/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15070172
Theyre usually good at high school math but then fail to understand higher math at university. This is common in engineers/physicists too. It’s basically just midwitism.

>>15070181
"higher math" more like "fantasy math" that is irrelevant for real life

>>15070184
>t. cs major

>>15070181
i code my own math faggot

>>15070194
I generate my own code figboy

>>15070197
trained on pajeet code

>>15070172
actual computer scientists(not programmers) are essentially just doing math

>>15070172
Kek

Is it falsifiable ever?
>No
Any applications ever?
>No
Woow such a good use of time and effort how could I possibly ever fathom the greatness.

>>15070172
>mathwiz just sits thinking with a paper all day, produces theories only other mathwits understand, basically useless
>the chad computer scientist programmer produces a vast archive of work that all enjoy: games, critical software, etc.

>>15070222
the techfag's entire body of work has done nothing but create degeneracy and promote the destruction of the human race for no other benefit other to make money that they will never be able to spend

>tfw did UX design

>>15070184
Now replace "math" with "CS."

Slow down. Math splinters in college. Linear algebra (matrices), real analysis (compact sets etc), complex analysis (integral magic), topology, set theory, group theory, and there's real crossover with NP-Complete classes. But yeah, some if it is truly useless, although one day physics might find a way to use it.

If you want to read math and write papers, you can but it doesn't pay well, there are no women, the men aren't really gay just asexual.

If you want cash you have to solve world problems: that's matrices, designing learning networks, fourier transforms, and a lot of domain knowledge that isn't math or CS, just medical, financial, services (robot cars/trucks), or engineering.

Pure math: only if you love it.
Applied math: only if you are a whore for money.

t. Applied Math and CS

>>15070172
>Computer scientist actually calculates the math stupid academias wrote
really makers you thonk

>>15070172
Software engineering and computer science should be different degrees. They are at some unis but probably half of the web developers I've met have a computer science degree and the other half have something unrelated or no degree. I don't know why they do the degree if they know they're not going to be programming some embedded code in GPUs or something that might require it. Maybe most programmers are bad at math because they know they don't really need anything more than basic arithmetic and algebra

>>15070230
There's no way one anon can be this based

>>15070230
Ummmmmmm sweaty, you're wrong. Imagine the abject, unthinkable suffering our forefathers must have experienced having to hunt their food and shit in the woods. They didn't even have Twitter. Hell, they didn't even have access to the 5 different brands of antidepressants I take to function at my dead end job at the local cube farm. I'm amazed they didn't all kill themselves from depression.

>>15070739
Fun fact: if you ask a regular person why life in the past was worse, if you interject JUST at the right moment before as they start to speak with "Besides medicine." you can actually cause a stack overflow and they reach undefined behaviour. They may usually settle for a fallback "Gay?" answer routine.

>>15070172
They go to university because they want to be code monkeys rather than someone that can think a problem through by themselves.

>>15070222
>games
What percent of new CS grads do you think could write something like quakeworld?
We just have thousands of kids who know how to use unity
>critical software
How often do you hear about new massive data breach on the news?
Now compare that to bridge collapses or chemical/power plant meltdowns (in the western world)

>>15070184
Yeah I feel a lot of math is over abstraction, it's cool and someone should investigate it because it might lead to something but not neccesary at all for engineers or even physicists.

math is not used often in most code monkey jobs
t. having to relearn basic undergrad math to try and transition to ML

>>15070172
Computer Science is similar to math but it's not actually math.

CS is like a toy that is themed on math, everything in CS uses functions and you have to understand some mathematical concepts.

CS is related to math but it's a far easier version of math. Some examples: Cryptography uses algorithms to encrypt data, these algorithms are usually math related: for example, large semiprimes are very difficult to factor, so one way that a computer can encrypt data is to use semiprimes and then hackers won't know what the factors are, but the recipient will have the "key" which is based on a factor, etc.

Everything in Computer Science is inspired by math, but it's not hard math usually, and Computer Scientists don't need to research math or understand it, they just need to APPLY the math that you mathematicians create for us. So thanks for all your work in the field of mathematics, CS people just use it for their jobs but they don't need to understand it to apply it.

>>15071651
It is ironic that they will be replaced by the same system they have worked so hard to create.

Real mathematicians can sometimes hack computer science systems because they know loopholes that the code monkeys don't realize.

Like how semiprime cryptography requires large semiprimes to be factored before you can read a digital message, and the idea is that you can't decrypt it without the factor being provided to you, but because it doesn't always work as ideal, sometimes hackers find exceptional scenarios and they understand the math good enough that they can break the message by factoring the number (because if the number wasn't generated in a truly random fashion there is a loophole).

