/sci/ - Science & Math

They have been announcing fusion breakthroughs every few years for the last 60 years. Maybe they should wait until they have an actual demonstration power plant operation and producing power for the grid.

>>15046253
True if big

This just seems like more advertising spin where they count on the public not knowing the difference between Q(plasma) and Q (total). They'd need to get at least an order of magnitude more energy out of the plasma to get anywhere close to a net power gain for an actual fusion plant. Fusion power is still 30 years away and will be for the next century.

>>15046253
>limitless, carbon free power
BUT only if you are gigavaccinated

>>15046253
Not reading all that shit bro, just answer my question, can I play my call of duty on it and masturbate to porn?

>>15046253
Can you place them in this chart? Thanks.

>>15046253
>NIF
BTFO retard

>>15046253
(120% energy gain)*(?% useful energy recapture)*(~40% steam turbine efficiency) < 48% useful energy gain.

Call me when they get over 250% energy gain.
This seems like a progress cocktease to help their begging-for-more-money campaign.

>>15046298
>order of magnitude
By what measure?

>>15046300
Yes because this will make communism work for the first time. Since it required migh infonite energy. Lasers can charge from space for free.

>>15046498
A power of ten, an energy ratio doesn't have any units if that's what you mean.

>>15046253
>This time for real, goyim! We just need a few trillion more dollars!

>>15046360
Forget the steam turbines, use direct energy capture

>>15046253
Even if we had fusion, the government would probably keep it a secret for like 50 years while they developed military applications first

>>15046579
Congratulations, you just improved the overall thermal -> electricity conversion efficiency from 35 to 37% using a far more complex design.
>most of the fusion power go to the blanket, the fuel itself holds like 10% of the total energy.

>>15046613
If you're using d-t fusion. In d-He3 fusion most of the energy is emitted in the form of protons, which can directly generate electricity

>>15046584
That's literally what happened in the 70's

>>15046619
>thinks that alpha particles doesn't have bremsstrahlung
Congratulations you just neutered your fusion reactor to be limited a 0.01 of the power of a DT reactor and now it needs a fuel only found in the Moon.

>>15046635
limited to*

>>15046635
>fuel only found in the Moon.
Cool now we have a massive incentive to invest in space colonization

>>15046648
>EROI and ROI says 'hello retard'

>>15046507
will it though? you will still probably have to pay some form of service for it based off our current market dynamics. we are in for a new age of virtue signaling where free universal energy is like the healthcare or education debates.

>>15046253
Qtotal is still shit
It's a nothing burger

>>15046298
a step forward is a step forward, rome wasn't built in a day

>>15046672
That's like saying "I've increased my max jump height by 20%, I should be able to fly by 2025"

>>15046253
>net energy gain
the C- I got in thermodynamics I 10 years ago tells me this is not possible

>>15046253
>50 more years

>>15046760
In principle it's like lighting a fire, they need some energy to cause the fusion reaction which releases more energy, except it's way more technically difficult so they only just now managed to get out more energy than they put in, but only when considering one particular part of the system.

>>15046253
>>The federal Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, which uses a process called inertial confinement fusion that involves bombarding a tiny pellet of hydrogen plasma with the world’s biggest laser, had achieved net energy gain in a fusion experiment in the past two weeks, the people said.
lol. I'm personally working on this shit. fuck da NDA.

>>15046770
oh. Well that's kind of a misleading statement. Looks like I still barely remember something from that class.

>>15046772
So is it just them hyping up Q(plasma) because the public think that means Fusion power plants are a few years away? Any reason to believe the tenfold power increase needed to make it viable is coming along any time soon?

>>15046253
>inertial confinement
Most of you will know this feeling.

>>15046795
Fuck magnetic confinement, I prefer cool lasers.

>NIF
idc

>>15046770
By "lighting a fire" you mean "reach temperatures millions of times hotter than the Sun's own core." And that's not even taking into account the energy required for the magnets when our current most advanced way of energy generation is boiling fucking water.

>>15046672
>rome wasn't built in a day
soientists have been at this for 70+ years. I imagine a fair amount of Rome was built in less than 70 years.

>>15046788
don't know, sorry. I'm just a EE guy working on the lasers.

>>15046811
Can the lasers burn through your body in seconds?

>>15046814
>Can the lasers burn through your body in seconds?
yes.

