/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15546828
The recent rise in glyphosate application to corn and onions crops correlates positively with increased death rates due to Alzheimer's disease

>>15546873
Error: Our system thinks your post is spam. Please reformat and try again.

>>15546873
presumably you mean the censored east asian legume that we're not allowed to discuss rather than onions

>>15546873
Correlation is not causation most of the time.

>>15546910
>most of the time.
do you have a single fact to back up that statement?

>>15546828
DUMBFUCK

>>15546828
it's safe and effective

>>15546873

>>15546968
The man-made horrors of "science" are terrible for mental well-being.

>>15546968
I imagine it gets much worse after the cutoff

>>15546828
No, it fucks up suplhur processing in the body and supplements glycine

stephanie seneff's research is opening my eyes to how bad it is for us

>>15546873
how naive
other crops have the modded gene now too
>maize
>basedbean
>sugar beat
>alphalpha
>wheat
>rapeseed/canola

it's in apparently in everything except certified non gmo organics....

>>15546990
No shit. It feels like scientists are working 24/7 to destroy life as we know it.

>>15546968
EPIC win!

>>15546968
I assume people try to use this to show that correlation is not causation but I think it paints the opposite picture.

>>15546828
>constantly spray plants with insecticide so strong that they have to be genetically modified to prevent them from dying to it
>feed the resulting fruits to humans who have not been genetically modified to withstand said insecticide
What could possibly go wrong?

>>15547064
>insecticide
>plants

>>15546873
I can think of a couple of things correlated to glyphosate application

>>15546828
Did you ever see an glyphosate sun set, well i did occasionally every day its of grand magnificence.

>>15547064
>constantly spray plants with insecticide so strong that they have to be genetically modified to prevent them from dying to it
What? If you think this is how GMO works I can understand why you think this way.

someone post some actual research I don't care if it's a video or a paper just post something actually informative so that the reactive retards don't just sit around making dumb posts and word jokes

>>15547069
>>15547073
Yes, I fucked up in forgetting exactly what glyphosate is, but if you just swap "insecticide" with "herbicide" in my post it works just as well and is just as awful. Though crops ARE also sprayed with insecticides and other types of pesticides and it's just as bad, too.
>but why would crops have to be made resistant to weed killer and bug killer? they only kill weeds and bugs!
If you believe this then by all means season all your food with a spritz of Roundup and Raid at the dinner table every night and let me know how it goes. After all, you're not a weed or bug, right? What's the harm?

>>15547079
You got called out for being a retard for using the wrong terminology
don't try to double down on it and insult us for pointing it out. actually educate yourself a little

>>15547094
I admitted to fucking up the terms, but I stand by the intent of what I said.

>>15547099
No, you insulted us. and then went off on a short nondescript tirade

>>15547074
Just read the mandatory chemical use and PPE datasheets for roundup. The substantial negative health effects for human exposure are disclosed to farmers when they buy herbicides and pesticides.

>>15547074
https://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/2021/GabeBrownTalk.pdf

>>15547106
You mean this? It contains no mention of the pathway seneff proposes

>>15547103
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, anon. Pesticides are still dangerous to human health.

Europe is too far north for a good corn crop, this decision was made strictly for the purpose of growing s o y
>eurofaggots aren't sissified enough yet, lets put them on am even more estrogen rich diet
>t. EU jews

>>15547113
garden work has anyway an higher output.

>>15547113
>>15547181
multicultural addable plants don't drain the same minerals from the soil. you also care more cause its just for you.

>>15547094
He's right. Season your food with herbicide and pesticide and let us know how you feel after a week.

>>15547112
It wouldn't mention specific pathways because those are unimportant for the purposes of handling and disposal. What it does say is that it's unsafe for storage near food or water, damages the mucus membranes of the body directly, and cannot be allowed to enter groundwater or surface water (which you might notice is unavoidable in the common use-case, and yet it's still a mandatory warning).

>>15547110
This is an exceptionally good breakdown of the risks. I hope it answered OP's question.

>>15547175
glyphosate is often used as a dessicant spray at the end of the crop season to make it dry out faster and be easier to harvest this is irrelevant to the use with GMO crops

>>15546828
No. MSG is unhealthy too, that's why they're always masking it under other ingredients. Now go jump off a bridge onto pavement.

>>15547005
I forgot cotton so you're actually wearing it too.

>>15546828
I though the EU was banning agriculture like Africa banned it and subsequently had a famine after.

"[We dont need farmers, we buy iur food from grocery stores.]"
Who's the smart ones now?

>>15547094
This isnt a game where you get to play a referee and kick out people if they make a mistake they already recognize. Yes, gliphosate is not an insecticide but an herbicide, so what? The argument doesnt really change much. Now fuck yourself insufferable asshole.

>>15547811
>"[We dont need farmers, we buy iur food from grocery stores.]"
I'm pretty sure a lot of people who grew up in big cities unironically believe this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE50qwucnrY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPymGAzrz8w

I'm starting to believe glyphosate should probably be banned since it's even in the rain now and that I should probably start consuming sourcrout or someother fermented foods that can break it down.

>>15546828
trust the nice scientists. its so safe, you can eat it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcXXbuR244
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWM_PgnoAtA

>>15546873
well, killing old people is beneficial to the survival of our species so that's a step in the right direction it seems.

>>15548267
This was like a decade ago I imagine he's changed his perspective on glyphosate since then

>>15546873
well there seems to be a connection to b12 production maybe that's part of it?

>>15547266
I found it here.
https://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/

>>15548267
>You can drink a whole glass with no problems!
>Okay, so do it.
>No, I'm not stupid.
L O L

>>15548316
He said people tried and failed to suicide with glyphosate

>>15548391
That only makes him look worse.
>Drinking glyphosate can't kill you, and that's proven by people who try to kill themselves with it and fail, and that's why you'd have to be STUPID to even THINK about drinking it! Because of how safe it is!

>>15548400
It shows that he's looking at the extreme example instead of chronic effects.
try and find when that interview was made.

>>15548424
It seems to be from 2015: https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2015/03/27/no-its-not-safe-to-drink-weed-killer-on-camera-but-who-cares/?sh=3c313d754073

Pic related is the part of the article that shows drinking glyphosate will indeed physically harm you and that he was retarded for claiming you can drink a quart of glyphosate with no ill effects.

How do Eurofags feel about having some unelected bureaucrat in a foreign country saying its OK to spray glyphosate all over your home?

>>15548856
Europoors like being controlled and told how the world is and isn't by a higher power. They will always do what the nice scientists say, even if it repeatedly fucks them over.

