/sci/ - Science & Math

when is the last time there has been genuine innovations in this field?

Most of the innovations were created by engineers outside of the field entirely.

>>15016793
Legally put on trial all medical personnel responsible for promoting the covid19 mRNA vaccine and, if found guilty, subject them to summary execution under the penal code of their state.

>>15016807
Would this include all doctors or only high ranking decision makers?

I don't believe every doctor was evil. John Campbell is a good example you can see he genuinely got fooled.

>>15016821
Start from the top and work your way down. Local pushers who harangued people over their choices without remorse may be found guilty by a jury. It's hard to say.

>>15016826
I don't think that will work anon. Good men who were tricked into doing the wrong things are not the same as malicious actors.

I do think they should be sued and lose their licenses but killed that would only be warranted for the most malicious/incompetent of decision makers.

>>15016793
Flood the market with more doctors and nurses. the current bottleneck isn't competence (in North America anyways), the number is just artificially kept low so the demand/salaries remain high.
And even if there was a small drop in average IQ the deaths from medical errors aren't caused by stupidity but rather apathy.

>>15016892
Its true one of the biggest constraints is time. You don't even need a high IQ to be a doctor. But it takes a lot of effort memorizing things that they will likely forget or use google to figure out in the future.

If I remember correctly being a doctor is one of the most memory intensive degrees. This is often flawed as memory only remains for things you actively have done or are doing in the present. Figuring out how to solve a problem as opposed to memorizing a formula is the default in STEM.

So do you think it could be solved if we allowed companies to privately create Certificates for various medical positions? And then let the consumer decide which to use. I would have considered such a pathway if it were 4-6 years but its more like a decade. I could never wait that long.

>>15016892
Here's a cheaper idea:
Stop overloading your crap with sugar and start eating your damn vegetables, you bloated fatass

Don't complain about lack of nurses when the biggest source of hospitalization are super preventable

Eat healthy and shame the fat

>>15016898
I agree with that too obviously.

>>15016898
Well the issue is our medical culture never looks at the root causes of things. Some doctors do give good advice in this way but I have seen many more just prescribe a pill.

Doctors are not trained to problem solve but rather come up with memorized solutions for various issues. This is neccisary in many cases but it should never be the first or 2nd approach to solving an issue.

If someone is depressed for example SSRIs should be like the 4th thing you try. And should be reserved for those who are on the brink of killing themselves. They should be asking if the person is a healthy weight. Do they exercise. Do they have any friends irl. Do they have long term goals. Are they in a job that is below what they should be doing. I would say 90% of depressed people at least have one major environmental thing wrong with them making depression not a chemical imbalance but a natural reaction.

>>15016793
>How would you fix the modern day medical industrial complex?

Get government out of healthcare.

>>15016907
But doctors will never ask these questions. A drug is the first thing they are trained to do.

I'm not sure how they get around this because its simply way more effective to prescribe pills if you want money. Some how there has to be an incentive to do things cheaper and find the most straight forward solutions.

>>15016909
lol ok

>>15016911
Gee, Obamacare made shit worse according to chart. Who woulda thunk it!

>>15016932

>>15016932
Are you surprised? Obama was not a real black man, just another house slave to the Jew controlled Democrats.
Ye be modern day Malcolm X!

>>15016837
Damn that sucks maybe it will be a lesson to the next crop of "good men" to not listen to scam artists uncritically.

>>15016985
You are going after low hanging fruit.

Not the source

>>15017000
I can walk and chew gum at the same time. They hanged even lowly camp guards at Nuremberg.

>>15017003
I would say it would be fair to let people decide for doctors that were complicit after the larger more important people are gotten rid of

>>15017007
Which is exactly what I said should be the case. But as was established by the judgments over the Holocaust, a reckoning will need to come for the people who carried out the orders, or it will happen again.

>>15016911
>America stops being a majority white country
There’s so many fun correlations to it.

>>15017014
In fact you can see the decline begin before Reagan when the browning began ramping up in the late 70s and early 80s.

>>15016807
>>15016821
>>15016826
>>15016837
This will make everything ten times worse, for so many reasons.

>>15016892
While I believe this is necessary, I don't exactly know how this would be implemented. Let's say you can find 1 million people who are interested because of the pandemic. A million college tuitions could cost anywhere between 5 billion and 100 billion dollars, depending on college. That isn't even including the prices for the extra years of education for doctors!

