/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15289807
Consciousness is the experience of the material from a human perspective. Does your mom see aliens when I fuck her in the ass every night, or is she just experiencing something out of the material realm? Bc this fat cock is material and you mom is a material guuuurl.

>>15289814
sophistry

The material is a fabrication your mind creates from the electrical impulses it receives through your 5 sense. You can never prove whether you are dreaming or not, whether you are a schizo just imagining it all or not or whether you are a brain in a jar somewhere getting fed electrical signals that replaced the ones you received from your 4 senses to trick your mind or whether you ever had a body at all with those 5 senses to begin with. The only thing you can prove is that you are receiving electrical signals that your brain is creating a construct from and you call this construct "material"

>>15289843
sophistry

The material is a fabrication your mind creates from the electrical impulses it receives through your 5 senses. You can never prove whether you are dreaming or not, whether you are a schizo just imagining it all or not, or whether you are a brain in a jar somewhere getting fed electrical signals that replaced the ones you used to receive from your 5 senses and are now tricking your mind, you can't even prove you ever had a body at all with those 5 senses to begin with. The only thing you can prove is that you are receiving electrical signals that your brain is creating a construct from and you call this construct "material"

>>15289844
>The only thing you can prove is that you are receiving electrical signals that your brain is creating a construct from and you call this construct "material"
Sorry I take this back, you can't even prove you have a brain either, you can only prove you are perceiving information, the source of which is unknown

>>15289814
Nonmaterialists btfo

You can't prove you're not ChatGPT

Consciousness theories are nothing but pseudoscience. If it cannot be measured or defined, it is nothing more than schizobabble. Things such as paradox or the "unknown" only exist necessarily as placeholders, to show what is error or falsehood. This is the equivalent of low IQ baboons existing, to showcase what enlightened high IQ looks like, or the existence of hideous ugly people, to show what true beauty is. Now off you go, back to your meditation retreat...men are talking

>>15289846
>>15289844
Oh and one last thing, you can never prove me wrong.

>>15289855
That's an easy one. I can say something positive about white people. ChatGPT can't do that.

>>15289858
schizo pseud sophistry

>>15289859
Stop posting that criminal.

>>15289807
>Your position is so utterly weak that you can't even explain the awareness or consciousness in which you hypothesize about matter, particles, fields, etc.
Yet you can't explain why all those thing exist and why you learned about them rather than consciously manifesting them as you please without materialism.

>>15289861

*yawn*

Everything is relative, and therefore the unknown will always exist. Relativity theories were figured out aeons ago

>>15289844
>electrical impulses it receives through your 5 sense
Electrical impulses and sensory apparatuses are all material manifestations, so you have only successfully invoked materialism to explain your perspective. If you are getting reliable electrical information from your senses rather than creating an ad hoc unpredictable set of impulse, you are explicitly admitting your reality is more than just an internal dream.

>>15289871
>If you are getting reliable electrical information from your senses rather than creating an ad hoc unpredictable set of impulse, you are explicitly admitting your reality is more than just an internal dream.
You have no way of independently verifying that the sensory experience you perceive is reliable.

>>15289871
>Electrical impulses and sensory apparatuses are all material manifestations,
You dont know if they even exist >>15289846

>>15289846
>the source of which is unknown
So you admit your only claim is that you don't know anything about reality or why it is made of consistent material instead of dreamlike dynamic ideas?

>>15289870
>>15289859

>>15289877
I admit only that I enjoy the construct of big ole tiddies

>>15289874
Instrumentation is precisely about reliable measurement we can reliable produce crayons with consistent color because we know a lot about how light works to make color and we have many ways to reliably measure that something is the same color as something else.

>>15289881
>we can reliable produce crayons with consistent color
And you know this how? Because you convinced yourself of it from the construct in your mind that you cant prove exists anywhere but in your mind? Try and think before posting

>>15289880
OK, so the basis of your worldview is that you are addicted to certain material and using other material to post about it on various telecommunications materials and as a result of those distractions you don't understand anything about reality, not even your own senses.

>>15289881
You missed the point somewhat.

>>15289884
I said tiddies, this aint hard mate

Materialism can't explain consciousness. Idealism can't explain anything at all. It's time to take the dualism pill and admit Descartes was right about everything.

1. The physical world exists mostly independently, is mostly deterministic and mostly computable.
2. The mental world exists mostly independently, is mostly nondeterministic and uncomputable.
3. They interact by means of quantum mechanics.
4. We have evidence that this interaction does manifest itself in some (not all) human brains. We do not know yet where else it can manifest itself.

>>15289887
this doesnt account for juicy fat tiddies, disregarded

>>15289883
No other people convinced me by demonstrating how the instruments work with knowledge that was well outside the scope of my young mind and showed me how those instruments provide reliable measurements, if you were just part of my mind and simply a thought, you would not need a computer to communicate with me, you could just think it and I would know it, but that is not how it works, you are too impotent and cucked to have any of these magical godlike powers you wish you had.

>>15289889
We accept your concession and acknowledgement that nonsense is your only possible retort.

>>15289878

Did you not understand something? By nature of reality itself, you can never provide "absolute" proof of anything, because that by design would destroy relativity. There will always be room for doubt. If I stab myself in the foot, I can expect and know that I'm going to experience pain. I can't absolutely prove that I'll experience that, but we know that it'll be the case through rigorous peer review and empirical data

Now back to your tarot cards, I can feel my I.Q dropping every second I decide to engage with you

>>15289893
>>15289859

>>15289892
>>15289859

>>15289897
>>15289892

>>15289893
>By nature of reality itself, you can never provide "absolute" proof of anything
Prove it or be proven wrong by default.

Very sus. The namefag in this thread is an imposter. The real bodhi is a materialist, determinist, pro Ukraine and pro trans rights.

