/sci/ - Science & Math

There will be death and war.

1st for beam builders

whats the best rocket for delivering live nuclear warheads to urbanites? also whats the best height above ground level for the blast if you want to wipe out the maximum possible number of urbanites?

>>15169346
Go play with nukemap and have fun.

>>15169345
>sup /sfg/, i am epic fail
>failshuttle pic related
nasa = fail
errrrry single time

(SOUND WARNING)
Roatating Detonation Engine tested this week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBWUim-rppQ

>>15169346
>whats the best height above ground level for the blast if you want to wipe out the maximum possible number of urbanites?
Depends on yield, you want to maximize the 5 psi zone. Also 10 100kt warheads gives you more destruction than a 1 Mt warhead

>>15169355
yea

>Thales Alenia Space (/ˈθɑːlɛz/) is a Franco-Italian aerospace manufacturer. A joint venture between the French technology corporation Thales Group (67%) and Italian defense conglomerate Leonardo (33%), the company is the largest satellite manufacturer in Europe. It is headquartered in Cannes, France.

What did they mean by this?

Why are there still so many renders being made with the shitty gay looking mk1 flaps instead of the flaps we have had for the past 3 years?

>>15169345

TIL Aérospatiale seriously considered making M4/M45 and M51 derived launchers (called E4, E5, and PLS: M4 with a Castor upper stage) in the 90s, it never happened because of the perceived increased risk of information leak and the potential PR hit if one of the launcher failed.

>kids younger than the columbia disaster are going to be 20 soon

AAAAAAAAAAAA

>>15169519
They're posting here, alas

Despite a $1,000,000 offer, Virgin Galactic turned down a porn studio that wanted to rent one of their ships for the purpose of filming the world's first zero-G sex. The head of the company was said to have mentioned that it would have made the company's name ridiculous.

>>15169366
why 5 psi?

>>15169499
the fear of being laughed really shapes what humans do lol
fortunately musk is autistic and doesn't seem to care about that too much

>>15169536
Jeff, this is your chance (if you can get it up)

>>15169538
That's the overpressure needed to collapse/make unsafe 95% of dwellings, hospitals, offices etc.

>>15169556
0.34 bar doesn't seem like too much but the direction of the pressure is a factor too I guess?

>>15169555

>>15169566
well someone might get it up but it may not be him

>>15169562
5 psi is plenty and then there's the widespread fires to ruin was wasn't smashed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpressure

>>15169536
Good for them

Rogue Twitter employees might be targeting Elon by discount his account. His acct is locked

>>15169589
he did it on purpose to test if it affects engagement

>>15169589
No, someone just found out that if you locked your account it improved your engagement by something like 400%. Twitter code is a mess. The old administration added in a lot of shadowbanning features, and when those failed to adequately police thought crime they just slapped another system on top of the old one. Elon's said that the state of the codebase so catastrophic they might just have to scrap it all for something fresh.

>>15169566
That's a man

>>15169589
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1620664851663319042

>>15169626
Why doesn't he just look at the code to see what happens?

>>15169626
>>15169607
>>15169602
Thanks for clarification

https://twitter.com/VirtuallyNathan/status/1620762089987137537

>>15169627
because its a fucking spaghetti mess

>>15169607

>>15169627
It's a mess down there. They're trying to find out how the system works at ground level and doing a/b testing live.
>>15169634
Nice


https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1620809231971631106?t=AT3uVDU_Jb68LYn7BwzrjA&s=19

Berger piece on Virgin orbit and their status

I was looking for Rendezvous with Rama but they didn't have it so I got Childhood's end. Did I do good?

After this launch there will be only twelve Protons remaining

>>15169729
What, at a bookstore? Yeah Childhood's End is pretty damn good, I read it last summer and just saw the three-part miniseries for the first time last month, which was also pretty decent.
Definitely get Rendezvous when you can but yeah Childhood's End is a good pick too.

>>15169735
Writing a book is scary.

>>15169733
Why doesn’t Russia go all-in on Angara by retiring Soyuz and Proton?

Anons I've been thinking about setting up a "space savings account". I'll put 40% of my salary into it every month, it'll probably be in S&P500 or something. Then 30-40 years from now I'll have enough to buy a ticket to Mars.
What do you think?

>>15169745
just go all in in tesla and keep dollar cost averaging

>>15169745
Buy a house and keep it. Then when it comes to Mars, sell the house. You have you $1m easy.

how much will it cost to go to an orbital hotel in 15 years?

>>15169745
>40% of my salary
If you’re making less than $200,000 after taxes this is a dumb idea

>>15169748
no

>>15169751
Approximately 1 Earth house

>>15169317
One day someone may recreate this video on the moon. The wet sand footprints are quite reminiscent of footprints in lunar regolith

>>15169752
I make around $1000/mo after taxes, I'm from 3rd world.
$300 - food/rent/weekend trips/fun
$150 to parents
$100 Tithe
$150 savings
$300 space fund

>>15169743
They have retired the Proton. There were ten rockets in stockpile at the beginning of 2022 with Khrunichev factory planning to build four more before closing the production line. One of those rockets launched last October, so there'll be twelve left after this next one.

The Angara can't compete against the Soyuz on price. The Angara 1.2 costs $10M more to launch than the Soyuz-2-1v and the even if the Angara 3 got state approval it wouldn't be likely to do better when compared with the Soyuz-2-1b. Russia officials have complained that that Angara 5 is a problem because it costs three times what the Proton does. You might be able to bring costs down by moving everything onto the Angara but that's not a certainty. The super low cost of Soyuz launches is the one saving grace of the modern Russian space program, so people aren't very willing to try something that could bring costs down in the long term by doing something that would be certain to raise costs in the short term.

>>15169766
Ah okay if the cost of living around you is cheaper than it is here (where I live rent and groceries are fucking expensive) then it’s okay
>tithe
Based

>>15169766
nice salary for 3rd world

What level of propulsion technology is suitable for a world in which all of the major planets have humans inhabiting them in some sense or another, but have not yet voyaged beyond?

>>15169766
That would be 30% of your income

Unfortunately, no testing this week

>>15169788
Yes I changed my mind while typing, wanted a separate savings account to buy car and stuff

>>15169634
>/s/
What did goldman mean by this?

