/sci/ - Science & Math

Project Pandora.

Primary data destroyed, never made available for indepedent review (other than to the RAND Corporation).<div class="xa23b"><span class="xa23t"></span><span class="xa23i"></span></div>

MKULTRA Subproject 119, focused on remote influence and means of pickup.

W.R. Adey (creator of the qEEG at UCLA's Brain Research Institute) pictured with the LIDA machine.

>>15318978

>>15318978
.

I remember once where I read on a pdf file about a study carried in soviet union where scientists managed to put an ENTIRE TOWN TO SLEEP using a big radio transmitter.

>>15320938
I've heard similar stories, but always secondhand account like your's. I wouldn't doubt it, but would highly appreciate if you could remember the source.

A similar thing I ran into was the tendency for people doing research in this are to not properly document and cite anything. For example "Project Sleeping Beauty". I could never get any leads on this, but found frequent mentions all leading back to the same few sources.

Just imagine the possibilities...

>>15318966
Schizo nonsense, and the whole CIA is a bunch of schizos. I wonder why anyone listens to them anymore.

>>15320997
What if you're also a schizo?
[thinking emoji]

>>15318966
>>15320938
I have no idea what 'animal studies' the first one referred to, cause non-thermal LL microwaves cant do jack shit. The closest I could find were studies linking long-term LL microwave exposure in rats to a less stimulated hippocampus. The fact that radiowaves could put humans to sleep is fucking ridiculous, the energies are ~10 orders of magnitude too small to cause any changes in neurochemistry.

>>15320997
Also that D IA. As in Defense Intelligence Agency.

>>15321019
>The closest I could find
Describe your search method and how long you spent. This is the science board, include your methodology.

>>15318966
>>>/x/

>>15321023
This is the science board. What you're doing is religion.

>>15321013
All right, let me think about it...

No.

>>15321028
>n=1

>>15318966
>Rather than being air propelled ice crystals or even chemical at all, it just used reflected microwave signals
Everyone knows that retard, ice crystals? how retarded are you?

>>15321020
I literally just googled the stuff OPs image, and found this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0895398812600427.. The idea that non-thermal microwaves can cause heart attacks is fucking ridiculous.

>>15321032
Yeah, okay. You didn't do a very thorough search.

>>15321029
A schizo reply, how revealing.

15321035
bot

>>15321032
That's not me trying to be a prick to you by the way. It's just to be expected. This kind of thing takes quite a while and can't be adequately understood by investing 10 minutes into a few searches. The barrier of entry isn't that high, but it's also not trivial. Responding to your arguments (athermal isn't even enough to disturb a hydrogen bond, what is the site of transduction and amplification, where are these claims and experimental findings coming from, etc) is also not trivial.

>>15321034
I dont need to. You're talking about energies several orders of magnitude lower than what's needed to initiate any sort of chemical reaction.

>>15321058
>I dont need to.
That's an a priori stance, arguing from theory. You can't treat complex systems with the same predictive simplicity as dropping a pencil and saying it'll fall to the ground. You're acting like I'm saying the pencil will fall up, when the matter really isn't that extreme or clear cut. It's just unfamiliar.

>>15321050
Well, please enlighten me on how these microwaves could disturb electrochemical processes in the brain.

>>15321063
Explain to me how light and sound could disturb electrochemical processes in the brain. Explain the origin of the EEG in detail, not a vague "coordinated action between regions". Why does photic stimulation or the frequency following effect alter brain activity?

That's the issue with naming one particualr site of transduction, it's frequency and tissue dependent, and the mechanisms span from triggering corticotropin releasing factoring (causing opiois and cholinergioc effects downstream), to disruption of the activity of particular enzymes, to ion channel activation (in one model a pulsed signal with a rapid rise time had a "ratcheting" effect on calcium channels, where the pulses come faster than its relaxation time) to ion cyclotron resonance and redistribution of extracellular ion domains. In millimeter waves you have brillouin precursors and a change int he properties of water, leading to conformational changes or instability of proteins (eg hemoglobin), and lastly you have simple straightforward stimulation of the skin leading to releasing of endogenous opioids, degranulation, etc. frequency, signal scheme and modulation, peak power (rather than average power density), and poalrization are all biologically relevant.

