/sci/ - Science & Math

the hell we can't

>>1547648
isnt highly debated that the evolution of man is linear?

lol biology sucks big time

the reason why creationists still have a room for debate is because fucking biologists cant put any shit together. Much less make any type of predictions.

Problem of biology is to take the same approach as physics. while physics is the study of mater and care so little about organization -- which is the main factor that put all those elements together. a correct approach of the study of organization is required. the far we are from the "material world" the better.

>>1547654
>>1547648
All these so-called "transitional forms" are just humans with birth defects or arthritis. Just a few days "scientists" found that the Triceratops doesn't exist but is a smaller form of the species Torosaurus.

How can you evolutionists be so sure that "Neanderthals" are a different species when you can't tell that two dinosaur species are actually the same?

>>1547672
Because neanderthals have clear and specific differences from Homo Sapiens that can't be accounted for by in-species genetic mutation. No mutation in Homo Sapiens has ever generated a skull as large as Neanderthal.

>>1547664
That map is truly an amazing description of how short a time we've been here.

I wonder if we'll have the technology to preserve ourselves when our extinction event occurs.

>>1547672
bring the link of the story

Also, isnt the neanderthal supposed to have a really different DNA configuration compared to modern humans?

>>1547664
Isn't that image completely fucking outdated?

>>1547676
>No mutation in Homo Sapiens has ever generated a skull as large as Neanderthal.
But that's one of those logical fallacies you people like to accuse us of. There have been mutations in Homo Sapiens that have generated skulls like Neanderthal skulls: Neanderthal skulls! You assume that these other "homonids" can't be human, and use that assumption to "prove" that anything that looks different from the norm is a non-human skeleton!

>>1547695
DNA analysis has been done on Neanderthal skulls. They are not homo sapiens.

>>1547704

inb4 some hurr durr rebuttal.

>>1547706
Hurr durr, it's just a homo sapiens with a lot of mutations!

ur mom is a homo sapien lololol

>>1547726
My mum is not a homo!

>>1547704
How do you do DNA analysis to determine if something is a different species? Is there some universal rule of how many letters have to be different? If not, then you're just drawing an arbitrary line beyond which skeletons are "not human," again assuming what you're trying to prove.

Scientists have drawn that line before and been so sure of it when they were called eugenicists and declared other races to be subhuman. Just more evidence that evilution is racist.

It is not possible for evolution and natural selection to not exist in a system like the ones humans and animals on Earth exist in. The way genes are passed along means that natural selection HAS to happen, because creatures more adapted to the environment will live to pass them along. It doesn't matter what we find in fossil records, this is a fact. If you believe that two white parents won't give birth to a black baby, you believe in evolution.

The thing about Science is it changes over time. We used to think that other races were subhuman but now scientists agree this isn't true, same with many mistakes science has made. The thing is, when new evidence that contradicts old theories pops up, scientists refine or come up with new theories.
When evidence that contradicts the bible comes up, Christians say "DUURR HURR IT WAS THE DEVIL" and go back to listening to how somebody misinterpreted a book a thousand years ago.

>>1547766
These are people that believe that a woman and a bunch of fucking shamans can produce the God Emperor of mankind.

>>1547794

Okay good point, expecting christfags to accept anything other than "a wizard did it" is a bit far fetched. As a scientist, I am forced to redo my theory that this would work based on evidence and opinions from fellow people.
See if I was a christian I'd say "That would have worked except the devil possessed him."

>>1547758
Your lack of knowledge is showing

>>1547758

>be god
>create a planet 66 percent liquid
>create a "dominant" species that cannot thrive in liquid
>trollface.jpg

captcha: theology norad

>>1547834
inb4 "devil did it"

>>1547766
Actually, that's wrong, two white parents can have black genes, and could actually have the possibility to have a black baby. Genes can skip generations and show much later. You might as well read Mendel's experiments.

>>1547834
I believe sir, we've put this Christfag on DEFCON 5 somewhere out there, a Pope is shitting himself.

>>1547856

Okay yeah that wasn't a good example but you know what I meant, basically people tend to look like their parents.

>>1547834
All the water on Earth is a trial meant to test us before Judgment Day.

If anything, this is evidence against evolution. Evolution preaches that animals are supposed to adapt to their environment. Well our environment's the Earth, water and all! Why haven't we adapted yet?

>be god
>force "dominant" species to adhere to laws of gravity
>have them watch birds for "4000 years," becoming more and more jelly with time
>trollface.jpg

>>1547807
>>1547758

is there a way to tell by just looking at DNAs if its still in the same species or not?

I heard that a species is defined by those animals that just reproduce between them, but what about donkeys and horses?? and theres other, even more stupid criteria.


There is plenty of holes in the species definition. to say that there's a smooth line that brought humans into existence is too adventurous, perhaps irresponsible.

