/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15117368
They're more efficient and also allow greater personal independence. The latter is the real issue that causes regulation, in much the same way that wood-fired stoves are regulated heavily in many locales.

>>15117368
I can't believe there are households which do not have gas stoves. So many tasty food...

>new research

>>15117368
They could have just looked at data in any other country that uses predominantly gas stovetops and measure that against childhood asthma data.

>>15117385
Ahah. Nevermind. Leave it to Netherlands to cuck out to something retarded.
https://nltimes.nl/2023/01/09/cooking-gas-behind-70000-kids-asthma-symptoms

>>15117368
>energy is transferred from chemical (coal) to electrical to thermal
I don't think what you're using is an induction stove if you need to shovel coal into it

>>15117368
Don't know. But most energy in the US is from natural gas with coal in second place, and nuclear right behind it by a small margin. And all renewables added together by a small margin behind that. Also I'd imagine a power plant regardless what it was burning would have as little wasted heat as possible, unlike a cooktop.

>>15117368
Is there anything that's not going to be banned?

>>15117384
jew wants to ban gas. what a surprise

>>15117368
if only everything could be as safe and effective as the covid vaccine

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KuUDZi-qOPU

>>15117368
Gas stoves have advantages and disadvantages, same as electric stoves.

Gas stoves transfer heat quicker, which is good for some things such as boiling water/food.

Electric are better for low heat or oven cooking.

Just depends.

Main advantage of gas stove is it can double as a heat source if electricty goes out and there is no central heat due to lack of fans. Of course a wood stove or two would be better in that situation, but Democrats are regulating wood stoves into extinction also.

Bottom line, get what you want now, "pre-ban", while you are still able to easily find it and don't have to pay "black market" prices later on.

>>15117471
Kek! Look at Afro starting at that white booty. Get a rope!

>>15117368
Yes, its also why switching to electric to reduce CO2 emissions is retarded if your area's electric mix is mostly coal

>>15117368
Gas is cheaper than induction stove

And what are you going to do about it?
That's right.
Nothing

Is there any evidence this is actually dangerous?
It looks astroturfed to hell and back

>>15118823
No evidence at all. Studies showed a 20 ppm trace of methane around the burner, but that's the same as you'd get in a poorly ventilated room after eating a burrito, and we're not going to be banning Mexicans any time soon.

>>15117368
You VILL use electric-everything to make it easier for them to track, control and tax your energy consumption in the green ghetto.

>>15117371
I discovered recently that
one) to buy firewood to burn here it must be kiln dried below a certain level due to "clean air" regulations
two) it is very difficult to get the required license to set up a wood drying kiln
three) kiln drying is all but meaningless if the wood sits around anywhere for long enough that it absorbs moisture from the air

>>15117471
I've told you before, change your link I'm not getting a google account to play this shit

>>15118849
Despite this leftists will trump it as fact just like they do with global warming.

>>15119159
Of course they well. I swear they're masochists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

It's an ideological issue now, science doesn't matter.

>>15119195
It always was one. There is no science.

>>15119205
>>15119195
Well, that's awkward.

>>15119195
Just make it a race issue, point out how it's discriminating against minorities

>>15119195
That is technically true, but it has to be at relatively high concentrations. Otherwise it wouldn't be safe to use as an anaesthetic.

>>15119263
They don't care. They don't even care that all kitchens have fume hoods. The whole thing is just a gay attempt to steal one more piece of independence away from you.

>>15117417
You're using the electric grid which runs on coal.

>>15119270
Use nuclear, you archaic failure for a nation

Uranium splits and my electric stove lids. Fuck coal in any form

>>15119301
Are you French?

>>15119311
No but We team :)

>>15119195
>drinking gasoline makes you retarded so lets ban gasoline

>>15119321
That's for australians.

>>15118853
>ou VILL use electric-everything to make it easier for them to track, control and tax your energy consumption in the green ghetto.
They can also turn off your electricity with the push of a button or the click of a mouse, if your "social credit score" displeases them.

