/sci/ - Science & Math

“What’s being advocated are philosophies that are explicitly anti-scientific,” Anna Krylov, a chemistry professor at the University of Southern California and one of the paper’s authors, told me. “They deny that objective truth exists.” Having grown up in the Soviet Union, where science was infused with Marxist-Leninist ideology, Krylov is particularly attuned to such threats. And while she has advocated on behalf of equal treatment for women in science, she prefers to be judged on the basis of her achievements, not on her sex. “The merit of scientific theories and findings do not depend on the identity of the scientist,” she said in a phone interview.

The paper itself expands on that last idea, i.e. that science and its conclusions stand apart from the identity of scientists:
https://journalofcontroversialideas.org/article/3/1/236

>Scientific truths are universal and independent of the personal attributes of the scientist. Science knows no ethnicity, gender, or religion. Of course, by itself, universalism does not prevent the personal views of scientists, which are influenced by culture and society, from affecting the practice of science. Indeed, scientists have not always lived up to the ideals of fairness and impartiality in evaluating merit. In the past, scientific culture contributed to the exclusion of various groups from the scientific enterprise. For example, sexism limited women’s entry into science, and those who helped raise awareness of such issues have done science a service. However, the shortcomings of individuals or the community should not be confused with the science itself. Whether sexism prevented Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin from receiving credit for her conclusion that the Sun was made mostly of hydrogen is irrelevant to the fact that the Sun is made mostly of hydrogen.

>Although there are feminist critiques of how glaciologists have conducted themselves, there is no such thing as “feminist glaciology,” just as there is no “queer chemistry,” “Jewish physics,” “white mathematics,” “indigenous science,” or “feminist astronomy.” Glacial, physical, genetic, or prehistoric phenomena are independent of the positionality of the scientist. By prioritizing the truth value of scientific research, personal influences of individual scientists are minimized.

The paper also discusses the danger of allowing science to be dictated by political dogma, using an example from the Soviet Union.

>In the Soviet Union (USSR), the aberrations of Trofim Lysenko had catastrophic consequences for science and society. An agronomist and “people’s scientist” who came from the “superior” class of poor peasants, Lysenko rejected Mendelian genetics because of its supposed inconsistency with Marxist ideology. Dissent from Lysenko’s ideas was outlawed and his opponents were fired or prosecuted. Lysenko’s ideologically infused agricultural ideas were put into practice in the USSR and China, where, in both countries, they led to decreased crop yields and famine. Today, biology is again being subjugated to ideology—medical schools deny the biological basis of sex, biology courses avoid teaching the heritability of traits, and so on.

The paper goes on to offer some general criticisms of Critical Social Justice (CSJ) approaches to science.

>CSJ-driven pedagogy can be pernicious, even when proposed innovations appear benign. For example, the proposed curriculum decolonization in pharmacology involves teaching about drugs developed from folk remedies and focusing on the contributions of non-Europeans. While such topics might be appropriate for a history of medicine course, centering the curriculum around them, as has been proposed, would be detrimental to training health professionals. The vast majority of today’s pharmacopeia is derived from the research and development efforts of the modern pharmaceutical industry; effective treatments derived from traditional medicine are rare, especially in the era of bio and immunotherapies. For example, of the over 150 anticancer drugs available today, only three are of natural origin (trabectedin, taxanes, and vinca-alkaloids).

The last portion of the paper offers more examples of the ways in which ideology is intruding into science, often with little evidence. This is from a section on efforts to replace merit-based policies with identity-based policies.

>Claims of bias in STEM, which now pervade the literature, are typically based on anecdotal evidence, superficial analyses, or ideologically based assumptions. A typical example is a paper that alleges the existence of gender bias in chemistry publishing based on a superficial analysis of publication statistics. Although the authors found gender differences in various metrics of professional accomplishment, the differences were small—e.g., on the order of one percentage point in manuscript acceptance rates. Moreover, the authors failed to adequately control for potentially confounding factors (e.g., seniority of researchers) that could explain the observed gender discrepancies.

>>15432049
I
told
you

>>15432049
>Merit and ability
Oooooohhhhhh those bad! Those be racisms and white supremacies!

