/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15118049
Yes. At the very least, most in STEM are midwits and pseuds. It's worse in medicine.

I think it's because a lot of people come from schools full of dumbasses so they appear smarter by comparison, so are praised and told to study science, engineering etc.

>>15118049
Nothing to do with science. Everything to do with the "scientific" establishment.

>>15118049
Applies to some scientists, doesn't apply to a single pure mathematician.

>>15118049
Yes. Most scientists are mere technicians. They have no idea of what science is (other than Popper regurgitations) and very little conceptual and creative capacity.

A scientist is no different than a school bus driver: both are professionals trained in a specific task.

>>15118138
Ortega y Gasset wrote some very fine pages about the midwittery of the scientists in his Rebellion of the Masses.

>>15118138
wow you described me without even seeing me wtf psychic ass mutherfucker

>>15118049
It's true. The vast majority of progress in science comes from a very small minority of geniuses (like me).

>>15118160
>By mass – as I pointed out at the start – is not to be specially understood the workers; it does not indicate a social class, but a kind of man to be found today in all social classes, who consequently represents our age, in which he is the predominant, ruling power. We are now about to find abundant evidence for this.
Who is it that exercises social power today? Who imposes the forms of his own mind on the period? Without a doubt, the man of the middle class. Which group, within that middle class, is considered the superior, the aristocracy of the present? Without a doubt, the technician: engineer, doctor, financier, teacher, and so on. Who, inside the group of technicians, represents it at its best and purest? Again, without a doubt, the man of science. If an astral personage were to visit Europe to-day and, for the purpose of forming judgment on it, inquire as to the type of man by which it would prefer to be judged, there is no doubt that Europe, pleasantly assured of a favorable judgment, would point to her men of science. Of course, our astral personage would not inquire for exceptional individuals, but would seek the generic type of “man of science,” the high-point of European humanity.

>And now it turns out that the actual scientific man is the prototype of the mass-man. Not by chance, not through the individual failings of each particular man of science, but because science itself – the root of our civilization – automatically converts him into mass-man, makes of him a primitive, a modern barbarian. The fact is well known; it has made itself clear over and over again; but only when fitted into its place in the organism of this thesis does it take on its full meaning and its evident seriousness. […]

>>15118194
>What happens is that, enclosed within the narrow limits of his visual field, he does actually succeed in discovering new facts and advancing the progress of the science which he hardly knows, and incidentally the encyclopedia of thought of which he is conscientiously ignorant. How has such a thing been possible, how is it still possible? For it is necessary to insist upon this extraordinary but undeniable fact: experimental science has progressed thanks in great part to the work of men astoundingly mediocre, and even less than mediocre. That is to say, modern science, the root and symbol of our actual civilization, finds a place for-the intellectually commonplace man and allows him to work therein with success. The reason of this lies in what is at the same time the great advantage and the gravest peril of the new science, and of the civilization directed and represented by it, namely, mechanization.

>[…] previously, men could be divided simply into the learned and the ignorant, those more or less the one, and those more or less the other. But your specialist cannot be brought in under either of these two categories. He is not learned, for he is formally ignorant of all that does not enter into his speciality; but neither is he ignorant, because he is “a scientist,” and “knows” very well his own tiny portion of the universe. We shall have to say that he is a learned ignoramus, which is a very serious matter, as it implies that he is a person who is ignorant, not in the fashion of the ignorant man, but with the petulance of one who is learned in his own special line.

>>15118194
>Who is it that exercises social power today? Who imposes the forms of his own mind on the period? Without a doubt, the man of the middle class

>>15118201
>And such in fact is the behavior of the specialist. In politics, in art, in social usages, in the other sciences, he will adopt the attitude of primitive, ignorant man; but he will adopt them forcefully and with self-sufficiency, and will not admit of – this is the paradox – specialists in those matters. By specializing him, civilization has made him hermetic and self-satisfied within his limitations; but this very inner feeling of dominance and worth will induce him to wish to predominate outside his speciality. The result is that even in this case, representing a maximum of qualification in man – specialization – and therefore the thing most opposed to the mass-man, the result is that he will behave in almost all spheres of life as does the unqualified, the mass-man.

