/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15140874
No shit sherlock. The best profession to have 500 years ago would be gunsmith + metal worker so you could basically keep yourself armed with primitive weapons like the PPSh-41.

>>15140874
You need a programmer to program the time machine

I'm glad I'm a philosopher. I won't be useless. If I time traveled back 500 years into the past I'd teach the people about the social construction of gender.

>>15140874
I'm a programmer. I could make them a potato battery, i'd just probably have a hard time finding copper and zinc. What would probably be more immediately useful for them is pennecillin
https://gizmodo.com/in-case-of-apocalypse-heres-how-to-make-penicillin-in-1110902296

Making electricity isn't hard. Making an industrial base to produce all the materials for generators and motors is a completely different story.

>>15140874
I am a programmer but I also know economics really well (the right economics, which is austrian economics of course).
I will fix the theory of value, moving away from that faggot aristotle with its "equal value" shit and bring marginalism and the subjective theory of value.
I will then give all the economics knowledge necessary to make society become prosperous.
Of course people were faggots, just like today, and will refuse the gift that would empower them.

>>15140984
Yeah bro because philosophers weren't a thing in the past

>>15141109
Kys

>>15140874
If you bring a hunter gatherer forward in time he'll be useless too. Technology is relative retard.

I can tell people how to do numerical methods with a pen and paper.
I could build a mechanical calculator or typewriter too.

>>15141010
>Into 500ml of cold tap water put 44.0 grams Lactose Monohydrate, 25.0 grams cornstarch, 3.0 grams sodium nitrate, 0.25 grams magnesium sulfate, 0.50 grams potassium phosphate mono, 2.75 grams glucose monohydrate, 0.044 grams zinc sulfate, 0.044 grams manganese sulfate. Then add enough cold tap water to make one liter. Use hydrochloric acid to adjust the pH to between 5.0 and 5.5.
Good luck doing any of that without a well established chemical industry. Also worthy of note is that you get minuscule amounts of penicillin from large amounts of raw material, so it's impossible to make useful quantities of the stuff unless you have a heavily industrialised society already.

>>15141215

>If you bring a hunter gatherer forward in time he'll be useless too.

>hurr durr immigrants bad

Fuck off back to /pol/.

>>15141215
>If you bring a hunter gatherer forward in time he'll be useless too
A hunter-gatherer can survive on his own, unlike you. You know what that means, objectively speaking? It means that you are cattle bred to serve the needs of your farmers.

>>15141215
this

>>15141258
Stunning cope.

>>15140879
A Metal worker?
>Your new machine is an anvil and a hammer.
>You don’t have an extruder
Fuck off, everyone would be useless

>>15141215
people would love to go hunting with him patronage >a local legend

>>15140889
>implying time travel is possible with a computer
hahaha

>>15140874
To make electricity you need a generator. Of course you go "ahaha where the magnets"?
Well you use electromagnets, fed by the same current the generator is creating. Theres always some minimal natural magnetism, that gets some current going that is fed to the electromagnets, as the field increases then the current output also increases. Its very complex so you would do better by just making a van de graff generator which is just static electricity but comes out as a steady drip of sparks.

>>15141256
>A hunter-gatherer can survive on his own
What is this "his own" thing you talk about?

>>15141298
If you dump him outside of your cancerous cattle farm, he can probably make it. Unlike you.

>>15141215
Kek, anarchoprimitivists btfo

>>15141303
You are clearly foaming at the mouth.

>>15141309
get back in your cave ooga booga

>>15141312
What do anarchoprimitivists have to do with this thread? Are you having an episode?

>>15141318
Why are you so triggered by comments against anarchoprimitivsts, mr caveman? :^)

Isn't that true for most modern professions?

>>15140874
good thing time travel doesn't exist haha :)
now go grow my food peasant

>>15141324
You are mentally ill.

>>15141298
Why do these faggots insist on dressing like they're on the Jedi council

>>15141215
>If you bring a hunter gatherer forward in time he'll be useless too. Technology is relative retard.
gun = spear
house = cave
car = horse
smartphone = loneliness
news = story time

>>15141301
>If you dump him outside of your cancerous cattle farm,
Where is that? Point at the map

>>15141215
That's racist.

>>15141393
Your extreme desperation is a concession.

