/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15349240
CO2 is actually one of the weaker greenhouse gasses iirc. H2O is a big one. That might make the difference.

>>15349240
Mars does obviously experience a greenhouse effect, but it's much farther from the sun. Yes sun can influence climate. More than one factor can influence the climate. No this information isn't shocking to anyone who's not an imbecile.

>>15351785
>nasa
soience shill organization run by and for political activists. if they say something is true then you know its a lie.
>adding 0.01% co2 to the atmosphere is going to increase the greenhouse effect by 10%
only an idiot or someone who is ignorant of math & physics could believe that
>graph starts in little ice age to help create the illusion of global warming
errrry single time

>>15351799
This is the most low IQ way to be contrarian.

Climate change is probably occurring, but it's not going to be the end of the world, and the remedy is not reducing standards of living. We should build out advanced nuclear, develop hot rock geothermal energy, and fund further research into fusion power. With cheap and abundant clean energy a vast array of social, economic and environmental problems are solved.

>>15349240
You don't even need to leave earth, just look at the past and understand causality (or lack thereof).

Inb4 positive feedback, no it still doesn't negate causality.

>>15351799
>muh IPCC, muh nasa
cope and sneed. Arrhenius was right
>>15351809
agreed. I will not eat the bugs. I will do my part by WFH and not buying hoards of cheap chinese shit.

>>15351785
Your graph is misleading.
When did we start covering the planet with vast regions of concrete?

>>15351834
the graph seems to imply temperature drives co2 changes, no?

>>15351892
Not necessarily, it only implies a correlation, however temperature reacts quicker (to whatever outside metric) compared to carbon dioxide, which lags behind.

And then there's estimates about different periods of earth all together, like jurassic with +4°C average temperature but 100 (!!!!!!!11) times more co2, compared to today. It's crazy.

>>15351555
Water is indeed the most significant gas contributing to the greenhouse effect on Earth. Furthermore Earth's surface is largely covered in liquid water that traps a lot of heat.

Also Mars is on the average roughly 1.524 times further from the sun, witch means it gets only around 43% of the solar irradiance that Earth gets

>>15351928
>like jurassic with +4°C average temperature but 100 (!!!!!!!11) times more co2, compared to today. It's crazy.
believing that adding 0.01% co2 to the atmosphere will increase the greenhouse effect by 10% is whats crazy. you'd have to be very stupid or legitimately insane to believe in it.

>>15352257
or brainwashed by television and public school

>>15351555
>CO2 is actually one of the weaker greenhouse gasses iirc.
In that case, how is adding 0.01% more CO2 to atmospheric content supposed to increase the greenhouse effect by 10%?

>>15352004
Ban water! Save the planet! Make water illegal!

>>15352004
what % of our tiny greenhouse effect is due to water & what % co2?

>>15349240
>Farther away with a much smaller atmospheric volume than earth
No problem

did you just ignore the literal first sentence where it said earth has about 60 times more atmosphere then mars?

>>15357573
Mars has over 20x more CO2 per unit surface area in it's atmosphere than Earth does. Mars also has no detectable greenhouse effect. CO2 is not a "greenhouse gas".

>>15357341
If you mean what effect does human production of steam into atmosphere do, it is nothing because steam in atmosphere quickly turns into rain, so there is never too much water in atmosphere. As for how much of the total greenhouse effect is caused by water or CO2, I cant find that, but along with methane it is probably enough to cause the tiny 1 degree Celsius shift over the past century. Reducing water in atmosphere to combat it is impossible because it requires enough water to rain, so the whole system is self correcting.

Though keep in mind this is not my area of expertise, I just know about it slightly more then the politicians in that other thread saying CO2 concentration in the air is around 5 percent

>>15358601
>Mars also has no detectable greenhouse effect
source on that?

>>15358601
if co2 is not a greenhouse gas then how much warmer would mars currently be if it was?

>>15358635
European space agency findings

>>15358678
link?

>>15358650
If "the soience" says that adding 0.01% more co2 to Earth's atmosphere causes a 10% increase in the greenhouse effect, or about 3ºC then Mars should be about 60ºC warmer if CO2 was a greenhouse gas, which it is not.
The surface temp on Mars is pretty much exactly what one would expect it to be on the basis of solar flux if the planet had no atmosphere at all.

retards itt. mars has a stronger greenhouse effect, but less radiation reaches it so you're not amplifying as much heat. maybe an analogy will help you dunces. what's a larger value:
>10^(5)
>3^(9)
let a^(b) represent
>a is radiation reaching planet
>b is amplification of radiation from greenhouse gas
what? how can 3^(9) be less than 10^(5)?