>>15548856
>>15549198
ironically the us has the worst glyphosate exposure levels on eartth.
just look at all of the gmo roundup ready crops

>>15549201
not from ameriland (although i wish i were)

>>15549201
>america sucks!!!
>i hate america
>thats why its ok that europe is being turned into a clone of america

>>15550382
I genuinely don't understand why. Like when the woke madness began in America I thought the Dutch were too down to earth for such an ideology to take hold, yet here we are...

>>15550396
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6rk1mYiOAw
I'm not a fan of James Lindsay but this is a somewhat decent summary of the cause
it's a marxist ideology of seizing the means of production applied to the cultural drivers of a society.

>>15550468
Thanks for sharing anon.

>>15550396
>I thought the Dutch were too down to earth for such an ideology to take hold
This man was literally assassinated 9 days before he could be elected into office in 2002
https://is2.4chan.org/wsg/1688437879670995.webm
>>>/wsg/5166883
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Pim_Fortuyn

Can GMOs replace Herbicide, if herbicides like the OP are tied with Alzheimer's Disease deaths?

>>15551099
>Can GMOs replace Herbicide
One of the huge glyphosate problems is that they used gmo's resistant to it

>>15551112
>huge glyphosate problems is that they used gmo's resistant to it
Was hoping to create GMO'd broadleaf plants and grasses that don't harm crops. Eliminating the need for glyphosate and the like. Is such a thing possible or am I talking out of my ass here? Or was that tried too and they were resistant as well?

>>15551099
>remove the need for glyphosate just in time for the GMO plants to cause cancer on their own

>>15551158
>GMO plants to cause cancer on their own
How would that happen?

>>15551159
Let's fuck around and find out.

>>15547079
>Yes, I fucked up in forgetting exactly what glyphosate is, but if you just swap "insecticide" with "herbicide" in my post it works just as well and is just as awful
No it doesn't, that's just not what GMO is or is for dumbfuck.

>is it safe to use a photosynthesis midproduct as fertilizer for plants that also kills bugs?

>>15551223
Literally the first link on a web search:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26296738/
>Genetically modified (GM) crops have been and continue to be a subject of controversy despite their rapid adoption by farmers where approved. For the last two decades, an important matter of debate has been their impact on pesticide use, particularly for herbicide-tolerant (HT) crops. Some claim that these crops bring about a decrease in herbicide use, while others claim the opposite. In fact, since 1996, most cultivated GMOs have been GMHT crops, which involve the use of an associated herbicide, generally glyphosate.
Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about. They make GMO crops that are herbicide resistant so that they can spray herbicide all over them and kill the weeds without killing the crops.

>>15547064
Glyphosate is poisonous to plants, not humans. Sales reps used to drink a cup of Roundup to show customers how harmless it was. If anything the danger is from making food more affordable and filling the planet with midwits.

>>15551357
Glyphosate targets structures in plant cells that also exist in gut microbes found in humans. It can fuck up your microbiome which can in turn fuck up your overall health.

>>15551357
>Sales reps used to drink a cup of Roundup
If anyone claimed to do this then it was a scam. The insert explicitly notes the dangers of ingestion.

>>15551233
>(((pubmed)))
ok

>>15551377
Take your pick of preferred source, ignorant goalpost-mover. I cannot possibly imagine why you're trying to deny the existence of herbicide-tolerant GMOs that have existed for decades.

>>15547055
that's because you're so convinced that science le bad you also actually convince yourself that that graph is meaningful

>>15551121
>Was hoping to create GMO'd broadleaf plants and grasses that don't harm crops.
the fuck does this mean?

>>15546828
Pretty sure research into the dangers of big agriculture is frowned upon. But yea toxic reports on animals don't look good chief :/ Not to mention the increase in cancer amongst farmers

>>15551583
That we share a board with people who are ignorant of a topic they're pontificating about who will then angrilly react to your attempt to correct them with more confused nonsense.

>>15546900
Its been 5 years and the meme filter is still in place after the meme has died and its fucking discussion up senpai

>>15551373
That's one mechanism another is as a mineral chelater preventing their absorption by the body or binding to minerals and actiing as an artificial transporter that then debinds in places the body didn't evolve them to get to.

>>15546828
Yesterday Bret Weinstein made a podcast about the danger of atrazine (herbicide that is endocrine disrupting for frogs and stays in the water for decades), the refusal of mainstream media and institutions to admit that it might be dangerous for humans and the lack of proper research of the safety for humans.

>>15547110
Glyphosate Increases Malaria Spread through
Mosquitoes*
>*Daniel FQ Smith et al. Plos Biology 2021 19(5): e3001182. Glyphosate inhibits melanization and increases susceptibility to infection in insects
• Melanin traps and kills invading pathogens
• Melanin production rises in response to infection
• Highly reactive molecules produced as intermediates in
melanin synthesis destroy the invader.
• Glyphosate suppressed several enzymes involved in
the synthesis of melanin
• Mosquitoes exposed to glyphosate were less able to
control Plasmodium infections -> better vectors for
infection (malaria)

interesting piece what are the implications of melanin on immunity?

>>15550497
Assassination of Pim Fortuyn is contentious because the normie narrative is that the killer is just a lunatic; not deliberately hired by the regime to end Pim's rise to power. It has not led to significant distrust in the government. To add further context to Dutch politics: the theoretical ideals of ex-prime minister Rutte's party are opposed to a lot of the WEF-agenda, yet they've been dancing to Schwab's tune for a while now. The farmers party are not what they seem either. That's why I doubt that voting for any party or person can make a difference anymore.

>>15551825
There never democratic political solutions, it's just a delaying tactic until you're exhasusted and too divided to properly fight back in an effecrive and organised way.

>>15551828
Absolutely. I've come to the realization that even intellectual debates like this thread, the discussions we have and the problems we solve at our workplace, the breakdown and replacement of consumer products, the scarcity of good quality food, the digitization of services and much more...all geared to keep us busy and rob our energy. But the most horrifying thing is: if I tell this to someone IRL they won't acknowledge it and most people online are still caught up in the culture war. It's a nightmare, like doubting your own sanity when visiting a loony bin.

>>15551884
You want to hear a really insidious one I came across a while back?
Episodic stories like cartoons. Nothing ever changes it just resets again and again.
It conditions the mind to not embrace change or really do anything.

>>15551902
>Episodic stories like cartoons.
that's a very good way to put it

>>15551902
>You want to hear a really insidious one I came across a while back?
>Episodic stories like cartoons. Nothing ever changes it just resets again and again.
>It conditions the mind to not embrace change or really do anything
Society does seem to function that way. Every moment we re-create the same patterns. People play a particular role and when I tell them: that director you complain about is only a director because we think so and treat him as such they go blank. It does not compute that right now we can treat a billionaire like a hobo and that's the end of him. His power is based on our perception. Yet we insist on continuing the scripts that hurt us. We want a Game of Thrones society instead of Pokémon, Zelda, Animal Crossing or similar colorful, peaceful, natural world.

