/sci/ - Science & Math

bump

Who gives a shit. Space exploration is not financially viable, give it up already.

>>1548728
Look, we just need to get to Mars so we can find some Prothean artifacts. Once we've done that we'll be making friends with all sorts of aliens and shit.

>complain overseas wars are bankrupting the country
>want to spend billions of dollars to look at rocks in space

>>1548768
>Complain about government spending $6 billion on a space program
>No complaints about two wars that have cost well over a trillion dollars
>Government was eager to blow nearly a trillion more to bail out banks and corporations

$6 billion is seriously chump change for the US government. Them deciding on where to allocate $6 billion dollars is like you trying to figure out if you want to spend 99 more cents to super size your fast food meal.

>>1548768
Looking at rocks in space doesn't kill bajillions of sandniggers and jocks fresh out of highschool.

We really need to establish our economy first, though. Hasn't ANYONE in the Senate played a civilization game?

I'm writing a letter to my rep, I'll send it by email or post in the morning.

Everyone else who pitches in gets a free bear.

>>1548791
Investing in future technology [e.g. SPACE] is one of the best ways to ensure economic survival.

Congress can't see past their pork barrel though. That kind of short-sightedness is going to ruin America.

>>1548811
Psh, name ONE economically important discovery or invention that came out of the space program.

Spoiler: You can't

>>1548815
Velcro?

>>1548815
tempur foam
aircraft anti-icing systems
medical led applications
solar power
water purification technologies

I'd also mention all that business about expanding our understanding of the Universe but I doubt someone with a mind as shallow as yours would consider that 'important'

>>1548728
ONE
MILLION
TONS
OF
PLATINUM

>>1548815
tang

>>1548839
PFftAHAHAHAHAHhahahahahaha no gtfo retard, all the important advances come from the military.

Congress should figure a way to spoil our relationship with China

1. Cold War II
2. Space race II, done by the military this time, not by useless nerds looking at rocks
3. ????
4. PROFIT!

>>1548865
Don't forget the very internet we are on would require several times as many land lines costing billions to run them over seas if we didn't have orbital sats for telecom networks. I'd rather just have a 50 million dollar sat launch or cheaper, thank you. 100 dollar a month fee for DIAL UP would be a nightmare.

Less encouraging anti-science trolls, more ideas to convince congress to vote against this shit.

>>1548880
Wouldn't be hard to massively troll China. All we'd have to do is give Taiwan a few nukes and voila, second Cold War.

>>1548815
The Apollo program jumpstarted the miniaturization of integrated circuits.

Also:
- Cordless tools
- Smoke Detectors
- Infrared thermometers
- Firefighter breathing systems

etc. etc.

>>1548907
Not to mention that the economic gain from the technology NASA has produced is far in excess of what has been spent on NASA.

Hell, the private market investments that NASA was going to make until congress shitted up the bill would probably be enough to jumpstart a space economy.

Who knows what the ROI would be on that 50 years from now.

>>1548880
Just ignore retards like this.

>>1548921
All the more reason to make every effort to get this bill to be amended or voted down. If the House were to change the bill to be more like the first draft of the Senate's NASA bill (the one approved by the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation), there'd still be something like $3 billion for commercial development, and we'd start working on a new HLV immediately instead of wasting the next decade working on the pointless Ares I.

>space exploration will be set back years, maybe decades. Humanity would barely manage to keep a presence in LEO and all hopes of expanding beyond within the next twenty years would be gone.

Really? For ALL humanity?

Guess your not counting the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Europeans, etc in with that humanity of yours.

Apparently India is set to have a maned space program by 2015 ... less than 5 years now.

>>1549327

And have you seen what those other nations have for their space programs. They are either trying to replicate present american accomplishments, or replicate 60s American accomplishemts... no advancement.

>>1546913
>>NASA deserves better!

No, NASA deserves the boot entirely for being full of shitty engineers who oversee basic problems and continual denial of extra terrestrial bull shit.

American Space Exploration Programs That Aren't Nasa deserve better.

>my face when I'm not a science major
I don't have one because I lack the technological know-how to adequately express myself through a virtual medium ;_;

Still, this is bullshit. I'll try and bug my congressman about it, but he's one of those "It cots money? Kill it." conservatives that are all the rage right now, so don't expect results.

>>1549412
>continual denial of extra terrestrial bull shit.
Wake up sheeple!

>>1549434
>but he's one of those "It cots money? Kill it." conservatives
Show him this poster.

>>1549439
Guys please, it's not aliens, it's either God or it's a ballistic north korean missile!

We all know Aliens don't and cannot exist in our universe! That's just ludicrous!

>>1549443
Wow. This is depressing. What the fuck are we doing in the desert when we have a real war to fight against our future? Do these people expect us to live on earth forever?