[…]

>The specialization, then, that has made possible the progress of experimental science during a century, is approaching a stage where it can no longer continue its advance unless a new generation undertakes to provide it with a more powerful form of turnspit.

>But if the specialist is ignorant of the inner philosophy of the science he cultivates, he is much more radically ignorant of the historical conditions requisite for its continuation; that is to say: how society and the heart of man are to be organized in order that there may continue to be investigators. The decrease in scientific vocations noted in recent years, to which I have alluded, is an anxious symptom for anyone who has a clear idea of what civilization is, an idea generally lacking to the typical “scientist”, the high-point of our present civilization. He also believes that civilization is there in just the same way as the earth’s crust and the forest primeval.

>>15118049
What they lack in intelligence, they certainly make up for in dishonesty and cowardice.

ITT, self-purported intellectual elites express the opinions of others

>>15118160
Knowing what some pretentious 20th century philosophers wrote about how soientists fail to meet their snobby and ridiculous standards for their purely hypothetical model of "real science" does not make you smart. At best, it makes you come off as "informed".

>>15118287
>>15118288
>midwit animals seethe

>>15118308
midwits do seethe at dimwits who pretend to be geniuses. it's the hierarchy of intellect.

>>15118310
There's no point even insulting you. Your existence is already hell. Imagine spending every day of your life desperately coping with the dissonance between your intellectual aspirations and average intelligence.

>>15118312
most people sleep for 8 hours a day and don't need to use their brain during that time. you've given me a useful hint to which mental illnesses you suffer from. let me guess: you're a "night owl" who has an irregular sleep schedule, caffeinates out of his mind and believes he genuinely has adhd. how close am i?

>>15118288
The fact that your immediate interpretation is to assume that I posted those paragraphs in order to "look smart" instead of simply to share a possible explanation for the phenomenon suggests that you are in a bad mood. Did Ortega hurt your feelings?

Also, you seem to be unable to read. Ortega is not saying scientists should meet some incredible standard of polymathy. He is simply saying they shouldn't assume their specialized knowledge transfers to other areas. It's not that Carl Sagan should know Ancient Greek and be an expert in history, it's just that he shouldn't spread made-up lies about the Library of Alexandria on television, which he not only did but also used as an example to pontificate on political topics of which he had mere high school level knowledge. This is not a hard standard to meet...
And he's not proposing any new model of "real science". He explicitly states that specialization works: it does indeed help science advance. He's criticizing the social effects of it when it comes to the attitudes of scientists. Reread the text.

>>15118315
About as close as you are to being the intellectual you so desperately want to be. It's funny how you try to elevate yourself above "dimwits". "Dimwits" have some place in the world. You have none. You are the most deformed and dysgenic life form on this planet. It's hard to imagine a more absurd and meaningless existence than yours. If a nigger bashes your skull in, it would be an act of mercy.

>>15118203
It's true

>>15118344
>Nigger worship
Keep digging homey. Why do you seethe so much at the mere prospect of not being intelligent?

>>15118348
The very essence of this scam is that "middle class" golems like you actually believe they matter. They unironically believe they decide their own opinions. It's funny.

>>15118354
I'm not middle class
>They unironically believe they decide their own opinions.
They don't, and it's not necessary for them to choose to be the moving force

>>15118205
>>15118201
>>15118194
Holy shit this was written 100 years ago, no way it's so actual

>>15118144
Try again
https://redstate.com/alexparker/2022/04/15/university-orders-professors-to-decolonize-math-think-twice-before-citing-white-or-male-mathematicians-n551065

>>15118363
>Redstate
This isn't /pol/ kiddo. Keep your far right fascist media to yourself.

>This isn't /pol/ kiddo. Keep your far right fascist media to yourself.

