/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15244460
If you're so pro genocide, why don't you kill yourself, worthless trash?

>>15244460
scientifically speaking, it would be better to have total war
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LSZCxzmhico

>>15244460
>Scientifically speaking why is the public so objectionable to concepts such as genocide and eugenics
Who says they are?
Planned Parenthood is a multi-billion dollar corporation.

>>15244466
Why are you so filled with spite and contempt?

>>15244460
Hypothesis: the only purpose of this thread was to lump genocide and eugenics together to associate eugenics with genocide and with retarded scum like you.

>>15244460
if we cull 99.9% of the population, 80 million still remain
more than enough

>>15244460
>Scientifically speaking why is the public so objectionable to concepts such as genocide and eugenics despite overwhelming evidence in favor of their benefits?
By who and from whose perspective?

>>15244481
not quite, a disease could easily rip through and end them too. which I would be extremely favorable to seeing those asshole elitists not survive from my vantage point in heaven.

The point is: THEY need US.

Because we know that the government would use it to kill all independent thinkers and maybe most smart people too (outside of several especially servile scientist clans living on a science farm).

>>15244460
Insofar as eugenics because it goes against the current religion. Genocide probably because it's bad

>>15244460
Because anyone who believes genocide or eugenics is rational is an idiot who does not understand that nature does not decide on mutations on some simple basis like, "oh, look: blue eyes and blonde hair".

The "Aryan" population that the Nazis wanted--and I suppose still want--would very likely be wiped out with a single catastrophic event: anything from a pandemic, war, et cetera.

Some examples:

Similarly, for lighter-skinned individuals, (say Fitzpatrick I-III), the rate of cancer increases with a decrease in skin pigmentation.
Continuing further, while blue eyes are some end-all-be-all to being an "Aryan", they also carry the highest likelihood of ocular maladies up to and including retinal damage (think cones and rod cells).
And finally, to stay succinct but thorough: While the current culture prefers tall males, it turns out they have less adaptive fitness under circumstances such as war and famine; the US Military's data on success for SEAL selection, tends to suggest that taller is worse.

The level of overconfident retardation is truly at its peak these days.

>>15244501
Not really. That's why wages have flat lines for almost half a century. The elite don't really need to workers except as consoomers. Government debt for gibs props up consumption though.

With AI and better and better automation then will need to masses less and less. Workers can be replaced. There are billions of third worlders who will do any job for less and are able to do plenty of jobs. This is why today you bear all the risk and costs of training, getting a degree and hoping it is relevant when you get out, doing internship so, and employers get to pick.

With the advent of autonomous artillery and drones they won't even need the masses to fight wars later this century. A small elite who can pay some well trained defense contractors and can buy plenty of autonomous hardware will be able to wipe the floor with huge numbers of the angry masses trying to play insurgent.

Black unemployment is just the canary in the coal mine. People aren't opressing them to get their labor, they're just irrelevant.

>>15244460
Eugenics is fine when it's done on a voluntary basis, e.g. setting up a system where we subsidize people we want to have kids, and offering money to people we don't in exchange of getting sterilized. Welfare contingent on sterilization.
Genocide is literal nigger behavior.

>>15244460
Seeing webms of dead niggers got some people really happy lately, so I think with the right amount of propaganda anyone can support it

>>15244481
That is 1%, not 0.1%.
In any case sterilization of low IQ individuals is the way to go. I.E: by using toxins disguised as a vaccine for cold, or some other bullshit only fucking idiots would believe they need.

>>15244839

the only sane take in this thread

>>15244839
based

>>15244460
A single genocide is not enough no matter how big it is. We need permanent genocide. As in daily genocide.

Because its not ethical. And we have a lot to benefit from testing new medications, new approaches and perspectives on the sick and unhealthy.

>>15244532
>Genocide probably because it's bad
Many of our societal and existential problems wouldn't exist if our ancestors had really committed the genocides they are blamed of.

>>15244839
>Genocide is literal nigger behavior.
Seems to be serving them well. At this rate, whites will go extinct in the next century or so. Asians might well follow soon after.

>>15244532
>If you find similarities between their complaints and yours, you might find similarities in who is causing the problems
>And then you would try to solve the problem in the same way the nazis did. I mean, didn't. I mean, we'd love to. But the people who were just like us in the same situation didn't.
Pull the other one

>>15244460
implying Hitler's "genocide" isn't the same if not worse than "american prisons"
get real

>>15246018
The Germans certainly persecuted the Jews and were doing mass deportations. Even if you believe the mythos that came later it is not contested that deportation was the original plan. For example see the Madagascar plan or Haavara agreement.

>>15246072
Why do white nationalists never just move somewhere else? Why do they always have to force others away?

>>15246024
http://zapisyterroru.pl/dlibra/publication/3783/edition/3764/content?navq=aHR0cDovL3phcGlzeXRlcnJvcnUucGwvZGxpYnJhL3Jlc3VsdHM_cT10YXViZXImYWN0aW9uPVNpbXBsZVNlYXJjaEFjdGlvbiZtZGlyaWRzPSZ0eXBlPS02JnN0YXJ0c3RyPV9hbGwmcD0w&navref=Mjg0NjsyODI3IDM3ODM7Mzc2NCAxMjQxOzEyMjYgMzQwMDszMzgxIDQwNjQ7NDA0MSAzNTk4OzM1NzkgMzk0NzszOTI3IDMzODU7MzM2NiAzNjk3OzM2NzggNDAwNjszOTg2IDM3NzI7Mzc1MyAzNjEzOzM1OTQgMzY4MjszNjYzIDM1ODQ7MzU2NSAzNjQxOzM2MjIgMzc4MjszNzYzIDEyNTA7MTIzNQ

I have not heard similar stories about american prisons.

I have shared the same link a few weeks ago. It is quite informative about the german process engineering.

Get real.

>>15246154
In the case of Europe, because that is their homeland; where their people and their genetics came to be. Or in the case of America/Canada/Australia/New-Zealand, the countries their ancestors built.

>>15246247
Who the fuck cares? Do it again, if you're so great.

>>15246154
>why do whites just not keep fleeing
Where the fuck are we to flee anymore? My Nordic home country is filled with non-whites. There is nowhere to flee. Either we gas malevolent mutants like you and fight for survival or we go extinct.

>>15246250
You're not even human.

>>15246257
Dude just rule over the lesser races

>>15246218
>eye witness accounts
Who could ever forget the fire pits of children burning alive in Auschwitz, the electric floors of Treblinka, the steam chambers, the brain bashing machine, the mini-nukes used for execution, the cage with a bear and an eagle in Buchenwald, or the testimonies, including "confessions" by the literal commanders of the camp of gassings at Buchenwald. Though regrettably the modern day nazi academia is full of deniers as they deny all of this, which was proved using the [math] \text{exact} [/math] type of evidence as was used to prove the remainder of the genocide operation and death showers.

>>15246254
>>15246257
Whiter than you lel

This is why I can never take you fucks seriously. Clearly my membership of the master race is entirely contingent on whether or not I keep agreeing with you. Anything else is just for show. How the fuck do you want to practice identity politics when my immutable identity is entirely subservient to your petty whims?

>>15246271
You don't take people seriously because it'd hurt your ego to lose every single argument. As it is, you can go "I was merely pretending trolololol".

Here you are rationalising genocide by telling whites to just fuck off to Antarctica or wherever and telling them not to care about any of it. As I said, you're not a human. You're a demon, and you need to be gassed. There really is no reason to keep malevolent mutants such as yourself around.

>>15246278
Anon, I do take myself seriously, which is why I cannot take your buffoonery seriously in the slightest. Do I seriously need to say, on a board ostensibly dedicated to science, that I am not a demon? Of course not, I'll just let little Adolfchen play make-belief.

>>15246267
No one here has said anything about rule. But just being left alone in peace. Non-whites all over the world are the beneficiaries of the overwhelming contributions of the white race to every aspect of science, technology, mathematics, engineering, medicine etc, which easily amounts to more than all-nonwhites combined times 20. Without Europeans, everyone else would still be living in their shitty mudhuts and pre-medival times with 50% child mortality.
Yet they demand more, they must also [math] \textbf{live} [/math] among Europeans too. Take over their homelands. Oh, and in those homelands they need special privileges. They need hate speech laws, affirmative action, equal representation in media etc.
It's maddening.
For you to assume that you can separate the modern world, from the people who made it, is baffling.

>>15246270
Nazis were socialists and drug abusers, some weird evil shit is to be expected.

>>15246308
"Socialist", but not in the sense it is understood today. Complete opposite really.

>>15246294
>But just being left alone in peace
Dude just be alone in peace

>>15244460
ohhh geee wizzz i wonder why.

I miss him so much bros, and we need him now more than ever.
>>15244460
>genocide
attempt to slander his name.

>>15246293
>I am not a demon
If it looks like a demon and spouts vitriol like a demon, it is a demon.

>>15246380
Hmhm, and what "vitriol" would that be? Perhaps you ought to take a little look in the mirror.

Lmao @ you thinking you're actually capable of winning any argument, let alone "every single one"

>>15246393
Not who you're responding to. but you haven't actually argued, and so you seeked refuge in something as silly as
>ha I am not literally a biblical demon stupid

>>15246395
No, I did make an argument, and then he sought refuge in "ha ha you are a literal biblical demon" and now he feels like he doesn't have to answer anything I said except to reiterate that I am, in fact, a demon. It's all very scientific.

>>15246401
Telling white people to stop caring that they're being invaded and -- like the anon said -- "fuck off to antartica is not an argument.

>>15246406
"Being invaded" is hyperbolic emotional language. Furthermore, the argument that white people deserve to have "white homelands" but ALSO every place they colonised is obviously rubbish. Obviously if people are entitled to their homelands, you don't get to keep your colonies, and if you can just go and make a new homeland anywhere, there's no reason you have to stick to your homeland, if you dislike it there so much. If you're so good at building civilisation, go on, do it again. Why do other people always have to move for your convenience? You're the one who doesn't want to live in one country with them, so move.

Anyway, I'd left all that behind the moment they started calling me an inhuman malevolent mutant demon who ought to be gassed (in a thread about how nazis never wanted to gas anyone, no less), which kind of spurred a different argument, that is, how the fuck is my lily-white ass suddenly exempt from whiteness based on a difference of opinion about something entirely unrelated? This is why whiteness doesn't fucking mean anything and why it'll always be a fragile alliance at best. But of course, none of that registered with any of you because you're too busy shouting at demons on the science board.

>>15246414
>how the fuck is my lily-white ass suddenly exempt from whiteness based on a difference of opinion about something entirely unrelated?
Because a traitor is worse than an enemy.

>>15246393
My first message in this thread: >>15246254
Your reply to it: "Whiter than you lel": >>15246271

I'm sure you actually believe in your head that you really made some arguments and that me calling you a demon afterwards is unreasonable. And yes, I would literally win every single argument against you. It's really quite easy to argue against genocidal demons. My IQ wouldn't even have to be twice that of yours.

>>15246421
So you're not a white nationalist at all, then. You're a white nationalist nationalist.
>>15246424
Not just in my head, but I suppose reading more than a single line at a time hurts yours?

Calling someone a demon is literally always unreasonable, hth
>I would literally win every single argument against you
This is hubris
>It's really quite easy to argue against genocidal demons
Only one of us has expressed a desire to categorically gas the other
>My IQ wouldn't even have to be twice that of yours.
Is that your usual condition for being able to beat someone in an argument? You must be working on the extreme lower end of the IQ scale then.

>>15246414
>how the fuck is my lily-white ass suddenly exempt from whiteness
I never called your Jewish ass non-white. I merely pointed out that you're a demon for telling whites to flee even though the only place where we could go at this point is indeed Antarctica.

>>15246430
I'm also not black if you want to call me black, next. Or Asian, that's another thing I'm not.
>I merely pointed out that you're a demon
I'm going to point out that you're a psychotic fool.

>>15246430
So, Jews are white. Are they, then, by definition, welcome in your white nationalist paradise (provided, of course, that they do not argue that you ought to go to Antarctica)?

>>15246414
>"Being invaded" is hyperbolic emotional language
Once again semantics.
Call it whatever you want, invasion, replacement etc.
> the argument that white people deserve to have "white homelands" but ALSO every place they colonised is obviously rubbish.
There is nuance here. White people built those countries, and that is largely why they are/(were) so great. If you want to make the argument that all white people return to Europe and let those countries descend into dysfunctional shit holes (see: any country outside of those run by East Asians, the only other highly capable race, be it Haiti, South Africa etc.) and generally non-whites leave Europe, then that is a case to be made.
>Why do other people always have to move for your convenience?
Because in that case they are in foreign lands they don't belong. It is a one way street of immigration from the rest of the world to the West. Eventually, as the demographics and genetics of Europe shifts too much, so too will it's structure and society, which will then come to reflect the underlying non-white genetics (i.e. violence, filth, low intelligence etc.). You're telling white people to be okay with their literal ethnic replacement (call it genocide, invasion -- I don't care).
>how the fuck is my lily-white ass suddenly exempt from whiteness based on a difference of opinion about something entirely unrelated?
White criminals still get sent to prison. In your case you seem to welcome the destruction of the people that made your country, and subsequently the country itself). In many's eyes that might as well be "treason". Though I simply consider you a victim of modern propaganda.
>>15246435
Jews do not genetically cluster with Europeans. They are somewhere in between Arabs and Southern Euros.