>>15073162
>Real mathematicians can sometimes hack computer science systems

>>15070172
When you have a very lucrative field, you're inevitably going to attract a lot of Normans.

>>15070230
>he said using a computer to type in his schizo ramblings

>>15073535
Standardized nonsentient drone argument pattern.

>>15073538
>only response given is a spew of a random assortment of buzzwords
Typical Cazinski simp.

>>15070172
I don't know what country's computer scientists you are talking about there, but that doesn't happen in Germany.
The first year of CS generally filters more than half the students using maths classes.
May have gotten even worse with the recent decline in high school maths standards (for social justice purposes) and in general more unfit people being forced into CS (for "equality"), but I haven't tutored those courses in a while, so I wouldn't know first hand.

If there is no such filtering in the anglosphere, then that's probably why.

>>15073561
Your thought-terminating cliche warrants nothing more than pointing out that it's spouted only by nonsentients.

>>15073594
Whatever nerd.

>>15070172
Because they're pursing a water-down software development rather than an applied math / computer science one.

>t. CSfag who's done Analysis and Graduate Math

>>15073538
>>15073594
whats wrong with ">t. npc"

>>15073152
I don't think this is acurate. The fact that factoring semiprimes is hard to compute is not math but theoretical computer science. So yeah cs is about computing stuff and naturally it will be math themed since what you want to compute can be mathematical. It offshooted from math almost 100 years ago (actually less but whatever). In the early 1900s cs was the direction math was heading in (see Hilberts problems and Gödel)
>>15073162
That's not true. The weakest link in security is the human factor. It is much easier to trick someone into giving you his password than to break a cryptosystem. Cyber security is probably the lowest thing and literally requires no math and no cs. It is the same as paying someone to break into your house. There are a million ways to do it and any fucking immigrant will find a way without needing any special knowledge. Literally the same with computers where knowing common vulnerabilities in code is the equivalent of knowing that throwing a rock on the window will help you break in or how to slide a card to open the door.
Cryptography on the other hand is a different subject that nowdays requires both math and cs knowledge to do research.

>>15070172
>>15070181
>>15070184
>>15070188
>>15070194
>>15070197
>>15070199
>>15070200
>>15070201
>>15070214
>>15070222
>>15070230
>>15070233
>>15070269
>>15070286
>>15070307
>>15070342
>>15070733
>>15070739
>>15071603
>>15071651
>>15072668
>>15072941
>>15073144
>>15073152
>>15073154
>>15073162
>>15073164
>>15073199
>>15073535
>>15073538
>>15073561
>>15073592
>>15073594
>>15073605
>>15073627
>>15073650
>>15074950
tl;dr
You 4chan nerds always pretend your smarter than you think you are

>>15075072
no u

>>15073162
>truly random
There is no "true randomness" in this world, leave alone in a computer.
There is just randomness that is indistinguishable from "true randomness".

Computer science has

> x = x + 1

but in math, there is no x for which x is equal to x + 1

Computer sciences considers convenient a lot of similarly bad ideas which makes computer science harder to generalize compared to math.

So computer programmers just argue about trivial issues like the color of the bike shed outside a nuclear reactor. Because they are unable to see far reaching implications of their design decisions.

It is like trying to build skyscrapers without modern methods to solve differential equations. Sure it can be done, but there will be a height limit like that of cathedrals.

>>15070286
In 2016 when I was working on my mathematics degree EVERYONE who I knew told me to switch to engineering because math is useless. I didn’t switch but I remember a time when people would say that math is a shit major.

>>15070181
You just described me, fuck you. Also, not fail to understand but struggle*. Mainly due to loss of interest in maths, but I guess losing interest in something due to it being not as easy as it previously was is a sign of midwitism.

>>15077267
> x = x + 1
>but in math, there is no x for which x is equal to x + 1
That’s an assignment expression, not an equivalence expression. x = x + 1 isn’t saying that x is equal to x + 1, it’s updating the value stored in the x variable to the original value incremented by one.

The expression (x == x + 1) will return false because there is no scenario where x will equal a value that is one greater than x.

>>15070197
can you ask it too
"code a function that provides the exact output to the subtraction of two decimal numbers?

>>15070181
I barely graduated high school math, mostly because it was taught terribly at my school, which had a 80% attrition rate by senior year. I also skipped to smoke weed all the time.

Was able to avoid math except for statistics in undergrad. Was able to learn enough calculus and more advanced stats on the go for grad school economics and quantum core classes.

After rising to senior management (finance) I joined a tech start up (finance focused) and taught myself to code to be more than just a content knowledge expert and consultant to clients. I've since hired a few people with math backgrounds on the assumption that they would be way better than me because they are so far beyond what I know how to do. This has resulted in one good hire and many bad ones. It's apparently quite possible to grind your way through mathematics classes and not have any idea how to apply that knowledge in complex situations.