>>15118363
Pure math is incorruptible, and the education system has nothing to do with math

>>15118364
>fascist
This is reddit kiddo, keep your soviet screeching to yourself

You might consider moving to the other side of the Berlin wall, which was officially called the "Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart"

>>15118369
But I wasn't responding to a statement about pure math, but about pure mathematicians

>>15118375
>This is Reddit
Fuck off back to your preferred website.

>>15118363
>https://redstate.com/alexparker/2022/04/15/university-orders-professors-to-decolonize-math-think-twice-before-citing-white-or-male-mathematicians-n551065
So who cares? As long as they don't ban the citation of jous, math will be fine

>>15118380
Obvious typo. Reddit is the place where everyone screeches about fascists

>>15118389
Freudian slip

>>15118379
Claptonbros, we won!

>>15118049
This may come as a shock to you, but most people are of average intelligence.

>>15118456
Not in STEM, no. You need to have an IQ of 120 to even have a CHANCE to pass STEM subjects.
t. 30 year old dropout that studied 60+ hours a week and failed his subjects because my IQ is in the high 90s.

>>15118509
Kek mate. I have a tested 95 IQ and completed a PhD in physics. I barely even studied. Never took notes, except that one time where I got a B- so I stopped taking notes. Lowest grades I received were Cs in memorization, association and essay writing classes outside of STEM. You're just coping because you didn't crack the puzzles. On top of that, I'm dyslexic.

>>15118160
>other than Popper regurgitations
>>15118049
Ok, what is science?

>>15118581
Let me guess, diversity candidate?

>>15118581
Alright. Tell me how to "crack the puzzle" then.
And provide proof that your IQ is 95

>>15118594
White male.
>>15118600
My IQ test was over 15 years ago. The records are gone by now. idk what to tell you mate. I followed the examples in the textbooks. It was like cooking. Try to follow the instructions. Fail. Identify what step you messed up. Try again. Repeat until you can cook a good dish. I listened thoroughly to what my profs said and was able to reliably predict what would be on exams and studied the correct content

>>15118614
I stopped attending lectures entirely when I failed two entire semesters despite preparing for lectures, going to them, taking notes etc.
I actually passed MORE exams when I never sat in a single lecture room. I still failed one too many times and got kicked out.

>>15118594
>>15118600
>>15118614
Worth noting when I took the physics GRE I scored in the bottom 10 percentile. Took it again, studied more. Bottom 25 percentile. Idk why they accepted me to grad school desu. I must have had good letters of rec

>>15118620
That is still not believable unless they gave you almost the exact same questions again

>>15118620
Do you do well on long-term projects relative to tests?

I have a hypothesis that IQ tests favor ADHD types that can hyperfocus for a few hours but are bad at the longer term projects that matter in real life.

>>15118749
Don't really know how to quantify that. What would be a good way to know?
>>15118728
Don't care.

>>15118160
>Yes. Most scientists are mere technicians. They have no idea of what science is (other than Popper regurgitations) and very little conceptual and creative capacity.
It's not even that. The way science works is inherently set up to make sure doing science is borderline impossible. You need to churn out as many papers and grant applications as quickly as you can. Nobody is ever gonna check the work of 99% of scientists because nobody gives a fuck, only the top few institutions get all the citations and attention. Everyone else is just coasting along on whatever cope grants they can find.

t. "scientist" at a state institute. What I do doesn't matter to anybody and I know it. Just a pseudo-government job.

>>15118287
the schizos aren't wrong. unless you're at like MIT or some industry leader's private lab you're just a grifter.

t. grifter

>>15118049
always has been since Newton. A handful of geniuses make the true advances, hundreds of midwits do the boring but necessary work of applying them to this or that problem. Doesn't take more smarts than being an electrician, smith or in fact farmer. They all use "applied science". Higher education is extremely overrated and inflated

>>15118315
bro wtf are u talkn about lol

>>15118381
>As long as they don't ban the citation of jous, math will be fine
The vast majority of mathematicians that ever mattered were non-jewish white men.