>>15246435
Jews are white
Malevolent mutants are white
Demons are white
I ask you, what's so special or good about being white?

>>15246429
>I suppose reading more than a single line at a time hurts yours?
At this point, I doubt you have posted a single line worth reading in your entire life. The ones following your snarky bullshit there certainly do not qualify.
>Only one of us has expressed a desire to categorically gas the other
I only want to erase your existence. You want to remove my whole race. Your low IQ is showing again.
>Is that your usual condition for being able to beat someone in an argument?
It's something that makes it trivial.
>You must be working on the extreme lower end of the IQ scale then.
As I said, it's twice that of yours.

>>15246435
Jews have their own country. I wish I had one too. Unfortunately, as long as demons like you are allowed to run free, that'll remain a just dream.
>Are they, then, by definition, welcome in your white nationalist paradise
One very annoying problem with talking to NPCs like you is that you think that everyone else is an NPC too. If you accidentally make an argument instead of spouting snarky vitriol, it looks like this. You're arguing against someone else entirely. I want to have a nation state. Something that my people had merely decades ago. We had plenty of white nation states in the past.

>>15244538
>the nazis all wanted everybody to be blonde haired and blue eyed
>but Hitler wasn't
>what a bunch of idiots
maybe mass cognitive dissonance, or maybe the aryan shit was overblown

>>15246443
What's so special and good about being you?

>>15246449
It's the latter. There was propaganda that highlighted the nordic characteristics of Germans but there was also propaganda of handsome brown haired men. People overblow specific elements of their alleged racial purity campaigns so they don't have to confront the fact that Nazi society was actually fairly tolerant of other races, even Jews, if they had put their lives on the line to defend Germany in WWI or were committed to the nation's success.

>>15246442
>Once again semantics.
What do you mean "once again"
>Call it whatever you want, invasion, replacement etc.
How about "a tiny minority living among you"
>White people built those countries, and that is largely why they are/(were) so great.
So do it again.
> If you want to make the argument that all white people return to Europe and let those countries descend into dysfunctional shit holes (see: any country outside of those run by East Asians, the only other highly capable race, be it Haiti, South Africa etc.) and generally non-whites leave Europe, then that is a case to be made.
It would be kinda funny to see the USA suddenly being run by the natives whilst you are reduced to a refugee in a country that doesn't actually want you.
>Because in that case they are in foreign lands they don't belong. It is a one way street of immigration from the rest of the world to the West.
If you think it's unfair, you could always immigrate somewhere else. Could only improve things, right? Sure they're glad to have you.
>as the demographics and genetics of Europe shifts too much, so too will it's structure and society, which will then come to reflect the underlying non-white genetics (i.e. violence, filth, low intelligence etc.)
This is pure pseudoscience. If our genetics predisposed us to a certain society then why am I in such disagreement with you about society? Maybe you're not as white as you think. You were pretty quick to threaten violence.
>Jews do not genetically cluster with Europeans.
Good for them. Could you confer with your fellow white nationalist and agree whether or not Jews are white before you go around calling people Jews?

>>15246453
Well, I'm white, so you tell me.

>>15246457
Looks like you can't justify your existence, then.

>>15246455
>If our genetics predisposed us to a certain society then why am I in such disagreement with you about society?
There have been some quite accurate guesses in this thread.

>>15246449
>the nazis all wanted everybody to be blonde haired and blue eyed
I still don't know where this shit came from. Hitler never said anything remotely approaching this. Probably some minor government official.
In fact, various sub-groups within the German race was studied and documented (e.g. Bavarians/Austrians vs Northern Germans), and Hitler himself disapproved of this science as he felt it did not serve to promote national unity.

>>15246460
Looks like you can't justify the existence of any white person. You know, maybe that whole white genocide thing isn't actually a bad idea. According to you.
>>15246463
None so far that I've seen. Remember: I'm the whitest person in this thread. And correspondingly, the least predisposed to violence, as we've clearly noticed. And I'm surrounded by apish brutes. You can't even seem to make accurate guesses as to your own murky admixtures. One might even say you're... full of shit.

>>15246455
>What do you mean "once again"
Not with me, but you have spent some time now mildly fixated on a "demon" comment.
>How about "a tiny minority living among you"
It is not tiny anymore, and it is increasing massively. America was 80-90% white not 2 generations ago. Today, the youth is under 50% white. That is where Europe -- the HOMELANDS of Europeans -- is headed towards; there is no more "white flight" possible after this as in the US.
>So do it again.
Where?
>It would be kinda funny to see the USA suddenly being run by the natives whilst you are reduced to a refugee in a country that doesn't actually want you.
nothing of value
>If you think it's unfair, you could always immigrate somewhere else. Could only improve things, right? Sure they're glad to have you.
nothing of value. People don't migrate out of the west because outside of Japan and the like, they are shitholes.
>This is pure pseudoscience. If our genetics predisposed us to a certain society then why am I in such disagreement with you about society? Maybe you're not as white as you think.
Do you understand how normal distributions work? How traits vary betwen populations? How important this is? An average American black with 20% euro admixture has an IQ of about 85 relative to one standardized to whites (e..g whites IQ = 100). The average person of neither race is smart, in the black case they are pretty dumb, but still within "normal" range. However for whites highly gifted people -- say IQ of 140 -- are about 1 in a 100. For blacks you are approaching 1 in 30,000-100,000.
>Good for them. Could you confer with your fellow white nationalist and agree whether or not Jews are white before you go around calling people Jews?
I am not arguing him.
>You were pretty quick to threaten violence.
I did not threaten violence. Except for my deportation of jews original comment, if you consider that violence (though of course Israel has no qualms about doing that itself to blacks)..

>>15246473
>Looks like you can't justify the existence of any white person
You already painted yourself to a corner. Any argument you use to justify your existence, I can use to justify the existence of my people. I also win the argument if you can't justify your existence, since then it's just fine to kill you and stop asking people to do anything as abhorrent as justifying their existence.

>>15244481
Yeah. We should especially focus on getter rid of the retards who don’t know the difference between 1% and 0.1%

>>15246294
> from the people who made it
Those people are dead.

>>15246491
>Those people are dead.
Most of them are still alive, and their children and grandchildren are still making the world work.

>>15246475
>you have spent some time now mildly fixated on a "demon" comment.
That's not semantics, dear boy. Although me pointing that out certainly is.
>America was 80-90% white not 2 generations ago. Today, the youth is under 50% white.
Ah yeah, that of course has to do with another quirk of "whiteness" - partially white is counted as non-white. Unscientific white supremacist nonsense. You never hear them talking about "uplifting" minorities through miscegenation.
>That is where Europe -- the HOMELANDS of Europeans -- is headed towards
Homelands are a social construct.
>Where?
I dunno, pool your money and pick a spot
>People don't migrate out of the west because outside of Japan and the like, they are shitholes.
Where are the proud civilisation-builders of yesteryear? Weren't they all too happy to go to all these countries and "build them up"? Weren't you bragging about that?
>Do you understand how normal distributions work?
Do you understand that IQ is largely bullshit?
>Except for my deportation of jews original comment, if you consider that violence
I do, yes.

>>15246476
>Any argument you use to justify your existence, I can use to justify the existence of my people.
Not really, no. Any argument you can think of to justify the existence of white people would, of course, justify my existence, but the inverse is not therefore true.
>I also win the argument if you can't justify your existence, since then it's just fine to kill you
Fascism really is a clownish ideology, isn't it? Just going about demanding people justify their existence to them in order to continue to live? You're an active detriment to human civilisation and by virtue of that alone my existence is infinitely more justified than yours.
>stop asking people to do anything as abhorrent as justifying their existence.
Pure hypocrisy of course, but then again, hypocrisy is a fascist virtue

>>15246495
Wow.

>>15246502
Thank you for your commentary, Mr. Alinsky.

>>15246502
Either justify your existence or die. If you justify your existence, I'll use the same argument to justify the existence of my people. If you die, we'll stop asking people to justify their existence, since only a malevolent mutant demon like yourself, now dead, plays such purely evil games. Simple as.

I'm going to bed now. Please do put some thought into killing yourself.

>>15246502
>hypocrisy is a fascist virtue
what does that even mean? Sounds like empty rhetoric

>>15246504
I regret to inform you I have not one drop of Jewish blood in me, or in the words of J.R.R. Tolkien, "I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people". You will, of course, simply ignore and deny this fact, because it's inconvenient to your counter-factual, unscientific worldview. Which is exactly the concern I raised earlier about white nationalist ideologies. They don't actually care if people are white or not. They care about lockstep agreement with a totalitarian ideology. You'd rather see my pure Aryan genes wiped off the face of the Earth than allow a dissenting voice to persist on it. Memes > genes. Your ideology is self-contradicting and self-defeating.

>>15246515
>If you die, we'll stop asking people to justify their existence, since only a malevolent mutant demon like yourself, now dead, plays such purely evil games.
lol, classic. The cognitive dissonance is off the charts here.
>>15246525
Look above you.

>>15246532
>You'd rather see my pure Aryan genes wiped off the face of the Earth than allow a dissenting voice to persist on it.
This is one of the most mentally sick posts I've ever read on 4chan, and I browse /g/.

>>15246495
>Ah yeah, that of course has to do with another quirk of "whiteness" - partially white is counted as non-white. Unscientific white supremacist nonsense.
No this is not some nebulous concept. You and everyone else knows what is referred to when one speaks of "white". The continental population of Europe which forms a genetic cluster.
>You never hear them talking about "uplifting" minorities through miscegenation.
Generally speaking white genetics does "uplift" minorities. e.g. pic rel. This also applies to, say, Haiti. But by the same token it is generally harmful to whites, as other races are generally inferior.
>Homelands are a social construct.
Kek. I don't even know where to begin. People like you wish to deconstruct everything.
>Where are the proud civilisation-builders of yesteryear? Weren't they all too happy to go to all these countries and "build them up"? Weren't you bragging about that?
So you're pro-colonization now?
>Do you understand that IQ is largely bullshit?
Do explain how. It has by far the best predictive power out of anything else to ever come out of psychometrics. From academic performance, to job performance, subjective perception of intelligence, etc.

>>15246532
You are the most revolting poster I've ever seen on /sci/. I don't understand how people find the energy to sincerely respond to you.

>>15246544
high IQ autistics are compelled to respond to posts by their mental disorder even if they're by obvious trolls.

>>15246540
I'm not just the whitest but also the sanest person in this thread, I regret to inform you.
>>15246541
>No this is not some nebulous concept. You and everyone else knows what is referred to when one speaks of "white". The continental population of Europe which forms a genetic cluster.
No, this is a rhetorical sleight of hand you're pulling. By this definition, America's youth wouldn't anywhere near "under 50% white". Those genes aren't going anywhere. They persist just fine in the offspring of parents of mixed race.
>I don't even know where to begin. People like you wish to deconstruct everything.
Yet aren't you proud of the new "homelands" white people allegedly already built? Why couldn't that be done again?
>you're pro-colonization now?
Couldn't you just be a contributing member of society instead of having to violently overthrow people?
>Do explain how.
It's highly influenced by environment, and thus by systemic racism.

>>15246544
Perhaps the complete and earnest sincerity of my posts shines through so brightly that it sparks the last ounce of good faith that these nazis can muster from deep beneath the calcified layers of thought-terminating clichés.

>>15246570
How come you got trounced by at least three different nazis?

>>15246565
>I'm not just the whitest but also the sanest person in this thread, I regret to inform you.
A very stable genius I'm sure.

>>15246565
>No, this is a rhetorical sleight of hand you're pulling. By this definition, America's youth wouldn't anywhere near "under 50% white". Those genes aren't going anywhere. They persist just fine in the offspring of parents of mixed race.
No, as those "mixed race" individuals do not cluster with whites. They are easily genetically identifiable and distinct. The whites genes have been diluted (in general). Or go ahead and put some sewage in wine and pretend it's still wine.
But I will be more patient. Race is analogous to subspecies in animals. They differ in everything from basic physical attributes (size, shape, proportions, color, muscle composition) to brain size, structure, and morphology, and importantly in their distributions (it is you making the remarkable claim that this equates to identical functionality). This manifests as different behaviors and tendencies (for example, African Lions differ from Asiatic Lions behaviorally, the former being more social). Putting thousands such individuals creates a chaotic system -- one highly sensitive to initial conditions; a 105 IQ society (Japan), given enough time, is highly distinct from an 85 IQ society (Mexico), which is vastly distinct from a 70 IQ society (pick your favorite sub-saharan African country). There is of course many more aspects other than intelligence, such as creativity, propensity to violence, conscientiousness etc.
This is the practical aspect of why race -- and more generally genetics -- is important.
>Yet aren't you proud of the new "homelands" white people allegedly already built? Why couldn't that be done again?
Where? Antarctica?
>Couldn't you just be a contributing member of society instead of having to violently overthrow people?
I am not violently overthrowing anybody.
>It's highly influenced by environment, and thus by systemic racism.
Now I know you're joking, or at least highly ignorant. We can obviously control for environment, as you are partially correct.