Yet, despite this paper’s poor scholarship, it has been cited as evidence of biases in chemistry and used to justify imposing gender quotas on editorial boards and in reviewer pools.
>When confounding factors are controlled, evidence of gender bias in STEM all but vanishes. Controlling for confounding variables, a recently completed quantitative synthesis of the literature on gender gaps in six academic science domains (manuscript acceptance rates, recommendation letters, tenure track hiring, grant funding, salaries, and teaching ratings) found convincing evidence of bias only in teaching ratings, and the oft-cited gender pay gap of 18% was reduced to 4%. In the other five domains, the authors concluded that there has been “no systematic gender bias in the last 10–20 years.” Similarly, a recent encyclopedic review of the literature on gender gaps in STEM found that “the evidence for endemic antifemale bias is inconclusive at best,” and that, instead, “the main cause of the gender gaps in STEM appears to be average sex differences in people’s vocational preferences.”…
>In hiring at many universities, faculty applicants are now required to write DEI statements. In recent faculty searches in the life sciences at UC Berkeley, threequarters of the candidates were eliminated solely on the basis on their DEI statements. Putting aside separate objections that the use of DEI statements to screen applicants constitutes a political litmus test and a form of (possibly illegal) compelled speech, by reducing the viable applicant pool, it likely undermines the quality of science. Thus, a brilliant mathematician (or physicist or cognitive scientist) may be filtered out by virtue of having expressed insufficient enthusiasm or familiarity with the particular version of DEI that the institution supports

The paper concludes:

>Imbuing science with ideology harms the scientific enterprise and leads to a loss of public trust. If we continue to undermine merit, our universities will become institutions of mediocrity rather than places of creativity and accomplishment, leading to the loss of the competitive edge in technology. Thus, we need to restore our commitment to practices grounded in epistemic humility and the meritocratic, liberal tradition.

This is a full-throated attack on the ideology of critical social justice and its encroachment on the liberal values of science. As such I’m sure the authors will be given the full treatment from those whose only response to criticism is to attack the critics as racists, misogynists, etc. Still, it’s good to see some people are still willing to stand up to the bullies.

>>15432049
You guys not from NZ might not know this but Tibees' uncle(?) is Shaun Hendy who used to get in the news a lot in NZ, and he and this other fat pink haired hypocritical moron actually bullied and pressured some other academics in New Zealand until they resigned, all over a letter defending science as being merit based. People signed an open letter defending science departments from being accused of "perpetuating white supremacy/colonialism" in response to a really disturbing trend that the government was pushing, accusing "western science" of being somehow oppressive to Maori people. The government also liked to push the idea of "Maori knowledge" as being equal to science, when it really isn't. Also, at the university of Auckland, where this took place, the library even removed huge sections of the science shelves in order to replace it with either Maori knowledge, or just nothing at all. Chemistry books take up only 1 shelf now. Maths and physics went from 10+ shelves to 2 shelves. Biology takes up maybe 2 or 3? And the library is 7 stories in total. They say it's about "saving space" or that nobody was reading those books anyway, but then why replace them with the even less popular "Maori knowledge?"
Anyway, these guys wrote an open letter opposing the notion that science is a tool of oppression, and then they got public academics like Tibees' uncle getting a bunch of other people on board to accuse them of being racists, and people who signed that had to resign. It's like a Maoist display.
Only mentioning Tibees because I know some of you love that weirdo dork so might get baited to read this post. Otherwise I don't think she was involved in any way and seems like a nice enough person.

>>15432116
I would say thank god I'm getting out of this dying country one day, because you can watch the decline of this once nice place happening right before your eyes and everyone is in on it, we get dumber and less educated every year (literally, they measure what our high school kids cover and they end up falling further and further behind every year), but fuck me if everywhere in the west isn't like this nowadays. Even the notion of western science. What the fuck does that even mean? The whole point of science is that it's objective and independent of practitioner and ideology...

>>15432049
>characterizes science as fundamentally racist and in need of “decolonizing
What's funny is that the findings would probably support east Asians more than whites if anything

>>15432049
>Merit and ability officially counts for nothing in science
THAT'S A FACT!!!

from the Berkeley hiring shit that the op-ed cites at one point
>Limiting the first review to contributions in DE&I is itself a dramatic change of emphasis in the typical evaluation process which generally focuses on primarily on research accomplishments. Furthermore, we believe that the redaction of candidate names from these statements reduced unconscious bias in the evaluation processes. Without presumptions regarding a candidate’s gender, national origin or ethnicity, reviewers evaluated candidates solely on their statements on accomplishments, depth of understanding, and future plans.
Unironically I don't think redaction of nonessential information like names is a bad idea for this sort of thing. But I would probably count "actual qualifications" as one of those essential things.

