/sci/ - Science & Math

is this energy break down of hitting your toe?

>>15165880
They didn't, they're all still the same force

>>15166273
What?!

>>15166534
On the quantum level there is no distinction between any of the forces, it's only when other mechanisms come into play that they start exhibiting different properties

>>15166563
[citation needed]

>>15166563
>>15166576
also what other mechanisms? The fundamental forces are called fundamental for a reason m8.

>>15166578
The mechanism that anon is talking about is the energy scale. At sufficiently high temperatures the fundamental forces we are familiar with in our everyday life become identical.

>>15166273
>they're all still the same force
And it is called?..

>>15165880
trump divided them

>>15166617
It's in the picture. TOE. Theory of Everything.

>>15166608
>temperatures
what does the kinetics of a molecule have to do with strong and electroweak forces?

>>15166633
it equates to how much energy the particles involved have. at high enough energies the massless photon and massive W & Z bosons act the same. at even higher energies the same is true for gluons and quarks

>>15166633
universe is a fractal, the higher scale you go the more concepts emerge from the holy equation

>>15166639
>massless photon and massive W & Z bosons act the same

well yes because they reach the speed of light and annihilate.
but what does that have to do with the fundamental forces or the distinction between them?

>>15166644
> well yes because they reach the speed of light and annihilate.
no they don't.

> what does that have to do with the fundamental forces or the distinction between them?
because they are the force carrying particles and if they act the same the forces appear the same.

>>15165880
space-time told them so

>>15165880
>he doesn't know

>>15165880
What if they divide again. Do we die then?

>>15165880
God

Energy isn't E=mc2. That's propelled energy. Fuck this world. Full of the retarded.

Energy propelled equals mass times the speed of light squared. No shit Sherlock, stop saying it's energy tho.

>>15166639
>>15166644

>>15168871
>>15166608
I think this shiz is just 2nd law of thermodynamics taking effect m8. The forces themselves actually dont break down, the system simply reaches equilibrium due to being capped by the speed of light.

>>15166617

Electroweak force is still E-M but works under different rules that require very high radiation/EM particles to meaningfully interact with. This matters for things like atomic-level reactions but is not readily observable at the macro level. Same for the strong force. It's really the same theories but at different scales and with different particles.

That's what makes TOE and Gravity compelling because, if we can factor Gravity into all of this, we can meaningfully model all plausible atomic reactions within our universe. Moreso, we could also model a ways to significantly bend the Universe (say, with a black hole) to re-merge the different force strands into a single power source that could be harnessed or used to examine Space independent of spacial reality. Then we can make a proper multiverse theory and determine if other universes exist, and if they do with what forces under what conditions.

>>15166833

No. Look at how we understood Magnetism before we knew it was related to Electricity. These used to be two separate forces with spooky interactions with each other. It took the development of telephony ..and the ability to hear wireless electrical interference from electrical machinery... to formulate both into a unified Electromagnetic theory and a single set of formulas that explain all plausible interactions between electricity and magnetism. Physics is currently attempting to do the same with Gravity and it's relationship to Mass.

>>15166617
>>15166631
just as the reference to the unification of all fields would be the unified field, this force would be called the unified force
in fact, since at that point we would understand that it's just a single force, we probably wouldn't give it a description at all, and it would essentially be a proper noun at that point since it would be the only force acting on anything
in other words, we'd probably quite literally call it: the Force

>>15169017
How do we go from two polarities of charge to three colors of gluons?

>>15165880
Electroweak and EM split because of the higgs. EM split into E and M so photons can propagate in vacuo. The rest were never unified.

>>15169129
>The Tao begot one.
>One begot two.
>Two begot three.
>And three begot the ten thousand things.

