/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15191973
is this a fake headline? palestine is across the world from that event

>>15191996
There is an East Palestine in Ohio and the headline is real.

>>15191973

>>15191973
>Letting vinyl chloride sit,
>or having acid rain which can spread far away and which precipitation can burn agriculture, destroy buildings, poison rivers/lakes, kill fish, and also poison the water supply?
it's just a little harmless vinyl chloride mate, what's the worst it could do?

>>15191999
ohio go wild bruh fr

>>15191973
Good. Gas the journoshills, then after they've finished rounding up the journalists gas the police too.

>>15191973
I’ve heard two stories: one, to avoid an explosion; and two, to stop some way nastier form of oxygen-free combustion that was going on. Could be both or neither.

>>15192159
>avoid an explosion

lol

>>15191973
>Letting vinyl chloride sit,
vinyl chloride boils at -15C, it doesn't sit very well

>>15191973
>So which is more dangerous?
>Letting vinyl chloride sit
>Having acid rain which can spread far away and which precipitation can burn agriculture, destroy buildings, poison rivers/lakes, kill fish, and also poison the water supply?

The cost the company would have to pay to clean it up would be far to much. Who needs an environment when you have money?

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

But they don't want you to watch it on the news.

>>15191973
ACGIH: The threshold limit value (TLV) is 1 ppm averaged over an 8-hour workshift. Vinyl Chloride is a CARCINOGEN in humans.

HCL: The recommended airborne exposure limit (REL) is 5 ppm, which should not be exceeded at any time. ACGIH: The threshold limit value (TLV) is 2 ppm, which should not be exceeded at any time.

So on the surface, its pretty much the same as to which gas poisons you. . However, the real point isnt which is more toxic, its all about dilution. HCl will be more orders of magnitude dispersed after burning and will therefore have negligible toxicity as opposed to a vapour cloud of vinyl chloride creeping up on you.

Fun fact H2S gas is typically burned to SO2 in flares during process plant emergencies.

It turns out SO2 is more poisonous than H2S (believe it or not) but again, the same logic above applies, because of the heat of combustion and associated gas lift, the SO2 is less harmful.

Dont worry about acid rain you twit, its the least of the issues here. Bit like CO2. .

>>15191973
>>15191973
hydrochloric acid in the environment is far less of a problem than the same moles of vinyl chloride

>>15191999
next you gonna tell me ISS isn't just a terrorist organization from middle east, i know your types jack

>>15192408
But how much of a problem will that much HCl be? There was a big rain storm a few days later.

Are we just on standby mode? Hoping it won't be too bad?

>>15192302
And everyone around for miles would be acking.

>>15191973
not my problem

>>15191973
Hydrochloric acid is not dangerous aside from being corrosive. It leaves nothing behind except various salts once it reacts.

As someone who lives in Ohio all I can say is lord have mercy on our vehicles.. if you live in Ohio you know

>>15192550
your stomach is full of HCL as we speak
it's fairly biologically benign as far as industrial chemicals go

I'm hearing that the entire city is covered with phosgene gas. The same gas they used on people in WWI.

>>15192149
What's scary is not just that those headlines exist, but that most ppl don't notice the agenda.
Also notice how there are no white males in the pics.

>>15192149
>Good. Gas the journoshills, then after they've finished rounding up the journalists gas the police too.
I'd vote for you!
Need someone with guts to clean this fucking country up.

>>15193032
>What's scary is not just that those headlines exist, but that most ppl don't notice the agenda.
>Also notice how there are no white males in the pics.
This.

>>15192550
When you have a literal train wreck of hazardous chemicals you're already in damage control and trying to keep things not too bad.

>>15193313
>already in damage control and trying to hide just how bad things really are.
FIFY

>>15192782
think of all the 2006 accords. what a tragedy

>>15193032
>Also notice how there are no white males in the pics.
there are at least three.

>>15193339
He'll say they're Jewish or some shit.

