/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15431565
Nowadays it is, because true genius requires both massive intellect and very hard work.
There's this description of lagrange I like, paraphrasing:
"When he was only 18 he threw himself into mathematical studies unassisted, and after a year of incessant toil was already an accomplished mathematician."
"Incessant toil".
Do you know anyone who toils incessantly today?
With no distractions and bullshit?
And what's more important, suppose a man does want to toil incessantly, will he be allowed?
Or will there be various bullshit things tripping him up along the way.
There's still people of very high intellect around, but no more geniuses for this and other reasons, the reasons that you know well.

>>15431572
>And what's more important, suppose a man does want to toil incessantly, will he be allowed
who is stopping him

>>15431574
NTA, but Economic realities unless he's born into wealth. Women if he's any way normal too. Euuughhh why are you reading thaaaaat?

>>15431576
Nobody is actively stopping him then, he is just not smart enough to survive and toil.
>Women
what?

and why were people able to "toil" in the past but not now? Economic realities and women existed then too

>>15431565
I have met a lot of smart people and they never do anything impressive. They are skilled at many things, have excellent grades, speak multiple languages but none of them have discovered something useful. Like all that Python programming and guitar and French lessons are good for nothing at the end

>>15431565
What is your IQ? People naturally tend to use themselves as a baseline for comparison because we've only ever known our own brains. If you are 130+, you probably won't see anyone under 160 as a genius

>>15431572
There are tons of folk who toil incessantly, they just go into finance or healthcare.

I went to school with a handful of folks who were so advanced they had 'independent study' for their math course; all went to med school.

I think genius is about putting things together, but these days that just means building a business.

I think you reach a point where you study physics or something, and realize, this is kind of worthless. Bezos studied physics at university before focusing on business.

Bobby Fisher considered himself a genius who happened to play chess.

Carmack might be a genius if we're talking an assemblage of knowledge such that the application of that expertise shape the world as we know it.

I kind of think genius might be a vibe though. It might be a general state that you reach. We just learn about 'genius' as kids, and as kids you know nothing, so a genius becomes this incredibly impossible thing. But you get older and everyone capable has a role. Genius might just be another role at a societal level.

Call someone a genius and you dont have to doubt what they say. They're part of a pantheon. Seems like advertising to me.

>>15431574
>who is stopping him
You might say everything.
The other anon who replied to you mentioned money, but that was also true back then because access to the good stuff and books required money.
But today?
If you're a random man, and want to learn, you need to deal with a thousand daily bullshit things.
Your job requires emails and bullshit and travel and so on.
Your house requires taxes and other bullshit. Your car. Your wife if you have one has free reign to fuck you up.
If you have nothing, you're financially fucked and can't learn.
If you have something, the little you have comes with multitudes of people, laws, and bureaucracy to maintain.
Life isn't simple when it should be.
And this isn't merely vices I'm talking about but things that you actually need to deal with.
People ought to be left the fuck alone.
Lagrange taught calculus in the artillery school, but he was left the fuck alone.
And academia is pretty much a worthless dead end nowadays, because everyone is drowning in the bullshit of a hypertechnological socially enforced pseudodictatorship.
I'd say that's about it.

>>15431595
>they just go into finance or healthcare.
Hahahaha they toil at bullshit then, don't make me laugh

>>15431565
It's hard to tell smart and genius apart in mundane situations. Many of your professors are probably geniuses, but they don't appear all that extraordinary unless you work closely with them for a while.

>>15431595
>Bezos studied physics at university before focusing on business.
Jesus Christ I almost missed this.
You fucking brought in fucking bezos in a thread about genius.
You fucking worthless moron, get your mamon loving bullshit out of here.
>Carmack
Who the fuck is this.
What discovery did he make.
What did he create.

>>15431565
they exist but are extremely rare (0.1%) 99.9th percentile in intelligence

>>15431608
Idk, a lot of people claim that online at least, but they never seem very special.

