/sci/ - Science & Math

>energy department
So this is considered a trustworthy source nowadays? Sigh.

>>15232004
Trust the expert CHUD.

looks like the strategy of blindly trusting 'knowledge authority' and 'social media experts' with no data or evidence is still braindead retarded
>>15232004
more trustworthy than the new york times

>>15232004
Because the CDC and other health agencies destroyed their credibility.
>The Energy Department’s conclusion is the result of new intelligence and is significant because the agency has considerable scientific expertise and oversees a network of U.S. national laboratories, some of which conduct advanced biological research.
>The new report highlights how different parts of the intelligence community have arrived at disparate judgments about the pandemic’s origin. The Energy Department now joins the Federal Bureau of Investigation in saying the virus likely spread via a mishap at a Chinese laboratory. Four other agencies, along with a national intelligence panel, still judge that it was likely the result of a natural transmission, and two are undecided.
>The FBI employs a cadre of microbiologists, immunologists and other scientists and is supported by the National Bioforensic Analysis Center, which was established at Fort Detrick, Md., in 2004 to analyze anthrax and other possible biological threats.
>U.S. officials declined to give details on the fresh intelligence and analysis that led the Energy Department to change its position. They added that while the Energy Department and the FBI each say an unintended lab leak is most likely, they arrived at those conclusions for different reasons.

all scientists should be culled

>>15231975
>Whats next?
The COVID psy-op has backfired and undermined their control. The attempt to unite the population against Russia has failed. The next step is to try to unite the population against China under a pretext that would appeal to the people who proposed the "China conspiracy theory" in the first place. It's completely transparent.

https://www.energy.gov/biological-science
Think they research how algae farts can be used as fuel.

>>15232025

>The COVID psy-op has backfired and undermined their control. The attempt to unite the population against Russia has failed.

Bingo ... :D

>>15232004
i know you're trolling, but DoE has its own intelligence agency.

>>15232190
So? Since when do we troost government bodies? :^)

>>15231975
Intentional manufacture and release =/= "a leak"

Engineers hang fellow scientists at break neck speed.

Not according to Dr. Klotman

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tpEFFkAn_O4

>>15231975
>US Energy Department
This does not prove that COVID was a lab leak, retard. This is just the opinion of someone at the Department of Energy. That doesn't make it true or correct. The Department of Energy isn't even tasked with handling public health policy or science or defense. That would be NIH or DoD. If the NIH or DoD starts making claims about a possible lab leak, then that might really be something, but at this point, it's all just hearsay and speculation, and I wouldn't put a lot of weight on the opinion of the Department of Energy.

Also, keep in mind that the Department of Energy has a lot fossil fuel and oil industry lobbyists, and these sorts of groups are not really the most reliable when it comes to scientific issues or anything related to Russia or China, since the Big Oil and the oil lobby have an incentive to (1) lie about science and downplay the reliability of modern science, especially climate science, and (2) they also have geopolitical and economic interests that align them with Russia, China, OPEC, and other non-western oil producing economies.

Pic rel. Oil Lobby is one of the largest in America, and they have a lot of ties in thee Department of Energy and the GOP.

>>15231975
It wasn't a conspiracy, because the conspiracy was that it was a bioweapon from China's bioweapon program. The lab leak is from China's research system. Those are very different situations.

>>15232524
>the conspiracy was that it was a bioweapon from China's bioweapon program. The lab leak is from China's research system. Those are very different situations.
Unbelievable stuff.

>>15232524
>ummmmm, sweaty?
>the conspiracy theorists said COVID was released on purpose by the Mutating Pathogens for Bad Intentions(tm) lab in China
>but ackchually...
>COVID was released by an oopsie by the Mutating Pathogens for Good Intentions(tm) lab in China
>chuds deboonked once again

>>15232524
>ummmmm, sweaty?
>conspiracy theorists said COVID came from the Bad Intentions branch of the Mutating Pathogens on Purpose program in China
>but ackchually...
>it came from the Good Intentions branch of the Mutating Pathogens on Purpose program in China
>they also said it was on purpose but the government says it was just a big oopsie
>chuds deboonked once again

>>15232524
why did the lefties spend the last 4 years teaching everyone the definition of gaslighting if they use it as their go-to deflection?

>>15232524
KEK

Lefties are literal clockwork bots.

You'd have to be an idiot to believe thi...
>Americans
Oh, wait.

>>15232572
Ok, Chang.

>>15232578
I would think it's far more embarrassing for the average Chang if the world believes it really came from a bunch of third worlders eating bat soup, vs sloppy lab practices while doing gain of function research paid for by Americans.