I might be a mid-wit, but my lack of high level math is the reason. Application requires its own levels of abstraction.

>>15071603
Forensic anthropology and studies of surviving hunter gatherers show homicide rates in human communities that absolutely dwarf Europe's from 1914-1945, our even 1939-1945. 1:5 adult males dying in combat seems pretty bleak. Cannibalism, high levels of rape tied to intergroup conflict, and forms of slavery/thralldom appear fairly endemic. Evidence of human sacrifice seems fairly common if you go back far enough.

Band level society seems pretty vicious.

>>15078076
>It's apparently quite possible to grind your way through mathematics classes and not have any idea how to apply that knowledge in complex situations.
I'd argue that's impossible around here, since the homework ("exercises") are a hard requirement for exam admission and you are doing rather involved proofs in those, that test your ability to do precisely that.
Also, failing any required exam three times renders you unable to ever get that degree at any European university for the rest of your life.
"Grinding" is not an option there. Which is probably, why that may not be a thing anymore in ''social justice''-focused countries like the US.

>>15078076
well if you are hiring intelligent people to commit crimes against humanity (i.e finance) and they all effectively try to sabotage the company, seems pretty based to me
finance bros are always convinced of the almighty holiness of the dollar without question, it's kind of sad

>>15078386
>well if you are hiring intelligent people to commit crimes against humanity (i.e finance)

It is possible to cause more trouble with a rouble than with a club; it is only political economy that does not want to know it -Tolstoy

based knower that you can collect 100x tribute at 1/100% the alienation rate with 6 letter acroynm financial products than demanding treasure chests from the king

>>15078499

>>15078386
>All finance is Wall Street and banking.
Every government entity, from towns to counties to big cities and states, and every decently large business and non-profit has a finance division. CEOs tend to come from either HR or finance backgrounds, but more often finance. Fiance is about pairing means with ends. You need a strong finance team for capital planning to build schools or keep sea walls repaired, to hire responsibly, to figure out how much to pay people, to negotiate with unions.

>>15070230
Suck it up, schizo. Industrial society makes us stronger.

>>15078500
>>15078499
>book printed in fucking arial

???????

>>15070184
You don't even know what calculus is.

>>15078500
delete this antisemitism!!!

>>15079577
industrial society just made us all lonelier

>>15078499
Michael Hudson was an IMF and World Bank fag

>>15079500
yea to commit crimes against humanity

>>15077267
>there is no x for which x is equal to x + 1
x := x +1
done, or more accurately
x_2 := x_1 + 1 where x_1 is the old value and x_2 is the new value

tedfags are obnoxious and only like ted because of memes. he really perverted his influences like ellul and heidegger. feenberg is the better author.

>>15077308
Math is the major most people think has no job openings but is the one with the most. I think people just think you can only become a teacher when in reality every industry known to man is employable to math grads

>>15070181
Uh my experience is they suck at all math. Being actually good at high school math concepts is the same skill.

lots of computer scientists work on fundamental purely mathematical and logical topics. theoretical computer science is generally divided into two "tracks"
track B: lambda calculus, automata theory (very algebraic these days), type theory, denotational semantics, finite model theory (and descriptive complexity), certain areas of quantum information (like categorical quantum mechanics)
track A: "classical" computational complexity theory, computational game theory, cryptography theory, other areas of quantum information (like quantum hamiltonian complexity, for instance)
track B, sometimes referred to as "eurotheory" due to it being generally more popular in europe and the UK, is more logical and algebraic. on the other hand, track A is more combinatorial in nature. theoretical computer science is science (specifically, mathematics). software engineering is the application of this stuff. one could say software engineering to computer science is what engineering is to mathematical physics.
also, computation in general is becoming a rather effective and profound language for not just natural science but also linguistics, musicology, and many other disciplines. while mathematics is itself a powerful language for natural sciences already, it is mostly effective for modelling static (platonic, if you will) structures. computation, on the other hand, provides the perfect language for *processes*. the objects of study in theoretical computer science are intensional in nature, whereas ordinary pure mathematics is fundamentally extensional.
also, developments in theoretical computer science have recently been very influential towards the foundations of mathematics, which actually makes sense considering our understanding of computation is rooted in the foundations of mathematical logic

>>15070181
>physicists
wtf?

>>15070230
>it's the techfag's fault for the degeneracy and not the mathsfag/physicists
cope.

mathfags commit larger crimes against humanity (quants).

>>15081655
The informed take I was looking for and wanted to post in this thread. Not sure how anyone can argue that TCS isn't walking a blurred line into purely mathematical territory.

