/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15289385
People who use "logic" to mean anything other than formal systems of symbol manipulation are retards. Most materialists fall into that category.

>>15289385
they're motivated by delusion

>>15289390
A word can have meanings that differ based on context, many logicians have been materialists, Bertrand Russel for instance, this is beside the point

>>15289385
Mr. Spock is a fictional character. Reason and logic are a thin veneer over a maelstrom of seething emotions. That’s just how she do

>>15289405
What emotions rest behind materialism that are greater than those that lie behind belief in God, a soul, afterlife etc., even if it is conceded that emotion lies behind materialism, I remain unconvinced that they are greater than those that contradict it

>we're the logical ones
You promote a religion, not science and are too stupid to realize it.
>while also stealing your opponents words for a "no you"
Ah yes, the ole "no you" when you get dunked on. Clearly logic and reason

>>15289410
Why you got to bring the big G into the equation? Everything is fundamentally motivated by emotion is the argument I’m making because we’re fundamentally emotional creatures

>>15289411
If materialism is a religion, it would be a very strange religion indeed, quite distinct from any other. It offers no claims of a God, soul, afterlife, reincarnation, meaning, or any other such religious claims. Whereas anti-materialism is full of the emotions that has motivated superstition for thousands of years, a desire for meaning, fear of death, desire for justice, it bears a far greater resemblance to religion than materialism.

>>15289421
>It offers no claims of a God, soul, afterlife, reincarnation, meaning, or any other such religious claims.
It claims that those things are all fake.

>>15289417
Perhaps everything is motivated by emotion, but not to the same degree.

>>15289423
sorry that your magical crutches are being denied sweaty :'(

>>15289426
You sound somewhat emotionally motivated.

>>15289423
You act as though the belief that they are real is the universal default

>>15289385
What is materialism?

>>15289428
of course, i feel annoyance when people cling to completely unobservable things.

>>15289432
I don't really care what the "universal default" is, because consensus isn't scientific. I only wanted to point out that you made some significant claims but have yet to provide any compelling evidence for them.

>>15289435
Such as the emergence of consciousness from meat? Or maybe the spontaneous generation of living matter from unliving elements?

>>15289404
If the meaning of logic you use is "something my feelings tell me is objectively correct" then you are a retard and your thoughts have no value.

>>15289421
You have no proof of your claims and your claims in fact go against all empirical data and logic. How is that you are confused that materialism is a cult and not science? If it was science you will simply debunk the points I brought up in the screenshot I posted, you can't which is why you appeal to emotion, name call, sperg out, deflect, ad hom as nasueum.

"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell." - quoted by an Illinois native, Carl Sandburg, in The People, Yes (1936)

>>15289439
the primacy of the brain is at this point beyond dispute. abiogenesis is reasonably contested, however it's currently the most plausible idea.

>>15289385
Materialist theories trying to explain consciousness ultimately reduce to consciousness not being real. The only people who unironically believe in materialism are P-zombies.

https://nintil.com/consciousness-and-its-discontents

>What theories do I think are probably true, with probabilities, as of today:

>1. Neutral monism/Panpsychism(60%)
>2. Interactionist dualism(30%)
>3. Epiphenomenalism(10%)
>4. Idealism(~epsilon%)
>5. Non-interactionist dualism(~epsilon%)
>6. Identity theory(~0% as it rejects consciousness as real)
>7. Eliminativism(~0% as it rejects consciousness as real)

>>15289448
Both of these specious claims require proof you have yet to provide.

>>15289385
I don't think you're thinking about it right. Everyone's emotional and has biases and whatnot. The real big difference is between people who will sit and contemplate different perspectives, biases, and so on, and those who will trust their gut instinct and damn the consequences as a general rule.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0267360
Ain't even joking. They're literal NPC's just going with their intuitions instead of testing their ideas to see if they're wrong. Worse, only go for confirmatory bias instead of falsification.

If you want a real laugh ability to do logic/numeracy and open mindedness probably explains most or all of the difference. More willing you are to find out how to, and become able to, rigorously examine different ideas results in less belief in the supernatural and less anti-materialism related beliefs. Even among philosophers https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359114933_Great_Minds_Do_Not_Think_Alike_Philosophers'_Views_Predicted_By_Reflection_Education_Personality_And_Other_Demographic_Differences

It's just the common sense result. You'd know this just by talking to these people. They can't/won't reflect or examine their reasoning for mistakes, and just believe because they believe mmmk

>>15289455
>It's just the common sense result. You'd know this just by talking to these people. They can't/won't reflect or examine their reasoning for mistakes, and just believe because they believe mmmk
The irony. This is how you know God has a sense of humor. He has locked us all that are actually capable of logic is a prison who can moves their mouths and say the words, yet completely devoid of understanding. This is what insanity looks like

>>15289466
>The irony. This is how you know God has a sense of humor. He has locked us all that are actually capable of logic is a prison who can moves their mouths and say the words, yet completely devoid of understanding. This is what insanity looks like
Given the evidence, well, you're wrong.

Sadly also given that evidence you won't care because you need to feel special.

>>15289466
*actually capable of logic in a prison with people

>>15289467
Ah yes, you are the mega-gia brained genius and all the ACTUAL geniuses all through history were "schizo retards." You are delusional friend, and need to sit down and think about what is actually wrong with you

>>15289426
There is no need to berate someone who does not want to go with you towards a cold truth, to live in a comfortable delusion is natural and not motivated by malice in the slightest, sometimes we must rest on the path to truth and it actually impedes a man's journey to interrupt his resting so harshly

>>15289478
You guys think way too high level about this stuff. It really is as basic as "can't do logic" and "goes with their feelings instead of checking for truth". Really basic stuff.

>>15289444
What feelings points towards materialism? Every impulse leads away from it, which is why so many remain deluded

>>15289435
You feel annoyance about your cult beliefs being challenged. It is called cognitive dissonance and the true reason you made this thread, not "logic and reason," You havent said a single logical or reasonable thing

>>15289424
That’s not the argument: there was no mention of relative values in the OP, ergo it’s a binary. Even if this weren’t the case, you essentially just conceded. I accept

>>15289486
>What feelings points towards materialism? Every impulse leads away from it, which is why so many remain deluded
Daddy issues and narcissism often result in promotion of materialist ideals.

>>15289447
I must ask, do you believe in an afterlife, reincarnation, God, or any other spiritual beliefs? If you do, it is very strange to say that I am a religious cultist. I have no religious or spiritual claims whatsoever.