>>15246586
Well, I reckon it's because nazis don't put any stock in intellectual debate but rather default to dehumanising the opposition so they can claim anything they say is inherently worthless and then proceed to kill them. If you count that as a victory, then sure. Of course, seeing how this is the internet and they are in no position to actually kill me, all it is for now is three nazis coping poorly with being out-debated.

If there's a mass shooting somewhere tomorrow I'm sorry.
>>15246596
Coming from you lot I suppose that might be a genuine compliment?

>>15246608
>If there's a mass shooting somewhere tomorrow I'm sorry.
You shouldn't admit to the desire to commit crimes on the internet.

>>15246613
Actually you should. Makes things easier.

>>15246607
>as those "mixed race" individuals do not cluster with whites
Well then what's the point of a "white" homeland in America, again? I'm seriously not buying it - you can't tell someone's genes at a glance. And here people are pretending they can do it through shitposts. It's all make-believe. A comforting pretense. You're talking about two different things and pretending they're the same.
>Where? Antarctica?
Any of those places you're not violently overthrowing where you would surely be considered an asset. I've all but spelled it out for you about thrice now.

>>15246622
Makes what easier? To get me banned on false pretenses, seeing how you can't best me in an argument?

>>15246629
I'm not the guy you were talking to. Just saying it makes it easier for the government to keep a watch on potential random violence

>>15246607
>Now I know you're joking, or at least highly ignorant.
They always ruin it by pushing too hard. It's hard to find the sweet spot between an absolutely abhorrent post and an obvious troll, I guess.

>>15246623
>Well then what's the point of a "white" homeland in America, again?
What are you talking about? I already addressed the America and colonization point here>>15246442
>I'm seriously not buying it - you can't tell someone's genes at a glance.
Yes you can to an extent (same way I can tell a polar bear when I see one). Hence why self-identified race aligns 99% of the time with k-cluster analysis. Of course there is only so much one can tell and infer from visuals alone.
>Any of those places you're not violently overthrowing where you would surely be considered an asset. I've all but spelled it out for you about thrice now.
I am just going to ignore this as it is obviously a troll and not leading anywhere.

>>15246631
Well, they certainly should be monitoring this thread, yes, because there are more than a few unhinged sociopaths here with fragile egos who picked a fight they couldn't win and there's no telling how they'll respond. But likely they'll just pull the classic fascist move of declaring victory anyway.

>>15246629
>seeing how you can't best me in an argument?
You're awfully confident for someone who just admitted to getting completely btfo'd by three nazis.

>>15246642
>I already addressed the America and colonization point here
Not really, no. My point is, Americans aren't nearly as "white" as they seem to think and plenty have some non-white ancestry in them. If it's allegedly so easy to tell them apart, then either your clustering is off, or your visual categorisation.
>I am just going to ignore this as it is obviously a troll and not leading anywhere.
Shame, that was probably the most fruitful avenue of discussion.

>>15246649
I only said that by the pathetic nazi standards of giving up and declaring victory, they had indeed claimed victory. But you'd likewise have to be a pathetic nazi unable to genuinely best people in order to count that.

>>15246664
You really are just like Trump like >>15246596 said lol. What a narcissist.

>>15246664
>everyone I lose an argument to is a pathetic nazi
Try to win an argument next time. Nobody likes sore losers.

>>15246660
What's the point of discussing America? Regardless the median European-American is 100% European. The average is more akin to 99%. They cluster with Europeans, ergo, they're white. Of course there have a huge non-white population (see: Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis etc.) as well.
But once again, I have already left the topic of America behind.
I have also addressed practically every single one of your points. You mainly deflect and ignore.

White people literally invite brown people to come live with them, they are not being invaded. White people controls the border crossings and give work visas and/or pretends not to notice obvious foreigners walking in their midst.
It isnt like foreigners cross through underground tunnels and then hide in safehouses like Anne Frank

>>15246673
Ironic.
>>15246675
Firstly, we'd already established that they are nazis. That part was never in dispute. Secondly, I really have no idea where anyone got the idea that any of them won anything, because they'd simply refuse to further address any argument and resort to namecalling and threats of violence. Like nazis do. That's what victory looks like to them. And to you, apparently. Hence, you're a pathetic nazi unable to genuinely best people in an argument. See how that follows?

I am, of course, excluding >>15246642 who is genuinely closer to besting me than any of you sad lot could dream of being, yet has not had the audacity to claim victory.

>>15246687
I really don't blame the foreigners so much. Generally speaking they just want a better life, and a better life is to be among Europeans than among their people.
I do blame the (((people))) in power, and the ideology behind it.

>>15246270
Look at this eyewitness:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173507/Pictured-Danish-Nazi-volunteer-facing-mass-murder-trial-horrors-death-camp-1-400-Jews-forced-dig-graves-strip-naked-shot-head.html

Wait... he was an SS-Guard? And he admitted to it? He must be a liar!

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen_der_Sicherheitspolizei_und_des_SD#/media/Datei%3AGerman_officer_executes_Jewish_women_who_survived_a_mass_shooting_outside_the_Mizocz_ghetto%2C_14_October_1942.jpg
Those people are sunbathing!!!

>>15246692
>I do blame the (((people))) in power, and the ideology behind it.
Democratically elected

>>15246691
>nazis, nazis, nazis
>nazis trying to kill me
Take your meds, schizo. That guy you're referring to has objectively won many times over by now. There were some others earlier too.

>>15244460
The good genocide and eugenics are referred to by names such as sanitation and epidemiology.

>>15246698
Hence the ideology part. I oppose "democracy" as well, even in theory, and especially in practice where the aristocratic principle of nature demands that there is a hierarchy of power even if it hides behind the facade the democracy.

>>15246698
Mediacratically elected.

>>15246684
I genuinely don't know enough about this topic to further dispute this lol
Congratulations. I'm not saying I agree with you, but I will admit I would have to study the topic more in-depth to refute you, and I would indeed look foolish arguing further at this point. Thank you for humouring my antics.

>>15246704
Beneficial or of broader interest perhaps more descriptive than good

>>15246695
>Those people are sunbathing!!!
Those photos originate in 1946 from the other side of the Iron Curtain. Their legitimacy is in serious doubt in the historical community because the Soviets staged a significant number of photographs to build their mythos of a necessary ethnic purge of Germans and "subversives" from the USSR.

>>15246270
>Though regrettably the modern day nazi academia is full of deniers as they deny all of this
That's a good point.

>>15246703
>Heh, these three nazis trounced you!
>I can assure you these nazis didn't trounce me in the slightest
>Who ever said they were nazis, schizo?
Of course, with stellar argumentation skills like these, how could I hope to ever best the Aryan race's finest?
>There were some others earlier too.
Nope, just the one. Certainly not you, ever, or any of the pathetic name-callers.

>>15246715
Actually it was the presence of the Red Army that prevented retaliation against ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe. It was after the withdrawal of troops that the Germans left for East Germany.

>>15246718
Well, now that we've established that at least one nazi definitely trounced you, is there any reason to argue whether two others did too?

>>15246723
>Actually it was the presence of the Red Army that prevented retaliation against ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe.
They literally raped women "as payback" for having to fight the Wehrmacht.

>>15246724
What, you think you get to ride on the coattails of the one guy who actually put in the effort? Wretched little hanger-on. Makes sense, of course. You people are all about claiming the achievements of others for yourselves simply because you happen to share a "race". Never mind that none of you were having the same argument with me.

>>15246726
How do you think the Poles felt about Germans

>>15246715
" That the photos indeed show the shooting of Jews in connection with the liquidation of the ghetto was also confirmed by a statement of Gendarmerie-Gebietsfuehrer Josef Paur in 1961."

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa1065469

Germans lying again about their own atrocities.

>>15246731
>What, you think you get to ride on the coattails of the one guy who actually put in the effort?
All the glory goes to him, of course. I myself established right at the start that I have no interest in talking sincerely to you. I'm just glad that you got wrecked and salty.

>>15246695
Listen, I understand you know very little about this. Take a step back and think about the scale of the crime accused, and the evidence you are providing.
Crime: a systematic, state-sponsored purposeful genocide of approximately 6 million jews, mainly in gas chambers using a delousing agent and diesel engine exhaust.
You are providing a confession, and some blurry pictures of dubious authenticity. Please look up what atrocity propaganda is. Now this might maybe work for one murder (but even this would really require it to be a fair trial under some law -- Nuremberg and the like were subject to no law, which was explicitly stated.) I gave you an example of a false confession -- the commanders of Buchenwald confessing to gassing -- despite that being understood to be false even by the most mainstream historians.
Think now, what kind of evidence would you think would suffice for this crime? Why not consider the real and well-documented Cambodian genocide
https://www.d.dccam.org/Projects/Maps/Mapping.htm
Maps of 20,000 mass graves containing hundreds of thousands of people. These graves were exhumed, documented, photographed etc.
The eye-witness testimony is tens of thousands of people, who tell a very similar and familiar story of mass incarcerations, and shootings -- nothing out of the ordinary in the history of human conflict. There are records of the Khmer Rouge communications etc. And remember, this genocide is nearly a an order of magnitude smaller than the other alleged one.
I know you are unfamiliar with the evidence. I will honestly tell you what is generally presented as the strongest evidence
>Posen Speeches
>Hoefle Telegram and Koehrr Report (report on >Jewish transports to Treblinka)
>Confessions
>A few dozen eye witness testimonies for the genocide operations (in some cases, less, like the Reinhardt camps (claim~1.5 million people killed (more than Cambodia btw) effectively having one witness at Nuremberg)
>A shady entry in Goebbels's diary.

>>15246737
They don't present any evidence of those claims and they're significantly post-fact. The only provenance we have is from the Soviet-occupied Czech government.

>>15246742
I gracefully conceded defeat to one person, and most definitely never to you or any of the other pathetic nazis, most emphatically the one who claimed he could single-handedly win every argument against me and proceeded to just call me a demon a few times, although it appears I simply missed out on one of his replies in the flurry so I'll get right back to dunking on him lmao

>>15246752
I can see the narcissistic injury they caused by beating you so thoroughly is still stinging. You have to get the last word in.

>>15246752
I'm just cheering for the winners here. No need to get so salty with me.

>>15246447
>At this point, I doubt you have posted a single line worth reading in your entire life.
By some supreme irony my eyes literally glossed over your entire post lol. Must be a sign.
>I only want to erase your existence.
Really? I am unique in my existence? Sui generis?
>You want to remove my whole race.
Why would I want to do that, when it includes me?
>It's something that makes it trivial.
We're about to discover that your IQ is not remotely twice mine, or even once mine.
>As I said, it's twice that of yours.
You did not say that, of course. You perhaps implied it, just as I implied your IQ is in the single digits.
>I want to have a nation state. Something that my people had merely decades ago. We had plenty of white nation states in the past.
So, just a refresher, am I, the malevolent white Jewish demon mutant, welcome in the white paradise, by virtue of being white? Or otherwise, what does it mean to have a white nation state?
Note, the one thing I actually am out of all those is white.

>>15246754
Nice DARVO ;)
>>15246755
Aw, thanks, yes, we're both winners.

>>15246771
>we're both winners.
What? How did that happen? I have literally zero interest in arguing with you, since I find your output revolting, and you yourself are an extremely sore loser.

>>15246782
Oh, no, that wasn't an inclusive we. I mean me, who trounced those nazis, and of course the guy I conceded to.
>you yourself are an extremely sore loser
Rather ironic, considering you felt a desperate need to claim victory in an argument you didn't actually feel like arguing yourself on behalf of a bunch of losers who could do little more than namecalling. Is that what losing gracefully looks like?

In that case, you're a demon, I trounced you, bam, most graceful loser ever.

Selfish coping and seething mostly. A society composed of mostly higher tier white genes as a base with some promising samples from other races getting sprinkled in would be god tier.

>>15246414
>"Being invaded" is hyperbolic emotional language.
Perhaps sometimes that is needed? But more importantly, it's not genuinely hyperbolic. Does, to the [invaded] (insert whatever term you like -- I dislike language games) party matter how that process was initiated/perpetuated? The [invaded] party runs the risk of losing its privileges, standings, genetic future, power, culture and language. This is just a consequence of allochthonous domination.
Is it possible, in your mind, for that process to transpire peacefully?
For example, consider the Islamic caliphate territories or the southern Chinese lands. I am very strictly only referring to the periods several centuries past conquest -- you can imagine the year 900 AD. Both of these areas became not culturally assimilated due to ordinance from above (the Muslim rulers famously preferring their subjects to remain non-Muslim due to the tax), but due to internal migration and cultural pressure. The key parallel for the latter in regards to the present is that the present does not offer an adequate ethno-cultural counter-pressure (it still works moderately well -- right now. Do you think assimilation will work as well once the ethnic scales are further tipped? With people foregoing learning the majority language?).
Now, does it matter if a) a government originated centuries ago from a foreign invader dynasty, or b) represents a corrupted native one that does not adequately protect against ethnic shift anymore?

The point is, both invasion and "invasion" effectively end at the same outcomes. Outside of a strictly martial context, does the distinction matter?

>the argument that white people deserve to have "white homelands" but ALSO every place they colonised is obviously rubbish.
Your mind is muddled. Learn to argue. What do such different claims have to do with each other? Just because there are American white nationalists, a Brit or Hungarian is prohibited from offering pro-ethnostate views? What?