>How do you make this electricity

>>15141400
Please tell me where is this unique, secluded, remote place where a hunter gatherer might survive. You know, unlike the rest of us that survive on literally the rest of the map

>>15140874
Even computer programmers know things in math which were unthinkable to people like plato, for example negative numbers, symbolic algebra, etc. They would be treated like math wizards.

>>15141428
See >>15141400. Your seethe and desperation is palpable.

>>15141109
You'll just bring inflation and fractional reserve banking

>>15141436
Yeah but that's not applied math. Most of math is theoretical garbage that can't be used in practice

>>15141424
This shows the exact problem the OP's image is poking fun at. Sure, you know the principles behind how a generator works, much like everyone else in the developed world with a high school education. But how do you get a pair of powerful magnets in the first place? How do you make a tungsten light bulb and distil from the air the inert gas to fill it? How do you make the miles of almost hair-thin, flawless copper wire for the windings and cables? What do you coat them with? What about the vast tree of tools and machines needed to make those things?

>>15140874
>teaching people about advanced mathematics that can make procedures more efficient is somehow useless
Something tells me you know absolutely nothing about programming.
A good programmer could revolutionise maths and science.

>>15141752
Theres ways around that, you make a van de graaf generator as a DC source handy for magnetizing iron

>>15141298
>mfw KTU is part of the global freemason cabal
I knew those fuckers were doing something extra to get good funding

>>15141424
How the fuck would you make copper wire with ancient tech?

>>15141880
I'm sure there are, the fact we have magnets is evidence enough there are ways to manufacture them without tools that use them. The point I was making is that simply knowing the basic principle behind the operation of a thing is not enough. You need to know how to make all the components, and how to make all the things that make those components, and so on all the day down to whatever technology level you've been transported back to.

>>15141945
>>15141752
This is exactly why I made the thread.
If you can't create electricity from scratch then you're useless

>>15141945
For a van de graff generator you need a leather belt on a loop turning with a lever, you might pay a kid to crank it. Theres always some challenge on doing even the simplest things like this if there are no stores to buy anything.

>>15140879
The best profession 500 years ago would be philosopher and poet.

>>15141962
Just build a huge chemical battery or a really long conductive rod up a mountainside. How would you achieve such things? Slavery

>>15140874

>>15141752
>>15141962
>>15140874
>electricity
The steam engine was the real revolutionary invention, not electricity.
A steam engine is pretty simple to design and build, even if you don't know what you're doing.

>>15140874
What is the difference between engineering and programming?

>>15140874
>If you bring a computer programmer back in time he'll be useless.
he doesn't know

>>15141289
Fucking magnets... How do they work?

>>15140874
>be grug
>grug see funny guy in funny pelts
>grug hear funny guy make silly sound
>grug no understand
>grug bonk funny guy on head and take funny pelts
>grug go home and bonk shegrug on head to make little grug

>>15141752
Magnetism was known at the time and there's no need for a powerful magnet at first.
Pretty much anything can be done with only hand tools when dealing with the relatively soft and fragile materials used in electric circuitry.

>>15142698
A big game changer would be going back and telling Herod of Alexandria how valuable his steam engine device was. Ancient Greek industrial revolution would be sick

>>15141752
>>15140874
I would teach them how to make sandwiches. Put some meat and cheese between some bread and blow their minds.

>>15143107
They didn't need steam, they had slaves. Steam engines are only economically viable when you don't have slaves.

>>15143151
No. Steam is always economically viable when its sufficiently developed if you have a good source of energy. It's also more viable than slaves since slaves need to be fed and pacified while steam engines don't. This is why manual labor was replaced by tractors in many grain farms in Europe and North America. It's both much cheaper and more time efficient to run a tractor rather than a horde of laborers or even to reduce the number of laborers needed to mine by making powered mining drills, etc. The real issue with
>>15143107
is whether or not the Greeks would be able to develop the thermodynamics necessary. Even with calculus and the naturalist philosophy (which Greeks also didn't have) it took Europeans over two centuries to develop the theory of thermodynamics based on the steam engines already developed. Plus there's a materials issue as metallurgy was quite a bit more sophisticated when thermodynamics was being developed as well which helped enable larger and more powerful steam engines.