>>15289496
>Daddy issues and narcissism often result in promotion of materialist ideals.
Well, no, clinical narcissism corresponds very highly with paranormal beliefs like APD (antisocial personality). Stands to reason given that whole "need to justify being special" which materialism really wouldn't support.

quick reminder that the psueds will spit word salad all day about how they are being "logical" and whatever other nonsense shit they will post but they will never address any points or arguments. They are sophists

>>15289499
I dont beLIEve in anything I can't prove to be true. That is the difference between someone who ACTUALLY uses logic and reason and a cultist. I will tell you what I know and what I think based on the facts and evidence and be very clear about which is which

>>15289496
And yet it is not narcissistic to claim that I have an immortal soul?

>>15289499
>I have no religious or spiritual claims whatsoever.
You made several strong spiritual claims with no evidence. Saying something doesn't and cannot exist is the strongest possible claim.

>>15289510
Not very much, no. Narcissists bristle at the idea that they might be judged for their behavior by an impartial observer. The daddy issues are of course self-evident I hope.

>>15289515
Freud was an atheist you blockhead, yet you seem to be using his nonsense theories to argue for your delusion

>>15289515
>Not very much, no. Narcissists bristle at the idea that they might be judged for their behavior by an impartial observer. The daddy issues are of course self-evident I hope.
You're thinking about narcissistic personality disorder wrong. For grandiose narcissists it's similar with antisocial personality disorder: Overt religiosity is a prime vehicle for manipulation and attention seeking, "holier than thou". Use of power structures against individuals. Covert narcissists do the same thing they just tend to cry out as they hit you and play perpetual victim.

So for both you have high orders of conspiracy theory beliefs, overt religiosity, and so on.

But feel free to just make shit up I guess? Maybe you got some of that narcissistic projection goin on?

>>15289411
What is your definition of a complex task?

>>15289533
>So for both you have high orders of conspiracy theory beliefs, overt religiosity, and so on.
Atheism is a religion.

>>15289537
>Atheism is a religion.
Didn't say you don't have atheists who are narcissists. It's just far more likely for narcissists to pursue power structures they can use to exploit others. Religion in a lot of places remains that pinnacle of power, or very high up there in local communities.

Just saying, you're thinking about narcissism wrong. They, most of all, exemplify all the conspiratorial thinking/bible thumping/cynicism/etc. SAme goes for things you'd describe "anti-materialistic".

This does not mean "all non-materialists are narcissists". If you think that you don't know how research or probability works.

>>15289486
Whatever feelings you have. You're just such a pseud you think your feelings aren't feelings.

>>15289541
It is obvious that anti-materialism is driven by a fear of death and desire for meaning, it is not as clear what irrational feeling would drive materialism in the same way

>>15289536
What is the definition of a non-complex task?

>>15289544
A fear of death and the potential for judgment.

>>15289536
>the watch that assembled itself
Sorry this is just pure delusion only capable after decades of indoctrination.

>>15289545
I don't know, you tell me

>>15289536
Watches cannot build and assemble themselves. When you think you can prove it can, let me know

>>15289555
>what is a complex task
Any task an organism performs to ensure its survival

>>15289544
In your case I'd guess a desire to feel superior to others.

>>15289552
Materialism affirms the view of death that all religions try and avoid, eternal oblivion. I don't fear judgement, because there will be no judgement, murders will go unsolved, fleeing criminals will not be caught, the good will suffer and the evil will prosper. You are in fact motivated by a desire for a final meaning and justice

>>15289562
Probably goes back to >>15289496 as an underlying cause.

>>15289562
once again

quick reminder that the psueds will spit word salad all day about how they are being "logical" and whatever other nonsense shit they will post but they will never address any points or arguments. They are sophists

>>15289562
This is coming from the people who say they will be in eternal paradise while I burn in hellfire, and you say I am the one who wants to feel righteous and superior

>>15289552
>>15289544
Neither. Fundamentally it's a lack of open mindedness and conscious reflection or investigation of ones ideas. Probably innumeracy is causal too. >>15289455

For death anxiety there's no real association and what association does exist (barely significant in only a few studies) is an "inverted-U" with the big caveat of stupidly high heterogeneity (difference) in study results with numerous null findings. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315327873_The_religious_correlates_of_death_anxiety_a_systematic_review_and_meta-analysis

Less that materialism or anti-materialism would be predictive of religiosity related to death anxiety, probably moreso that uncertainty and anxiety in general best explain death anxiety. Though "muh judgment day fear" narratives are pretty cute and manipulative.

>>15289561
So this is conscious?

>>15289576
>everyone who isnt a materialist cult is a Christuck
As I said, sophistry. It is all they have

>>15289580
What are you, a Buddhist? Will I be reborn as a cricket?

>>15289579
Yes

>>15289583
Your mind isnt able to process what I am, you cant even process what you are

>>15289556
Hoyle believed that life originated from an object such as a meteor that crashed into the Earth, this unproven theory does answer where life on Earth came from, but not where the life on that object came from

>>15289590
Kek, and you say I'm the one who has a superiority complex

>>15289597
>no life here or anywhere came from any primordial soup
reading comprehension is hard

>>15289584
Proof?

>>15289600
I never said that. You see there is name field with posts. Ones that don't have my name ... they aren't me. Weird right? I know, but it just the way the site is

>>15289605
People like you dont really want proof. Start with the Greeks

>>15289579
I, not only say Yes, but also they communicate with humanity using words, patters, shapes and colors as signals of their presence. Meta-behaviors, only occasionally interdicting upon human consciousness, leaving the user unaware they were acted upon, bevause it was "themselves" that did it.

Tell me, mortal human, did the ant choose this fate...or something else. Do you think his "consciousness" was cut off when he was hijacked?...or did the fungus feed his brain physiology the mechanics needed to impulse him so?

Do you see humans "impulsed" into anti-nature behavior in society?

>>15289609
So no proof...this claim is completely untestable, undifferentiated, unsubstantiated and is not science...

>>15289600
>superiority complex

>>15289617
Come on dude it's bodhi name a single time the man has linked a research paper like once. Ever. At all?

>>15289617
I have the proof and told you where to find it. Sophistry

>>15289556
This is answered by the the anthropic principle...

"What does it mean?"

>>15289622
Source: "the Greeks"

>>15289620
Sophistry
>>15287896
>>15288090

>>15289631
Yes the Greeks. You know there are sources of knowledge that existed before pseuds started outsourcing their thinking to papers and journals run by psued gatekeepers. There used to be things called books people read, check me out sometime

>>15289631
Pictured: Bodhi

>>15289636
Just because the Greeks were influential early philosophers does not mean they are the supreme authority on science, this is an appeal to authority fallacy, it is very foolish to hold the same scientific views as those who lived 2000 years ago without modern technology to measure the world, and besides some Greek philosophers were materialists eg. Democritus and Epicurus

>>15289642
>spoonfeed me source
>give source
>THIS IS AN APPEAL TO AUTHORITY
Dude are you actually fucking retarded?