The way I'm reading it you seem to be saying "convince me this is a thing". I don't have the magic bullet to do that. Whether you want to look into it yourself is up to you.

>>15321095
I dunno man, that all sounds plausible, but saying "conformational changes", without data doesn't really mean much, the effects could be negligible for all I know.

>>15321143
Pic, eg.

I put a lot of other stuff here.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/dj875cd10yb72/EMF
I made some indexes back in the day and there are several bibliographies (EMF-portal database dump, NMRI, EPA) but it's still worth searching as they're by no means complete.

>>15321155
But yes, I wish these things were properly funded and studied these days. Instead it's relatively spread out, there's no coordinated program or central oversight. Navy, Department of Energy, and Telecom were basically done funding public research by the mid 90's. when a lot of inconvenient findings and questions started to amass. Another factor was the air force and NATO, that wanted to operate freely and put radar in host nations without issue. This required a clear safety standard, where a thermal effects only doctrine was most convenient.

>>15321155
Well you still haven't given me any numbers, nor an explanation of how this could noticeably alter homeostasis. All the image said was the radiation pressure from RMR could create disturbances in water, thereby causing changes in heme-globin bonds. It didnt mention RMR intensity, numerical results of these changes, or how they affect the body. I also cant be bothered to sift thru ur documents rn, look my 2 cents are: they've been using radar for ages, and everybody is doing fine, the effects are probably for the most part negligible, if it really was an issue, we would probably know it by now.

>>15321231
>and everybody is doing fine
There's really no metric that supports that. Just go to your local supermarket parking lot.

>>15321234
You're actually retarded. Just bcus a system has a lot of microscopic variables doesn't mean it would scale up to any macroscopic effects. There are tons of other things that have a greater effect on blood (electrolytes, metals, cholesterol etc) than radiation pressure from RMR - "but it's all just fucking radiowaves" - you have to be kidding me.

>>15321264
>Just bcus a system has a lot of microscopic variables doesn't mean it would scale up to any macroscopic effects.
Yes. That's why you do experiments with animal models, or humans, and try to design epidemiological studies to determine things like that, which you then weigh all together with the mechanistic data.... which has been done... and is there to read, for those who don't assume.

>There are tons of other things that have a greater effect
Yeah this is a bullshit argument. I'm well aware of how many factors there are impacting health. You don't get to just exclude factors you don't personally want to deal with. That's not legit.

>>15321275
By 'effect' I mean physical effect on the molecular dynamics. What leads to think that some tiny push from radiowaves has the same significance as the electrochemical interactions between sodium and water molecules?

>>15321291
I'm not sure why you'd even ask that. Biological systems are all about nonlinear phenomena, and transduction + massive amplification. Look what your whole body just did just because some light went into your eye from a screen. You can kill someone from fright, without even touching them.

>Arguing with Garrett

>>15321297
Yeah, your eyes are sensitive to visible light, and its interaction causes signals to be sent thru the optic nerve. There is no interaction intelligible interaction like that occurring with RMR - it'll be no more 'intelligent' or 'significant' than some extra sodium. The body isn't even sensitive enough to tell the difference (or to even detect) RMR pressure on blood, than say electrolytes - you're just disturbing some water molecules, there's nothing special about RMR, atleast not in the studies you've mentioned.

>>15321348
>there's nothing special about RMR, atleast not in the studies you've mentioned.
There's no reason to take this as a default position without consulting the literature on the topic.

>>15321356
Hmmm, I cant really find much on this, but it just seems silly. Again, you're talking about tiny, disorganized/'spread-out' disturbances in vacua leading to a highly organized despiralization. Correlation does not imply causation, especially when the form of causation is implausible.

>>15321036
yeah, sure
>>15321061
>>15321050
>>15321095
CIA is schizos who work on making the whole world schizo, because they think that hearing voices makes them human.

>>15321416
It's an excerpt from the book "Nonlinear Electrodynamics in Biological Systems".

>>15322176
based if true

>>15322250
Based? They support schizos, and do everything they can to destroy anyone normal. You have no mibd if you are sane, the world is not a safe place until the last sane person is gone. What do you think the result could be? The clown world.

>>15322297
schizo is a synonym of based. based is schizo, schizo is based. cringe is based. it's based and schizo to cringe.

