/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15589997
It's a reasonable cutoff for debilitating Aspergers. And Mensa is just a social club for Aspies.

>>15589997
Mensa is a social club that focuses mostly on playing games. The founder intended it to be a sort of cabal that would tell world leaders what to do but instead it attracted people who were tired of being hounded by attention whoring normies that disrupt any event they attend.
Most of the arrogant assholes who try to use "I'm a member of Mensa so my opinion is correct" aren't actually members. Next time that happens, ask them to show their membership card. They likely won't have one and will claim Mensa doesn't issue membership cards, even though they do.
It's not a scam for those who use it a social outlet. For those who think it's going to give them control over society, yes, it's a "scam" though not really since it doesn't claim to be that at all.

>>15589997
So it's a club for obese women and guys who unironically wear fedoras?

>>15589997
Mensa is best described by >>15590012

As for the 130 cutoff it's mostly wrong, the real cutoff is either 115, if you go for the absolute minimum, or 125.
Linda Gottfredsson researched it and also remeber how from all the kids tested by Terman for his genius study only two of them went on to win Nobel Prizes in Physics and neither of them reached the cutoff point of 135.

>>15589997
130 is peak midwit, as evidenced by the annoying reddit atmosphere in that picture. A club for really smart people should start at 150.

>>15589997
they look like a bunch of fucking dorks

>>15589997
why are so many of them fat? I thought IQ and obesity were negatively correlated

A "high IQ society" with female members is not a high IQ society.

>>15589997
130 is smart if you score that on an impromptu test. If you practice and retake tests over and over with the set goal of getting a high score it's nothing to jerk off about. It's like measuring dick at home instead of one chance in a cold office with an ugly researcher

>>15590405
You can't get a significantly higher full scale IQ no matter how much you practice. That's the entire point of the test. A 125 might be able to get 130 with practice. But an 80 will never be able to get 130.

>>15590012
It's a money making scheme to bilk people who have done nothing in their lives but get a high IQ score.

>>15589997
has mensa ever been pressured by the woke diversity brigade to lower the admission standard to 110 for black people or are they fringe enough that nobody cares?

>>15589997
Remember kids: High IQ is no guarantee against going full retarded.

>>15589997
/sci/ will shit on Mensa because only aspies join it and no actual genius does. But they shit on them based on the results, not on the foundational ideology or methodology, not recognizing that the results are derived exactly because of the ideology and methodology. In essence, most of /sci/ agrees absolutely with the foundational mythos of Mensa. Both the creators and joiners of Mensa as well as many on /sci/ have fallen into the same delusion. They both severely overestimate the benefit of a higher IQ. They are both determinists that believe that life achievement linearly increases with IQ and hence if we were to only have gatherings of those with IQ of 130, every next person would be Einstein and Newton. This delusion falls on it's face when faced with reality. Almost no man that has placed such an importance on their IQ scores has ever achieved something great enough to earn the label of a "great genius". Mensa was doomed to begin with precisely because it is built upon the same principles that many on /sci/ promulgate. It is a deep autistic naiivety to believe these things and Mensa is a good example of why that is. And of course, the only ones to fall for it are the naiive autists. If most of the IQposters on /sci/ were given an opportunity, even though they shot on Mensa, they would end up building a society that is based on Mensa's principles to a T. They would have everything in society run by these folk and filter all the actual geniuses and productive members of society out of every position. Perhaps it's because the IQposters themselves are the ones who tested at a high IQ yet are unrecognized underachievers with no accolades worthy of a "Genius" title. Much like Mensa members. IQ =/= Genius, but aspies will disagree.

Nevertheless, they are immensely stupid, though their IQ may be high, and nothing will convince them of the deep silliness of their beliefs. I expect even this thread to soon be filled with copes and foolish posts by IQposters.

>>15590627
>Hey guys, a bunch of people are having fun over there, this is an outrage!
You sure spend a lot of time obsessed with nerds getting together and playing games.
>>15590492
Not that I've ever heard about but within Mensa there is a divide between "hospitality" and "firehouse", with the "hospitality" group being virtue signaling leftists and "firehouse" being libertarian "racists" (even though firehouse is far more diverse than hospitality, which is mostly late middle age white women). But most people don't align with either group. It's probably 10% of members for each of hospitality and firehouse, with the other 80% just wanting to play their card games.
>>15590530
LOL, genius sometimes allows one to be retarded on a whole other plane of existence. Motivated reasoning is catnip for the highly intelligent but emotionally stunted.

