/sci/ - Science & Math

21 grams.

>>15364741
This many.

https://youtu.be/mPcEjZ3__E0

>>15364741
Zero, that's how every cell/molecule/atom/subatomic particle/elementary particle knows what to be and what to do, you don't need consciousness to have an ingrained set of instructions and rules to act by, existence itself is something beyond fundamental and simple human understanding

>>15364741

kek materialists btfo for the 1000th time

>>15364741
Probably very little for you since those words are meaningless in the manner you use them.

>>15364741
about three fiddy

>>15364741
Depends what you mean by "soul" and "concioussnes".

>>15364854
>simple human understanding
>simple human
So is how a cars engine works beyond "explosion of gas makes car go forward".
>advanced human
How does a magnet work or what is gravity?
>homonovus
Solved, but the equations havnt been invented yet so writting down would be meaningless to humans, so they remain as alien symbols in my head.

Fundementally Physics and Consciousness align but that level is so removed from the human experience it will not be accepted at heart until humanity as a whole is understanding a Unified Theory of Evetything (Which Includes Humans you fucking animals!)
>What does that look like?
/x/..........yeah, you fucked up, /sci/....

>>15364741
6 million.

>>15364923
>So is how a cars engine works beyond "explosion of gas makes car go forward".
Yes?
Define what is a gas and what is a car to the smallest possible level, you can't, you also can't explain why the things making up gases and cars are the things they are and not something else, why are there laws that make them behave the way they do. We can explain simpler things that we can rely on with our senses, but to answer the most fundamental questions about this reality is literally impossible and will never be achieved.

>>15365256
>what is a gas and what is a car to the smallest possible level
Molecular decoupling providing thrust propulsion. Same as a rocket or nuclear reactor, or even a gun. A Pneumatic piston is each bullet, it simple isnt attached to the bolt to cycle the chamber, the molecular expansion from decoupling does that.

Easy. You should have asked about magnetism. Thats shits hard to explain.

Anywho...checkmate.

>>15364741
>how many of these things does it take to make a consciousness?
probably around 10 billion.

NPCs have 100 billion of those and still no consciousness.

>>15365618
brutal, I am an NPC

>>15364741
84,000,000

>>15365274
>Molecular decoupling providing thrust propulsion
What's a molecule?
What's an atom?
What's a proton?

>>15365730
Asking for an infinite answer is the same as asking for no answer because it will quickly exceed your ability to understand said answers.

I could, detail the answers...but no, you should have asked the hard question first. You didnt because my answers are just giving you questions you didnt even think to ask.

>>15365730
Actually...start here.

I used to browse this all the time, its my homepage still.

>>15364741
I don't think it's about how many (though perhaps there is a threshold), but more about what type they are, and how they connect to the rest of the brain (perhaps that's obvious though).

I.e. The spindle cell (aka. the Von Economo neuron) is thought to be the basis for consciousness and are found in many other animals, like the Sperm Whale, Raccoons and Elephants. Most notably the Sperm Whale, since interacting with these animals in their environment is quite he experience. They'll look at you, and try to teach you things.

Source: Various papers on Nature and "Sperm Whales Clicking You Inside Out — James Nestor at The Interval" on youtube.

>>15365771
btw the neuron in your pic is a motor neuron that is for moving fingers and whatnot. It has nothing to do with what you're asking about.

>>15365780
>neuron that is for moving fingers
>Judgement cells
I dont think youre a real scientist at all, sir.
>what you're asking about
I dont see a question at all.

No, sir, I do say I doubt.

>>15365797
Motor neurons are what you use to masturbate.

Spindle cells are what you use to choose what to masturbate too.

>>15365833
>Spindle cells are what you use to choose
POINTS.
>Motor neurons are what you use to masturbate
YOUR SHAME.

>thinking this is how the brain truly operates
https://youtu.be/ZmRaIQOlxTY
>thinking consciousness is fully in the brain
https://youtu.be/J1RSPy9MdBc

You're not a Developmental Cognitive Psychologist...I can tell.

This shit I could show you would shatter your even your imagination.

>>15365675
Why is she dressed like that in a courthouse?