>>15431576
This. I spent my last two years of undergrad struggling to stay one step ahead of homelessness, meanwhile I had a fiancee who loved me and wanted me to put a roof over our heads and a baby in her belly. I lined up a job before finals and was married a few weeks after graduation. Who's got time for genius?

>>15431612
People claim all sorts of things. Especially online.

>>15431612
they claim it, it's a prestige thing. people will never admit a lower iq score than what they think is worth their "worth".
IQ tests have to be administered in a clinical setting with a trained psychologist or psychiatrist, otherwise their worthless.

>>15431620
>IQ tests have to be administered in a clinical setting with a trained psychologist or psychiatrist, otherwise their worthless.
Spoken like someone who has never had an IQ test. Wanna know what the psychiatrist does? He gives you the test, and then he calculates the score. This is not like the Rorschach inkblot test where you actually need to explain and draw what you see.

>>15431627
I know exactly how they're done, buddy.

>>15431627
have you ever administered an IQ test?

>>15431620
>clinical setting
The white coats make the difference

>>15431603
>>Carmack
>Who the fuck is this.
>What discovery did he make.
>What did he create.
John Carmack is a computer scientist and one of the lead programmers for id software. He's responsible for a lot of very efficient and surprisingly accurate approximations in floating-point math and physics simulations that made difficult problems computationally accessible to computers.

>>15431603
>What discovery did he make.
>What did he create

3d graphics in video games retard

>>15431702
In other words, he's a programmer. A good programmer.
>>15431731
>video games
You're the retard.
Why in hell should I give a fuck about a maker of video games.
It's in the name, it's a game for fun and of no consequence.

>>15431565
There are many more geniuses around today but its pretty hard to set yourself apart when virtually every scientific/technological discovery (at least the kind that consumers like and put people on pedestals for) has already been made.

>>15431565
You've literally never met someone that clearly processes information or makes disparate connections faster than most people?

>>15432028
Honestly? No, not significantly faster than an average person unless they had prior knowledge of the situation

>>15431988
>You're the retard.
Why in hell should I give a fuck about a maker of video games.

I dunno, why are you poor and why is he rich? Why did solving novel problems make him a notable figure who gets millions of views on Joe Rogan? Enjoy your poverty and obscurity shit

>>15431572
You’re absolutely correct.

>>15431593
Not that anon but I'm 96 IQ and there is nobody on the planet that can wow me on an intellectual level. There are people that might be interesting to listen to, but nobody that blows me away. Maybe I've listened to, too, many smart people, but rarely am I impressed.

>>15431591
They help you get smarter but being smart is not enough, you also need social skills.

>>15431603
He founded a game studio and became a billionaire making violent video games about demons from hell or some shit.

Think of it like Skyrim. You might meet someone with 99 mining and think "this guy's a genius a mining". But all his other skills are at level 1. Most 'genius' just neglect other areas of their lives in order to excel in one specific domain

>>15431565
Anon, my IQ is genius tier and I post on 4chan every day. Midwits just have no fucking clue what a genius acts like.

>>15432098
But the other guy is right. Being famous for video games is very stupid reason for being famous. The guy that discovered the double helix structure of DNA should be famous but no one even knows their names anymore. For example, does anyone here know Norman Borlaug? I bet no one does but that dude was a real genius unlike Carmack

>>15432341
IQ scores are fake. If you cared enough to study for the test then you would get a genius score. Tests do not determine intelligence, tests are at best a measure of your starting ability and not the actual limits of what you can do if you actually apply yourself.

>>15432383
Genius doesn't really mean anything to me if they aren't impressive in any way. Why call them a genius then?

>>15432390
I made
>compilers
>an OS
>homelessness to 6 figures in weeks
>automated my job to working an hour a day
>etc etc
My stats are up there and I’ve done impressive things. I’m not sure what you’re expecting. I can’t shoot lasers out of my eyes. If you believe Jesus was literally God all he did was turn water into wine and a few more assorted miracles. He didn’t magically poof all of earth into Jerusalem like jews wanted him too. Things are rarely what’s expected.