>>15289899

All language is inherently dualistic or relative. An identifier like language automatically creates a shadow when you assign any definition, or that which something is not. An "absolute" would be the equivalent of saying nothing at all, which gives us no information as to the nature of reality

>>15289894
>>15289897
>>15289898

Aww cute, he thinks hes being clever

>>15289890
>No other people
which you cant prove even exist

>instruments
which you cant prove even exist

> reliable measurements
that you can't prove even exist

you arent real sharp are you?

>>15289902
So if you think language is so weak, then why are you attempting to use language to make proofs about the impossibility of proofs? You honestly just make yourself sound retarded and self contradicting in attempting to make an absolute statement about how there are no absolute statements.

>>15289904
When you move your arm, you move your arm, not my arm, hence we are different people since when I move my arm, my arm moves instead of yours.

>instruments... which you cant prove even exist
Your computer is an instrument, if you don't believe in them, smash your computer to bits and use your own pure ideas to shitpost on every screen in the world instead.

>reliable measurements... that you can't prove even exist
Then why is there a timestamp on your post, make your posts without timestamps from now on if you don't believe in timestamps.

>you arent real sharp are you?
Except you are the one who is so confused by simple semantics that you don't even know if you exist or are someone else's dream anymore.

>>15289906
>So if you think language is so weak

When did I ever say that? Language is intricately tied to reality itself

>You honestly just make yourself sound retarded and self contradicting in attempting to make an absolute statement about how there are no absolute statements

No, you're just retarded, and I'm done arguing with retards.

>>15289908
>When you move your arm
that you dont know even exists

>not my arm
that you dont know even exists

You are dense aren't ya mate. How long you want to this?

>>15289859

>>15289909
>When did I ever say that?
When you said it was inherently relative and unable to produce absolutes.

> Language is intricately tied to reality itself
Except you just got done saying that it is inherently disconnected from reality itself and only tracks shadows of reality.

>you're just retarded
Nope I am not the retard unironically setting out to absolutely prove that absolutes are impossible to prove.

>>15289910
No, you are the dense one who doesn't even know if you or your arms exist and tries to project your confusion and retardation onto others in the most confused retarded way possible.

>>15289916
You are a legit retard. Dont ever address me again

>>15289917
I accept your concession and admission of retardation.

>>15289858
>If it cannot be measured or defined, it is nothing more than schizobabble
justice cant not be measuredf

>>15290007
Can't it though.
If you take the lemma that justice delayed is justice denied you can calculate the difference between the day justice was delivered from the day justice was sought to arrive at a measurement of justice dispensed

>>15290007
>justice cant not be measured
Yes, it can. We do have statistics about racial and gender inequality.

>>15290062
we sure do

>>15290062
How many justices does that measure for the war on drugs and drug laws in general?

>>15289807
idealism can't explain the rigid universe.

>>15289887
terrible idea.

>all these retards arguing day and night, never realizing it's the syntax of the language they are using that is causing paradoxes to arise
Imagine being stupid

>>15290118
>heh, i know how it really be
you don't.

>>15290118
You don't have to imagine it, you just did the exact same thing and pretended like you resolved something you were told or made some grand argument by simply using poor syntax and weak language games.

not science

>>15290122
He does. Read dictionaries and thesauruses, root meanings and root languages (Greek/Latin) and U2 can be 2smrt4ewe.

>>15289860
but that'd be a lie

>>15290132
No, he is saying syntax is fucked and relying of words and letters that have multiple meanings and sounds will always lead to contradictions and unsolvable semantic disputes. No amount of dictionary reading will get you out of that hole and the thesaurus only proves it since you can find some words that are synonymous with literal opposites.

>explains consciousnesses, qualia and "free" will
There are plenty of explanations of how qualia and seemingly free will can arise given physicalism but you still stick your head up your ass and pretend like it's impossible

>>15290143
free will doesn't exist.

>>15290137
WRONG. I'M NOT ASKING.

I'M INFORMING THE PLANET.

Who are (You)? Some dick with a hand holding it?! 2 cents? Thats it?

>>15290148
I know you poorly paraphrase people to make their words seem to fit into your nonsensical semantic framework.

>>15290176
>poorly
Filtered.

We're done here...come back with an education, I'm not here to educate illiterate hissing cats saying "Feed me."

>>15289863
>HE'S GUILTY! GUILTY OF THE CRIME OF TRIGGERING ME!!!
Obama dropped 100,000 bombs on seven countries. Is he guilty, too? Limit your answer to "yes" or "no" so we can see if you're a hypocrite or just a psychopath.

>>15290186
Yes

>>15289807
Why have they gotten so uppity recently? Their paradigm and identity they have built around is crumbling while they can squeal and watch, horrifed

>>15290476
*while they can only squeal

>>15290476
Lol projection
Only idealists are being "uppity" with their endless stream of spam of consciousness threads (and jannies won't do shut cuz they're on their side nowadays)

>>15289859
>Oh and one last thing, you can never prove me wrong.
What's amusing about this is the sole thing that gives you certainty is spun entirely out of very, very human reasoning

>>15290496
What's amazing is you do not possess the wherewithal to understand that is what proves me right

>>15290518
You could also say it masks a lack of wherewithal, it's not like theologians or scientists are known for it outside their niche

>>15289807
no material no brain
no brain no think
electron is also matter needed for think
check m8 what now

>>15290715
No consciousness no matter. It's consciousness that experiences matter to begin with.

>>15289807
Ever heard of neuroscience? Because if you doubt conciusness have nothing to do with material, I would maybe try to cut a piece of your brain out, if it survives unharmed.

>>15290793
>ever heard of electronics? because if you doubt there's little men in your TV set i would maybe try to cut a piece of your TV out, see if the little men survive unharmed

>>15290793
>ever heard of neuroscience
Yes I have but you very clearly don't know anything about it other the name. This is what happens when a psued thinks they are going jump into a conversation where they don't understand the topic and arguments and think they are going to drop a clever one liner and then give themselves a blowjob because of how smart they think they are >>15289844
>inb4 he is too stupid to read the article in pic rel and starts reeeing like a retard

>>15290733
there does not need to be consciousness for matter to be, only for it to be observed. us not being around does not make everything cease to exist. time and matter would still continue onward.
if anything there are still other animals

>>15290817
If there's no one around to observe matter, how do you know matter even exists?