>>15365761
>Asking for an infinite answer is the same as asking for no answer because it will quickly exceed your ability to understand said answers.
But it is not impossible to understand them, you simply need enough progress which we'll never achieve

>>15365863
>not impossible to understand them
Axioms of reality reduce the complexity to universal simplicity. Single unified equations erase whole chalkboards of equations.

Very Possible...hence why some men dare to try and do so, often going insane in the process.

>which we'll never achieve
no u

Same same same same...but different!

>>15365851
>You're not a Developmental Cognitive Psychologist...I can tell.

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

>>15365896
>Sir, this is a Wendy's.
Are you Sarah Connor?

>>15364854
brainlets will debate an abstract criticality in computation which means mostly nothing as it only denotes the ability to consider oneself different than another, which doesn't necessarily mean intelligence or some special divine hoodoo powering it, although it obviously gets it's energy somewhere

>>15364741
Bout tree fiddy

>>15364741
Enough to observe and navigate the world and then recursively meta-reflect on those observations.

So more than the average NPC with no inner monologue.

>>15364741
It is not about the amount, it is about the form.
You might as well ask how many pavers it takes to make a path.

>>15365851
>This shit I could show you would shatter your even your imagination.

Ahh yes, i wondered why do i have feeling as if you are very similar to me.
Before i conclude some things, might you tell me the shit you have to show?

>>15366877
>the shit you have to show
Shit beyond your comprehension of existence itself.
>"Just tell me the things beyond my comprehension of reality while I ignore every post and respond back as if Im too smart to engage the science."
Explain what this post (>>15365851) says/links to in realtion to the thread. Listen to some lectures, read some books, THEN engage me in science.

The fact you just simply ignore my words to post back "we're similar" means youre too arrogant for the dumbed down version I post here.

INSULTING, LURK MORE, ATTEND MORE, READ MORE.

>>15366889
Okay... so will you finally say the "shit" i cannot comprehand, instead of dodging the question?
Even with your videos i cannot read your mind.

>>15366981
>The fact you just simply ignore my words to post back "we're similar" means youre too arrogant for the dumbed down version I post here.
No it does not. But this shows how you project your intentions on other people.
Now that is arogant.. to judge wrongfully someone for being interested in what you are saying. Not to mention this "i am smarter then anyone here" act. No wonder you feel called out.

>>15366981
>>15366997
>Monkey to Man: "Explain Lie Groups, please. I dont understand Numbers, only A, Some and Many, but please...write a book so I can throw it away as "pseudo-science schizo nonsense" after looking at the cover, because I cant even read."

No. Do your job (schooling or self education). I DO NOT WORK FOR YOU.

Your Professors are the ones I lecture, NOT HIS STUDENTS.

>how many of these things does it take to make a soul, or a consciousness?
ANSWERED HERE; >>15364754

I can liteeally talk to electromagnetic fields/charges emmited by all life on this planet, a, at my estimation, is an atleast 8th Dimensional perspective of billions of entities. As alien as anything on this planet will ever communicate with.

Clouds can talk to me...are you listening to the Sky?

>>15367022
Look i understand people tend to attack you for your views i understand, this is why i told you that i finde similaritys with you.
But you dont need to defend against people who try to understand you.
Sometimes to be undersrood you need to be dumbed down. That is life.
You aproach me as if i know contents of your mind, as if i know everything you do. I do not.. that would be apaurd.
But its okay. I wont presure it no more. I wish you comfy life friend.

>>15367094
Ok. Sorry. I truly, IN HEART OF HEARTS, see all humans as some level of demonic possession.

Because its true. If it wasnt, for you as example, you would be the living Christ, so anyone that says otherwise, is declaring ego-based self deception.

>Thats what original sin is...the evil inherent in humans.

>You aproach me as if i know contents of your mind
No, I send links to lectures all the time. Did you watch the 2+ hours of lectures I posted? If not...WHY NOT? As you questions should be different if you did.
>This is why I said I dont work for you.
You read the book, then I explain how *that* book relates to all other books. You didnt read the book but want "The Ultimate Connections Of Reality." without doing the work. THE WORK.