>>15432383
>im secretly a genius, its just that nobody knows it yet!
Definitely haven't that one before

>>15432407
It’s not secret. I’m wealthy and everyone compliments me for being smart.

You are not a genius until you have made a groundbreaking scientific discovery that ends up in future history books. Nobody gives a shit if you made a linux distro by yourself.

>>15432416
Social remembrance isn’t the definition of genius. If Einstein were deported to Africa as a child for being a jew and his biggest accomplishment was eating elephant shit he would still be a genius. Just no one would know about him and someone else would discover relativity.

>>15431574
A simulated world designed as distraction

>>15432403
I'm not impressed.

>>15432465
And the jews weren’t impressed with Jesus. “If you’re God throw yourself off that cross. Conquer the Romans.” “If you’re a genius become a history book celeb and turn a skunk into a crouton by staring at it.”

>>15431988
>Why in hell should I give a fuck about a maker of video games
because he made some interesting and novel contributions to computer science, programming with mathematical tricks that nobody else had ever thought of and you are currently posting on the science and math board

>>15431565
Not enough white people = no more geniuses.
Once globalisation began, society began to reward "hard workers" over real intelligence.
Once the white race dies, out all you will have left is some niggers flashing their gold rims and insectiods flashing their contrived exam scores.

>>15432477
This.
>Idc you made your own compiler. Become famous.
The below 120 IQ bracket worships social mechanics and only takes social mechanics seriously. They probably believe Jesus is literally social mechanics. Someone should try identifying as social mechanics just to fuck with them and see what happens.

>>15432465
I’m impressed, nice work making money off of something that fundamentally has benefit to society. Well done

>>15432490
Isn’t that literally the jewish religion?

>>15432384
>Watsonigga and cricket man
Easy, Next!

I make six figures getting meds to people and I think meds are poison. Going by my example I don’t think big pharma has your best interests in mind.

>>15432384
Carmack is a faggot who’s against unnecessary modularization which is a really stupid thing to oppose. He’s only loved because he’s a celeb and invented fps which is THE most famous and most used goyslop nowadays.

>>15432493
Uhh.. does the Jewish Religion encourage making money off of work that fundamentally benefits society?

>>15432500
Yes. Jews believe in making a positive impact on earth because they don’t believe in an afterlife and they believe business is the way to go about it. I make money poisoning (exaggerating) people.

>>15431565
Highly intelligent people are not always wise and some are so arrogant that they make lazy stupid mistakes

>>15432496
This.
I’m going into Dental surgery because of this. I’m still going to charge thousands per procedure (which is standard), but at least I know I am genuinely improving the situation of their oral health for aesthetics partially but for function primarily.

>>15432506
Wisdom is below logic. Why memorize a map of causes and effects when you can intuit them on the fly?

>>15432505
Uhh good to kno—hey that’s kind of bizarre that they don’t believe they are accountable for their actions except in this life. That sounds kind of like hedonism.

>>15432512
Wisdom is peepee poopoo
I say words pretending that they mean things they don’t. No, words have meanings.

>>15432515
Not sure how that St. Patrick quote relates to wisdom. I think wisdom is about causes and effects not definitions. That’s a language problem not a wisdom problem.

>>15431565
Look man being genius is you putting thousands of hours into your craft; be it math or jenga. Naturally you will develop insight others havent because of the sheer autistic dedication you commited to. Ofcourse along the way you are influenced by many things and these influences along life eventually help develop this insight. If you want to become "genius" just dedicate your every waking hour to your craft ggez

>>15432403
Why is that impressive?

>>15432495
Who proved the future is not computable?

>>15432552
It’s not. Having fans on tictoc and being in a history book is impressive.

>>15432552
You really want to argue making a compiler isn’t impressive when someone is arguing all geniuses are in history books? 4kike picks its battles in a really funny way.

100% of them act normal so as to not have to fend off the mental midgets.