>>15169745
Good idea. Some less retarded people call it a pension

>virgin orbit is finito
sad because i thought they would be a great option for the military

>>15169634
>David Goldman

>>15169793
This hunk of junk will never fly; I grow more blackpilled each day

>>15169813
kek

>>15169817
You should try to grow up instead.

>>15169652
Why does she make /Sci/ seethe so much?

>>15169820
I also do that each day

>>15169817
Why the fuck can’t russia stop chimping out? It’s so sad seeing them pull shit with the ISS even before 2022. It’s sad

Reagan’s Challenger speech is actually really nice. Same with Bush’s Columbia one.

>>15169814
High cost, low cadence, questionable reliably, and no way to evolve to a larger launcher. I thought they might have a future being bought into by someone like the Israelis since LauncherOne compares fairly well against the Shavit, but SpaceX's last payload of the year was a Israeli spysat and it was too large for VL to loft.

>>15169831
Rogozin is the main answer probably. Notice how much has changed since his “reassignment”? Borisov is way more focused on actually working with the US and not trying to impress those above him with fluff drama

>>15169837
I miss the old days of regular commercial payloads flying in Russians rockets. Sea Launch, ILS, etc. were so kino.

>>15169817
MS-17 was such a comfy mission. Sergey and Sergey spent most of their time in the American segment lol

>>15169833
How about Kennedy's moon speech?

>>15169844
The pinnacle of space speeches, ever. Not until the Elon AI construct announces an interstellar voyage before the end of the century will anything top it

>>15169847
“Some of you may die, but it’s a sacrifice I am willing to make.”

>>15169849
I fucking love shrek

https://twitter.com/rookisaacman/status/1620643060387573761?t=6VNfRYJEaTsr1mCY586PgA&s=19
Cryptic Isaacman tweet just dropped

>>15169858
that's just their hubble mission

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tujL0xrQ2Os
Let's go to Mars. Getting the best interviewees as always

>>15169545
The bigger concern was likely a launch failure calling into question French nuclear capabilities. Deterrence relies on your adversaries assuming that your delivery systems will function properly.

>>15169839
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdqHpYEWjnY
It's wild that the last Atlas IIAS mission wasn't even twenty years ago. It feels like it should have been a lot longer.

>>15169873
why would france need deterrence though?
In the 90s the soviet union was no more also

>>15169858
Holy shit we are going

>>15169876
Atlas I-III are so cool. 90’s-early 00’s rockets are underrated imo

build a robotic precursor base on mars first

>>15169892
France has maintained a comparatively independent foreign policy compared to the rest of the west since the 50s. Part of that independence relies on them having their own nuclear capability outside of the US/NATO nuclear umbrella agreements some other European states have.

>>15169897
that is retarded

>>15169897
No

>>15169898
why would experimental rockets exploding make their deterrent less believable?
its a new rocket system

>>15169902
If the launch vehicle is derived from their SLBMs with a decent amount of hardware commonality, a failure of the launcher could publicly reveal issues with their missiles. Another concern would be missile hardware potentially being recovered by other powers after a failure. I don't necessarily agree with that assessment, but that seems to be their reasoning.

>>15169900
>>15169901
we can do it right away tho while manned starship undergoes testing

>>15169912
no we can't

>>15169912
Ships get sent to Mars in batches spaced approximately two years apart. The first will only be a few ships, the second could be a dozen, the third could be several dozen. By the third or fourth the safety could be proven and humans could be sent. The early ships would be better used sending equipment and material that would be directly usable by future colonists. There's no reason to not use everything directly in service of the human settlement.

>>15169766
>tithe
cringe. Imagine paying money to pedos so they can talk to their imaginary friend

>>15169865
interesting that the interview is with a nasa guy and all he alludes to it spacex being the ones going to mars

>>15169766
Do you have a feudal lord or something

One day these numbers will be in the hundreds

new spacenews layout is kind of shit they should've taken notes from arstechnica

>>15169930
I hope one day space ships get so big that you basically need a tram system to even navigate across them like in the first dead space
We will never have artificial gravity though :(
unless you have a giant spin station

>>15169893
Lmao, the Twitter libs would be so fucking mad if they boosted Hubble.

>>15169935
Let’s face it web designed peaked in the 90s/early 2000s, now everything wants to look like a sleek iphone and it’s gay

>>15169941
XD

>>15169935
I prefer old nasawatch vs sterile new nasawatch

>>15169936
>We will never have artificial gravity though :(
Not with that attitude, pussy

>>15169941
>Billionaires in space do something that unequivocally helps out humanity
>Twitter cretins try to explain why saving Hubble is a bad thing

>>15169865
>nasa guy is talking about using AI instead of relying completely on long range communications
i wonder if we'll take a page from vidya netcode where games rely on rollback to reduce lag issues. rollback uses AI to predict the situation of the game pretty well and then it updates the game for all players.

lol
lmao

>>15169947
>"Hubble was actually a racist, so reboosting this outdated piece of equipment on a dangerous mission paid for by the elite, is just another example of white privilege in STEM."

>>15169959
The Chinese truly make the most abominable looking rocket concepts.

look at this dude
oh no no no no no

>>15169957
meds

>>15169959
>no second stage
what did they mean by this

>>15169947
Everything the ruling class does is bad. Everything the economic elites do is bad. No exceptions.

>>15169947
>Twitter cretins try to explain why saving Hubble is a bad thing
Hubble is oldspace, Saving Hubble would be like saving Shuttle

>>15169973
rollback is just a form of state management which is a huge thing in communications. tons of websites and apps use it.

>The Space Shuttle Columbia disaster was a fatal accident in the United States space program which occurred on February 1, 2003.
Anons, today is the 20th anniversary of the Columbia disaster. Anything to say about it?

>>15169981
>tons of websites and apps use it.
certainly false

>>15169959
wow china is mogging spacex

>>15169985
It shouldn't have happened, just like the whole STS program.

>>15169985
There should have been more since.

>>15169979
Yeah, why bother when the HWO will be here in just... 20+ years.

>>15169985
It's overblown, if starship ever flies we might see even worse stuff.