>>1549451
Norwegian missiles created that spiral? Oh, you have proof? Well, let's s-
>Government issue
DISINFORMATION

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

>>1549463
ITT:
Norwegian spirals are the only evidence of UFOs ever.

>>1549458
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n4EDKUB9uo

I think NASA should die. It has become nothing more than a moneysink full of fatcats who only sit around and receive a salary, occasionally sending something into space to prove they are actually doing something.

Let if fall, and create some new design bureau with actual scientists and engineers, like NASA used to be.

>>1549475
Or, you know
They don't have enough funding to do anything meaningful
NASA used to have 30+ billion as its budget back in the 60's for fucks sake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Budget

>>1549475
Agreed
>Mars Colony Landing Space Shuttle taking off
>Mars Colony Landing Space Shuttle destroyed in upper atmosphere, obliterated in seconds
>THE ENGINEERS AT NASA FORGOT TO SCREW IN THE TANKS! THOSE SILLY BOYS! DON'T WORRY, MISTAKES HAPPEN - EVEN ONES THAT COST SEVERAL BILLION DOLLARS AND DESTROY THE LIVES OF 8+ ASTOUNDING INDIVIDUALS!
>NASA then continues to do nothing but whine about how they're never getting enough funds

>>1549483
Yeah, and they always choose the most expensive and absurd designs when they have to make something, so they have an excuse to keep getting funds, do nothing and blame the lack of progress on not enough money, technical difficulties or whatever.

>>1549488
>Yeah, and they always choose the most expensive and absurd designs when they have to make something
Elaborate?

By the end of next Feb. the US won't have a maned space program and the way things are going it only might have one again by MAYBE 2017.

>>1549495
Just look at any project NASA started in the last years.

Zubrin said he could get us to Mars using little more than scrap parts, NASA insists we need to build a fuckload of orbital infrastructure, then build a huge ship using technology that doesn't even exist yet. And that was over 10 years ago. And that technology STILL doesn't exist, why? Because they had a roadmap long enough for people to lose interest in the project and cut the funding, in the meantime they had some years of safe salaries for sitting on their ass complaining.

Or just look at what the Soviets did. Korolev was known to crap out working designs in months and with next to no funding, and even competing over them with other bureaus.

People! Stop bitching about should bes and could bes. Stop whining about how great space exploration could be "if only ___" and fucking DO something about it!

Here's the letter I wrote to my Representative. I'm planning on taking it down to his local office today rather than mailing it. Feel free to use parts of it if you write one to your Representatives, though you should obviously use your own contact information and rewrite the first and last paragraphs to reflect more on your background and your district.

You can find mailing addresses and local offices for your representative on their webpage. If you don't know who your representative is you can find out here.
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

Quit your whining and do something /sci/. Apathy and inaction are to blame for the sorry state of the space program, not politicians. We are their constituents, Congress will never support a decent space policy until we TELL THEM TO!

>>1549434

>>1548810
here, it's better to try and fail than not try at all. Who knows, you might be surprised.

Have a free bear for trying.

>>1548869
Dat PLATNIUM

Got back from Loebsack's office. I was a bit nervous and worried it would turn out to be a waste of time, but the woman I spoke with actually turned out to be a big space enthusiast herself and she was more than happy to send my letter on to the Congressman along with her support.

Also, some more good news, she called up some people in the DC offices and it doesn't sound like most members of the House haven't actually read the draft yet, let alone made up their minds so now is definitely the best chance any of us will get to influence their decision.

Also, it makes you realize just how big a fucking bullet NASA dodged last week. If the House had voted on this bill last Friday it probably would have passed.

Just a quick correction - I think it's 5871, not 5781

>>1551747
Nope, it's 5781

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:1:./temp/~bdnTpP:@@@L&summ2=m&|/home/Legislativ
eData.php|

NASA, by design, is one of the main collaborators in the UFO cover-up.

Enjoy your lies peasants.

I think the main reason why NASA keeps getting the short end of the dick is because they don't consider it "important" anymore.

If they want to survive, they need to commit to something major, like going back to the moon or Mars.

Unless new methods of propulsion are devised, manned space exploration is terribly unreasonable under our economic circumstances. Robotic astronauts are our(cheaper)future.

>>1549443
Haters gonna hate.

> If they want to survive, they need to commit to something major, like going back to the moon or Mars.
Or they could just stop wasting billions on manned spaceflight.

>>1551973
The Obama and Senate Committee on Commerce Science and Technology proposals both commit billions to new propulsion research and a ridiculously awesome $7 billion dollar "game-changing" tech program (stuff like orbital refueling, closed-loop life support, inflatable habitats)

... the House bill guts that the same way it guys commercial funding.

>>1551973
Good luck getting the robots to do anything fucking useful beyond collecting raw data. You're better off sending the best heuristic systems in existence (that is, *humans*, you mong) to actually get shit done.