>>15432049
It is a glaring indictment of modern society that this paper even had to be written. It is downright sad and disgusting that it had to be posted in the "Journal of Controversial Ideas"

Leftism and DEI are fucking cancers. The West will not survive much more of either.

>>15432049

Damn ya'll don't even try here do you? Fuck.

>>15432131
I actually moved out of the US in 2021 for the same reason. Granted I had family in Europe so it was an easy transition, idk what to recommend to people who would need to start new lives without a family support network. Continental Europe even the Western part is not nearly as cucked as the US. The language barrier helps a lot because all US trends get filtered by translators who would be too embarrassed to explain gender pronouns and sex reassignment surgery.

its over

>>15432131
> The whole point of science is that it's objective and independent of practitioner and ideology...

not under communism

>>15432049
>“downright hurtful.”
It's amazing how thin skinned they are.
>this concept of merit has been widely and legitimately attacked as hollow as currently implemented
Work hard, do better than your peers and be forced to their lowest level.

>>15434120
>no child left behind
Those children are adults now and they’re still children and we can’t leave them behind!

>>15432049
This is why compassion is the most horrible sin ever.

Make
Science
Great
Again

>>15432131
Remember the days of lysenkoism?

>>15434218
I'm not that old, but yes

>>15432116
>>15432131
NZposters are so good, and bring so much insight about topics I hear about in the news (I'm Kiwi) which I don't get the full story about. Education in this country is atrocious, our youth no nothing, and I say that as someone who's borderline Z/Millennial. Alpha won't be functional. We rely on the cream of India and Asia to function, but won't last forever because they can't maintain the complex, high trust, and creative societies and ideas that built New Zealand and other White countries.

>>15434832
>the complex, high trust, and creative societies and ideas that built New Zealand and other White countries.

you could've just said "Christian" instead of all that.

>>15432049
Good article, thanks for posting, everyone should read it

>>15432049
>Merit and ability officially counts for nothing in science
already well know, scientist are notoriously unproductive and lead pointless lives dedicated to publishing pointless articles, most of which are false and the rest are nonsense

>>15432049
Ah, so some of you fucking idiots finally waking up to the fact that the institution of science is under assault.
Well fuck you.
This began decades ago and the same sort of useless fucks as you said nothing about it then, and you will do nothing meaningful about it now. Reap what your head-in-the-sand apathy has grown.
>>15432116
>"Maori knowledge"
You are behind the times. They now call it "Maori science". Completely straight faced, staring you in the eye. They actually believe it is a thing. Yup, that's right, a stone age people with no written language of their own were practicing "science" hundreds of years before they met the Europeans.
>Keep the prow of the boat pointing towards those stars. Holy Fuck, There's some land! Now let's lose all knowledge of seafaring because we dont need it anymore. Looks like 1% of our sea voyages actually made it to New Zealand! Maori astronomy.
>Keep killing stuff for meat until it goes extinct, then wage war on our neighbors and eat them. Maori agriculture.
>Plant sweet potatoes in the ground and hope they grow. Fuck, this time they didn't. Better raid, kill, eat, and enslave our neighbors. Maori horticulture.
>Sharpen side of stones so we can better bash out the brains of our neighbors and eat them. Maori masonry.

>>15432131
I (and I'd bet lots of other people) aren't "in on it", we just have no idea how to oppose it.
At my college, for instance, there's always an undercurrent of threat of expulsion/excommunication for denying "the science".
Ridicule is manageable. Being cancelled is not.

>>15432049
Nobody cares about le "scoyence" in 2023
We are all going backwards and civilisation won't exist in next few decades.
This is what we all deserve for allowing kikes and libchuds to take over the society and it's institutions.

>>15437632
Hence forth all major public and private institutions should announce 100% reservations for fat disabled trannie negros.
Math should be abolished, Exercising should be made a crime, children should be raped and eaten, all men should be neutered and women trannyfied.
All cities and towns should be filthy and crime ridden shitholes.

>>15437166
Absolutely true, anybody who spent some time in academia will attest to your statement. Research is just another way to get money, more publications = more money.

>>15432049
>Merit and ability officially counts for nothing in science
True.

>>15432049
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm9tUVI6Ehk
quantum mechanics meme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8yVJDO9HJ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZngxijknKs

>>15432072
>the bullies.