>>15232587
Ok, Chang. You are clearly above average since you know some rudimentary English.

>>15232507
literally just making shit up lel

DoE does a huge amount of biology research.
The Department of Energy created the Human Genome project.

>>15232004
DoE is often referred to by knowers as the Department of Everything - they are only slightly joking

>>15231975
>falling for an obvious PSYOP
covid doesn't exist, faggot

>>15232606
You're just repying to a retarded leftist bot lol.

>>15231975
This is a clickbait article, the actual report says the Energy Department has low confidence that it was a lab leak, even if they think it’s the most likely

>>15231975
viruses don't exist.

>>15232556
Because it was teaching them how to do it.

>>15232018
In the meantime, the WHO has stopped looking into SARS-CoV-2's origins, ostensibly because China wasn't being cooperative. Who knew an investigation could be halted just be being difficult?

>>15232524
What a crock of shit. All the way back to February, 2020, a narrative had been created to fight any possibility that the virus came from a Chinese lab.

https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-strongly-condemn-rumors-and-conspiracy-theories-about-origin-coronavirus

>>15233070
>We think it came from a lab leak but our confidence in our statement is low
isn't the same things as
>We have low confidence that this came from a lab leak
>>15233150
Back then Orange Man Bad was calling it the China Virus so by the IFLS! Law of Opposites, it couldn't have come from China. Now that Orange Man Bad is out of office, the reality can shift, especially now that China is being friendly with Russia.

>The bioweapon with a 99% survival rate
This is a CIA psyop so retard wannabe conspiracies theorists won't realize that there is no proof of covid existing

>>15233298
You appear to be severely braindamaged.

>>15233308
There is no covid faggot

>>15231975
oh, they resumed to pay you for this

>>15231975
>>15232004

None of you retards care, but the WSJ is completely lying to support its political allies and benefactors here. The Department of Energy made this statement with "Low Confidence," i.e. in intel speak "worthless," and it's dubious to claim the DoE has any credibility here, especially while the majority of actual intelligence and health-related IC groups in the US say its natural spillover.

>>15232004
government is lying faggot always and everywhere

>>15233070
I don't know why these random departments with no relation to the issue are making hay out of null-conclusions that add nothing-- unless... unless it's a political issue that has nothing to do with the underlying science! but-- no that couldn't happen.

>>15232551
Your silly bioweapon science fiction theory has already bee debunked by the lack of evidence of your virus

>>15232240
Why would you manufacture a virus with a 99% survival rate?

>>15231975
>So Covid was a lab leak.
Everyone with a brain knew that by early 2020.

Everyone who listened to REAL NEWS and not fake news, had confirmation of that fact by March 2020.

>>15233567
You mean by the fact that is not alllowed by international law meaning they didn't do it?

Say whatever shill shit you wish we know the truth, you people made shitty simulations and harbored shitty results while the power shitheads wasted our money on shitty farmaceutical products, again

>>15232240
>Intentional manufacture and release =/= "a leak"
This.
It was on purpose.

>>15233592
>Why would you manufacture a virus with a 99% survival rate?
Fear. You cannot control a virus, so it WILL infect your own people, so you don't want it to be really dangerous.
So the media/government must be complicit and work together to push the fear porn.

That's why any actual truthful information was censored by big-tech/big-government and called "disinformation".

>>15233341
Your ignorance of what DoE labs do and getting hung up on the name of the agency instead of doing a few minutes of research to learn that the DoE is involved in the detection of WMDs, including bioweapons, doesn't make their report political. However, whoever leaked it may have had political motives but there's no way of really knowing.

Forbes published an article today with a timeline of how we got from lab leak being a /x/ tier conspiracy theory to being recognized as possible by multiple federal agencies: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/02/26/timeline-how-the-covid-lab-leak-origin-story-went-from-conspiracy-theory-to-government-debate/?sh=1ac8b39937b9
It's a good refresher for those who have gaslighted themselves.

>>15233290
>Back then Orange Man Bad was calling it the China Virus so by the IFLS! Law of Opposites
I think Trump was too vocal about certain things, and because he was hated, the media and other politicians had to take the opposite stance even when it was the wrong stance. Maybe not "had to," they chose to. He was also vocal about HCQ, although the benefit of HCQ and IVM had to be suppressed regardless of Trump's stance because they would have prevent the vaccines from getting Emergency Use Authorization.

>>15233628
Heres another article from Forbes, its about how the WHO fakes viral epidemics and gets away with it

>>15233655
WHO = yet another alphabet-agency enemy of the people.