>>15246708
Well thanks for admitting it. HBD (human biodeiverisy) is an interesting area of research. Though at some point it does get repetetive, as the findings are similar, and the implications are clear. Whatever you might read on Wikipedia is not always accurate. For example it might state the belief in race and IQ differing for genetic reasoning being pseuoscientific, whilst in reality among experts, the average response is that the gaps are approximately 50% genetic (I am in the higher end -- 80% + genetic) Here is an example
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289619301886
Ideology heavily permeates everything (including science -- ergo use your common sense and reason and not just outsourcing your thinking to whatever rationalwiki and a professor of transgenderism at Colombia university thinks), as humans we are generally prone to religious thinking. Shown by the universality of religions. In the secular age this manifests as widespread ideologies such as Marxism, egalitarianism, anti-racism, liberalism etc. (and then you of course have fringe le ebil nazis like me). The origins of which are not unlike religions in some senses.

>>15246804
>The [invaded] party runs the risk of losing its privileges, standings, genetic future, power, culture and language. This is just a consequence of allochthonous domination.
Wow you say that like being a minority is a bad thing
>Is it possible, in your mind, for that process to transpire peacefully?
It currently is. Well, apart from the white nationalist mass shootings.
>Now, does it matter if a) a government originated centuries ago from a foreign invader dynasty
I don't know, ask the English>b) represents a corrupted native one that does not adequately protect against ethnic shift anymore?
No need to protect against what it morally neutral
>Outside of a strictly martial context, does the distinction matter?
Well, if you give me a sandwich, or I kill you for a sandwich, the end result is the same, so does the distinction matter?
>Your mind is muddled. Learn to argue.
That's a direct response to a claim someone made. You're right, it is nonsense. That's why I called it out.

>>15246826
Uh oh, looks like you're about to get trounced by a fourth nazi.

>>15246745
I actually would have used Hoefle next.

I want to act scientifically on this. I have thus far presented some direct evidence for it having happened. However falsification is the holy grail of science. So, falsify the hypothesis then.

The evidence falsifying the holocaust you have presented thus far:
-

I have not been in Auschwitz so I can not judge that part. However I have been to other concentration camps. Assuming the crematoria have not been added post war there must have been quite some killings there.

>>15246833
Please learn to count, Anon. After one comes two. I'm 2-1.

>>15246838
>Assuming the crematoria have not been added post war there must have been quite some killings there.
Some of them actually are post-war reconstructions, sometimes with flaws, as acknowledged by holocaust scholars, in case he's going to pounce on that.

>>15246833
>>15246845
Anyway he won't get the chance if he doesn't hurry up because I'm thinking of going to bed and at that point I'm going to forget all about this asinine banter.

>>15246845
If you count losses as wins, just how badly did that one nazi actually trounce you for you to admit he won? I must admit that I didn't really pay attention, but now I'm almost curious enough to read back.

>>15246858
>I must admit that I didn't really pay attention
Don't worry, that much was obvious. You got a lot wrong. Thank you for admitting it. 3-1.

>>15246838
The thing here is I claim I am not making the remarkable claim.
The Germans were seen as notoriously intelligent, autistacally disciplined, organized people who documented [math] \textit{everything} [/math]. All their documentation is very clear about deportations, ghettos, work camps. There are floor plans, radio communications, documents, letters etc.
Nothing, and I mean [math] \textit{nothing} [/math] has an explicit overt mention of a mass genocide operation. No Hitler order, no record of gassings, nothing. Notably Hitler's political testament is incompatible with him knowing of any genocide operation
https://hitler.org/writings/last_testament/
>I have left no one in doubt that if the people of Europe are once more treated as mere blocks of shares in the hands of these international money and finance conspirators, then the sole responsibility for the massacre must be borne by the true culprits: the Jews. Nor have I left anyone in doubt that this time millions of European children of Aryan descent will starve to death, millions of men will die in battle, and hundreds of thousands of women and children will be burned or bombed to death in our cities without the true culprits being held to account, [math] \textbf{albeit more humanely} [/math]
Hence why for a while there was the allowed controversy in fringe spaces of mainstream academia as to the extent of Hitler's knowledge in any the Holocaust (Hilberg himself, probably the most respected mainstream scholar on this topic, said there was unfortunately no evidence to pin the crime on Hitler, he took a functionalist approach to make it work; the Bureaucracy came to a consensus without centralization, in effect, mind reading)
There are documents of the Einsatzgruppen which did kill jews, as part of anti-partisan operations in the East (protecting the German backlines against terrorist activity).
(cont)

>>15244460
Because there is the question of who decides should be genocided and why the person deciding shouldn't be genocided themselves.

>>15246868
What? Now you're counting just talking with a cheerleader a victory for yourself? That's pretty pathetic, mate. What a simp.

>>15246873
Hey, you've been arguing for several posts now. You can deny it but that'd be silly. Then again, you're used to denying reality, aren't you?
>What a simp.
Do you even know what a simp is, you self-proclaimed cheerleader? See the irony?

You know, it's probably because you can't tell the difference between
>You're evil and stupid and I'm smart and white and therefore I'm going to beat you, watch: you are evil and stupid and a Jew, haha, I won
and
>Here is a detailed explanation of my position along with several graphs and statistics
that that was such an easy 3-1 for me.

>>15246883
Seethe.

>>15246870
The documentation that is used, such as the Wansee Conference, or the aforementioned telegrams and reports can only be used as evidence if one [math] \textit{already beleives} [/math] in the Holocaust. Because supposedly everything was in code words, and nothing was really what they meant. The evidence for this is circular; we know it's code because we know what happened, and we know what happened because it's in the code.
Now onto physical evidence. First of all, every camp had crematoria. Including the ones in the West which are not claimed to be death camps today (though strangely they were back then, but whatever). For obvious reasons, to stop the spread of disease and to hold a large population of inmates.
I believe what he is referring to>>15246851 is the Soviet "reconstructions" of alleged gas chambers.
So to be clear, there is practically no evidence of gas chambers. For example the Auschwitz floor plans for the an alleged gas chamber had that room labeled as "morgue".
The claims of gassing at other camps -- like some of the Reinhardt camps -- are really so unbelievable that one can dismiss it on it's face (nearly). The claim was that diesel engines were used. In one case using a Soviet tank. Now if I didn't know any better that would sound to me like someone just thinking "the biggest smelliest exhaust is surely the most deadly!" (it's not). There is no evidence for this either. Thanks to the German evidence destroying machines.
Similarity with the bodies. There are no mass graves akin to this>>15246745 in Cambodia.
The claims are, again, silly. In the case of Auschwitz the story has changed. Originally millions of people of people's ashes were thrown into this pic rel little pond
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ltjI3BXKBgY&feature=share&utm_source=EKLEiJECCKjOmKnC5IiRIQ
Eventually it changed into only tens of thousands, the rest spread out and used as fertilizer or something
(cont)

>>15246826
>No need to protect against what it morally neutral
Why does morality matter? Is morality involved in any shape or form if you prefer to eat banana to apple?
The English or other European/white people can have interests that are completely orthogonal from any moral considerations. The desire to not see your country become unrecognizable is a pretty defensible desire.
>Well, if you give me a sandwich, or I kill you for a sandwich, the end result is the same, so does the distinction matter?
Yes, correct. It doesn't matter to you as a sandwich-receiving actor how you acquired the sandwich -- it matters just that you got it. Of course, for me, this is different, but we are talking about the sandwich-receiver here. This place is, in my argument, taken by the [invaded] people.
You probably can't follow your own line of reasoning. Obviously, the outcomes for me are not the same (either I live and am robbed, or I am killed), so my place, the potentially killed party, is not identical in the argument to the [invaded] country. The outcomes are only the same if you set the sandwich-receiver <=> [invaded] country.

>>15246889
You don't have to narrate your actions, it was self-evident. And now, as promised, I'm leaving you all behind, at 3-1. >>15246804 has yet to come up with something but I doubt it was going to be much, so we'll call that one a draw.

>>15246892
Also before I am accused of being disingenuous, the pond is bigger than it appears. The point is still it has never been shown these tons of ashes exist.

>>15246894
>>15246893
Well speak of the devil lol, fine, I can spare one more moment.
>The desire to not see your country become unrecognizable is a pretty defensible desire.
Why, if it's merely different?
>we are talking about the sandwich-receiver here. This place is, in my argument, taken by the [invaded] people.
So if it's possible to attain a sandwich through entirely peaceful means, why is that so bad? There doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with it.

Seems a bit of a waste to post this as I'm going to close the tab now but anyway

>>15246912
Thank you for warning me.

>>15246912
Oof, yet another nazi going to claim your scalp. Try not to burst an aneurysm.

>>15246892
As for the other main camps. The claims get more ridiculous, and I am not making any of this up, it is the official story.
The Reinhardt camps all operated similarly. They arrived on a train, unclothed, told they were going to get a shower, gassed with a car or tank engine (note the Germans were the most scientifically advanced people on the planet. This goes into another observation: European accomplishment essentially radiates out from Germany (inc. Austria) being it's "core" or center. This area includes Easter France, England, Netherlands, Scandinavia and Northern Italy). Then they were burried in the worlds biggest mass grave ever seen, holding hundreds of thousands of people in a (literally) impossibly small volume. Howver, with the looming defeat, the brilliant Germans realized that they needed to destroy evidence of the crime, due to the looming Red Army (highly dubious by the way to spend so much effort on such an operation in the middle of an existential war, but I digress). Thus they unearthed the mass graves containing ~ million people (between 3 camps roughly), and cremated them in open air fires (gets pretty cold, wet, and snowy in Poland I hear in the Winter, strange). Then they threw the ashes back into the pits (so much for hiding?). And continued a bit of the operations for a bit longer before shutting down and destroying all evidence once again (extremely convenient). Don't believe me? Here is Yad Vashem (Israel Holocaust Memorial Museum)
https://odysee.com/@Slammdcrxx:8/Israeli-Holocaust-Museum---There's-No-Physical-Evidence-of-the-Holocaust:b?lid=watchlater

In essence, the argument is summarized by pic related.
But once again, my original claim was that here you were making the extraordinary claim.

>>15246454
>Nazi society was actually fairly tolerant of other races, even Jews, if they had put their lives on the line to defend Germany in WWI or were committed to the nation's success.
If by "fairly tolerant of" you mean they were sent to the death camps last

>>15246870
Summary
> Null Hypothesis
You are right on that one. I have the burden of proof. See below.
>1. Nazis do not mention mass genocide
agreed (as far as I can judge. Mostly have seen mentions of "disinfection", but never true references to murder. This might be because they did not think of those murdered as people)
>2. Hitler is not solely (or directly) responsible for the claimed genocide
can agree on that one (I am not educated enough on Wannsee/Reinhardt to judge that)
>3. Einsatzgruppen have murdered, but less
cannot judge, doubt (I have heard about multiple ghetto mass murders such as Białystok which alone accounts for a few ten thousand people, if true).
>cont >>15246892
>4. Code words (likely you mean Höfle)
Yes of course it is using code, it is a secret operation that involves mass murder. The numbers could mean something different (I mean, that's why they have been connected to it so late), however in case of Höfle it fits 1. regarding the concentration camp letters (mostly), 2. to the Korherr report. (If you accept the term "Sonderbehandlungen" as meaning murder and Korherr is not made up, it's pretty hard not to go in the millions.) and 3. it directly mentions operation Reinhar(d)t.
Side note: Reinhart literally translates to cleanhard.
>5. Gas chambers Auschwitz
I have not been there, I can not judge that. If you have literature recommendations I am open for that (I would like not to get watchlisted if possible, however that is secondary to me).
There are buildings directly beneath the Auschwitz crematoria that could have been used as morgues or gas chambers (or both).
>6. Diesel
I think it has been in experimental stage. Isolated and crammed rooms might even make people suffocate directly
>7. Mass graves and ash
Mass graves are not needed with the crematoria. I can not judge the pond story vs the river they put it in.

cont

>cont >>15246951
>8. Further arguments
>Scientifically advanced
Not the Nazis. They were the "dumme jungs" among the germans. Related: Serial killers often are stupid. This directly relates to frontal brain damage and moral disinhibition. See Otto Moll as the example case. I think it actually is him, who experimented with Diesel gassing, however I don't know for certain.
>Stupid
Agreed, but: The Nazis have done other stupid things (such as leading a multi front war), the Wehrmacht not as much, I think. In the end Hitler was the military commander and got defeat as a result. I really want to stress that Wehrmacht != NSDAP as far as I can tell.
(>grave volume
See above. I think (without knowing for certain) that only later on when they had crematoria did the Nazis murder as much people.)
>9. image
Will read later

Let me formulate some further tests that should help falsify the holocaust.
1. Neighbours (did they hear gunshots, did they see trains, smoke, smell)
2. Crematorium existence and Gas Chamber existence
3. Dead people/ash
Would be interesting to study the river sediments
4. Nazi documentation (Höfle etc.)
5. Crematorium/gas chamber usage marks
6. Industrial output of the camps in terms of human hair, valuables, gold teeth and clothing
7. People working in Sonderkommando (it's more than Henryk Tauber) or in the Waffen-SS speaking about it (verifiably).

I will now go to bed. Furthermore I will likely not have the time to continue the discussion tomorrow. I will however save arguments (incl. the videos) you make and get back to them later. I will also try to judge my own above indicators thoroughly.