>>15046819
Wow. Cool to hear it directly from the source. Thank you.

>>15046825
theres like a room full of capacitors and they discharge in a nano second. I prefer not to be around when that happens.

>>15046819
Could you aim them my way?

>>15046772
As someone who's working on laser-based fusion systems what do you think of this?

>>15046760
you're converting potential energy into heat, retard
shouldn't have passed at all

>>15046867
no clue, sorry. I know nothing of fusion. only huge lasers.

WE ARE OFFICIALLY 19 YEARS AWAY FROM FUSION

>>15046518
needs about 10-100 times more than even that due to the energy of photons produced by lasers is likely far less than the energy input into the lasers.

>>15046811
What kind of laser are they using and how efficient is it at converting power into light?

>>15046917
>What kind of laser are they using and how efficient is it at converting power into light?
the coherent kind. it's extremely inefficient. very little of the emitted light gets turned into coherent light.

Fusion will literally never happen. Sorry for the spoilers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uPoDNEn3I0

Why is it always America always making the big advances?

Euroshits, Chinese, Japanese, etc. are always taking a backseat. This is despite the US being filled with people who know literally nothing - like can't even name a few countries nothing.

>>15046807
Its definitely not millions of times hotter than the sun's core bro. What would that be lol its over a million degerees by far in the core but even just a million million is a trillion.

I just heard that Fusion power is just a cover story for research into fusion bombs. Test bans mean they can't use fission bombs to create fusion so they built these test reactors to study fusion conditions with the cover story that they will one day generate power.

>>15047090
That's not a cover story, that's one of the explicitly stated purposes of the NIF.

>>15046950
So how many orders of magnitude gain do we really need to reach net fusion?

>>15046891
2 weeks ohmndv

>>15046253
using th NIF for a Star Trek set was so f'ing stupid.

Golf rumors.

>>15047230

>>15047105
>So how many orders of magnitude gain do we really need to reach net fusion?
no idea. I just do laser. no idea about fusion.

>>15047098
And the explicitly stated purpose of the NIH is to fund the curing of diseases, but what they actually do is make bioweapons.

>>15046760
well it's pretty obvious why you got a C-. The extra energy is coming from the energy of fusion.

>>15047273
Dump every dime you have into this company if you think they aren't blowing smoke up your ass. I'm sure you'll end up a trillionaire, just sure of it. Two more weeks for sure.

>>15047281
Man, you're retarded. Probably got a C- in English, too. Where did I claim that anything was going to be commercially viable?

>>15046360
>?% useful energy recapture
>this
IC is just cover for tactical thermonuclear weapons research

>>15046253
>2.5 megajoules of energy
Oh wow, 2.5 MEGAjoules! That sounds like a lot! I wonder how much that is compared to other energy sources
>The energy density of coal is roughly 24 megajoules per kilogram
Oh, so it's 0.1 kg of coal. that sucks.
>which was about 120 per cent of the 2.1 megajoules of energy in the lasers
make that a 0.4 megajoule energy gain, which is 0.016kg of coal. pathetic.

>>15046253
>https://www.ft.com/content/4b6f0fab-66ef-4e33-adec-cfc345589dc7
>financial times
>paywall

I get it, sci is the most blue pilled normie board on the chans, but please post links to archives

https://archive.vn/szeNj

>>15046867
My money is on boron proton laser driven fusion as it seems to me to be the most elegant solution to inertial confinement, you cant contain something as quantum jumpy and volatile as plasma by brute forcing it from the outside in a tokamak, the plasmoid route however allows the plasma to align itself

>>15046888
>>15046950
Is there any handhold in non linear optics and optical phase conjugation that could hope to boost this?

>>15046253
Burgers did it again. ;_;7 Thank you for your service to humanity

>>15046253
What's the duration? Producing power is one thing, sustaining the reaction is what matters most in energy production.

>>15047695
A few dozen nanoseconds, probably. Idk how long tiny fusion explosion takes place

>>15046635
>muh DT
enjoy your neutron radiation, faggot

>>15046650
>ROI for unlimited energy production makes it not worthwhile bro!
what kind of moron math is this

Doesn’t it take hundreds of MJ’s to charge the lasers though?

>>15047966
That's a lot of Michael Jacksons

>>15047974
Why did I laugh

>>15047974
Heee heee!