>>15360324
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_equilibrium_temperature

>>15349240
Mars has almost no atmosphere at all.

>>15360461
Mars has over 20x more CO2 than Earth. If that counts as nothing the the CO2 we have here also counts as nothing. That planetary equilibrium temperature link is high school level physics, but its very accurate. Solar flux accounts for nearly all of the heat of both Mars & Earth, CO2 is a non factor in both cases.

>>15360484
>Mars has over 20x more CO2 than Earth.
And virtually nothing else, the atmosphere is virtually nonexistent, so of course it's cold.

>>15360487
thinness of atmosphere shouldn't make a difference if co2 is such a powerful greenhouse gas

>>15361841
CO2 is not a particularly strong greenhouse gas, but more to the point, there's fuck-all for it to warm up on Mars.

*yawn* the only interesting planets have a protective magnetosphere. Anything without a magnetosphere is a hunk of trash

>>15356751
>>15352257
Where are you getting your numbers from? There's been around a 35% increase in CO2 since the Industrial Revolution

>>15351881
What is the difference between covering it in concrete and covering it with bricks?

>>15349240
There is about 172 kg of atmosphere over each square meter on the mars.
On the earth there is about 10 000 kg of atmosphere over each square meter.
(10 000 / 172) / (0.0007 / 0.019) ~ 1.578
Or in other words, on earth infrared energy has to go through ~1.6 times as much CO2 before it leaves the planet.
And that is just CO2, there is a lot of other green house gases with a much higher green house potential, like water.

>>15361878
what is 35% of 0.028%

>>15364830
What are you talking about? Are you the same idiot who thought CO2 had only increased by 0.01%? Maybe try doing a little research and coming up with a coherent argument before coming back to this thread

>>15356751
Your numbers are wrong like the other anon said, but the answer is feedback loops.
Small amount of CO2 increase -> slightly increased temperature -> slightly more h2o evaporation -> slightly greater increased temperature

>>15365277
>slightly more h2o evaporation
more clouds = less sunlight reaching the ground

>>15366638
At higher temperatures (evaporation rates) there can be more water in the atmosphere before 100 % relative humidity is reached and clouds form.

>>15366667
that explains why it never rains in the tropics

>>15366667
why don't you put your narcissistic savior complex to good use and find a problem which genuinely exists to focus on fixing? how come you people aren't ever able to develop reality based power fantasies?

>>15366638
Sunlight can obviously pass through cloud cover, but radiated heat from the Earth's surface is more easily absorbed by cloud cover.
Water is an extremely efficient absorber of radiated heat (this is how microwaves work), but is, again obviously, much less efficient at absorbing visible and ultraviolet light.

>>15366685
Look up equilibrium vapor pressure. It rises with temperature.

>15366692
if you don't want answers, why are you even here, reading replies?

>>15366697
That's not really it, no.
Sunlight is absorbed by water droplets and re-emitted. It's scattered. If it'd simply pass through, you wouldn't see clouds. More clouds do, in fact, lead to less heating of the earth. But you're right that radiated heat gets absorbed more. So ultimately more water in the atmosphere has a positive green house effect.

And microwaves work slightly different. The earth radiates mainly energy in the infrared spectrum. Infrared light excites vibration. Microwaves emit, well, microwaves. Those excite rotation. The rotation of the water molecules lead to friction which produces the heat.

that's all folks, another scam exposed

>>15366848
Belief in global warming has nothing to do with science, it has everything to do with messiah complex mental illness and selfish desire to be seen as a hero

>>15364830
.0098
the percentage signs cancel out and the number becomes unitless

>>15366781
>Sunlight is absorbed by water droplets and re-emitted.
water is transparent in the peak range of solar emission

>>15361853
>CO2 is not a particularly strong greenhouse gas
so what is everyone chimping out about co2 causing the end of the world?
do they have ulterior motives for all their expressed emotion over co2?

>>15358628
>>If you mean what effect does human production of steam into atmosphere do, it is nothing because steam in atmosphere quickly turns into rain, so there is never too much water in atmosphere.
that's with the current state of affair. now replace all the billions of motors with hydrogen motors pissing water 24/7 over 100 years and guess what happens to your ''there is never too much water in atmosphere.''

>>15352257
Greta never learned how to do basic math, thats what powers the beliefs of these people. That and mental illness

>>15377349

>>15372144
They can use co2 to justify genocide, what do you think zerocarbon means?

>>15377365
But why though? Who are all these people who are happy to get paid to write whatever the payer wants them to write, knowing that they manipulate perception on a large scale? Are they even human? It doesn't make sense to me. There's too much emphasis on elites and not enough on the faceless masses that execute what elites want. Why?