>>15117368
>Health fears
>hysterical screeching about made up imaginary "health hazard"

>been using gas stoves, furnaces, etc for the last 500 years. no problems for non-retards
>suddenly out of no where its time for hysterical screeching about "the great gas stove menace"

>>15119682
I mean, they could already cut of your gas in the same way

>>15119267
>They don't even care that all kitchens have fume hoods.
unfortunately not all do, which should be the REAL point of all this discussion instead of this bullshit electric vs gas debate
if you wanna stop people huffing stove fumes make it so people can't cut corners with putting the proper ventilation and stuff in and keeping it maintained

>>15119692
Recently wood stoves were banned in a lot of locations over "air quality fears" which made off-grid living essentially impossible where those laws were put in place. Make no mistake they know what they're doing.

>>15117473
normal electricity heated =/= induction
induction boils water faster than gas

>>15119682
>They can also turn off your electricity with the push of a button or the click of a mouse
Of course. That's one of the things implied by "control". They can do anything from making electricity prohibitively expensive, to selectively cutting your power, to driving your electric clown cart into a concrete wall at 200 mph and saying you killed yourself if you're a whistleblower. Imagine allowing such a thing to happen. Maybe golems deserve this.

i was literally talking to my mom about this the other day.
by using an electric heater, you're taking fuel (maybe even natural gas) and it's being burned in a power plant to boil water, and that water spins a turbine to make electricity. then that electricity travels down the wires to your house, where you turn it into heat again to cook your food.

or, you just burn natural gas on site to cook your food.

if the choice is between burning natural gas at your house to heat food, or using electricity made from burning natural gas to heat your food (and chances are it is from natural gas, because about 40% of the electricity in the US is from natural gas) it is absolutely more efficient to use a natural gas stove. an electrical one wastes more gas per unit heat, because you're converting the gas into heat, then into electricity, then back into heat, and losing power every step of the way.

it would be one thing if only a small part of our power generation was natural gas, but it's not.

>>15118866
it's about removing volatiles from the wood, not actually removing the water. terpenes, terpenoids, ketones, etc.

I get the feeling that once enough cities ban gas stoves, holdouts will just buy those portable butane burners - especially if the rebates for an electric stove are paltry.

>>15120272
It's about making it as difficult as possible to live independently from the technocattle system. Any other pretext is cope and anyone who believes the governmentino is just regulating everything for your own good, is stupid at best, and something much worse on average.

a third word three stone cooking stove where you build a fire around a few rocks and plonk a cook pot on top is more energetically efficient by a long margin than an electric cooker.

>>15119814
Most people hurt by this have a freestanding tank.

>>15119814
But then you'd have the option of buying gas externally and hooking it up to your pipes.
You can't do the same with electricity.

>>15120293
ok

>>15119814
>they could already cut of your gas in the same way
Low IQ take. You "could" do anything if you jump through enough hoops but the intention here is to centralize everything and minimize the number of hoops you jump to, the number of failure points for your scheme, the potential for noncompliance by entities you don't directly control.

>>15120266
Powerplant has pretty high efficiency, when most of the heat of the gas stove goes into the air of the kitchen instead of your food.

Electric induction cooktops have 99% efficiency.

>>15117368
I guess depends on how the gas is transported to your home, if it's trhought pipes then maybe but if you have to buy them in gas bottles then you account transportation costs too. The positive is that it can be readily stored where it is used.

>>15120369
with the most efficient power plant and the lowest transmission losses (57% and 8%), that's a (.57*.92*.84) = 44% efficiency per unit gas from an induction top.
and a low value of (.45*.85*.84) = 32% efficiency.
so, probably about the same.
dollar for dollar, gas is likely cheaper in most places in america for given quantity of heat generated.

>>15120357
Like a get the jab or we cut off your power deal?

>>15117368
This is about indoor air pollution. Not global warming. You idiots are too easily triggered.

Imagine having a fire place but with no chimney. Just because the flame has no smoke, doesn't mean there is no fumes.
Anyone too willfully suborn to understand this deserves the brain damage they get from living in a home filled with carbon monoxide and formaldehyde.

>>15120391
You didn't get the corporate mRNA shot so you can't go to work, but electricity prices have suddenly spiked (because of le Current Year pandemic, trust me, goy) so you can't afford to cook or heat your home. I guess you can go to the local Free Gibs Center, but uhh, you can only get gibs if you get your jab. Are you hungry enough yet?

>>15119263
Nigga that's N2O. NO2 is car exhaust fumes.

>>15120272
Why? Those volatiles burn better than wood.

>>15120369
>Powerplant has pretty high efficiency
Carnot will disagree with this.