>>15047408
All science is a cover for weapons research. If that bothers you, you're in the wrong field.

>>15046253
Two more weeks, just trust us!!!

Two more decades fusionsisters!

>>15046291
Lmao that's probably sixty-seventy years away if even possible on an economical scale (hint: compared to fossil fuels or even traditional fission reactors it's not going to be market competitive in our lifetimes probably not in our children's lifetimes). Also how much electricity/energy usage will be required for the mass scale electrolysis and shipping of water for a source of hydrogen. Oh another question, does this process they have developed for fusion rely on protium or does it require a high percentage of deuterium and tritium to met the bet energy input?

>>15047640
Yeah, really cool. Gives me some renewed hope for my country and science in general.

>>15048408
The only useful reaction in 'small scale' is DT (D+T -> Li+n -> T and repeat), DD, D-He is 100 times worse (in power density, in 'easiness' is even worse).

>>15046253
>which was about 120 per cent of the 2.1 megajoules of energy in the lasers
Wow an anemic 5:4 EROI

>>15048471
Q and EROI aren't the same. EROI includes all, even the energy to make generators, structure, transport of the fuel, etc.
Q is always far better than the EROI

>>15048460
>The only useful reaction in 'small scale' is DT (D+T -> Li+n -> T and repeat),
By no means am I a fusion expert just a lowly materials scientist, I read Krane's introductory nuclear physics book several years ago but I am not positive exactly what you are saying but I am assuming you are stating that the fusion input fuel is some mixture of duetreum and tritium (DT) which fuses to form Lithium, 2D + 1T -> Li-7 or 2T +1D -> Li-8. Then Li undergoes nuclear decay due to instability when hit with another neutron (or two) which takes Li-8 + n -> 3T or Li-7 + n + n -> 3T.

Is this a correct (I know this is probably highly reductive science)?

Anyhow if D+T is the fuel source that makes the fuel source problem 100x more complicated as you either have to bombard water with neutrons for a reproducing fuel source (and also sort still) or you have to use centrifugal sorting of hydrogen to filter the tritium and duetreum from protium which is a fraction of a percent of naturally occurring hydrogen and there is probably almost no naturally occurring tritium, maybe trace amounts.

>>15046770
It's powered by phlogistons?

>>15046808
Yeah, Remus was really jelly over that sick fusion reactor his brother was building.

>>15048544
>which fuses to form Lithium,
No, I'm only mentioned the T cycle. The lithium blankets are irradiated by fast neutrons to generate more tritium, they're tritium breeders.
The fusion reaction itself it's:
D + T -> He4 + n

AFAIK the fuel cycle it's only a cryogenic separator to remove helium and cycle back tritium + deuterium, after the initial load of tritium and deuterium the only input is deuterium and lithium.

>>15048595
>e fuel cycle it's only
fuel cycle only would use*

>>15046632
so then we probably already have it

>>15046253
Sup, I work at LLNL, turns out Larry tripped over a sensor on the input line, and it was a misread.
This happened last weekend, and some intern mouthed off to CNN, we told them not to publish anything, but they ran with what the intern told them.
Tomorrow, our big announcement is going to be that we fixed the sensor issue, and we're going continue testing with "properly calibrated sensors" to see if we can "repeat the net gain results" which all of us know, we won't be able to, but we have to put out something because the news already ran with the story.

>>15046360
well said fellow thunderf00t afficianado

>>15048687

What is the chamce of this thing blowing up the entire world?

>>15048941
Not at all. They just made a very tiny amount of deuterium-tritium to go pop that's all.

>>15047063
>Why is it always America always making the big advances?
Most shameless liars.

>>15048687
sup LNLL, PNNL here. Good luck with all that fusion stuff. We'll be working on fission stuff here in the meantime

>>15047230
is there another image compilation like this?
I remember seeing it

>>15048941
unlike fission where things chain react, fusion has to be 'brute forced' into happening so anything going wrong doesn't lead to a runaway resulting in an explosion, instead it leads to the reaction fizzling out. this is also why it's so much harder to do

They have had working free energy machines since 2012, re: Golf Rumors.

Fuck off Tooker.

Great. Now we just have to wait until China gets a hold of this technology and then it will be easily accessible and inexpensive for everyone in the world. For now, it's gonna be gatekept by the Great Satan.