Sophistry

JUST IGNORE THE POST THAT TAKES THE QUESTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS TO THE NEXT DIMENSION, GUYS.

IF YOU IGNORE IT YOU'LL NEVER FEEL INFERIOR, WHICH IS GOOD, RIGHT?

LITERALLY THE PROOF OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN A FUNGUS...WHATEVER.....

*cough*I'm an idiot.*cough*

>>15289642
As I said from jump you dont want a source. You just went something to insult with your sophistry.

>>15289644
>"viruses are conscious"
>"proof?"
>"the Greeks"
>"how is that scientific proof?"
>"RETARD SOPHIST SOPHIST RETARD!!!"

The Greek panpsychist Thales thought that the reason magnets attracted iron was because they had souls, do you seriously believe this rubbish?

>>15289655
>"viruses are conscious"
>"proof?"

THIS IS YOUR PROOF MOTHERFUCKER.

>>15289655
Bacterial, viral, fungal, plant, and various animals.

You have these genes IN YOU.

Hybridization, Symbiosis, Lateral Tranfers.

>>15289655
>do you seriously believe this rubbish?
Can it prove it isn't true? Then are you are pretty fucking stupid to call it rubbish aren't you? That is what you midwits will never understand. IF YOU CAN'T PROVE IT FALSE THEN STFU HALFWIT.

Do you understand what the HEIGHT of ignorance is? Do you have any inkling what quote rel is meant to convey? It is talking about you, and all the other psueds on this board like you. You don't know what you are talking about and your too much an ego maniac to stfu and listen because all you want to do is run your mouth all the time about things you have no idea what you are talking

"This is my body." was a literal meaning.

The plant genes were speaking, IT WAS LITERAL. Plants IS the body.

>>15289669
*talking about

anyway I am done arguing with the psued fucktards on this board about this topic for today. I effort posted 2 days in row spoonfeeding and tutoring you idiots and it is fucking exhausting dealing with yours egos and

>>15289655
You want a place to start? Start here and come back in 4 or 5 years when you actually understand it
https://esotericawakening.com/what-is-reality-the-holofractal-universe

>>15289655
Your questions have been answered.

Post response.

The only thing real is your present experience. That is you. Everything else you "know" is a constructed fiction.

Materialism is a religion. Their god is matter. They can't define it, they can't explain it, they can't prove it through logic. All they have is a belief that matter is fundamental. They are empty deep inside because their religion is founded on a complete lack of meaning. They let their egoic mind control them and have no true sense of self. Very sad.

The material delusion. A dying ideology, a dying religion. Materialism unironicallly killed itself by continuing to try and find fundamental matter, only to find that there is nothing there. You pdeuds just haven't come to terms with that yet because your church hasn't told you yet. We are here telling you the truth and you want to stone us.

>>15289706
>your present experience
>your
Or are you bio-electrically co-experiencing?
>>15289616

I have the Genetics and Deveolpmental Biology links to boot.

>>15289706
>Materialism
Ah, a cultist. Nevermind, I'll keep it "esoteric" and detached from reality.

>>15289706
kek I love this post so much anon. uber based. I will add it to the screenshot I posted above for the next thread when we are dunking on the psueds

>>15289733

Fix my pseuds typo in the screenshot lol

But really it is sad that nearly everyone is completely closed minded. Some willfully, some not.

>>15289385

How does a materialist follow logic when his position has not been able to explain the only thing we can be certain of more more than 100 years?

>>15289421
The god for the materialist is this life.

An implication of materialism is the promise of no life after death. It is a comforting idea that it ends with the body, but unfortunately for the materialist, materialism is poorest metaphysics on the table since it can't explain the most important thing of all - consciousness.

>>15289451
Cartesian dualist Chad here.

>>15289478
>to live in a comfortable delusion is natural
Sounds like you know from experience since you and the other people in your cult got ass raped in this thread bro.

>>15289385
Nothing is more comforting than the idea that you will cease to exist at some point. Unfortunately, the notion of an end to consciousness is pure metaphysical speculation.

First, no first-person evidence is possible, because you can never distinguish between lack of memory of consciousness on the one hand, and lack of consciousness on the other.

And second, no third-person evidence is possible either, because consciousness in others is not publicly obvservable. You only infer consciousness in others by stipulating a common cause of certain types of behaviors, based on the fact that in your own case, they are associated with consciousness. But as per the reason for why you cannot infer absence of consciousness in yourself, you cannot infer absence of consciousness in others either. In fact, for the inductive argument from isomorphism to even get off the ground, consciousness has to be causally efficacious, else no public observable would every justify stipulating consciousness because consciousness can never be the cause of anything, and no private evidence could exist either because consciousness could not even indirectly cause your own knowledge of being conscious. But if consciousness qua consciousness is causally efficacious, then materialism is either false or meaningless.

>>15289835
This is what masturbating to David Chalmers every night does to a person.

>>15289385
Science works by devising abstract mathematical structures that relate measurement outcomes. The measurement outcomes are observables, i.e. terminate in consciousness. A straightforward, realist interpretation.of science then posists concrete entities as nodes in a causal network in which those mathematical structures are instantiated. Given that consciousness is one pole of the cause-effect relation, for reasons of parsimony we must locate the other pole in consciousness as well. So the universe is a network of interacting conscious agents of various complexity and at various scales and levels of organization as captured by the various sciences. At bottom, we are things that react to information as it presents itself to us by virtue of our architecture. Everything else works like this too; the simpler the thing, of course,, the simpler and more predictable its representation of and reaction to the world.

How is that more "mystical" than positing an unobservable metaphysical category called matter, and then waving your hands when pressed to explain how this stuff is supposed to interact with or generate consciousness, or how abstract mathematical laws are supposed to dictate the behavior of the universe?

>>15289467
Correct me if I am wrong but It looks like there is only one side posting arguments and evidence in this thread. Me thinks you are an expert in the art of projection.

>>15289706
How is materialism a religion or cult, when it does not claim the existence of any Gods, spirits or an afterlife of any kind. It is also not "dying" as most scientists agree with it today. Religious thinking mainly occurs where there are gaps in our understanding, such as consciousness, wherein people claim transcendental, supernatural or divine explanations. It is not unlikely that our scientific understanding of consciousness will be greatly improved through neuroscience, biology, physics, physchology etc..., and in the meantime there is no need to resort to magical explanations

>>15289669
How does one investigate if magnets have souls? The answer is simple, you cannot, this nonsense cannot be tested, differentiated or falsified and is not science

>>15289827
How is materialism "comfortable"?

