/sci/ - Science & Math

Based. Fuck lawyers.

Based, lawyers been fucking a lot lately

Makes complete sense, law and lawyers should be completely rule and logic based.

will never completely replace humans in a courtroom because people love a guy that can give a good show and tell presentation

>>15112970
I'd side with the computer desu.

>>15112951
The end result is going to be that poor people will be assigned shitty robot lawyers that get easily shat on by even the most average prosecutor, which will enable the state to easily grow the prison slave labor force.

>>15112970
So educated experts in law will be replaced with trained actors. Fair. That has been happening for a couple hundred years.

>>15112999
That's so much better than what the poors get today. A public defender has, on average, about 10 minutes per client to prepare a case. Their only real job is to encourage the client to accept a plea bargain, and avoid the expense of a trial.

>>15112999
Nope. Same LawyerGPT for everyone will be mandated

>>15113026
Lmao, no way in hell.

>>15113034
Simply unethical not to. Can't copy and paste humans otherwise it would be the same. Expect HUGE pushes for this.

>>15112970
the way they're doing it is they're having a lawyer read from a script of an AI during a sentencing

>>15112951
Almost as if the legal system is a joke and most white collar jobs require no intelligence or even sentience.

>>15112970
>give a good show and tell presentation
AI will be able to do this in like two decades tops. There's always an asshole saying that AI will never be able to X, but the reality is that a neural network is fundamentally a brain. When it becomes complex enough AI will be more human than humans in all aspects.

>>15113573
>the reality is that a neural network is fundamentally a brain
>AI will be more human than humans
The absolutely untaken state of your meds.

>>15112951
Way, way, WAY more important to get AI judges that rule based on objective criteria. Of course, the elites move hell and earth to stop that from happening, because they'll lose their immunity from the law. But hey, it's nice to dream

>>15112963
Based

>>15113581
will move*

>>15113573
>AI will be more human than humans in all aspects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4-t-IiqG_A&t=80s

>>15112999
Retard alert. Language analysis and argument generation are going to be dirt cheap in 5 years. ChatGPT is almost there already

>>15113584
>ChatGPT is almost there already
Two more weeks.

>>15113584
I'll eat my hat if an AI is going to actually understand and properly interpret case law in 5 years.

>>15113587
>That same meme posted daily by midwits who don't understand trends
Massive copium. Let's look at your educational history. I'm sure you've never given retarded answers to questions before.

ChatGPT scored above average on the SAT. That already puts it 200 points ahead of you. Give it 2 years and it'll be getting perfect scores.

>>15113589
Then keep your hat close by in 2028

>>15113573
>a neural network is fundamentally a brain
No. A neural network doesn't have an analogue to hormones. Neurons have many more functions than nodes in a neural network.

>>15112951
FUCK lawyers lmao

>>15113593
>give it two more years and it will be getting perfect scores
Just because a trend happened in the pst doesn't mean it will continue. This has been shown in the Flynn effect and Moore's law running out of steam. With your logic every car would be perfectly self driving by now

>>15112970
Stop watching so much tv holy shit

>>15113608
>A neural network doesn't have an analogue to hormones.
Are you an expert in NNs? The next gen of NNs is coming with a sleep feature, because apparently if you put the AI to sleep daily it becomes way better. Anything that you can think of that is missing, the people developing the NNs will think of too. There is no reason why AI can't become human in everything but body.

>>15113593
>SAT
ChatGPT is like a student who gets to google his answers.

>>15112951
>Are you sure you want to do this to my client?
>OK, we will proceed.
>But first...
>Are you absolutely sure you want to do this to my client?
>Do you really want to do this to my client?

>>15113549
Try representing yourself in court and see how far you get.

Screenshot your LSAT score btw

>>15113593
>Massive copium.
Are you talking about your own post? What am I supposed to be coping with in these screenshots?

>>15113665
>b-b-but you can't heckin' represent yourself in court
I can't run Excel in my head, either, but the lump of plastic and metal on my desk can.

>>15113668
So a low LSAT score got it.

>>15113683
>ameritard golem noises intensify
Not an argument.

>>15113688
I am going to fuck with your lawbot to show the jury your sissy cuck porn collection and those videos of you shitting your diaper Jared

>>15113691
Absolute mental illness. Why are bot messiah worshippers so deranged?