>>15377809
It's just a job.

>>15377874
Banality of evil it is then.

>>15377960

>>15351834
>noaa.gov
soience shill organization run by and for political activists. if they say something is true then you know its a lie.

>>15377809
Look up Retraction Watch. Academia is a disaster zone.

>>15358687

>>15349240
global warming is a false narrative

>>15351785

>>15369342
lol

>>15349240
>something doesn't add up here
are you serious? mars get less sunlight, the farther away from the sun, the less sun radiation the same area receives, co2 can only trap solar radiation that hits the surface and gets scatered in all directions from co2, if less solar radiation is received you can have 100000 times the co2, if the solar radiation is much less it doesn't matter there is nothing to trap, you got it now you massive dumb faggot? i didn't even finish high school, how can people be this dumb, you are probably a nigger or mixed raced, if you were white this should be intuitive to you

>>15365277
evaporation of water is endothermic not exothermic

>>15392412
That is ignored because it doesn't fit the global warming doomsday scenario

>>15365277
>slightly more h2o evaporation
more clouds = less sunlight reaching the ground

>>15395421
Clouds reflect both sunlight and the infrared, and the net cloud effect is likely warming.

>>15377365
It is perhaps worth referencing some of Curry's most influential papers:

Webster et al (2005) "Changes in Tropical Cyclone Number, Duration, and Intensity in a Warming Environment"
>[...] 30-year trend toward more frequent and intense hurricanes [...] This trend is not inconsistent with recent climate model simulations that a doubling of CO2 may increase the frequency of the most intense cyclones

Liu et al. (2012) "Impact of declining Arctic sea ice on winter snowfall"
>The results of this study add to an increasing body of both observational and modeling evidence that indicates diminishing Arctic sea ice plays a critical role in driving recent cold and snowy winters over large parts of North America, Europe, and east Asia.

>>15351809
Great, who's paying for that? You? Meanwhile we're slaves to big oil and coal and we keep building more and more suburbs compounding the problem.

The main concerns of climate change are:
1. Increased food insecurity.
2. Water insecurity
3. Habitat loss
4. Mass migration
5. War

If these things sound fun, go ahead and keep burning fossil fuels. Nobody is funding your alternative energy sources because big oil demands to be paid all the money until the sun explodes. This is a problem which requires government intervention.

>>15396050
thats why cloudy days are warmer than sunny days

>>15396073
>This is a problem which requires government intervention.
ahahahahahaha

>>15361853
>CO2 is not a particularly strong greenhouse gas
so you're saying that the global warning caused by CO2 narrative is a big lie?
that would explain the lack of "greenhouse efect" on mars

>>15398453
Greenhouse effect's weaker on Mars for a few reasons, but why are you claiming Mars lacks it?

>>15397462
Not all clouds are made equal, and the effects change depending on day/night cycle.

>>15397462
Clouds types are not equal, and the effects change depending on day/night cycle.

>>15398766
there is no measurable greenhouse effect on mars

>>15399346
That is a remarkably wrong statement.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Infrared-spectrum-of-Mars-top-observation-by-TES-on-Mars-Global-Surveyor-probe-bottom_fig2_234515152

>inb4 b-but it's cold on Mars!
For several reasons. However, the fact that Martian CO2 is a greenhouse gas has been verified by measurement.

>>15399372
*crickets*
lol

>>15399372
ESA says there is no measurable greenhouse effect on Mars, CO2 is not a greenhouse gas

>>15400462
The article you seem to refer to says "hardly any", not "no measurable greenhouse effect". The former means a small amount, and as I've said before, CO2's greenhouse effect properties have been observed.
I'm amazed that you managed to misread a simplified popsci article and ignored actual measurements because of that misunderstanding.

>>15349240
Scientifically speaking, why are climate scientists so bad at physics? Atmospheric Physics used to be a respectable discipline before it was moved out of the physics departments of universities.

>>15400537
>hardly any
mars has over 2000% more CO2 than earth, yet it has no detectable greenhouse effect
CO2 is not a greenhouse gas

>>15401873
>it has no detectable greenhouse effect
A remarkably false statement. See https://sys.4channel.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Ffigure%2FInfrared-spectrum-of-Mars-top-observation-by-TES-on-Mars-Global-Surveyor-probe-bottom_fig2_234515152

>>15401914
>level of detectable greenhouse effect smaller than error range

>>15349240
>something doesn't add up here
never does because "Climate Change" is a money making hoax backed by big oil and rich left-wing billionaires and politicians.

>>15401918
He'll never reply to this with anything but cope. Once error is factored in, all of their doomsaying disappears.