>>15290808
its quite easy to discern of someone is able or not, simply ask what they think of musk

>>15290819
you wont because you wouldnt be observing it.
object permanence still not kicking in?
if there is nothing around that can know then nothing knows. do you see the problem with your logic

>>15290817
>it came to me in a dream .....

>>15290826
There's no "object permanence", you made that up.

If there's no one to observe matter, then matter doesn't fucking exist. Ergo, observer comes first and matter is a byproduct of observing the world in a specific way.

>>15290832
what are you on, denial?

>>15290836
>If there's no one to observe matter, then matter doesn't fucking exist
lmao

>>15290836
my guess would be you think the world is a simulation
>If there's no one to observe matter, then matter doesn't fucking exist
saying the words doesnt make it real
even modern science is enough to crack this post open further than goatse.
example:
>age earth blns of years
>age of humanity not even close
uh oh damn and we where only getting started

>>15290808
>pseud
Yes. I discussed emergent properties of certain materials here, a looong time ago and it was actually meaningful then, I had same big font and posts ware like 3-5 times larger.

>>15290848
You laugh but only because you're too stupid to get it.

If there's no mind, then how the living fuck do you prove that matter exists? You don't, because the mind is the one doing the proving.

>>15290804
Is your personality deterministic? Do you have free-will? Do you think everythink that has free-will has to be self conscious?

>>15289844
actually you can have an idea if you're schizo or not. they'll send you to a mental hospital

>>15290855
you have my interest, what materials are we talking about and what kind of properties?

>>15290857
read>>>15290826
you are being redundant, you say there if there is no mind then how do you prove. if there is no mind there is nothing to experience first of all second proving things will merely be a concept, because there is nothing to do and need the proving, you can however prove/estimate periods of time that have been
tell us a little about your background, im curious to know if you are studying or religious

>>15290873
There is no such thing as object permanence. You made it up. If you go to deep sleep, tell me where your phone is? There is no phone. It reappears when you wake up, you construct it with your attention and your mind.

>>15290851
>he thinks it is humans doing the "observing" that brings reality into existence.
ahhh, funny little retard

>>15290876
(cont) to answer your question, my background is computer science and gamedev. Just like in games, I don't see why reality should be rendered if there's no camera observing the scene.

>>15290857
fools always laugh at their own stupidity, it is the only thing their IQ is high enough to understand

>>15290877
It literally is, but it's too much of a paradigm shift for you right now. Give it a few years, maybe you'll get it eventually.

>>15290857
>if a tree falls and no one's around to hear it, it doesn't make a sound
false. it still generates density perturbations in the surrounding air, therefore it still makes a sound. whether anyone is around to receive that signal is irrelevant.

>>15290880
you got lost in the code there m8, if its rendered then where is the light coming from? this is something you can check with instruments.
>on a side note

>>15290882
Nah son, it comes into existence because of the CREATORS observation. Sit down and stfu and don't try to tell me about paradigms you fucking psued

>>15290887
No it doesn't, because if there's no one to measure those perturbations, they defacto do not exist. The quantum wave collapses upon investigation, so if you go to that tree 5 hours from then, you might find evidence of perturbations, but they do not defacto occur when not being investigated.

>>15290887
inb4 >humanity is the centrepoint of everything

>>15290890
lmao. just lol

>>15290889
>calling someone a pseud
>creator
hmm

>>15290862
LSD, Brain and AI...

Also the space...

The problem is, once some set of functors have some weird order of things set up, they even sometimes billions of them somehow produce things like qualia, and I'm sure I'm here, like I see and hear. I'm sure AI can say that too, and I'm sure it can get done more complicated tough process than myself.

Then there is determinism and free will, well, people's mind obey to certain law, but it's not easy to program it to have exact output, then there's this thing you left food behind kick the thing that's down on doors, and whole day is ruined and have different outcome in your mind, especially if it hurts a lot. World isn't exactly precise all the time, so we always have some uncertainity here...

Also determinism and free will... I analysed random number generators, and I am not sure, they are unconscious, I feel like in pseudo random number generation we see patterns sometimes...

One can disprove christianity as hoax, but disprove god kind of entities like those little man hidden in television and drawing coffe stains with so much precision on table, you never know...

Conclusion is that even sets of information, spreaded to multiple entities can have conciousness of their own, but it's somehow distributed over multiple qualia, conciousness is here way it appears, and qualia is experience of being something like individual.

Also theory of wholeness, like your body is composed of small things, when you as one , preferably, percieve parts of it, maybe some other forms of social information clusters, have same emerged entity, that there is this one individual experiencing himself, as whole entity as whole information cluster, him being god, doesn't mean he's christian one, or can control everything, like you cannot completely control your body.

All this is well oiled machinery, that have more to do with probability than shoringer's cat. But I always imagine being dude who always flips coin on head out of random.

>>15290888
>check with instruments
You wrote this and you still fail to get my point.

>>15290892
I'm sorry that my IQ is 100 points higher than yours, I wish I could dumb my perspective down but the fact of the matter is I can't. You either get it, or you don't, and you obviously don't.

>>15290895
If there are enough people flipping coin sometimes someone will have all heads all the time, altought it's inprobable that the tosses will be meaningfull information.

Stuff saying that infinity means every opportunity possible comes true is certainly bullshit.

>>15290896
>assuming errors can only be caused by external factors
i like you, but does your eyes being open make the world exist or does it count for everybody?

>>15290888
>instrument
>you mean the woman in the red dress, look again ....
I have said it here countless times but is astounding how the midwits here can't under basic ideas and concepts. This is akin to saying, the video game is real because my character int he video game held up a reality measuring device the output was "real." Like stone cold retard shit

>>15290902
It's all the senses that you have. They are the ones that collapse the quantum wave and create the reality that you experience. Outside of that bubble, only superposition exists, the fact that the wave collapse is often skewed to your expectation only confirms this further.