>>15233334
The DofE had low confidence of a lab leak, the FBI had moderate confidence. Four other agencies have low confidence in a natural origin. I feel like your post was just as slanted as the WSJ title.

>>15232004
DOE has time travel capability, according to QAnon.

>>15233601
>You mean by the fact that is not alllowed by international law meaning they didn't do it?
I did not mean that and I have no idea how you derived that from my post. I am either talking to a bot or you are one of those "smart" conspiracy theory midwits who repeat one liners about how the government is bad and does bad things. Yes, we all know the gov breaks its own laws. You are not smart.

>>15233603
All of this is completely achievable without creating a virus in the first place, which they did. It looks like you're trying pretty hard to justify your bioweapon theory.

>>15232004

>>15235271
There's no covid, faggot.

>>15231975
>>15232004
>>15232018
>>15232240
>>15232507
>>15232524
>>15232527
the actual conspiracy is that there was never a virus. this was just a play of words in mass media. it never existed.

why is the /sci/ board the dumbest and most gullible on this whole board?

>>15235277
You won't get through to them. The bioweapon retards are currently trying to justify the energy department's authority on virology simply because it's repeating their psyop.

>>15235279
All they need

A justification after all they have the appearance of authority

>>15235277
>there was never a virus.
Well, except for the virus.

>>15235316
There is no covid, shill

>>15235351
But there is a virus.

OP doesn't even understand what a 'conspiracy' is.
Posts shit about 'conspiracy'
No sauce, weird shit instead.

>>15235363
I mean, the mainstream media is admitting the lab leak theory has gone from conspiracy (which is primarily used by the media as some outrageous idea that only idiots would believe) to plausible.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/02/26/timeline-how-the-covid-lab-leak-origin-story-went-from-conspiracy-theory-to-government-debate/

Coincidence that the MSM is pushing this now that China supposedly -may- supply Russia with shitty drones? And then you read the article and it says "low confidence". Toplol

>>15232004
This isn’t a roleplaying board stop posting like you’re fucking roleplaying with somebody

>>15235401
>"low confidence"
The agencies that went with natural origin also have low confidence.

>>15235468
True, the only assessment that isn't "low confidence" is the FBI's medium confidence assessment that it came from a lab. The other four agencies that stated opinions have low confidence that it was of natural origins and the rest say they don't have enough information to form an opinion.
>>15235401
Probably not a coincidence at all but sometimes revealing a truth can be done for more reasons than a sudden crisis of conscience. If the government has known all along that it was a lab leak and only now is revealing the truth, we certainly should be mindful of the government's goal in doing so while also making use of the new information.

>>15235499
Makes me wonder what the FBI has that makes them more certain about a lab leak. So far as I know, the WSJ article is the first time we've heard about the FBI's opinion.

>>15235277
>>15231975
Yeah it's hilarious as this is what /pol/ and /x/ knew and were proving back in early 2020 already with Ralph Baric and others.

Now, /sci/, the subhuman reditor board starts regurgitating this shit after it's public on """trusted""" media, kek. /sci/ is a fucking shithole, pretty much just an extension of redit nowadays. Literally "trust the science" kek.

>>15235372
Has gone from conspiracy theory to a plausible conspiracy. The Chinese conspiring to keep the lableak hidden. But i don't know why DoE considering the lab leak most likely with low confidence would warrant articles. I guess in conjunction with the FBI assessment.

>>15235604
For the same reason we were inundated with articles when someone concluded it was of natural origin.

>>15235516
/pol/ thought covid causes you to have spasms and die on the street, /x/ always thought it was never real.

>>15235682
They are both mentally ill schizos.

The reason we had this large pandemic was because of the military industrial complex and national security interests.

If you go to big cities you can see what I mean: vaccination centers strategically distributed across the city, DARPA funded mRNA vaccines, social distancing lines, continued restrictions for not wearing masks, working from home etc. keep in mind none of this was normative before Covid happened for any other major disease. This is basically a collaborative security operation by many governments and non-state actors to prepare and fight back against a possible real bio-weapon that could kill billions of it ever happens by terrorism or a big war.

>>15235697
Actual demoralization narrative lmao. "It was for your own goooooood!"

^ continued:

Look into the movie Contagion from 2011, not only did the virus come from bats, it comes from east Asia, it’s a sociological analysis movie on the implications of a pandemic such as: disinformation, rioting, supply chain issues for medicine and dead bodies.. sound familiar?

It’s a practice drill.