While some uses of glyphosate seem abusive like its use with roundup-ready crops, it also has some important uses in no-till farming, which is generally considered to be better for the environment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-till_farming

>>15552037
no till is over dependent on sprays

>>15546828
Man you wouldn't believe how safe glyphosate is. These schizos just don't want you to have any so they can have it all for themselves.
I eat at least a barrel of the stuff everyday and let me tell you I have never felt better in my entire life.
I can practically see the energy of the universe flowing around me thanks to this stuff. Eat up but don't tell the schizos I let you in on the secret ;) I love Glyphosate. LOVE IT.

>>15552037
Or you could just not use glyphosate and still do no-till farming and it would be even BETTER for the environment.

>>15552037
"some uses" nigga literally every use for glyphosate is abusive. This shit is used to kill wheat early to harvest. Yes, farmers will spray their OWN WHEAT intentionally to dry it out before they harvest it because it's easier than buying wheat which is well adapted to the environment it's supposed to be in.

Of course this is all conjectural talk because weeds are rapidly evolving glyphosate resistance across the board.

>>15552109
Who could have foreseen that happening...

>>15552109
>weeds are rapidly evolving glyphosate resistance across the board
INCREASE THE DOSE!

>>15548502
How the fuck do you even get 80 people to INTENTIALLY drink RoundUp as a dataset? This is insane.

Can we get 100 people to ingest 1kg of aspartame to end the debate as to whether it's dangerous or not?

>>15552123
You wanna know the truth? If weeds develop resistance to an herbicide, all they do is just dump more of it on there, or dump multiple herbicides at once. Then you get super weeds resistant to like 10 different herbicides running around, while they just band-aid the solution by dumping more. No wonder 90% of Americans have glyphosate in their urine, and to say nothing about the effects in mammals, it has proven, PROVEN as in incontestable, negative effects in fish/amphibians.

This is how we got massive farming conglomerates. Idiot farmers started overusing herbicides/pesticides, resistance developed, then all the small time farmers went out of business after pesticide/herbicide prices skyrocketed, and then only the multiple thousand acreage corporations could survive because of economies of scale. Farming is just a shitshow at the moment, and everybody's scrambling to find a solution to the growing problem of resistance, not a whole lot of answers there beyond dumping predators/parasites of the pests.

>>15552130
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VECljlG--gE

>>15551783
>discussion

>>15552134
The solution is regenerative farming. You won't have a problem with weeds if you rotate animals and plants around so that the soil is always refreshed and balanced and optimized and doesn't make an ideal environment for weeds. Just like how you can fight a yeast infection with antibiotics or by reducing excessive carbohydrate intake thereby not feeding the overgrown yeast microbes in the first place.

>>15552158
vegans will find issue with this

>>15552158
People are betting on integrated pest management, but I'm skeptical of that myself. The biggest problem at the moment is that pesticides/herbicides are essentially scorched earth tactics. Sure, you kill off the plants/insects, but you kill off the things that prey upon and keep the pests in check even more, so after a while they essentially become a worse problem than when you started. Then farmers see yields are dropping because they're losing the war, and they have to use more land, which then causes desertification, then you get the droughts and bipolar weather and such and the topsoil blows away, then you have to dump more fertilizer which runs off and kills fish with algae blooms, etc.

A big lie is that the American dustbowls "ended" when in reality they never did. The topsoil is still slowly eroding, some years more than others of course.

There's a book called Iirc "farmers for 40 centuries" about chinese historical agriculture

>>15551825
>the theoretical ideals of ex-prime minister Rutte's party are opposed to a lot of the WEF-agenda, yet they've been dancing to Schwab's tune for a while now.
controlled opposition

Glyphosate negatively affects gut microbiome, supposedly

>>15552158
Regenerative farming is a meme

>>15553004
>t. monsanto monocrop shill

>>15553012
No, monocropping is worse than regenerative farming. The regenerative farming crowd pretends that livestock balance vegetable agriculture, when the reality is that we use 50 million acres just to grow the hay we feed to livestock. It's all handwaving and bullshit, but not nearly enough bullshit to make a real difference.

>>15546968
Just the lizard scum keeping down mankind.

>>15551357
Wrong. You are so stupid and ignorant you can only work as a corporate shill.

>>15551233
Wrong you stupid moron. GMO crops are designed to weaken mankind by sabotaging food production.

>>15546828
No, and in a fair world anyone involved in the creation of that trash would be flayed and boiled alive.

>>15553056
Why didn't you just say that's what you meant? I don't disagree with this.

>>15553019
Polycropping > Monocropping

>>15553019
>when the reality is that we use 50 million acres just to grow the hay we feed to livestock
Most livestock where I am are grazed on grassy but untillable mountainsides.

>>15553068
Yes, but polycropping does not mean growing a monocrop field and replacing it with cows for a year or two out of every 5

>>15553072
Irrelevant. They are supplied with hay from off site. Instead of growing hay we could have grown 50 million acres worth of more food. Regenerative agriculture is a complete joke, especially considering that we don't even reuse a significant portion of our own manure.

>>15553085
>Instead of growing hay we could have grown 50 million acres worth of more food.
Except that humans need meat to thrive and there's plenty of waste from human food crops that are fed to animals. Unless you're telling me you eat corn cobs and the entire stalk and leaves with your corn?

>>15553085
>Irrelevant. They are supplied with hay from off site.
Hay is the refuse from the production of human foods like wheat and corn. We only eat the seeds of the wheat plant, but we don't throw away the hay (stalks). The stalks feed cows.

>>15553093
That's straw, retard. Hay is alfalfa and grasses grown for animal feed.

>>15553089
Hay is not the waste from crops, retard. Your fantasy is nonsense.

>>15553109
I never said it was. Hay is not the only thing fed to animals and without animals we'd have a hell of a lot of waste we can't dispose of in any useful way.

>>15553019
yeah I'm an ag graduate, I figured salatin and the rest of that crowd were probably caught in some bullshit. a few interesting ideas but they seem really not to understand nutrient cycling.
Still you can grow hay on a lot of land types you could never use for direct to human crops and grass can work as a good break crop in the rotation.

still everything amounts to some form of nutrient mining.

>>15553115
Nonsense. You can compost agricultural waste or use it directly on fields as a mulch which simultaneously helps save water. Your narrative is full of holes.

