/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15595878
how do you know they collapsed the wave function? how do you know YOU aren't the one who did it? you can't uncollapse it to check.

>>15595883
The receiver observes at a predetermined time

>>15595883
you can always prolapse your anus

>>15595890
Observing means collapsing you retard. You can't actualy see if the other side collapsed it. If one side collapsed it, it's collapsed for both. That's what entangled means.

>>15595928

Just have a robot look at it and tell you later. Or seal it in an envelope and you open it in front of friends. Or enemies.

>>15595878
You have two briefcases.
You don't know what's in them, but you know they're linked somehow.
No matter how far you take these two briefcases, they're still linked together in some way.

Now, you open one briefcase.
Inside, there's a blue ball, and photo of a red ball.
You now instantly know that the other briefcase contains a red ball.

No information has been transmitted, and the other briefcase doesn't know it's been found out.
But, you've now opened the first briefcase, so now the photo in the unopened briefcase isn't necessarily true anymore, because the blue ball can be replaced by a green one.

>>15596038
Intradasting explanation.

>schizophasia thread

>one particle will know that the other one has been observed, no matter where in the universe it is
is there anything else in the universe that is faster than light?

>>15596099

No just this one thing, its weird haha

>>15596099
>one particle will know
It doesn't.

>>15595878
the wave function doesn't collapse. you need to catch up. we're in a superdeterministic universe.

>>15596166
based quantum physics denier

>>15596370
IT DOESN'T FUCKING KNOW
NO INFORMATION IS TRANSFERRED
IF YOU TAKE A POLAROID OF YOUR ASS AND YOU'RE UNSURE WHETHER YOU PUCKERED OR NOT, AND YOU DEVELOP IT, THE MOMENT YOU DEVELOP IT THE STATE OF YOUR ASS COLLAPSES INTO A KNOWN STATE
YOUR ASS DOESN'T FUCKING KNOW ANYTHING
NO FAIRY IS TRAVELING AT LIGHT FUCKING SPEED TO TELL YOUR ASS TO UNPUCKER NEXT TIME
IT DOESN'T FUCKING KNOW

piss and shid

You can't decide in what value it will collapse anyway, you cannot send meaningful information, that's it.

Literally the whole problem with this is that physicists have a retatdedly autistic definition of information that is completely different from normal parlance.

>>15596932
You are a fucking retard
You cannot decide if you send a 0 and 1. You simply cannot, you cannot force it. Therefore you are not fucking communicating anything.

>>15596950
"hey bro if this collapses it means something"

"okay"

Information has been transmitted faster than light.

This is the problem with you autists. Your narrow view of information is limited to that of the system. For literally anyone else on earth, that's not what they're thinking.

>>15596968
"if this collapses"
Are you stupid? What do you think collapses means? You cannot know, once you measure, if it was you who collapsed first of the other guy. There is no distinguishable difference. You look and see a 0, now what? Was it you first? Was it them? You don't know.

>>15595878
Yikes, this has been debunked millions on times already. You have schizophasia, you express nonsensical phrases that sound right because the grammar is still correct.

>>15597021
>You have schizophasia
What was your Psychology thesis on? Mine was on Physiological Developmental Psychology; Means Testing as Evolutionary Processes.

>>15597047
You are a fraud

>>15597052
You dont have the credentials to audit mine, do you?

Do you even attend lectures?

>>15597096
Audit? Where do you think you are, in a court of law?
You are a fraud because you pretend to be some successful international man of intrigue while you are just a mundane guy with an interest in STEM

>>15597099
>pretend
Your hypothesis was based on your ego, nor the facts. Youre so uneducated you cannot even verify my works, so you base your assumptions on emotions to save face from your own shame.

The shame is blotted out by your anger, so you can ignore it, but you still were stung...your soul still felt your own poisoning. Ego. Pride. Shame.

t.Psychologist

>>15595878
>>Sender collapses functions on a series of particles until they transmit the value they want
How does the receiver know which particles to check and in what order?

>>15597099
>interest in STEM
Ayy, Jonathan Gorard is tackling a big-brain problem from the programming side, I was trying to tackle this from an architecture side (waaaay harder, cause I typed /players 8 in the console for better loot and XP).