>>15049105
That's also exactly why fusion will always use more energy than it releases. The only way we have fusion that actually works is through using an atomic bomb to force the reaction.

>>15047457
okay, so scale it up 1000 times

>>15046253
>article is behind a literal pay wall
Well fuck you too OP.

>“The net energy gain is with respect to the energy in the light that was shined on the target, not with respect to the energy that went into making that light,” says University of Rochester physicist Riccardo Betti, who was also not involved with the research. “Now it’s up to the scientists and engineers to see if we can turn these physics principles into useful energy.”
LITERALLY
FUCKING
NOTHING

WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JurplDfPi3U

>>15046808
what they have done now is still significantly closer to being useful than what they were doing 70 years ago, part of rome HAS been built

>>15049385
maybe it scales

>>15049170
This technology is vaporware and will remain vaporware

>>15046867
cool, I am wondering,
how much energy does it take to create He+ particles per (3)(2900keV) and how does that affect Q(total) ?

>>15046841
Ooh ooh do me next!

Fusionsisters, what do you think of this company? https://www.spacedventures.com/offers/princeton-satellite-systems/pitch

> The net energy gain achievement applied to the fusion reaction itself, not the total amount of power it took to operate the lasers and run the project.
****

>>15046253
Why do they keep saying "U.S."

We are a global community. We, India, Somalia, China, France-Algeria, did it.

>>15046808
Not really. The first 100 years was basically mud huts and rape.

>>15046253
Did they research Muon .

>>15046253
>limitless, carbon free power

that they will somehow find a way to charge an arm & a leg for

>>15046360
This. And that is only what happened to the fuel pellet, 2MJ laser light in, 2.5MJ heat out. The big thing they are not telling is how much electricity they used to power those lasers. Well, that was something like 200MJ, so they are still two orders of magnitude net negative.

>>15047090
In theory a thermo nuclear is basically a "fusion" bomb ala uncontained fusion reaction which we already have.

Get in here
Secretary Granholm to Announce Major Scientific Breakthrough by DOE National Laboratory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eke5PawU7rE

>>15050376
those don't exist, actual thermonuclear bombs harness the neutron flux of a fusion reaction to produce a fission reaction on steroids (burning through a lot more material than the self-sustained fission alone could)

why cant we put nuclear bomb in a big pot of water with a small opening and let the steam flow in a dense manner to spin up a fan that will generate EM

>>15046253
>democrats need a talking point
>roll out fusion / life on mars "discovery"
Same shit.
Different year.

>>15050366
500MJ lasers. This so called "breakthrough" is funding bullishit and media food for the mass audience.

>>15046253
>they're all women
Can already tell the reported engineering outcomes has multiple errors in it.

>>15047974
They had to kill him in multiple Universes to achieve this.

>>15049266
Modern science is literally a gatekeep network.

>>15047966
At least 360

>>15046807
their point was just that the principle is the same, you start a reaction that releases potential energy and sustains itself as long as the conditions are maintained and reactants are still present, just like when lighting a fire

>>15049385
>>15050266
you can easily reach 80-90% efficiency with those lasers, so it's definitely noteworthy

>>15049587
check out this company instead:
https://brilliantlightpower.com/
way better alternative than fusion, and their technology already works

>>15046253
OP 99% of this thread are Jews. I just wanted to post to say you and your article are awesome. Also, I think magic from mana is involved because I was told in a vision 7 years ago that mana/magic was coming back to Earth but we we're keeping our technology. LoL.. :D!! Just look at the hair in this pic!! :D!!

PS: Due to Jew Psyops I probably won't be able to see your reply but according to mana thumbs you're my soul mate if you're a red haired cis girl. :P!!

>>15049068
sup PNNL, LANL here. Glad to see another fission chad in this thread

Expect more "breakthroughs" to occur now that the oil producing countries/blocs are starting to not only be uppity but banding together (BRICS and Saudi Arabia). Only now certain (((leaders))) the West start flirting with the idea of dropping oil reliance.

>>15047090
We have Fusion bombs since the 50s, lmao.