>>15170011
SS architecture (simple 2 stage rocket) is inherently more reliable than Shuttle

>>15169975
We SSTO now

> be American
> go to space
> no gun on board the spacecraft
Why is this allowed? Look at the sweet gat cosmonauts get wtf

>>15169942
The recent wikipedo change was like "we're making things more streamlined for you!!!! [soimouth.jpg]", and about all they reallly did was remove a few lines

>>15170015
But will the landing be safe for humans?

>>15170028
any way to get old wikipedia back?

>>15169897
That'll take foreverrrrrr

>>15169985
We were lucky it didn't happen a lot sooner than 2003.

>In FY 87, with the addition of the third MLP, the launch rate is limited by two VAB integration cells to 20 flights per year.

>These projections indicate that, with three orbiters at KSC (out of a four-orbiter fleet) and all second-line facilities active, a launch rate of 30 flights per year from KSC can be achieved.

>Therefore, product improvements are indicated not only to meet NASA's goal of 40 Shuttle flights per year, but also to make sure that there is no gap between the demand for launch services and their availability.

40 flights per year is nearly one shuttle flight per week. Imagine that.

>>15170034
nope

>>15170035
You have to log in like a faggot or get a browser extension

>>15170040
lol, this rocket fars

>>15169985
RIP
I personally know an astronaut who lost friends there


NASA-ESA-Russia should have done a crew rescue vehicle in tbe 90s, mix of X-38 and Zarya, that they didn’t do it after sts-27 was reckless

>Did hundreds of test on a 50 kN demonstrator 1966-1968

>>15170040
is this slowed down?

>>15170123
I don't think so. That's a LM-4C. They only pull about 1.2g of acceleration at liftoff which is about the same as the Delta IV Heavy.

To the Anon asking about satellite testing. I spoke with my friend who works for Northrup Grumman, and this is what he told me. "So it comes down to what exactly you're testing, for the most part our scripts are written in perl but you could really write the scripts in anything you wanted. We basically try to test as we fly, so if there's a specific function of the spacecraft we want to test we isolate those commands and verify that everything works correctly in a relative timed sequence, or by manual verification"

Hope that helps, pretty general though

I wonder if these telecom companies have a separate control room for every satellite

>>15170180
thanks anon! appreciate it

>Energia has a higher TLI capacity than N1
Wtf

>>15170205
And block 1 SLS

>>15170205
With which side-stage?

ive waiting 30 years....howmuch longa

Sad
https://youtu.be/oNmR2YZO2gw

>>15170225
seven days times two

>>15170227
is this Hullo's random kerbal plays channel?

>>15170225
For a Mars manned mission? At this pace, I'd say 2040 or 2050, if Elon doesn't die before that.

ECTOPOS: ELDO (Europa rockets) project for a Space Shuttle hydrogen kick stage, Aérospatiale-SEP-MBB

Some documents of it are in the ESA archives

>>15170233
if elon dies, what do we do?

>>15170253
Hope and pray that one of his children is actually interested in continuing the Mars dream and be competent/autistic enough to be in charge of it. If not, then he better have already chosen a good successor. Zubrin is way too temperamental and is old, Gwynne is going to retire soon, Mueller has his own company now and is old too, Koenigsmann retired already. Some candidates that come to my mind right now could be Isaacman, he's got the ambition, and Paul Wooster, principal Mars development engineer at SpaceX (this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Cz6vF4ONE)), he stutters A LOT, that must mean something good. However, there's a strong chance he might end up chosing some obscure, unknown SpaceX engineer he trusts. Who do you think could be a good candidate?

>>15170227

We WILL drop rocks on the earthers. This is set in stone now.

>>15169729
Childhood's a better story, Rama is more interesting IMO.
Be sure to get only Rama and ignore any subsequent books.

>>15170290
Me after reading through 57 chapters of rendezvous with boring and literally nothing happens

>>15170296
You should watch the new star trek. It's way better than that boring old garbage. more explosions amd excitement, i pissed myself and clapped when i saw Spock

>>15170303
ok, redditor

>>15170296
Terminal Earther detected

>>15170303
trek died at the ENT finale

>>15169733
>only 19 Atlas V left
>only twelve Protons
>only two Ariane 5
>only two Delta Heavy
>only two Antares 230
are we finally seeing the end of Old Space?

>>15169766
>Tithe

>>15170227
For the astronauts, yes. For spaceflight per se, no.

>>15170277
Whoever finds the Golden Ticket in their new Tesla gets to succeed Elon Wonka and his Rocket Factory!

>>15169766
>Tithe
>space fund
Based.
I care not about the source of funding, so long as the money keeps flowing.

>>15170225
Two weeks
Trust the plan

>>15170310
No. Enter SLS. Enter Vulcan. Enter Angara. Enter the new Antares with Firefly engines
Worst of all… enter New Glenn and National Team lander, the ultimate “new” oldspace grift

>>15170351
national team is beyond pathetic

>>15170205
source?

>>15170310
also only two more SLS

This would have been pretty cool for Europe in the 70s
>200 kN
>~453 ISP
>350 kg
>staged combustion, restartable


Twice the TWR of the RL10 or HM7, only for a couple % of ISP less than the RL10

Sad it got cancelled with Europa

>>15170371
...before NASA is bankrupt?

Is aerospace an AI proof field?

>>15170423
only if you go far enough

I remember the FAA getting pissy over SN8 having a raptor swap because they considered it a 'new vehicle' and considered the existing license obsolete
has that kind of shit changed? because raptor swaps happen all the time now

>>15169897
>something gets stuck on a manned mission
>knock it with a hammer
>fixed
>something get stuck on a robotic mission
>robot is unusable and the mission is permanently over

Look at the state of robots on earth, they're for super specialized tasks only, why do you think it'll be any different on mars?

>>15170444
Send a robot that knocks the first robot with a hammer if something goes wrong

>>15170455
yeah let's just design a whole new custom robot for every conceivable thing that needs knocking with a hammer, good idea

>>15170462
Design a robot to design new custom robots to knock other robots with a hammer

>>15170444
>why do you think it'll be any different on mars?
according to sfg, you can automate everything, make food out of bedrock, create fuel from air, 3d proont everything and achieve 100% recycling rate, but only on mars

>>15170399
they'll let it run until Artemis III and after the moon landing they'll cancel it

>>15169902
>>15169911
New anon here.
Also I don't think it even really matters if there's a decent amount of hardware commonality, which would make sense it there where, what matters if whether outsiders believe or not that there is

>>15170324
Remember behemoth always carries moth

biologists examining the entire natural range of the devils hole pulpfish

>>15170351
>>15170357
I know why New Glenn is considered a joke, but what's up with the National Team lander?