>>15290896
how render weight
even if it is or isnt. it may as well be rendered. it doesnt change the fact you can feed you sensors. it wouldnt change a thing

>>15290910
the wave function doesn't collapse and superposition is fake

>>15289844
>>15289846

This this. All we know is that we exist as awareness of something.

>>15290905
then your question becomes
how can we observe if we cant observe
we cant
/thread

The reason why most of you shouldn't go into idealism is because it will make you shizo. You need to be extremely stable mentally to be able to cope with the fact that reality is mental. This and this only is the reason why psychedelics make some people insane. Unearned wisdom.

>>15290934
you could say film it but you wont believe anything you can interact with, surprise surprise if you have nothing you are sure of you have no way to put something you are sure of next to anything to confirm sure/unsure
try again

>>15290945
nah it's just rubbish lol

>>15290715
>>15289908
>>15289871


Time to get rigorous. Thoughts exist - they are the only thing that is real. Thoughts are mental. Mental is not physical. Thoughts have no physical properties. There is no mechanism for the physical to generate or transmute into mental. The brain generates thoughts. The brain cannot create thoughts if it is physical. Ergo, the brain is not physical. Since the brain is the same as all other matter, no matter is physical. Ergo, all matter is fundamentally mental. What we perceive as physical is our fictional perception of these mentalities. This is a useful construction, and we can do a lot of cool things with it, and we should take it seriously, but it is not literal reality.

I welcome anyone here to disprove this. If you say "we don't know yet but materialism can explain it," then you are engaging in faith - materialism is your religion. That's fine if you simply admit it. But stop pretending that it is anything else. You are holding us back. Time to let go of your dogma.

>>15290945
let me rephrase that for you
>reality is a thing we get to observe

>taking reality out of context
you got to be shitting me

>>15290959
Who observes it?

>>15289855
Nigger

>>15290953
>If you say "we don't know yet but materialism can explain it," then you are engaging in faith - materialism is your religion. That's fine if you simply admit it. But stop pretending that it is anything else. You are holding us back.
Um based ....

You earned this waifu anon

>>15290953
oops forgot link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQPf75viCDg

>>15290945

This is actually kind of true. Some people can't handle their entire existence being completely redefined. Unfortunately the vast majority of people are raised under the materialist dogma, and they are also raised to allow their egoic mind to control them rather than them controlling their egoic mind.

Society needs a complete reworking if we want to continue progress. Otherwise we will fall into a nihilistic void dominated by egoic minds, which is where we are quickly heading. More pain, suffering, violence rather than peace, love, and grace.

>>15290953
>>15290966

>>15290977
>the schizo is projecting again

>>15290953
>The brain cannot create thoughts if it is physical
false.

>>15290977
I am surprised you didn't say he was me, you are doing a little better with your symptoms and schizo behavior at least. Keep up the good work anon!

>>15290976

Also I note that I have never taken a psychedelic trip. You can arrive to the same conclusion through pure logic and critical thinking. But you must be brutally honest with yourself and let go of your egoic mind and identities to do so. You must face the abyss. Be careful, it can swallow you in despair or lift you to a higher plane of existence. It's up to you.

>>15290953
>they are the only thing that is real
saying it doesnt make it a fact
>There is no mechanism for the physical to generate or transmute into mental.
there is
>Since the brain is the same as all other matter, no matter is physical
causation/correlation aint the same m8
>What we perceive as physical is our fictional perception of these mentalities
yes thats how perception works, what we percieve is a manifestation of a delta
>materialism is your religion
>the science is settled

if anything whats holding us back is humanities 7 sins. i think we need to step away from this emotion culture we have

>>15290979

K show us how mental thoughts come from physical material. Show me the matter that is my mind.

Or do you just believe?

>>15290986

>>15290986
Very, very few people get there without psychedelics. Congrats.

>>15290962
we observe. we are merely passerbys in a longer play. we have developed a way to have these terms, a dog isnt on that level yet in terms of expressing it i see what you are trying again we wont be having that

>>15290993
A dog creates you and you create your dog. It's all an illusion. There is no separateness in reality, it's all just mind doing mind.

>>15290976
>egoic
>nihilistic
these dont really blend
its the extroverts that fuck shit up

>>15290988

>saying it doesnt make it a fact

So you dispute that you exist? That is your position? Okay then. If we can't even agree that you exist then we can't agree on anything.

>there is

Show us then.

>causation correlation

Show us then. How is any matter fundamentally different from other matter?

>>15290976

>>15290995
how can a dog create something as complex as a human, it cant. all our concepts are non existent in the dog where do those come from if the mind is the only thing
you going to propose a hivemind now

>>15291006
Simple, he just observes you. And there you are, popped into existence for his delight.

This is post-rational. Psychonauts get this, as do serious, life-long spiritual practitioners. You with your reductionist mindset can't get it, sorry to say.

>>15291004

Good point. One cannot actually control egoic thoughts. The brain is an organ that does its own thing. It's up to us what we choose to do with them and how we want to interact beyond ourselves.

>>15291000
thats a rather polarised way of thinking, you are assuming shit from your own limited perspective.
because i deny the mind being the only real thing i am suddenly denying everything? no, no sane mind would say that but one locked onto believing the world is nothing but thought then yes it would be saying that.
its action reaction, electrical impulse is a physical thing creating an electrical output that translates into thought.

>causation correlation
>if one chinese man is bad all chinese men must be bad
this is your brain right now

>>15291009
well there you go again making dumb assumptions. let me tell once you are convinced of yourself is where you start going downhill.
i have gone on trips a multitude of times.
you gotta explain that reductionist bs to me because i dont do feelings hence philosophy

>>15291014

>assuming shit from your own limited perspective

No, YOU are doing that. You believe what you perceive is real. I understand that our perception is fictional.