>* In August 2021, the NIF in California produced >1.3 MJ of fusion yield with 1.9 MJ of laser drive – a 70% conversion of laser energy to fusion energy. NOTE: A little over one hear to go from 70% conversion to 125%
Neat I like lasers pew pew

Fake and gay
Cringe and CNN pilled

They have allegedly caused ignition under some special and commercially impractical conditions.

LLVM head already said this is "decades" away from being a viable power source.

It's neat but don't lose your shit just yet.

>making a big fuss over nothing
can scientists stop with this bullshit, im so sick of it

>>15046253
Yeah, yeah, another "breakthrough", another "10 years until commercial operation". Heard all this before. Call me when it actually happens.

>>15050657
Okay, what's your number?

>>15047555
https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

haha!
retards who were saying: "twenty more years"
BTFO
fusion for the win!
In 10 years there will be one in every civilized country!

>>15050657
>just twenty more years

>>15050728
I would wait for China because I don't want my country to be dependent on the United States.

>>15046253
>a fucking scientific breakeven at only 120%
ICF at NIF has been cock-teasing with that for years, it's literally just another experiment with literally no roadmap into grid deployment. Fucking MCF is more likely to be actually useful as DEMO is alredy planned.

>>15050652
I've talked to him at one conference and the dude literally told me that they're just doing science and have no idea if or how it could be ever deployed as a power source. lmao

>>15050750
if they publish even the smallest data every physicist / nuclear engineer with IQ higher than midwit tier will be able to replicate it.

but what about ITER now?
is it obsolete?

150% net gain energy is fucking huge

>muh megajoules
Gee, I wonder why they don't talk about the power. Let's consider it. Multiple kJ laser pulses deposing ~ MJ of energy into the target over a time of the order of a nanosecond, assuming that we get the MJ energy back, we have average power of !!!!! 1 fucking milliwatt !!!! (nuclear powerplant = 2 megawatts every day, all year)

Now here is the kicker, these laser systems can shoot at best 100 times a day before shit gets fucked :)

>source: CNN.com

>>15050767
It's also fucked due to it's pulsed nature for the same reason as >>15050772. It will exist only to prove scientific breakeven for magnetic confinement fusion which should lead to grid-connected MCF plants like DEMO

>>15047230
>retarded conspiracy theory
>in comic fucking sans, of all fonts
No thanks

>target gain
>not general gain
so basically they still put 300 MJ in and got 3 MJ out.
Is this a scam? They're willfully overblowing this discovery. Does all this have purely political purposes?

>>15046760
>mfw im sharing this board with retards and argue with them as if they are my peer

>>15050841
It's just a breakthrough for inertial fusion that has been underwhelming for decades when it comes to Q at useful power levels.
Popsci journalists as usual turns an scientific achievement without immediate practical effects into bullshit articles.

>>15050607
>>15049068
>>15048687
SNL here, we should have a DOE complex general

>>15050841
They want to focus on fusion process first, not the efficiency of the laser.

>>15050841
i mean even if it is a scam, i know i'd rather have more of my tax dollars going to this research than a lot of other things that money goes to these days like the other green dead ends. if all this does is drum up more hype and funding, im all for it

>>15050841
t. nuclear power industry

>>15046302
The region for "ignition", you can place what NIF did there. The rest you'll probably have to wait for a scientific paper to be published.
>>15050841
They put 2.05 MJ in and got 3.15 MJ out. The 300MJ comes from equipment inefficiency- remember this is a research facility to prove plasma physics and ignition itself, mainly designed for weapons research. The fact they got definite fusion at 1.53x input energy is not just breakeven, but net gain. This is the first time *ever* we've gotten net gain, in any fusion device. A lot of people in gov leadership thought fusion was impossible, the fact they can said they did it, despite 1980s era technology and a shoestring budget for decades, really says something.
ICF is just one fusion technology, and probably not the best one, but fusion in general will probably see a massive budget increase worldwide now that it's been proven it can be done.
I fully expect a working fusion plant of some kind by 2030, assuming funding increases. Once we get them commercialized; coal, wind, solar and other power production will be obsolete for the most part. We can also use fusion heat to separate waste into it's base elements (you can recycle anything!), and help make any process needing a lot of thermal or electrical energy more efficient.
>>15050865
This was a "we proved it works" shot, scaling up comes later. NIF is designed mostly for weapons research, fusion was always secondary. The plasma physics data we get from these tests do accelerate ITER and other projects along, though.