>>15016898
Eat healthy yes, shaming won't really work. Instead highlight exercise, declare Planet Fitness a terrorist organization, and either subsidize exercise equipment or make using cars a lot harder.

>>15017017
>when the browning began ramping up in the late 70s and early 80s.
Places like Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, USA, Canada, were all shining examples of modern society, until the browning began. The downfall of western civilization and humanity as a whole, will be their tolerance to Africans and Asians.

>>15017017
browning began with LBJ, worst US president.

>>15016911
Why does the arrow for greece go backwards in time at the end? While I don't disagree with you, I need the sauce.

>>15017036
x axis is spending, not time

>>15016793
Remove the AMA from having prestige. Minimize the administrative costs by reducing pay significantly for those roles. Promote innovation in affordable options. Punish physicians that show incompetence and apathy to kill off those only seeking the role for prestige. Reform the litigation system around medical malpractice and make it to where only serious cases can be litigated, reducing costs and cases. Force academia to be separated, and kill off their ability to affect education requirements for non-practicing medical staff.

>>15017021
Academia in general should be largely defunded. Something will have to replace it but in the long run its better.

Certificates or online schools that are funded by companies themselves. And if you are rich or get a scholarship you can still fuck off to any school. Its the government backed loans that are the issue. And the regulation that forces companies to hire people with qualifications.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/f5JJ5lyEuWXN/

>>15017030
>browning began with LBJ, worst US president.
They were all bad since Teddy Roosevelt. Trump was the best of the bad ones in the last century.

>>15017021
>This will make everything ten times worse, for so many reasons.
I'm sure you can name one then, Mr. Doctor who definitely isn't going to face the rope in a legal manner.

>>15017041
A lot of these issue go back to Academia it controls a lot of the innovation we have. In the past innovation in medicine came from many people. A lot of famous doctors from the 1800's were mathematicians and physicists.

Tech based solutions are going to become more appealing as people realize most general doctors are basically glorified google search engines

>>15017077
Tech-based solutions don't have the same level of intuition that a physical person might. When you have a good doctor, they'll have a second nature to check various things. The problem is having so many bad ones that don't give a fuck either way. Realistically, the medical industry just gatekeeps the diagnostic toolbelt.

>>15017077
>most general doctors are basically glorified google search engines
Nice description.

>>15017088
Covid proved that a shitload of people without a medical degree know better than the majority of doctors.

>>15017077
yes exactly, relevant >>15017054
we had adequate tech based solution for diagnosis in the early 2000s.

>>15016793
Completely abolish the prescription medical system and FDA approval process. Reduce the role of the FDA to a lab testing organization that only ensures manufactured drugs are pure and their labels accurate. All medical decisions are given back to the patients, who are now free to use whatever treatments they want.

When the system no longer forces people to use shitty drugs that don't work, their use will drop to 0, and companies will have to make good products to make money.

>>15017088
Well I am not arguing all of it can be automated. But I do think in the case of general doctors most of the things they do could be done away with software.

Most doctors themselves use google to plug in your symptoms. Medical software is very powerful I've seen it with my own eyes save thousands of people by cross referencing various doctors decisions.

This won't effect all doctors but a good portion will be unnecessary with this technology. Human beings were superior back when all the records were on paper but with the sheer amount of data we have today a machine would be better for general type things.

>>15017091
Categorically false, it proved a lot of doctors aren't willing to risk losing their career for political reasons if the alternative is mindlessly making bank while risking nothing because some government patsy like fauci will take the hit if something does go tits up.
It doesn't take a lot of brain power to use the precautionary principle.

>>15017091
>Covid proved that a shitload of people without a medical degree know better than the majority of doctors.
Also proved that medical degrees and college degrees in general are absolute garbage these days.

Universities are just money laundering diploma mills now.

>>15017091
It's a lot of education and bullshit barriers that keep people who would be great at it out. I don't mean this in the diversity and inclusion way, but in the requirements of a metric fuckton of money, education, and time way.

>>15017102
The same tech google has used for a decade could be adapted to most hospitals today and it would do a better job then your average doctor.

We don't need humans to be glorified memory banks. We need humans to solve original problems and find the roots of issues. If doctors are going to behave in a robotic manner then it would be better if they were replaced by software at least it will be impartial.

>>15017129
Symptoms can be too similar across various diseases for tech. It would end up costing significantly more overall to get a diagnosis.