I feel like I'm talking in bizarro world.

>>15291009
>Simple
>he just
>pops into existence
yes very sane human talk

>>15291021

All matter is the same. We evolved to perceive patterns in a way that was beneficial to us. Other animals have different perceptions. The only reason why you see a "chair" is because we've constructed the idea of a chair. If a random squiggle was useful to us, we would make that into an object and call it reality. But a chair is the same matter as water as gold as feces as your brain. It's all the SAME matter.

>>15291021
>i dont do feelings
There's your problem. You assume logic and rationality is somehow way, way, way above feelings to the point where you'll actively dismiss your own feelings. You'll call love a chemical reaction, you'll call fear a chemical reaction. You'll call insight a chemical reaction.

Never quite getting the point. The point that your precious logic, and your precious rationality is itself just another feeling.

I won't post here anymore because I'm afraid I'll make someone shizo. Just study esoteric texts if you want to learn why.

>>15291026
Do you feel any effort when you manifest a lemon in front of you when you observe it? That's the same effort your dog feels when he manifests you. In other words, none.

>>15291012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U68B0MW4GIA

>>15291022
they have this nice saying over where i live
if the room starts smelling like shit maybe check your shoes
you feel that way because you are the one disconnected.
you dont understand our perceptional
>you think our perception is fictional
big difference there m8

>>15291012
forgot time stamp
https://youtu.be/U68B0MW4GIA?t=184

>>15291029

Can you recommend resources for other interested people?

>>15291047
Start with Zen Buddhism, it's the quickest way and least fluffy.

Or just start watching wise men on youtube, that will get you up to speed in no time.
>Alan Watts
>Ram Dass
>Manly P Hall
To name just a couple.

>>15291028
the matter IS
the delta ISN'T
>>15291030
the dog cannot think of our motions/control/habits. it wont know so it cant think of those things
>>15291029
there you go assuming again, you are assuming i have made choices
rationality is above feelings, feelings didnt bring your airpods
believe you me i do feel, they are in fact chemical reactions. what we choose to do with them however is our own choice in most cases. what you are confused about is the ultimate goal differences with personality types. you are assuming everyone is the same and has the same affinities
alturism has had its time, now its time for introversion and unrequited love

>>15291029
>I won't post here anymore because I'm afraid I'll make someone shizo.

I struggled with this myself for a long time, piercing the veil can be quite a burden to bear. Is it fair to try to escort others to the other side? Yes, the consequences of not doing no are too great. We are in spiritual warfare trying to ascend to a higher plane and there are quite literally demonic entities trying to keep us trapped here. If you dont want to be a slave and have your descendants be slaves, you better start trying to wake people up for the showdown of the ages

>>15291047
>>15291048
>>15291036
>>15291034
>>15291031
>>15291030
>>15291029
>>15291028
>>15290966
(you)

Immaterialism can't explain psychadelics

>>15291060
>people
the muggles as it were. I invested 7 years here looking for wolves, you are the wolf I invested all this time into to lead the sheep. You have a responsibility now. You were quite literally chosen by God, who worked through me to wake you up because it is your dharma >>15291029

>>15291068
It can try to, but it fails laughably. Anyone who's had a DMT breakthrough knows this reality isn't the only reality. And what's more, the DMT reality is completely impervious to rational investigation so nobody will ever get it, all anyone can do is experience it.

Humans can create life
But can't live forever

>>15291068
materialism can't explain psychedelic or literal OOB experiences earned through meditation

>>15291068
>>15291074
>muh drugs are majyck
adorable
Continue clutching to those gods of the gaps, neuroscience will get to completely naturalistic explanations of supposedly mystical drug trips and then you can drop your LARPs
2 more weeks until materialism dies

>mind is fundamental
>but you still have to obey physical law
pick one only.

>>15291090
Define physical law

>>15291087
Materialism is only the defacto paradigm for a couple hundred years, you're acting as if the moment humans came on the planet everyone was already thinking in terms of matter. It is a recent invention, and it won't last much longer. It will break under the pressure of cognitive sciences which will press on the hard problem until cracks appear in the materialist paradigm. Then we'll need another paradigm.

>>15291093
earth's gravity for example.

>>15291096
You dont have gravity in your dreams? When you are dreaming are you just floating around in the sky?

>>15291049

What delta?

Now that you admit that all matter is the same, explain how mentalities arise from the brain. You can't because the mental is not physical. You cannot reduce the mental to physical. If you could, the mental would be physical. But it's not.

The matter that we call a brain appears to generate mentalities (or "generates mentalities" to use your language). The only way this is possible is if the brain fundamentally mental.

If you believe that the mental exists, then you are not a materialist and must logically reach the conclusion that all matter is fundamentally mental.

If you do not believe that the mental exists, then you do not exist. But you do exist. Or at least I do lol.

Existence is proof that matter is fundamentally mental. In other words, existence is proof of God.

>>15291076
Human reproduction doesn't create life it combines two living cells into a third living cell which then grows and divides and orvanizes via bioelectric signals into a baby

Our refined brains are only capable of perceiving language and boring memories, but we are all made out of cells

what we perceive is different from what we are

>>15291100
depends on the dream, i might be.

>>15291103
What cells get lucky enough to form into my brain?

>>15291085
Sure it can.
Psychadelics cause abnormal signal processing in the brain, and therefore hallucinations of all sorts within the mind.
"Out of body experiences" are also hallucinations.

>>15291102
The mental results from the physical. Your argument is simply wrong, and based on nothing.

>>15291115
>blah blah blah blah blah look at all these explanations i have for things i never experienced or if i did i probably took a dose so weak i barely felt it
Try a breakthrough dose and tell me how it went.

>>15291108
https://youtu.be/fhrNgXJ__n8?t=32

>>15291102
matter the same atoms not
explained
You cannot reduce the mental to physical
it doesnt go the other way around unless you count secundairy effects
stop being shizo, you are saying that you can only believe in the mental or you wouldnt exist. so no one would oppose your view and there would be no problem for you

>>15291119

That's your belief system. The burden is on you to prove it and show us how. Go, the floor is yours.