>>15553132
>grass can work as a good break crop in the rotation
And while there's grass on the field, why not cows to eat the grass and add some nice healthy shit to it while the chickens mix it down into the soil?

>>15553097
They make roundupready alfalfa/lucerne now
glyphosate is in fucking everything it seems

>>15553132
Alfalfa fixes nitrogen so it would make the soil way more fertile.

>>15553132
I'm not saying that animals have no place in agriculture, but the regenerative farming advocates are completely full of shit. The only nutrients livestock contribute to land is the nutrients they were fed minus the nutrients that were harvested from their products. Growing hay as mulch provides more nutrients to crops as manure made from the same amount of hay, and even if we were recycling all of our sewage and the manure from our livestock there would still be losses that need to be supplemented. Because those losses eventually end up in the ocean, those supplements either take the form of energy intensive fertilizers, such as phosphate rock, or compost made from sea life.

>>15553142
Usually because early season pasture grows like crazy so if you tried to control it via grazing you would be left with rank swards.
I like some of the work the mob grazers were doing research on, longer cycles better soil, not so suitable for intense italian/westerwold ryegrass but that's why you have to be flexible with hay or silage cutting

>>15553142
Because you have to feed them with hay grown off site

>>15553144
That doesn't surprise me, but it's really unfortunate. Currently I'm living on land that was used to grow hay several decades ago and there are still healthy stands of alfalfa growing all over despite all the native plants competing with it.

>>15553153
>the only way to farm is to specialize and outsource everything
I don't think so, Tim.

>>15553146
Well that doesn't mean as much as you seem to think there are a dozen or more legume crops with as much nitrogen fixing ability as lucerne/alfalpha

>>15553159
...Okay? But if I want to raise cattle and improve the soil I'll grow alfalfa, not goybeans.

>>15553155
I was reading Seneff's work a few of her papers seem to involve the study of deer fawns and the effects of high glyphosate exposure.
I couldn't figure it out at first but then I remembered when I got into reading and listening to american deer habitat guys they were recommending clearing trails and making nest sites with glyphosate and persistent herbicides along with these feeding areas that I guess were alfapha and probably roundupready too?

>>15553157
Buy a farm and find out.

>>15553160
Are you being intentionally retarded or just ignorant?
There are a number of legume species, medics, sanfoins, trefoils, vetches, beans etc, etc you can use depending on your conditions and needs.

Nitrogen isn't even what I'm talking about when I say the nutrient mining issue since there are so many options to replenish soil nitrogen content, Phos and Potash are two of your biggest headaches not to mention aluminum and the ph problems

>>15553160
So.ybeans require more nitrogen than they fix and so they deplete soil of nitrogen.

>>15553161
I really hate shit like that. You'd think people would realize that these systems that have been functioning fine for millennia would continue to work fine if people didn't insist on fucking with it.

>>15553172
It's the hubris of modern man. Everything has to be fucked with and optimized, you can't just let nature run its course. In the process we just fuck everything up by repeatedly over-correcting in one direction and then another.

>>15553172
Could you be a little more specific about what you mean here, deer habitat creation is actually quite a fascinating topic part of it involves emulating the destruction of a tornado creating multiple layers of leaf browse while directing animals along geographic landmarks most applicable to the preferences of the different social clusters that make up a community of deer from the big old bucks to the single does and dos with fawns at foot they all need to be accounted for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBz_2CYifsA

Another possibility for exposure is that the deer strayed onto cropland and became exposed to glyphosate that way since the number of guys doing active deer habitat management is quite low and geographically restricted

>>15553177
True. It's damn disappointing.

>>15553206
Deer habitat creation happens naturally and the only reason to artificially create more would be to offset habitat destruction which could be avoided by not destroying the habitats in the first place.

>>15553213
Which is why it's fascinating, you need a serious understanding of the ecology.

>>15553206
see 20 minutes into the vid he mentions the roundupready alfalfa

>>15553234
You don't understand, we HAVE to introduce GMOs and spray everything with glyphosate to properly mimic a deer's natural living conditions!

>>15553242
don't feel so smug these guys are pretty smart they're just not aware of the risks around the chems the issue is structural

>>15547734
particularly for wheat

>>15550468
>I'm not a fan of James Lindsay
You should be

>>15547734
think of the tradeoff here
dessicate the crop vs natural drying that leads to higher aflatoxin levels
not as easy a choice as you think

>>15553226
I have a good understanding of ecology and a guaranteed way of maintaining habitats for wildlife is not to fuck with those habitats. If those habitats are disturbed then the best way to restore them is to stop fucking with the habitats rather than to fuck with them more. This shit is like a slapstick sketch where the clumsy friend makes some mistake and destroys the whole room trying to fix everything that goes wrong from him trying to fix the things that went wrong.

>>15553250
That sounds like the opposite of being pretty smart to me.

>>15553295
yeah so when did you discover the risk profile of glyphosate?

>>15553300
When the concept was explained to me. How anyone fails to make the connection that something that kills living things is bad for living things is beyond me. I learned about it in more detail iny highschool environmental science class when we discussed how it breaks down into recalcitrant chemicals, negatively affects the proportions of good fungi to bad fungi, the fact that you find fewer worms in soil treated with it, the fact that it gets into the food, ect.

Yet another example of behind-the-times europeans adopting American technology
>there is no modern european technology that has been adopted by America
Why is contemporary Europe so low IQ?

>>15554467
All taught that we are the issue/problem from history.
No one striving for anything apart from cringe like diversity and net-zero buzzwords

>>15554663
But Americans still make shit though. Also it’s just because most Europeans have no drive and if you strive for anything more then the mundane they hate you also (I’m probably making this up)

But more importantly it’s because you guys get to much off time and benefits so you don’t strive to get in a better place in life. In Americana you NEED to get to the next level or you give up into a sort of half depression bwhahaha

>>15553293
You have to understand the ecolopgy and behaviour in order to manage the land for other uses in this case the guys want to encourage deer for hunting.

>>15546828
It's killing the bees (IMHO).

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1803880115

>>15554736
Then they should stop fucking with the land. Do you know what's guaranteed to drive deer away from your land? Tromping around felling trees and spraying poison everywhere to kill off all the food they eat.

>>15555396
And those guys know more about this than you so get off your high horse.

The point I originally tried to make was about how ubiquitous dangerous practices can become that eventually with hindsight people recognise.

If you want another example consider lead, asbestos or EMR.

>>15546828
no
/thread

>>15546828
>is spraying all your food with an antibiotic good for you???
not really, no

>>15546926
It's probably easier to list corelations to things, therefore they outnumber causations.

