/sci/ - Science & Math

>>15028466
Natural laws are just a description of what we repeatedly observe. Miracles are alleged things we don't repeatedly observe, that are counter to natural laws.

Science is based on a principle. Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest.

>>15028472
How would you know that you are not repeatedly observing a miracle or, contrariwise, that you are not observing a paradigm shifting natural phenomena which contradicts current natural laws?

>>15028489
Tautological argument, the way we define phenomena as being natural/supernatural is its repeatability.

>>15028489
Because that would be against their definitions. What if short people were actually tall and tall people were actually short?

>>15028528
Natural and supernatural phenomena are defined only by their natural and supernatural causes, respectively. Again, how would you know that you are not repeatedly observing a miracle or a natural phenomenon which contradicts known natural laws?

>>15028466
Miracles are/would be part of science

>>15028466
Simple: Your god doesn't exist. Also, hope you enjoy your ban for posting a religion vs science thread.

>>15028545
Are you retarded? Because if they were repeatable, we would be able to model them as a science; thus, it would be considered natural.

>>15028567
But would it actually be natural? How would you know that you are not repeatedly observing a miracle?

>>15028573
If God exists then nothing is natural. Miracle just means God intervening in the normal course of events. Normal is simply relative.

>>15028573
That's a question of metaphysics, you know philosophy, than actual science, so go to >>>/his/. There's no definitive way to confirm that with science.

>>15028573
How do you know I'm not fucking your dad every night? Have you noticed he's been acting weird lately?

>>15028579
How can you discern between the normal course and the christian god specifically intervening in your empirical investigations?

>>15028466
If a phenomenon can be reliably and repeatedly observed or demonstrated, then we can conclude it is natural. If some phenomenon /cannot/ be reliably and repeatedly observed or demonstrated, then it is an anomaly that we can, at best, speculate about.
>>15028573
If miracles exist, then they are part of nature. If magic existed, then the study of magic would be a science.

>>15028466
If god exists, then how could evil exist?

>>15028573
Lol what the fuck even is this retarded sophistry

The natural sciences define nature as that which we perceive through the senses.
Anything not observable in nature cannot even be said to exist.
>>15028472
fpbp
>>15028579
>If God exists then nothing is natural.
Begging the question.
>>15028597
Yes, we do find supernormal phenomena in nature.
>>15028606
>How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?
Begging the question.
>>15028573
Yes, they would actually be natural.

>>15028606
>If god exists, then how could evil exist?
You don't define what is good and what is evil. God defines them. And unfortunately for us, one of the consequences of free will is that we're allowed to do things we consider subjectively evil to each other. Hence "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

>>15028466
the christian god does not exist, neither does any supernatural forces, and religion was created by ignorant primitive people

>>15028466
I see no difference

>>15028625
You are either observing a phenomenon with a natural cause or you are observing a miracle if the christian god exists.

>>15028652
god could've created a world with free will and without evil, or do you believe god is not omnipotent?

>>15028709
He did, it's called Eden. Have you even read the Bible? It's in the first chapter nigga.

>>15028489
Do you not see your own sentience as a miracle? I mean, it does defy all the patterns of other known animals

>>15028709
Do you have any sound metaphysical reasoning for proposing that God is omnipotent?