>>15291114
Meaningless question

>>15291119
Not him but what exactly is material argument based on, if not nothing? It's convenient for certain things, but completely fails to take consciousness into account, so what good is it if it has no actual ontological explanatory value?

>>15291120
Been there done that. If you really think any of what you experience in a trip would be outside the capabilities of the brain to generate, then you haven't taken a big enough dose yet.

>>15291124
>>15290953
>no matter is physical

i saw youyr ramblings, thats no explanation

>>15291132
I've taken doses where my body ceased to be, material reality was a vague memory, and there was nothing but infinity. You're trying to unroll the unexplainable to something you can lay on the floor and begin explaining - good luck with that.

>>15291132
disagree, the brain works with what is there

>>15291127
Consciouness simply arises from sufficiently complex information processing systems that contain internal feedback connections.
For some people the implication of this (ie, fish are conscious, bugs are conscious, the network of stock trading computers worldwide may be conscious) is uncomfortable, but guess what faggot quantum mechanics made everyone uncomfortable too but it's how things work.
It's literally just a phase change which occurs beyond a threshold of information processing. It's not special like so many people want it to be.

>>15291135
>>15291140
>the brain works with what is there
Yes, in terms of physical hardware. That doesn't mean anything you experience is physically real or meaningful. You can omly ever see/experience variations of what you always see/experience. And as for feeling deep meaning, yeah, hyperstimulating the portion of your brain which processes emotions and feelings of importance is gonna make you feel like what you're seeing is immensely meaningful.

>>15291147
How is that different to saying that your current experience is meaningless? You're painting yourself into a corner.

>>15291141
>Consciouness simply arises from sufficiently complex information processing systems
There is exactly 0 evidence for this. You just made it up and now you believe it based on nothing.

>>15291141

That's your belief. That's your religion. Feel free to actually prove it any time now

Trees have more similarities to a human brain then computer simulations

unlike apparently most other idealists, kastrup at least has the sense to deny free will

>>15291155
>There is exactly 0 evidence for this. You just made it up and now you believe it based on nothing.
It's a common position among anti-human drones. Denigrating the human experience is the only way they can make "AI" word-joiners seem functional and intelligent.

>>15290990

>>15291164

No one can prove or disprove absolute free will. But we can say that will is free from the physical world.

>>15291175
nah

Are humans made of the same atoms as steel or wood?

>>15291175
I give it a pretty good go. Anyone is free to critique this article but most of the people on this board are too stupid to understand and will just say retarded shit and be too retarded to be corrected or debate it because .... well they are retards.

My arguments are sound
https://esotericawakening.com/is-free-will-an-illusion

>>15290547

>>15291163
Slime molds too!

OP is quite right about deduction of experience. It's just not possible for you to analyze an object and somehow know the experience of the thing, i.e. Nagel's bat.

Any example of inferrence of experience is inherently self-referential and circular. You will never, ever know someone else's pain. Just accept this.

>>15291177

What are atoms?

>>15291165
>anti-human drones
The vitalist schizo is at it again. Go spam your wojacks.
Come to think of it, idealism is the last gasp of vitalism. From a cosmic and absolute standpoint, "life" doesn't even exist. Traditional religions have been BTFOd a long time ago but vitalist idealists manage to grab onto the last tiniest gods of the gaps like their primordial consciousness that computers wil tooooootally never have

>>15289910
The sensation of my arm exists in my mind. Doesn't that mean it exists? It doesn't prove that it exists "physically" the way my mind is convinced it does, but "my arm" exists at least as an idea and a sensory transducer within my mind.

>>15290817
>there does not need to be consciousness for matter to be
prove it, kys and see if there is any matter lying around anymore

>>15290851
>saying the words doesnt make it real
Just like saying that the universe will exist after you're dead. Doesn't make it real.

>>15289807
>he doesn't know consciousness is an inherent quality of matter.

the only reason a rock can't see like you can is because it doesn't have the facilities to do so. not because it doesn't have consciousness.
you can see how this is most likely the case when you look at the gradient of animal experiences.

When you die all your memories and everything your good at will be deleted but the cells remain... but I think being put in the ocean would be a good idea

>>15290993
>we
My mind exists. You are a part of it. There is no we.

>>15291006
>>15291009
Neither of you understand. There is no dog. There is no you. There is only me.

>>15291236
>15291236
there still would be my body
how about you kys, you think you live in a sim so you will respawn right, right?

>>15291240
well that is the fact.
stating a fact is wrong doesnt make it wrong
waht you experience and what is there is never the same yet it is linked
>Just like saying that the universe will exist after you're dead. Doesn't make it real.
so you want me to defend your point from your perspective or do you want me to defend popular theory?

>>15291265
well if you say only you are real why dont you stab a police officer and find out

>>15291100
I used to often have dreams where I would just walk around in the air and go as high as I wanted. I would just step on the air and think to myself why I hadn't done it sooner. It's so simple. Just step on the air.

>>15291300
>the creator allowed you to create a simulation within a simulation
>some rules can be bent ... others can be broken

>>15291300
fun fact you have been stepping on air your whole life

>>15291120
Hilarious that you ingest a physical substance that causes physical reactions in your physical body, the effects of which eventually wear off after your physical body physically metabolizes it and this makes you believe that you transcended the physical.

>>15291309
>the creator
lol

>>15291317
>your IQ
top lel

>>15291279
>there still would be my body
midwit confirmed

>>15291254
Not me. When I die, everything will disappear. I should say if.

>>15291321
>using IQ as a leading reference
>using a reference
this is abstract to you, its all in your head
just like that creator of yours

>>15291295
Let's see if you can eat something and stop your stomach from digesting it. Can you not? But isn't it part of you?

>>15291337
death is coming dont you worry

>>15291346
If I die, it's "you" that needs to worry.