>>15431593
There's a huge difference between those two. Just because the 160 is hiding his power level doesn't mean he isn't capable of wowing the 130. Plus 130s are peak midwit who over inflate their intelligence. If the 160 were to flex his power, it would be very noticeable to everyone.

>>15432028
It's not that he's not met one, it's that he just can't recognize one. The situation with most people is that even if they did, they wouldn't know it because the exceptional individuals are usually not signalling. It would take another exceptional individual to notice them.

>>15432627
Anon, 130 is 2% of the population. My IQ is above that and I can wow just about anybody if I want to. 160 barely exists. 130 gets hate because most geniuses are around that level and a high enough percentage of the population to get noticed. There’s nothing midwit about 130. That’s a cope from jealous actual midwits.

See >>15432390 how poor the level of discussion on this board is. Retards and midwits making non sequiturs. Now the word genius has transformed into some subjective term whose definition depends on the feelings of the low IQ normies. I can see why you don't recognize genius.

>>15431574
Tiktok and youtube

>>15432635
Lol have you heard about perelman or the academic exploits of witten? What do you think their IQ is? Or we can just take it to fiction bearing in mind that characters like Sherlock Holmes or will in good will hunting were based off real life people? Being impressed is also subjective, it doesn't take anything away from the objective quality of genius.

My 120 IQ friend works at Microsoft. My IQ is higher and I make even more than FAGMAN workers. IQ is very good at predicting wealth. Breeding -> IQ -> wealth -> power. Now the question is what leads to good breeding? I think the answer is just racism. Jews are discouraging racism so they can have a competitive advantage in the long run.

Also there's a chart going in ascending order about the ability of each IQ level. Being north of 145 means that you can come up with new concepts, which would probably seem silly to the low IQ midwits. Also, having esoteric and specialized hobbies that seem nonsensical to the rest of the population. Such as cataloguing different kinds of tobacco leaves based on their potency or reconstructing a dead language. All this is being done by an amateur of course and it's bound to be pioneering work because you wouldn't find anyone else in the world doing it. Which would eventually lead to New branches of knowledge being established out of this obscure hobby, probably done by a reclusive hermit. These small nuances would give you insight into the mind of someone with genius tier IQ.

>>15432646
A general rule in writing is to never try to make your characters smarter than you because they won’t pass as smart. Holmes does pass as smart so it’s safe to assume Doyle was smarter than Holmes. Doyle had a degree that would put him around 125 IQ. Meanwhile a faggot is shitting on 130 IQs. Midwits are just triggered their expectation of 130 IQ people doesn’t match reality just like when Jesus didn’t match what the jews wanted.

>>15432658
Lol Doyle had a doctor friend who acted exactly like Sherlock. That's where he gets his inspiration. If you weren't a zoomer newfag you'd know this simple fact.

>>15432666
Sherlock still had to fit in Doyle’s mind because Doyle wrote the fucking book, dipshit.

>>15432669
You are now grasping at straws midwit, come up with a better rebuttal.

>>15432678
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>15432646
Good Will Hunting is extremely cringe. If you watched it, you would understand that it is just a samefag shitpost wrapped into a movie. It could be rescripted by reading Langan arguing with random internet nobodies.
>>15432658
You are talking about OG Holmes. Discombobulate.

>>15432693
The point is that he learns extremely fast. The execution might be distasteful but people like him do exist and flex like that sometimes.

>>15432697
>smart people dunk on da cringetards
Ugh, why do midwits only care about social mechanics. Grow up past highschool.

Because genius is heretical

Fuck it. But I say to you who hear:
Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. I have a 135 IQ and I shalt not dunk on any cringetards today.

>>15431565
Maybe you were the genius all along.

>>15432718
>I shalt not dunk on any cringetards today
Not the hero /sci/ deserves, just the hero /sci/ needs right now.

>>15431565
If you're not at least very smart yourself you're probably never going to be within conversation radius of an actual genius. They get streamed early to specialized schools, end up in the top universities, and tend to get involved in groups of similarly high-achieving people. They end up working at the best teams or research groups in the top companies and universities.