>>15141692
You could probably do so many astronomical calculations better if you just knew the modern primary school techniques of addition, subtraction, etc. Let's not forget that programmers would also know about things like coordinate systems. That would be a complete game changer

>>15140879
The best profession 500 years ago would be Henry the Eighth by the Grace of God King of England, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith and of the Church of England and also of Ireland in Earth the Supreme Head.

what would be the best thing to learn and teach the people of 500years ago? how to make steel more efficiently/cheaply? gunpowder and shit farms? steam engines?

>>15141215
not quite, hunter gatherers has more knowledge about plants than the modern field botanists.
they also have a better physic so they can be a bodybuilders or something

>>15143593
Marxist theory

>>15141962
How fucking hard is it?
>Find some amber
>Rub it with wool
>Place amber near hair
Voila! Hair moves.

>>15143593
statistics and medical trials and medicine in general

>>15141175
r/whoooosh

>>15140874
I am programmer and I know most basic formulas from physics and maths regarding, mechanics, electromagnetism, pi, e, calculus etc, I also have good general knowledge of things and most importantly I am /pol/ expert and know who caused the downfall of western civilisation.

>>15143726
>Writes down Maxwell's equations
>Gets killed for being a demon
They don't understand what those formulas mean dumbass. You need to build a motor, not write down meaningless symbols.

>>15143727
Obviously I would not be going to medieval church to spread my knowledge, but in large cities there were plenty of artisans and skilled people who likely had above average iq (and weren't total religion fags) and who would find great use of my knowledge.

>>15143737
You don't understand. It would be like if I wrote down
¥€÷£}¢=¢π€{€¢°∆¢∆`=€°€×}¢=
Then explained that this equation governs newtons laws of motion.

>>15143741
Maxwells equations are a bad example, but simple explanations of what electricity is and simplified high school tier equations can be understood by everyone, same with Newton laws of motion or calculus, once that knowledge is spread then is only a matter of time until they build enough of their own knowledge to start understanding Maxwell.

>>15143758
Holy fuck you're a midwit. Symbolic algebra didn't exist for them. You'd be labeled a schizophrenic and killed. You need to present tangible inventions.

>>15143765
Are you seriously so retarded? did you not go to primary or secondary school and learn what an equation is and how to find an unknown x? You think people in middle ages had zero ability to learn algebra if it was shown and explained to them? How fucking thick are you.

>>15140874
Just take any basic scientific calculator to the 80s and we'll have flying cars in no time.

Someone sent 2000 years in the past wouldn't even be able to communicate, let alone teach anything. Maybe some ancient language historian would have a chance but everyone else would be stuck with pantomime.

>>15143829
it's not like you couldn't learn the language in a couple of years

>>15143829
I like how every single poster ITT was too retarded to comprehend the point of OP's meme despite it being trivial.

>>15140874
LMAO math graduate cope
get a real job mathkek

>>15143849
Most people posted genuine replies because the meme is retarded. Some brainlet who managed to finish highschool and who now flips burgers has enough modern knowledge to advance medieval people several centuries forward.

>>15143864
Explain what the meme is trying to convey in your next post.

>>15141245
>Leave bread wrapped in humid cloth

>>15143865
That programmers are most useless of all stem fags and their knowledge is extremely limited or almost non existant, they are code monkeys that don't use/know math or any other stem knowledge, programmers and CS should not be part of STEM and if a programmer is ever sent back to the past he could tech them nothing because he knows nothing of value.
the nuanced reply is that a person with high school knowledge, no even secondary school knowledge knows enough to substancially change the medieval society

>>15143882
See >>15143849

>>15143882
wow, you really are stupid. op's title mentions programmers. the meme itself isn't programmer dependent. you should be embarrassed. let me guess: you're a programmer?

Programming is what makes nuclear reactors work.

>>15143887
Yes I am a programmer, why don't you enlighten me what the meme is all about because I am a too low iq to understand it?

