/sci/ - Science & Math

Probably at some point.

Gonna take a while though.

>>15059986
2 weeks?

>>15059979
this why ricci flow is so important?

>>15059979
No, because working fusion will never be allowed. Climate change is a powerful political tool that the global elites are using to push through horrific social changes, they will not surrender this tool.

>>15059979

Yes. It will be bigger than agriculture, the invention of the bow, and the green revolution all put together.

>>15059991
15 years for the first commercial fusion reactors. 30 years for widespread useage

>>15060119
>the invention of the bow
Its pretty big innovation, not going to disagree, but a bow can be made from ones own hands and can enable one to be fully independent in nature along side a stone hatchet. Something tells me the fabric of humanity is going to be so worn out by 2035-2060 that one isnt gaining access to the energy supplied by these things unless they take the mRNA cat girl serum and work in the semen mines

Just imagine all the water we're gonna be able to boil...

>>15059979
Damn, the r&d at shake weight is impressive.

>>15059979
so far it's only a golden age for construction companies and engineers wasting taxpayer money

>>15059979
you can start your personal golden age now if you put solar panels on your roof

>>15060406
it does not boil water
that's the interesting bit
it's more like a electromagnetic opposed piston engine than a boiler

>>15060456
Speaking of water fusion energy will ripple into other advancements like desalination plants making them actually useful and life changing.

Fusion research should get massive subsidization from the government, instead of being retarded by spending billions to go to the moon… again

>>15059979
>Will fusion push humanity to the golden ages?

After the ability to create and control fire, the ability to create and control fusion is the second most important discovery of any technological civilization.

>>15060638
The Artemis program would spend about 93 billion dollars alone between 2015-2025, and for what? Regolith?

>BUT BUT IT CREATES JOBS
more jobs will be created through energy programs, you know, because it’s on planet Earth, where everyone lives… and what we should focus on instead of bullshit

>>15059979
>Will fusion push humanity to the golden ages?
Nothing can do that

>>15060207
I heard this one before!

>>15060638
Not to mention it would make longer-term habitation of the moon more viable to begin with.

>>15060207
No... not this again!

>>15060115
so why are the elites investing billions in fusion?

>>15060638
one of the best suited applications for fusion is space travel since converting mass efficiently into kinetic energy is very important to the field, you could potentially cut down travel times to mars from a couple months to potentially just a few weeks, maybe even days if you are rich enough

>>15060638
>>15060675
the moon has a lot more helium 3 then earth and this process uses helium 3. it also creates helium 3 both directly and by creating tritium that eventually decays into it but mining it from the moon could potentially speed up the adoption times for fusion.the infrastructure built for moon mining then makes for a good base to expand to other bodies in the solar system such as the gas giants which contain even more helium 3 that could cover our power needs for porbably millions of years

>>15060676
wrong, time does

>>15060763
Just fuse deuterium into He3.

Bam, literally unlimited fuel.

>>15060781
im talking about a period from when fusion first becomes commercially viable but there arent enough reactors to make enough fuel fast enough to build more reactors. in that case mining it from the moon speeds up the adoption of fusion energy to the grid until making the fuel with reactors becomes more viable, tritium has a half life of about 12 years so it will take at least 12 years for a lot of the helium 3 production to really take off

>>15060781
Deuterium-deuterium fusion does not generate enough energy. Thats why D-H3 is the way (also because its self-sustaining (in the long long run)).

27Al + 27Al = 54Fe + 21.8 MeV

I'm very sab about ITER.

I don't like AT ALL the Beryllium problem + cost problem. They will meet a dead end. They only reason why i think they still going with the design is for scientific purposes. ITER will never be Output positive

>>15060809
Why would you want to fuse Aluminium ? And be left with fucking iron, a dead end

>>15060820
>Why would you want to fuse Aluminium ?
It's cheap and safe and is literally everywhere

>And be left with fucking iron, a dead end
Yup, can't get better than that, squeeze it all to every last drop baby

>>15060763
Moon helium will always be more expensive to mine than it is to make it right here on the Earth. It's a red herring spacetards came up with to justify why their childhood fantasies about Moon bases and space travel should be paid for by the taxpayer.

>>15060842
space travel should be paid for by the tax payer regardless but financial incentive doesnt hurt, once you actually get established on the moon its not that hard to get stuff back to earth compared to getting stuff to the moon

I doubt. There are people who still operate wars to fullfill their ego

test

>>15060456
That's only the Helion device afaik. Most other designs like tokamaks use steam turbines.

>>15060849
I think I disagree, the administrative process and costs, and problems on Earth already are enough to not create a space economy. It would probably be a better strategy to use that 93 billion dollars from Artemis to instead produce helium-3 from a lab

>>15060856
Fusion powered holodeck RTS games for them

>>15060842
And we're gonna keep doing it for as long as we possibly can. By the time congress figures out they've been duped, there's gonna be small cities at the base of Shackleton full of people who don't wanna go home.