>>15555992
Causation is correlation plus certainty.

>>15555996
Since you add something, it can only be less common. Purely mathematically speaking.

>>15555894
They clearly don't. They're fucking around in a vain attempt to make nature "more productive" using an arbitrary metric for "productive" without considering any of the consequences. You can keep jerking them off if you really feel the need, but they're not clever just because you want them to be.

>Lead
We have known that lead is bad for you since the Romans. Same with mercury, arsenic, and other poisons grifters have used as "medicine" throughout the centuries.

>asbestos
The health effects of asbestos were known and ignored for decades in the pursuit of profit. This is the same case as glyphosate and leaded gas.

>EMR
>Hurr durr, 5G gives you cancer and makes your penis fall off!!1

>>15556070
My point and I keep trying to reiterate but you ignore is the ubiquitous use of a normalised substance.
It's toxic only to those aware that it is, otherwise it's just useful.

How many similar toxins around us just like that that we aren't aware of.
Of course you dismiss the emr issue as schizo babble.

>>15556231
And my point is that when the "useful" substance is "useful" because it makes things die then it's clearly toxic.

>Of course you dismiss the emr issue as schizo babble.
NOOO!!1 ALL EMR HAS TO BE DANGEROUS BECAUSE MUH MICROWAVE AND MUH X RAYS!

>>15556384
Stop.
Get back to the glyphosate.

>>15556394
We never stopped talking about it. It's bad for you and that should not come as a shock to anyone because its purpose is to kill things.

>>15546828
>>15546873
>>15546876
>>15546900
>>15546910

>Glyphosate infiltrates the brain and increases pro-inflammatory cytokine TNFα: implications for neurodegenerative disorders

Background
Herbicides are environmental contaminants that have gained much attention due to the potential hazards they pose to human health. Glyphosate, the active ingredient in many commercial herbicides, is the most heavily applied herbicide worldwide. The recent rise in glyphosate application to corn and onions crops correlates positively with increased death rates due to Alzheimer’s disease and other neurodegenerative disorders. Glyphosate has been shown to cross the blood–brain barrier in in vitro models, but has yet to be verified in vivo. Additionally, reports have shown that glyphosate exposure increases pro-inflammatory cytokines in blood plasma, particularly TNFα.

Methods
Here, we examined whether glyphosate infiltrates the brain and elevates TNFα levels in 4-month-old C57BL/6J mice. Mice received either 125, 250, or 500 mg/kg/day of glyphosate, or a vehicle via oral gavage for 14 days. Urine, plasma, and brain samples were collected on the final day of dosing for analysis via UPLC–MS and ELISAs. Primary cortical neurons were derived from amyloidogenic APP/PS1 pups to evaluate in vitro changes in Aβ40-42 burden and cytotoxicity. RNA sequencing was performed on C57BL/6J brain samples to determine changes in the transcriptome.

>>15556580
Results
Our analysis revealed that glyphosate infiltrated the brain in a dose-dependent manner and upregulated TNFα in both plasma and brain tissue post-exposure. Notably, glyphosate measures correlated positively with TNFα levels. Glyphosate exposure in APP/PS1 primary cortical neurons increases levels of soluble Aβ40-42 and cytotoxicity. RNAseq revealed over 200 differentially expressed genes in a dose-dependent manner and cell-type-specific deconvolution analysis showed enrichment of key biological processes in oligodendrocytes including myelination, axon ensheathment, glial cell development, and oligodendrocyte development.

Conclusions
Collectively, these results show for the first time that glyphosate infiltrates the brain, elevates both the expression of TNFα and soluble Aβ, and disrupts the transcriptome in a dose-dependent manner, suggesting that exposure to this herbicide may have detrimental outcomes regarding the health of the general population.

>Glyphosate also seems to exert a significant toxic effect on neurotransmission and to induce oxidative stress, neuroinflammation and mitochondrial dysfunction, processes that lead to neuronal death due to autophagy, necrosis, or apoptosis, as well as the appearance of behavioral and motor disorders.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9101768/

What have you found on the link between glyphosate and cobalumin/vitamin b12 deficiency?

>>15556603
>>15556595
>>15556580
https://rdcu.be/dgBR6

lmao at the anit-glyphosate schizos chimping out in this ITT thread

>>15556561
>because its purpose is to kill things.
Europeans are already suicidal, they're importing millions of immigrants with the intention to destroy their own nations and culture

>>15557359
>they're importing millions of immigrants with the intention to destroy their own nations and culture
For once in your life try to notice who the "people" actually importing them are

it good 4 u
drink the glyphosaid

>europeans don't glyphosate dey food
cringe!

glyphosate is the trade name of a synthetically produced plant auxin which is a common and ubiquitous plant hormone which humans have been exposed to in their diet and environment for the entire span of human evolution.

When applied to crops in the correct dosage and using the correct handling protocols, glyphosate applied to plants enters plants and cuases them to overproduce in the cells leading to cell death of the plant.

The plant hormone has no effect on human beings. "Glyphosate undergoes little metabolism and is excreted mostly unchanged in the feces and secondarily in the urine. " This is to be expected as it has been tested in vivo for millennia in human beings as they encountered and ate plant material.

The study described giving lab mice heroic doses of glyphosate in a controlled environment with the intention of causing mortality to study the effects of acutely large doeses of pure glyphosate in the mouse model biology.

A human would have to ingest heavy cartons of pure glyphosate straight from the bottle or injected directly into the bloodstream for a comparable analysis.

tl;dr:
Just another shitty troll thread on /sci/

>>15558026
Read the thread, we're discussing gut microbes

>>15558026
Wrong on every count
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate

>>15558026
A coupon for $1.00 off Roundup® Ready-To-Use Weed & Grass Killer III Sure Shot® Wand has been added to your account on Roundup.com! Use code 5HILL to redeem the discount!

>>15557381
This, the overwhelming majority of Europeans want immigrants out and fully half of them believe that "the great replacement" so-call conspiracy theory is being executed currently regardless a massive media campaign intended to reassure Europeans that it isn't. The fact that this massive overwhelming majority of Europeans are unable to elect government officials who represent the mainstream point of view is proof that European elections are all rigged by the unelected traitors that are carrying out the great replacement plan.

>>15546828
It's bad and so is MSG and most GMO. GMO isn't done for your benefit, it's done so they can spray the plants with boatloads of chemicals and fertilizers and pesticides and herbicides and that is absorbed into the plant and then is in your food and then is in the animals you eat and in the food you eat and is then absorbed into your body.

Retards will believe anything corpos tell them through mass media though.