Just got back from East Palestine doing a stal/k/er challenge in full MOPP gear. I have a bit of a headache and cough, but that could be from the fact that I've not eaten all day, and that my neighbor is burning a bunch of stuff in his backyard. Skies are clear, there's a consistent breeze coming from the northwest, and the fire is out, but the town is hardly evacuated. It's still packed with people, probably more than usual. No protestors, no monolith soldiers, no riot cops, just people going about their daily business. More than a few of them told me they had pretty serious headaches. There were also more than a few of these air monitors up, and more than a few were beeping.

>>15195229
So all is good!
Nothing to see here!
Back to watching baroons in the sky!

>>15192360
TIL pouches = fascism

What does /sci/ think of the EPA notice of liability? Can anyone extrapolate consequences from these chemicals being in the fire?
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fepaosc.org%2Fsites%2F15933%2Ffiles%2FNorfolk%2520Southern%2520East%2520Palestine%2520Train%2520Derailment%2520General%2520Notice%2520Letter%25202.10.2023.pdf

>>15191973
You forgot the phosgene gas released as well, bouncing baby boy.

>>15195380
Also mean faces and radios

>>15195634
Bueller?

>>15195229
>>15195349
I hope you get some superpowers in a week or so!

>>15192087
how muxh of this guy is going to be created by burning VC and other chemicals in a open ditch,

>>15192773
Fuck off. #WeWillNotBeDigested

>we can’t afford to upgrade safety measures and give better shifts or shorter trains
Meanwhile the company had $10B in cash to do stock buybacks

>>15191973
I’m sure this disaster is going to be taken very seriously, and usher in many serious reforms to rail safety and the transport of hazard materials, and this kind of accident will not happen again.

>>15197977
Allegedly quite a bit from the EPA reports.

>>15198644
If only they had a trillionaire "philanthropist" owner, right?

>>15198657
>I’m sure this disaster is going to be taken very seriously, and usher in many serious reforms to rail safety and the transport of hazard materials, and this kind of accident will not happen again.
Da comrade! Sieg Heil zeee government!

I have a trip booked to Cleveland in 2 weeks to visit some family. Should I cancel or is that far enough away in space and time that there's nothing to worry about?

>>15199094
It's far to the north and west of the accident. You'll be fine, it's far upwind and rainwater runoff/groundwater should be a non-issue. Just don't go through the area.

>>15199102
Thanks anon. It's clear shit's really fucked up close to there and they're covering things up, so glad to know this is enough distance.

>>15192218
>Because of its low boiling point, liquid VCM will undergo flash evaporation (i.e., autorefrigerate) upon its release to atmospheric pressure. The portion vaporized will form a dense cloud (more than twice as heavy as the surrounding air). The risk of subsequent explosion or fire is significant. According to OSHA, the flash point of vinyl chloride is −78 °C (−108.4 °F).[15] Its flammable limits in air are: lower 3.6 volume% and upper 33.0 volume%. The explosive limits are: lower 4.0%, upper 22.05% by volume in air.
The longer you wait the more frozen VC will evaporate and feed the explosive gas cloud.

>>15191973
Ahhhh so this is why they keep talking about UFOs in the news the last few days?? Damn, and here I was hoping for truth.

>>15191999
>>15191996
Hey /sci/ we really need ur help on this one.
>>15192149
They are arresting journalists. The only national journalist at the press briefing was arrested by the Major General of the National Guard of Ohio. Huge coverup going on.


What we need to know, is how much of the actual carcinogenic chemicals will be spread around from an even like this?
Also some weather analysis on where this acid rain will end up would be nice.

Anon was on scene in hazmat gear, pic related

>>15192844
Splash a .5M solution into your eyes or breathe it into your trachea and then let us know if you still believe this.

Idiot.

>>15192371
What about these other chemicals

All of these were on scene

>>15199648
Petroleum lube oil probably, we risk a massive faggot uprising

>>15199499
Yep, from what I can tell there is a huge coverup, also predictive programming conspiracy shit if you’re into that stuff.