>>15059979
The video doesn't really get into how much energy we will get back from this process, obviously this is still small scale but I'd be interested to know how close they are, or if they are still miles away and this might end up being another dead end

>>15060909
well they havent actually used this to generate power yet thats what the next version is going to be doing, proving they can generate electricity directly from reaction

>>15060898
93 billion is small fry when talking about making fuel to power large parts of the economy, the current energy market is in the trillions of dollars so a couple billion here and there is not going to change much. its hard to determine what is more capital intensive, building at least several hundred fusion reactors purely to make helium 3 or mining it from the moon with automated bases

>>15059979
It will push trillionaires to the golden age. Some will live in space stations, some will own continents and small moons, some will own starships.
But some of us plebs will need to be the grunts growing food, and serving it to them in restaurants, so we might end up going too.

>>15059979
>fusion power is just a cutaway fleshlight
I thought they said this was complicated?

>>15059979
Nuclear fusion isn't going to stop dysgenics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYWIyga245g

>>15061005
however
>dysgenics is definitely not going to stop fusion.

inb4 Putler's nukes

>>15061005
wouldn't that be from the increasing population size than people actually getting dumber ? Just that if people were getting dumber we'd probably start to have very little progress in technological areas

>>15061063
>>15061005
don't trust this retarded ahh graph that doesn't even say what it measures. If it was true then now the average(I am assuming thats what this graph is about) iQ is 85. That means that the average human is mentally impaired which is obviously not true.

>>15060749
Spin off technology.

Fusion is otherwise a resource sink and distraction. So we don't use fission and actually solve problems.

>>15059979
Plasmoids.

>>15060777
>cracker takes shrooms and reads the Baghvad Gita once
>OMG I SEE THE DIVINE FABRIC OF DA UNIVERSE

>>15060749
they're barely investing anything
just crumbs

>>15059979
>golden ages
no such thing
>fusion
Yes. Helion in particular. Direct energy conversion I like that

>>15060207
It's probably more like 20 years for a net gain prototype and another 20 for an optimized commercial design.

I don't think you can really do it in one go and I wouldn't be surprised if it took more than just two iterations.

>>15061063
>wouldn't that be from the increasing population size than people actually getting dumber ?
It's both

https://unz.com/akarlin/smart-fractions-and-technology-in-2100/

>>15060900
lol

>>15060812
iter was never supposed to be, it is not built to do so. it is a fusion demonstrator with no way to generate power. that one which will generate power would be iters successor in 25-40 more years after iter has collected enough data to see if and how this dumpster fire could be improved. i guess small fusion by commercial providers will have taken off by then. i kinda feel sad for iter, so much wasted effort. well, they can still rent it out as movie set.

>>15061293
I expect a Net-gain reactor in 3 year as the math behind SPARC is the same as the modern fusion breakthroughs yet SPARC will produce more energy as system entirely rather than a energy surplus within a system. I do concour that optimized commercial fusion reactors will only fo online in the 40s but commercial fusion reactors might get online in the 30s.

>>15061782
lol, sure

>>15060656
we kardashev nao

>>15060638
NASA receives a fraction of US's budget, so this isn't the issue. Going back to the Moon with intent to establish permanent presence is wonderful, but this is being used as a jobs program with the Artemis and its shitty SLS.

>>15060898
>problems on Earth already are enough to not create a space economy
Oh, so we should all just stay here forever?

>>15059979
Hi-tech fleshlight.

>>15061076
>That means that the average human is mentally impaired which is obviously not true.

Anon, you might not have met enough people for you to still believe this.

>>15060749
laundering

>pump a gorillion dollars into cutting edge fusion energy research
>the output method is still a fucking wheel being pushed by steam

>>15060207
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

>>15061089
i'm of the same perspective, one can try to force a plasma like stellarator or tokamak and get btfo with wear and tear because math cant into high order navier stokes, or they can let it fall into the desired configuration all by itself, much more elegant

>>15062542
That's not the case for Helios.

>>15059979

>>15061005
If anything it will acellerate it.
Anyway humans as a species are dysgenic.

>>15061076
Maybe not where you live in the US or Western Europe but if you take the entirety of Asia, Africa, and South America into account I'm sure the average value drops pretty quickly.

>>15059979
>Will fusion push humanity to the golden ages?
Nah other resource shortages will take us down

>>15059979
depends if we can do it with less power used

the gain in power is only from the lasers and the lasers use moar power then they output

>>15060418
better than "Operation: Northwoods"ing towers to get some moar oil for the machines to burn

>>15060430
i think you should put solar panels on your roof but nuclear power is moar reliable

>>15061005
Isn't the world IQ 100 by definition?

>>15064125
no, if a majority of people grow their intelligences above what was expected as mean when they created that absurd ratio

>>15060207
>30 years
there it is!

apart from powering cities, fusion power will make available technologies that are currently not feasible. things that come to mind are water desalination and artificial carbon sequestration.

however, i very much doubt it will assist us greatly in things like space travel. i don't see how we are gonna go from a working fusion reactor to fusion propulsion

>>15060820
>iron a dead end
Yes.