>>15437701
At this point I'm so happy I bailed on a PhD program in chem that would have been a very stupid decision with the way things are right now.

>>15432049
>>A paper published last week, “In Defense of Merit in Science,” documents the disquieting ways in which research is increasingly informed by a politicized agenda, one that often characterizes science as fundamentally racist and in need of “decolonizing.”
>The authors argue that science should instead be independent, evidence-based and focused on advancing knowledge…

Yet pay walls and reputation politics still exist and it's okay right?

Yeah they can fuck off.

>>15432049
Behold: The Great Filter!

Ideological Psychopaths.

>>15432049
Why don't true scientists reject major science journals. It's not like those journals pay them for their publications. It's not like internet doesn't offer routes to publish superior in each and every aspects. It's a shame that some sci-hub-like resource open for discussion and crowd review didn't appear yet.

>>15438894
funding depends on journal publications

>>15439318
Make your family members or some rich guys fund you. Make them feel like aristocrats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebqAH5mLZNk
Allowing scum into science was a mistake.

>>15432116
Over in /scg/ I read that Australia is the country where science goes to die, sorry to hear the rot hasw spread also to NZ. The US is deep in the rot already and so is much of Europe. I don't really know what is left.

The US gained a lot when scientists fled Germany in the 1930s, now is perhaps the time for another country to present itself as the safe haven for real science.

>>15440266
I don't know why you got that perspective because NZ has always been far worse than Australia in science. Science is relatively decent in Australia by comparison, they have some good places. There is maybe 1 in New Zealand which is passable.

>>15439352
Good video

>>15435130
Yeah like the famously great countries in Christian Africa

>>15441539
Africa is on the upswing, Europe and North America are collapsing, because Africa sticks to their values and Europe & North America do not

>>15442388
Africa is "on the upswing" due entirely to the contributions of other races who know how to construct a functioning civilisation which has nothing to do with christianity.

>>15442704
Your civilization is collapsing at the same time that Africa's is improving. You can choose to deny this truth as a coping mechanism if you are emotionally incapable of accepting it, but doing that will not change the course of events, Africa will still be on the upswing while you are on the decline.

>>15442748
>Africa's
>civilization
nigga yo mad

the sheboon will be moved to the crocodile exhibit

>>15442388
>>15442748
Name a great Christian country you would rather live in than any atheist western or East Asian country.
I think I'd even take a pagan society like Ancient Greece or Rome over some modern African shithole to be honest.

>>15443327
uganda, eswatini, ghana

>>15432072
>loss of public trust
whenever mass media or certain talking heads address the loss of public trust in institutions - they always frame it as if the public is at fault.
If they even bother to address why trust was lost, it's to pin it on some nebulous topical boogeyman rather than consider the institutions and media could have been to blame.

>>15445079
Ah yes the great nation of eswatini
Soon they will be revolutionizing our scientific understanding of the world, I am surr

>>15438734
Ben Garrison zinged the soience crowd pretty good right there

>>15445079
kek

It's like we want the chinese to win

>>15432116
>>15432131
>>15434832
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/epub/10.1177/26349825231164617

>Anna Krylov
>Born in 1967
>received her M.Sc. in 1990
>Having grown up in the Soviet Union Krylov is particularly attuned to such threats
>Lysenkoism
>1980s
Kek, who writes this tripe?

>>15442388
Africa is redpilled, the only jews in Ghana are in the embassies

>>15432049
No, it is jewish published "scientific" journals that count for nothing.
Merit and ability is the very foundation of science.

>>15445079
Explain how they are nicer places to live than all western and Asian countries

>>15447258
homosexuality is illegal

>>15445079
can't tell if bait or genuine retard

>>15440592
>I don't know why you got that perspective because NZ has always been far worse than Australia in science.
I got that from the discussions in /scg/. And I'd be interested in details you can provide on NZ.
t. /scg/ FAQ editor

>>15447760
Thats a lot nicer than Europe & USA

Science is a process. Science is not a conglomerate or mass procession, that's a faction. You do not say 'science' in the sense of a meta concerning the people who conduct it together. The meta of science is more the act of conducting science generally.

Evidence-based science makes.it sound like science is intellect. That to 'have a worthy say' 'in such a faction' I must back up my claims with evidence. However, doing science doesn't require evidence. That's just for purpose of communication.

The way I see it is, academia is containing science and using it for political and social gain. Appearing as the source of intellect, when in fact, its nature.