>>15289669
Einstein was a materialist atheist, but you probably think you know more than him

>>15289686
This is a bunch of schizophrenic rubbish. You do realise Atlantis was an allegory, this reminds me of Spirit Science

>>15290024
>Religious thinking mainly occurs where there are gaps in our understanding
Yeah, Academia.
>our
No. These threads get insta-filtered in STEM. You guys keep it Pure Dialectics as an "argument with no resolution because fighting was the whole point".

People here manifest definitions upon reality that contradict reality then reject reality because it doeant fit the defintion. Dividing one thing into two true parts and use the one to disprove the other, leaving themselves more ignorant and brainwashed than before.

..sad part is is most Academia gets filtered by STEM too these days.

>and in the meantime there is no need to resort to magical explanations

EXHIBIT A; The STEM slips by but remains unseen, his lack of understanding in (neuroscience, biology, physics, physchology) makes him unable to comprehend not only psudo-science but fantasy and reality itself. He has no choice but to stay where he can understand, in a cult thread.

>>15289686
https://youtube.com/watch?v=T9q-v4lBGuw&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE

>>15290039
that quote is from a jew, a parasite who should never be paid attention to. that explains the motive behind the quote.

>>15290052
>posts charlatan clown
People who get caught lying have no business lecturing.

Youre retarded for poisoning your mind with that trash.

>>15290039
But, Anon...persecution without warranted and just confirmation is the pinnacle of stupidity

>>15290067
LOL, yet you're peddling anti materialistic gnostic babble, philosophy is quite literally a tool made by jews to warp the minds of susceptible whites

>>15290039
Einstein was not an atheist or materialist faggot, one of his favorite books was ISIS unveiled

>>15290045
There you go running your mouth again about things you don't know anything about/

>>15290138
He absolutely was, you fucking retard.
>The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

>>15290152
"Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous." - Albert Einstein

Idiot

>>15290157
You have been embarrassed and exposed as a lying buffoon. Be ashamed.

>>15289385
logic and reason only exists on the basis of subjective consensus. Humans are fundamentally irrational and emotional creatures, but we invent logic based on our irrationality so that we can make life easier.
Denying our subjective irrationality is irrational. And the pursuit of happiness through materialism through science will lead to nihilism, which is the age we’re in today.

>>15290158
>Not believing Jewish fairy tales = atheist
You have been exposed as full blown retard of the highest order, be embarrassed

>>15290163
>Denying our subjective irrationality is irrational.
No, it is necessary, Ensign.

>>15290163
you're mixing up two different meanings of 'materialism'. also, as i say to every fool who denies the importance of material goods: please go live in a cave
to prove to us that material goods are not required for happiness.

>>15290171
>please go live in a cave to prove to us that material goods are not required for happiness

Deal.

>>15290045
Gammon, go watch your cuck porn on BBC poofter

>>15290174
off you go now.

>>15290039
>Staring at the finger and missing the moon
What does a person's religious beliefs have to do with a quote about not being a moron?

Sophistry

>>15290039
>You probably think you know more than the guy who spent his life stealing other people's work.
Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and assume I do.
Oh, and INB4:
>PROVE TO ME THAT HE ACTUALLY STOLE THEIR WORK IN A WAY I WON'T SIMPLY CHOOSE TO DENY!

>>15290174
>Food isn't a material.

>>15290191
You've been staring at your finger and missed all the shit particles from sticking it up yo ass

>>15290171
Same line of thinking still applies. Whether if its true or not, believing in materialism will lead to nihilistic void
And I’m not only talking about material goods. Worship of material goods and belief in pure logic has the same stem, the assumption that happiness is the end goal of human life. If happiness isn't the end goal of life, why would you use logic and reason to create technologies and societies to make your life comfortable.
I am not saying that necessities and luxury is not necessary. But I am suggesting that maybe we have a higher goal than pursuing happiness, and that starts with destruction of the mindless worship of logic and reason.
>>15290167
rationality is necessary, but we are irrational. that fact cannot be denied

>>15290197
Sophistry

>>15290157
He is using the word God in a Spinozan sense you blockhead

>>15290183
The cave is an allegory, my son...I ascended to prophethood in a hotel room. I fasted and meditated, stopped sleeping, studied...at times, literally, 24+ hours in a single go. Wake up and immediately go back at it. Fasted so hard it damaged my intestines so now if I fast for more than a couple days I shit blood, like...a LOT of blood.

I live a quasi-ascetic lifestyle now, minimal fasting for blood reasons.

Join me...find your true self...but that only happens when alone, when the mask you wear for others has no effect.

>>15290052

>>15290207
There is no Lemuria, Hyperoborea or Atlantis. There is no Thoth. The Universe is not electric. Tesla never fulfilled his grandiose delusions. Buddhism and Hinduism are all made up. Alan Watts was a hippie retard. You do not no more than every scientist working today.

>>15289686
The guy in that picture has blue skin from drinking colloidal silver, not because he is a Hindu god you retard

>>15290034
NTA but any belief someone is indoctrinated into and builds their worldview and reality around, it is always going to be more comfortable for them to defend rather than admit they got duped and weren't smart enough to see through it (especially for ego maniac midwits that fancy themselves as galaxy brains for knowing some undergrad level math)

>>15290227
>There is no Lemuria, Hyperoborea or Atlantis. There is no Thoth.
Hi. I am the living Avatar of Thoth. The inventer of Math and sheeeit. My home is in the past, hence why I am called a "Wander with no home."

>larp
Yes, you larp as educated and knowledgable. I do not for *I Am.*

>>15290024

>Religious thinking mainly occurs where there are gaps in our understanding, such as consciousness

You understand nothing other than your consciousness. That is the only thing "real" that you will ever know, at least on this plane of existence. Matter is a fiction invented by humans. You are the one filling in the gaps of the unknown. You buy into an entire fictional reality. You are filling the gap of the unknown with matter. That's fine, material studies are useful, but you should acknowledge the reality of it and stop pretending like your belief is an objective truth. All matter is fundamentally nothing physical. What we call "physical" is our perception.

>>15290227
>making claims you can't prove about things you don't understand

Sophistry

>>15290234
>I Am
ISIS? That you my love?

>>15290163

B
I
N
G
O

>>15290229
Sophistry

>>15289385
Your materialist fantasy exists where? Sorry but you don't even exist bro. How could I even debate you on this? I mean atoms can move around but there is no me or you to speak of. Your whole viewpoint is based on the existence of a self that your viewpoint says doesn't exist. Fuck off nihilist

>>15290240
Sssh...keep dunking on him.