>>15401918
>no proof, no source
Try again. Is this from another popsci article you misread?

>>15401918
CO2 is not a greenhouse gas

>>15403374
This.

>>15399372
The calculated thermodynamic baseline temperature of Mars does not account for the 2.7ºK CMBR, that calculation is from the late 1800s, it presumes the universe is 0ºK. Adding 2.7ºK to the calculated baseline temperature from solar radiation input wipes out the Martian greenhouse effect entirely. Doing the same thing on Earth wipes out over 10% of our supposed "greenhouse effect".
Your global warming narrative is transparently fraudulent to anyone who passed sophomore thermodynamics.

>>15405289
>Adding 2.7ºK to the calculated baseline temperature from solar radiation input wipes out the Martian greenhouse effect entirely.
No proof, no calculations, no source. Try again.

>>15405525
The calculations he's referencing are posted in this thread. I see shills aren't big on reading.

>>15405528
I don't see them. Shouldn't be too hard for you to repost them now, unless you're a liar and/or a troll.

>>15405571
Scroll up very slightly. I know you can do it, anon. I believe in you.

>>15405573
Refusing to directly provide a source seems to be a hallmark of a liar. I'll check back in a couple hours, hope you'll have posted proper sources by then.

>>15405599
lol you can't even stop yourself from lying. It's in your very nature to cope and seethe and gnash your teeth without even putting in the effort to tap the scroll wheel on your mouse. Hint: it's 5 posts up from where you lost the argument.

>>15405702
Waited a few hours just to see
>it's 5 posts up from a fictitious place in the thread
Refusing to provide a source seems to be a robust hallmark of a liar.

>>15349240
>what's average temperature on mars
>why mars doesn't suffer from greenhouse effect
nice runglish faggot

>>15402063
So now that the math and physics have completely blown global warming out of the water, what next? Will Greta retire to live a life of luxury? Can she finally have her childhood back?

>>15401868
Because they're political activists posing as scientist

>>15407298
Very true. That's why nobody can debate the math on its merits, and they have to resort to pretending it doesn't exist in order to keep believing in climate doom.

>>15351555
>Water is a gas
ok then

>>15356760
Who are you, nestle

>>15407298

>>15408680
I'm glad people are still sharing this.

something doesn't add up here

>>15407016
This thread will 404 and then they will immediately go back to peppering the board with climate doom rumors as if the information shared here never happened. They aren't honest people, if an honest person is disproved then they can take it into account and modify their beliefs, if the same thing happens to a dishonest person they just ignore and pretend it never happened, so thats what will happen here. the global warming crowd has ulterior motives for their lies and they aren't going to give up on their plans just because physics disagrees with them, they never have in the past and they aren't about to start now.

>>15351834
why did ppl 300000 years ago burn so many fossil fuels

>>15409957
Yeah, they're just communists trying to use any excuse they can to take away your rights and take away more of your income via state theft taxation.

Green is the new red. They've been crying "the world will end in 5 years if you don't give up your rights and raise taxes" for the last few decades and we're all still here.

>>15351555
>CO2 is actually one of the weaker greenhouse gasses
CO2 is not a "greenhouse gas"
Plants need CO2 to absorb sunlight and convert it into matter, that process stores energy in chemical bonds rather than as heat. CO2 is an organic coolant.

>>15351892
some of you denialists are okay. don't look up what milankovitch cycles are

>>15411461

>>15349240
>something doesn't add up here
global warming is fake

>>15411446
because they were anti-science

>>15351785
See >>15388850
We've been saying that the Sun and other cyclical effects have an effect on climate for years and everytime you cuckheads called us "climate deniers". It is evident that you change your tune to try and win arguments and push an agenda. You're done.

>>15413327

>>15349240
>Mars has a significantly higher CO2 density per unit mass of air
>Mars has 1% as much air pressure as Earth
What's so hard to understand? Why don't you ask ChatGPT to solve this 8th grade algebra problem for you too, you retarded fucking faggot?

>>15416811
I can tell that you're experiencing emotional distress because of your use of profanity, science doesn't care about your emotions, science is for rational people

>>15417356
I can tell by your use of armchair psychology that you're a failure

Elon Musk says global warming is fake

Damn this thread is almost one month old. I forgot how slow this fucking board is.

>>15417410
Scientifically speaking, why are global warming deniers such blatant liars?

>>15417410
>Elon Musk says global warming is fake
>pic clearly shows that that is not the case
"There are alarmists exaggerating the issues" is not the same as "it's all a hoax and none of it is real."