You can literally make electricity from a potato and some iron

>>15143890
kek. the meme is about illusion of knowledge. you don't actually know as much as you think you do. even if you are correct that the knowledge acquired in high school is enough to be revolutionary in ancient times (which you are correct), you assume these kids actually learned what they were taught. all they learned is how to regurgitate, just like you. the brilliant modern man goes back in time and is excited to share his knowledge, much like you. he starts talking about electricity, and the people take genuine interest by asking him what electricity is. upon reflection (and without the aid of the internet), he realizes he can't answer.

you keep arguing in platitudes about how all this knowledge can be disseminated. the entire point of the meme is that pseuds like you have no idea how to actually disseminate knowledge so that OTHER PEOPLE can understand it. all you do is spew out knowledge you've regurgitated, and when it comes to communicating it so that OTHER PEOPLE can understand, you flounder. it's the mark of the pseud.

like i said, you should feel embarrassed.

>>15143903
>you keep arguing in platitudes about how all this knowledge can be disseminated. the entire point of the meme is that pseuds like you have no idea how to actually disseminate knowledge so that OTHER PEOPLE can understand it. all you do is spew out knowledge you've regurgitated, and when it comes to communicating it so that OTHER PEOPLE can understand, you flounder. it's the mark of the pseud.
What tf are you even talking about? Are you trying make a point about some philosophy or metaphysics garbage? Have you not attended school and learned basic math and physics? Can you not pass that knowledge to adults who have no education but aren't retarded and are willing to listen and learn? There is no need to teach them quantum physics so they can understand what electricity REALLY is, a laymans explanation, basic principles and maybe demonstration with some wool and amber or even lighting strike on rainy day will get them going. With math it is even simpler. Jesus F christ what a retard you are.

>>15143920
you sound upset. is that because you're embarrassed but too prideful to admit it?

>>15143151
Have slaves mine coal= Sail steam ships to remote lands to kidnap more slaves= Slave multiplier.
Steam is much better for dumb labor like turning the wheel of pain, use slaves for delicate labor like picking crops.

>>15143925
I am upset because I have realized the other poster is a retard and I have been wasting my time arguing with a retard.

>>15143890
>why don't you enlighten me what the meme is all about because I am a too low iq to understand it?
On a basic level, it's about how most of your "knowledge" is so superficial that you couldn't explain how anything works in a way that it could be implemented. On a slightly deeper level, it's about how most of your "knowledge" is contingent on the weird Matrix of modernity and crumbles outside of its context.

>>15143792
>You think people in middle ages had zero ability to learn algebra if it was shown and explained to them?
You would need to talk to italian mathematicians, the rest of the people would only want the motors. Normal people need to be dragged out of bed to send them to math school, they would kill you

>>15143890
>why don't you enlighten me what the meme is all about because I am a too low iq to understand it?
On a basic level, it's about how most of your "knowledge" is so superficial that you couldn't explain how anything works in a way that it could be implemented. On a slightly deeper level, it's about how most of your "knowledge" is contingent on the weird Matrix of modernity and crumbles outside of its context. On a slightly deeper level than that, it's about how your likes consider themselves to be somehow more "enlightened" than their predecessors, yet if you were placed in their society, you'd be just another pleb, and a useless one at that.

>>15143936
Its a stupid meme because making electricity is not hard. Even in ancient times, assuming you have money to set up a lab you could do it after a few years.

>>15143943
What a mongoloid.

>>15143946
Why are you calling me a mongoloid?

>>15143952
Because you can't seem to wrap your head around what the meme is about even after having it literally spelled out for you.

>>15143954
That some time traveler cant know how to make electricity? But it isn't true, its easy to make electricity. Yes also in ancient times with no shops for electrical supplies.

>>15143957
You're genuinely on the margins of sentience.

>>15143935
There were limited industries and any scientific advancement that gave an edge would be welcomed. Random people likely would not be interested but if there was financial gain then there would be enough people willing to learn and apply their new skills

>>15143943
Don't listen to that idiot. According to him unless you studied philosophy for 50 years then your knowledge is superficial, and you should not teach ancients useful stuff like mechanics, or elctricity but instead you have to be a philosopher and teach them garbage.

>>15143957
not sure if b8. you probably just felt so utterly and completely embarrassed that you're going to double down on stupidity to where people think there's no way anyone can be that dumb, and assume you were trolling all along. on the contrary, idjit, you were never pretending at all.

>>15143959
The fact that all you can do is insult me and others is proof that you have no arguments. You are just throwing a fit because people refuse to go along with

>>15143962
>>15143965
This is what genuine subhumans look like.