>>15247084
>Not the Nazis. They were the "dumme jungs" among the germans.
I appreciate the through responses, and will respond (assuming a jannie doesn't nuke this thread). But quickly I would like to counter this. The German leadership was highly intelligent. For reference, Goring in pic rel said Hitler out classed him intellectually (indeed, if one reads him, his speeches, and looks at his life this is clear. Alongside the fact leaders are generally the among the smartest or the smartest person of a movement)
For further reference, when British politicians were asked what is the probability of landing heads two consecutive flips in a row, only about 50% of the conservative party and like 25% of the labour party got it right.

>>15246988
One of the most important historic diarists of the period Victor Klemperer, a Jew, was never arrested or sent to a camp because he was distinguished in WWI for bravery. Plenty of blacks and Arabs served in the SS and were given distinction by Germany. Hitler was the only world leader to personally speak to Jesse Owens, who was so ashamed of his treatment in the US that he spoke out in support of Hitler's civility in contrast to Roosevelt.

>>15247095
So that's why he chose Dönitz...

>>15247108
Hitler -- seen as the 20th century's most profound racist -- had views completely in line with the time (and in line with any honest assessment). The only time I know he explicitly expressed territorial ambitions beyond Germany was in Mein Kampf with Russia in what he thought was an inevitable war between the Jewish communist Soviet Union and National Socialist Germany trying to save European civilization. In addition, from more or less trauma from the English food blockade which starved hundreds of thousands of Germans in the eve of AND post WW1 (hence the Ukraine -- extremely fertile lands).

>>15247118
by eve, I meant twilight of WW1. In other words around when peace negotiations began.

>>15247082
>>15247084
I should mention there is a clear potential motive. And in particular the central role it plaus today. In my conversations with people, it has become self-evident for me that in many respects liberalism (and it's corollaries) serves as the equivalent of a religion in the past. This event -- WW2, and in particular the Holocaust -- serves as a political, ideological, and moral south pole; whatever Hitler and the Germans advocated is the ultimate evil (eugenics, epistrocracy/aristorcracy, anti-liberlism, ethno-nationalism, JQ etc.), opposing them is the ultimate good (anti-"racism", democracy, egalitarianism, democracy, open borders, internationalism). What was Trump called by opponents? Nazi (I don't like Trump btw). Or indeed any somewhat right-wing person who opposes certain dogmas. What is essentially a curse word in modern moral and political discourse? Fascist, nazi etc..
I am not saying that this was the motivation; war atrocity propaganda is common, in this case, the Germans suffered a [math]\textit{total defeat}[/math] fighting the 3 global empires, despite BTFOing them on a per-man basis (i.e. kd ratio), made all the more impressive with their relative lack of resources. It is worth noting that Germany [math] \textbf{never officially or legally surrendered} [/math], and fought until the very end. It is also not a conspiracy to say that the Jews held massively inordinate in influence in the press, media, and other narrative-forming institutions (e.g. academia, finance, Hollywood etc.)), but it has in many ways served this purpose. And now has replaced Christianity -- in my estimation -- as the state religion. Indeed, denial is considered blasphemy and is literally illegal in most of the West. What other historical event is backed by the use of force?

>>15246705
>calls for a secret permanent power behind democracy
>complains the (((secret power))) doesnt do what he wants

>>15246270
I believe Dirlewanger would have done this

>>15244460
>why is the public so objectionable to concepts such as genocide and eugenics
It's not.
the goycattle do as they're told.
If the government and media started talking about how great genocide and eugenics are soon enough the goycattle would ask for it.
Of course, you'd rename them for namespace compatibility with previous software versions.
See Canada lmao

So is there any Holocaust Denial theory that does not, at its core, posit that a massive globe-spanning Jewish conspiracy cooperating across the Iron Curtain and even from within Nazi-occupied territories since before the war even ended has come together to produce the most complete and detailed scam in history that managed to bamboozle the entire scientific and historiographic community for going on almost nine decades save for a couple of brave dissenting shitposters who actually routinely get caught lying about specifics but are totally on the money in general terms?

Because honestly if holocaust denial necessarily requires me to accept that then I don't even think the details are worth arguing about

>>15247095
I wonder if Nazi Germany had the smartest government in human history. I really doubt anyone in my country's government has an IQ above 115 at this time.

>>15247737
>wants to eat animals
>does not want to be eaten by animals

>>15247935
>I wonder if Nazi Germany had the smartest government in human history.
I guess this alone is a scathing indictment of IQ as a concept

>>15247946
It might also be the absolute biggest example of Jantelagen and crab mentality imaginable. Half the world uniting to pull an exceptional people back down.

>>15247095
All midwits except Schacht and Seyss-Inquart
>the probability of landing heads two consecutive flips in a row
1/4

Let's test out your theory and have a global nuclear holocaust. Then after the planet becomes a nigh unsurviable wasteland those who manage to survive can be deemed master race op.

>>15244476

Why should someone respect your existence and rights if you're not going to respect theirs?

>>15247946
Funny you should say that, since Hitler himself banned IQ tests for being too Jewish

>>15246745
>Crime: a systematic, state-sponsored purposeful genocide of approximately 6 million jews, mainly in gas chambers using a delousing agent and diesel engine exhaust.

The misinformation that the 6 million were almost entirely gassed and cartoonishly tortured in Auschwitz Birkenau stemmed from the US education system, and has naturally bred a generation of deniers. Most of the 6 million were simply murdered in their villages, or starved in labor camps not unlike the Soviet gulags. The main culprits were Nazi death squads, usually consisting of local sympathizers.

>>15244460
because no one wants too be on the receiving end of eugenics you fucking retard. people already believe that a fucking vaccine is going too activate some kill switch that causes mass death and you think they wouldn't go completly insane if there was a genuine eugenics program where the government sterilises or forces you too have an abortion?

>>15248019
>people already believe that a fucking vaccine is going too activate some kill switch that causes mass death
Those tend to be the pro-eugenics crowd though, oddly enough

>>15248012
You can't count deaths by all causes because nearly a hundred million people died altogether during the war. Just how many Jews would we expect to have seen die if we assumed that they were completely ordinary civilians and soldiers in Germany, Poland and Soviet Union?

>>15248046
Statistically fewer.

>>15248012
You are talking about the fabled "Holocaust by Bullets", which began to be pushed as certain pillars of the original claims started to fall.
Notice I said "mainly". The current claims are approximately this for the alleged death camps:
>Auschwitz - 1.1 million (Strangely this is part of institutional denialism, as the commander of Auschwitz, Hoss, confessed to gassing a mathematically impossible number of 2.5 million people, with an additional half a million deaths from starvation, disease etc.)
>Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor - ~1.5 million
>~half a million spread throughout the rest of the camps
The Holocaust is death camps, essentially. You call this into doubt, and further minimize it (e.g. Majdanek, original claims were the Germans gassed 2 million people(!!). Over time this has moved all the way down to near insignificance) , the whole narrative comes crashing down.
>>15248046
Based on civilian casualties and where they lived at the time, you can expect approximately 1-1.5 million Jews to die.
>>15247928
It is simply not to the scale of what you think. The alleged eye-witnesses for the genocide operations is extremely small. Not thousands, or even hundreds.
There was atrocity propaganda from all sides (though certainly nothing to the extent of the Allies (Americans are gassing the Japanese in their concentration camps!)). Germany was completely defeated and conquered. Nuremberg can easily be seen as a victor's show trial, showing the evil of the Germans and affirming the atrocity propaganda without anyone genuinely being able to defend themselves. Of course you are going to narrate yourself as the good guy fighting the ultimate evil.
This was subsequently entrenched into law. I claim this event serves as a foundational myth, not unlike many religions >>15247365.
There are "dissident scholars", and of course a small minority, in part because these people are heavily persecuted for their writings. Plenty of imprisonments, and obviously defamations.

>>15248124
>It is simply not to the scale of what you think. The alleged eye-witnesses...
Nah, see, you're doing it again. You're trying to convince me of the global Jewish conspiracy.

Occam's razor simply suggests that the nazis, when in power, tried to do what so many neo-nazis today claim to want to do when they're in power.

>>15248124
I can't seem to find a lot of the numbers in your infographic. Is there any evidence any of these were genuinely claimed by anyone? The 2,000,000 figure, at least, seems to be taken from the entirety of Operation Reinhard. The 360,000 figure was already in use in 1948 and the next appears to have been the 235,000 figure. The 78,000 appears to be a current lower bound.

Anyone can put shit in a picture and say "this is the official holocaust narrative, now watch me debunk it" but is it? Seems like a lot of the time, holocaust deniers first have to invent a separate holocaust to deny.

>>15247740
>According to Peter Longerich, Dirlewanger's leadership "was characterized by continued alcohol abuse, looting, sadistic atrocities, rape, and murder—and his mentor Berger tolerated this behaviour, as did Himmler, who so urgently needed men such as the Sonderkommando Dirlewanger in his fight against 'subhumanity'.
Wow what great people, truly a role model

>>15248159
The Polish-Soviet Investigative Commission, which
was formed soon after the dissolution of the camp, claimed that 1,500,000
people had died in Majdanek in the duration of its existence
https://www.nizkor.org/maidanek-polish-soviet-extraordinary-commission-report/
>The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on thc direct orders of their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting and wholesale asphyxiation
in gas chambers of about one million five hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews.
These conversations are always exhausting since of course you are arguing on the side of the Cathedral, so to speak. And all you have to do is say I am making shit up etc.

>>15248159
The Polish-Soviet Investigative Commission, which
was formed soon after the dissolution of the camp, claimed that 1,500,000
people had died in Majdanek in the duration of its existence
https://www.nizkor.org/maidanek-polish-soviet-extraordinary-commission-report/
>The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on thc direct orders of their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews.
These conversations are always exhausting since of course you are arguing on the side of the Cathedral, so to speak. And all you have to do is say I am making shit up etc.

>>15248186
>These conversations are always exhausting since of course you are arguing on the side of the Cathedral
kek
Ironic because you're the one arguing with absolute religious conviction.

Okay, that explains where one of those mystery numbers came from. Of course, the very fact that this figure was radically adjusted downward not even four years later shows that this was hardly considered a settled matter. How is it that the holocaust supposedly doesn't suffer investigation, yet at the same time, investigation is done all the time and figures are, in fact, adjusted downward on occasion? Maybe the real issue holocaust deniers have is that the conservators of these historical sites know better than to let raging anti-Semites unfettered access to them?

These conversations are exhausting for my side too because every single issue you people raise always has an accepted answer, and in the end, you just don't want to accept it.

>>15248203
>Ironic because you're the one arguing with absolute religious conviction.
I like to think I have been arguing fairly reasonably. At no point just deflecting to faith or authority.
>This is true revisionism!
Yes, I am familiar with this. One can only make that argument at a surface-glance. In other words, let me also see what led to their conclusions.
The point of showing these revisions was to show on how shaky the original allegations were. This is adjusting by almost [math] \text{2 orders of magnitude} [/math], and was done mainly at the pressure of revisionists ("deniers"), breaking down the story and it's various impossibilities and inconsistencies.

>noooo I was supposed to be techno tyrant not dig my own grave there has to be some mistake!!

>>15248222
>I like to think I have been arguing fairly reasonably.
You let the mask slip with the "Cathedral" there. You seem to need an enemy, a shadowy, nefarious foil.
>The point of showing these revisions was to show on how shaky the original allegations were.
Yes, that is accepted by mainstream holocaust scholarship. It only makes sense that, in the chaos of the war and its immediate aftermath, no more precise estimates could be arrived at.

>>15248240
Cathedral is a general term sometimes used in reference to the dominant intellectual position. Prior to the rise of secularism, that was the Church. Now it is the universities and the like.

>>15248222
>>15248240
I mean what I'm seeing here is that if you raise a reasonable point and point out genuine flaws in the narrative, then "the Cathedral" will say "oh, right you are then".

>>15248245
>Cathedral is a general term sometimes used by conspiratard losers in reference to the dominant intellectual position because everyone else is, like, brainwashed man

>>15248256
NTA but it's like you're going out of your way to show that you are, indeed, brainwashed.

>>15248248
It is literally de jure illegal to deny the Holocaust in most of the West. I will provide you with a list of some notable imprisonments due to denial. Many here were simple scholars.