>>15558366
>Retards will believe anything corpos tell them through mass media though.
Having an inconsistent belief system that is malleable and always changes to fit the perceived mainstream point of view is socially safer than risking ostracism with a consistent system of beliefs that may contradict MSM reality and its also a lot easier than thinking critically about everything you see in the media

>>15558408
That works short term but long term the leech bleeds you dry and your bloodline vanishes

>>15558441
people who are too self centered to ever consider the possibility of caring for another people, not even their own child, don't seem to care about that.

>>15558361

>people can't go a few hours without eating some snack, urban centers are nothing but food tourism
>Agriculture industrial complex just keeps upping the glysophate

Monsanto is too strong ....

>>15559050
Monsato are dead only Bayer remains

>>15559050
>urban centers are nothing but food tourism
This started becoming really apparent to me a few years ago when I visited NYC a few times. Any time we were wondering what to do everyone would just suggest restaurants to go to. Realizing this really killed travel for me.

>>15559132
Yeah. It's like some demon energy in the herbicide world.
>You vill eat zee food and vee happy
Fat people everywhere...

what are the top ten goyslop toxins?
I've got:
PUFA
corn syrup
glyphosate

>>15559149
ppl should put jews in the oven instead of goyslop

>>15551825
You don't need to "hire" people like that.
These people are quasi religious fanatics. You just give them a gun and offer leniency for "their sacrifice".

>>15559149
Atrazine is much worse than these, but EU has it banned thankfully. Not USA though.

>>15559149
Pthalates

>>15559149
Oxalate.
Not that humans invented it or anything, but our ability to farm everything in abundance during all seasons allows us to unwittingly over-consume all kinds of foods that are high in oxalate but in the past were so seasonal and difficult to obtain that we simply couldn't consume a dangerous amount of them over long periods of time. Now you can just go buy a 5 pound bag of pre-shelled almonds at the store and rape your kidneys any time you want.

>>15559149
How can you forget fluoride and plastics?

>>15546828
No, but it's easy to use and good money for the industry so no one will fucking do anything about it.

>>15560655
>Be Bayer
>Hey what's our risk exposure after buying Monsanto?
>the glyphosate liability alone is how much?

>>15559149
Aspartame?

>>15559149
The east asian legume that we aren't allowed to name

>>15558713
add glyphosate to right panel

>oy vey white genocide is an antisemitic conspiracy theory
>*imports glyphosate to europe*

>>15554016
how come the european food safety police decided to import it if its that bad?

>>15563780
The industry always tries to buy out or at least influence regulatory authorities.
The EU's subventions for farmers are still heavily biased in favour of large farms, so the lobbying in Europe is seeing enough success that the Glyphosate case isn't surprising.

>>15546873
ah yes, it's not the % of old people that is causing that rise, it's glyphosate

>>15563985
>Alzheimer's Disease is just normal, okay?!
No.

>>15546828
Absolutely not, use of gloyphosate in agriculture has resulted in severe global overpopulation.

>>15546910
No, not really.

There is such a thing a body of evidence in courts of law. Too much correlation is more likely to have roots in causal factors.

>>15563780
all part of the white genocide plan

>>15563780
Because the coruption runs deep.

>>15561407
>estrogen beans marinated in glyphosate
european cuisine

>>15563780
>the government has our best interests at heart and if they approve something it must be good
Why are Europeans always this naive?

>>15546968
There is probably an actual correlation with this.
>Atheism has increased suicide rate
>Increased science funding may increase the rate of atheism

>>15566819
Suicide is literally becoming socially acceptable and government-funded in Canada.

>>15547112
But anon, it´s right there on page 3:
Acute Tox. 4, H302
Skin Irrit. 2, H315
Eye Dam. 1, H318
Aquatic Chronic 3, H412

>in b4: but that´s not Potassium salt of glyphosate
Yeah, but it´s round up.

>>15566716
They went to war a couple of times because someone had the wrong religion

>>15566880
*wrong interpretation of the same religion

>>15546828
perhaps the government should fuck off and let farmers do the farming, and consumers do the choosing.

If you don't want X, instead of getting daddy government to ban it, DONT FUCKING BUY IT!

>>15551373
all the more reason to use genetic modification to remove human reliance on microbes.

>>15567260

>>15567219
>why yes, this leaded gasoline is SO much cheaper, I should switch to that for the tractor!
>Wow, this copper arsenate is so much cheaper for killing bugs and mold than the alternative, this is great!

>>15567219
If I don't buy food with glyphosate I'll starve because it's in the fucking rain so even farmers that don't use it still have all their crops and animals exposed to it. A ban is the only thing that can prevent the problem from worsening.

>>15556614
>>15556595
>>15556580
>mfw the glyphosate jews have given me psoriasis

>>15567275
leaded gasoline is more expensive, averaging about $5.50/gallon currently.

typical dunning krugerism from a typical urbanite agriculture expert

While exploring this topic I doscovered something a little intreresting. Are any of you familiar with the genetic literacy groject?
>https://geneticliteracyproject.org/
they seemed quite a suspicious group so I injvestigated them a little.a little look at their founding and funding makes it clear what their agenda is.
How does one navigate this landscape of corporate propaganda?

>>15568617
I didn't know about this until now, and after reading a few articles where they constantly appeal to the "scientific consensus" instead of critically analyzing studies with different conclusions tells me all I need to know.

I use glyohosate in my backyard for weeds. I wear PPE and shower after. I would never use this stuff near crops or food.

>>15568910
>I use glyohosate in my backyard for weeds.
You should stop. Work on soil health and actually pull up weeds instead of nuking the entire local environment with poison.

>>15568924

I want to nuke it. I don't want any plants there. It's shaded so no grass will grow anyways.

>>15568950
The glyphosate you're spraying gets carried on the wind to other people's yards and mixes with the soil and gets into bugs who can carry it away and pee it out elsewhere and when it mixes with the water in the soil it can end up evaporating into the atmosphere. When I say you're poisoning the local environment, I'm not just talking about your back yard.

>>15569005

Not my problem. Clean it up with the exorbitant taxes I pay.

The amounts I use are trivial anyways. I spray for weeds with handheld bottles 2-3 times a year. Very limited.

>>15569139
You're aware there are other herbicides than roundup?

>>15569155
*glyphosate

>>15569155

Yes, and I use them too. Glyohosate only for the tough shrubs that are unharmed by the 2dt and others. I don't like the ones that only burn leaves because they don't get the roots.