>>15120553
i guess it depends on what you mean by better.
example, charcoal. which is wood without any volatiles.
some of them are not particularly good for you to breathe, depending on the wood.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7599736/

>>15117368
you would think that, but in reality it's basically the same

10-30% of the gas will leak out on the way from well to stove because fittings, welds, etc. aren't perfect, are decades old and generally not maintained unless it gets bad enough to cause alarm
gas burner is 90% efficient at converting chemical to thermal energy
but then 50% of the thermal energy will go around the pot and out the chimney (so to speak)
overall ~40-30%

combined cycles coal plants can reach 60% efficiency, old and dirty ones can be as low a 30% efficient to thermal and thermal to electricity (let's ignore nuclear, hydro and solar for now)
distribution by wires is about 90% efficient
induction is like 90% efficient because you're heating the pot and stuff in it (losses in inductor are not significant)
overall ~45-25%

>>15119195
I believe LA photochemical smog (full of NOx) is partly why liberals from there are so deranged, but I have no proof of it

>>15119263
you are mixing up N2O and NO2

>>15117368
>have forest
>cut wood
>replant the tree after the cut
>free cozy and warm

>>15119195
>It's an ideological issue now, science doesn't matter.
Correct and just as it should be. Science has no say on whether or not someone should use a gas stove. It never did. It never will. "Regulating" gas stoves is pure ideology, regardless of what dumpster science you try to use as a pretext.

>>15117368
90% of all Canadians cook with electric. I’m a boomer and I’ve never lived somewhere with a gas stove. In fact the only people I know with gas stoves are relatives in Ohio.

>>15121725
And yet, most of the people who want to ban the public from being able to purchase gas stoves in the US, are users of gas stoves themselves, as seen in >>15119218.

>>15119218
"Rules for Thee, Not for ME!"

The slogan of all politicians, especially leftist ones (which lets be honest, 99% of politicians are now socialists)

>>15119682
>They can also turn off your electricity with the push of a button or the click of a mouse, if your "social credit score" displeases them.


>>15118853
>You VILL use electric-everything to make it easier for them to track, control and tax your energy consumption in the green ghetto.


>>15119267
>The whole thing is just a gay attempt to steal one more piece of independence away from you.


>>15120221
>Recently wood stoves were banned in a lot of locations over "air quality fears" which made off-grid living essentially impossible where those laws were put in place. Make no mistake they know what they're doing.


You will own nothing, and you better like it.
Goys don't need stoves, you will eat the bug paste. It doesn't need cooking.

>>15121698
>>have forest
>>cut wood
>>replant the tree after the cut
>>free cozy and warm
>EPA says some undiscovered mold lives in those trees.
>Government bans you from cutting them, and fines you if you even pick up branches.
>Government declares it a refuge site sanctuary wildlife preserve, and takes it from you.
>Now you homeless, eating the bugs in the government housing project.

>>15120413
revolution occurs.
world society collapses.
Steampunk future world.
It's coming.

>>15122700
>revolution occurs.
No it doesn't. You are cattle and you will get your corporate mRNA shot. You will probably harbor violent hatred towards the few who didn't and wish your corporate government put them all in concentration camps. We've already seen how it all plays out. Most "people" aren't truly human.

>>15120240
I've used 240V commercial induction cooktops and usually found that a nearby gas range is faster to boil for the exact same pot. And induction is much more prone to burning food because the bottom of the pot is superheated.

>>15123323
And FWIW I prefer electric coil cooktop overall for home use.

>>15123327
Hate the way they look.

>>15123484
They heat more evenly than most gas ranges, between conduction and radiation you can control heat very well and they don't superheat pan bottoms like induction does, and the coil has a good chunk of thermal mass.

>>15117371
>They're more efficient and also allow greater personal independence.
Same reason commies hate cars and promote mass transit, which only takes you to places the government thinks you should be allowed to go.

>>15124099
>Same reason commies hate cars and promote mass transit, which only takes you to places the government thinks you should be allowed to go.
This makes so much sense now! I always wondered why the Democrats promote busses, which pollute like crazy, and drive around all the time with barely any passengers most of the time.

Now it makes sense. They just want the poors to be helpless.

>>15123484
>Hate the way they look.
Glass top is the only way if you go electric. The ones with the exposed coils look so shitty and ghetto, and become absolutely filthy if you don't remove the coils every time you cook and clean under them. HUGE WASTE OF TIME.