>>15289686
The Latin "universum" predates the use of the word "verse" to refer to a song, it doesn't mean one song, what a buch of nonsense

>>15290246
Tables don't exist because atoms exist? Your brain has died

>>15290235
Bra inlet. By that logic the pagan gods of old used to be real and really responsible for natural phenomena because people really believed in them, but ceased to exist with change of beliefs and scientific advancement. And trans women are real women.

>>15290247
SHEEEEEEIT

>>15290249
>it doesn't mean one song
What is the root meaning of Uni then?

One song, one thought, single verse...idk man...you tell us.

>>15290257
>>15290247
>talking to himself
and he calls others schizos, lmao

>>15290260
>schizo calling everyone schizo
meta-schizo

>>15290171

No, he isn't mixing them up. There is nothing unhappy or happy about sitting in a cave. It simply exists as is. Any judgment you put on it is a fiction that YOU create. A platinum and gold mansion
with AC is fundamentally no different than a cave, from a material viewpoint, so there is no reason to be happy or sad about either. The only difference is your choice - to create your own meaning. When you go as deep as you can, a bar of solid gold is no different than a pile of shit. Meaning is a mental construction.

Thoughts exist - they are the only thing that I know are real. Thoughts are mental. Mental is not physical. There is no mechanism for the physical to generate or transmute into mental. The brain generates thoughts. The brain cannot create thoughts if it is physical. Ergo, the brain is not physical. Since the brain is the same as all other matter, no matter is physical. Ergo, all matter is fundamentally mental. What we perceive as physical is our fictional perception of these mentalities.

I welcome anyone here to disprove this. If you say "we don't know but materialism can explain it," then you are engaging in faith - materialism is your religion.

Also, if the brain can generate t

>>15290202
happiness and understanding are the only goals i care about.

>>15290254

They are as real as anything else you can imagine.

>>15290267
>No, he isn't mixing them up. There is nothing unhappy or happy about sitting in a cave. It simply exists as is. Any judgment you put on it is a fiction that YOU create. A platinum and gold mansion
>with AC is fundamentally no different than a cave, from a material viewpoint, so there is no reason to be happy or sad about either. The only difference is your choice - to create your own meaning. When you go as deep as you can, a bar of solid gold is no different than a pile of shit. Meaning is a mental construction.
shakyamuni?

>>15290254
>brainlet, by that logic you could take pills that are just sugar and they would cure your ailment which is physical just because you really believe in them that would stop working if you are told they are just sugar and stop believing in them
Yes, this is called the placebo effect

>>15290267
gold is definitely different from shit.

>>15290252
>A table can be defined
you actually don't know the first thing about reality

>>15290277
>placebo effect
^ Well documented scientisms btw

This retard schizo bodhi is having a full blown meltdown lmao.

>>15290288
>he is mirroring because he is incapable of forming his own thoughts, while calling people schizo again

>>15290280

That's where you're wrong. And that's your fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of reality. Correct that, and the doors of enlightenment will open to you.

If you want to explain how they are different, then please explain it to us. But don't abandon ship when pressed. Rigor is necessary for science. So we will press your claim. That shouldn't be a problem for you, though, because you believe you are correct. So please explain the material difference.

>>15290252

A table is, in a material sense, the exact same as any other matter. There is no difference. The "table" only exists as a fiction in your mind. See my post above >>15290294

If you believe there is something different about the matter that constitutes a table, please explain. But don't run away when pressed. We're here for scientific rigor.

>>15290299
The one thing that makes me think this might be real is that my sexual energy intensifies when I think about it, which is weird.

>>15290202
That's the conscious meaning you set for yourself and you are valid to do so. I would argue that pursuit of happiness and avoidance of pain are the two basic drives of cognitive organisms. But what humans or ravens, dolphins differ is metacognition, or a sense of self (idk about the animals for sure though, I'm not a dolphin). Through sense of self we have values and opinions and through those we judge and perceive accordingly. If one were to argue that humans are perfectly rational, I would say that a jellyfish is more rational than humans because they perceive the world without further judgement. They only perceive touch and not being touched, they do not make irrational judgements.
If I were to only believe in happiness, then I am no different from simple animals. Though we are animals, my sense of self doesn't accept that. Sense of self and our judgements is what propelled mankind, but both reverting to animalistic instincts and trying to ascend beyond your instinct through "reason and logic" are destructive and self-deceptive.
>>15290273
>>15290267
That's a part of my point. All wise men from all ages come to the conclusion that our perception of the world and the world is different thus we are living a lie, but their reactions have varied greatly. Its fascinating, like a mirror that once you look into gives you forbidden truths, and all those who looked into it changed in different ways

>>15290304
the price you pay for piercing the veil is not being able to show others what you see

>>15290304
I agree it is fascinating ...watching buffoons trip all overt themselves not being able to see what is right in front of their face. God is quite clever and quite devious in a sense, to hide the truth .... in our minds..... the last place most people will look for it :)

>>15290307
>the price you pay for piercing the veil is not being able to show others what you see

You can...but only once.

why the fuck are mods allowing this?

>>15290382
Because it is one of the only threads in this shithole discussing actual science ..... which is why you are confused and unable to contribute

>>15290382
Go back to r*ddit if you want to censor real discussions which go against the mainstream

>>15290394
>>15290403
>pushing kike philosophies from people with names like ((Steiner))

>against the mainstream

>>15290031
How does one investigate if people have souls? The answer is simple, you cannot, this nonsense cannot be tested, differentiated or falsified and is not science

>>15290412
Prove it can't be tested. Oh you can't, therefore your post and opinion are not scientific you buffoon

>>15290394
It's probably best to just bank on fading away, which is a thing even many idealists think can happen to you depending on how your soul desires it to. Honestly, what's waiting for you after this? You don't think there's a reason this thing atomized itself? It's probably fighting some hopeless war and is renewing itself into shells so it can pretend the problem isn't there

>>15290406
Still better than ribbit. Go back there if you love it so much faggot

>>15290418
>You don't think there's a reason this thing atomized itself?
I know there is ...karma. We are in bhu-mandala, midgard, purgatory to learn. We are either in pre-school or detention because we fucked up. We must learn to vibrate faster to leave this plane. What is the highest vibration?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI-GVJjmy9c

>>15290427
>didn't read anything i said

goddamnit, not bothering with this again

>>15290412
>How does one investigate if people have souls?
The study if the central nervous system and the electromagnetic charge/field of the being, in conjunction with the supportive field/charge of the rest of nature via the planet itself.