>>15322297
cringe everyday

>>15322323
No it isn't. Schizos are responsible for most of the things that you hate. A schizo can't be based, a schizo is a purified awfulness. (though he may call you a schizo for not being a schizo like himself)

>>15322341
And to understand it's not just the voices. Every noise or anything that hints at something gets amplified into total certainty. No ambiguity is understood by the schizo. A whole conspiravy theory emerges from you moving your hand slightly differently when you eat. A schizo is totally convinced of his psycho delusions, and will rationalize or attack anything that suggests otherwise. He will seek to destroy the dangerous person that you are to protect societ. He caught you red handed after all. He saw how you moved that finger.

>>15322348
There's a schizophrenia spectrum. The "I will never be safe until everything and everyone is either remade in my image or dead" mindset is a manifestation of full spectrum dominance. It's more correlate with dark triad traits. However you could argue in some cases that dark triad traits are an early defense against the groundwork for schizophrenia, ie double binds and so on.

Either way, a tendency towards reflexive absolute certainty isn't a feature of schizophrenia. Hence why schizophrenics suspect people have been replaced, but don't always react to it. The internal organization that handles error correction and uncertainty is still at play, even with diminished "inner resistance".

I think you're merging too many things together too completely.

>>15322353
Actuallly I'd sy the turn all into self is schizotypal with NPD traits, to put it in those terms. Either way though, pure NPD and psychopaths tend to form a foodchain. NPDs are their playthings and pawns, easy to detect and wrangle, figure what threads to pluck and buttons to push, then put them where you want them. So it has always been. Psychopath architects a grand apparatus and stocks its middle layers with narcissists.

>>15322356
I don't think that a psychopathy exists as a thing separate from schizophrenia. A schizo may both be perceived as and perceive others as psychopaths.
Schizos seem to have a great difgiculty acquiring language, and their understanding of it may be incomplete or completely wrong, especially of abstract words and grammar.
For example a schizo may be told, "I won't do this, I'm an honest man." to which he reacts by warning everyone that the person is a murderer, which in turn may him see as a psychopath liar and slanderer. But the schizo didn't lie from his own perspective, because that's how he learned to understand the word "honest" - it means the person has the right to kill other people.
Or he may understand "love" as either an avoidance word that people use to avoid talking aboit sex, or as a desperate strategy to obtain sex.
Some are not necessarily tief to language. A schizo may see a person acting differently towards different people based on their relationships, but not understand this, and interpret it as the person creating different personas for different people.

>>15322356
I don't think that psychopathy exists as a thing separate from schizophrenia. A schizo may both be perceived as and perceive others as psychopaths.
Schizos seem to have a great difficulty acquiring language, and their understanding of it may be incomplete or completely wrong, especially of abstract words and grammar.
For example a schizo may be told, "I won't do this, I'm an honest man." to which he reacts by warning everyone that the person is a murderer, which in turn may make him seen as a psychopath liar and slanderer. But the schizo didn't lie from his own perspective, because that's how he learned to understand the word "honest" - it means the person has the right to kill other people.
Or he may understand "love" as either an avoidance word that people use to avoid talking aboit sex, or as a desperate strategy to obtain sex.
Some are not necessarily tief to language. A schizo may see a person acting differently towards different people based on their relationships, but not understand this, and interpret it as the person creating different personas for different people.

>>15322536
>But the schizo didn't lie from his own perspective, because that's how he learned to understand the word "honest" - it means the person has the right to kill other people.
I think (structural) dissociation and splitting of the mind is distinct from schizophrenia. It seems like you're operating on the idea of schizophrenia == MPD/DID, which isn't really accurate. What seems more likely is the object relations and developmental stages stuff, involved in forming the core self and reality testing. Look into schizotypal and schizoid for example. It seems likely that some manifestations of NPD, schizotypal, and schizoid all share a common feature of the "schizoid core", which is a quasi-solipsistic "strictly internal" mindset. Strong merging between internal and external objects, to where they are conflated.

The deliberate or conditioned formation of a shell personality, alters, double think, selective awareness and internal blindness (lack of insight), and so on is distinct from the schizophrenic distortion of object relations. A divided mind and a singular mind will have different internal structure, constellations, macrostates,a nd will maintain a different type of default anchor reality. Involved in reality testing, notions that feeling == being / reality, and other stuff. Which is how people both believe and don't believe their own lies, and can polarize onto either state strongly.