>>15050988
> The plasma physics data we get from these tests do accelerate ITER and other projects along, though.
The problems of plasma stability, containment and tritium cycle that ITER aims to research bears almost no relation with NIF inertial ignition.
You can't improve car engines (ICE or fuel cells) with research on Kerbs cycle even if both are about 'oxidation'.
To make sense as power source NIF needs to improve at least 2-3 orders of magnitude more.

>>15050988
>They put 2.05 MJ in and got 3.15 MJ out.
yeah through a laser powered by 300 MJ with losses of 297.95 MJ...

>>15050988
>This is the first time *ever* we've gotten net gain, in any fusion device
Anon, how do you think an H-bomb works?

>>15047243
how efficient would a laser be that is designed for max efficiency. 50%,75%, 90%, 99%?

"they had to use 300MJ of electricity to power up their lasers."

>>15051017
Being able to examine plasma behavior at and post ignition isn't a minor thing, even if the method of initiation is different. FWIW I actually think Magneto-inertial fusion is going to beat both Tokamaks and NIF style laser inertial confinement to commercialization; but that's literally just a personal opinion.
>>15051037
Fair nitpick, I should have said " first documented net gain in any controlled fusion device". A fair amount of nay-sayers thought it couldn't be done outside of an H-bomb.
>>15051029
We only care about energy we're looking at inside a system we're analyzing. I very much get and agree we need to see more, a LOT more before it's "viable" but this was a first step.

The Tsar bomba was a thermonuclear weapon, detonated during the 1960s, it's explosive yield was an enormous 50 megatons.

The orignal design for the bomb produced 100mt, the only difference with the produced weapon was the addition of a Uranium 238 tamper which would produce an additional 50 megatons of explosive power, fissioned by the neutrons released from the tertiary Fusion stage of the weapon.
The weapons researchers decided to omit this, as it was understood that such an enormous Uranium tamper would create a large amount of fallout, as would the increased size of the fireball which would contact the surface of the earth.

As a result of the tamper's omission, the bomb was an exceptionally clean weapon; 97% of the explosive yeild was the result of Fusion.
This means we can guess that at a bare minimum the fusion stages of the bomb produced 30 times their activation energy from the fissile components (in reality probably considerably higher due to the inefficiencies and overkill of the design).

So why then does it matter that the NIF produced a Q plasma of 1.2?, The NIF is equally as useless at producing electricity as thermonuclear weapons, in fact arguably you can (impractically) make energy with thermonuclear bombs, whereas the NIF could never make electricity.
So why do we care about this extremely arbitrary milestone?

>>15051228
Sure but having positive plasma energy turns the problem from a fusion problem to a laser problem. making more efficient lasers is a lot easier than increasing Q for fusion (probably)

>>15046760
>Gasoline makes my car go forward
>UHHHH THIS ISNT POSSIBLE BECAUSE I READ ENERGY CANT BE CREATED OR DESTROYED
The fission products have less energy in the bonds than the reactants dumbass

>>15046253
Tuesday will be the announcement, you say? Good. Everything should be here by then.

>>15051237
>" first documented net gain in any controlled fusion device"
a hydrogen bomb explosion is anything but uncontrolled

>>15046760


You guys are aware that the Mass of the W Boson inside of a the Hydrogen Proton in this Breakthrough is Greater than that of the Proton itself right???

Let me repeat that.

The internal parts of an atom, have magnitudes more mass than the total atom itself.

Not many people know this :)

Thats how net positive is possible

E=MC2

The fusion product from the single hydrogen proton breakthrough was A helium atom + a neutron + heat

The combinatory nature of the inner parts/and their charges and spins differs from the outer atomic structures and rules

Like the product they made Helium...has an atomic weight of 2

And they started with a weight 1

So from 1 proton and adding some light they made a 2 proton element, helium, with a neutron + heat(excited electrons and light emission spectra) yadda yadda

So the atom level entropy in terms of atomic weight actually doubles too

This breakthrough is more anomalous and miraculous than people are giving it credit but also somewhat explainable if you keepup to date with quark measurements

>>15051237
>Being able to examine plasma behavior at and post ignition isn't a minor thing
But the plasma is nothing like that in a tokamak. Much lower density, much higher beta. It's also not self sustaining, these things are pulsed.
>Fair nitpick, I should have said " first documented net gain in any controlled fusion device".
That is wrong too. It's not net anything.
>>15051279
With the Q they claim to have reached the inefficiency of steam turbines alone makes generating energy impossible. They have increase Q. And they have to increase the efficiency of the lasers. And build a system which can go to many shots per second from the current gap of hours. Unlike serious concepts no one really has a plan to do all of that.