>>15170583

>>15170585
ngl the national team lander has soul

>>15169922
>>15170313
Tithe is mandatory in some countries eg Germany.

>>15170583
>>15170587
Stupid fish got stuck and speciated, dumb fish

>>15170619
Yeah pretty much. I'm hoping we can stuck some fish on Europa though.

>>15170607
Only if you declare that you're Christian.

>>15170035
Add ?useskin=monobook to the end of the URL

>>15170648
thanks

>>15170324
>odd engine count that's not a multiple of 3
aieeeee

https://twitter.com/stanshull/status/1620469046398566400
Amazon has ceased hiring for Kupier-related positions in Seattle. This could be a sign that Amazon considers completing the constellation to be untenable.

Amazon needs to launch one fully loaded Atlas V, Ariane 6, or Vulcan per month beginning last month to meet the FCC license requirement of having 50% of their constellation in orbit by 2026. Ariane 6 will not be flying at all until Q1 2024 and not at volume until 2026. Vulcan will only fly twice in 2023 and it’s flight rate after that is uncertain. There are only 9 Atlas Vs available for Amazon.

>>15170673
What colour is the Martian sky directly overhead? We mostly see the dusty horizon but it looks like it's tending towards black
A black sky yet a gently lit normal looking surface would be eerie as fuck.

>>15170696
yeah it's finito. starlink and oneweb won. maybe china will send one up in the near future but that's it.

Assuming similar budgetary constraints, what should NASA have done instead of the Space Shuttle?

IMO they should have made a dream chaser/X-37B style vehicle for crew use, so they could do satellite servicing style missions and missions where the payload can be brought back to the ground.
This would have allowed them to develop the tech for heat shields, EVA, Re-usable capsules, re-entry aerodynamics etc

They also should have developed an Energia style launcher for medium-Heavy lift, leave the light work to the existing family of launchers, IE; delta, Thor, Atlas etc.
The core stack would be effectively a medium lift launcher comparable in performance to Saturn 1B, and this could launch the space plane inline on top of the second stage for regular missions.
It's payload performance could be improved with modular strapon boosters and higher performance second stages.

This first stage could then be eventually worked into a Re-usable stage.
Either with a gliding method, or with VTVL.

In this way the technology and operational experience would be gathered for both the first and second stage of a future fully Re-usable system.

>>15170699
orange-brown I'd say

>>15170696
It never even began

>>15170705
they shouldve (and wanted to) just continue apollo and the Saturn V, unfortunately nixon was a niggerfaggot

>>15170678

>>15170708
wrong

>>15170716
im pretty sure i made that out of cardboard as a kid

>>15170713

>>15170708
Technically there are two Kuiper prototypes that are going to fly as rideshares on the first Vulcan launch. We haven't seen them, but everyone assures us that they are real and that they exist.

If Amazon launches those they will officially be where Starlink was in February of 2018.

>>15170730
>its been 5 years since the first starlink launch
>starlink is still nowhere near completion
no wonder amazon has given up

>>15170730
Nigga you can buy starlink and get a decent service right now

>>15170730
Basically their version of Tintin A/B

>>15170705
A minishuttle on a wide-body Titan evolution would have been the most straightforward option. That would actually have given NASA a pretty nice lineup of launch vehicles. Deltas for small payloads, Atlases for medium work, and Titans for heavy crew launch, natsec, and the occasional deep space probe. They could have even treated the orbiter like the X-plane the shuttle always was and have a better chance for larger Shuttle II in the 1990s or early 2000s.

First stage reusability would probably still be a wild pipe dream for decades, but I've got no clue how the SSTO craze of the 90s would play out without the Shuttle to mis-inspire everyone. Maybe everyone would focus on smaller orbiters riding larger winged boost stages instead?

What is the purpose/advantage of hot staging

>>15170739
>you can buy starlink
Not from my country.

>>15170723
>8 engines
what?

>>15170753
indiabro...

I can't be the only one who thinks it's finally time for the first transgender person TO GO TO SPACE

>>15170755
lol no, but still from the third world :(

>>15170760
wasnt the whole point of starlink to open up new markets? when is that gonna get started?
>>15170756
>(you)

>>15170756
Sky-high rates of suicidal ideation are a hard disqualification on the Astronaut psych eval.

Meet Coralie

>>15170745
I think that if Buran could land totally autonomously, then making a gliding flyback booster would not be that difficult, but that is arguably a dead end technology compared to vertical landing.
Ultimately re-using a first stage is in many ways a lot more forgiving than a second stage, because the mass constraints are not so harsh, every extra pound on the first stage is not directly coming out of the payload mass like it does on the second stage.

Vertical landing would be a lot harder with the FCS tech of the time, and the engine tech of the time too.
Might be possible with dedicated landing engines on the booster, designed specifically for deep throttle, alongside the normal engines.

>>15170705
Restart Big G and use it as a ferry to low earth orbit. Keep Skylab alive and use the Saturn-IB to lift station modules. Basically go the Russian route and dick around with stations. Death to spaceplanes.

>>15170776
>60s steel core stage
>2 massive white SRBs
>comically large (proportionally) capsule on top
absolutely based

>>15170776
If you’ve kept Saturn IB alive, just use it for everything. Throw some Titan boosters on the side for extra upmass

>>15170780
The Titan IIIM was the ideal way to keep manned spaceflight going in America after the Saturns got retired and I refuse to hear otherwise.

>>15170783
I'm glad that we finally have a rocket named "Vulcan" because now aerospace engineers will have to find something else to call all of their powerpoint rockets.

>>15170764
>wasnt the whole point of starlink to open up new markets? when is that gonna get started?
Depends entirely on local government. Many third worlders want bribery to fast track Starlink.

>>15170781
I’m trying to imagine how this would look. Either goofy or based, no in between

>>15170760
At least you have the opportunity to actually speak with real live Americans, which must be a treat seeing as how we're kind of a big deal.
Hope you can have Starlink soon, bro.