That's my take anyway. I do see what you're getting at.

This is the most deranged lunatic, Paranoid schizo post I’ve seen all week. Delete this now and let’s focus on science!!

>>15322864
>let’s focus on science!!
You can start any time anon.

>>15322868
Conspiracies about the cia no thanks. Let’s focus on using our skills to make something, great. besides worrying what someone else is doing

>>15322908
This is much broader than the CIA. The medical applications of this stuff were suppressed in the 1930's.

>>15322908
>. Let’s focus on using our skills to make something
Well said, one cannot deny the physical reality of induction, nor simply the ignore the presence of moving charged particles within the brain. Whether or not the international political cartel is in possession and tends to the deployment of mind control weapons is ultimately only relevant to the point their leaked materials can be purloined towards to the purposes of creating the anti-weapon- a wizard staff that broadcasts the destructive interference signal to wake people out of the matrix in an area of effect

>>15322954
"Metamaterial" is meaningless. There are tons of different metameterials designed for different functions in different environments. There is no known broadband metamaterial that you could produce yourself, which cancels out or converts ambient EMR into beneficial signals.

>>15323372
I theorise that a tunable metamaterial could be constructed in the spirit of the chameleons skin.

perhaps i cannot create it, but grow it

>>15323407
Radiolaria always come to mind with stuff like this. Bacteria will grow structures as well.

-Magneto proteins
https://www.insidescience.org/news/magneto-protein-could-help-magnets-control-brain-circuitry

Stanley et al 2016 - Bidirectional electromagnetic control of the hypothalamus regulates feeding and metabolism
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4894494/
Wheeler et al 2016 - Genetically targeted magnetic control of the nervous system
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4846560/
Nimpf 2017 - Is magnetogenetics the new optogenetics?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5470037/

Recently certain reports failed to replicate it, however. Which could be genuine, or it could be trying to put the cat back in the bag for whatever reason. The original work was done via the Rockefeller Institute.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/two-studies-fail-to-replicate-magnetogenetics-research-66474

-Prefabricated implants and stimulators
Freeman 2017 et al - A Sub-millimeter, Inductively Powered Neural Stimulator
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5712043/
-Neuralink
-NeuraSigma Monarch (similar to patent on flicker rate manipulation?)
-Delgado etc

However, what if you don't need to surgically implant electrodes? Through RF guided nanotechnology, perhaps implants can be grown in the body.
-Implants grown in the body, assembled in place
https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/magneto-microcrystals-give-magnets-superpower-over-living-cells

>>15322856
You are a schizo.

New.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/6xyj9ukcir1bn2i/%255BRamazzini%255D_%255BICEMS_Monograph%255D_2010_-_NON-THERMAL_EFFECTS_AND_MECHANISMS_OF_INTERACTION_BETWEEN_ELECTROMAGNETIC_FIELDS_AND_LIVING_MATTER.pdf/file
Merged part 1 and 2, added section bookmarks.

>trusting any of the two sides
lmao

>>15321291
>By 'effect' I mean physical effect on the molecular dynamics
Define the dose. I don't want you to imply our sight is fake, the heart-to-heart responses are fake or that animals' magnetic sense are fake.
It doesn't have to be electrochemical, nigga. It seems OP is arguing for waveelectric effects instead.

>>15326336
You're referring to "Satan's Puppet Show", the polarizing and mixing of light and dark. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Despite your MKULTRA Monarch reference as a name, you seem to have decided "can't know".

>>15326363
>>15326386
Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying.

>>15326386
>the polarizing and mixing of light and dark
Referring to left and right, red and blue (red and white being the crowns of upper and lower egypt, blue is war crown that unites them), that is.

>>15320997
>nothing to see here, move along
glowing hands typed this post

>>15326895
The year is 1999.
The CIA naggers are glowing in the dark.
And you must run them over with your car.

/sci/ should be merged with /x/

It would improve the quality of both boards desu

>>15326993
I was just thinking about this earlier. I don't think they should be merged, but any regular visitor should recognize they are two sides of the same coin.

>>15326895
>call glowniggers a bunch of schizos
>get accused of being one

>>15320938
hmm that might be half way possible

Everyone seems fatigued.

/sci/ is dead apparently.