>>15143967
Seethe and cope

>>15141251
It's funny because you genuinely believe this

>>15144247
>philocucks actually think this is thoughtful

>>15140874
Personally I think I could for example get people in ancient Rome to mine coal(and fossil fuels in general) and eventually develop a steam engine and speed up technological progress by almost two thousand years.
And afterwards tell people what little that I know about electricity and electromagnetism and even later maybe about transistors and computers.
I have a lot of surface level knowledge about many topics but sadly not much in depth so everything would take a while to engineer.

>>15140874
funny how /sci/ seethes at programmers.
very insecure

>>15143737
>Obviously I would not be going to medieval church
that would be the place that has highest chance of understanding you in medieval times plebbitor.

>>15144422
People in cities, tradesmen, business owners/merchants (non jewish)

>>15140874
Wow ... distributive knowledge is a weird thing huh? Don't you worry, you'll grow out of it kiddo.

>>15143151
reddit take

>>15143150
>anon is robbed and then raped for the meat which only the aristocrats could afford

>>15145467
Nonsense.

>>15140874
A physicist or engineer would also be useless. Physics is built on having a huge library of knowledge that you have access to, and it studies more esoteric problems, and engineering relies on having industrially large pipelines for basic commodities. Have you ever built a PCB from scratch? Do you know every materials practice used for basic technologies?

Nobody would be useful without prep time. Computer science is largely an amalgamation of procedures, methods, and ideas that came from a lot of practical math (i.e. combinatorics, graph theory, and algebra, all of which started out as understanding how to count cows), and so a lot of CS knowledge (not programmer knowledge) related to algorithms or process would absolutely be applicable. I mean, really anything close to math would be identically useful since math has been useful forever.

>>15141215
>If you bring a hunter gatherer forward in time he'll be useless too. Technology is relative retard.

>>15140879
>the best profession is being a mid status craftsmen who has exactly none of the materials, metallurgy, tools, and conventions to do his craft making him useless
not to mention carrying dangerous weapons no one else has and using them belligerently/ignorantly is a good way to get killed in your sleep

>>15141109
you are a retarded cultist who would collapse countries given any time of day. an economy is all about what it has. you can't apply what is already junk science in our time to a completely different time.

>>15143194
Why are the French still refusing to acknowledge their rightful sovereigns? Is it a mental disorder?

Yeah, fact is that 99% people couldn't have a job with their current skill set.

>>15140874
>if time be in past, then value of professions would be different
Damn this is the big brain discussion that /sci/ is all about. I've been missing out.

Surely any 'proper' programmer (not talking guys who take some MATLAB course in their engineering degree) would be useful so long as they could find any scalable/reproducible object that can be made Turing complete? I think even a length of rope can be made programmable.

>>15143606
>15 hunter gatherers defended
>0 hunter gatherers rewarded me with sex
yeah, they'd just fight a fucking car and think tech was filled with demons and shit
he's not going to be outsmarting modern botanists
this noble savage bullshit was a victorian farce

>>15145853
Certain professions should be worried about how obsolete they'd be in another time.
A craftsman would be useful in every age because humans need to build stuff.

Humans haven't needed to code stuff in 199.97k years and maybe won't in the future

lol imagine spending hours online seething at people for being competent in modern society and thinking you're somehow in tune with your ancestors because you fell for a victorian meme

>>15140874
The sad thing is that we evolved with natural skills which are completely worthless in todays world, hence why methamphetamine abuse is so insanely high, aswell as depression and suicide rates, IT jobs are extremely well paid and require you to either give up all happiness in life or be born autistic with savant syndrome

>>15147464
>we evolved with natural skills which are completely worthless in todays world
They're not worthless in "today's world". You're simply forced into a filthy cattle enclosure where you either self-destruct while serving others or end up homeless and starving.

>>15143593
Very good question.