>"b-b-but I defined it as anti-science! You cant just redefine it!"
I did because that is science, not DOGMATIC DOCTRINE.

>"But the sun has ALWAYS revolved around the earth."
If you like your Geocentrism, keep it...but know your Age is over, mortal.

>>15290428
I read exactly what you said. I don't understand how you are confused. Sorry you didn't get the answer that you wanted but I only speak on things that I know or what I think based on the facts and evidence and I am always crystal clear which is which. If you want to challenge my conclusions based on the facts and evidence, first you have to get on my level and learn them. Then I will be more than happy to speak to you as a colleague rather than a student and we can debate into the wee hours of the night if you like

>>15290406
>cannot make an argument
>say its jewish
brain-let tier argument
For your sake, I’ll clarify some things for you. Philosophers and scientists from the scientific age were mostly jewish, and what I said coincided with them. But so did Bhudda or the greeks said what I have said. Are bhudda and greeks jewish now?
Maybe, just maybe, different people can come up with the same ideas because they had similar experience, the human experience
and inb4 this is not science. Science and philosophy is very related, they are both metaphysical ideas. But when science deviated from philosophy by focusing on maximizing human happiness, thats when the jewry comes in.
Id tell you what the jews really want you to do. comprehend nothing, do not hold values, chase money, create debt. All the things mainstream you enbody

>>15290436
>Id tell you what the jews really want you to do. comprehend nothing, do not hold values, chase money, create debt. All the things mainstream you enbody
big brain true, true here. Listen up to the sermon here plebs, this man is showing you the cave entrance while you can only focus on shadows

>>15290436
btw the Jews never innovate or come up with anything original. They only know how to plagiarize. Also I think that drooler is under the impression gnsoticism is Jewish? Gnosticism is and always has been Greek, hence why it is called Gnosticism ..... GREEK for knowledge and not some hebrew nonsense

>>15290394
>new age woo woo
>we wuz really science!!!1
lol, lmao even
You have /x/ right there, but obviously using that board wouldn't satisfy you because you wanna destroy science

>>15290472
Sophistry

>>15289385
This. Human beings have an insatiable need to feel special. They cannot accept that they are fundamentally the same stuff as the rest of the cosmos; they need this to stave off fears of entropy and death. This is an evolutionary byproduct in response to existential terror; recognizing it for what it is is a productive step in the right direction.

>>15290499
>I am smarter than all the greatest minds who ever lived and if you call me out for being a simpleton retard it is because YOU WANT TO FEEL SPECIAL REEEEEE
Projection, sophistry, midwittery, retardation.

>>15290499
I was gonna say "inb4 BUT HOW CAN YUO KNOOOOOOW" and lo and behold the schizo goes all pavlovian >>15290500

We should ban all these threads from this board. This board is supposed to be about mathematics and science not philosophy

>>15290504
Sophistry, kys drooler

>>15290505
>>15290504
>>15290499
>>15290382
samefag seething schizo, see pic rel>>15290263

>>15290507
Never do jenkem, kids

>>15290509
I always wondered, do you ever have a moment of clarity where you realize "man I really am batshit crazy?"

>>15290436

B
I
N
G
O

>>15290505

>d-dont challenge my dogma

We don't care about your dogma. We are here to explore the truth.

>>15290267
>>15290299
>>15290294

Notice how no one even attempted to respond to these. That tells you everything you need to know.

>>15290270

>>15290535
>you ARE happy!!
no.

>>15290540
Why? Because you choose it

>>15290544
^ that is your free will, the only free will you ave in the matrix .... how you choose to experience it
https://esotericawakening.com/is-free-will-an-illusion

>>15290523
>Notice how no one even attempted to respond to these.

I sure noooticed.

>>15290544
>muh free will xd
so, so low iq.

>>15290557
>retard screeching "RETARD!" at everyone
My favorite meme

>>15289686
>vortex math
This is just a bunch of nonsense, it's totally idiotic to think that this pattern is significant, the fact that we mostly use a base ten number system is completely arbitrary, most likely beacuase we have ten fingers
>sacred geometry
This is just attaching magical significance to aesthetically pleasing patterns, Jews, Hindus, Greeks and other pre-scientific religions have been making contradictory claims about this stuff forever
>Hyperborea, Lemuria, Atlantis
Never existed
>soul is conscious light proven by QM
That is not what any substantial theory of quantum mechanics proposes, even outlandish interpretations like many worlds, a massless photon cannot be conscious nor can any photons be found within the body that could make up a "soul"
>UNIverse(one song)
That is not the etymology of the word "universe"
>pineal gland is antennae
It is an endocrine gland with no magic properties, people get it removed all the time in a pinealectomy and do not lose connection with reality
>thermodynamics proves reincarnation
No it doesn't, it is not energy that is significant, it is information and organisation, when you die the various forms of in your body energy such as heat may survive, but the organisation of your body succumbs to entropy
>thermodynamics proves karma
That law deals with empirical forces such as momentum, mass, acceleration etc..., karma involves convoluted consequences for moral actions which are arbitrary and subjective
I could go on, this is such garbage that it boggles the mind. There's even stuff about astrology in there. Some moron has tried to combine every single religion with science, science fiction and fictional science.

>>15290563
>REEEEEEEEEE

>>15290500
You are going to die, there will be nothing afterwards. You are in denial

>>15290567
Sophistry

>>15290565
So no answer :)

>>15290563
>This is just attaching magical significance to aesthetically pleasing patterns
Everything you wrote is factually wrong.

STOP LYING ON THE INTERNET.

>>15290568

>>15290572
Pure schizophrenia, utter pareidolia

>>15290570
Post it in the comments of the page and I will be glad to expend the energy required to dunk on you there, but only for the entire world to see and there is a permanent record of it :)

>>15290576
>3 of 4 are pulled from scientific articles
YOU WILL NEVER BE A SCIENTIST OF ANY KIND.

DEAL WITH IT.