1985 (Germany) Thies Christophersen - served one year of a one and a half year prison sentence
Sep. 1987 (France) Jean-Marie Le Pen - fine of €183,000
Nov. 1991 (United Kingdom) Fred Leuchter - arrested and deported
Oct. 1992 (Germany) Otto Ernst Remer - 22 month imprisonment, which he avoided by fleeing to Spain in February 1994
Oct. 28, 1993 (Germany) Fred Leuchter - arrested, but released on bail. He left Germany before being put on trial
Feb. 27, 1998 (France) Roger Garaudy - 6 months imprisonment (suspended), ₣240,000 (€37,500) - fine
Dec. 12, 1996 (Germany) Udo Walendy - sentenced twice: 15 months, and 14 months prison - without parole
Jul. 21, 1998 (Switzerland) Jürgen Graf - 15 months' imprisonment (fled Switzerland to avoid sentence)
Jul. 21, 1998 (Switzerland) Gerhard Förster - 12 months' imprisonment, disgorgement
Apr. 8, 1999 (Australia) Fredrick Töben - 7 months' imprisonment Mannheim, Germany - retrial - 2011 indefinitely stayed by judge Dr Meinerzhagen
May 27, 1999 (France) Jean Plantin - 6 months' imprisonment (suspended), fine, damages
Jun. 1999 (Germany) Jean-Marie Le Pen - Fine of €6,000
Dec. 7, 1999 (Poland) Dariusz Ratajczak - One year probation, dismissed from university teaching position, banned from all Polish universities for 3 years
Apr. 11, 2000 (Switzerland) Gaston-Armand Amaudruz - 1 year imprisonment, damages
Jun. 9, 2004 (France) Vincent Reynouard - 24 months' imprisonment, of which 18 months were suspended, plus €3,000
Feb. 20, 2006 (Austria) David Irving - 3 years' imprisonment. Released and deported after serving 13 months
Mar. 15, 2006 (Germany) Germar Rudolf - 2½ years' imprisonment
Oct. 3, 2006 (France) Robert Faurisson - €7,500 fine, 3 months' probation

>>15248293
Feb. 15, 2007 (Germany) Ernst Zündel - 5 years' imprisonment
Nov. 8, 2007 (France) Vincent Reynouard - 1 year imprisonment and a €10,000 fine
Jan. 14, 2008 (Austria) Wolfgang Fröhlich - 6 years' imprisonment (third offence)
Jan. 15, 2008 (Germany) Sylvia Stolz - 3½ years' imprisonment
Jun. 19, 2008 (Belgium) Vincent Reynouard - 1 year imprisonment and €25,000 fine
Oct. 1 - Nov. 19, 2008 (Germany) Fredrick Töben - London extradition to Mannheim, Germany, on European Arrest Warrant issued by Germany, failed
Mar. 11, 2009 (Germany) Horst Mahler - 5 years' imprisonment
Apr. 27, 2009 (Austria) Gerd Honsik - 5 years' imprisonment, later reduced to four years
Aug. 15 - Nov. 12, 2009 (Australia) Fredrick Töben - 3 months' imprisonment for contempt of court
Oct. 23, 2009 (Germany) Dirk Zimmerman - 9 months' imprisonment
Oct. 27, 2009 (Germany) Richard Williamson - €12,000 fine [later overturned]
Feb. 6, 2011 (Germany) Günter Deckert - 5 month imprisonment for translating Carlo Mattogno's 'Auschwitz – The First Gassings' into German
Jan. 31, 2013 (Hungary) Gyorgy Nagy - 18-month suspended jail sentence
Feb. 11, 2015 (France) Vincent Reynouard - 2 years imprisonment and €4,500 fine
May 7, 2015 (France) Vincent Reynouard - 2 months imprisonment
Nov. 12, 2015 (Germany) Ursula Haverbeck - 10 months' imprisonment
Nov. 4, 2016 (France) Vincent Reynouard - 5 month imprisonment, €4,000 fine
May 5, 2018 (Germany) Alfred Schaefer - €5,000 fine
May 8, 2018 (Germany) Ursula Haverbeck - 2 years' imprisonment
Oct. 26, 2018 (Germany) Monika Schaefer - 10 months' imprisonment
May 23, 2019 (Germany) Sylvia Stolz - 18 months' imprisonment
Sept. 18, 2020 (France) Hervé Ryssen - 17 months' imprisonment
Nov. 25, 2020 (France) Vincent Reynouard - 4 months' imprisonment
Dec. 4, 2020 (Germany) Ursula Haverbeck - 1 years' imprisonment

>>15248293
>simple scholars
Not very good ones then, to deny something in the face of overwhelming evidence.

In your first three I already see a former SS-Sonderführer, a far-right politician, and a guy who got caught falsifying evidence in court.

>>15248293
>>15248295
So despite your characterisation of "simple scholars", most of the people on this list seem anything but humble searchers for the truth. There are a lot of literal former Nazis and their family members, neo-Nazis, and other far-right aligned politicians. They are frequently overtly anti-Semitic entirely regardless of their views of the holocaust, and also of course often reject the entire holocaust out of hand instead of merely questioning an aspect of it. One accused to court of conspiring with "the enemy" and signed "Heil Hitler" on a legal document.

I guess I understand why, in Germany at least, this sort of shit falls under public incitement. Holocaust denial is fundamentally not a simple inquiry, but inherently carries an accusation. And by some coincidence it seems that almost all those who dabble in it have credible ulterior motives for making such accusations.

>>15248734
>Many here were simple scholars
Perhaps this can mislead, in that I did not mean most. Some would have been more accurate.
Germar Rudolf for example. He will likely be imprisoned again soon.
>When the first consequence of the UN resolution hit Castle Hill in early 2022, our then CEO Germar Rudolf predicted that he would expect...Rudolf's biggest weaknesses are that his application for naturalization to the United States was finally rejected in 2020 and that the German authorities have issued numerous arrest warrants against him for reasons that are still unknown. In view of around 80 new revisionist books or new editions of older books in German, which have been published under the leadership of Rudolf in the past ten years, it is easy to understand, why you want to lock him away. Although these German arrest warrants cannot be enforced in the United States due to the first addition to the US Constitution, Rudolf's German passport expired in 2019 and Germany refuses to issue him with a new one. His “ Green Card ” here in the USA expired in 2021, and the US authorities followed Germany's example and also refused to issue him a new card. You can get an idea. They try to lure him into a trap and then use the same dirty trick with him and his family as in 2005: arrest, deport, put him in a German dungeon and throw away the keys.
If you're wondering what that UN resolution was
>the United Nations General Assembly. January 2022 ratified a resolution tabled by Germany and Israel that urged all governments in the world to do everything possible to combat Holocaust denialism
Yes, I know many have national socialist sympathies, and many are also anti-semitic. This is not an argument. I could just as easily say the mainstream has an extreme anti-nazi and pro-jewish bias. What is the utility of pointing this out?

>>15248813
>What is the utility of pointing this out?
That global Jewish conspiracies are baked into their worldview already. It would be one thing if a historian came out and was like "I really couldn't believe it, I ran the numbers and there's a discrepancy, I triple-checked because the implications were so dire... as many as 10.000 holocaust victims may have been falsified! Perhaps even intentionally!"
But no it's always "RA RA IM A PROUD ARYAN AND WILL NEVER BOW TO THE JEWISH OPPRESSOR, HOLOCAUST IS FAKE, HEIL HITLER, LET ME INTO AUSCHWITZ, YOU'RE BEING LIED TO SHEEPLE"

>>15248369
Lol, you are beyond brainwashed. I commend the other guy for subjecting himself to your midwit deboonking as long as he has

>>15248813
And in the case of Rudolf, too, again, it turns out that others have in fact carried out the same research he has and criticised his work on methodological grounds. Not that the research was forbidden from being carried out. So again, holocaust denial requires an accusation of a cover-up. It's never simple inquiry and scholarship but always deeply ideologically entwined.

>>15248840
>zero arguments

Anyone genuinely interested in this topic should read through this fascinating article on its origin and development to the present day: https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

>>15248830
One doesn't have to believe in jewish conspiracies to be anti-semitic.
Where do you think antisemitism came from? It's universality? From the Arab world, to Russia to Spain, Germany, England etc. There's even a word for it.
To me, you just seem to a priori accept it as some strange delusion.
Like what Jew Dershowitz said
>How does one understand… the virulent anti-Jewish statements of intellectuals throughout history?...The answer to the question ‘why?’ probably lies more in the realm of abnormal psychology than in any rational attempts to find understandable cause in history, or economics. Anti-Semitism is a disease of the soul, and diseases are best diagnosed by examining those infected with them.

>>15248854
>One doesn't have to believe in jewish conspiracies to be anti-semitic.
And yet it seems to be highly correlated.
>Where do you think antisemitism came from? It's universality?
This is begging the question. Using anti-Semitism to justify anti-Semitism. Yes, we can indeed see where it came from, and in all the cases you mentioned, we see it's simply intolerance towards a religious minority. It's not like the Arab world and the Christian world themselves don't have a long history of mutual hatred.
>To me, you just seem to a priori accept it as some strange delusion.
Not a priori, no. After careful consideration.

>>15248865
>Not a priori, no. After careful consideration
OK, I will take your word for it.
Now please comment on the following things, given that you are familiar with them.

What are your thoughts on -- for example (true in practically any other country this happened) -- the German Revolution of 1919 where ethnic Jews -- despite being but 1% of the population -- were the majority of communist leaders who tried to overthrow the state?

What are your thoughts on Marxism traditionally being overwhelmingly Jewish?

What are your thoughts on the Frankfurt school, in which the first generation were all Jews, which brought about and/or spreadideologues like transgenderism (first transgeder doctor/suergon -- Hirschfield), sexual liberalism, communism, multiculturalism etc. Here is a positive take on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWqnnUeD6cw

What are your thoughts on the overwhelming Jewish representation in the media? Since you have thought about and research this, you know this is not some conspiracy theory. Hollywood, for example, has always been extremely Jewish. Don't take it from me
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html
Or pic rel (The Chosen People, Lynn 2011). In addition, surely even you would not deny that Jews are highly and extremely ethnocentric peoples (their very existence is evidence of this, as they have lived in other people's lands for thousands of years, never assimilating). Why do you think it is not an issue for a foreign people making up 1-2% of the population to have such massive influence in a host nation?

What are your thoughts on Jewish money making up about 50-75% of Democrat funding and donations, and about 25% of Republican. Let's remember again they are approximately 1-2% of the population.
https://rudermanfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Jewish-Vote-Ruderman-Program.pdf
Again this is clearly not some conspiracy.

Also comment if possible on neocons, and the huge Jewish role there.

>>15244460
Having been exposed to endless, daily, nonstop holocaust propaganda for their entire lives is why people tend towards those attitudes

>>15248937
>What are your thoughts on -- for example (true in practically any other country this happened) -- the German Revolution of 1919 where ethnic Jews -- despite being but 1% of the population -- were the majority of communist leaders who tried to overthrow the state?
I think it is only natural for marginalised people to align themselves with radical ideologies and also I highly approve of them.
>What are your thoughts on Marxism traditionally being overwhelmingly Jewish?
No thoughts in particular.
>What are your thoughts on the Frankfurt school
That their influence has been highly overstated by the conspiracy-minded.
>What are your thoughts on the overwhelming Jewish representation in the media?
None in particular.
etc. etc. look are you going anywhere with this?

>>15249013
You forgot the government and political stuff

>>15249013
>>15249019
Regardless. I didn't expect a real answer. At the very least you don't engage in denialism of clear-out in the open facts as many do.
Now, suppose you hold values that are not in agreement with these clear Jewish tendencies of what some would call subversion. It then follows they would hold opposition and animosity towards the group of people that push these ideologies. For example, supposing your country's media and culture not be controlled or massively influenced by a foreign people.
Hence an antisemitism that is free of any "religious intolerance" playing a casual role.

>>15249019
I didn't forget, it was just more of the same. That's what etc. means.

Okay, I will adress this part:
>Why do you think it is not an issue for a foreign people making up 1-2% of the population to have such massive influence in a host nation?
This is blatant bullshit. They are not a foreign people any more than any other American, save the natives. You want to talk bout being "unassimilated" as you yourself proudly go against academic consensus and all standards of decency. If anything, Nazis are the foreign invaders.

>>15244460
>Why is genocide bad
How is this /sci/ exactly? I get it, you're frustrated because society sucks nowdays, but maybe you should work on trying to fix it rather than being a self hating looser.

>>15249021
>Now, suppose you hold values that are not in agreement with these clear Jewish tendencies of what some would call subversion.
>Implying all Jews agree with each other or share an ideology
Your own post has Jews supporting liberalism, Marxism, conservatism and reaction. Beyond that there are even orthodox theocrats, and others were literally members of the Nazi party.
>For example, supposing your country's media and culture not be controlled or massively influenced by a foreign people.
Rupert Murdoch is not Jewish, is he?

>>15249037
>>Implying all Jews agree with each other or share an ideology
Nope. I did not imply that. I do not think Jews are a hivemind any more than blacks don't conspire together to commit homicide at a rate 10x higher than whites in white or formerly white countries.
I think their group behavior and [math] \textbf{tendencies} [/math] are emergent rather than conspiratorial behavior. A product of Jewish genetics and culture (and the feed back loop that exists, of course).
>Rupert Murdoch is not Jewish, is he?
Probably not, hence the "or massively influenced by a foreign people".

I'm surprised that weirdo came back after 5 nazis already completely dunked on him.

>>15249044
Look, friend, it's clear as fucking day that whatever you want to label "subversion" is bound to have many gentile supporters and many Jewish opponents. Whatever "tendency" you want to apply to it is incredibly tenuous and doesn't actually follow from your shoddy logic. Do people not have agency? Are they not able to agree with or reject ideas on their own, as indeed you do in spite of living in a "Jewish controlled" culture? Do you really think your culture would be pure and unadulterated apart from the "Jewish influence"? Do you think Greek antiquity, the Roman Empire, all of medieval Europe were "pure" cultures free of foreign influences?
Supposing a genetic tendency towards some ill-defined "subversion" is furthermore complete pseudo-science. Your entire explanation hangs together from assumptions. One after the other. You just throw so many out there you expect people to gloss over them.
>Probably not, hence the "or massively influenced by a foreign people".
Yeah, in case you weren't getting it, Murdoch IS the foreign people influences your media landscape. The Jews, insofar as they are influencing anything, aren't doing it as a foreign people.