>>15235716
When did I ever say it was good though? You are just trying to feel in control of the world around you, which is why you talk about this schizo retarded shit like “COVID WAS NEVER REAL ITS A PSYOP BY THE ELITES WHO SOMEHOW WANT THE ECONOMY TO SLOW DOWN AND MAKE THEM LOSE MONEY”

>>15235735
It can be real and a psyop, which it is. The lockdowns were the largest wealth transfer from the bottom 90% to the top 1% of society in human history BTW.

>>15235697
>Thinking a fake virus isn't real makes you a mentally ill schizo

>>15235740
No doubt in my mind that elites like Bezos and Gates were in on it. They already lobby a lot of policies at the pentagon and have government contracts. My point is there needs to be a good reason to halt the world just so a bunch of rich guys get richer. It most certainly is tied to national security as I already have explained and it seems to be the most explainable from what I’ve seen

>>15235751
Maybe it is, but maybe it isn’t either, after all deadly pathogens are frequent and better explainable than being a myth

>>15235770
There is no evidence of "covid" ever being pandemic anywhere, all alleged photographs of "covid" are identical to other coronaviruses, any alleged genome sequencings of "covid" are created on a computer, all cases of "covid" can be explained as the tests identifying the flu and the common cold as "covid" as they are proven to do. It is a lie, and always was.

>>15235516
What a stupid thing to say.
What about all the other conspiracy theories like "muh stolen election" and "Jewish Space Lasers?
/Pol (maybe) gets one thing right, and all of a sudden /sci is "reddit!"

The difference to note here is that /sci, when confronted with new evidence, changes the story, while /pol when confronted with ANY evidence denies and deflects.

Maybe you should stay away from the SFW boards, altogether.

>>15232196
when they agree with us we do

>>15231975
So much dangerous gain of function, that the Koch postulates still weren't validated, and that moratlity rates in most countries during 2020 was at a record low.
The hyper dangerous virus, which contagion was never proven.

>>15235800
>all cases of "covid" can be explained as the tests identifying the flu and the common cold as "covid"
People keep saying this. There's specific antigens that they're looking for. For the rapid antigen tests, the antibodies that are used to bind to SARS-CoV-2's nucleocapsid won't bind to influenza. For the PCR, they're looking at the genomic sequence, specifically they're looking for three parts of the virus. Omicron's spike protein mutated enough that the PCR couldn't detect it, which was known as S-drop, but it still detected the nucleocapsid and RBD. People still had the flu and not COVID-19, and vice versa, over the last few years.

>>15235919
It took a year for admittance that PCR was detected the flu as covid so there is no reason to assume the other tests don't.

>>15235939
>It took a year for admittance that PCR was detected the flu as covid
If you're thinking of what I think you are, a statement from the CDC, they were indicating they were creating a test to detect both influenza and SARS-CoV-2, which made the PCR for only SARS-CoV-2 obsolete. Even if you think the PCR is flawed, antigen tests work via another mechanism.

>>15232004
They helped start the human genome project
>In May 1985, Robert Sinsheimer organized a workshop at the University of California, Santa Cruz, to discuss the feasibility of building a systematic reference genome using gene sequencing technologies.[10] In March 1986, the Santa Fe Workshop was organized by Charles DeLisi and David Smith of the Department of Energy's Office of Health and Environmental Research (OHER).[11] At the same
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genome_Project

>>15235944
I believe that PCR tests find positive for flu and call that covid. They denied it can do that.

>>15235800
>there is no evidence
>the evidence is fake
pick one

>>15232004
I worked for DOE and interviewed for a job in the intelligence shop. It is decently well respected, but its main focus, at least back when I was interviewing , was nuclear threats (I worked on nuclear weapons infrastructure).

The State Department also has one of the best regarded shops, but these are also smaller and have less by way of resources than the FBI or CIA.

DESU, I would find it much more convincing if it came from SIGINT, capturing the Chinese discussing it themselves, which is more likely to be something other IC members would find.

I don't think the public really understands how assessments work. You are working all your data into a model and weighting it. You consider how much it supports a conclusion or premise, and also how confident you are.

Low confidence assessments mean "with all the data we have, this seems the most likely case, but we are not very sure about it."


I would actually doubt this one more because the issue they are trying to solve is not ideal for the methods. We normally look at "did human organization do X or did Y," or "who in organization X did Z." Questions about human organizations and intentions are the focus and the tools intelligence agencies have are very much geared towards that sort of thing.

But here the question is: "did a virus naturally evolve or did organization X do Y."