The town was the actual movie set for a movie about a train crash and chemical spill just last year, starring Adam Driver.

https://youtu.be/oXFSIYy8D7M

Spooky stuff

>>15199667
if this is true (which I doubt), then we can pretty much conclude it was intentional. I don't even care enough to verify your post, as I'm assuming its bs

>>15198657
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri

They'll never learn. Maybe if the families are luckily enough, they can sue the government, and maybe actually win, when they die from the side effects decades later.

>>15199644
The only “conspiracy” is that Norfolk very recently lobbied to kill safety regulations for hazardous chemical transport, brake upgrades and additionally the government killed the possible strike that were asking for better shifts and shorter trains.

>>15199728

>>15192468
There's also a small village in Ohio called Isis, I've driven through.

>>15200157
You just named several huge fucking conspiracies, retard.

>>15200165
Should be 100k per person and pay for any future health ailment treatment. These corporations do not pay enough for their disasters to encourage them to not negligently cause the disasters

>>15200230
Because the government wants people to be hurt. It hates them.

>>15200230
What do you mean? The poor corporation can’t afford to upgrade the trains or fairly pay their employees ;)

>>15200165
This is for the whole town by the way. Not per person

>>15191973
What i dont fucking understand , im readying more reports of how when you burn Vinvyl chloride it produces fucking Phosgene. Which was entirely a WW1 chemical warfare gas.

This report " Schwarzwaelder says people in the area have reported the death of chickens, fish, and other animals, including a domesticated fox, since the accident. “I got a call yesterday from a person who lives 1.5 miles away from the derailment area,” she says. “They let their 2-year-old healthy dog out to go to the bathroom, and the dog never returned inside. He was dead in the yard.”"

Im concerned

>>15200282
You should be concerned. If phosgene was deployed on a mass scale in wartime the person who did it would receive the death penalty. That's how seriously people take chemical agents like this. Except in peacetime apparently it's legal if they don't tell anyone.

>>15200282
i would be concerned, definitely. if you live in that area or the windpath which i believe is blowing the chemical cloud east at the moment i would get the fuck out if you can. go camping down south for a while or something.

from what i've gathered, the decision was either

A: burn the shit and deal with a big fuckoff toxic chemical cloud disaster that will last weeks with some possible acid rain

B: let it seep into the groundwater that might also feed into the great lakes and poison the water supply for the entire state and possibly beyond.

they were damned if you do, damned if you dont. i dont mean to justify their decision, i think heads should roll and if anything this is just a larger version of the flint situation all over again where we have govt officials clearly ignoring safety regulations and greasing palms to make a quick buck and help out their campaign contributors, i think they all need to be hanged for treason and negligent homicide, but once the chemical is already spilled you do have to make a decision on what to do. i think only time will tell if it was the right one

>>15200297
They could have mobilized a real cleanup without burning, but the Feds decided not to get involved and the State decided it was cheaper to burn it and they wouldn't be punished if anyone got hurt. BTW it can still get into the water supply while it's leaking down from the burn pit. All they did was make a choice to poison a larger number of people.

this is what it's like to have your country owned by corporations

>>15200165
>>15200253
The town has ~5,000 people, so $5 each is pretty good. Good enough for a Big Mac for each resident!

How bad could (vinyl) chlorinated water be? You inadvertently have some of it in your mouth when you go swimming at the pool every time.

>>15199728
Oh shit the reptillians are real after all

>>15200670
authorities said the fumes are not toxic, nothing to worry about. the dead animals? nah dont worry dude
https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/north-lima-woman-finds-chickens-dead-tuesday-questions-chemical-release-from-train/amp/

>>15200670
Pretty fucking bad. You should be finding bottled water sourced outside of the areas affected until more is known. God speed anon.

