/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15418948
No one should trust authority blindly again, from the scientific field or otherwise.

>>15418948
Go back to your containment board, incel.

>>15418948
Thank goodness! I'm sure that /sci/ will be happy to hear this great news.

>>15418948
>CO2 in the atmosphere is making the environment healthier and more productive
You do realize that's not what the study is saying? Greening =/= healthier and more productive.

>>15419073
>le nature bad

>>15418948
Venus has increased CO2 in its atmosphere and it looks quite nice actually. It has a healthy and productive environment that we all could enjoy and it makes me question why we're going to mars instead

Honestly humans are roaches who need to be culled, hard. If climate change can do it (it can) why stop it?

>>15419338
The atmospheric pressure is so high on Venus that its atmosphere contains an order of magnitude more gas than Earth's in a smaller space. Though even with those challenges if a life form was seeded there it would become habitable eventually, just like Earth did during the oxygen catastrophe era.

>>15419360
>Though even with those challenges if a life form was seeded there it would become habitable eventually
I dont think that's true

>>15419077

>>15419360
venus' atmosphere is supercritical co2, which has such different properties from co2 gas that it may as well be an entirely different molecule

>>15419360
The theory is that Venus used to be like earth
>Venus once likely had an Earth-like climate. According to recent climate modelling, for much of its history Venus had surface temperatures similar to present day Earth. It likely also had oceans, rain, perhaps snow, maybe continents and plate tectonics, and even more speculatively, perhaps even surface life
https://astronomy.com/news/2021/01/venus-was-once-more-earth-like-but-climate-change-made-it-uninhabitable
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/nasa-climate-modeling-suggests-venus-may-have-been-habitable/

Some extra CO2 in our atmosphere is probably fine for the short term I don't know but there is an upper limit (runaway greenhouse effect) and if we go past that we're in trouble even if it looks like things are a lot greener etc. Otherwise we'll end up like Venus

>>15418948
Oh great, it's greening the 15% that's left

So nice to hear good news about the environment for a change instead of the constant doom and gloom from the moaners

>>15419614
this
its ridiculous that the people who call themselves "environmentalists" never have anything nice to say about our wonderful planet, the best one in the whole universe

>>15419646
They sure are good at demanding gibes tho

>>15419442
Do people still believe this nonsense? That's a fringe theory that nobody takes seriously, and that never has been taken seriously.

>>15420451
It's common knowledge that there's a decent chance it was an earth like planet
>Water might have formed oceans on Venus before runaway greenhouse effects increased the atmospheric temperature
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus
>DAVINCI (Deep Atmosphere Venus Investigation of Noble gases, Chemistry, and Imaging) is a planned mission for an orbiter and atmospheric probe to the planet Venus
>The measurements taken by DAVINCI will investigate the possible history of water on Venus and the chemical processes at work in the unexplored lower atmosphere
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAVINCI

>>15419646
>reeee Earth sucks!!!
>i hate humanity!!!
>t. environmentalists

>>15418981
why does good news about the environment make you so angry?

>>15419338
What do you think happens when you are dehydrated and ingest 500ml of water?
What do you think happens when you are dehydrated and ingest 500 liters of water?

>>15422595
He won't answer a question like that because he knows he's not arguing in good faith.

>>15418948
We evolved in a time when there was lots of ice on the planet. we are not genetically built for an environment with pure green everywhere. we need the cold, the cold makes ice, ice stores water, humans need water, snow and ice create rivers, which we drink from.

>>15422744
see this, its beautiful isnt it?

You know why its beautiful? Because our species evolved in this type of environment. The all green environment is something like what the dinosaurs evolved in.

>>15422744
>We evolved in a time when there was lots of ice on the planet.
No actually, the last ice age nearly destroyed humankind.

>>15422749
You need these to drink fresh water, no snow, no water, no cool weather, good luck keeping those diseases down, tropical environments are breeding grounds for viruses and diseases.