>>15059979
any fusion that has the words "tritium" or "helium" in it is a useless scam

if we could make protium fusion it would be a useful technology, as it stands no one is even trying to create fusion reactors that wouldn't be completely useless, the entire field is one big scam

>>15064125
>Isn't the world IQ 100 by definition?
yes but they're being compared to the 100 IQ definition of people who died long ago

also more or less every single IQ study uses a different metric, it's a ranking system, not a score, it's only being used because the social pseudosciences are yearning for literally anythign with a large ammount of data, and the US army did an IQ test on all their recruits for a long time, so the IQ test is by far the test with the most data, even though it's useless

>>15060803
Why don't we just.. use He3 to kickstart a positive feedback loop where (leftover) energy is used to fuse deuterium into fuel that is used for the reactor
>picrel illustration

>>15059979
I'm skeptical but if it happens I'll immediately take advantage of it. Beyond that I don't really think much about the subject.

Can't they just put more money ?
You'd think the device that can turn lead into gold would be getting more investment.

>>15064660
Economically feasible fusion power will never happen.

>>15065378
Yeah but the people funding it don't have to know that.
How did CERN even get this much money, when there's barely any practical use to what they're doing ?

>>15065418
Techno-optimism/science worship is a hell of a drug. Whig history marches on.

>>15060638
Use commas you tard.

>>15065468
So what's preventing it from being commercially viable, other than lack of funding ?

>>15059979
new fleshlight model?

Gravity elsewhere fucks with our bodies, bone density, heart etc. You have to get halo out of your fuck8ng heads kidlets. And musk is a big kid, so don't think he'll save the day.

>>15065494
The laws of physics, mainly.

>>15065505
The laws of physics prevent nuclear fusion ?
Obviously not.
The laws of physics prevent magnetic confinement ?
Obviously not.

>>15065494
The efficiency of the lasers electrical power vs laser power is very low and the efficiency of conversion of the fusion reaction to electricity would also be low. There's still probably thousands of times more energy overall going in than coming out. Also the fact that the start up cost problem for fusion will be even worse than for fission so you're still nowhere near economically viable fusion power.

>>15065515
>>15065494
Also consider the fact that the current economy relies on fuel sources that have an EROI of greater than 10 at a minimum, and much higher for fossil fuels, so you still have at least 10 times more to go.

>>15065521
But solar panels have very low energy density and they still get government subsidies.
Even if nuclear fusion is a tough problem to solve it isn't one that can't be solved by simply hiring more people. If people followed that logic computers would be capped at 1980s performance levels.

I don't think fusion has any chance of beating fission or oil but the lack of trying is still depressing.

>>15059979
cold fusion will, yeah.

>>15061005
>Everyone else is dumb dumb dumb!
>Obviously not le heckin me.
If you care so much, have kids smarty pants.

>>15066541
easier said than done

>>15066548
Literally just cum inside a woman
Ohh never mind. I guess it is for you.

>>15066559

>>15065571
>There is currently no accepted theoretical model that would allow cold fusion to occur.

>>15066635
muon-catalized fusion. Creating muons is the hard part, though.

>>15061005

If only there was some sort of statistic that explained why humanity is getting dumber?

>>15066635
Low-energy plasma fusion and lattice modulated fusion.

>>15067112
>To create useful room-temperature muon-catalyzed fusion, reactors would need a cheap, efficient muon source and/or a way for each individual muon to catalyze many more fusion reactions. Laser-driven muon sources are one possible approach.[citation needed]

lol
lmao even

>>15061113
>be you
>be shitskin
>be retarded
oh those are all the same thing/ stfu about things you know nothing about shudra

>>15059979
>get two cargo ships to tug a line under water
>put reactor in between the breakpoint
>cavitation bubble forms
>Fusion solved
No need to thank me.

Someone mentioned this I think last year or maybe the year before, the who I forget. But basically the only way fusion energy gets solved is if you have 1,000 or 10,000 fusion projects happening the world over all trying different techniques to achieve success to get to the breakthrough that will get us to Q+10. If you trust the government to solve it first (ITER), it'll never happen on a realistic timescale.

This is simply because all the other non-government projects don't have blank checks, so to speak, which means they are forced to prioritize by starting small. It has the added benefit that if you solve the problem at small scale, going small to big is easy. ITER will face a massively different problem in that if they somehow succeed, they have to go big to small and big to small is 10-100x harder.

This particular approach is definitely unique and interesting. It may not be the breakthrough factor, but this will definitely move the needle. I imagine fusion, ultimately, is a combination of a half a dozen or a dozen different magnetic field confinement ideas all rolled into one project in the future, that achieves it. The only other known case of fusion is in the heart of stars, where gravity assists in density/compression, and the energy output + rotation of material/energy leads to giant magnetic bottles. Since we can't manipulate gravity, the best we can do is leverage magnetic fields to condense/compress to make up for the difference.

>>15059979
nope

we will divert all of this to black people for some reason