>>1547884
>All the water on Earth is a trial meant to test us before Judgment Day.

source from biblical test or you're bullshitting to save the very little face you have left.

>>1547900
>test
>text

>>1547898
there is no one true "definition" of species.

this, i promise you.

>>1547898

It's if the offspring can reproduce with each other I believe.

>>1547884

Called it. Seriously where the fuck is this from? I have never read this in my many years of reading the bible. How is water a test? If it's a test on judgement day why does it exist today?
The thing is, adapting to an environment doesn't mean that something can survive anywhere on Earth. It means that a species has adapted to its specific evolutionary location, which in the case of humans is on the land. There is actually research and evidence for how creatures eventually adapted to land, but since it would take too long to fit here and you probably wouldn't care I won't write it.

>>1547914
(i'm an evolutionary biologist)

>>1547919
this still isn't true, sorry.

there's no definition of species. sorry people.

>>1547919

HURR DURR YUR NAWT REDIN THEM BIBELS RITE

>>1547925

aaaawwww :'(

>>1547925
>>1547914
so we have a complete taxa catalogue just for fucking nothing??

LOL BIOLOGY seriously.

>>1547931
it's a really interesting concept. humans just really want to organize things and place things into categories, blablabla

the truth of it...is that evolution is a constant process. it never stops, and thus there is never set "species" of anything.

it's all constantly changing. there can be..."lines" but there is no one scientifically accepted definition of what a species really is.

>>1547945
our "taxonomic tree" is just an attempt of humans trying to organize their surroundings.

trust me bro, go talk to anyone who's taken an evolution course--there's no such thing as "species"

>>1547947
there are abrupt changes is definitely not a smooth line.

Take your stupid gradualism elsewhere

>>1547898
Species is a man made concept.
You can ignore it, it still doesn't change anything.
The genome of a thing called Neanderthal is different from a genome of a thing called human. Neanderthal thing lived a long time ago. Neanderthal genome and human genome are related. Relatedness can be inferred from the skeleton as well.

A thing that lived a long time a go has different but related genome to a thing that lives today. Sounds pretty much like evolution to me.

>>1547951
i know i was being sarcastic with the 1st paragraph stupid.

seriously if biologist want to be taken seriously they have to solve this shit first.

every day at work i marvel at these.

>not saging in a religious troll thread

>>1547954
wrong. nothing can cause a higher frequency of mutations.

which is necessary for your punctuated equilibrium

>>1547961
Never heard of a whole genome duplication?

>>1547958
aka...covering your ass

>>1547958
>seriously if biologist want to be taken seriously they have to solve this shit first.

Protip: there's nothing to solve.

>>1547963
still wouldn't account for what's required of punctuated equilibrium theories

>>1547955
>>1547951
yeah asshole but that doesnt prove anything

following the actual dogma, neanderthals are not descendants of modern humans you retard. neither any other type of hominid.

at the beginning of this year new fossils where found that suggest we descend from the combination of several hominids -- including neanderthal

>>1547973
anthropology is a stupid "science." don't bring your bullshit here, fag.

>>1547970
The point is that you don't need a higher mutation rate for abrupt changes.

>>1547975
yes you do. do you know anything about genetics?

Evolution is racist! This children's comic told me so!

>>1547973
I don't think you should be discussing things you don't understand very well.

>>1547969
>>1547965

>i took a evo course
>im a genius

the fact of the matter is that the species concept is still is heavily used to explain for example the fucking origin of man.

im not saying they are right, but if you want to get to any point biologists should stop using the species term. add to that the concept of "organism"

>>1547990
this.

i'm off now, tosh.0 is on. L2EVOBIO, THE LOT OF YOU.

>>1547980
I just gave you an example of an abrupt change that has NOTHING to do with increased mutation rate: whole genome duplication.

You sound like you don't know much about genetics.

>>1547974
>>1547990
LOL nice counterarguments you faggots.

>>1547679
this puts it in perspective a little better.

>>1547992
On top of that, why not do the whole shebang and stop using vague terms like "life" and "matter"?

>>1547981
Source on that shit?

>>1548014
i agree

Systems theory and information theory already did a nice job.

>>1547992
>Species concept is used to explain the origin of a specific species

No shit, Sherlock!

>>1548044

if the species concept is obsolete, dont you think whatever relies on it will be obsolete and stupid too.

thats the whole point fucking dumbass.. congratulations to figure it out yourself.

>>1548059
No, I only think you are stupid because you have trouble understanding very simple posts in this thread (and you also seem to have trouble using a very simple language - English)

I said nothing about species concept being obsolete.