B^l

>>15290577
There is nothing you can say to refute the fact that people who get pinealectomies don't disconnect from reality, utterly retarded

>>15290585
Sophistry, you wont dont do it because you are a coward and only do your squealing like a retard in complete anonymity so it can't be traced back to you

>>15290585
You lack the conviction to stake your name and reputation on your ideas because you are a pseud coward. I namefag because I possess no such weakness or fear. I can back my words up with facts

>>15290591
Why the fuck would you go on a message board where the whole point is that it's anonymous and demand that people post on your gay website or namefag like you, if you can't answer a simple question about your claim that the pineal gland is an antennae then you are beyond reason

>>15290597
Sophistry

>>15290600
Why don't people who get pinealectomies lose connection with reality? If it was an antennae, I would expect that losing your pineal gland would be extremely significant, don't dodge the question by just responding with "SOPHISTRY!!!" like a bot

>yeah the universe is full of entropy and death and doesn't care about me and traditional religions are bullshit BUT there's still a happy place outside of it because I am really that special
This is your brain on idealism/dualism

>>15290606
>The sophist is claiming other people are dodging questions by pointing out their attempts to defect and dodge the questions they can't respond to with their sophistry

>>15290608
>SOPHISTRY! SOPHISTRY! SOPHISTREEE!!!
>am not dodging the argument at all!!!1

>>15290610
Sophistry, stop wasting posts in this thread if you aren't going to make any meaningful posts. There are countless other retards that will be more to post retarded shit in this thread besides you

>>15290608
>"the pineal gland is an antennae for reality"
>"wouldn't a pinealectomy disconnect you from reality?"
>"REEEE SOPHIST SOPHIST"

>>15290615
>antennae for reality
"Ahoy-ahoy, Tesla-kun speaking!"

>>15290622
Still waiting for them consciousness waves, hon. Go put your head in a Faraday cage and have someone check if you drop cold

>>15290449
oh cool, i didnt know that, thank you
>>15290472
you missed the point completely you absolute brainlet. Science being objective and empirical is good, I respect that, however treating science as a religion is destructive. Science is a tool, not your master.
But i guess all humans need to worship something, the need some meaning in their meaningless life since the prehistoric times. You've chosen your brand on a cult, thats good for you

>>15290631 cont
>>15290499
And that I agree. Although we do not know the full extent of how our brain works, the gist of it is our stream of consciousness is a sum of neuronal connections and the myelination of it. Brains are interconnected neurons, and we are the neuronal pattern. The way these neuron patterns change and remember has two ways: Habituation and Sensitization. Habituation is the decrease of efficiency of the Ca2+ channels in the postsynaptic neuron and sensitization is the vise versa. This process is done by the steps following: first the neurotransmitter travels across synaptic cleft to bind with the AMPA receptor which causes depolarization and that contributes to the excitatory postsynaptic potential. The essence of this is that with each depolarization, it drives out Mg2+, and there is a receptor named NMDA receptor which uptakes calcium in the postsynaptic terminal and the receptor will work well if there is no Mg2+ and if there is excitation. So with each subsequent excitation, the more Mg2+ is driven out, the more excitable NMDA receptor is, the more Ca2+ is pumped in. And these Ca2+ works as a second-messenger pathway to increase the release of retrograde paracrine which increases the release of neurotransmitters. After even more repeated excitations the neuronal network not only increases the excitability of NMDA, it grows a new axon to connect. I wont touch it here because it will be even more word jumble but if you want to know, let me know
Anyways, my point is, we aren't special. We and so many others arrived at the same conclusion, but is believing we are not special productive? If we’re just a pattern, and we aren't alive, why write poems? Why invent new things? Why anything? And that's exactly what the jews want you to believe. Believe in nothing and consume. Do not hold values and chase money.
>>15290505
I've proven you wrong with the above argument. Science are interconnected with philosophy.

>>15290622
Just because Tesla was a good electrical engineer early in life doesn't mean you should take his word on neuroscience, physics, physchology etc...

>>15290622
"What we call 'soul' or 'spirit,' is nothing more than the sum of the functionings of the body. When this functioning ceases, the 'soul' or the 'spirit' ceases likewise." - Nikola Tesla.

>>15290627
>Still waiting for them consciousness waves
You will NEVER be a scientist...because their all around you.

>Fish: Water? What water?!

https://youtu.be/ZmRaIQOlxTY

Come back when you've finished and we can talk about Environmental Genetics and Evolutionary Biology and how it is reciprocal to and for its enviroment.

t.YOUR DOCTOR

>>15290637
Youre an illiterate charlatan.

IM YOUR PROFESSOR. DOCTOR. PHYSICIAN. PHYSICIST. MATHEMATCIAN.

I AM YOUR ALL.

>>15290610
One person wrote an entire article after decades of research and put on a clinic in this thread and the other person just squealed like a retard and made zero meaningful posts. Which is which do you think? I am not your personal tutor shitstain. I do not answer to you. If you want to beg me to give you what you are seeking you are going to have to do a better job than that sophist.

>>15290652
You make this nonsense claim about the pineal gland and cannot back it up whatsoever. People get pinealectomies, tumors in the pineal gland and some are born without one. Yet they can still percieve reality.

>>15290634
>we aren't special. We and so many others arrived at the same conclusion, but is believing we are not special productive? If we’re just a pattern, and we aren't alive, why write poems? Why invent new things? Why anything?
The meaninglessness in the universe and in our own lives does not suggest that we should give up and retreat into a full apathetic stupor; rather, the realization that life is meaningless is profoundly psychologically and philosophically freeing, because it permits the individual to look inside himself and create his own meaning and self-identity. The material nature of the universe and by extension of ourselves should not imbue us with an indifference that renders us lethargic and paralyzed away from caring about anything, but rather an indifference that inspires us to create meaning and care for endeavors that we deem enjoyable and engaging. If nothing matters, then everything matters; if the material world and this life is all that you have, make the most of it.

>>15290657
you’re right, thats more beautifully put than what i wrote.
personally thats not how i view it but we see the same truth and as I’ve mentioned before people have different reactions to this truth.
To steer this discussion in the direction of OP’s post, i think this is the conclusion. Materialism is just another reaction to this unsheathing of the veil. For they have grown too attached to the truth of the universe they forget to look at the tinted glasses they wear.

>>15290652
No response to >>15290655
Btfo

>>15290685
probly having a schizo episode rn, he'll be back to yell SOPHESTREE!

>>15290705
>SOPHESTREE
lol...engineers...I can draw circles and shit too...

>>15290607
>>15290597
>>15290567
>>15290563

Hey, forget the esoteric stuff and pineal gland and Atlantis and whatever other weird stuff you guys are talking about. Address this: >>15290523

>>15290827
>Address this
No, he, and they, are posting irrelevent bullshit for idiots, psuedo logic "science".

ADDRESS THIS; >>15290433

>"But I want to argue with people my size!"

NO. RESEARCH AND LEARN.

...then you get to fight Giants!...but first research and learn, kiddo.

>>15290638
>>15290827
^
DEW IT. RESEARCH...AND FULFILL YOUR DESTINY.

>>15289706
How is this?