>>15446080
We're lucky they're so incompetent at all but reverse engineering, IP theft, and hacking.

>>15448975
Ausfag here, you're right. Funding for R&D in Australia is 10.6B less than it was a decade ago. The newly elected government increased funding by 455M this year but it's still not enough. I know a few scientists that moved to the US due to insecure funding for their research here, and I read some survey which alleged 1 in 5 scientists plan on leaving the profession or moving abroad in the years to come, but we'll see what happens. The issue is that private investors here don't really take risks, and FDI for research is invested elsewhere because we don't really have much history of monetising R&D unlike Israel who receives the most FDI for R&D of any country as a % of their total GDP.

you people are fucking racist and all this shit is just for hiding it. this sub didnt use to be like this fr.

>>15432049
society is collapsing

>>15450407
29 scientists wrote a paper defending merit in science. Science journals rejected it.

>>15448975
>>15449755
Ok, I misunderstood. I thought you meant that somehow Australia was incapable of good science, which is not true at all because there are some relatively under the radar but high quality research places here, but yeah I do agree that funding is a huge huge issue in Australia now.
I'd actually put Australia quite high on the list of countries with relatively high potential in terms of the quality of people but very poor opportunities to use their talents.

>>15450474
australia sux@science

>>15450407
The left has been openly hating and attacking whites people for 30 years.
https://imgur.com/a/tqDLcNH
https://files.catbox.moe/plmjwy.mp4
https://web.archive.org/web/20200829224058/https://imgur.com/a/AHQoq9h
The right is just finally aware of it. People like you suck at everything and then drag the rest of us down with you. Try being good at something for once in your life and earn your way into science like the rest of us.

yal racis

>>15452007
they unironically do a lot of high quality cancer research

>>15450427
really makes you wonder about the values of the people publishing those journals

>>15452763
They are all atheists, atheists don't have values

>>15432049
Imagine how much further ahead we'd be if we'd stuck to merit based science instead of diverging into affirmative action 60 years ago.

>>15438894
Peer review doesn't matter if you argue from logic and easily replicable experiments. People who are skeptical can try the experiments themselves.

>>15452007
Funding issue and a lot of our talent gets sucked to the US because of it. Fuck the liberals.

>>15438894
>It's a shame that some sci-hub-like resource open for discussion and crowd review didn't appear yet.
Opportunity knocks

Now that Japan is emerging from 30 years of stagflation, and the West is just entiering the same plus a lot of other kind sof decline, will Japan be our last best hope?

>>15456514
I'm learning Japanese just in case, but I hope not.

>>15456535
日本の将来は暗い
不毛な勉強はやめてください

>>15432049
You are even dumber than these grifter "authors", OP. Kill yourself.

>>15432166
Lol? Chinks have not contributed a single thing to science, and barely anything to math, in the past thousand years. It's all been jews and whites during the past 200, indians can also be added between 200 years ago and 100 years ago, and add arabs between 1000 years ago and 500 years ago.

>>15456514
Kek. It's not emerging anywhere, if anything it's on the verge of another catastrophic collapse. They already had to benefit from emergency international backstops last year to avoid them having to mass sell US bonds which would have fucked everything.

>>15432049
It's long overdue to publish thing independently. Fuck publishers (those faggots are not even scientists themselves)

>>15455926
>>15438894
pubpeer I guess. Problem is the same as you'd expect from the average level of /sci/tards, though, most comments are bullshit by people who can't read shit DEBOOONKing perfectly fine papers.
Preprint archives like biorxiv, arxiv, or even vixra for the schizos, count also. Some domains like CS heavily use conferences and avoid journals in most cases (not all).
>Why don't true scientists reject major science journals.
Because it's out of our hands. If we publish anywhere else that doesn't count when we get evaluated for postdoc or tenure. In my field, the requirement for postdoc was explicitly: 1 first author paper at a top-tier journal, even if you want to go to the worst lab ever, and it's implied you need at least 2 such papers to get a good chance of going where you wanted.

>>15456572
The problem with trannyop is: if I write a paper called "in defense of merit in science" and the text is "ooga booga bix noob". Should it be published? No? Why not, I'm defending le soience just like you said I should do?
There are already 30 different 'in defense of merit in science'-style articles published everywhere from nature and science to plos and bmc, for example. That's clearly not the problem here.