>>15082299
They usually struggle with anything past diif. eq and linear algebra. They might have a rudimentary understanding or topology or non-eucleaudian geometry if they really like math

>>15072668
>compare that to bridge collapses or chemical/power plant meltdowns
people who pay for sw simply don't care about their shit working at all, let alone correctly or reliably
just the fact that SAP is a thing demonstrates that they don't give a flying fuck about sw quality

>>15070172
Compiters do a lot of math, but not very advanced math. You may need quaternions depending on what you do, but most math that computers do is simple.

>>15070739
Consider that hunting used to be a privilege reserved for the nobility.

>>15070199
is there any other code?

>>15078084
>Forensic anthropology and studies of surviving hunter gatherers show homicide rates in human communities that absolutely dwarf Europe's from 1914-1945
They had a blast killing each other. Meanwhile you churn buckets meds just to get through another day of your safe and effective life. :^)

>>15083503
Ummm listen sweaty, nobels are fucking degenerate. No wonder you filthy regressives appeal to nobels. The future is a worker's dictatorship.

>>15078084
we are not as nice as we claim to be?

>>15080359
we were lonely from the get go

>>15083518
>safe and effective life
too frightened to ask - why continue?

>>15083536
You may miss out on something if you rope.

>>15070197
This is scary.

>>15083651
What's scary is how many actual retards think it shows the chatbot can program.

>>15070286
>Applied math: only if you are a whore for money.
What do you mean? How do I capitalize on an applied math degree? Who gives a fuck about PDE's besides other applied math researchers?

>>15083655
It can generate working code from templates, which is a step up from most CS students.

>>15083660
>It can generate working code
So can a program that pulls code from github based on tags. Nigger.

Computer Science is far more interested in order of magnitude than in perfect equality. This leads to parts of calculation that don't impact the order of magnitude being left out. Mathematicians lose their minds when they see computer scientists do this but for their purposes, it makes sense to leave those seemingly irrelevant parts out.

>>15083687
No, it can't. Pulling code from github is different to generating code.

>>15083733
You're mentally ill.

>>15080585
guy is a natural born autist though, Got literally chased out of a convention in Mexico after stating the debt was never designed to be paid back. He and graber are on the money towards the rapacious character of finance

>>15079602
not today synagogue of satan, we all know how rome ended up

>>15078054
>"code a function that provides the exact output to the subtraction of two decimal numbers?
Yes, there are several ways to perform exact decimal arithmetic in Node.js. One option is to use the decimal.js library, which provides a set of functions for performing high-precision decimal arithmetic.

To use decimal.js, you will first need to install it using npm:

Copy code
npm install decimal.js
Then, you can use the Decimal constructor to create a new Decimal object, which you can use to perform arithmetic operations:

Copy code
const Decimal = require('decimal.js');

const a = new Decimal('0.1');
const b = new Decimal('0.2');
const c = a.plus(b); // 0.3
decimal.js also provides a number of other functions for performing various arithmetic operations, such as minus(), times(), and dividedBy(). You can find more information about the available functions in the decimal.js documentation.

>>15083866
import Decimal from 'decimal.js'
const a = new Decimal(2**256 - 1 + 0.3)
const b = new Decimal(2**256 - 1 + 0.4)

console.log(b.minus(a))
// 0

nice try chatGPT

>>15083887
ah wait, that could be my error, one sec, i need to string those bns

>>15083895
yup this is me losing to chatgpt lol

import Decimal from 'decimal.js'
const a = new Decimal('115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639935.3')
const b = new Decimal('115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639935.4')
console.log(b.minus(a))
// 0.1

>>15083866
https://github.com/MikeMcl/decimal.js/blob/7f01abd83d5632005d5f97ddbea41e069ee69a74/decimal.js#L1264-L1411

pretty crazy what actually goes into exact decimal arithmetic.

to Teds point you show up with just 1.2 - 1.1 = 0.1 in gradeschool, but you need 200 lines of code to implement it on a computer

>>15083971
>you need 200 lines of code to implement it on a computer
...if you want to do it for floating point numbers, which are an extremely bad idea for precise calculations in general.
If anyone is doing anything remotely serious with your code, avoid floats, doubles and the likes as good as you can.

>>15083887
God I hate Java

>>15084574
That's not >Java, that's >floats in general.
Precision gets really awful once you get significantly far away from 1 and even there it's not exactly great.
I mean, how many unique number representations do you expect them to fit into 64 bit?

>>15070172
Because they don't really need math.
Unless they are theoretical computer science, they aren't really doing any exotic computations.
Most comp-sci majors will end up just mindlessly sorting, filtering, formatting, and moving data.
Maybe the more advanced ones will have to take averages and do basic statistics/regression or do basic linear algebra for 3d graphics.

>>15070222
The math people are the ones that invent the better algorithms. I doubt most CS undergrads could have came up with FFT.