>>15589997
Look at how fat that picture is and ask yourself if an intelligent and competent group would look like that

>>15590758
Dude, all of western society is fat. While it is true that those of high IQ are generally less obese than those of low IQ (in the west), it's not a huge difference.

>>15589997
>Is 130 IQ a reasonable cutoff for exceptional intelligence?
Some clubs say no and have higher cutoffs.

>Is mensa a scam?
In a way I think it is. You pay money to take a test and pay for a membership. But that's not much different from other clubs, so I guess they're also scams. I've never been to a Mensa meeting, perhaps they really are a good way to meet like minded people.

>>15589997
Idk, they seem pretty based though.

Am I wigging, I thought these things were usually 150 or 160 cutoff.

130 is king of midwits, isn't that like 2.5% of the pop?

>>15591849
Well Mensa accepts above 98%, which means 2% make the cut. Around 130 IQ is sufficient.

>>15591849
There is less than 10,000 people in the entire US with an IQ above 160. And the vast majority have never gotten IQ tested and even if they did, would probably not join Mensa. Above 160, you're too busy building a cabin in the woods so you can destroy Industrial society. No time for social clubs.

>>15591976
Triple Nine Society requires 3 standard deviations above the norm, which is around 150 IQ.

>>15590269
>Nobel Prizes in Physics
ngmi

>>15590447
Yeah because the awareness of test taking strategies and the ability to seek them out scales increases with IQ. Since you don't seem to know about them, I have bad news for you

>>15589997
Why do they have big foreheads are they actually smart or just pretending

>>15592035
Triple nine accepts ACT scores. I am eligible for triple nine. I am not 150 IQ.

>>15592324
What was your score and year taken?

>>15592356
35, like 2018, 2019 something. I graduated hs 2020 so before that.

>>15592356
>>15592392
Oh, and btw, I took it twice. I got a 22 first time. a 35 the second time. So much for an objective IQ test huh.

>>15589997
a scam? hardly
a failure if you consider what the founding idea was, but they just didn't figure out that most high IQ people are not geniuses in any sense of the word.
nowadays just a club.
I haven't joined, and I don't think I will. There's no point, and for every interest of mine it would exclude contributors that didn't make the cut.

>>15589997
It was probably a decent cutoff when the world population was 2B, but no so much as the population starts getting to 10B.

>Is mensa a scam?
The picture is all women.

just imagine how jarring it must be when for the first time in your life, you arent the smartest person in the room
these people built their whole identity around their intelligence, only to have that smashed when they turn up ag the first meeting and are suddenly not at the top of the intelligence hierarchy

>>15593044
So they all quit after their first meeting?

>>15592462
Any type of private club is going to attract haters who just can't accept not everything in the world is made for them. While Mensa requires proof of being in the top 2% of score takers, what is really the limiting factor is an affinity for geeky hobbies, mostly board and card games. As far as I know, there are no Mensa chemistry labs for those who want to go the John McAfee route.

>>15589997
mensa is a social club
If you benefit from joining the club (friendship, companionship, academic/business/other networking) then it can be worth it. If you aren't making use of the social club, then it isn't.

>>15590284
This but 150 and 180

>>15590384
Yes but high IQ is highly correlated with mental illness, which is in turn positively correlated with obesity. So a lot of smart people end up fat due to shit like schizophrenia, ADHD, being an aspie, or just having a plain old food addiction.

>>15593094
sex with war
but the correct answer is that 120 are midwits and 75 iqGODS are the ones that really run the society.

>>15591690
>Think of the children!
They love that ol' chestnut, don't they? Going to guess it's because they still see themselves as children deep down and what they're really after is protecting themselves from dangerous thoughts.
>>15593083
Yeah, I don't get why we have this thread pretty much every week with people seething about the mere existence of what is essentially a gamer club. They never can explain their hate other than claiming its a scam and for the insecure (while posting anonymously, likely alone). Humans need social interactions and for those who don't fit in with Joe Average, having a social outlet should be a good thing. Weird that so many get upset by it.

>>15590284
Triple Nine Society already exists.

>>15590627
I've wondered myself if the optimal IQ isn't something around 125 instead of "the higher the better". High IQ people tend to be paranoid, delusional, outright demented due to all the patterns they constantly detect and usually end up NEET nihilists.
OTOH, people around 125 have several Nobel laureates and are smart enough to provide key insights for the advancement of science, while being stable enough to just live a normal, productive life.