>>15051427
>With the Q they claim to have reached the inefficiency of steam turbines alone makes generating energy impossible. They have increase Q. And they have to increase the efficiency of the lasers. And build a system which can go to many shots per second from the current gap of hours. Unlike serious concepts no one really has a plan to do all of that.
You are right, but the milestone of positive plasma energy is a very meaningful one. Before fusion power was "Impossible", as even with 100% efficiency there was a net power loss. Now it is "possible" in the sense that with 100% efficiency there is net power gain. Q still has to be raised orders of magnitude, and efficiency has to be increased by orders of magnitude, but it is a much more optimistic position to be in.

many fusion naysayers have claimed even getting this far was impossible, and they have all just been BTFO

i came here from pol
This all pol stuff but intstead of people u pol abt science
GJ

>>15051449
>Before fusion power was "Impossible", as even with 100% efficiency there was a net power loss.
But that's a silly argument. You're saying it was previously "impossible" because it had not been done yet. But similarly a 100% efficiency back and front end has never been done. So if your definition of impossible net gain was impossible and is still impossible.
If you scale up JET today it would break net gain. That is not impossible just because it hasn't been done.
But really this is just a complete nonsense way to define "impossible". Something which is actually impossible will never be possible unless physics changes.
Something isn't impossible because it hasn't been done. Every physicist knows fusion net gain is possible, the Sun shines.
>many fusion naysayers have claimed even getting this far was impossible
Quote me one person who though NIF breaking their own definition of ignition was impossible. Nobody cares about this definition outside of these projects.

>>15051490
>Controlled ignition isnt going to happen
>Ignition is achieved
>UHH WE DIDNT MEAN *THAT* IGNITION

>>15051505
And who said this? Please cite a link.

>>15047063
I'd imagine it's because we can print money

>>15046567
>threats to the Saudi and Russian economy emerges
>people come out of the woodwork blaming phantom jews
Every fucking time

>>15050988
>equipment inefficiency

>>15051505
People have done controlled plasma ignition in SAFIRE and nobody thinks that's going to revolutionize energy generation lol.

>>15046567
>>15051864
a few trillion for fusion would be the bargain of the millennium

>>15051279

Do you care how much kindling it takes to start a campfire? Once they know how to sustain the reaction, the output will far outweigh the initial energy costs.

>>15047063
they hate us because they ain't us

im retarded but can someone explain the difference to me between just burning hydrogen, and using it in a fusion reaction?

>>15049084
many such compilations

>>15049084
>>15052297

>>15052081
Id care if that fire only lasts for a second. The kindling would be better off keeping me warm as an insulator. Does this need 200 mega joules just to start or continuously run. Like once you start it it just keepss running as long as you have fuel.

>>15051992
Nope. SAFIRE hadn't released any data or publications to back up the claim they have fusion at all, much less ignition. It has now transitioned to an energy scam so it's now gone secretive. Only a moron would believe their claims without a shred of evidence.

>>15052495
It doesn't continuously run at all. A microsecond after the shot it's over, you need to charge the capacitors again. ICF is not practical for energy.

>>15047063
Suck my CERN balls u american pig human

>>15050583
>Brilliant Light Power has developed a new commercially competitive, non-polluting, plasma-based primary source of massive power from the conversion of hydrogen atoms of water molecules to dark matter, the previously unidentified matter that makes up most of the mass of the universe.
>The SunCell® that was invented to harness the new power source catalytically converts hydrogen directly into dark matter form called Hydrino® releasing brilliant high-energy light which is down-converted in energy to facilitate the production of electricity using commercially-available concentrator photovoltaic cells.
Is this satire?

>>15046253
Friendly reminder that the NIF is not to improve our quality of living by enabling access to clean and renewable energy or share its findings to the scientific community. The NIF is only there to invent new ways of destroying hospitals on the other side of the Earth for "muh freedom".