>>15597202
>How does the receiver know which particles to check and in what order?
Couldnt you send a repeating pattern and if the pattern if found and error free they could assume the other code is the intended code. Alternate occationally to check.

>>15597259
>Couldnt you send a repeating pattern and if the pattern if found and error free they could assume the other code is the intended code.
So as the receiver you need to be checking the particles in a predetermined order constantly, expecting a particular pattern to show that there is no message currently being sent (which would be a message itself, I guess) in order to catch the message as it comes in?
Seems very wasteful.
And then there's still the question of how does the sender ensure particular results from the wave function collapse. How does the sender know the result before he knows the result?

>>15595878
QM isn't real because you cant draw a picture of it. Proof of this is the discoveries of teleportation and time travel that do absolutely nothing of the sort.

QM scientists are liars trying to get more funding from the government who thinks they will get a new nuclear bomb out of it.

>>15595878
So random chance until you get what you want then have enough pause to know it was the desired signal. Repeat for hours or days until you send a short message in binary. All on a continuous steam of particles connected between the two specific points so you have enough particles to collapse all while maintaining Independence of the particles so they don't interact with each other or the environment to prevent spontaneous collapse. Sure, get with the engineering at long enough distances sufficient to make it better than sending photons as a signal
Also, the statement that you can't send a signal is on an individual pair, not a collection of pairs and random chance

>>15597470
>QM isn't real because you cant draw a picture of it.
I can draw a picture of a griffon. Are griffons real?

>>15597495
Are you actually this stupid or is everyone here just trolling

>>15595878
You forgot the part where you have to entangle the particles locally and then move them apart < speed of light

>>15595934

Once again, the issue is physics definition of information vs common parlance meaning of information.

Physics autism information ftl? Not possible

Normal English speaking definition of information ftl? Possible

>>15597522
>Normal English speaking definition of information ftl? Possible
Lol, no. You can't get that without satisfying the other.

>>15597522
Give an example

>>15595883
>>15595878
>collapsed the wave function
you retards really don't understand the difference between something that is unknown because you didn't measure it and something being a gaywave function.

105IQ midwits in this thread

>>15597512
kys nao

>>15596038
>you have a set of items a briefcase might contain
>fill two briefcases with the available items so that every item that is in one briefcase isn't in the other
>send other briefcase to your friend with a list of all possible items taped to the outside
>your friend opens the briefcase and knows what items are in your briefcase
>morons think the briefcases are quantum wave functions

>>15597458
>Seems very wasteful.
Im assuming these computers are on opposite ends of the galaxy with not way to verify each other, let alone communicate...as this computer would be the only means of communication.

>>15597259
>Jonathan Gorard
Was very enlightening, would recommend.
https://www.youtu.be/p2vadd_6550

>>15597607
Of course, you don't know the contents of your briefcase either, until you check it. Or until you hear from the other side what the contents of theirs is.

>>15597509
There must be a first to bring it there.

https://youtu.be/9MV1H_bAt-E

>>15597622
>>15597458
Quantum entanglement doesn't allow FTL communication because it doesn't allow communication. And even if it did allow quantum communication it would only allow at 2x the speed of the entangled particles because you would be firing the entangled particles from a midpoint. But again entanglement doesn't allow communication.

The best you can do is quantum encryption for regular communications because you encrypt with one half of the entangled particle and decrypt with the other half. You would need multiple entangled particles to get enough "bits" of encryption and the encrypted message must be transmitted through normal means. The only reason quantum encryption is secure is because if somebody else hijacks an entangled particle halfway the receiver won't be able to decrypt the message, although the hijacker might.

>>15597628
>you don't know the contents of your briefcase either, until you check it. Or until you hear from the other side what the contents of theirs is.
neither matter. because quantum wave functions are merely your uncertainty of reality, not the actual reality.

>>15597628
That's why you don't open it until a predetermined time.

It's absolutely possible to transmit information this way

>>15597684
>That's why you don't open it until a predetermined time.
Which doesn't matter, because the other side hasn't caused a particular contents in the briefcase.
That contents was always the contents. You just didn't know it.