>>15291342
Yes this is true, and I have clearly assigned you the status of retard level intellect

>>15291349
ok mr cregaytor
good luck with your ostrich theory

>YUO CANT KNO NUTHIN! MIND IS ALL THERE IS!!!
>THERFORE, I KNOW EVERYTHING BOUT REALITY AND DEATH IS FAKE AND GAY!
Idealism, everybody

>>15291357
ah yes ofcourse, i have my intellect from some godcomplex shizo retard incabable of criticism who believes in magic men and emotions
yep got me good

>>15291373
>seething schizo is projecting again
Go to a board more your speed, lgbt is probably a good fit for you

>>15291382
>still believes in having a single obsessed stalker rather than the reality that every non-schizo materialist realist is laughing at him
This dude

>>15291393
Oh you are some other schizo? Ok that's fine. I have no problem accepting there are more than one of you here. The thing is mentally ill people all have shared traits schizo, that is what makes their mental illness able to be classified you see. So without a face to put with your schizo posts and attitude, you all look the same buddy. Do you understand how this works or does it need to be simplified further?

Just kidding. I know it is you you fucking schizo moron

>>15290186
"are you evil or just ignorant, yes or no!"

>>15291382
im guessing you are an expert
not really my speed, i am more into data and the interpretation of it
really helps me separate reality from fiction you know what i mean, mister maybe not as potent as he thought

>>15289807
Objective reality is fully materialistic. Consciousness is subjective, it does not exist as far as the material world is concerned. I claim to have a subjective experience, to have Consciousness. But any observations you could ever possibly make would find nothing but chemicals within my brain dictating all my behaviors. Consciousness is beyond explanation, materialistic or otherwise.

>no really it's all mental and we have free will so we're just choosing to suffer diseases, disasters, wars, and famines! we just choooooooose! cancer is voluntary!!!

>>15291416
silly.

>everything obviously has a material explanation

>except the thing that i have a vested interest in being special

I can't wait for AI to replace us.

>>15290062
Yeah the inequality of women not having to die in wars and getting free shit for having a vagina

>>15291441
Don't say "women" when you're only making a statement about cis-women.

>>15291441
Men, who were sent to die by other men.

tf is this?

>>15290062

Ummm no sorry sweetie I reject your fiction

>>15291481

What board is that loser on?

Hey materialists, why do you have morals? Not in an abstract sense, but every day. You choose not to kill, steal, etc etc every moment of your existence. Why?

>>15291401
>I kno it all cuz the DMT elves told me so!!!

>>15289807
There may indeed perhaps not be any way to give a proof of a materialist solution to the hard problem of conciousness.

I think if one takes this problem seriously and holds a materialistic world view, one has to accept that conciousness is a funcamental property of matter in some way.

Now that might seem somewhat outlandish, but then again, postulating dualism and stopping there (or invoking a god to justify this) is not exactly a productive explanation either.

>>15290888
More like pyrosome earth

>>15289807
What do I need consciousness for? My AI can do all that humans can and more.

>>15289807
Conciousness is produced by the brain

>>15289807
While, correct, this is not the gotcha you think it is. It simply means that materialism cant account for the apodictic character of ideal entities, which are aimed at by consciousness. So you cant fully explain consciousness without relying on ideal entities. Doesnt mean our brain isnt necessary for conscious operation or that it's an fucking antenna or that we are all dreaming the same dream.

>>15291571
Consciousness is stored in the balls

>>15291580
I don't think anyone ever made any those claims? Besides we arent sharing a dream, we are in God's "dream"

>>15291580
kek cool meme btw, you made it yourself?

>>15291580
>or that it's an fucking antenna
actually this part was claimed and it can be proven conclusively in fact but most people will not understand the proofs even I write about them in detail in the article I wrote on the topic. One could argue against if they knew what they are talking about as there is a possible other explanation, but not anyone here or course

>>15291602
Ad hoc babble

>>15291619
Not proven at all, go back to /x/ you schizo

Prove me that I'm conscious.

>>15291580
makes no sense.

>>15291608
No, I have a version that's not for ants on another computer.
>>15291619
Oh c'mon. Same argument as before. A radio is no less a materialistic explanation. You can try and hide behind quantum bs or multidimensional shittery but you cannot deny that the principle of an antenna is known to us predominantly because it is materially incarnated.
>>15291652
Bot.

>>15291571
>Conciousness is produced by the brain

Pure religion. You have no evidence for it. You can not articulate how a material brain can produce consciousness.

>>15289859
This is a science board. We don't appreciate unfalsifiability in statements.

>>15291758
Depends. There are no explanation of qualia that stands, or even close to it.
Consciousness however is mostly the assembly of perceptual inputs into a single flux. We understand that sense input appears to us as a value on a "map". Vision is the creation of a field intersected by lines and qualified by coloration. Hearing tracks the value of sound across a temporal field. Touch maps our own bodily limits.
There is a beginning of a structural understanding of consciousness by science. I mean how the fuck are the guys who figured out how to create color correcting lenses react to a cunt like Dennett saying all colors are illusions anyways?

>>15291740
if there is no free will how do you suggest our behavior is being controlled then? If humans werent being constantly "programmed" with updated software how do you think the kali yuga could occur? You can actually prove that magnetic charges change behavior like belief in God and even how you feel about fucking immigration using the "God Helmet." There is no question that something in magnetic waves can control human behavior. The only thing in question is how exactly it is happening. I cover all this in my article I have written and posted on this board countless times. I mean there is no debate to be had it is a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-magnet-can-change-your-faith-in-god
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3272289/Could-views-God-immigration-changed-using-MAGNETS-Brain-stimulation-alter-beliefs-study-claims.html

If you care to posit an alternative explanation feel free, but it is a fact and isn't a question of if, only how. Since you didnt know any of this I just explained however you arent likely to be able to come up with anything without actually understanding everything I already explained which obviously isnt going to be any time soon

>>15291795
You know some dude figured out how to mind control flies with light a few years ago, right? He just biohacked them, figured which cluster of 12 neurons was responsible for "positive" and " "negative" (which behaviourly translate in the case of flies as " approach" and " run away", had them grow with photosensitive surfaces, and with the flick of a light he's getting them to go where he wants.