>>15200297
>they were damned if you do, damned if you dont. i dont mean to justify their decision, i think heads should roll and if anything this is just a larger version of the flint situation all over again where we have govt officials clearly ignoring safety regulations and greasing palms to make a quick buck and help out their campaign contributors, i think they all need to be hanged for treason and negligent homicide, but once the chemical is already spilled you do have to make a decision on what to do. i think only time will tell if it was the right one
That's a book called Catch-22, word for word I'd imagine.

>>15200282
>Im concerned
Yeah, you think? This is borderline insane what is going on in America.

>>15195634
At what temperature do each of those chemicals have an affect to change or react? Meterological data is literally big media territory so I doubt you'll get much pull from asking the local satellite field techs and storm chasers.. right?

>>15201126
>Yeah, you think? This is borderline insane what is going on in America.
Wait till you find out about radiactive waste in the public water supply for over 5 million people along the Columbia River in Oregon due to the Hanford Site.
Certainly explains why people are batshit crazy leftist white trash in Portland.

>>15192149
Yeh but Anon, the brain doesn't understand why it's ok for some people to produce a long-standing, reputable source of 'fake news' but not ok for a bunch of Internet racists to post stuff they believe to be factual and true.

You're not allowed to question the this of your governments actions and thought processes. That's reserved for the president's cabinet and counsels.

Not even your elected state representatives and federally elected representatives get to know what's going on in that president's crazy head.

>>15195637
Thankfully phosgene is fairly rapidly converted into HCl and carbonic acid/CO2 on exposure to water.

If you wear a mask (easy to do with covid still an active danger) and use a water filter (who doesn’t already do this?) then you have nothing to worry about from the Ohio train derailment. The toxic chemicals cannot affect you if you take proper precautions. If the government was worried they would have shut down the site already. Trust the government they will resolve the situation (which isn’t even that serious) in the most effective manner possible. If we could flatten the curve then we can flatten the train derailment too.

>>15201152
>elected representatives
yeah, like legit elections happen anymore.
It is mindboggling that people actually believe the rich and powerful in control of shit would allow the rabble to decide if they stay in charge. KEK!

>>15201198
>he thinks a cloth face mask is the same as a chemical respirator
I recognize that your post is bait, but c’mon man

>>15201198
>government knows best!
kek

>>15201206
Politcially speaking, polsci, we are a vast majority. Small world? Sure.
I don't believe even extended familial ties could keep the military together in the event of a coup or statewide revolt against the Feds, specifically.
The Feds also have the ability to avoid this inevitability while also keeping it's nose clean but fails to do so far more often than any respectable diplomacy should suggest. That math can't stay towards one side for that long without a very probable, and equally proportionate fallout of resolve.

How about them Chinese balloons?

>>15201206
Trump lost

Chemical engineer here. All the Unsaturated polymer precursors are toxic or carcinogenic in some way. The benzene is particularly problematic as it will hang around in surface water in carcinogenic concentrations for months until microbes break it down. If it seeps down into water table it will take much longer to break down.

If you're getting a cough, or your eyes are watering and your pets are dying, you're getting dosed with poisons.

As usual the officials are lying about the effects

>>15201576
Oh boy, time to ready my NIOSH handbook again

>>15200297
The theory is if you burn it you create a big draft, eg heat rises up so the contamimants rise up into the troposphare and gets dilluted by the wind.
Thats why powerplants have higt chimneys.

>>15199648
Nice even more chlorinated stuff burning pvc, going to create dioxin

>>15191973
I thought this kind of shit only happened in china and russia! how can it be, the most powerful nation on earth can't even keep their railroads well maintained and not only simply let dangerous chemicals spill over productive land, but decided to BURN it?

Will the PM2.5 number in air quality reports pick up this material in the air?

The amount of Russian shills playing this nothing burger up are insane. Like we get, you're losing, but this is next level.

>>15202909
No because it's not designed to. Those air quality reports exist solely to hurt automobile makers, not to actually improve the quality of the air.

>>15203003
>t.chatgpt