>>15597708
That's why you open until you have the contents you want.

I'm flipping a coin to answer your questions. Heads is yes, tails is no. You ask a question to which the answer is yes. I flip, get tails. I flip again. Either I get heads or the fact that I flipped again should tell you that tails wasn't the result I wanted.

You can assign values to prescribe information.

>>15597652
>encryption
Can you look this over, would this be equivalent or is this just "something different"? The encryption aspect is outside my wheelhouse and Ive been fascinated by the sheer size of this thing.

https://steemit.com/nanocheeze/@nanocheeze/the-digital-onion-of-the-multiverse-and-last-thursday-ism-the-mequavis-broken-down-and-explained-layer-by-layer-we-is-a-going-ai

>>15597729
>That's why you open until you have the contents you want.
Yeah, that's not going to work.
The other side needs to know which ones you're ignoring. It just doesn't work.

>>15595878
You don't know if the entangled particles are up or down orientation. You will only know so once you observe them. Once you observe the one you have, it will collapse to, for example, up. This means you now know the other particle will collapse to down. But you can only tell the person that has the other particle it's down orientation by going there, or sending him a message, ie. using classical way to transfer information. Meaning the information that the one particle is up and one is down still traveled subliminal speed.

>>15596932
>that physicists have a retatdedly autistic definition of information
Do They even have an unit for information?

>>15595890
You need faith.

Two people experimenting under agreement.

>>15596038
However, you do know one thing. The other briefcase cannot have your red ball. It is special.

Does the red ball synchronize to the green ball as well?

>>15597504
Yes. You made one.

How can it be real is the more interesting question.

>>15597495
I can see it anon. Maybe it's like a wave as well. If we accept what this

>>15596038
Anon says here as possible. It may be we can effect other particle to entangle by means of happenstance.

>>15596968
Checking if it collapses will collapse it and you have no way of knowing if the other guy collapsed it or if you collapsed it just now by checking.

>>15596038
>No information has been transmitted,
Hasn't it been transmitted to the other briefcase that the first one was opened?

>>15597652
Yes it can.

Any effect can be tuned into a language. You just need consistency and agreement between parties.

The language is the process, the entanglement, the string. The parties points that hold that string. Because they agree to recognize it as real.

>>15597708
Pardon anon. You are right here.

You are creating the potentiality for data to appear. Not the data itself. That's why you wait. It's like sex, you don't just jump into it. You wait.

From our point of view no information is transferred, as observing the wavefunction will collapse it.

From the particles point of view ftl information is being communicated though. It is collapsing due to phenomenon acting at ftl distances away. The only problem is we can't access this ftl info. But the phenomena is still happening ftl.

I don't think it's crazy to say that with more understanding of how qm works we can find out how to extract this info

>>15598519
>>15598533
Maybe? But if it is possible, it's fundamentally impossible to know or measure, because in order to switch out the balls you have to open the briefcase.
The reason "observing" is so important is that at that scale, observing something isn't passive. You have to hit the particle with something and see what bounces back, or force it through some kind of filter.
There's no way to change, measure, or switch out the ball without first opening the briefcase. If you used magic to do it, when you open the briefcase later you'd have no way of knowing if the ball was changed or it always happened to be that way.

>>15598563
Yeah this spooky action at a distancr id still happening. Newton was smart and saw it for what it was

>>15598563
>From the particles point of view ftl information is being communicated though. It is collapsing due to phenomenon acting at ftl distances away.
What you're assuming is that measuring the one particle sets the property of the other particle.
What really collapses is OUR uncertainty of the particles. When YOU measure one particle, YOU know what the other is. And that isn't a way to transfer information ftl.

>>15596922
Autism

>>15595878
You can't control which way the collapse goes. The collapse will either be
01
or
10
But you can't pick which one.
>Sender collapses functions on a series of particles until they transmit the value they want
How will the receiver know which transmission corresponds to the "wanted" value?

>>15595883
He doesn't. He's just LARPing

>>15596099
>is there anything else in the universe that is faster than light?
A Jewish person when they spot a quarter on a sidewalk.

Tangla. Tingla. Tongla. Hoofna. Boofnahhhh.