>>1547635

>>1547648
It's too bad we evolved out of having the black light in our skull in D

>>1548078
Nice job trying to get some attention off your stupidity to my grammar. English is not my native language, and i bet you dont even know other languages. Anyway thats besides the point.

You said that the species concept is man-made just for the sake of keep things organized. So in that light, trying to answer the origins of life and men with the species concept is wrong, just because species dont actually exist in natural systems.

ITT: A bunch of retards arguing about what retarded system should be used to describe all the retarded animals on this retarded planet.

>>1548166

English is my second language and I speak two other languages. You lost your bet

>You said that the species concept is man-made just for the sake of keep things organized

No I didn't. But it's true.

Origins of life have nothing to do with species concept and no one is trying to use species concept to answer questions about origins of life.

If "man" or "Homo sapiens" is a man-made concept, how is it wrong to use man-made concepts to explain the evolutionary history of "man"?

Seriously, you're trying to pass yourself as an intelligent person, yet you can't grasp this simple concept. Trying to reconstruct evolutionary history without the use of species concept is the same as trying to measure and express distances without using units of length.

Mathematical models don't exist in nature, yet they are instrumental in understanding natural system.

>>Mathematical models don't exist in nature, yet they are instrumental in understanding natural system.

WRONG

>>1548221
WRONG

Lol, OP trollin so hard. Go breed some fruit flies or plate some yeast cultures and youll know how it's possible.

>>1548263
WRONG

>>1548263
[citation needed]

>>1548280
derp

>>1548207
>>1548207
>Mathematical models don't exist in nature, yet they are instrumental in understanding natural system.

I agree with you on that, and thats the reason why its fucked up in the first place. if the species concept is already proven not be adequate to explain the origins of life.. why the fuck we keep using it, and more importantly why we keep trying to fit new fossil discoveries in such retarded (as the length analogy u used) "measurement" or in technical terms formal system.

thats my fucking point you dumbass.

My solution is not to just stay quiet and dont say anything.
but to change the system that is congruent with the "new" discoveries in genetics.

If we dont find common terms and a useful approach, we will be doomed to navigate through all this fucking ocean of terminologies that is biology.

>>1548369
>>1548207
it doesnt count that you know some words in other languages or you take a 101 course for a year.

Im fluent in Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and English

and when i say fluent i mean i can read/talk/write almost perfectly.

i know some French and German too, but i cant say i dominate those languages.

If you dont believe me i can explain the shit i just said in any of the after mentioned languages.

this thread gives me hope.

>>1547704
>DNA analysis
>on a fossil

...had to reply to this one.

>>1548398
explain tripfag

>>1548387

I'd like to see that in Portuguese, just out of simple curiosity.

>>1548487
Don't ask him too. He's literally batshit insane.

>>1547672
Dinosaurs are older. Additionally, WE DO NOT BILLIONS OF LIVING SPECIMENS OF THEM LIKE WE DO HUMANS. Herpa derpa.

ITT: people who work at Denny's

I believe in God. I think science is trying to kill religion by treating it like some fictional story in schools, when it's not fiction at all. The only reason less kids are believing in God is because during school they are told a fucking cartoon like story.
>>1548446

god is pluto

>>1548586
you shouldn't be on this board at all if your only purpose is to talk about religion.

I'm here to make God science.
I'm a God-Scientist.
I prove God exists on this board daily.
Suck me.
>>1548596

>>1548586
Science isn't an institution like religion saying science is trying to kill religion is like saying cooking is trying to kill mcdonalds it isnt possible because science is about the scientific process which is mearly answers derived from imperical evidence there isn't some big company that represents science and it cant have any agenda other than truth within a resonable doubt.

>>1548611

>I prove God exists on this board daily.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Science openly says God doesn't exist and goes against religion.Science claims big bang, with no cause of effect. A bang is an action, requires pressure, and counter pressure - that's wrong - no matter how complicated they make it sound, you'll always be taken as a fool - a bang? a gun bangs, two hands bang, i fall on the ground i bang. I rarely walk through the streets and all of a sudden, nothing goes 'bang'.

God is a black hole
and a black hole is a pencil tip
3D magical pencil
>>1548612

not sure if pluto or black hole

>>1548586

>>1548595
Pluto/Hades > yahweh

>>1548638
>>1548665
>>1548651

fuck you troll obviously god isnt something as mundane as a planet or a black hole. You realize the universe is flat right?? if you imagine that flat shape in a 3D space and then multiply those universes to a trillon times so you can have a small piece of thread then repeat that again other trillion times and you will have a piece of textile that is part of a underwear, which covers gods asshole.

END OF STORY

this thread... you dumbfucks...

sense, this made none
>>1548726

>>1550318

LOOK UP GENOME #2 MOTHERFUCKERS

How could the first cell be formed if there was no DNA instructions for the proteins to follow?

the first cell was alike a planet.