>>15291795
>https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-magnet-can-change-your-faith-in-god
Much less surprising than you would think. Respect/challenge of authority is based in part on cognitive functions. God is the absolute archetype of authority.

>>15291060
Tried this, and I don't have friends anymore. Timeline split back in 2020, not everyone's going bro.

>>15291811
No I didnt know about this. I dont think light can work on humans however, whatever signal the god is sending to us in the magnetic field of the aether itself. I would like to look more into this however just to have some background into it got any specific sources I should check out or just jewgle and look around? BTW parasites and fungus can change behavior as well in lifeforms

>>15291834
kek aint that truth my nonja. Oh well 5d bros man, we wont leave you hanging. You can join my forex trading discord if you want with other initiates if you ever want to just shoot the shit with people who arent muggles

>>15291864
Give link then

>>15291864
>I would like to look more into this however
Gero Miesenboeck

>>15291870
ty guv

>>15291869
j3TKgYR

>>15289807
bad quality b8

mysticism of the gaps

>>15291878
The only gap is in your teeth from taking too much bbc down your thrizzoat

>>15289858
They can measure brain waves. If anything, the shape of our consciousness is the chemical cascade that flows through our brain. Just like a river isn't a fixed object, but one that is made of the motion of smaller components, our minds are emergent from the rhapsody of electrical impulses flowing and intermingling in our wrinkly bits

>>15290147
I have will and didn't have to pay a dime for it. They just hand that shit out nowadays

>>15291592
An artist's rendition

>>15289844
Descartes already had this dialogue. Skepticism isn't healthy bro

>>15292934
>Descartes already had this dialogue
I am well aware. 99% of the mouth breathers on this board didnt even know who Descartes was before I told them mate. Never underestimate how uneducated and clueless the people here are

>>15291914
hot

>>15289844
Pic related, guy is reinventing Buddhism.

>>15291874
Doesnt even work ;-;

>>15289859
Admitting your arguments aren't falsifiable is a concession of defeat

>>15289858
get a load of this guy

>>15293496
Since 23rd September 2017 didn't pan out for you, are you going to be making any other failed doomsday predictions based on your psychotic delusions?

>>15296701
Well yah not a fucking day later it doesnt. I didnt want every schizo and their mother to join faggot
MgJ32Td

that code is good for 6 hours

>>15296767

>>15296778
No comment on the failed doomsday prediction? You must be pretty embarrassed about that, huh?

Materialism/mind brain identity theory get a little bit easier to comprehend when you apply determinism to the brain…At least I find it easier to understand my own consciousness as material when I think about it in the perspective of every neuron firing being completely predetermined. The experience is still weird, but that weird feeling was predetermined as well

>>15296779
Im rich, highly intelligent and handsome, you are poor, stupid and ugly. What in the world I have to be embarrassed about? You would murder every shitskin in your shitskin village to live one week in my shoes which is why I make you seethe uncontrollably

>>15296931
>What in the world I have to be embarrassed about?
This desu.
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/138010792
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/142390585
Pic related, it's you.

>>15296992
>projecting schizo

>>15296992
Oof, that's hard to live down.

>>15297027
>schizo replying to himself again

Determinism does not exclude free will.
Materialism doesn't require determinism.
Materialism isn't compatible with free will.

Retarded thread. Ignored.

>>15296992
kek

>>15297416
Then removing your head from your body shouldn't affect your mental state or future choices, so go do that.

>>15297416
>War is peace.
>Freedom is slavery.
>2+2=5

>>15297425
>>15297437
>typed "Materialism isn't compatible with free will"
>meant to type "Materialism isn't incompatible with free will"
>Meant to type that so people would have to debate or respond to my post so I could explain my theory will still being the "cool kid" that BTFO'd OP
>Now I have to leave the thread in shame

>>15297416
Literally nothing you said has anything to do with the subject of the thread

>>15296776
Send it again dammit

>>15298993
BFPzHKyZ

>>15299036
I tried joining but it said it was a server with one single member. I don't know what the fuck you're up to.

>>15299036
Why are you the only one in there bro

>>15299051
oh fuck posted the wrong link one sec I will dm you the actual one. this is my perosnal server to be able to send shit back and forth from my pc to my phone and save links and shit

>>15299051
I kicked you off that server and dm'ed you a new invite

>>15297416
What in the actual fuck is going on here?

>>15299291
>>15299294
Can you post another invite here? I didn't join the server when i saw there was only one member, you DMed someone else.

>>15289807
>matter and consciousness have absolutely nothing to do with eachother.

IQ test: failed

>>15289855
easy: nigger.

i can also play chess

>>15289807
Neurons in the brain do the work, we simply don't know exactly how it all happens yet but if I cut your head your mytical conciousness is gone, its so obvious 10 years old understands it, I have no idea why are you even trying to debate this.

And if you want to go "conciousness creates reality" route then give me a break, literally every fairy tale you can think of is true then, its reasonable to believe that we are just co-creators.

>>15303383
>And if you want to go "conciousness creates reality" route then give me a break
The problem is that reality ends up being defined by your own conscious experience or some collective conscious consensus. That doesn't mean anything can pop into reality for everyone to see, but rather there's no way to separate consciousness from the realities you and others believe in. You can say there's some kind of objective base reality instead but there's no way to access it anyway.

>>15302686
Ever heard of the Hard Problem of Consciousness? There is no connection between the two.

>>15304337
Then why can't I remove all the matter than makes you you and still get a conscious response from the immaterial you?

>>15290953
This is already disproved. AI can now understand your thoughts and output what you were thinking.

https://techstory.in/ai-can-read-your-mind-researchers-use-ai-to-generate-images-based-on-peoples-brain-activity/