>>15170806
Fake news, that’s only considered a medium truck in houston standards

>>15170800
goofy AND based

>>15170705
Make the orbiter smaller, launching crew + payload in one package together on all flights is retarded and returning large payloads from orbit is a meme, instead you should only build it big enough for satellite repair, station resupply and carrying sortie cans, also give it launch abort motors.
Don't develop the SSME.
Put the funds saved from all that towards a better semi reusable launch vehicle, using either pressure fed splashdown recovery or S-IC derived flyback booster.

pic related more or less

>>15170781
Saturn was ridiculously expensive. It was like half a billion per launch or something.

>>15170828
and how much did a shuttle launch cost?

>>15170828
Cheaper than everything that has come after it

>>15170828
https://www.space.com/12166-space-shuttle-program-cost-promises-209-billion.html

From 2011

>Recent NASA estimates peg the shuttle program's cost through the end of last year at $209 billion (in 2010 dollars), yielding a per-flight cost of nearly $1.6 billion
$1.6 billion in 2010 dollars = $2.19 billion in Dec 2022 money.

>>15170828
Put a F1 and you cut the cost

>>15170828
Saturn IB was so expensive because they developed it in a hurry without affordability, if they'd kept it around it'd have switched to the J-2S and SOFI and the mass (and cost) of the instrument unit would've dropped to practically nothing.
there may also have been some experimentation with first stage recovery and reflight.

>>15170776
Why don’t rockets have big ass payloads like that anymore

>>15170841
For comparison, SLS's per flight cost calculated will be somewhere north of $6-10B per flight

>>15170836
Part of me is actually upset that Arianespace didn't build the euroOmegA.

Saturnbros we were ROBBED

>>15170845
It's not that payloads got skinnier. Rockets got wider.

imagine how much lockheed martin black technology could fit into that fairing (they dare not activate anything reactionless in the atmosphere

>>15170857
Fuck off you got Cassini, its Venus and Ice giants time

>>15170864
>they dare not activate anything reactionless in the atmosphere
why not, if it even existed

>>15170868
i want to see a neptune probe before i die. such a based planet

>>15170864
Could a falcon even handle 4 common core boosters? Seems like they’re already sketched out about flying with two and just managed to make it work without it shredding itself apart kerbal style
4 boosters would be cool though

>>15170874
Four boosters would require a significant reinforcement of the core. Falcons can go back and forth between their Falcon 9 and FH booster configurations, but I think cores need to be made custom. Ones for this monster certainly would. There's also the problem that this would be maxing out SpaceX's landing zones. You'd need to stage off two boosters early for a RTLS landing and have the second two peel off later for a dual drone ship landing.

Admittedly, that would be the sickest launch SpaceX would have ever attempted, but it'd be a huge headache to set up.

>>15170705
I think a cheap TSTO running kerelox and methalox would have been better than something fancy.

>>15170883
I think once you’re at 4 boosters, landing is off the table lmao
It’s possible but damn would it be tricky

Did you guys watch Scott Manley’s new video about Columbia?

Jesus Christ

>>15170925
Oh woah I drove up that exact spot last month I thought this happened way more north of where I was

>>15170925
Jesus Christ X2

>>15170931
Damn. That was a quick and violent end.

>>15170925
>>15170939
At least they died achieving their dreams
Hopefully they all had children

>As the recovery team went into the woods from the road to find the astronaut’s remains, a white dog followed them, staying thirty or forty feet away. Sheriff Maddox assumed the dog belonged to the owner of the property. He worried about keeping the dog away from the crew members’ remains, but this turned out not to be an issue. The dog stopped and lay down near Maddox while Brother Fred Raney read his words beside the fallen astronaut. To Maddox’s surprise, the dog covered its head with its paws while Brother Fred led the prayer service. At the end of the service, the dog led the team out to the road. Then the dog went back into the woods and was not seen again. It did not belong to the property owner. No one knew whose it was or where it came from.
>Several years after the accident, the sister of one of Columbia’s crewmen came to Sabine County to visit the location where her brother had been recovered. Marsha Cooper was her escort and host. As they sat outside and talked the evening she arrived, the astronaut’s sister told stories about her brother’s childhood. She said that he used to enjoy fishing with their father, who would often remark about seeing a reflection of a white dog in the water. Cooper said she was stunned. This astronaut’s remains were found near the water. His was the recovery at which the white dog had followed the sheriff and the rest of the group into the woods to the site. Cooper told the astronaut’s sister about the incident, and they both broke into tears.

QRD on the project Kuiper situation?

>>15170931
They were likely unconscious or dead by the time this started right?

>>15170980
Amazon is trying to build a megaconstellation without a MC qualified launch vehicle. Ariane 6 and Vulcan aren’t going to hit their stride for years, New Glenn is still in pieces, and Atlas V is a government employee who knows they’re 5 minutes from retirement.

This is a problem because Amazon needs to get 50% of their hardware (~1600 satellites) into orbit by 2026 or risk losing the frequency allocation they got from the FCC. It’s not clear that they could pull that off now even if they started buying Falcon 9 launches. The two satellites they have finished are prototypes and getting the production models out of them could require significant modification, which would take even more time.

Fortunately, the “50% by 2026” deadline isn’t a super hard one because they’ve got friends in the bureaucracy and could argue that the delays are the LSP’s fault instead of theirs, which is kinda true, so an extension isn’t completely unreasonable.

The recent job closures in Seattle might be a sign that Amazon thinks it’s just not worth the trouble.

doesnt putting a city or colony on the moon make alot of sense for starship? it seems like it would be a great way to create alot of demand for launches.

https://twitter.com/AndrewParsonson/status/1620721957347151872
Big news: The Exploration Company has secured €40.5M in Series A funding led by EQT Ventures and Red River West. The company is developing a reusable space capsule called Nyx that will be used to fly science missions, resupply space stations, and, in time, host crewed missions.

It turns out not all Europeans are completely retarded when it comes to designing crewed spacecraft. They’re going to need more funding, but they just got started and their design looks a lot more solid than SUSIE.