1.1 Mathematics (axioms and proofs, set theory, graph theory, calculus (infinitesimals weren't invented then), linear algebra (by which I mean gauss basically), boolean arithmetic/logic (and fucking get them away from fucking scholasticism! that is what went wrong in the medieval ages among other things.), the idea of functions and operations, if you have time, tell them about things such as complex numbers, number theory, polynomials and notation of all sorts of things.)
1.2 physics (Everything since Newton. This includes differential equations, mechanics, thermodynamics, optics, statistics and error analysis/precision (Gauß) and so on)
2. Mechanical Engineering
3. Metallurgy (This will take a long time. Their main problem was carbon content back then. There really is no efficient way to control it without already having advanced materials at hand. as far as I know.)
4. Civil Engineering
5. As said medicine (This includes germ theory and stuff. Fuck miasma theory! Get *evidence* based.)
6. Chemistry (Everything since Lavoisier)
7. Introduce arab numbers (I like milesian even more - Aristotle is so based)

All of this would have to be done with respect to the scientific method. So, e.g. for Lavoisier you would have to tell them how to look for weight equivalence - inventing the concept of a closed system and stuff.

related:
>>15143720

Also when time travelling you should expect to cause (at least) one huge pandemic because of the immune drift since then. Also you should expect to die upon infection (which can be very soon). So the best thing you could do when time travelling is to ensure to completely burn yourself before you could infect anyone.

>>15143593
>what would be the best thing to learn and teach the people of 500years ago?
What modern culture looks like, with a special emphasis on feminism and transgenderism, highlighting the connection to atheism and industrialization.

>>15147562
Adding to this:

Nutrition was very important back then. Basically any improvement in agriculture would mean wonders to them. Tell them everything about it:
Fertilizer (Guano?) and minerals in general.
Crop sequence
ploughs and how they work
natural selection and how to apply it
food preservation (pasteur), vitamins (they limited sea travel)
make them use foreign plants (potatoes/maize) without predators

Make transport cheaper for them!
roads and make them unify taxes (basically try to centralize as much as possible) - trade works wonders! - also you need to stop robbery by building up a system of criminal punishment and laws (this may anger the church though).

make them organize education

(All of this is written in a very eurocentric perspective. Scientific progress would have developed otherwise in other environments (as possibly even evidenced by arabs vs greeks))

>>15147639
Other:
introduce them to the concept of mass production (which wasn't possible back then because of transportation costs - transport is very central as you see)

Regarding chemistry: Introduce them to the following concepts:
reaction
particle
energy
state of matter
and explain what they mean. Basically this would advance them from alchemy to chemistry (if done professionally and solely evidence based - otherwise you will end up with shit cargo cult science).

Regarding metallurgy:
This really is hard to do good with the little tools you have available (See when oxygen converters were developed). Basically you should try to spread Puddling as far and as wide as possible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puddling_(metallurgy) ).

>>15144422
True. Monasteries were *the thing* back then (basically the church was what politics is today). Otherwise try to go to the rulers of your region and help them.

>>15142083
Sadly now I can’t get anyone to read my poetry.

>>15140874
I know expected value and probability so I could introduce forms of gambling

Has anyone read this book? It looks interesting but my local library doesn’t have it yet

>>15140879
>>15145790
You'd also have to know a bit of chemistry and how to make smokeless powder, as well as how to make metal parts strong enough to withstand the pressures of smokeless powder.

>>15141109
This, but you'd have to get people to take you seriously and view you as one of the brightest men on Earth. Giving people of the world of 500 years ago knowledge of modern mathematics and how to apply them through engineering would instantly make yourself look like a genius. People would want to use your inventions and receive tutoring from you, and eventually, you'd likely be making enough money to become politically influential enough to create a libertarian, freedom-loving society that would go on to conquer the world and spread it's libertarian, freedom-loving culture.

>>15141251
>>15144064
He's making fun of the fact that most immigrants who come to first world countries from first world shitholes don't have the knowledge and skill needed to be productive in a first world country. They also don't have respect for the alien population of the country they're living in, so they just end up committing theft, rape, and terrorizing the local population instead.

>>15148102
>i'm a massive attention whore, i need others to devote their lives to heaping praise on me, otherwise i am unsatisfied with the outcome of my efforts
you're too self centered to ever write anything that anyone else would want to read

>>15141251
>>15144064
He's making fun of the fact that most immigrants who come to first world countries from third world shitholes don't have the knowledge and skill needed to be productive in a first world country. They also don't have respect for the alien population of the country they're living in, so they just end up committing theft, rape, and terrorizing the local population instead.

Import the third world, become the third world