A virus mutating in the wild creates no paper trail. It creates no chatter, no electronic metadata. No one wanting to seem influential lies about being responsible for natural evolution, no one wanting to point a finger points a finger at nature. No one who is scared of being held responsible for something tries to cover shit up for nature, something people do without even knowing if their faction really are responsible.

Basically, data for the leak hypothesis will inevitably exist that won't exist for the nature hypothesis.

>>15236009
If the lab leak hypothesis was true, it's quite possible the Chinese government doesn't know about it. It's the kind of thing people would want to cover up. But it's also the type of thing people in an authoritarian country might try to cover up even if they didn't think they were actually responsible.


So even if an agency has low confidence in some braggard talking to US sources about having helped make the virus or cover up the lab leak, or if such a claim was caught on signals interception, it's still going to have some weight in the model. But none one is going to say "I helped mutate a virus in the wild," because that makes no sense. There won't even be low confidence data sources on that effect.

Same thing with evidence of a cover up. Well nature doesn't cover itself up, it is just so big and messy you can't find data you need in it. So that can't count as a positive signal.

I will be very interested to see, when this is finally unclassified decades from now, how they address this problem. It is really unique in many ways.

>>15236006
Those aren't contradictory, there isn't evidence for the virus being found all over the world

>>15236009
>A virus mutating in the wild creates no paper trail. It creates no chatter, no electronic metadata.
They isolated the animal sources for both MERS and SARS. The best they can do for SARS-CoV-2 is "well maybe a bat had sex with a pangolin or something." It also didn't help that China went in and cleaned everything while blocking WHO officials from entering the country.

>it wasnt a conspiracy
Inherently the idea of a lab leak is not a conspiracy. Obviously you need more proof other then
>there is a lab in a place where a disease started
Which was all the proof there was.
>so covid was a lableak
According to a tweet yes. You live in a information sewage. Whenever some retard says something that conforms with your beliefs you take it whole hearted without thinking. Did you click the article? Did you read the supposed classified report? No. Did you just let retards shit down into your sewage and you wait there with you mouth open smiling eating their shit. Yes. You are a sheep to literal random internet retards spreading low effort misinformation. This goes for a lot of people right or left beliving mainstream or alternative facts that dont reflect the real world. Never thinking or confirming anything you read. You call people who follow mainstream sources sheep when you are sheep in a different flock. Kill yourself before you continue the trend of spreading low effort misinformation to more retards.

>>15236038
>Inherently the idea of a lab leak is not a conspiracy.
Why was it labeled a conspiracy by the press?

>>15236047
I said inherently its not. It could be a conspiracy. For example, lets say i think lizard people control the world. My proof of this is because justin bieber blinked and his eyes kind of looked reptillian for 2 seconds on a glitchy video stream.
If my proof of a lab leak is there is a lab in wuhan china (when there is microbiology labs literally everywhere. Probably at your local state university) and this lab was given some sort of grant one time by a foundation owned by billgates. This is a conspiracy.

>>15236032
>They isolated the animal sources for both MERS and SARS
Did they?

>>15236032
>They isolated the animal sources for both MERS and SARS.
They isolated ribosomic RNA.

>>15231975
Ecohealth GOF research + Metabiota + MODERNA patented sequences in the SARS COV 2 genoma

>>15235236
>bioweapon theory.
Is a fact, not a "theory" anymore than "gravity theory" is a theory. Or do you not believe in gravity either oh Flat-Earther Democrat?

>>15236070
>lab in wuhan china (when there is microbiology labs literally everywhere.
There is only one Level 4 bio-research lab in all of China, built in 2015, with money from Harvard/USA Government/Obama/Fauci

>>15235961
>I believe that PCR tests find positive for flu and call that covid.
This DOES happen.

>>15236009
>I worked for DOE and interviewed for a job in the intelligence shop.
kek, no you did not.

>>15236243
Ecohealth investigated themselves and decided they did nothing wrong. That's good enough for me!

>>15235852
Neither /sci/ nor /pol/ nor any other board with the possible exception of /r9k/, is a single individual. Not sure why there are people like you who continue to act as if everyone on a board is a collective borg hivemind. There are tendencies but even within those there the a wide magnitude of opinions. Sounds like you're engaging in othering to shore up your own weak opinions.

>>15233022
The zodiac killer strikes again

>>15236725
>>15236725
kek
trust the science!

>>15236725
would be a shame if someone peer reviewed it

>>15232021
Stone Age or bust

>>15232527
Bruh that was the conspiracy from the beginning. Michael Morel even had a guy who argued this point on his podcast a year ago.

>>15233322
Fuck off ESL