>>15290856
kys schizophrenic

>>15289925
>Correct me if I am wrong but It looks like there is only one side posting arguments and evidence in this thread. Me thinks you are an expert in the art of projection.
Side? I'm on nobody's side. I was, however, the only one who even attempted to discuss actual evidence and research. >>15289455 >>15289578

The evidence does not support anything but materialism, and the evidence also supports the notion anti-materialist views and beliefs stem from inability to calmly reason through one's thoughts or impulses. The only side that matters is reality, and you're not going to make reality agree to change itself to fit your beliefs instead.

That being said, "me thinks" it's pretty clear who is doing the projecting. You can't claim it's me, because I'm usually the one trying to encourage people to at least do the bare minimum of reading a few papers. Not that you probably care to reason out the fact you're the problem here, given what I already said about anti-materialist positions and likelihood of defects in reasoning.

>>15290871
Every day you refuse to do what you are told is another day wasted as the lazy, ignorant, shitbag self you are.

CHANGE OR DIE A FAILURE.

>>15289706
Your sensible post made me happy. Please have a (You)

>>15289706
Everything can be explained by the movement of atoms, subatomic particles, waves and fields, there is no need for superstition and religion. Materialism is not a religion, it merely negates the delusional religions of others,nor is it "dying" as most scientists today accept it. As our understanding advances, the gaps in our knowledge that lead to your baseless speculations and religions will recede

>>15290859
You forgot to include your pineal gland gsrbage

>>15289609

>>15291101

>>15289385
>A materialist follows logic and reason where it takes him, his conclusions may be cold or unpleasant, but he must acknowledge them regardless
Like what? Give me an example of a specific controversial claim that materialists make and the rigorous reasoning behind it. Most of the so-called materialist claims I've heard don't come with any hard reasoning whatsoever, but rather just emotional appeals.
>There is no emotional or "spiritual" impulse sated by materialism, whereas in opposing views this is not quite the case
This is absolutely not true. There are plenty of emotional and "spiritual" reasons to support materialism.
1. The emotion of feeling smarter and superior to regular people by letting go of what you view as superstitious thinking encourages a more materialistic and more anti-layman view of the world.
2. Nihilism. Frustration with moral judgements or low self-worth will drive one to deny morality and other commonly accepted metaphysical phenomena, a view which best fits the framework of materialism. Immoral people still want to view themselves as right in some sense, and denying morals altogether and embracing materialism gives them comfort.
3. Feelings of powerlessness and lack of success in life incentivizes people to shift blame from oneself and refuse to take responsibility. A materialist determinist worldview lets you do this much more easily, and makes it much easier to cope with one's failures in life and inaction.
4. The feeling of satisfaction you get from rebellion against your religious parents.
5. The desire for comfort in believing that hell/final judgement doesn't exist.

>>15291077
>three body problem stands in your way
Materialists can't even explain the what, nevermind the how and why.

>>15291196
The people who make the "you are actually motivated by emotions and not logic and here's why" are invariably the least self-aware and least objective people. When one is not capable of arguing their positions in cold logic, they choose to appeal to armchair-psychological explanations. Happens all the time.

>>15291204
If you are incapable of identifying the emotional drives in yourself, you are incompetent and very emotionally unaware, possibly even alexithymic or dissociated.

>>15289385
Anti-materialism led me to religion, not the other way around.

>>15289486
The only deluded one here is you. So wrapped up in your own ego you imagine yourself able to ignore your own emotions and excuse any crimes or harm you cause as "logical".
You get no excuse. All harm caused by you and your desires and your beliefs is your own fault. You want to treat the world as cold and unfeeling so that you don't have to reckon with your own actions - although more likely it's cope for your inaction. You come across as a sentient worm desperate for approval begging for others to accept your laziness as simply a product of natural law as there's simply nothing you can do for there is only the material and you'll abide slavery and suffering so long as you can trick yourself into believing it's merely the way of things.

>>15291221
Sounds about right. But keep in mind, that is the majority of people.

>>15291204
I know the emotions I face. You clearly do not. You cannot correct what you refuse to acknowledge.

>>15291247
>appeal to morality
>appeal to "free will"
Proving the point there

>>15291257
What makes you think I do not know the emotions that I face?

>>15289544
It is obvious materialism is driven by a superiority complex (to be above the plebs) and ego mania. Materialist refuse to accept that they must submit to a will greater than their own. Of course both of these are the same thing. The desire to crown themselves king

>>15291247
ouch, it do be like that

>>15291274
Materialists are determinists and correctly believe that we cease to be upon death so you are full of shit. Your mystical idealist shit is nothing more than what religions of the past thousands of years have been doing but with sciencey sounding words thrown there (Deepak Chopra types have turned that into their careers)

>>15291289
>correctly believe
>it came to me in dream .....
>It is correct but I assert it is!
>ego mania
>crown themselves king
Yep, I nailed that one eh?

>>15291289
>correctly believe
>it came to me in a dream .....
>It is correct because I assert it is! (though I have zero proof or supporting evidence)
>ego mania
>crown themselves king
Yep, I nailed that one eh?

>>15291289
there are materialists who reject determinism. aka dumbasses

>>15291289
You tipped your hand. You believe in both a wasteful universe and an abyss to consume it. Hardly even materialism. Outright retards just shouldn't even speak.

>>15289385
>Are anti-materialist claims about science motivated by emotions instead of reason?
Read Husserl's Logical Investigations and his Formal and Transcendental Logic. Phenomenology proves transcendental idealism. You are however correct that a complete lack of epistemological commitment characterise the vast majority of idealists.

>>15291311
If they are dumbasses how do separate them them from any other materialist?

>>15289433
the belief that all things ultimately stem from matter.

>>15291924
kek based

>>15291077
Seconded.

>>15289385
>>15289390
what logic? the one education teaches... oh wait.

>>15290638
dr john c lilly is that you? have you become the dolphin?

>>15289385
Materialists are fucking pathetic

>>15292055
Kek, more projection. The idealist schizo gang is the insecure one since they spam these threads every fucking day and have no arguments other than deflecting, calling everyone "mentally ill", yelling SOPHISTREE! and making up conspiracies (still 2 more weeks until materialism is dead and buried, right?)

>>15289385
Materialist chads keep winning regardless of what people on 4chan say. Try going to 1970s China and seeing how long you last before you get ostracized by spreading your crap.

>>15293129
This. Look at the current idealist offensive going on here right now. No one sane is buying their ideas so they're going all out.

>>15293129
critical support to china for executing pathetic pseudo intellectual idealists like the ones in this thread. you can't win with these people.

>>15293129
Name one advancement in science since WWII? If this is what winning looks like I would hate to see losing

>>15292043

thx for the upvote, have some gold

>>15290635
or yours