>>15433339
Why do people use genius interchangeably with "very smart"?

>>15433339
You are delusional, the world is a disorder and you are fucking worthless, just like the fact that you are yourself not a genius.

There is no easy filtration process for geniuses and prodigies, the results can be seen by these "prodigies" in the news who don't get anything going and instead you see people like Von Neumann pop up.

You will forever be a worthless midwit keeping geniuses down thinking it's all figured out.

Know your place.

>>15433477
I never said it's interchangeable. I meant you have to be at least very smart to be in the company of geniuses. Maybe 1 out of 100 "very smart" people are actually geniuses.

By genius I mean having the ability to and actually doing something that fundamentally alters human civilization in a better direction; people who leave a meaningful mark.

Most smart people aren't doing that. They're just going to be designing some bullshit dark pattern in Facebook, making BlackRock 0.001% more ROI, or engaging in mediocre pedagogy and scholarship in a second tier university.

>>15433505
Prodigy just means someone who was ahead of his/her peers at an early age. It's kind of bullshit desu because it says nothing about whether you'll maintain the lead as an adult.

A lot of 10 year olds with 150 IQ at age 10 eventually end up with just 110 IQ when they're adults, because IQ measures deviation from the average and they just had an early growth spurt.

>>15433583
Yeah, not nearly enough people realize this. Prodigy could mean genius, but it could also just mean early development. In fact, these days the latter seems much more common than the former. You get kids who operate on a 9th grade level at age 8-10, but then only progress very slowly from that point. Everyone catches back up to them by undergrad.

>>15431572
Pretty much this. There are extremely talented and intelligent people in this world, but you won't know them by their accomplishments because most of them are jaded and burnt out. Nobody is going to toil to create a masterpiece for a bunch of retards who treat him and his work like shit.

A genius doesn't create something because he wants to win some dumb award or have his name printed in the New York Times. He wants humanity to appreciate what he has to give. Or if he is based, he wants God to appreciate it. It is clearer than ever that humanity, up to and including the people who ought to appreciate a work or genius, are too terminally retarded to be worth anyone's time. It almost takes another genius to appreciate what a genius has produced. They are not going to waste their time making anything for mass consumption.

>>15431565
So you're only likely to encounter these people if they have been carefully sheltered so as to prevent them from learning about the world, or if you get to know them and witness their raw intellectual capability in the moments that it is on display. This tends to happen when they are younger and more ambitious.

>>15431591
That's because there is no point to discovering "something useful." Young men dream about the recognition and awards they will get for doing so. When they wisen and mature they realize that the clout is gay and don't even want that.

You could formulate and prove a unified theory of physics tomorrow, and all you would get is a prize from some Jews who shilled the COVID and vaccine scam, congratulations from nerds who can't tie their shoes, the envy of narcissistic self-promoting physics celebrities, and the drool of people like Joe Rogan and Lex Fridman who think aliens are real. Whatever fantasy you have as a kid with dreams of becoming the next Einstein are laughably unrealistic. The world won't thank you for your contribution and the people who do will make you want to vomit.

People who are born with the capacity for intellectual greatness do with their intellect as they choose. There is no point in trying to impress a bunch of retards. That means that they spend most of their time in their heads and don't really talk about their ideas.

>>15431565
no, but its an interesting manifestation.
really smart people can't survive in the academy anymore because it has become a midwits ground hole,
you also don't hear about them since all the midwits occupied the industry and took all the high end positions.
aggregating more midwits into the scientific community caused problematic adjustment, they may seems like they know what they are doing but they can't really assets information nor understand it

>>15432558
Right next to the part about gas chambers. Sounds lit.

>>15432558
This but unironically.

>>15433339
That's a meme. Those are kids who are groomed into being "geniuses." Their parents fast track them through the educational system in a way detrimental to their mental and social development thinking that school is some kind of speed run. They don't end up accomplishing any more than the people who got their degrees the normal way.