>I wish you comfy life friend.
What a demonic curse. Comfort creates mediocrity. I'M METEORIC!


Im busy right now anyway, I have to move out, pack for an around the world trip lasting months, and Im not in the mood to rehash shit repeated here over and over.

>>15367111
Nice. Schizophrenia and delusions of grandeur. And the tasteful demonic possession accusations. Very nice.

>>15367117
I am you Teacher, NOT YOUR PEER.

DO THE FUCKING HOMEWORK OR SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I'm too busy gathering my shit together for my Eastern Europe and Central Asia tour.

GO TO CLASS OR GET A JOB.

LECTURES.

ATTEND OR SHUT THE FUCK UP, PSEUDS.

>>15367124
ESL shitskin claims secrets of the universe. A tale as old as time. I sage.

>>15364754
I have a severe hatred of both consumers and producers of this garbage.

>>15367144
>this garbage
Define what it is, lets see what you truly are.

>>15367145
Riggity REKT. Go to class you pseud.
"lol my superior feelingz is le win"

Child like self delusion.

>>15367152
English as a second language shit skin

>>15367216
Yes, Hyperdimensional Geometry and Numeral are my first langauges.

Thats why I took this picture in Afghanistan, Geomtry in a special place I call my second home.

>>15367111
>Ego-based self deception
That is what i claim also, but ome day i figured out: "But that means i am ego decepted too". You might see what we others dont, but you are still a human, ego deluded human. In the eyes of the universe you are worth just as most dumb among us.

No i did not, because i want to hear your thoughts.
I asked you for your thoughts not someone elses.

>>15367268
>But that means i am ego decepted too
False, Truth doesnt bend to your ignorance, dumbass.....take a fucking seat or Im going to get bitter on your dumbass.

>You might see what we others dont
Theyre souls and evolutionary paths in life, on a Genetic as well as Phsysics and Mathematics level.
>but you are still a human
Oh, wow...a Fundemental Creationist, in the 21st century? Rare find.
>ego deluded human
Assuming superiority then applying your ego onto what I said as if we are equal; YOUR EGO. This is self delusion.

t.Development Psychologist and Evolutionary Cognition Researcher, PhD

THAT ISNT YOU, YOU AINT THAT GUY.

>In the eyes of the universe you are worth just as most dumb among us.
Wrong, YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR LIFE, EARTH, HUMAMS.

Ego, only DELUSIONAL EGO would say that.

I, on the other hand, relay what has been conferred to me, as a mediator for Humans to Earth-Life.

MY JOB, NOT YOURS, HUMAN.

>No i did not, because i want to hear your thoughts.
>I asked you for your thoughts not someone elses.

Delusional unrelated nonsense not pertaining to me, my credentials, Cognition or Existence itself (THE THREAD.)

GO TO BED, KID.

>>15367285
A truth you say? Do tell me my teacher, what is the truth?
What is this ignorance you speak off?

A soul? What is this soul you speak of?

Fundamental creationist? Where did i say i am creationist? If i am anything i am that which was but is not anymore and that which will be and is not yet.

Superiority? No, i simply claim there is no such thing as superiority.

Who said i was?

>Pseudo-Humility
"We're are worthless pieces of shit so if you think you are not then "Fuck you!" because ain't no one better than ME and I speak for Everyone!"
[points thumb at chest]

>>15367285
>In the eyes of the universe you are worth just as most dumb among us.
Wrong, YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR LIFE, EARTH, HUMAMS.
Ego, only DELUSIONAL EGO would say that.
I, on the other hand, relay what has been conferred to me, as a mediator for Humans to Earth-Life.
MY JOB, NOT YOURS, HUMAN.

I mean... you just say for yourself that you have dellusional ego

>>15367301
>Where did i say i am creationist?
"you are still a human"

The denial of evolution itself. Deluded. Ego based will upon the world itself.

YOUR EGO DOES NOT DEFINE REALITY.

>>15367307
Creationism is belife that deity created life.
What are you tallking about? Oh wait let me use your favorit phrase on tjis it might get clear for you:
What you are doing is exactly what you judge me for. You interpretate reallity to fit in with your belifes. Iow. Your ego defines reality:)
Are you aware of famous saying: one finger towards, three fingers back?