>>15546828
>europeons can't feed themselves without the gift of American agricultural technology

>>15557240
How can someone who willingly took the vaxxx even be against glyphosate?
Imagine injecting yourself with modern horrors and then getting upset over plants being sprayed

>>15562224
Also add nose on left panel plane, WW1 & 2 were both Rothschild concocted wars intended to destroy whites

>>15554016
>I learned about it in more detail iny highschool environmental science class
>highschool
>environmental science

Yet another unfortunate step in the Americanization of Europe. 30 years ago Europe was just a group of separate, independent countries that shared the same continent and now they have become more like US states and lost all of their individual characteristics in the process. Cultural genocide of the entire continent via homogenization

>>15572843
globo homo
global homogenisation

>>15572851
>>15572843
Kikes.

>>15547005
>it's in apparently in everything except certified non gmo organics....
Well it's water soluble, so we're probably being exposed to runoff even if we avoid GMOs.

>haha this unknown chemical additive must be fine for humans - it hasn't been proven otherwise yet
>oops it was proven otherwise
>oh well time to move on to the next unknown chemical
Why is this allowed?

>>15573539
No, the process is actually:
>haha this unknown chemical additive must be fine for humans - it hasn't been proven otherwise yet
>oops it was proven otherwise
>bury and deny the evidence
>gaslight the population for decades
>never actually stop using the dangerous chemical because it's still more profitable to pay out legal settlements for damages and fees for non-compliance with government regulations annually than to stop using the chemicals that are known to harm people

>>15572843
I had this realisation that everything is about creating monopolies and cutting costs right.
It's kind of hard to describe and I'm not great with putting things into words.

But imagine you owned this product that a lot of people bought, now you are reliant on a certain culture where people buy what you have so you are incentivised to promote this culture and people having other cultures or speaking different languages is a threat to your ability sell your product because to sell to other people because it adds costs.
What's also a threat is people buying more specific products because product diversity is harder for your sales maybe they want something specific or produced to higher standards but this is a threat to the monopoly position since..it adds costs...
What you want is masses of people all buying what your have but not asking for more.

This basically creates an incentive for a communist system where everyone buys the same thing meaning you get all the profit and any income from this product.
the biggest threat to this is all those small businesses setting up to sell different versions that might just nbble away at your market and your total sales and profit margin

This might be wrong but I feel like it's what's happening.

>>15573589
You got to add
>make everyone who is concerned about the environment focus all their attention on imaginary (((global warmings))) that isn't even actually taking place as a means of distracting them from real environmental issues

>>15546828
yes, and my lawn loves it. still willing to change my mind tho.
I refuse to read all this shit. if someone can provide a review article in a prestigious journal stating otherwise to a degree of certainty, I'll read whatever shchizoshit you want to shit out this week /sci/.

>>15574009
this presentation cites several
>>15547110

>>15574013
>webinar
>by an AIfag
>who pushes her own "silent spring" rant POPSCI BOOK
try again, do not collect 200$
I dont even have to make up memes for this shit

>>15574026
>He has a meme made for a random scientist
Found the shill.

>>15574547
Stolen, autist
https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/11/09/not-even-wrong-seneff-and-samsel-debunked-seralini-crew-12126

>>15574869
>https://www.acsh.org
>https://www.acsh.org/video

lol kys

>>15572843
zoomers will never know what europe once was, they will never understand, the uniqueness, character and individuality of the various european nations has all been wiped out and its never coming back

>>15574026
pay docked

>>15546828
Oh great all the shit that the EU used to be wise enough to ban is just getting bought out and implemented with all that big business Covid money
Can't wait for all Europeans to get just as fat and unhealthy as Americans

>provide a review article in a prestigious journal stating otherwise to a degree of certainty, I'll read whatever shchizoshit you want to shit out this week /sci/
>fails to provide
>SHILL! SHILL!
I would gladly work for Monsanto, if it actually existed instead of being bought out by nazis.
I'll continue to use roundup. Thank you for proving how retarded the anti-glyphosate camp continues to be.

I'll leave with one thing: if you actually care about corruption and unsafe chemical spaying; avoid "organic" pesticides. More spraying is needed than glyphosate for less yeald, producers lobbied governments to ban GMOs and engaged in astroturf campaigns to buy up companies like Monsanto, and the chemicals leach into your food + pollute waterways due to the sheer volume of pesticides required.
Bayer wins whether the EU keeps using organic or moves to roundup ready seed now. As the largest producer and patent holder of both organic pesticides and now the remaining IP of monsanto, we'll be seeing a lot more of them.

>>15576363
>avoid "organic" pesticides
Obviously. All pesticides are poison and should not be used. If pests are a problem your farming is wrong and unbalanced.

>>15576235
Are you starting to believe in the white genocide "conspiracy theory" yet?

but what if you washed the water-soluble trace residue off before you ate the thing?

>>15574869
>seneff-and-samsel-debunked-seralini
formerly chuck's

>>15577054
>systemic herbicide
>wash off

>>15576807
>dont use pesticides regardless
sure, if you want to clear out an order of magnitude more land

>>15546968
>failed scientists kill themselves a lot
sounds about right

>>15577538
I doubt that. The amount of food waste every single day just from perfectly edible food that isn't pretty enough to go on store shelves is staggering. We already produce so much more food than anyone needs it's absolutely ridiculous.

>>15546968
technological innovation correlates with widespread depression
the solution is to return to monke

>>15578168
Based and correct.

>>15577863
>We already produce so much more food than anyone needs it's absolutely ridiculous.
Yet ppl still try to circulate resource scarcity rumors on this board constantly

>>15578520
At least in the US, food is definitely not actually scarce. We don't have a problem with the output in the agricultural space, we have so much output we barely know what to do with it.
https://www.fda.gov/food/consumers/food-loss-and-waste

>In the United States, food waste is estimated at between 30–40 percent of the food supply. This figure, based on estimates from USDA’s Economic Research Service of 31 percent food loss at the retail and consumer levels, corresponded to approximately 133 billion pounds and $161 billion worth of food in 2010. Food is the single largest category of material placed in municipal landfills

If 30-40% of the food supply is going to waste we're making nearly twice as much food as we need, but then these huge conglomerates will try to shill the need for all their chemical pesticides and shit because it's supposedly the only way to keep up food production even though food production is basically out of control.

>>15577532
>systemic herbicide
ppl who don't grow plants don't know what that means

>>15579437
Neither do people who don't know how to use a search engine or can't infer its meaning from the constituent words.

>>15578546
>At least in the US, food is definitely not actually scarce
Its not scarce anywhere, there hasn't been a famine on this planet that wasn't orchestrated by government as a means of committing mass murder since the 1860s

>>15580147
the other side of that coin is that government orchestration of mass murder of it's own citizens never really happened all too much before the 1860, but since then it has happened with regularity.