>>15118581
>>15118614
>>15118620
poast dissertation

>>15118871
No. Kys

>>15118620
Woah, I heard about a guy a couple years below me in grad school who got in with those exact numbers. Small chance I know who you are LOL

Sorry to say it, but it's a sign of a massively decaying educational system that you got in with those scores. The PGRE is easy as fuck

>>15118871
>exams
Anon doesn’t even know how a phd works

>>15118910
nta, but name one person who earned a phd without completing a bachelor's

>>15118910
Uh, what? Exams are absolutely part of a PhD currculum.

>>15118880
LARP
>>15118910
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis
are you intentionally being retarded?
gay nigger faggot

>>15118927
Greta Thunderburp has a PhD, she was never even able to complete high school.

>>15118957
i said earned a phd.

>>15118308
>>15118312
>>15118344
80 IQ

>>15118964
But anon she earned it by saying, “how dare you” dismissively to those adults at the UN.

>>15119040
Well, I'm convinced

>>15118581

>>15118049
The average STEM person is just a robot, nothing more than that. But, if you find someone with interest in philosophy of science/epistemology or something like that then that's a person with a high understanding of what science is really about

>>15118160
This, there's a lack of understanding of epistemological principes of science. The average scientist don't know about current epistemological debates and can't spell others name that popper or kuhn

>>15118205
>>The specialization, then, that has made possible the progress of experimental science during a century, is approaching a stage where it can no longer continue its advance unless a new generation undertakes to provide it with a more powerful form of turnspit.

As far as I know, I can find two proposals to overcome this: 1) systems theories, with a focus on interdisciplinaries, like Mario Bunge's materialism or Niklas Luhmann's constructivist system theories and all the cybernetics guys. And 2) marxists that proposes that dialectics logic is a superior stage and it's gone to overcome the obsolote formal logic

>>15119461
anon, it's losing its humour

>>15118049
modern soientists are just a degree meal bean counters. No intuition, no imagination, no understanding, just vocational training on hos to use beakers and pipets no different than any other assembly line worker. I have met many in my day and most are as retarded as a cab driver or grocery bagger

>>15119489
degree *mill

>>15118049
Yes, i'm a midwit which only has good ideas but i suck at math

>>15119461
>>15119486
I have a better one.

>>15118049
One can be an idiot with a high IQ. If you know you know.

>>15119539
/sci/ still wins, sorry

>>15119851
>>15119539
Oh wow look. I was called "schizo" here for years for being the smartest person on this board. What a shock. This board is all hacks, this no surprise to anyone with a tripe digit IQ. Most the posters on this board are special ed levels of stupid

>>15119870
>/x/ fag thinks he has a high iq
>/sci/entist proves he has an even higher iq
>/x/ fag seethes and schizos out
congratulations. now take your meds.

>>15118283
why don't we have tests that measure dishonesty quotient or cowardice quotient if those characteristics are interchangeable with intelligence?

>>15118049
Most people are low IQ. STEM has a higher average than most fields, though it is going down with time

>>15120198
>why don't we have tests that measure dishonesty quotient or cowardice quotient
They do. Every interaction academiatards have with each other is a dishonesty or cowardice test. :^)

>>15119917
There is no question I absolutely mog you intellectually and make you look like a literal retarde. You are a child playing grown up

>>15121404
>t.

>>15121408
I mog you intellectually and homosexually.

>>15121408
case in point, the superior shitting method

>>15118871
>poast

Yes however the validity of a person's words are based on social status and not intelligence.

>>15118344
Extraordinarily based.

>>15118312
>There's no point even insulting you
>proceeds do it anyway because triggered
You sure showed him

>>15122781
I see my objective description of his existence resonated with you and caused a flareup of angst.

>>15118049
>and low IQ.
He didn't say anything about IQ. I guess you must be one of the stupid ones

>>15122792
I (as well as everyone else) forgot whatever generic insult you made before I even clicked post but you tell yourself what you need to little buddy

>>15118049
Watson also got cancelled for saying black people's lower average IQ is genetic. lol

>>15122823
>I (as well as everyone else)
Like clockwork. What is it with midwits constantly trying to prove themselves to, or seeking support from, some imaginary audience?