>>15418948
lol
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/human-activity-in-china-and-india-dominates-the-greening-of-earth-nasa-study-shows

>>15423075
>nasa
government propaganda, not a valid source of scientific information

>>15422750
wrong

>>15423075
>NASA
LOL
they can't even launch a rocket, they're morons ever since the lost their operation paperclip slaves

>>15419442
Its extremely unlikely, the CO2 we're pumping was once above the ground in biomass and in CO2. Unless you tell me that we can make all Carbon below earth and biomass become CO2 and go beyond any level reached before in geological history then thinking that we can become venus is far fetched. Worst case scenario it will become unbearable for us and lots of species and by then we will stop pumping CO2 be it because we died or we found another way. Thousands of years later it will find its way back to normal through natural carbon capture means like it did before.

>>15425561
We're currently at levels of CO2 4x lower than the optimal range for life on Earth.

>>15418948
>good news /sci/
>this article is telling me what I want to believe

>>15425561
CO2 is not a "greenhouse gas".
Mars has 2000% more CO2 per unit surface area than Earth does and Mars has no measurable greenhouse effect. Mars should have 50ºC of greenhouse effect if doubling Earth's CO2 levels is going to cause 2.5ºC rise in average temperatures. In the past 50 years CO2 levels have gone up large amounts with no change in average temperatures on Earth. CO2 is not a "greenhouse gas"

>>15426762
True.

>>15426762
exactly . Yours is the only Intellectualy sound take on this thread.

>>15426762
now i kind wish that co2 was really a greenhouse gas, +50ºC would get mars to just above the freezing point of water, in comfy zone

>>15418948
True and real. Globohomo wants to destroy mankind, and that is a fact. Remember that globalists are demons, therefore there is no sin when doing harm unto them, and their property is free to be taken.

>>15422478
He has spent the last decade of his life believing the world is about to end. If he accepts anything that goes against this idea, he will realize that he basically wasted a good portion of his life deep in nihilism.

>>15427759
This. It's just crab bucketing.

Honestly if you want the actual opinion of someone who was literally as a CHILD in the 1990s worried about climate child, who due to that considered buying an electric vehicle back then (back then your image of "electric car" looked like a reclining bike with a eggshell cover, I am not fucking kidding, 90s kids will remember this) -- I just fully stopped caring, and even started to embrace climate change a bit. It's the most laughable apocalypse ever, more than acid rain. At least the ozone hole had the potential to really increase skin cancers (even though it only formed over the antarctic). Climate change isn't even comparable to the actual bad consequence of more CO2, which is ocean acidification.
It takes a bit cognitive dissonance, if you are sufficiently informed, to unite the belief climate change is some grand killer with the knowledge we are currently in an ice age with a rather unimpressive cover of green areas of the planet; actually, the ratio of steppe and desert areas to forested and wet areas is somewhat disturbing, if we compare to previous eras where this ratio was comparatively minimal, even extremely recently like the green (savanna) Sahara period, which was due to milankovich cycles and not CO2, yes. But increased CO2 will objectively aid the re-greening of the planet, at the scales of increased CO2 we are talking about.
We still need to limit the rate at which we increase CO2, due to mentioned ocean acidification, but the fact that it is rising isn't the issue here.

>>15428323
Ocean acidification seems like a scam too. Corals and shelled sea animals evolved when the CO2 concentrations were way higher than they are now.

>>15419442
The Earth can't experience a runaway greenhouse effect until the sun starts turning red many millions of years from now. Neither natural catastrophe or human pollution could ever turn Earth into venus, only cosmic changes, clathrate gun hypothesis was a retarded fringe theory.

>>15428323
>even though it only formed over the antarctic
Australians might have a word with you

>>15418981
>radical facts
>reals not feels
sci is the new controversial containment board. go back to >>>/lgbt/

>>15422753
There isn't a single snow capped mountain for nearly 3000km's from my city, and most streams are ephemeral. We aren't monkeys that need rivers anymore, nor do our crops with modern irrigation schemes. Rain water harvesting, ground water pumping, and desalination are more efficient and healthier to manage compared to the toxic sludge that 90% of the world's rivers contain.