>>15123327
do you prefer it because of the extra wait for it to heat up or do you like it because it takes a long time to cool off after its no longer in use?

>>15124706
Good rule of thumb is that if something promotes or facilitates personal independence, commies will oppose it, try to deny that thing to common people (but not themselves of course, they will be privileged members of party and afforded many privileges...) Cars, gun ownership, rural living.

Wouldn't induction allow you to be more independent?
Where are you getting gas from?
I don't know how I'm supposed to collect it myself

>>15124810
brap into jar

>>15124810
>be more independent?
Wood stove.
Cheap,
wood is a renewable crop/resource,
biodegradable products used,
compostable ashes and wood chips provide needed nutrients to gardens,
gives you exercise cutting the wood,
not dependent on anyone but yourself.

No wonder Democrats and WEF is banning/trying to ban all wood stove use.

Get them while you still are able and don't have to cut up a 55 gallon oil drum for a stove.

>>15124831
Yeah I suppose if society collapsed you'd probably be better off with wood stoves than trying to get some situation with solar panels
Have you tried cooking with a wood stove? That's how my grandparents cooked in their village but my generation has lost those skills completely

>>15124840
>Have you tried cooking with a wood stove?
Our family retreat is off grid and has two wood stoves, a large kitchen metal ceramic one, and a smaller pot belly stove for heating. Need to get a newer sealed one as they are more efficient, but mainly because they can take larger logs rather than just kindling.

Use cast iron or enameled steel/iron for cooking on them. Most flimsy modern cookware is too dainty.

>>15124706
>>15124099
>>15124723
Maybe you guys have never lived in a major city, but as someone who has lived in a few, and commuted public transit in each of them, I can tell you personally that buses/rail lines are almost always full at peak hours aka, 7-10am, and 4-7pm. It's a nightmare to get around major cities in a car: Gridlocked traffic is common, parking in the city costs an arm and a leg, since it's basically impossible to park on any city street since they are all reserved for tenents who live on the street.

Not to mention owning a car is expensive and a luxury, whether people realize it or not. I could afford one but don't because public transit is so affordable and available. I actually get a lot of work done while I'm commuting that I couldn't possibly get done if I were driving, since I'd have to be focusing exclusively on driving.

I could just as easily say it's a right wing ideal to promote cars and individual ownership of said cars to make the patrolium and car industry more money, or do you think only the left leaning and liberal parties are the ones in bed with big business?

>>15124851
> WEF socialist/globalist noises.
DISMISSED.

>>15120351
Ever heard of fucking solar panels?

>>15125208
also controlled by municipal ordinances and bylaws

>>15124851
shalom!

>>15118853
Cool I'll just power it from my generator which I run on bio fuel I make myself.

>>15124851
>I could just as easily say it's a right wing ideal to promote cars and individual ownership of said cars to make the patrolium and car industry more money

I guess I'm right wing then if being left wing means being a little slave bug living in a filthy concrete shithole with every aspect of your life controlled

Also, lol at the gas lighting about "the costs" of car ownership, a fucking Honda Accord costs next to nothing and beats any piss smelling bus

>>15124099
>which only takes you to places the government thinks you should be allowed to go.
you mean like roads? fucking retard

>>15124858
>wahh his life experience is wrong! wrong! mine is the only way!!!
die miserable and alone, faggot

>>15125369
>every aspect of your life controlled
are you literally 15 years old?

>>15117368
As someone who cooks regularly, and has used just about every type of burner and method of cooking over heat, open flame is easily the most superior, particularly gas. You have complete control of the temperature, witch is the mark and distinction of a chefs skill: how he manages and controls temperature. For BBQ and roasting, that's maybe a different matter, I prefer live coals over gas, but for stove cooking induction cooking is a nightmare once you've cooked over open flame

>>15117368
induction stoves are more efficient because less of the heat is lost on its way from the burner to the pan. if you live in bumfuck nowhere and your electric grid is powered by coal, sure, it is kind of a wash. but most occupied areas rely on some form of nuclear, hydro, wind or solar as to make it worth it in terms of pollution. not to mention, when you use a gas stove inside, the combustion products are present directly in front of your face. this is mostly a problem for kids who are approximately the same height as the burner, where the combustion products build up the most. ventilation can help but most oven vents just kind of blow it around the room so it's slightly less concentrated. when you are using electricity, there is some ability to more efficiently control and catalyze undesired combustion products into less toxic ones (i.e CO into CO2, NO and NO2 into N2 and O2) at the site of the power generation.