>>15580147
>>15581100
What changed in 1860?

>>15581100
>he doesn't know about the 30 years war

>>15581110
A cold summer in finland combined with poor road transportation lead to a naturally occurring famine

Do eurofags look forward to your brighter, more plentiful future all thanks to the genius of American agricultural technology?
You're welcome

>>15584166
Amerifat(the Rican half-white) are retarded

>>15584166

>>15584167
>Amerifat(the Rican

How come Europeans can't develop their own Agricultural technology thats superior to American tech?
Are Europeans too low IQ to compete or are they too lazy?

>>15585990
brain drain to the US
imagine being a scientist in the EU, get paid half as much and get taxed up the ass

>>15586802
so europe is low iq now?

>>15587561
yes

>>15589089
Brazil banned glyphosate, does that mean Brazil is higher IQ than Europe?

>>15590507
yes

>>15546968
/thread

>>15547046

>>15568910
>>15568950
Ameridumbs are truly a remarkable species

india, which is far, far more densely populated than euorpe, can raise all it's own food without using glyphosate, but eurofags can't figure out how to
is india higher iq than europe?

>>15546968
Why is this only between 1999 and 2009?
Is it because you wouldn't see the same correlation if you extended it, say, 10 years earlier and 10 years later?

>>15546968
Correlation is evidence, but not proof, of causation. It's not conclusive on its own, but it is irrational to ignore.

>>15581110
Atheism.

>>15592253
how come every nation on the planet is begging to use american agricultural technology?

>>15596386
Europe invented glyphosate

>>15546828
no. i wont even go into the accumulated ecological effects, everyone knows. organophosphates are bad for you, who knew!?
glyphosphate is a terrible solution for weeds, genuinely. sure it kills them. but it changes the microbial balance and makeup of the soil to actually encourage weeds once its broken down, so you become reliant on it. unmitigated as it often is you WILL see a relatively barren bacterial dominant soil culture. a bandaid that has hepatitis on it. and currently the usual "mitigation" is stubble burning, scorched earth. another practice that really needs to go. but for that chemical fertilizers and all their many problems, heavy metal content, exacerbated agonism, inferior flavoid production, nutrition, i could go on.
the advent of glyphosphate resistant gmo crops has been fucking disastrous for food security. despite feeding a lot of people, oddly enough.

>>15596386
because that's what their soil test says.
farmers are some of the most gullible people on the planet.

>>15596386
I don't know about all over the world, but U.S. farmers are basically forced to fall into line or get shut down.

>>15577538
there's something to be said for keeping the leaf biofilm intact and only making use cultural, systemic pesticides, and biological measures. because that's what i do. that said i run a set of farms to test products for market, and am also far better trained than any farmer. i don't think this is practical at the moment and would require a pretty big shift in the culture of the industry.

>>15598186
by the way, im not saying grow organic, that's retarded. im saying grow smart. you can remove the need for foliar sprays and herbicides with good soil management and some regenerative practices. but for now we are very focused on getting our foot in the door just regime compatibility wise.

i've had people yell at me and threaten me for some of what i'm saying as if i had blasphemed so i sure a shit know industry isn't fully ready. so right now we are >durrrr less yield drag
though achieving this in a program without use of humates is sort of novel, not that any of these knuckleheads notice there even is a bleeding edge of agriculture.

>>15598156
Why did you only show up now, you sound like you know your soil.
A shame unless someone starts another thread

>>15598218
The advantage I see of organic is that unfortunately it's the only way as a consumer can see to avoid the use of crop dessicants

>>15598218
Organic is as much of a label as anything. Otherwise it's the wild west. Some crops are grown organically or even better without the label (that costs extra money), but it's hard to know that if you don't have a relationship with your farmer.

glyphosate is probably one of the less bad herbicides
but the current spraying strategy enabled by roundup ready crops, or its use as a wheat dessicant, are way too fucking much

>>15598303
It's not just wheat, any combinable crop could justify the use of a desiccant.
This has major and wide reaching implications.

No it's not.

It's why So many people were having problems with Bread, while they were using it on crops.

IT's why it is ILLEGAL to use it in Europe. & most civilized countries

*Leukimia

>>15598284
yeah, there's a pretty big range of what could be considered organic, very arbitrary. soft rock phosphate is considered an organic input, when it isn't really, chock full of cadmium and only soluble at or below 5.5 ph, not considered processed as its a waste product, even though its definitely been processed. the only mined product i consider organic is sul-po-mag just because of how vital it is, and mineralised/coralised guano.
>>15598235
i'm an ausfag, and its just the way /sci/ goes, someone actually in industry shows up only when the thread is tapering off. also few actually engage when good info does get posted i've noticed.

>>15599917
>also few actually engage when good info does get posted i've noticed.
This board is full of retards and shills.
I honestly welcome some of the schizos because they're at minimum actually motivated to have a discussion and will throw up research they find even if it goes in completely random directions.

The problem I see with food and farming is that people don't want to pay what good food is actually worth at the environmental level so anyone half decent gets replaced with fools.
the other side of it is the control of grocers and other middlemen

It's fine

>>15599963
yeah i'd honestly prefer the
>fuck sci do my homework for me its too hard :((
of yesteryear to the trite pop sci schlock that gets spammed here constantly.
it's so over.
agreed on the schizos, somehow they are better at looking for papers and accessing them than i am and i can just write the one time fees and publications off as a business expenses.
and yeah unless daddy govt steps in which i really don't like the idea of, or an insane mass epiphany that modern agriculture isn't sustainable. and a lot of the time you aren't paying for quality at farmers markets like you said, there's this trend of people buying shit from the fruit and veg and selling to retards for 2x the price as organic produce at sunday markets and just generally poisoning the well for legit hobby farmers. you just have no clue, unless you know the farm or the person.

>>15599963
>This board is full of retards and shills.
I can assure you I'm not a shill!

>>15600020
>you just have no clue, unless you know the farm or the person.
exactly
It's an absolute nightmare. As an individual the knowledge barrier is sky high.
The irony is that the cost isn't that much more for most foods it's just not the cheapest possible and to the consumer what's the difference between one cabbage and another, so what if the long term health costs dwarf the margiinal savings day to day, I don't know what to do and I work in he industry with a personal interest in the topic
You need some legit organisation and a lot of knowledge
What's that chinese religious cult that's obsessed with eating healthy foods I remember the leader claiming that the chinese government target their members because they have healthier organs they must have a system to assure themselves of the quality of what they eat to claim that in china assuming it's not another scam.

>>15600020
you are jewish

>>15600472
yeah alright then

>>15600472
why?

How do you source your food from a trustworthy provider?