>>15428392
>compared to the toxic sludge that 90% of the world's rivers contain.
wypipo don season dey rivers

>>15422749
those mountains will be green as soon as the snow melts

>>15428323
oceanic co2 is all converted to oceanic plants, there is no issue with acidification, its just another fake story created to appeal to low iq hysterics

>>15422728
atheists have no faith, they don't know what faith is, they never learned, nobody ever taught them

>>15418948
>increased CO2 in the atmosphere is making the environment healthier and more productive
I know that for sure, theres a lot more deer and elk out in the woods when I go hunting these days than there were 20 years ago when I got started

>>15418948

This can be true at the same time as there are also unwanted effects. Nobody ever said the reason AGW is bad is because it would decrease greening. It was known from the start it would increase it. But that's an oil industry shill distraction from stuff like oceanic acidification, desertification and mass extinctions of thermally sensitive species.

450 gigatonnes and growing fast!!
plants will dominate you puny humans

>>15419442
>Venus once likely had an Earth-like climate.
Proof?
>According to recent climate modelling, for much of its history Venus had surface temperatures similar to present day Earth.
Kek.
>It likely also had oceans, rain, perhaps snow,
Proof?
>maybe continents and plate tectonics,
Proof?
>and even more speculatively, perhaps even surface life
Proof?

So let me get this right. If we don't allocate trillions of dollars toward making our lives miserable our planet will become uninhabitable the likes of Venus. The reasoning? Because we tuned our models to Venus. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

>>15420812
>It's common knowledge that there's a decent chance it was an earth like planet
Quantify it. What chance?
>>Water might have formed oceans on Venus before runaway greenhouse effects increased the atmospheric temperature
With what degree of confidence?
>>DAVINCI (Deep Atmosphere Venus Investigation of Noble gases, Chemistry, and Imaging) is a planned mission for an orbiter and atmospheric probe to the planet Venus
>>The measurements taken by DAVINCI will investigate the possible history of water on Venus and the chemical processes at work in the unexplored lower atmosphere
So no data? All speculative? Speculation = knowledge? You climate shills are fucking crazy. Soothsaying doomsdayers proselytizing their religion.

>>15422750
>the last ice age nearly destroyed humankind.
Proof?

>>15432395
>desertification
Isn't the opposite happening?

>>15432845
Soienc says that there was a population bottleneck during the last ice age cataclysm.

>>15422753
>what is the water table

>>15418981
What would having sex change?

>>15433916
that is what the study in OP shows

wow, healthier environment, great news

>>15435202
>>15419614
>>15419646
>>15419002

all praise life giving carbon dioxide
we could not live without it
the more we have, the better off we are

>>15418981
Time for your first period you stupid moron.

>>15419073
Learn to read you stupid idiot.

>>15419346
Only you, jews and niggers. That vermin needs to be exterminated.

>>15419338
That is another planet you stupid moron.

>>15437213
OK, sorry

>>15419346
same can be said about covid, if overpopulation is so terrible, why was the vax even considered important. could've just let the virus run it's course an solve the overpopulation problem for us without wasting $20 trillion on a vax that wasn't even functional anyway

>>15428324
good point and it seems that none of the ocean acidification hysterics could reply to it

By 2060 an acre of farmland will be twice as productive as it was in 1900, we truly live in a glorious age, all thanks to the wonders of fossil fuels. Amazing we got this lucky completely by accident, its almost as if we've been blessed or guided by a higher power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTozW3ZC6_I

>>15428365
Even when the sun hits the cepheid variable stage, it will be larger, but have lower surface brightness and will not cause any substantial warming here on Earth

>>15440633
All carbs with no nutrients.

>>15441322
You are desperately trying to invent a downside to increased atmospheric CO2 so you can have an excuse to play victim, but plants with more CO2 in the atmosphere they breathe grow faster and root faster and deeper, they get to the nutrients in the soil quicker and when they die, they leave a greater mass of nutrient roots to rot. There is no downside to more CO2 in the air, a healthier environment is the only result.

>>15419073
>Greening =/= healthier and more productive.
explain

If CO2 decreases by 70% every living creature on Earth will die, if CO2increases by 400% there will be 400% more life on Earth.
Its fairly obvious what our goals should be.

It's clearly a matter of tradeoffs and optimizing for multiple parameters. CO2 is good for plants, but too much can warm the Earth and cause crop failure. Just as H2O is good for plants, but too much can flood the Earth and cause crop failure.