>>15432556
Same anon as before,
Idk but I’d argue Laplan
His story about the demon made me realize it would take the computing power of 70 universes(arbitrarily high) to compute this universe, which will never be fundamental design cannot be reached in this universe.

You basically need to be a genius to tell if someone else is a genius, and even then it's iffy.

>>15433814
A genius that does genius-tier deeds is very rare, even among geniuses. Most geniuses don't really have anything to show for it.

>>15433580
There is no such thing as fundamentally altering human civilization in a better direction. Human civilization is a disease on this planet set to destroy everything that is decent and beautiful and potentially humanity itself. You're talking about the industrial revolution and calling making people's lives more vapid and comfortable making human civilization "better." The illusion of progress that has taken place over the course of the past couple hundred years conceals what has actually been the most damaging and regressive time in the history of this planet. We're so lost now that all people can think to do is build spaceships so we can go find other planets to rape.

Geniuses make contributions to art, philosophy, and math. They make contributions to science to the extent that they are great works of math like Einstein's Theory of General Relativity.

Not that Frankenstein horseshit cobbled together like Schrodinger's equation or quantum field theory. That is the work of shallow-thinking midwits.

In any case, geniuses aren't thinking of things that can be used to rape the environment.

>>15433702
They don't stop mentally progressing. They just have a poor work ethic and get burnt out. Some retard who got an A on his organic chemistry exam is not smarter than someone with a highly gifted intellect just because he didn't feel like studying because he doesn't care that much about becoming a doctor for the stupid prestige.

>>15431565
There are lots of people who can become very good and do "genius" work at one specialized thing that they work hard at. A "general" genius like Von Neumann or Edward Witten is much more rare. In short, yes there are incredibly smart people floating around but making new discoveries gets harder and harder, and it also gets harder to separate the genius discoveries from the bullshit people publish so they don't perish.

>>15431572
True and real. Shit got hard for everyone and even geniuses have to deal with parasites, stupid regulations, and morons fucking everything.

>>15433791
You’re a normie but unironically.

>>15431591
>Like all that Python programming and guitar and French lessons are good for nothing at the end
That's because they aren't.

>>15432098
>I dunno, why are you poor and why is he rich?
I'm not poor retard.
>le making money is genius
fuck off.
videogames are of no good consequence.

>>15432474
>because he made some interesting and novel contributions to computer science, programming with mathematical tricks that nobody else had ever thought
and what consequence did these have?
Hardly enough to call genius.
But what would be interesting, and would support your point, is actual discussion on those points.
You and the others haven't done that, because in reality no one cares about his optimization tricks.
he's famous for being a good video game programmer. that's a meme reason for calling someone a genius.
Actually not even that. He's famous for the success of his videogames, not the quality of the programming per se.
he's apparently now working on "AGI", and I don't need to tell you where that's going.
My point stands, because video games are of no consequence.

I hate carmack so fucking much. Every AAA title is an fps because of that faggot. No, he’s not a genius programmer. He’s just some douche who started one of the things in normie culture, a goyslop generator if you will.

>>15432499
Carmack is loved and considered a genius because he spent years alone in a monastic state pushing the boundaries of computer graphics research while bringing joy to millions.

>>15433757
I fully agree that clout, fame, and recognition are not good motivators because they're completely hollow.

However I don't think geniuses need strong motivations to do what they do. They just keep taking the next logical step from where they are. For ex I don't think Zuckerberg made TheFaceBook at Harvard with the idea of turning it into a multi-billion company. He just kept taking the logical next step available to him at every point until he got to where he is.

High-achieving people don't have a red-hot burning motivation with Top Gun music playing in their heads for 16 hours a day like low-achieving people tend to think.

They just do what they do because they can and they're curious to see where the journey goes.

>>15431565
Good. It's a fucking horror when you encounter someone who brain mogs you.
https://youtu.be/-hUcXHrZMn4

>>15431565
This is a good thread. But somehow I feel it belongs more on /his/