum, spring up into the air, and somersault for fun
Bro shit tons of other animals arguably have the same knowledge of their environment and movement as this.

Saying you are "as smart as a teenager" implies you could understand the same things a teenager could not that you have evolved under huge constraint the ability to jump out of the water. If I had a teenager who could predict his jumps and say slam a basketball into the net would you say he was the smartest kid in his class if he was also illiterate?

wait....

>>15681006
I am not op faggot

I think you are very highly overrstimating the average capabilities of someone that is 100 iq

Someone with 100 iq literally cannot even read a bar graph. To state that these cretins are very high above dolphins just doesnt pan out. Their ability to copy the behavior of others is masking the fact that are barely or nonsentient

>>15681009
>Someone with 100 iq literally cannot even read a bar graph.
citation needed

Go watch birds or something a hawk or condor can soar in the air and figure out how to ride thermals (which can take human pilots a long time to master) and predict airflow such that they can fly for hours without flapping their wings.

>>15681014
Check the PISA data. This isnt even remotely controversial

https://akarlin.com/stupid-people/

Here is a simple breakdown. This is the failure rate AFTER experiencing 8 hours of schooling daily, and covering specifically this topic. How to read bar graphs. They STILL FAIL

The average human is fucking dumber than you think. And 100 is below average

>>15681031
>bar graph
not him, but that's often lack of education or psychological reactionism. e.g. my sister is an intelligent actress but somehow she always had a fear against mathematics and science in general so I get the sense she'd 'fail' a bar graph test (at least when she was a teen) because she might feel threatened by just seeing it (purely psychological).

>>15681031
yeah man i don't know about that, how could they drive a car or do their taxes or do fucking anything

>>15680960
Yeah, all that is school taught.

>>15681044
>Yeah, all that is school taught.
that's the kind of thing we use to measure how "smart" someone is. Also creating a fantasy universe with different rules than our own then making up a story about it is not really school taught it's something you to know where you are and the rules of your universe and how to make shit up.... etc

what are they basing this shit on, if an orca goes click click and points at a fish and shows another orca the fish then he's as smart as a 15 year old human?

nah

>>15681037
Sorry bro your sister is dumb. Maybe not retarded, but dumb. I dont care about your excuses for why you like to suck dick but youre not really gay. This is something they have to do, they have plenty of time and support, and they just cant.

>>15681041
With lots of problems. Iq also correlates very strongly with the number and severity of accidents.

People are NOT very good at routine tasks

>>15680976
>>15681053

What exactly do you think is on an IQ test?

>>15681057
>What exactly do you think is on an IQ test?
I have taken real IQ tests. They focus on pattern recognition and working memory, mathematical ability (esp doing operations in. your mind in memory), analytical thinking and a lot on language comprehension and relationship comprehension

what do you think is on an iq test? "hey orca can you go 'click click' ok ur a genus"

>>15681056
>dumb
she's very intelligent and social. she'd probably become mayor in this town if she run.

some people are psychologically scared of math when their brain is capable.

>>15678673
>research says
shut the fuck up

>>15681072
Women love talking to people and never shutting up. Big surprise.

Shut the fuck up simp

>>15681065
>They focus on pattern recognition
Orcas got that
>and working memory
Orcas got that
>mathematical ability (esp doing operations in. your mind in memory)
Orcas kinda got that, obviously they're not writing it down, so it's mostly a bunch of mental guesstimating
>analytical thinking and a lot on language comprehension and relationship comprehension
Orcas got that, it also turns out you can actually make a whole language out of "clicks." You should be smart enough to infer there is more than one type of "clicking" sound.

>>15681077
>>They focus on pattern recognition
>Orcas got that
show me, they do things like show you a pattern then you have to recreate the pattern with blocks and they time you and rate you for accuracy.

it's a little more involved than just being able to look at an animal and say "they got that" vs being able to show me exactly how you test for that, exactly how the orca preformed the test and how you measured it

>>15681077
>>analytical thinking and a lot on language comprehension and relationship comprehension
>Orcas got that, it also turns out you can actually make a whole language out of "clicks." You should be smart enough to infer there is more than one type of "clicking" sound.
sigh

for instance this is an actual question on the Stanford Binet test that I remember. They asked me "what do your greatest enemy and best friend have in common" low iq people will only envision that relationship as opposites and answer something like "nothing". While the proper answer showing deeper understanding might be something like "they are both people you think about" or something like that. Even "they are both human" is better than "nothing one is good other bad"

show me how to ask an orca a question like that. Show me their testing methodology

show me

>>15681083
>They asked me "what do your greatest enemy and best friend have in common"
Do you think they're going to ask them who the first US President is and expect them, or anyone who isn't in the US, to actually know the answer? This is specific trivia knowledge, not actual IQ.

>>15681083
Not him

But you admitted that most humans will fail this question from the stanford binet. Assuming that orcas also fail, well that puts orcas and stupid humans in the same camp. Not exactly the same iq, but certainly more similar to each other in neasurable task perforance than they are to a human that isnt retarded

I think you are exaggerating the cognitive gap between dumb humans and animals. Nonverbal autistic humans have no way if being measured on task performance. But it is obvious many understand human relationships BETTER than they understand even simple physical tasks

>>15681091
>Do you think they're going to ask them who the first US President is and expect them, or anyone who isn't in the US, to actually know the answer? This is specific trivia knowledge, not actual IQ.
did i fucking post a triva question?