How much warming will actually occur from increased CO2 levels is still a matter of dispute. We won't end up like Venus since life thrived at atmospheric CO2 levels around 1500 ppm, which is about 3 times higher than now. Though humans suffer from reduced performance and cognition when indoor air quality reaches such concentrations.

That said, in the context of alternative energies to hydrocarbons it's generally wise to use resources which do not increase our dependence on hostile foreign regimes. The West has enough fissionable mineral deposits to power civilization for thousands if not millions of years. Though this sort of long-termist thinking seems misguided when AGI is likely to arise in the next couple of decades. The risk of climate change seems quaint in comparison.

>>15442601
>but too much can warm the Earth and cause crop failure
CO2 does not cause "global warming". The more rapidly plants are able to grow, the more efficiently and quickly they can sequester solar radiation in biological matter.

>>15419338
>why we're going to mars instead
The terraforming of Mars is actually gonna increase its CO2 level to become habitable for plants.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2175414-terraforming-mars-might-be-impossible-due-to-a-lack-of-carbon-dioxide/

>>15419360
Venus is almost identically sized to earth. Its rotation is absolutely dogshit with a day lasting longer then a year. No rotation=no magnetosphere. No magnetosphere=solar wind blowing straight through you. Solar wind blows though and strips the atmosphere of all light elements like hydrogen. Leaving only CO2 behind to cook it into the hell it is

Venus is a failed earth and no terraforming with mere biosphere transplants is going to save it. Needs to be spun up. If the human monkey can actually do that some day chances are its far easier to just build new giant habitats straight into preferential orbits

climate doomsday cultists have no case with Venus as its disfunction is fundamental

>>15419442
post venus rotation cycle cultist

>>15442722
venus' CO2 is supercritical, which is so different from CO2 in a gas state that it may as well be an entirely different molecule

>>15442376
Climate change is increasing the bulk plant matter in the environment, sure, but it can't change the micronutrients inside the plants, so vitamins and minerals. Basically so while there is more plant matter, it's basically all just carbs, so insects/grazers are having to eat more and more plant matter to get the stuff they really need: micronutrients. So paradoxically climate change is causing mass starvation in many species, and many grasshopper and other insect dieoffs have been attributed to it. The massive loss in insects we've had since the 70s can be partially attributed to climate change, next to insecticides and topsoil loss. Really all three are intimately intertwined.

>>15445119
false, plants root deeper and faster with more CO2, allowing them to access minerals that would not have otherwise been accessible.
adding more CO2 to the environment will only make all life more healthy and more bountiful.

>>15442548
Thats why environmentalism is called a death cult, they're campaigning against life on Earth.

tfw you happen to live in the red-purple area

more CO2 is good for the environment

>>15445774
What are you doing to ruin the environment in your area? Everywhere else is flourishing massively

>>15447709

>>15438791
media programmed midwits never have consistent worldviews

>>15428323
>>15428324
If I didn't know any better I'd think they WANT everyone dead.
But nah...

>>15449546
They can't have that, they need to be flexible and shift their views when their masters says so

>>15419338
Venus is a young planet, idiot. Give it another billion years or so.

>>15419442
Shoot, if only the Venusian people had just paid their carbon tax!

/sci/ is so fucking dead. It's literally just 95% /pol/tard cattle parroting what they have been unwittingly instructed by their oilkike overlords to say.

>>15450927
>I hate /sci/
why are you here?

>>15450929
I come now and then to have a good laugh at /pol/tard newfags but also reminiscence about what used to be

>>15450932
https://www.4channel.org/faq#contribution
>What is considered positive contribution?
Our definition of "positive contribution" is the submission of substantial, helpful, friendly, and humorous posts to the boards, along with the uploading of quality images and files. We feel that positive contribution should be treated as a way of donating to 4chan without actually having to fork over cash.
>Why is contribution so important?
Contribution is important because it is what drives this website. If we didn't have a dedicated pool of users who frequently contribute, we'd be yet another stagnant run of the mill forum. But we aren't. By having an increasing number of diverse and quality contributors, 4chan becomes more unique, interesting, and enjoyable to use.
>How can I become a good contributor?
It's really quite easy. If you have something to add to a topic: reply. If you have an interesting, high quality, neat, rare, etc. picture: upload it! Share your mind and image collections with us. Don't just leech! Give back to the community which you take from. It's a simple and effective way to grow the site. Before contributing, make sure you're acquainted with the rules.
>What is "shitposting"?
Shitposting is "knowingly contributing low quality, off-topic, or ill intentioned posts.