>>15593174
>I've wondered myself if the optimal IQ isn't something around 125 instead of "the higher the better".
My understanding is that it is +/- 15 from the people you surround yourself with. Being at 120 in the land of 80 is no fun.

>High IQ people tend to be paranoid, delusional, outright demented due to all the patterns they constantly detect and usually end up NEET nihilists.
The highest IQ people I know, functioned well by hiding their intelligence, trying to look like anyone else in the room. One of my friends was so far off the norm it could not be hidden in the end, but then again we were all friends.

>>15592392
Well that does put you in the 99th percentile, though Triple Nine is supposed to be 99.9%.

>>15592395
SAT prep courses have received a bad rap, they supposedly only increase score by a small amount. I think it's a matter of effort put in, plus experience with how the SAT/ACT process works. Still, 22 to 35 is quite an increase. Did you work at it or was the second time just a really good day (or first one a bad day)?

>>15593754
I think it depends on if the high IQ person has a normal personality or a more autistic one. I have some relatives that are obviously very bright but seem normal until they start spurting out numbers and facts that they have no right knowing. Autistic traits are more difficult to hide.

>>15593174
I think there's an argument to be made for both the things. That 125 you're more stable and life will probably be better. But I think above 135 is likelier to inspire genius. You're right that certain mental abnormalities exist at higher rates beyond 2 st. devs IQ. But I think that is exactly what prompts the "mad genius" stereotypes. There was even a thread on that recently >>15584047 about why the great geniuses of history tend to be viewed as mentally unstable. I mean Tesla by all standards was a genius, but he didn't live a stable life at all.
However, if you are unable to become a 'great genius', that is to say earn some great achievement, which a very small number of people do, I think your atypical brain just leads you to not be very successful in life. Just typical normie jobs, less likely to be rich stable influential etc, which I think occurs more around 120-135. Where you are smarter than everybody while still being considered "normal". So 135+ becomes a detriment unless you're one of the small number of elite 135+ that ends up making some significant inventions or discovery, or something else 'great'.

Just like Terman found in his longitudinal study of geniuses 140+
>Terman had noted that as adults, his subjects pursued common occupations "as humble as those of policeman, seaman, typist and filing clerk" and concluded:
>At any rate, we have seen that intellect and achievement are far from perfectly correlated.

>>15589997
Mensa is a social club for nerds. It's been irrelevant since the internet was invented.

>>15592324
>Triple nine accepts ACT scores
I have maxed out SAT and ACT, I don't believe even 36 ACT is rare enough for admission as I knew one other in my highschool class of 600 that hit 36 and four that hit 35.

Then again high IQ societies actually accept people almost s full standard deviation below their stated cutoffs pretty routinely, as MENSA member testing has shown.

>>15593174
148 here , u r true

It's about validation. C-Suite officers at Fortune 500 companies and successful scientists do not join MENSA. They've demonstrated their intelligence in their careers. MENSA is only for people who have no other way of proving their intelligence. It's for people who have never demonstrated their supposed abilities in any meaningful way, and are doubtful that they ever will.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe intelligence is very real and important. I think Murray and Hernstein were 100% right about that. But I also believe practicing certain standardized tests can significantly improve the performance of even mediocre minds. And I suspect that's what most MENSA members have done.

>>15593174
>>15594567
I think it makes sense why if you think about why stratification by IQ even exists in the first place. It's because at higher IQs, you gain the ability to understand and learn things that somebody at a lower IQ may not be able to understand. But this kinda plateaus at the extreme end of IQ (picrel, rough hand drawn sketch). That is to say, there is very little that somebody with an IQ of 150 can learn but somebody with an IQ of 130 cannot. With an IQ of 130-135 you can practically learn and understand every subject in existence, so having an even higher IQ doesn't give you as much of an edge professionally.

Think about a hypothetical example of engineering. Why is the average IQ just 115 for engineers? For that we really need to think about what bars somebody with an IQ of 80 from becoming an engineer. For this hypothetical, let's say it's the ability to learn Calculus. lets say you can only learn basic calculus at starting an IQ of 95, and fully learn it over 105. So that means that somebody who has an IQ of, let's say 150, has no edge over somebody with an IQ of 115, because there's no more calculus to learn to enter the field.