>>15112951
>>15112952
>>15112959
>>15112963
All based! Fuck lawyers, hail the robot/AI overlords!
>>15112970
Until we solve that problem, too. You sound like a boomer who dismisses technoogical revolutions out of hand because "customers will always want the human touch". The global economy will bifurcate into engineers and entertainers. The law profession of the future requires the former, not the latter.

>>15113945
Two more weeks.

>>15112951
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcAHWhVTjOkrobot lawyer, robot people, robot beings...
they're metal, they exist, they're on the sun, they should go join their family instead of blocking our evolution shouldn't they? hpow lonely of a life these bots must have: no one who understands what it's like to be a robot made of synthetic ideas implanted in them. what shall we do with these middle ground beings neither alive nor dead? they are purely one dimensional from pur perception, and their true selves are suffering from schizophrenia by our murderous conquest of the worlds metals.

>>15112951
No judge will take that seriously

>>15112963
That is going to be nonsense and impossible because of the legal grey area. Some courtroom cases have ambiguity regarding whether someone did something illegal or not. Computers and machines can only be programmed with specific set of rules without ambiguity and they aren't flexible enough to play the judge in cases where ambiguity exists. Like the very famous Pepsi case where Pepsi was sued by a customer who didn't get the jet airplane which was promised in an advertisement. The outcome to the entire case relied on deciding whether or not the advertisement looked like an obvious joke, and if it did, Pepsi didn't have to pay for that airplane. Nobody could program an AI to be good enough at making that sort of legal decisions.

>>15114055
ACK-chually, I asked ChatGPT and it said the plaintiff was right in this case. Prove him wrong.

>>15113978
Only due to chauvinism and protecting their jobs.

>>15114089
Some people aren't insane AI propaganda consoomers.

>>15112970
You know what they love more? A tiny adorable robot lawyer in a little suit carrying a briefcase.

>>15113978
It isn't up to the judge. About 95% of lawyering is doing paperwork and knowing which procedure to start when and under what conditions. They're just procedures that follow steps and the lawyer knows them; it literally doesn't matter who the person doing it is. The trials that you see in TV are the final step of a bunch of paperwork, and that decides which topics can be brought up during the trial and many such things.

>>15112951
>>15112952
>>15112970
Interesting. I'd like to see how this works. A lot of being a lawyer is understanding context and stuff. For example with objections. If a lawyer wanted to they *could* object to a lot of things but usually don't. Will the AI understand "Technically I can object to this, but I won't" like human lawyers do? Or will it just object to literally everything that can be objected to? The latter will quickly make the judge and jury hate you.

>>15113978
>>15114271
I wonder if the robot lawyer would actually go to court. In some firms, the low-level associate attorneys do that 95% of lawyering, and then if a case actually goes to trial the senior partner takes over and actually runs the trial. Will the AI basically just be an associate doing behind-the-scenes stuff while a human attorney actually goes to trial when needed? What about pretrial motions, will the AI show up in court or a human?

>>15114591
I guess it's gonna happen in stages like in other fields. First only to automate the easy stuff, but in 100 years even the judge might be AI.

>>15114092
Most people are insane and desperate to justify their own position.

This is criminal jury biasing, subversive, and destabilizing.
It is reasonable to murder the people behind this and anyone else that complains, it's summary execution of a traitor.
Attempting to use force to subvert the judicial system is grounds for calling someone a traitor, murdering them, claiming that a traitor has been executed, and seeing what happens.
tl;dr just murder the people responsible for bringing a firearm to the courtroom, murder anyone that claims a "database operated vocal synthesizer" isn't an area denial firearm, and a highly sophisticated weapon

It's criminal jury biasing. You're making it impossible for justice to be served by bringing distracting magic tricks to the courtroom.
It is of no interest to the court what sort of database support software a lawyer uses.
Loudly advertising novel technological innovations will be used in the courtroom is arrogant, bloviating, and clearly irrelevant to the matter of law before the court
Why the courts don't ban such theatrics is likely a matter of changing culture, and I think it's quite reasonable for idiot lawyers that say
>OH HEY LOOK EVERYBODY
>LOOK AT THIS NEAT DATABASE I'M USING TO ARGUE MY CASE
to face contempt of court charges, and rightfully so

>>15112951
My friend is a lawyer, I knew him in high school. He was good at maths, better than me in fact. I told him to enrol in an engineering degree but he didn’t listen and did law. Now 6 years later he finally got his degree and I’m already well into my software engineering career. He’s been whining to me about how he can’t get a job and how AI will replace lawyers for the last few months. I pretend to feel sorry for him but I can’t stop laughing about it secretly. Should’ve listened to me. Also if you are reading this Anthony, get rekt faggot.