And all this to say "there are some ideas in society I disagree with". You don't even need to bring Jews into it! That only completely muddies the subject!

>>15249049
Only on 4chan can you be surrounded by nazis raving about demons and go "the holocaust happened actually" and have people go "man what a weirdo"

>>15249049
It's funny that my experience with debating nazis on 4chan is essentially this:
>The more I debated with them the more familiar I became with their argumentative tactics. At the outset they counted upon the stupidity of their opponents, but when they got so entangled that they could not find
a way out they played the trick of acting as innocent simpletons. Should they fail, in spite of their tricks of logic, they acted as if they could not understand the counter arguments and bolted away to another field of discussion. They would lay down truisms and platitudes; and, if you accepted these, then they were applied to other problems and matters of an essentially different nature from the original theme. If you faced them with this point they would escape again, and you could not bring them to make any precise statement. Whenever one tried to get a firm grip on any of these apostles one's hand grasped only jelly and slime which slipped through the fingers and combined again into a solid mass a moment afterwards. If your adversary felt forced to give in to your argument, on account of the observers present, and if you then thought that at last you had gained ground, a surprise was in store for you on the following day. The nazi would be utterly oblivious to what had happened the day before, and he would start once again by repeating his former absurdities, as if nothing had happened. Should you become indignant and remind him of yesterday's defeat, he pretended astonishment and could not remember anything, except that on the previous day he had proved that his statements were correct. Sometimes I was dumbfounded. I do not know what amazed me the more--the abundance of their verbiage or the artful way in which they dressed up their falsehoods. I gradually came to hate them.

>>15249068
>Do people not have agency?
I don't think most people do. Most people are sub 100 IQ retards with 0 impulse control, and no understanding of what would be needed to understand to make informed judgement on, say, immigration policy.
Even among the more intelligent people, I have noticed agency being rather rare. In the sense that people take the default position AND defend it, while having done very little independent study, or knowing anything about it; in other words conformity triumphs.
>Are they not able to agree with or reject ideas on their own, as indeed you do in spite of living in a "Jewish controlled" culture?
I would really think this would be obvious with just a cursory glance at the outside world, and the population at large. This was also true before the "Jewish controlled" culture.
>Do you think Greek antiquity, the Roman Empire, all of medieval Europe were "pure" cultures free of foreign influences?
Srawman, of course not. The very idea is silly.
>Supposing a genetic tendency towards some ill-defined "subversion" is furthermore complete pseudo-science. Your entire explanation hangs together from assumptions.
Every single aspect of everything is going to be in part genetic. The explanation I laid out must be the case unless you think humans are independent of physical laws.
>Yeah, in case you weren't getting it, Murdoch IS the foreign people influences your media landscape. The Jews, insofar as they are influencing anything, aren't doing it as a foreign people.
In America this is now less obvious. There were very few Jews in America prior to the 20th century, which was overwhelmingly
WASP. They came in droves around that time, and quickly took over the aforementioned institutions, as they had already done so in various countries in Europe (again, this is not some conspiracy theory). They were a foreign people then. The same way the British were a foreign people in India despite ruling it for a century.

To reply to this point which I think was important
>Look, friend, it's clear as fucking day that whatever you want to label "subversion" is bound to have many gentile supporters and many Jewish opponents
Yes, it is true. Please stop using strawmans.
It is not purely the work of Jews, to use the black analogy, blacks are not the only ones that commit homicide; whites also commit violent crime, up to and including murder. But blacks do so at a massively disproportionate rate.

>>15249068
To reply to this point which I think was important
>Look, friend, it's clear as fucking day that whatever you want to label "subversion" is bound to have many gentile supporters and many Jewish opponents
Yes, it is true. Please stop using strawmans.
It is not purely the work of Jews, to use the black analogy, blacks are not the only ones that commit homicide; whites also commit violent crime, up to and including murder. But blacks do so at a massively disproportionate rate.

>>15249091
>I don't think most people do.
Right, you're the enlightened shepherd of mankind. You know best.
>I would really think this would be obvious with just a cursory glance at the outside world, and the population at large.
Just because people choose to disagree with you that doesn't mean they've been brainwashed to disagree with you.
>Srawman, of course not. The very idea is silly.
Well then, if you are aware that the process of cultural exchange has been going on for as long as there have been cultures, why is it only bad now, then? Again, it just comes down to you building a conspiracy theory around simply disagreeing with certain ideas in society.
>Every single aspect of everything is going to be in part genetic.
That's a moronic truism. You can't go from "genes exist and may predispose people towards certain behaviours" to "these people are all categorically genetically predisposed towards this very specific and yet somehow also nebulous course of action with seemingly nigh-mechanical consistency". You're describing incredibly complex social behaviour dependent on cultural institutions and a great deal of happenstance. The contribution of genes to this entire process is likely to be minimal.
> There were very few Jews in America prior to the 20th century, which was overwhelmingly WASP
There were very few WASPs in America before the 16th century. Will you call them foreigners? Actually, the political and cultural hegemony of WASPs in a pluralistic American society was, at one point, also criticised. But somehow that was possible without supposing weird pseudo-science about their WASPy nature.
>>15249109
Your issue is still with the ideas you disagree with and not with Jews. If I were an anti-feminist, for example, I might find that most of my opponents were women. But not all feminists are women and not all women are feminists. Therefore, to hate women would be a mistake (although in this scenario, statistically, I probably do hate women I guess).

>>15249091
Damn, you can just see the fascism crystallising from first principles here. You disagree with progressive ideas. You can't prevent them from becoming more popular with marginalised communities. So you find a scapegoat and accuse them of unfairly and nefariously influencing society with their unnatural ideas, subverting the supposed natural order and fair spread of ideas. Now you can say you need to protect society from them and from itself, so you make the former the enemy that needs to be destroyed, and curb the rights of the latter for its own good.

>>15249155
>Right, you're the enlightened shepherd of mankind. You know best.
Never said or implies that.
Also, another mistake is in assuming they are not already subject to another shepard. I think I have reasonably shown, without resorting to some baseless conspiratorial accusations, that this shepard has a rather large nose. Now, maybe YOU like this shepard (either out of being conditioned or just genuinely agreeing to it after expressing your agency), but it exists nonetheless.
>Just because people choose to disagree with you that doesn't mean they've been brainwashed to disagree with you.
Note I said this was true before the jews "took over" (please don't play semantics again, you know what I mean) all these institutions. You always have the majority adopting the dominant ideology/belief-system, and yes by the fact that they are on average. by definition, mediocre, unintelligent, and lacking agency, they were "brain-washed". Whether it was with something good and adaptive, or harmful and maladaptive
>Well then, if you are aware that the process of cultural exchange has been going on for as long as there have been cultures, why is it only bad now, then?
I don't think it's bad.
But this is not cultural exchange, this is cultural invasion and domination. These institutions are breaking down the prior existing civilization and culture, and deconstructing it, calling it evil, racist, supremacist, tearing down statues, names, and more importantly, values.
If 1 million Japanese went to Nigeria, they would assuredly
>Again, it just comes down to you building a conspiracy theory around simply disagreeing with certain ideas in society.
Which conspiracy theory? Nothing I have said with respect to this topic is conspiratorial.

>>15249190
>Never said or implies that.
You certainly did imply it. "Most" people have no agency (i.e. those who disagree with you). You do. You disagree with Jewish "subversion" because you know what's good for society, unlike them.
>Also, another mistake is in assuming they are not already subject to another shepard.
See, you really do fundamentally view people as sheep who need your help lest they be led astray.
>You always have the majority adopting the dominant ideology/belief-system, and yes by the fact that they are on average. by definition, mediocre, unintelligent, and lacking agency, they were "brain-washed". Whether it was with something good and adaptive, or harmful and maladaptive
So, again, your real issue is just with the ideas themselves.
>But this is not cultural exchange, this is cultural invasion and domination.
Bullshit. You have literally no way to make the distinction except with charged and downright false language. Again, the real issue is that you disagree with it.
>Nothing I have said with respect to this topic is conspiratorial.
Yes it is. "Invasion" and "domination" is the language of conspiracy. You have to cast it as nefarious, intentional, directed, and concerted action because otherwise, the only grounds on which you can condemn it is that you disagree with it.

>>15249155
>That's a moronic truism...You're describing incredibly complex social behaviour dependent on cultural institutions and a great deal of happenstance. The contribution of genes to this entire process is likely to be minimal.
Why don't you understand that everything is a product of physical laws? In a strict materialist sense the amazing complexity of a human society is at it's core the interplay of biological/genetic forces.
And also what better explanation do you have to this tendency that exists anywhere they go in mildly significant numbers, throughout history. I am getting tired of this analogy, but blacks are also disproportionately violent as a group wherever they go in representative numbers.
Finally, I know I started it, but it really doesn't matter where their behavioral tendencies come from. Whether it's genetics or something in the air I don't care. What is clear is are the observations and the implications.
>There were very few WASPs in America before the 16th century. Will you call them foreigners?
I really hate playing this semantic game, as you continue to do. You know what is meant. But I will answer anyway.
They were in foreign lands, conquered it, and built up a great country.
>Actually, the political and cultural hegemony of WASPs in a pluralistic American society was, at one point, also criticised. But somehow that was possible without supposing weird pseudo-science about their WASPy nature.
Can you reword this? I don't understand. If I am, then so what if criticism existed? I never claimed anyone or any group or nation to be hivemind.
>Your issue is still with the ideas you disagree with and not with Jews
Obviously not all Jews. I will reiterate that they are not a hivemind, though act dangerously close to one on occasion. They have congresses like the JWC, with explicit goals in pic related. Imagine if white people had such an organization. The media (hmm) would endlessly attack and censor it.

>>15249208
forgot pic rel. Also of course you have other organizations like the ADL. Imagine being so vile you need organizations and censorship to stop the "defamation" of your people.

>>15249204
>You certainly did imply it. "Most" people have no agency (i.e. those who disagree with you).
Nope, that is not what that means.
>You do. You disagree with Jewish "subversion" because you know what's good for society, unlike them.
Thinking I know better than most does not mean I am the enlightened shepard of mankind.
>See, you really do fundamentally view people as sheep who need your help lest they be led astray.
In a sense, yes.
>So, again, your real issue is just with the ideas themselves.
Yes. I am not criticizing the NPCs who have no agency. Leaders and followers, aristocracy, is as a general rule the default of nature.
>Bullshit. You have literally no way to make the distinction except with charged and downright false language. Again, the real issue is that you disagree with it.
In America it is less obvious now because of the massive demographic shifts, which have been harmful. But consider Germany 100 years ago. One can easily identify who is foreign and who is German.
>"Invasion" and "domination" is the language of conspiracy
No it's not. You're just redefining it to suit you. I am using negatively-loaded language because I dislike it. You are free to use the terms cultural enrichment and enlightening of the masses for all I care.

>>15244460
Eugenics got a bad rep after WWII because the Allies needed a post hoc ideological justification for the war. Hence muh heckin racism bad, eugenics bad. But ofc eugenics is perfectly reasonable considering that there is essentially no other selection atm and therefore eugenics is the only way to avoid the human genome getting entropy'd the fuck up.
As far as genocide goes, obviously that is objectionable lol

>>15244538
>Because anyone who believes genocide or eugenics is rational is an idiot
But you're not arguing against eugenics per se in your post only against particular eugenic notions.

>>15249208
>Why don't you understand that everything is a product of physical laws?
Again, you keep making the same error. "Everything is subject to physical laws, therefore, everything is subject to physical laws in precisely the way I say". But I guess you can't help making shitty arguments, it's in your genes after all.
>What is clear is are the observations and the implications.
Yes, the implication that ultimately you just disagree with certain ideas in society. I mean, if all that about behavioral tendencies doesn't matter, you can go one step further, and conclude that it also doesn't really matter who it's from.
>You know what is meant.
Do I? You seem to have a very idiosyncratic definition of "foreign".
>Can you reword this? I don't understand.
That America wasn't overwhelmingly WASP to begin with - there was a lot more cultural diversity in the 20th century. Irish, Dutch, German, Scandinavian, Italian, Jewish, of course, not to mention the Chinese and the Blacks and the Natives. WASPs were overrepresented in cultural and political institutions. And when this tendency was criticised it was done on the grounds that it wasn't representative. Not that they were foreign invaders with a natural tendency to subvert society.
>Imagine if white people had such an organization
Which white people? Pretty sure there are plenty of different white ethnicities with their own advocacy and heritage groups.
>Imagine being so vile you need organizations and censorship to stop the "defamation" of your people.
Putting the cart before the horse again. The defamation is justified by the defamation. At this point I'm inclined to just say nazis must've earned their reputation as illogical, evil bastards.

>>15249232
>Thinking I know better than most does not mean I am the enlightened shepard of mankind.
>See, you really do fundamentally view people as sheep who need your help lest they be led astray.
>In a sense, yes.
lol
>I am not criticizing the NPCs who have no agency
Convenient. So are Jews just natural-born leaders? Because if they're also just doing what comes natural, surely it would be silly to blame them?
>Leaders and followers, aristocracy, is as a general rule the default of nature.
Ah yes, aristocracy, the divine right of kings, feudal rule, another thing inscribed on our genes, I'm sure.
>consider Germany 100 years ago. One can easily identify who is foreign and who is German.
Not really, you can see a black chap who's fourth generation German and turn to the white guy next to you to complain about foreigners, only to be told in Polish that he doesn't speak German.
>No it's not. You're just redefining it to suit you.
This is blatant hypocrisy.
>I am using negatively-loaded language because I dislike it.
You're using inaccurate, charged, and deliberately misleading language because you dislike it.