>>15432057
According to what I can see, there is no relationship between lysenko's rejection of mendelian genetics (by the way, mendel faked his data) and any political ideology, and it was also completely unrelated to decreased crop yields and famine, indeed the famines happened before he started pushing his ideas and he gained support BECAUSE he claimed to have found a solution (despite this being wrong since he was too retarded to see every protocol he used was retarded). The only source I see for his practice possibly being put in practice and causing famine is one sourceless article from The Atlantic, which gets many facts wrong, for example claiming that cold treatment of wheat does not allow conversion to spring wheat even though the correct objection is that more serious biologists as well as farmers were already aware of this dozens to hundreds of years prior.

>>15456580
>if I write a paper called "in defense of merit in science" and the text is "ooga booga bix noob". Should it be published?
Of course. And then it should be indexed and placed into department of science, parascience, pseudoscience or poetry.

>>15456616
kek
Good thing they get to have their paper published in the journal of controversial ideas, then.

>>15456620
Do you even know the difference between parascience and pseudoscience? Do you realize one is not necessarily able to distinguish one from the other?
> the journal of controversial ideas
I would surely read something like that with more explicit interest than I'd have towards reading a journal of ordinary boring shit.

>>15456576
So really the answer is that the system encourages gatekeeping so that only their chosen few can become professionals.

>For example, sexism limited women’s entry into science, and those who helped raise awareness of such issues have done science a service.
A salient point indeed. These researchers are spot on. Great article, OP!

>>15438894
>Why don't true scientists reject major science journals.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/may/07/too-greedy-mass-walkout-at-global-science-journal-over-unethical-fees
>‘Too greedy’: mass walkout at global science journal over ‘unethical’ fees
>Entire board resigns over actions of academic publisher whose profit margins outstrip even Google and Amazon

>>15456535
I learned some while I worked there but I only reached level 3.

>>15456542
Knowledge is rarely futile.

>>15456570
>It's not emerging anywhere, if anything it's on the verge of another catastrophic collapse.
Cite?

>>15434177
this

>>15457212
Those unethical fees all come out of government grant money, journals are paid to shill government propaganda and make it look like its coming from an unbiased source

>>15432072
>leads to a loss of public trust.

The vaccine genocide already did that.

>>15435130
Christianity is the cancer that introduced the poison of mercy, absolut morality and compassion on which leftism is based on.

>>15459859
>>15459859
>The vaccine genocide already did that
This
Now the only science I trust is cosmology and physics. Anything else is a joke. I'd rather hear ramblings about big band than our woke "what is a woman" crap

>>15459871
leftists are atheists, not christians

>>15450407
>this sub
Redditor detected, iniate deadly contermeasures

>>15432049
Merit and ability was replaced with affirmative action for faggots women and shitskins

>>15461696
‘Bioleninism’ describes a familiar phenomenon in Clown World – social rejects coming together to force their will on society at large. A feature of Clown World is that people who normally keep themselves hidden away out of shame are out and proud. Even worse, they are organised and controlling the narrative. Bioleninism is the thread that binds them all. The original Leninism was a kind of slave morality that attracted many of society’s misfits. Much like Christianity in the Roman Empire, which first became popular among slaves, Leninism first became popular among those at the bottom of society. In the case of Russia, it wasn’t slaves but drunkards, prostitutes, petty criminals and those shunned for cruelty. Characteristic of all popular slave moralities is that they bring together the resentful. Christianity did this, the original Communism did this, and now the bottom-feeders of Clown World are coming together to do it again – this is Bioleninism.

>>15432049
merit isn't real. people are biased and decide that someone 'deserves' something based on their subjective likes and dislikes.

ability is real but it is also not straightforward to judge.

>>15432049
So? Scientific research doesn't happen at university in the West, it's all done in non-educational institutions: non-profit organizations, government organizations, private corporate labs, etc. Reminder: NASA landed men on the moon, not MIT. Universities can do whatever they want since they have no profit incentive: this causes them to fuck around with clearly unproductive attitudes. All the niggas who actually know shit don't go into fucking academia, they get funds from Microsoft and then build something
>B-but theyre JOOZ
You can get money from arabs or catholics or or chinese or mexican cartels instead if you're so inclined, fucking dumbass. I'd say most scientific innovations nowadays are sealed from the public behind IP laws.

>>15464070
what a fucking stupid post. holy shit

>>15464070
>NASA landed men on the moon
von braun did, NASA paid his bills and claimed credit for his work