>>15417521
global warming is fake

>>15417521
>"There are alarmists exaggerating the issues" is not the same as "it's all a hoax and none of it is real."
They wouldn't need to lie if the problem was real

>>15419116
You're working under the assumption that they're doing what they're doing because they want to solve a problem. Which is a very odd assumption to make when you also assume that they're lying for some nefarious ulterior motive.
They're envious control freaks who want to consolidate their power and feel like they're doing something good. That's why they always complain about problems but never try to fix them. In this specific example with the climate, that's why they simultaneously screech about how climate change is going to make humans go extinct yet also screech about how terrible and dangerous nuclear power is.

>>15419131
That puts it all together pretty succinctly

>>15398766
>Greenhouse effect's weaker on Mars for a few reasons
chiefly because co2 is not a "greenhouse gas"

>>15417785
thats why the math doesn't add up

>>15398453
>so you're saying that the global warning caused by CO2 narrative is a big lie?
No. I said CO2 is not a particularly strong greenhouse gas

>>15402063

this is just turning scientific rhetoric against itself and dancing around making an actual point

>>15421934
The point is very obvious.

>>15421934

>>15412663
This.

>>15421404
CO2 is not a greenhouse gas

>>15349240
thats ok, environmentalists can't do math. greta is a high school dropout

>>15349240
Global warming is completely fake, so is Covid-19, dark matter, "AI" and most other "science"
Scientists are all just paid liars

>>15427835
they're not even paid all that well, but lying is easier than putting in an honest day's work

>>15349240
>something doesn't add up here
Thats because climate "scientists" can't do math.

>>15429705
They also can't do physics or chemistry.

>>15430106
Botany is also definitely not their strong suit

>>15427835
they say what they're told to say

>>15419131
>that's why they simultaneously screech about how climate change is going to make humans go extinct yet also screech about how terrible and dangerous nuclear power is.
If you want a real paradox, its how they'll complain about "global warming" is going to kill billions and then complain about overpopulation in the same breath. two faced asf

>>15432334
same thing goes for covid. why so much angst over covid if overpopulation is a massive problm?

>>15388850
If the sun is responsible then explain stratospheric cooling

>>15407928
Bruh

You faggots can dance around trying to find individual statistics to poke holes in all you want, but human activity is fucking the earth up. It's unfortunate that the issue was hijacked by retarded politicians who think taxes and eating bugs will fix this, yes, I hate them too, but you're retarded if you think that means we can dig up trillions of metric tons of inert carbon, burn it into the atmosphere over a geological instant, and carry on like it's nothing.
That's not even taking into account all the other horrendous chemicals we're releasing into groundwater and soil, all the havoc we cause when we demolish shit for living space or farmland, and the complete decimation we've done to pretty much all marine life.
>But look, this metric in this paper from fifteen years ago was exaggerated, invalidating this article written by some retarded journalist!
We're killing ourselves, and at this point we deserve it. There is no way out.

>>15356751
Why should it not, brainlet retard?

>>15433366
>global warming is all a big lie by politicians
>but also global warming is real
the low iq soientists lie because they know its the politicians who butters their bread

>>15432656

>>15432656
because reasons

>>15433366
this.

>>15432656
Overpopulation isn't a problem and covid isn't real, but the mass murder of your people is real.

>>15433366

>>15436193
thats the real problem they're trying to get everyone to ignore by distracting them with fake problems like covid, global warming & overpopulation

>>15437350
Fake environmental problems like global warming also distract from real ones like azatrine

>>15411003
this is unfortunately the case

>>15364461
>there is a lot of other green house gases with a much higher green house potential, like water.
We have to remove all water from earth to stop global warming. It’s the only way.

>>15407928
wtf

we have pre-school summerfags now?

>>15439146
thats the class of brainlet who believe in the global warming hoax

>>15411461
>Green is the new red
they have always been called watermelons (green on the outside red on the inside)

>>15377809
They're not told what to write, they do it from their own initiative. The point is that these are the people that get the jobs and funding, as opposed to those with different opinions.

>>15438257
environmental chemicals that cause reproductive problems are part of the white genocide agenda

>>15441070
Same goes for the vaxxxx

>>15349240
Mars has no magnetic field, 2/5 of Earth's gravity, and 1% of Earth's atmospheric pressure. It used to have an atmosphere billions of years ago, but it disappeared because of those 3 things.

>>15351785
>Mars does obviously experience a greenhouse effect,
Show data, instead unrelated graph (hope it's only retarded dumbness and no by intention)

>>15351881
>Your graph is misleading.
Sure, not related to his idiotic out of the ass claim nobody did before. Why are sciencefrauds so dumb?

>>15349240
>Uses free tier
>quality is shit
Hmm, I wonder how you could fix this?