>>15170999
It’s pretty damn dire. It’s still not exactly known how they died, as there were a million different things that could have happened. Challenger hardware indicated the crew knew what was happening and tried to save themselves. Columbia is way different, some astronauts didn’t even have their helmet on—yet they had full PPE such as a self-pressurizing suit and parachutes. And it’s estimated that the orbiter was able to do at least one full tumble before breaking up, according to a 20-second gap of data breakup and reacquisition. That would have been enough time to prepare. It’s known that their upper harnesses failed, and many of them had lethal force blunt trauma caused by hardware itself i.e. flailing around in their chair, their head smashing into their helmet, the helmet neck ring snapping their necks. In my opinion they all died from physical trauma before depressurization even began. It would have been extremely painful (they expect one of us in the wreckage brother ha ha) but at least it would have been very rapid

>>15171018
*blunt force trauma, I meant
Also all of this is a recitation from memory due to a talk I heard like 12 years ago so maybe they’ve learned more since then. I don’t know

>>15171017
is it launcher agnostic? and 40 million euros is nothing. how much money has sierra blown on dreamchaser?

>>15171017
What’s the point though

>>15171022
https://europeanspaceflight.com/the-exploration-company-aims-to-offer-europe-independent-access-to-space/
>In order to ensure maximum mission flexibility, the spacecraft will be launch vehicle agnostic. Huby explained that the company is exploring a number of launch vehicles including Ariane 6, Falcon 9, and even Starship.

$40M is extra nothing, but they raised ~$7M earlier and they’ve only been working since June of 2021. $50M isn’t a bad purse for putting together your initial prototype hardware and attracting your first real customers. A simple conic capsule and service module should also be a lot cheaper to develop than a spaceplane.

>science hasnt been done on the iss in decades
>crew dragon almost entirely automated
what do astronauts actually do? are they space neets?

>>15171032
>Starship

I think I'm going to launch my payload on a Saturn V. Nothing personnel.

>>15171040
>what do astronauts actually do?
Maintenance. The ISS is falling apart.

>>15171044
starship emergency escape lifeboats aiiieeeee

>>15171029
There are some very serious questions brewing about the future of manned European spaceflight. European astronauts get added to ISS crews because ESA contributed modules for the construction of the station and used to pitch in for launching cargo resupply missions. Europe will not be contributing anything to the post-ISS commercial stations and a restarted ATV program is unlikely to be attrative when put up against Dragon, Dreamchaser, and Cygnus, so what is Europe contributing that merits the inclusion of European astronauts?

Europe could buy a commercial station from an American company and they could buy all European crew launches from SpaceX, but ESA likes relying on Americans the same way vampires like sunlight. There’s a growing feeling that it’s finally time for Europe to finally develop its own domestic spaceflight capabilities. Most of this is being used to pour government funding into the doomed SUSIE mess, but that doesn’t negate the actual underlying need. If there’s a need, there’s money to be made in filling it.

>>15171032
>develop "independent euro crew access to space"
>think about putting it on a Falcon 9 or Starship instead of the A6
come on, I know all newspace ppl are going to be musk fans but that's almost heretical. Besides, who would buy your capsule then put it on a Spacex vehicle when Spacex provides their own crew modules?

>>15171075
It’s so stupid that it almost seems like something euros would actually want to do

Apparently the Columbia crew were splashed with molten metal from the disintegrating Shuttle

>>15170756
(with no suit)

>>15171075
>launch once on A6
>europe now has independent manned spaceflight capabilities
>europe now can brag about their independent manned spaceflight capability
>book every subsequent mission on the falcon 9
it's perfect

>if you can tell who this voice belongs to, you are one of the smartest anons on this board
fucking /sfg/ easter egg in my ai vocaroo archive, you little shits

>governments lining up to put astronauts on flights
>iss demand is high for science and tourism
i expect a bright future for axiom's station

>>15171167
axiom’s biggest asset is that they will have a station in a time when NASA/congress shit the bed at coordinating funding and hardware for commercial second options after ISS is deorbited

>>15171167
they should set up training facilities to sell to govts

>>15171167
As a dude who is hoping to go to med school in 4-5 years (gap years lol) I really can’t wait for the day the requirement to fly into space isn’t as insane as it is today

what's the status of the axiom module anyway? any recent pics?

What the fuck are these relentless mobile popups good grief

Apparently the HALO and PPE modules of lunar gateway are launching next year. Is there any chance this shit happens in ‘24? Are the modules ready?

Gonna be a flex that we will have a lunar space station in a year

>>15171203
>not running an adblock
>phonefag
the problem must be on your end, buddy

>>15171059
>There’s a growing feeling that it’s finally time for Europe to finally develop its own domestic spaceflight capabilities
Literally no one here wants a European SLS

>>15171222
I only phonepost at night after I crawl into bed

>>15171215
Maybe? Not many updates yet

>>15171234
>I only phonepost at night after I crawl into bed

/sfg/ мepтв

how will we manage depression in the colonies? it's going to be a leading cause of crime and suicide.

>>15170852
instead of all solid Ariane 6 we have Vega (I guess)
instead of Ariane 5 ME they went all in with Ariane 6
ME version was basically Ariane 6 cryogenic upper stage on Ariane 5 boosters
that version made sense from iterative design perspective, but it was hopelessly expensive even back then
without Falcon 9, it probably would have happened

yawn, just another Falcon 9 Starlink launch within the hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TDrOyMMpIo

>>15171289
i wonder how long until megaconstellations become obsolete

>>15171289
It just keeps going. They don't even bother putting the Starlink mission number in the title or description now.

>>15170277
I’ll do it!

>>15171280
Send depressed people to the torture chambers, so that other colonists can boost their mood inflicting pain upon them

>>15171289
I wonder if Starship launches will feel as routine in the future as F9.

>>15171280
>how will we manage depression in the colonies?
Two slaps in the face and then scream "man up!" shit has worked since the beginning of times.

>>15171280
In-situ alcohol

>>15171310
alcohol is a depressant...

>>15171311
Sure makes me happy

>>15171288
Why is Ariana 6 so cheap compared to Ariane 5? I heard it’s like half the cost.

>>15171280
Turn a few TeslaBots into sexbots

once starship proves itself then we'll see a dozen countries begin their own starship equivalent programs

liftoff

Starlink liftoff, 'bout to pass Max Q

when are we getting dragon xl? isnt it the only thing that can provide supplies to the gateway?

Landed in the circle and SECO-1

Sometimes I wish a booster exploded just to have something different happening.