This is a thread about atmospheric science, you are knowingly contributing low quality, off-topic posts, which makes you a shitposter.
If you think the board is bad, its because of you and your ilk failing to make positive contributions as outlined in the site FAQ.

>>15450953
Why do you pretend to know anything about science? You're a burgerflipper. Stop coming here and shitting up the board with your garbage

>>15418948
Its been well known for a long time that adding CO2 improves the environment

>>15419338
waow! it's almost as if it's another planet that is over 200 million kilometers closer to the sun

>>15451400
>I hate people who perform useful tasks for a living

>>15452777
No one said that. But just like I don't have any opinion whatsoever on plumbing, you retards need to stop deluding yourselves into that you're in any way equipped to talk about these things. You're not. You're just a /pol/tard shitting up the board with your low IQ shit lmao

So you agree iq matters

Iq is 85 percent heritable so you agree niggers are naturally stupider than whites

>>15453053
> iq
globohomo buzzword
> genes
shill

>>15453053
the n word is racist

>>15418948
>this article says that increased CO2 in the atmosphere is making the environment healthier
No, it says:
>significant greening ... due to rising levels of atmospheeric carbon dioxide...
>greening represents an increase in leaves
It is a mistake to paraphrase that which you do not comprehend.

>>15454783
you seem really upset that the increase in atmospheric co2 has a positive result on the environment
why does it bother you so much to find out that co2 is good for the environment, why aren't you happy about the good news?

>>15455121
It doesn't fit their doomsday narrative du jour

>single-handedly exposes climate cultists

>>15455121
For NPCs, 90% of their beliefs are 90% just social plumage. 5% of their beliefs are even 99% social plumage. Of course, they are not usually aware of it, so they can't even own it like e.g. influencers do.

>>15452093
they knew about the value of CO2 in agricultural greenhouses over 100 years ago

>>15418948
That is good news, more robust plant growth is good news for every living creature on Earth.

>>15453033
>I don't have any opinion whatsoever on plumbing
you do, you clearly consider people who perform those necessary tasks to be beneath you status-wise. meanwhile you've never accomplished anything of any value in your entire life. installing a toilet is more worthwhile than what you've done, so your perception of status is clearly just a pleasing delusion you've created for yourself

>>15460804
This quote literally applies to all bluecollar workers. I can call you all sorts of garbage, but the moment I point out that you're bluecollar worker, however innocently, you guys instantly recoil and get defensive and cry like bitches. Don't get me wrong, while there is no point in measuring 'worth' of someone's work, I do appreciate the work that bluecollars do and admit that I probably wouldn't be able to do much of it. But when that's said, when a bluecollar worker thinks he's somehow equipped to speak on anything in the realm of science, that's when it gets really embarrassing. You don't. You don't know what you're talking about, just like I don't know shit about plumbing or fixing things with my hands. Stay in your lane, you fucking cuck. Stop filling /sci/ with your garbage. This board has gone to the fucking shitter since covid because of retards like you

>>15461370
>when a bluecollar worker thinks he's somehow equipped to speak on anything in the realm of science, that's when it gets really embarrassing
for the soience nerds, who have no experience with anything of any meaningful value. publishing tall tales in replication crisis journals only makes you a liar and possibly delusional if you believe your own lies. seeing terminally incompetent academics pontificate on anything other than how to get good grade, how to get you falsehoods to pass peer review or how to get daddy to send you more money is a farce, nobody who is as terminally separated from reality as the soience gang is should ever proclaim themselves expert at anything other that getting their name on inconsequential publications that nobody reads
>I don't know shit about plumbing or fixing things with my hands
you are sheltered and separated from reality, you don't have any expertise in anything other than repeating what you've memorized from a book. the things that you admit having no ability with encompass all of tangible reality. huffing your own farts over your gpa doesn't accomplish anything, but thats all you're capable of, you can't do anything thats of any value, you have no skills whatsoever. someone who can do plumbing had demonstrable capabilities in successfully manipulating the irl real world and might also have other valuable knowledge and insight, you have no such capabilities or promise, you're just a windbag who like to hear himself pontificate, but you can't possibly have any valuable insight because you have zero valuable skills