>>15367152
Define what, consciousness? As our label or the worlds'?

>>15367311
>Creationism
Denial of Evolution denotes Sponateous Creation from nothing into something.
>Creator
Youre losing this battle with every post...assuming definitions and latching onto whatever you can to win.

What you didnt do was attend the lecture to have competency in the thread topic....LEARN. LEARNLEARNLEARN.

Im going to listen to my novel while I eat dinner, tommorow I pack up, the day after I move out and maybe fly..idk when, Im....jetset afterall.

>>15364741
Consciousness is the prima materia (Elemental Elementalism 1.1.), therefore it is not created by neurons

>>15364741
Here's a video I found on how to scientifically tell if other beings are conscious or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gvwhQMKvro

>>15367322
I did not deny evolution..
You asummed it for me.

Loosing the battle? But i have never even entered a fight. You are fighting your own reflection. You are angry on your own reflection.

>>15364901

I'm trans if that matters

>>15365618
>>15366195

>>15367330
It probably helps explain your tendency for other perceptual disorders.

I believe it's about tree fiddy.

>>15367328
>I did not deny evolution..
FALSE. YOU DID.

"YOU ARE STILL HUMAN."

YOU DENY EVOLUTION AND REALITY.

DELUDED.

>>15367321
>Define for me based on what I already believe it is as when you say anything that doesnt align with my ignirance I will throw out as "Nope, my dictionary says otherwise."
[smug_soi.jpg]

Under the strictest of definitions literally ALL MEDICAL SCIENCE AND RELIGION IS WRONG ABOUT WHAT A SOUL IS.

100%. Comparing my research to your ignorance and psuedo-credentials (presenting yourself as an expert in place of the expedt because you copy/pasted wikipedia)bis meaningless

Anyone truly interested in learnng would be in a lecture...not shitposting retardation.

>>15367344
>Anyone truly interested in learnng would be in a lecture
"How many tho...."

Thousands upon THOUSANDS of hours for years and years AND YEARS.


PhD doesnt mean "I read an article so I shitpost it like I wrote it."

>>15367365
That is your opinion. But just as everyone has asshole so does everyone have an opinion.

>>15367391
>opinion
Defintions of reality are not opinions.

YOU ARE LITERALLY 2+2=5.

I define you, you cannot define me, you opine like your asshole because its baseless emotions, not facts or reality.

>>15367365
I cited a worthless schizophrenic idiots wasting money on kindle books that he is too stupid to read anyways, what a fucking deluded freak

>>15367396
>wasting money
You remind me of my bitch of a brotger who sees money as a purpose to life itself.

Youre broken, which society does since Grade 1, so you are what the Government wants...a broken pseudo-man.


You will never be smart, educated, experienced, a man...you simply fail and lash out at those that dont.

Pathetic.

I don't believe in soul multiplicity, everything exchanges energy with everything else

>>15367344
Our understanding of consciousness is the ability to self inspect.

>>15364741
One cell without even that much complexity, is apparently enough to demonstrate rudimentary awareness of the environment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physarum_polycephalum

>>15367425
And a schizophrenic and can percieve itself percieving itself independently from the perciever. At one point my left and right hemispheres "looked" at each other and analyzed how the other process a single concept.

TELL THE HUMANS. NOT ME, MORTAL.

>>15364741
>>15367324
This. Also, NDEs comfirm it. So unironically study NDEs and realize that there actually is an afterlife and that our soul is immortal.

Here is a very persuasive argument for why NDEs are real:

https://youtu.be/U00ibBGZp7o

It emphasizes that NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist

>"Among those with the deepest experiences 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."

Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. When you dream and wake up, you instantly realize that life is more real than your dreams. When you have an NDE, the same thing is happening, but on a higher level, as you immediately realize that life is the deep dream and the NDE world is the undeniably real world by comparison.

Or as one person quoted in pic related summarized their NDE:

>"As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved."

Needless to say, even ultraskeptical neuroscientists are convinced by really deep NDEs.