Abiogenesisters.. it's over...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh8MIcF7J30

Do you guys consider Falcon 9 to be “one rocket” or a family of rockets (v1.0, v1.1, Full Thrust, Block 5, etc.).

>>15171360
One rocket with some variants.

>>15171318
different production methods
Vulcain 2.1 alone has reduced number of its parts by 90% and is half-off (supposedly)
sharing boosters with Vega-C also saves some money

>>15171375
Its a good thing it's just the booster that's common, because the upper stages aren't looking so hot.

>>15171018
It's not exactly clear when the really extreme g-forces started that caused the blunt trauma on the bodies, probably when the crew cabin broke apart and they were exposed to the hypersonic wind; there was enough force from the wind to completely rip the suits from their bodies.
When the shuttle was out of control but not yet disintegrating, they were experiencing ~3G.

If they weren't prepared for de-pressurisation then they would have gone unconscious remarkably quickly, it can only take 5 seconds in a zero oxygen environment.

sfg Houston, comm check

>>15171376
Yeah, AVUM is still using hypergolics when even Russians are retiring Proton.
Vega-E was supposed to have methane upper stage, but that got outsourced to Ukrainians (retrospectively a bad move indeed)
Vinci is pretty much equivalent to RL10. Way too powerful for Vega, but it's pretty good for what it is.

>>15171388
spaceflight is alive but nobody cares anymore. it's just become another boring industry.

>>15171388
Roger but uh-

I’m still puzzled because A64 is always written as having 1500 tons of thrust but everything P120C thrust curve I see show that the lift off thrust must be in the 1500-1700 tons range

>>15169317
I got hyped because I thought Zubrin was gonna give a talk at my college but it turns out it's just gonna be a livestream :(

>what questions would you have me ask him on behalf of /sfg/ if this actually happened tho

NASA rockets have since Saturn V become more expensive inflation adjusted and less capable at the same time.

>>15171472
Ask him about sunshade on venus
And see how he recoils
>I've been found out.

>>15171018
Why the fuck were they even wearing suits if they couldn't have the gloves/visors on?

>>15171474
How is the Oort Cloud anon? See any ayys out there?

> dumbasses thinking you can use a vertical HLS as a moonbase
fucking mental midgets

>>15170844
ngl even if Apollo Applications happened and S1B kept flying this would have never happened.

F9 booster and this both cut out at around ~45 miles, except F9 has the computer power to do a powered landing, and extra fuel for a burn b4 entry to reduce heating.

Remember musk already tried parachutes for the first F9 flights and it never worked.

>>15171483

>>15171486
No dude you have to get irradiated on your months long tour of duty, cretins recommend it

>>15171485
I wonder if you could make some small shitty Pressure-fed booster with parachute landing for small to medium LVs?

>>15171483
>>15171486
Using your lander as a long term base is brain damaged either way and will never happen.
Dilate

>>15171485
>F9 has the computer power to do a powered landing
kill this meme already

>>15171506
The Shuttle was originally going to have pressure-fed boosters instead of SRBs. I don't remember if they were reusable or not. Yay or gay?

>>15171506
>Pressure-fed booster
sure bro

>How much electrical power is needed to farm in space?
> https://space.nss.org/wp-content/uploads/NSS-JOURNAL-Space-Farm-Electrical-Requirements.pdf
>With the most efficient set-up using photobioreactors, it's 10 kW/person with 83% of it going to pumping fluids.
>It can climb to 672 kW/person in an export farm with animal proteins.
https://twitter.com/ToughSf/status/1620889861539471369
its over

>>15171472
1) whether magnetic sail could work
2) should we lynch astronomers or simply ignore them
3) what cologne brand he uses

>>15171539
Looks like mercury is gonna be prime agri real estate boys

>>15171493
It's going to be a long time before they stay that long. With the short times they plan they can deal with vertical. Maybe after a few of those spent on building something else they can worry about it.

Could some italian tell me why the fuck does the Italian air force want Walter Villadei to fly to space so much?

>>15171560
Like what does he have for them to fund him the whole moscow training, houston training, parabolic flight, Spaceship 2 flights, Axiom flights package outside of the ESA selection process?

>>15171560
I have no idea, but he didn't seem fit for the job (and was rightfully excluded from ESA candidates), they made Cristoforetti leave Aeronautica because they were pushing so much for him with nothing to show.

>reusable lander
>want to use it as moon base
most retarded shit I ever heard

>>15171606
Agree in principle but then you need to work out a method of getting the many tons of fuel from Earth to NRHO to refuel it

>>15171618
It's not that hard. Watch Gunnerson's video.

>>15171606
>reusable lander
Exactly. You reuse the lander as a moon base.

>wake up
>turn on radio
>hear that there's going to be a static fire tomorrow after all
holy shit lads, it's happening

PLD Space

>>15171605
Damn, thanks

>>15171670

>>15171675
looks like ekranoplans are back on the menu

>>15171681
>ekranoplans
it's not

>>15171695
well it's not russian but it's a ground effect vehicle anyway

>>15171699
>a ground effect vehicle
it's not

>>15171702
>Libery Lifter will be capable of extended operations at extremely low altitudes, taking advantage of a phenomenon known as a ground-effect.

>>15171280
The colony will have a need for manpower, so the people there will be meaningfully employed, and that work will be to their own benefit and the benefit of their community. The colony will also be small and as a result there will need to be a tight knit community. Add on top of the preflight evaluation and self selection of motivated and passionate people volunteering for the positions and you have a system that is naturally resistant to the circumstances that cause depression.

>>15171705
nuh uh

>>15171705
Let’s go

>>15171719
bulbous and slutty

>>15171318
they realized milled isogrids are not cost-effective
A6 has welded ribs like Falcon 9, combined with a meme cold-working method

>>15171280
Either everyone's gonna be a faggot or everyone will fuck tesla bots

>>15171723
>welded ribs
is that different than baffles or is that the same thing

>>15171723
chud

>>15171726
Baffles are for damping slosh. Ribs are for strength.

>>15171721
*winks at u*

>>15171730
Thanks this is good to know, never realized there was a difference

>>15171675
ground effect vehicles are the spaceplanes of military tech; unfeasible, dangerous and expensive, but there's always a vocal group of autists pushing for them

>>15171723
Why did the Vinci upper stage move away from Common bulkhead?