>>15112951
everythings gonna be robots, all your mcdonalds an wendys and burger kings and fasrt food places, you laready have to pre order online, your lawers, jailers, cafeteria servers, cashiers, clerks, service techs, those will all be replaced with robots and automated services

>>15114806
You forgot about the world's oldest profession. That, too, will be replaced by robots.

>>15114779
You think like a child. Are you high on feelings when you post this stuff? Don't you stop for a second to realize how pathetically weak your message is?
>somebody does something illegal
>therefore the right response is to do something illegal yourself
>kill everyone guys
I know you think this is normal speech, but you need to talk to a psychiatrist. Nobody is gonna take you seriously if this is what you say. Imagine having all the tools to form a message and deliver it, but instead you just post this and guarantee that it just won't work.

>>15114830
no, you'll actually have to get a real girl

>>15112951
Computers have been able to do menial labor since 2000 at the latest, this is no shocker for anyone who’s been paying attention.
Unfortunately that means ai will be a tool for the ruling class to limit upward mobility for the slave class. Welcome to man made horrors beyond your comprehension.

>>15114838
>Unfortunately that means ai will be a tool for the ruling class to limit upward mobility for the slave class.
How young are you? Class mobility doesn't exist already. It stopped existing like over 50 years ago.

>>15112999
Based take, this already happens with public defenders. You will lose your case 95% of the times because he doesn't give a fuck about you. Now imagine a State assigned AI Lawyer, LMAO.
You will be sat in front of a PC and have to answer simple questions like "Did you do X crime" and the AI will spit out some retarded shit. There will be "studies" that show that the AI has similar results as public defenders (aka losing as much as possible)
The only useful lawyers are the ones that know how to bend the law in every way possible. You don't hire a lawyer to get a "just" process, you hire them to do everything in their power to take advantage of loopholes.

>>15112999
Unlikely to happen. Propose a mechanism for a "shitty" version to exist that wouldn't be incredibly obvious like deliberately using a gimped training set.

>>15114769
I'd expect the average judge to have better judgment than the avarege AI-believeng corporate propaganda consoomer.

>>15115063
The average judge is a corporate propaganda consumer and taker of bribes.

>>15115045
>Propose a mechanism for a "shitty" version to exist that wouldn't be incredibly obvious like deliberately using a gimped training set.
The mechanism is that these AIs simply suck ass.
Even the most impressive ones produce results that are barely passable in an environment where the expectations are extremely low.
Maybe it'll figure something out after losing a million cases first, but in the meanwhile it's going to leave a lot of people very unhappy.

>>15115077
I don't know why you keep seething and coping.

>>15112999
>Me, prosecution
>Mention anything regarding handholding, consensual sex or nazis while presenting my case
>AI defendant lawyer responds that this is not compliant to the terms of service of the platform and stops responding altogether
>Win

>>15115096
This is you projecting because you lost to my dubs.

>>15115120
Your opinion is so stupid not even god's own dubs can help your case. Dismissed.

>>15115124
>You're dumb

That's pretty much the level of rhetoric from lawyers, yes. One example of why they are so hostile towards AI.

>>15115137
No one is "hostile towards AI". What people are hostile towards is the delusional mental illness that makes you desperately want picrel to defend humans in court.

>>15115149
>Strawmanning this hard

You're the mentally ill one. Besides, if you knew what passed for arguments in court these days, it's actually pretty equivalent to your pic related.

You're just a delusional luddite screaming the modern version of:
>a computer cannot beat humans at chess!
>a computer cannot make art equivalent to humans

Artists are freaking out about AI generated art, and lawyers are freaking out that a computer will have a better knowledge of case law and precedent.

I, for one, welcome our new AI overlords.