>>15117385
Correlation =/= cause

>>15124840
I've seen a couple of homesteaders on YT who cook on wood stoves. You absolutely have to think ahead of time to get things the right temperature for your home and the food you're cooking. But once you get a routine down, it probably becomes second nature.

>>15125344
>i-i-i-it's literally nothing, i'll just boil my own piss to power a steam engine
What kind of cope is this?

Isn't gas more expensive than electricity for the same amount of heat?

>>15119195
Based Ronnie Jackson.

>>15123484
ReStore is an American company? I used them in London to get furniture and appliances back in 2012 but they've since closed down here.
>>15124710
This.

>>15126316
You won't need skill to cook bugs and onions :)

>>15119270
Retard.

>>15117549
It (mostly) isnt about emissions. Many places have sewage treatment plants which produce biogas, which is then supplied to your gas stove. It's mostly about the fact that gas stoves throw off carbon monoxide and other nasty shit into your living space.

Also pretty sure even if your electricity sources were coal, using electricity is still lower emissions since power plants are far more efficient than your stove.

I can’t believe they are attempting to regulate stoves instead of alcohol. One of them causes more social issues.

>>15117368
>childhood asthma
Woah it's absolutelly nothing

>>15126305
>die miserable and alone, faggot
You sound lonely and wanting company. kek

>>15126309
>literally
Overused word by zoomers who have had their brain and vocabulary conditioned by JewMedia.
They own your mind already goy-bug.

>>15126672
ReStore is where Habitat for Humanity sells items that were donated to them but that they can't use in the houses they're building.

>>15127594
>donated to them but that they can't use in the houses they're building.
Why not?

>>15127776
Probably use a standard BOM and cookie cutter blueprints so the houses are simple to build by mostly amateurs. Items donated that aren't on the BOM would just confuse things if they tried to get them incorporated into a build. Also some donations aren't building materials. The Steelcase Leap chair I'm sitting in right now came from the ReStore. Cost me $5.

>>15127542
>>15127594
>>15127795
you need meds

>>15127795
Those are the "builders"? I'd almost rather trust Chinese buildings that something those women built. kek
Interesting about ReStore. Will check them out.

>>15126927
The rich 1% leftists try to regulate and control everything. Nothing is exempt.

>>15127542
whatever helps you sleep at night and feel special despite being a complete shut-in troglodyte loser
please go outside, it's okay anon

>>15117368
>In induction stoves, energy is transferred from chemical (coal)
I want grugbrains to stop using the Internet. This is painful.

>>15119195
NO (required for NO2) is produced in temperatures above 2000C
Maybe she should have studied in her chemistry class instead of blowing classmates

>>15120266
>chances are it is from natural gas, because about 40% of the electricity in the US is from natural gas
While leftists are stupid for doing this if only 40% of electricity is from natural gas, then chances are it isn't. Presumably if leftists weren't retarded we'd also be phasing out natural gas, relatively, for nuclear as well. Your reasoning also assumes the pipes to get gas to your home are as efficient as pipes serving singular power stations, which isn't necessarily true and often isn't.

>>15126614
Varies wildly.

>>15129399
stupid people are easy to control, it's why the ruling banker class like to push democracy

>>15129601

>>15126675
True. Maybe just some butter and a castiron pan, carmalize the onions, sear the bugs and add a little salt to taste

>>15127802
Habitat for Humanity homes are primarily built by volunteers, with some supervision from organization to make sure everything is being done correctly. People who are given a Habitat for Humanity house are expected to put in a certain amount of "sweat equity" by working on their house when it's under construction. It's common for companies who want to do a team building exercise to have a bunch of their white collar workers go work on a HfH house for a couple of days.

>>15129718
>People who are given a Habitat for Humanity house are expected to put in a certain amount of "sweat equity" by working on their house when it's under construction.
That's good. Gives them a sense of pride and ownership, as well as how to maintain it.

The bad part of home ownership now is the government trying to take it away from you by raising property taxes to unaffordable levels.

A person pays more in property taxes over the life of a home than they pay for the mortgage.

A $200,000 home costs $400,000 once interest from the 30 yr mortgage is collected.
Then property taxes keeps skyrocketing, costing another $400,000 over the 30 yr note.

$200,000 house winds up being $800,000.