>>15171741
> flying at low altitude to get more to the gallon is impossible!!

QRD on why RDE is more efficient?
And how efficient is it?

>>15171752
Higher exhaust velocity for same amount of fuel

>>15171759
how does that even help?

>>15170828
I wish I had a chart of various rockets in terms of cost per kilogram to orbit because Saturn V was actually really good.

>>15171773
Becoz roggit goes fasta

>>15171759
How is it achieved? Doesn't that necessitate higher chamber pressure?
not this >>15171773 retard btw

Spacewalk now

>>15171801
It's detonation or something. I'm retard too btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG_Eh0J_4_s
He does say higher pressure and temperatures.

More rde kino
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRMMSyCcTDI

great thing with space is that there is no generation less autistic about it than the other

>>15171746
ECS on Ariane 5 did not share bulkheads either.
Ariane 5 does have common bulkhead on its first stage, but that hydrogen would not touch the "hot" liquid oxygen for more than a minute because the LOx tank is on top and therefore the boil off isn't THAT bad
Provided you launch it right after you fill it up, which is often an overly optimistic assumption.

>>15171844
Yeah I know but the plans before like 2014 or so were definitly for common bulkhead Vinci Upper stage

>>15171773
ke = 1/2mv^2

I like the XEMU

>>15171857
You do not want to be anywhere near those methane lakes. If you fall in you’re not swimming out

Joe Acaba (geologist) is the new chief astronaut of NASA. We are returning to normalcy rockbros

>>15171705
"100 feet" isn't ground effect, that would be more like 10 feet

>mechanical engineer fighter pilot and phd aerospace engineer shuttle veteran performing janitorial tasks outside the station
you love to see it.

https://www.orbireport.com/news/

This site has space news from exactly 20 years ago (january-march 2003), funny

are we a planetary or space habitat colonization general?

>>15171968
both. o'neill cylinder are superior however

>>15171968
Neither, this is starship slipping general

>>15171977
starship fucking general

>>15171977
Twitter screenshots of stupid scam startups general

>>15171930
Ground effect altitude is roughly the wingspan. It varies from vehicle to vehicle. That flying boat proposal would likely be operating somewhere in the ground effect zone.

>>15172020
What exactly is the purpose of proton’s pseudo ‘boosters’?

>>15172026
nevermind I see now. Engine size

>>15172028
It’s actually a transportation issue. Everything in Russia moves by rail, and the largest thing you get ship from Moscow to Baikonur is 4.2x25m. They thought about building a normal rocket with a 4.2m diameter but it ended up too tall to be practical, so they designed a shorter 4.2m common oxidizer tank, then had six engines all drawing from individual fuel tanks which were shipped as separate assemblies and bolted together at the launch site.

>>15172058
Oh huh I didn’t realize the constraints were that small. Either way proton looks sexy

>>15171606
>reusable lander

no

>mass manufactured spacecraft you can do a lot of cool things with

yes

>Starlink Mission
>Starlink Mission
>Starlink Mission
>Starlink Mission
>Starlink Mission
>StarIink Mission
>StarIink Mission
>StarIink Mission
>StarIink Mission
>Starlink Mission

>>15171017
the fucking soiface RCS ports lmao

>>15171296
Under known physics, what could make them obsolete?

>>15170957
Spooky

>>15172115
huge cope. if starship can't be reusable as a lunar lander it has no future as one.
it will not support permanent human presence if it's not reusable

>>15172146
There can be 5 different versions of a starship lander, its mass manufactured, its easy to modify

>>15172149
a crewed vehicle won't be cheap to produce. if it's not reused it has no future and will get outcompeted by a reusable lander.
i am optimistic about starship being reusable but throwing away crew rated vehicles is not going to suffice for anything but flags and footprints.

>>15172146
A single use Starship lander would still be cheaper than reusing Alpaca or National Team multiple times so yeah I don’t think it matters

>>15172124
what, again?

>>15172128
>3D photophoretic aircraft made from ultralight porous materials can carry kg-scale payloads in the mesosphere
>We show that photophoretic aircraft would greatly benefit from a three-dimensional (3D) hollow geometry that pumps ambient air through sidewalls to create a high-speed jet. To identify optimal geometries, we developed a theoretical expression for the lift force based on both Stokes (low-Re) and momentum (high-Re) theory and validated it using finite-element fluid-dynamics simulations. We then systematically varied geometric parameters, including Knudsen pump porosity, to minimize the operating altitude or maximize the payload. Assuming that the large vehicles can be made from previously demonstrated nanocardboard material, the minimum altitude is 55 km while the payload can reach 1 kilogram for 3D structures with 10-meter diameter at 80 km altitude. In all cases, the maximum areal density of the sidewalls cannot exceed a few grams per square meter, demonstrating the need for ultralight porous materials.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2301.04281

>>15170925
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8AisTXgAGA

Tons of new Artemis 1 footage just got posted:
Artemis I Launch - Engineering Views - ML Deck: https://images.nasa.gov/details-KSC-20221116-MH-NAS01-0001-Artemis_I_Launch_Engineering_Views_ML_Deck_LC_39B-3318973
Artemis I Launch - Engineering Views - ML Tower: https://images.nasa.gov/details-KSC-20221116-MH-NAS01-0001-Artemis_I_Launch_Engineering_Views_ML_Tower_LC_39B-3319019
Artemis I Launch - Engineering Views - Pad 39B: https://images.nasa.gov/details-KSC-20221116-MH-NAS01-0001-Artemis_I_Launch_Engineering_Views_Pad_LC_39B-3319021
Artemis I Launch - Engineering Views - Tracking: https://images.nasa.gov/details-KSC-20221116-MH-NAS01-0001-Artemis_I_Launch_Engineering_Views_Tracking_LC_39B-3319023
Artemis I Launch - Engineering Views - Onboard: https://images.nasa.gov/details-KSC-20221116-MH-NAS01-0001-Artemis_I_Launch_Engineering_Views_Onboard_LC_39B-3319020

>>15172223
That deluge system is insane. Also lol I love how the H2 gas spark igniter (idk the official name) just sprays the ass of SLS

>>15172236
>I love how the H2 gas spark igniter (idk the official name) just sprays the ass of SLS
yeah I thought the SLS diapers might ignite

>>15172128
Ultraconstellations