Maybe they can also shoot you into the Sun on the way up and kill 2 birds with one stone!

bump

>>1552227
yep because spending $20b to aircondition uninsulated tents each year is a better use of our resources

>>1548907
dont forget about re-breathers and fuel cells

What's this? /sci/ actually doing something to support science? Blasphemy!!

We as a country need to play up our strengths, look at the things we do well and ensure we remain competitive in those areas, such as science and technology research. So much of the bailouts focused on infrastructure projects, as if Americans are just going to line up for work on the highways like we did back in the Great Depression. Meanwhile, in science and technology research, an area where we have traditionally lead, we continue to fall behind. This defunding of NASA in favor of useless pork is just another example of how our politicians are content with letting America fall behind.

>>1553825
The infrastructure projects aren't even GOOD infrastructure projects.

America needs a new commercial high-speed railway connecting the east and west coast and major cities in between, coupled with a superconducting electric grid.

That would be some fucking future shit right there. Hell you could probably do both at once. Run the high-speed trains as maglevs, double the superconducting system to power both the maglev trains and the grid.

Hell if I know if it would actually work, but at least it's some actual technological achievement.

Meh. Nasa seems like a giant boondoggle in the modern age.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
98% of "Americans" won't stand up for God.
Be one of the 2% that will, copy this in your signature.

LIE-BRILS: If YOU don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand IN FRONT of them.
Socialism KILLS, AMERICA saves; GOD bless RONALD REAGAN

i'm a hArDcOrE (xXx†hXc†xXx) Christian fiRsT, AnD i b3lEve iN ev0luTion Wh3n mY MuDkIp rEaChEs Lv 18.

>>1553825
Back in the 1950s (traditional times) we had an enviable infrastructure.

>>1553825
Stop talking about it and DO something about it.

>>1553855
I'd love to stand behind our troops.
Get them back over here so I can.

>Waste billions on giant space structures that do absolutely nothing except float
>Terrorists crash them into Earth, killing hundreds of millions

Yeah, sure makes sense.

I appreciate the OP's ambition... but as this thread clearly proves /sci/ has the attention span of a hyperactive ferret. I don't think there's been more than two or three consecutive posts in this thread that haven't gone off on tangents about general government spending or ending current wars or fucking UFOs

If /sci/ cant even be trusted to stay on topic for five minutes, I certainly wouldn't count on them to actually pull together and do anything as proactive as calling congressmen... even for something as noble as saving the space program.

Sorry OP

bump

actually biological computers are in their infancy but so far have shown they cna compute much more complex problems at a quicker ratet han the most efficietn super computers today. It took like 200 PS3s of cpu to simulate rudimentary cosmological simulaitons so biological computers may be the olny otpion for advance planetary evolution simulators.

bumped because something like this deserves more attention than religion vs science thread #86920

Some useful info.

This is a list of all the Senators and Congressmen who are on the three committees that passed the drafts of the NASA bill:
The Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation (the awesome bill)
The House Committee on Science and Technology (the shitty bill)
The Senate Committee on Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies (the equally shitty bill... also the most mish-mashed committee name ever)

Obviously it's a good idea to write to every and any congressman, but if any of these people are your rep or senator, they should get special attention since they're the ones who made the initial drafts of the bill.

Key included.

>>1557796

This is one of the few moments I wish I was an american... I doubt a swede calling any of your congressmen would make a difference.

Oh well, I'll just be over on this side of the pond, enjoying Europe's only commercial spaceport.

>>1557843
If you know any Americans, you could contact them and try to get them on board.

>>1557875

I did that, so I can give myself a pat in the back.

>>1557799

oh great, my state has fucking senator maria cantwell on the committee.

HER NAME IS FUCKING CANTWELL. CANT. WELL. CANTWELL. AND WE ELECTED HER. FUCK THIS SHIT

finfag here, got my sister and her adult kids to participate

>>1557940
Hold on now, Cantwell's on the SCCST, they UNANIMOUSLY passed the Senate's first draft of the authorization bill (the good version). She's one of the good guys. :)

Fuck this shit. 6 billion dollars is a lot and Americans are spending money they don't have. Yeah, the war should go too.

FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY IT'S RIGHT HERE ARE YOU BLIND.
YOU.. YOU... DOUBLE LAYMEN.

>>1557896

>>1558133
$6 billion to create thousands of science and engineering jobs in an American space industry while drastically reducing the cost of human spaceflight.
Yeah... that's TOTALLY an irresponsible fiscal decision. That money would be much better spent on unemployment or tax breaks.

... get the fuck out of here man.

>>1558133
Fuck you, cut back 1% of the defense budget instead of completely fucking gutting space exploration.

You won't miss a few cruise missiles, I promise.

>>1548815
GPS

We're getting off topic. More focus on feasible means of saving NASA, less on debating the military budget.