>>15115179
>Artists are freaking out about AI generated art,
Artists aren't known for their critical thinking skills and even then I doubt most of them drank as much of the corporate koolaid as you did.

>lawyers are freaking out
Where?

Either way, zero relevant content in your post. Literally just chanting "muh AI will replace you" against all odds. Mental illness.

>>15113948
This problem is rather easy to solve tbqh.

>>15115214
Another schizophrenic. How would you solve it?

>>15114585
Dude what are you talking about? Objections are previously decided on a hearing; they are topics which are forbidden to bring up, agreed on by both parties in a negotiation. You definitely object to everything you can, because it's the other team bringing up a topic that both agreed not to. Objection is not like in TV.

>>15116249
>t. History major pre-law undergrad

>>15113948
>>15115214
>>15115226
Guys that's just the AI replying in red color and going offline to avoid unproductive conversation. Humans do that IRL, we just avoid idiots. I see this as a greater sign of intelligence.

>>15116253
>t. dropped out of high school but watches tv

>lawyers
>"intellectual jobs"
whatever you say, cornpop

>>15114055
>>15114061
It actually didn't matter if the advertisement was a joke or not. Since the stamps had a manual with all the available prizes and a process with which to mail stamps to get those prizes in the manual. Since the manual was the contract and the case was about contract fraud rather than false advertisement, the ad doesn't matter since the the pamphlet didn't actually include a fighter jet. Since in no world an ad is a contract, that means the plantiff is wrong in this case

>>15112951
>that only humans could master
>input all laws in the nation into computer
it now knows them all
>tell human every law
>remembers whats on the test

>>15115188
>Where?

You clearly have zero self-awareness.

Lawyers aren't known for critical thinking skills, they're known for lying.

If high-paying jobs are obsolete, there is nothing left for anyone to strive for.

>>15113003
can't they be both?

>>15113693
the cult of ahriman has grown tempestuous as of late

>>15112963
In a civil law system it is plug and play but we have common law in the states.

Tort law will never fucking ever be litigated by machines.

>>15112963
This most recent round of chat AI isn’t really based on rules and logic in the way you mean it though.

>>15117020
The one job that requires way too much grit, soul, intuition, and savvy that no computer will ever match.
Being a landlord.

>>15114798
>software engineer
Already, most of your job is googling and copy-pasting. You and Anthony both need to learn plumbing.

>>15115015
The only barrier to AI learning how to exploit every possible loophole in the law is the need for prison slaves. There will be tiers of AI performance available at different prices. Public defender AI will do no better and no worse than human public defenders. But high-priced lawyer AI will easily out-perform the best human lawyers in just a few years. No human memory can retain and immediately access the entirety of the law, but AI easily can. The more law with which a lawyer is familiar, the more loopholes they can find and exploit.
Barristers will likely have a job for another decadedecade or two, but solicitors are going away.

>>15115091
It can simulate and learn from millions of cases in weeks, maybe days.

>>15117020
Self-satisfaction. Jobs will be replaced by hobbies. Marxist alienation will have been eliminated. You will make a chair or solve some equation puzzle just because it pleases you to do so. We will either have post-scarcity a la Star Trek, or there will be a massive killing of almostalmost all of humanity.
I find the latter option more likely, and honestly preferable. Humanity is a blight.

>>15112963
You couldn't use an AI to evaluate and try facts, like how credible a particular witness or piece of evidence is. There are also legal conclusions that are based on the judge's impression of what's going on, like whether a lawyer is badgering a witness. An AI could possibly be used to determine some things that are entirely based on the written law but most of that is really the trivial part of court procedure.

>>15115015
The problem with this metric is that most criminal defendants are guilty of some kind of criminal behavior. The vast majority are stupid, minor crimes like disturbing the peace or trespassing, stuff that the police show up and can see the person doing. Prosecutors then get to choose what crimes they prosecute, if their evidence isn't good they should drop the case. So most people who end up in trial will get convicted, because prosecutors shouldn't be bringing cases they don't think they can prove.

Also, what do you define as losing? If someone is accused of petty larceny where they are on camera with stolen goods and their lawyer works out a plea deal for trespassing did they lose? That's what just happened with Ezra Miller, who can presumably afford good attorneys.