>>15364741
souls are supermassive

>>15368794
book seller and dangerously misleading, reincarnation is a privilege afforded you by your tribe if you have one. christians do not have a system for this in place at all, that's actually why I left, death would have meant complete destruction and complete loss of all progress.

>>15367344
What is a soul?

>>15364741
Enough to carry a telos or a will

A will to reproduction of material forms animates matter into 'life', the similar self propagation of higher level information is the sign of a soul.


Some people have no teleological means and therefor no soul. But even many lower animals have a will to a higher idea.

>>15369008
>soul
>not SOVL

THIS IS WHY I EXIST ALONE!

>>15364741
Not even one.

>>15367335
mogus

>>15364909
unless you're a literal NPC p-zombie you know perfectly well what consciousness is

>>15370868
his point, you soulless flesh automaton created strictly to populate this simulation, is that consciousness is about as concrete and rigorous a thing as "free will"

>>15370940
that's literally the exact statement I'm pointing out is blatantly false
the irony of an unconscious NPC like you trying to accuse me of same is palpable
again: unless you're a literal NPC p-zombie you know perfectly well what consciousness is

>>15365909
it gets the energy from me penis, virgin.

zero
the plants and even the rocks are conscious

consciousness is entirely based in material reality, specifically the configuration of your neural network and its chemical and electrical processes for encoding and accessing information. that said, the instructions for creating consciousness are encoded in the constituent parts all the way down, making this guy >>15364854 half right. what he's referring to however is cosmic consciousness, which is completely different from human consciousness and effectively the aggregate of all expressions of consciousness (none of which besides our own we will ever truly understand).

>>15364741
a recurrent neural network is Turing complete

>>15370940
>>15371019
Can someone reset these two NPCs?
Their programming seems to be out of bounds again.

>>15370940
>>15371019
i recognize that all my actions are in some way influenced by my experiences in the past, and that who I am is shaped by the environment around me.
free will is a myth, but it is impossible to predict anything at the same time.

>>15367144
there was literally nothing he said that was hard to understand . He's basically saying Intelligence is made of simpler parts and how those parts interact in controlled feedback systems.

>>15364741
My religion states that the soul is in another dimension and that it sends out a signal to the body where the brain receives it. Neurogenetive diseases are like going in a place with bad reception and you end up with static and unclear messages, for this reason you can't actually die, your radiohead in the other dimension just locates a new body to talk to

>>15365771
the atrocities humans have committed against nature are unforgivable

>>15364741
Technically an infinite amount, but you'll find that out later.

Blue Eisenhower November

>>15364741
42

>>15364741
soul and consciousness don't exist.

>>15364741
>How do I answer the hard problem of consciousness on 4chan

>>15366195
>So more than the average NPC with constant inner monologue.
Fixed.
Inner monologue being the essence of oneself the very most midwit permutation of the human spirit. To anyone higher than midwit mountain, inner monologue is just a tool like any other. It does not define them to an almost comical level.

>>15367329
why wouldn't this work?

>>15367329
>>15384297
I don’t get it

>>15384319
i guess there are multiple layers to it
>How would the face know the minimum configuration for happiness?
>Would I want this to happen when I was the only person that wasn't "reconfigured"?
>Is it ethically to kill everybody on planet earth to maximize happiness?
>What could a "minimum entity that experiences happiness" possibly look like?

>>15364741
I think everything has a consciousness but you need enough complexity + some structured quantum states to be expressed.

>>15384340
>to be expressed
And at what scale, what complexity, does that happen and to which it does not?

>>15384355
I think it's on a spectrum and it's not a switch. A dog has expressed consciousness but it's 1/10 of human's. A skink has expressed consciousness but it's 1/10 of dog's.

>>15384364
>I think it's on a spectrum and it's not a switch.
Vertically? I see it laterally as well; drooling_wojak.jpg
>A dog has expressed consciousness but it's 1/10 of human's
"Exressed", that word again..."fit my measure or youre not conscious". Literally what every IQ thread here boils down to. That Atom in my previous post expressed a shape, the same shape a flower and clouds on Jupiter did.

Does this person "express" the shape or is it different because it uses English to say "I'm conscious."?

"Dude cant even order a pizza over the phone! What an idiot!"