>>15169120
>we'd probably quite literally call it: the Force

We could also use a fancy scientific name like "The Second Law of Thermodynamics", which could state stuff like "information and causality cannot exceed the speed of light"

but that's just the thing that slams the forces together though but I guess we can also look at it from the different perspective that it "divides" the forces

>>15169177
>could also use a fancy scientific name like "The Second Law of Thermodynamics"
no?
that's not the same thing at all
>"information and causality cannot exceed the speed of light"
not the same either, and also just plain wrong
the idea that information and causality can't exceed the speed of light is one of the fundamental mistakes of contemporary physics
in fact, there have been plenty of observational evidence to the contrary over the past decades, but that's obviously not enough to uproot and old and mistaken paradigm
science advances one funeral at a time

>>15169183
>there have been plenty of observational evidence to the contrary over the past decades
Proof?

>>15169183
Yes. All of known physics is wrong then, because an anonymous 4chan user says so without any citations or evidence whatsoever.

>>15169185
plenty of people providing experimental evidence here: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Did-I-actually-measure-a-superluminous-signal-thus-disproving-the-relativity-theory
>>15169187
>known physics is wrong then
not really, just relativity theory, which is blatantly wrong
>because an anonymous 4chan user says so
appeals to ridicule are logically fallacious
the truth can be stated by anyone
also, I'm not the only one pointing it out at all

>>15169193
That discussion post is not a peer reviewed scientific publication and does not constitute proof of your claim. Please try again.

>>15169193
Ok so did these supposed FTL signals be tested for inconsistencies

it is well known that quantum entanglement and some other crap like that can cause information to appear to travel faster than light, so it must be rigorously tested for inconsistencies

>>15169185
>>15169193
note particularly the posts made by Steffen Kühn, whom I've personally corresponded with
he describes very simple experiments you can set up to prove for yourself how signals can very easily be propagated faster than light
there's really zero reason whatsoever that you shouldn't be able to propagate signals faster than light, the speed of light is simply defined by the permittivity and permeability of free space, there's not really anything that prevents you from manipulating this through e.g. electric circuitry to achieve values that allow you to transmit even faster
in fact, you could probably even modulate space technologically with a signal that would allow you to transmit light itself faster than what would otherwise be possible, setting up a "highway" of sorts for the light
>>15169202
listen, there's nothing inconsistent about it, it's just relativity theory that's blatantly wrong
>>15169203
already explained:
>in fact, there have been plenty of observational evidence to the contrary over the past decades, but that's obviously not enough to uproot and old and mistaken paradigm
such results won't ever be published in any "peer-reviewed" (least scientific notion imaginable, just groupthink) as long as relativity theory remains the current paradigm, despite it being blatantly wrong
those posts do absolutely constitute proof of the claim
they also describe simple experiments you can do on your own to prove it to yourself
you know, actual science

>>15169205
So no scientific, peer reviewed citations? Thanks for admitting you lied.

>>15169212
plug your ears all you like
I addressed what you just said in the above post
reread it if you want, or keep plugging your ears
either is fine with me

>>15169213
No you didn't. I asked for proof, and you failed to provide proof. That means you lied about the alleged observational evidence. It's easy to get away with lies when you don't need proof. Watch: there's evidence that you're a pedophile. Jannies, clean it up.

>>15169215
>No you didn't.
yes, I did
>I asked for proof, and you failed to provide proof.
I did provide proof
>That means you lied about the alleged observational evidence.
nope, and you can do the experiment yourself as well
you know, actual science

>>15166608
Lol no, at regular room temperature at small enough scales there is no difference between any of the forces and they become indistinguishable, they're all the exact same shit, just depends on how you're spinning or moving or what your charge is, these forces act together to produce unified effects, such as gravity, no there are no such thing as carrier particles, they've never been measured anywhere and have only been mathematically theorized, quantum gravity enthusiasts are searching for something that doesn't exist, no there is no such thing as dark matter, just like all the nuclear forces are acting together to produce a gravitational field, which is why you need so many atoms in the first place and on a single atom level gravity and the nuclear forces are indistinguishable, so do all the celestial bodies in a galaxy come together to produce a larger, unified field, just like how you can take two EM fields of the same frequency and watch them combine into a stronger field, because in the end it's all just the exact same shit.

>>15169221
>carrier particles, they've never been measured anywhere
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_and_Z_bosons#Discovery