Apply this to all fields and you learn that you exhaust most fields of study around 130-135, as there is not much that you are unable to learn at that point. Then couple this with the fact that a 130 will be a better communicator than a 150, you may find that a 130 has a competitive edge over the 150 professionally speaking. Hencewhy entry into professions declines. Just like 130 IQ bricklayer has no edge over a 90 IQ bricklayer (because there is nothing about bricklaying a 90 IQ can't learn and a 130 IQ can), a 150 IQ doctor, professor, lawyer or any other 'elite professional' has no real "intelligence" (ability to learn subject material) edge over a 130 IQ 'elite professional', but the 130 has the communication edge over the 150. So now people over 135 will be underrepresented in 'elite' fields.

>>15593174
You're right.

I have a 127iq and just told my wife our relationship is over, am staying at my parents for the foreseeable future or at least until she leaves our apartment, and am struggling at work because i'm so emotionally compromised. I almost checked myself into suicide watch the other week. I studied history at a shit university. I lucked into a decently paying career, and actually I am in like the 86th percentile of household income in my country (just by myself). I am not very good with finances. I have adhd. The IQ is probably why i'm doing decently in my career despite literally being an add sperg.

I also play the lottery.

>>15594325
Yeah it doesn't out me in 99.9% but my point was triple 9 accepts it. It says so on their website, I don't understand why.

and tbf no I didn't prep much. Not the first time, not the second time. Just material that I had learned in class, didn't spend any extra time and shit tutors were just too expensive for my broke family. The only thing I did was take a practice exam in between the two which helped a lot. The main problem on the first exam was that I ran out of time on nearly all sections. I just did some test taking practice with one practice exam and was good the next time. So more than anything, it shows that test taking ability matters a lot. I had ADHD (not diagnosed at the time, got diagnosed much later) and would have inherently had trouble with time management on exams. Even with the SATs, I had the same problem. 1180 the first time, 1560 the second, purely based on better test taking skill not increased knowledge or intelligence.

>>15594336
>I think it depends on if the high IQ person has a normal personality or a more autistic one.
It has been a few years since I last met this person but it was not a good fit with ASD or anything else. It was just practically instant learning and understanding, be it physics, software, human languages etc. At the same time there was a strong sense of stealth.

I have met quite a few I suspect are on the spectrum, including a female colleague. Asking the right questions will bring up a bit more intensity than normally expected, though she was holding back a lot. She did admit though that few understood her interests or way of thinking, but I think most people ascribe it to her having been a scientist.

>>15594665
Read the thread or at the very least learn that Mensa isn't an acronym. You look like an idiot when you do that.

>>15594567
>Terman
Aspies on Suicide watch.

>>15593174
The only thing that makes a lower IQ more optimal is that you have more like-minded company and live in a world designed for people more like yourself. High IQ people are literally surrounded by retards and live in a world made by and for retards, which causes a lot of frustration. Aside from problems caused by its rarity, there is no downside to intelligence whatsoever.

>>15594843
>1180 the first time, 1560 the second, purely based on better test taking skill not increased knowledge or intelligence.
It sounds like you're a lot more intelligent than you give yourself credit for, with the ADHD being a bit of a hinderance that you are able to work around given proper preparation.

>>15595302
Thus, the only realistic way to settle Mars, is to start with a few hundred people on the very upper reaches of the ASD spectrum.

>>15590269
>all the kids tested by Terman for his genius study only two of them went on to win Nobel Prizes in Physics and neither of them reached the cutoff point of 135
isnt that the guy who told terence he'd been for him all his life?

>>15590627
the two guys on the left look extemely based

>>15591976
>fewer

>>15593111

Anecdotally I only know a handful of fat schizophrenics

>>15595058
>Mensa isn't an acronym.
Okay, duly noted. I doubt anyone that isn't a card-carrying Mensa member would think less of me for not knowing that, but fair enough.

>>15595058
>Read the thread
I did. What did I miss?

I'm guessing I struck a nerve and you're exactly the sort of insecure dork I described--one whose only accomplishment is Mensa membership.

>>15591976
So if we imagine they were somehow taken care of, given the opportunity to study, live and work with like minded people, how would that go? Would they still head for the hills to make explosives?
I am assuming this would not be organized by a shadowy unit with undeclared military connections...

>>15590743
Absolutely zero chance that goblin is >130 iq

>Is 130 IQ a reasonable cutoff for exceptional intelligence?
\
Damn, If I knew it was That low, I'd have applied Years ago!!!!!