They could ask an orca what their best orca friend and a prey fish have in common. "They both swim" would be an answer, "nothing one for eat one friend" would be a stupider answer

nobody said anything about trivia cockbag

you would have to find a way to relay this complex idea of the question to the orca then get an answer back. but the orca is probably not smart enough to even comprehend the question in a meaningful way.

thus making the orca about as smart as a 2 year old

>>15681094
>But you admitted that most humans will fail this question from the stanford binet. Assuming that orcas also fail, well that puts orcas and stupid humans in the same camp. Not exactly the same iq, but certainly more similar to each other in neasurable task perforance than they are to a human that isnt retarded
I think the orca would not only "fail" but lack the ability to even understand what a "relationship" is on a deeper level than "thing over there, me eat" maybe not even having a complex idea of what "me" is in it's mind.

In other words I do not think you could make the orca undersand you are trying to relate the bait fish to it's friend in any way at all. Like trying to explain relativity to cat

maybe im wrong, maybe im not, but OP makes a bold statement what i am saying is show me why you think what you think in great detail

show me

>>15681096
Are you saying because there is a significant language barrier, you personally have given up on trying to figure out how smart that potentially could be?

>>15681098
>In other words I do not think
yeah, it shows

>>15681099
>Are you saying because there is a significant language barrier, you personally have given up on trying to figure out how smart that potentially could be?
no

I am saying that barrier would have to be overcome in some clever way by the tester (and if it was over come i would be VERY interested to read all about it and i don't mean that in a smart ass way i mean that i would read about that and think about it for months an be very happy) .

if they cant even show me they can communicate the slightest abstract thought to the orca then get an answer back, well then they are fucked for making claims such as the one in the OP

does not mean orcas are smart or stupid, just that we are still working on the kind of meaningful communication and careful testing protocol needed to make such bold claims

>>15681110
will you seem to be making bold claims that they can't do anything. Maybe if you're so curious you can look into this yourself instead of lazily arguing on 4chan

>>15681098
Bro, did you not SEE all of the idiots run out and fill themselves full of the gene modifying shots that had a 100 percent death rate in all of the medical studies? They bragged in the press that they made it eith a computer in 48 hours. And people put that shit inside of them

Do you think this somehow magically indicates that these people have a sense of SELF?

These people are clearly unconscious and mimicking both the actions and WORDS of other people. There is no direct relationship between the ability to form a string of words and being aware. Chatgpt can speak. Is it aware exactly?

People are NOT intelligent dude

>>15681075
go back to /pol/ nazi child. come back when you can have coherent scientific thoughts.

>>15681118
>will you seem to be making bold claims that they can't do anything.
do you really think that?

I am saying they should show me

what part of "show me" is a bold claim

putting the mental age of a human late teenager on a fish (lol) is an extraordinary claim, you cant just say you did it without evidence

>Some researchers have done research
Nice source. Where's the X screenshot?

>>15681124
>on a fish
>orca
>fish

>>15681124
>extraordinary claim,

>>15681120
>a 100 percent death rate in all of the medical studies
go back to /pol/ nazi child. come back when you can have coherent thoughts on science.

I had 100 boosters and my power level is above you and I'll keep doing boosters while laughing at you you little nazi bitch.

>>15681120
>somehow magically
rolleyes

>>15681120
>People are NOT intelligent dude
i guess an orca made these computers we are using

>>15681127
did you not see the

>>15681127
fucktard here does not get sarcasm or know what lol means

Religious scientist chad here. I never once thought that animals were stupid or inferior to humans in such a way that they are categorically intelligently inferior. For example, humans can predict natural disasters far before humans can, sheeps/cows/etc all migrate away from areas that will have earthquakes and scientists still can't explain why.

Humans being caretakers for humans in religious sects never once brought about the official postulation that humans are superior or that humans are solely made in Gods image and others aren't. The exclusion of expansion in the knowledge base of religious workings/arrays are not exlusive to the inkling belief that such a thing - Animals are inferior to humans - may be true.

tldr; OP is 16 years old.

>>15679887
We don't have authority over them, we just have power

>>15678673
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_IepvcqGp4&t=10s

>>15681110
Orcas can somehow coordinate novel attack plays similar to a football coach and we know their language is learned and goes through phonetic shifts passes on by mothers and aunts even if a male breeds outside his race.


Just watching them hunt you can tell they have more going on than chimps. I mean in pre modern times they helped human whalers hunt in a coordinated fashion in trade for offal.

The fish are probably the closest thing to a peer we have.

>>15681724
Did they really do that? Thats fookin sick cunt

How could they have possibly known the humans wanted to find whales

>>15681738
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tom_(orca)

>>15678673
They're even more spiritually evolved than humans. Because they only eat meat. The most spiritually evolved diet.

>>15678673
They were smart enough to just walk right back into the water, unevolve legs and stay primitive. May humanity reach that level of enlightenment one day.

>>15681065
>>15680976
>let me conflate education and intelligence to an embarrassing level (nevermind intelligence is determined from birth)
>let me then proceed to defeat my own point by listing precisely why education does not matter one iota for an IQ test done the proper way (i.e. you didn't cram for the IQ test)
Certainly one of the less intelligent /sci/ posters this month.

>>15680960
I guess you're smarter than the average whale

>>15681985
NTA. I get what you mean and I kek'd slightly. but see >>15678680