This has been known for decades that extra CO2 is good for a lot of tropical plants. The issue is that non of the plants it’s good for are edible to humans. Also having more tropical plants barely sucks any extra CO2 out of the atmosphere, all it does is slightly reduce the amount that humans are adding to it yearly. And the CO2 in the plants is still in the environment just stored inside a plant until it dies.

>>15461383
Jesus christ, I've talked with sour grapes bluecollar workers before but it's been a while since it's been someone coping this hard. You're exactly proving my point that there is nothing that a bluecollar worker likes less than to be called a bluecollar worker. You guys are walking around with the biggest fucking inferiority complexes. To compensate, you're naturally inclined to take the stance opposite of whatever the scientific consensus is. There is simply no motivation other than contrarianism and envy. Your masters obviously love this fact and engineer you towards ideas that support them by dressing them as ideas that the scientific community rejects out of malice, so now you're in this thread, thoughtlessly defending oilkike propoganda and you don't even realise it. They got you fucking fooled like the cattle you are. Actually pathetic

>>15461407
> anime like pic
> scientific consensus (cattle mindset)
> kikes
shill bingo!

>>15461407
>Your masters
if you have an emergency in your home such as an electrical socket that isn't working (1800s tech) or a toilet that isn't flushing (1800s tech) or a structural issue (ancient tech 1000s of years old), there is no ideological purity test for who you're going to pay to fix it for you, but if you contradict the government approved soience dogma enforced via peer review then thats the end of your career. You'll never get another free money gibes grant again after the first transgression. You aren't free to express your own opinions or think for yourself even slightly, you are a slave to your masters.

>>15461455
If your plumber completely wrecks his toilet, do you call on him and pay him the next time you need something fixed? Obviously you do not. And likewise, obviously some university is at liberty to not keep funding some retard who consistently shits out retarded papers that for some reason disagrees with the consensus, unless he has a really, really strong case. That said, you'd be surprised with how much you can get away with as long as you don't say something that's blatantly racist or whatever. If anything, these "researchers" you're talking about aren't axed fast enough. Again, you are literally just regurgitating a carefully crafted image of a scientist who is a slave to dogma, a dogma set by some shadowy, unknown entity for shadowy, unknown reasons, without realising it's been created by oilkikes and the like to control you low IQ, uneducated masses and force you into voting for politics that benefits their bottomline. You are the cuckest of cucks

>>15461469
>If your plumber completely wrecks his toilet, do you call on him and pay him the next time you need something fixed?
right, they have to be good at their jobs and have a firm grasp on reality. soientists can waste billions in gibes grants, produce nothing and get their papers retracted without consequence, its a job that any idiot could do, there is no penalty for incompetence, so its a job that attracts incompetent people

>>15461488
>soientists can waste billions in gibes grants, produce nothing
>there is no penalty for incompetence
Except you just said people are removed at will when they continuously produce work that is useless, that is, work that's misguided by silly ideological reasons and disagrees with 99% of scientists. You need to get your narrative straight for a moment. It's a good thing these oilkikes got you guys to shill for them for free, because the work you're doing is worth absolutely 0 cents

>>15461499
>that is, work that's misguided by silly ideological reasons and disagrees with 99% of scientists.
Showing your hand.

>>15461499
>disagrees with 99% of scientists.
what if they disagree with the stupidest 99% of scientists? the midwit consensus is necessarily going to be low iq

>>15463396
Einstein disagreed with 99% of scientists

>>15463396
consensus is literally belief, it's not science.

Sulfur has far more of an effect on climate and temperature than CO2 and this is visible measurable and demonstrable every fucking time a volcano erupts. They put far more CO2 in the atmosphere than Mankind does and it's never the amount of CO2 that matters but how sulfuric the volcano is.

CO2 it’s what plants crave