>>15598596
Read the thread.

>>15598807
So if we imagine they were somehow taken care of, given the opportunity to study, live and work with like minded people, how would that go? Would they still head for the hills to make explosives?
I am assuming this would not be organized by a shadowy unit with undeclared military connections...

MOST European countries seek out higher intelligence kids, and Help them in many ways, including:
putting them with others
help them find their best use on the intelligence they have - the Best field.
help them with College
Placement with career (Business/ University)

>>15598863
Please do telkl me what wonderland you live in, for that is far from the way it works here. I grew up with lots of smart people, many smarter than me, and I can assure you that the only things we got was grief.

You realise perhaps that the premise of the question was the group around 160, people who do not always connect with the 80 - 110 crowd?

>>15591083
Being obese doesn't undermine thought all that much until the mid 30s. I'd worry about it if they were fat, tired looking and in their 40s. At that point, an astute, vain, intelligence fetishist should be spending their free time on wellness instead of finding company with whom to wallow in their own decline.

The pre-30 case is that someone should notice that obesity triggers disgust at a primal level, motivating people to physiologically compelled to avoid you contaminating them. If you don't care about this or have fallen in with a group of similarly obese people who're missing this disgust trigger, then whatever.

>>15599096
What do you mean? Women with higher IQ tend to be slimmer, but men with higher IQ tend to be fatter.

>>15590269
they would if they trained to solve those monkey tests as fast as possible

>>15590269
Yup, William Shockley tested 3 times, 129, 125 and 119, Luis Alvarez was in the 120's, James Watson 124, Feynman 125 and Philip Anderson in the 130's. That's the only known IQs of nobel winners.
Shockley and Alvarez were rejected by Terman because of their low IQ scores.

>>15599513
Thats because they are a bunch if dumb whores

>>15599666
>>15599666
>>15599666
>>15599666
>>15599666
>>15599666

>>15590284
/sci/ already exists

>>15589997
One brown guy in the middle makes me laugh for some reason.

>>15589997
It was supposed to be a think tank so that people with 1 in 50 intelligence could advise world leaders.

>>15602048
The US has something like that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASON_(advisory_group)

>>15602048
>>15602980
Not even this group honestly. Thing is, the government is highly involved with all the top schools in the country. The faculty of schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Hopkins, UPenn, Caltech, Princeton, Columbia etc. serve essentially as advisors to the government on everything. At least the top faculties there. They will even employ undergrads from these schools for smaller things in government work. And I say this as somebody who went to one of these schools, there's a reason why their research grants are so large. Most projects are somehow related to the government there, even though it may not be obvious. So MENSA was moot to begin with because the government already has a pool of the most scholarly men in the country to choose from in the form of these colleges. One of my friends in mechanical engineering while I was there (a department much more involved with the military than others) said that the entire place was teeming with government officials recruiting students and faculty. Which is a statement you find to be true once you've been there long enough. Think about it historically even, almost all large government research projects happened in collaboration with these institutes. And it still happens today. Mensa was never needed.

>>15590269
>>15590269
Honestly it isn't obvious what it means to have IQ higher than 140, right?
They just measure the speed of solving those tests, but that means nothing since problem do not become qualitatively harder.

So basically scoring high points in IQ tests is the same as playing chess quickly - doesn't correlate with real intelligence at all.

>>15603086
Yup. If we use the chess metaphor, It's like winning a bullet chess match to be specific. But life is not a bullet match. It's a standard match. The other person has just enough time to make his moves, you being able to do it quicker doesn't help you much. This is moreso true for anything over 2 st devs, just redundant. Going below 2 st. devs though, the quality of the 'moves' deteriorates, so it still does matter.

>>15589997
Lmao they want you to pay for membership, and only thing you get is the card you can flash to show how smart you are. You have to have aspergers to fall for this shit.

>>15589997
I was "diagnosed" with autism and being "highly gifted". Take my word for it: be happy instead of being "right".

>>15603086
No, all what you said is wrong, your stupid

>>15603158
Read the thread.

How many in Mensa are not ASD?

>>15589997
Would feed n’ breed the plump hucow on the left

>>15603366
A really low number most likely. There's ten times more 130+ people in the US than in Mensa, so I presume only the Austistic 10% join it. Because they lack a social circle outside of mensa, rendered so by their autism and hence must find friends and partners among other aspies. If you're not autistic there is no real reason to join Mensa.