Is it better to call, email, or write?

>>1558450

Do all three.

>>1558452
Good point

Also has anyone had any luck setting up face-to-faces yet? I didn't have any luck here but that'd be epic.

...but I really don't think we are remotely ready for further space exploration. We should like, maintain what we have, the international space station is really niffy, For Science and For Diplomacy, but I fear that at our current level of immaturity, we are going to start some Star Wars stepping on some alien's toe...or fight each other for territory.

Dude, new frontier is nevar the solution to problem at home...remember how America got started? Find Eden, destroy Eden.

>>1558528
You sound like an angsty teenager.

Captcha: gumption philosophy

>>1548768
>Implying funding a way is in any way financially comparable to funding a space program.

In layman's terms : Money for war > Money for space exploration

>>1558528
You can never truly be ready for something until you do it or until it happens. We will never be ready to explore beyond our near-Earth space until we get out there and start doing it.

No more philosophizing. This is a science board dammit! We either do what we can to help NASA now or we spend, or the exploration of space will be stalled for decades.

I live in Canada but this has seriously interested me, is there anything I can do to help?

Captcha: One tattled

My Congressman is Tim Bishop. I think he'll be receptive to a letter.

I'm going to write one but first I need to know the details about what all of this is about, I don't really follow congressional shit. Any links?

>>1558615
Do what this guys said, if you have any American friends see if you can't get them on board with helping out. >>1557875

>>1558623
I'll look for some links. I know they summarized all the versions of the bill on space.com, I'll see if I can find the actual HR draft as well.

Holy shit! Guys! The Senate came through! I can't believe this didn't hit the space news sites yet!

Yesterday Senator Rockefeller introduced an updated version of the Senate bill on the floor - IT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY!
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-3729

I'm still trying to find confirmation of the details but so far it looks like:
Yes on an extra shuttle flight in 2011
Yes on extending ISS operation through 2020
$2.6 billion for Commercial spaceflight over the next 3 years (a little short of the $3.3b proposed by the White House, but not bad)
And it looks like they're sticking to their guns about starting development of an new HLV instead of continuing Constellation!!!

All it has to do now is pass a vote in the House and Obama will sign the bill!

Keep it up /sci/! Tell your representatives NO on H.R.5781, YES on S.3729!

This calls for a celebration! Drinks all around!

Uhm, I am not sure if I missed something, but as I read in section Sec. 101 of HR 5781, there is to be $19 billion allocated to NASA for the 2011 fiscal year and increasing through 2014. What did I miss?

>>1558934
All the versions of the bill, the WH, the House, and the Senate, all allocate $19 billion a year or so to NASA for the next couple years... the difference is the House wants to put huge portion of all of NASA's funding over that time into continuing Constellation whereas the Senate version wants to spread that out into developing a new heavy launch vehicle, helping grow an American space industry, r&d for new technology, new robotics missions, etc.

The Senate wants to spread its money out on several good bets, the House wants to go all-in on what it thinks is a "sure thing"

Im so happy

>>1559020

Could you point out which sections of the bill reference this as it seems to pretty generally distribute the funding from a quick read-over...

>>1559024
We're not out of the woods yet, the House still has to vote on it.

Ugh... it's going to be a looooooong month waiting for them to get back from the recess... I'm going to wear a hole in the carpet with all the pacing I'm going to do.

YES!

bump

I still see everyone complaining about a budget cut yet the actual bill increases NASA's budget by $2 billion. And what does the OP have against the Ares program?

>>1559085
All the versions of the bill increase NASA's budget... some allocate that money better than others. Considering that after 6 years and billions spent on development, work on the Ares family has only produced a single launch of an SRB dressed up to look like the (un)finished product, and that Ares won't produce a LEO capable rocket for 8-9 years, or a past-LEO capable rocket for 15-20, the question you should be asking is "why wasn't it axed sooner?"

We might just make a difference after all!

bump

if nasa agrees to disclosure I'll donate personally

HELLO HOUSTON THIS IS DISCOVERY
WE STILL HAVE THE ALIEN SPACECRAFT, UH..
ON V.F.R.

March 13, 1989

>>1559819
....... get out

>>1559910
no

I wonder how much federal funding goes into multi-track drifting, each year.

>>1559819
HERP UFOS DERP!!11!

Let's keep it up /sci/, with this new bill already passed by the Senate, Congress has done half our work for us. All we have to do now is convince the House

Don't worry, the Chinese will get us off Earth.

I think I found the text of the bill

http://commerce.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=20a7a8bd-50f4-4474-bf1d-f0a6a8824b01

This might just be the draft though, not the version passed on the 5th

I'm surprised the news of the senate bill passing hasn't gotten more attention.

I mean... I know most people don't give a fuck about NASA but I haven't even seen it mentioned on most space news websites.