>>15122830
that video always makes me kek, the dude looks like he's literally forcing himself not to die through sheer willpower and people still gave him a platform for his angry old man rants just so they could cancel him

>>15122868
>that video always makes me kek, the dude looks like he's literally forcing himself not to die through sheer willpower and people still gave him a platform for his angry old man rants just so they could cancel him
But was he wrong?

>>15122838
You are infantile enough to say "huur duur you forgot ? thak make u dum" so it was strictly necessary when talking (down) to you to remind you that everyone else forgot it too. Your petulant need to tell yourself a hidden meaning behind a completely transparent post and then share that revelation with the audience, while claiming I was appealing to an audience or whatever you invented in your mind, is quite an impressive projection.
Go ahead and have the last word little buddy and tell me, the real audience and the imaginary one what you need to tell yourself yet again.

>>15122877
>an entire paragraph of seethe

>>15122878
Bow before me midwit

>>15122907
Obsessed and undermedicated.

>>15122910
>fell for the bait

>>15122919
>it keeps trying to talk to me
Uttery obsessed.

>>15122920
>still falling for the bait

>>15122931
I get that you think you're "baiting", but you're legit mentally ill.

>>15118138
>It's worse in medicine
pls

>>15118160
Alright Gasset shill, you've convinced me. I'll give him a read.

>>15122838
ESL.

>>15123283
Being an ESL automatically makes him better than you, golem.

>>15123288
Wrong.

>>15123289
Imagine having pride in being a member of the inbred, dysgenic race responsible for every ill under the sun. The anglo and the jew are one.

>>15123293
Wrong.

>>15123296
Hush, animal. You will never have the capacity to master even your own abominable language, let alone a second one.

>>15123301
Wrong.

>>15118049
>biologist (by far the lowest IQ field in science, being slightly above psychology) calling other scientists dumb
Lmao, my uncle who is a massive midwit and barely passed first year maths has a PhD in biology, wish I was making this up. I hope he is referring to other biologists and not real scientists (math, physics, engineering)

>>15118143
This. In school right now and I can't believe how most students only memorize notes and forget the material after. People tell me they would like to read more books on their subjects but don't have time because they have to study for tests. So they know facts but never bothered developing a framework for understanding all of them. These people only know how to be rewarded for obedience and lack of curiosity. Of course they won't innovate. I mention some ideas I have to the other stem students and frequently they respond with how they just have no creativity at all, and can't come up with ideas, and that's what they like about stem subjects.

>>15123328

>>15123328
>People tell me they would like to read more books on their subjects but don't have time because they have to study for tests.
they are lying

>>15122932
>still falling for the bait

Depends on where.
I did by BEng at a uni ranked 45 out of around 80 some years back. I graduated 2nd out of 150+ students. The guy who came first for 0.28% more than me. Number 3 got 5% lower than me.
Then I went to Cambridge for a taught post graduate (it was cheaper than Imperial, which I also got into). I scored 10-20% above the mean or median for most tests and reports. I have never felt smart or intelligent, I've always felt like a retard, but at Cambridge I met some absolute geniuses, that humbled me further.

>>15124842
got*
Fuck autocorrect

>>15118368
He kinda cute

>>15118049
>smartest guy in his field calls everyone else stupid

Even the stupid or dull guys he's referring to are smarter than most of us. He's saying they're stupid and dull relative to himself.

>>15123328
>developing a framework for understanding all of them
Can I still do this if I have a shitty memory?

>>15118834
Definitely inflated. Higher education was supposed to be for the talented inquisitive type, not a job requirement or a status symbol

>>15124130
this
people are always mysteriously too busy with other more important thing to do any more than the bare minimum effort to get what they want. people who have a desire to learn outside of whats needed to pass the exam will make time to do so.

>>15118049
To be fair, the dummies are probably over-represented in biology and zoology (and maybe chemistry to a lesser degree) because they lack a strict math filter.