>>15046253
>have lazer and two atoms
>each pairing requires unique frequencies of lazer
>limitless forms of super energy are here
>this technology will be and is used for the creation of gravitational/time propulsion as new fusion pairings/groupings output raw universe energy untapped
>tier 4 civ achieved

>>15050815
That's the joke you goof.

>>15047063
>Why is it always America always making the big advances?
Must we go down this path all the time? Learn some history.

>>15047063
If you exploit 99.9% of your people and give the wealth they produce to the remaining 0.1% then that group can achieve great things. The hard part is convincing the 99.9% to keep working and expect just not dying (yet) as a reward. Europoors and Asians aren't stupid enough to let their quality of life suffer for some rich people's games.

>>15049473
>maybe it scales
so what your saying is we need to build one 100x bigger.

>>15051414
I don't follow at all.
2 hydrogen atoms are fused to create helium, no? So how can you have fusion from a single hydrogen proton? Where do the additional proton and neutron in the products come from?

>>15052874
>Doesn't know how hard East Asians work

>>15046253
Can someone explain what the difficulty with fusion is? We've had H-bombs since the 50s. Why don't we just use small H-bombs to vaporize water and then use the steam to spin turbines just like every other power source?

>>15053326
Typically more energy is required to trigger the fusion reaction than the reaction gives off in a controlled environment.

The problem is creating a controlled environment where you can set off fusion reactions

>>15047063
We have the smartest people in the world (for now anyway). It is all about the 0.1% IQ tier. The 100s of millions of retards aren't going to suddenly make a difference with IQs of 105 instead of 90. That being said, the US is working harder than ever to destroy our last remnants of innovation and productivity. In 10 years time all these advances will be coming out of Asia

>>15053332
So more energy goes into an H-bomb than we get out of it? That doesn't seem right

>>15046360
>>15046613
are we really still going to just boil water but now with fusion?

>>15053339
No, what happens in an H-bomb is a fusion reaction is triggered that sustains itself for a brief period of time with a fission detonator being used as the initial power source.

What they are trying to do to harness fusion energy is create a controlled environment where they can consistently apply energy and harvest the surplus energy that comes off a fusion reaction. The problem isn't causing a fusion reaction, it's controlling it.

>>15053345
:)
Steampunk never died

>>15046731
Not even comparable.

>>15050841
Let me break it down for you so your doomer mindset can understand it. The energy to produce the laser by itself is not important for the experiment. The important part, and the one that was not yet achieved was the energy of the laser being lower than the energy produced. Now engineers can work on reducing the laser's energy requirements and scale up the reactor because it was proven that you can generate energy with nuclear fusion. But the actual process itself is ground breaking to any Physicists or someone who follows Nuclear Power.

>>15053433
But.... as soon as you were close to net profit, you could've just started lowering energy requirement of laser to eventually get net profit.

>>15053433
You are a midwit. We laugh at you from the national nuclear labs. This is a grift for more funding. We've had this data laying around for a decade, but the Nespresso is broken and my herman miller is getting a bit old.

>>15052810
military technology often does wonders in the civilian sector, look at GPS, the internet, microwaves, nuclear reactors, etc.

>>15046253
Finally a new way of boiling water.

>>15047090
Seems like a waste of time. We already have the ultimate weapon, we don't need bigger and more expensive ones. Current nuclear doctrine is lots of small cheap ones.

>>15053433
okay retard

>>15046253
Y'all being duped. The ignition only discusses the actual fusion reaction itself. They omitted the power required for the lasers to cause the fusion in the first place.

Space Travel here we go!
Finally, I can leave this worthless planet!

when u realize refridgerators delete energy
and u can invert that thru entropy

wispy

>>15046253
>"Breakthrough"
>Not chatGPT
kek

>>15053339
No, of course an H-bomb releases more energy than goes in. The issue is H-bombs aren't pure fusion devices. The contain plutonium. In fact the purpose of the fusion is actually to generate neutrons which irritate the plutonium, forcing it to undergo complete fission. In a standard fission bomb only a little bit of the plutonium actually undergoes fission.
So you could produce an H-bomb powered steam engine, but it would really be a boosted fission reactor.
We don't want to do that, we want to run on pure fusion in as large or small quantities as we desire.

>>15052664
>Only a moron would believe their claims without a shred of evidence.
Same with this. That was my point.

Holding out for peer review