>>15249268
>Again, you keep making the same error. "Everything is subject to physical laws, therefore, everything is subject to physical laws in precisely the way I say". But I guess you can't help making shitty arguments, it's in your genes after all.
You are the one making the incredible claim that in spire the constant observations on Jewish behavior, it is independent of a genetic tendency.
>Yes, the implication that ultimately you just disagree with certain ideas in society
The observations are clear. The implications vary depending on world view. There more precise.
>Do I? You seem to have a very idiosyncratic definition of "foreign".
No I don't. I used the Germany example for a reason.
>That America wasn't overwhelmingly WASP to begin with - there was a lot more cultural diversity in the 20th century. Irish, Dutch, German, Scandinavian, Italian
Sure, but this "cultural diversity" ends up being very similar, and the differences trivial compared to inter-racial ones. The non-
whites here made up a tiny minority outside of blacks.
>WASPs were overrepresented in cultural and political institutions
In their own country.
>Putting the cart before the horse again. The defamation is justified by the defamation. At this point I'm inclined to just say nazis must've earned their reputation as illogical, evil bastards.
You have not denied most of my claims about Jews (probably because you would look silly doing so). These things I have mention can cause a great deal of disdain from people that do not like these observations. Seeminlgy the only way to keep the Jewish people from being defamed is with entire organization and censorship laws.
Antisemitism was widespread far before le ebil nazis.

>>15249296
>the constant observations on Jewish behavior
You mean all those tenuous connections you charitably grouped under "subversion"?
>it is independent of a genetic tendency
I seriously don't see how you think genes can determine behaviour to such a massive extent.
>I used the Germany example for a reason.
It eludes me, then.
>Sure, but this "cultural diversity" ends up being very similar, and the differences trivial compared to inter-racial ones.
Jews are very similar to other whites. Especially the secular ones. Guess that's why they integrate so well.
>In their own country.
It's the country of all who live there. Including the American Jews.
>Seeminlgy the only way to keep the Jewish people from being defamed is with entire organization and censorship laws.
You know, defamation is by definition false. Are you knowingly spreading falsehoods about the Jews?
>Antisemitism was widespread far before le ebil nazis.
Yes, so? Too bad there is no organisation to keep nazis from being "defamed" huh? Because that would be the only thing that could stop it, widespread as it is. Must be for a reason. Imagine being so vile.

>>15249277
>lol
There is absolutely no contradiction there.
>Convenient. So are Jews just natural-born leaders?
I will humor this. They do seem to have a higher GFP.
>Because if they're also just doing what comes natural, surely it would be silly to blame them?
Just let the murderers murder bro.
>Ah yes, aristocracy, the divine right of kings, feudal rule, another thing inscribed on our genes, I'm sure.
When I used the word aristocracy I meant a hierarchy of power. I was obviously not taking about any of this. More strawmans, semantics etc.
>Not really, you can see a black chap who's fourth generation German and turn to the white guy next to you to complain about foreigners, only to be told in Polish that he doesn't speak German.
You're just causing mental exhaustion on my part. I won't even bother to respond to this idiocy.
>This is blatant hypocrisy.
How? Or else explain where was my accusation of a conspiracy. I literally explicitly said I consider it to be mostly emergent and not conspiratorial behavior.
>You're using inaccurate, charged, and deliberately misleading language because you dislike it.
More semantics. That's all you do.

I am genuinely just tired now.
I will summarize. You originally claimed antisemitism was just some bizzare religious intolerance towards a super wonderful minority (yes I know you did not use the term super wonderful, try not to fixate on this). I then explained their massive disproportionate role in government, media, and in certain movements. Which is really remarkably large for such a small population.
You could not reject this, and then said "not all jews".
But the point was, antisemitism arises from non-religious or non-conspiracy-accusation causes. This is a fact (Or tell me more about the religious intolerance of Schopenhauer or Kant).

>>15249309
>You mean all those tenuous connections you charitably grouped under "subversion"?
I really don't care to spell it out for you. Whatever was said here applies to nearly all countries of which they reside(ed) in significant numbers.
>I seriously don't see how you think genes can determine behaviour to such a massive extent.
It literally determines everything. It's why a lion behaves like a lion and a tiger like a tiger etc.
>Jews are very similar to other whites
No they are not. I don't care to spell out for you the major differences. But for example Jews are far more ethnocentric and at the same time somehow more liberal. Except in Israel of course.
They can definitely do aggressive mimicry if that's what you're referring to.
>It's the country of all who live there. Including the American Jews.
I will use the term nation now to avoid confusion. Nation is tied to a people, a race, a shared genetics cultural heritage. There no more confusion.
>You know, defamation is by definition false. Are you knowingly spreading falsehoods about the Jews?
I should have used more precise language, as that is a definition of defamation. I will just say from being hated as a group.
>Yes, so? Too bad there is no organisation to keep nazis from being "defamed" huh? Because that would be the only thing that could stop it, widespread as it is. Must be for a reason. Imagine being so vile.
Yeah cause "nazis" are the ones running everything. Such a shitty comparison.

>>15249319
>There is absolutely no contradiction there.
M8 you're constantly contradicting yourself.
>Just let the murderers murder bro.
This coming from those supporting the actual murderers. And yet, if people are blameless for being followers, and if we are all slaves to our genes in everything we do, how can we really hold anyone culpable?
>More strawmans, semantics etc.
The word is "strawmen". And if you don't want to be misunderstood, maybe use the right fucking word for once. You keep going back saying "no no that's not what I meant" when it's entirely unclear what you supposedly meant instead.
>I won't even bother to respond to this idiocy.
Sure, concede the rest too while you're at it, I'm off to bed after this anyway.
>How?
Because you keep redefining words, genius.
>More semantics.
If you didn't think charged language mattered, you wouldn't be deliberately going for less accurate but more emotionally charged terms.

>You originally claimed antisemitism was just some bizzare religious intolerance towards a super wonderful minority
I said that the historical spread of anti-Semitism in your example could be explained in this way.
>(yes I know you did not use the term super wonderful, try not to fixate on this)
You love to argue so much you're now arguing with yourself after giving yourself reasons to argue.
>I then explained their massive disproportionate role in government, media, and in certain movements.
Which, indeed, had nothing to do with your historical examples.
>Which is really remarkably large for such a small population.
I think there's a few steps missing between this and your irrational hatred.
>antisemitism arises from non-religious or non-conspiracy-accusation causes
I hardly consider that proven at this point.

>>15249341
>It literally determines everything.
Just to add, if genes determine everything, why bother to argue? You'll never convince anyone.
>aggressive mimicry
introducing more psuedo-scientific bullshit late into the argument
>Yeah cause "nazis" are the ones running everything.
Way to miss the point lol

Yeah I'm out

>>15244473
The man with the pie could’ve prevented so much trouble if it had been more than a pie

>>15244460
Everyone loves the idea of improving the gene pool by killing people... until it is their turn to be killed.

>>15246018
>we would genicide them reeeee!!!!1!1!1!1!
No, just abolish the practice of lending money at interest, like Hitler did. It worked too.

>>15249384
Why not just go the extra mile and forgive debts ;)

>>15249347
>M8 you're constantly contradicting yourself.
Point it out. I am certainly not aware.
>This...culpable?
Political discussions don't make much sense in the context of determinism. I am not currently arguing for a determinism. Environmental influences at at play. As well as basic variation. And under the assumption of free will as well.
>The word is "strawmen"
Yep you're right
>. And if you don't want to be misunderstood, maybe use the right fucking word for once. You keep going back saying "no no that's not what I meant" when it's entirely unclear what you supposedly meant instead.
It's no different than you >>15246414
above saying
>"Being invaded" is hyperbolic emotional language
>Because you keep redefining words, genius.
Where. You still did not explain my conspiracy accusation btw, where you literally did change the definition of conspiracy.
>If you didn't think charged language mattered
above
>You love to argue so much you're now arguing with yourself after giving yourself reasons to argue.
nothing said here
>Which, indeed, had nothing to do with your historical examples.
addressed later
>I think there's a few steps missing between this and your irrational hatred.
No there isn't.
>I hardly consider that proven at this point.
Then you are just dumb. Do you think the Germans were just irrational jew-haters because of religious intolerance? Picked them at random? You may not agree with the reasoning but, the reasoning is there ffs.
>Just to add, if genes determine everything, why bother to argue? You'll never convince anyone.
What I said is incorrect. I meant influence. Obviously environment plays a role too.
>introducing more psuedo-scientific bullshit late into the argument
just humor

As for the accusations I said in "addressed later" I will give you some excepts from notable people throughout history who were just racist intolerant bigots.

>>15249406
>“plague infesting the whole world” (Claudius); “accursed race” (Seneca); “hatred of mankind” (Tacitus); “a den of devils” (Luther); “a republic of cunning usurers” (Herder); “cringing in misfortune, insolent in prosperity” (Voltaire); “borrow with deceit, and repay confidence with theft” (Hegel); “prosperous parasites” (Ross); “plastic demons of decay” (Wagner); “planetary master criminals” (Heidegger). “the root of all evil, as far as my personal life is concerned… are Jews.” (John Nash).
>Kant: "The Palestinians [Jews], living among us, or at least the greatest number of them, have, through their usurious spirit since their exile, received the not-unfounded reputation of deceivers. It seems strange to think of a nation of deceivers; but it is just as strange to think of a nation made up of nothing but merchants, which are united for the most part by an old superstition that is recognized by the government under which they live. They do not seek any civil honor, but rather wish to compensate their loss by profitably outwitting the very people among whom they find protection, and even to make profit from their own kind. It cannot be otherwise with a whole nation of merchants, who are nonproductive members of society"
>Nietzsche: "they had a more profound contempt for the human being in themselves than any other people"
>Schopenhauer: Till then, it lives parasitically on other nations and their soil; but yet it is inspired with the liveliest patriotism for its own nation. This is seen in the very firm way in which Jews stick together… and no community on earth sticks so firmly together as does this. It follows that it is absurd to want to concede to them a share in the government or administration of any country.
>Voltaire: “[The Jews] are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race”

>>15249085
it's almost like Nazis are a jewish psyop

>>15244538
You don't seem to understand that humans have taken evolution into their own hands for a long time. We've selected for domesticated animal breeds for millennia and done the same with crops like wheat. In modern times, we use genetic engineering to directly control what genes we want.
Indeed, there is such a thing as 'good genes.'
Of course, every strength can also be a weakness in certain situations. A diverse population also has the advantage of being less likely to be wiped out (See the issue of clonal banana populations and disease).
But overall, we will see the rise of eugenics under different branding because it has been something humans have engaged in for thousands of years to great effect. Just get ready for when sickle cell disease and cystic fibrosis are cured thanks to eugenics-inspired ideas and cry about how irrational it is.

>>15247082
The best resources for the revisionist side are found here
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1
Often a documentary suggested is
https://odysee.com/@revisionary:b/One-Third-of-the-Holocaust-Dean-Irebodd:2
Also found on the website
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=1001
The revisionist forum this is discussed in
https://forum.codoh.com/index.php
And a small site that I have found to be of good quality that essentially summarizes certain arguments from the holocausthandbooks series is found here
https://www.holocaust.claims/
Good luck fren

>>15244476
>Why do you hate mass murders so much?

>>15244460
Because the modern urbanite has conflated subjectivism with objectivism and they base their behavior off of feelings while convincing themselves it's actually critical thinking driving the behaviors.

>>15251999
And of course, it would be unfair to not display the opposite side
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_and_documentation_for_the_Holocaust
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/evidence-from-the-holocaust
Here is a wonderful documentary on Treblinka
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfEPvGnhgTg
where Caroline tries to find evidence of mass graves by digging about a kilometer south of the Treblinka I camp (work camp), in a pre-WW2 cementery, and finds some...bones. Then a Treblinka survivor explains some story about an inmate being chopped with an axe or something by the Germans.
They then find dig around closer to the actual camp (which is covered in concrete and stones of course) trying to find evidence of gas chambers and they find a piece of polish pottery with a star on it. And some pots and pans. Also a shark tooth from the Plasticine era fwiw.
As they themselves admitted in the documentary, the Germans were just so good at hiding the evidence that there is none left.

>>15244460
Science proved eugenics is extremely ineffective. Germany today has the same rate of genetic defects as before the purge of the 40s. Eugenics only works over the course of 1000s of years. Also go back to /pol/.

>>15244460
Because genocide is nigger behavior, and eugenics is unnecessary. What's the point of sterilizing a retard when nobody wants to breed with one anyway? Maybe eugenics could be subsidized to encourage people with no serious hereditary diseases to copulate more and have children and that can of course be dressed in a more ethical way as way to both improve public health as well as the economy.

>>15244538
That's a lot of words to say you're mad about being a brown/brown/brown shitskin.

>>15246532
Yeah, traitors die first. Being a saboteur is not being a "dissenter."