>>15017137
It would be rocky at first but the more data there is the better the tech will become.

Also doctors do the same thing all the time.

>>15017109
This. The FDA needs to be gutted.

>>15016909
Exactly

>>15016911
Note that the US is pretty much the worst country on that chart from the very beginning. Health care costs started to go off the rails here after the introduction of Medicaid in the 60s and then got way worse with its expansion under Reagan and HW Bush. Every new degree of government intervention has stifled competition, reduced transparency, and allowed systems to increase costs without consequence.

>But muh "free" European healthcare
Europoors can't afford energy, can't afford cars, and can barely afford food. They live in much smaller houses than Americans and have much lower wages. Their standards of living are worse in almost every way. Their healthcare sucks ass, and they have no medical innovations or technological development. Their shitty healthcare systems run on 10-year-old American medical products and are kept afloat because America pays for Europe's military defense.

>>15017141
They do because they're shitty doctors that can't diagnose outside of your basic (thyroid, HDL/LDL, hypertension, insulin, basic hormone panel) tests or infections. That's part of why we have such a problem with antibiotic resistance. Dumb faggots prescribing antibiotics without checking the nature of an infection or whether it's even bacterial.

>>15017152
There will need to be a human component for sure but with the power of data there isn't much that can't be done. It will still be human's who choose what to do with the data but the accuracy of the data will become better and better the more exposure these systems have.

One only needs to look at how good places like google have gotten in such a short time span

>>15017164
Medical databases and medical ML is trash because of the broken research system. It cannot produce useful results until we totally rebuild academia.

>>15017021
>>15016898
Here's how to enforce fitness:
Double or even triple the taxes on sugar
Destroy car culture and build trains.
Subsidize vegetables and fruits

In the US? Step 1 is to outlaw direct-to-consumer marketing for pharmaceuticals.

And I've only read summaries of Ivan Illich's medical nemesis, but he seemed to predict the direction the healthcare industry would take, down to doctors using ventillators to kill patients (especially purebloods) and get paid by the government for it.

>>15017167
That's true yeah the adjustment period will be awful. But there are promising results with things like Watson Health.

Hopefully the demand needed to fund these systems will arise. I'm optimistic that tech in itself can undue a lot of the damage

>>15017172
I've had direct experience with Watson Health and it's pure garbage. Absolute raw trash and basically just a scam.

>>15017172
>I'm optimistic that tech
Is anyone going to tell him?

>>15017173
I think services like these are a great start.

Patient data needs to be more straight forward. It was designed for humans to read if we changed the way it was written machines could use it more easily

Return to folk medicine.

>>15017195
>chinese medical anything

>>15016897
>allow the consumer to dscide which to use
Lol imagine your brain is bleeding and you are collapsed on the floor and you are still expected to make an informed decision on which hospital to go to in the ambulence. Though this would also be impossible because ambulences only go to the nearest hospital, so you could be going to SJW black female doctors only hospital which has almost no certification requirements

>>15017213
If you have no health care or plan in advance then you won't get coverage or you get sent where you get sent end of story.

>>15017218
Which is how it is now pretty much. Unless you are dying you could be stabbed and you still might have to wait in line.

>>15017218
Still ambulences only go to the nearest hospital. Thats why its important to standardize this shit. Its okay if you get something bad when you buy shoes or laptops but healthcare is people's lives

>>15017225
Gatekeeping so far has just produced a class of good goy pill pushers and useless brown nurses who don't do any work. Perhaps the system should be dismantled until we can figure out what's going on.

>>15016793
Apply socialism on doctors, offer them a good credit and force them to receive less wages, if they don't like it there's a big line behind them

>>15017164
Google has actually gotten considerably worse over time.

>>15017257
That's because google's goal is no longer to find you the best most accurate result based on what you search. It has to filter out various things.

This is much more difficult then creating a search engine the accurately pulls up what you want

This anon is right >>15017251

>>15017225
I never said any solution will be easy it will probably temporarily make things a lot worse. But there really is no way to uproot things without at least a little chaos and unintended effects. There will be a very harsh adjustment period but things will fine tune themselves. I really don't see a way around this sadly there will need to be suffering.

>>15017195
There's value in folk medicine, but it needs appropriate research. We tend to seek out active ingredients for use in supplementation, or even developing pharmaceuticals from. There should be a stronger focus on how those active ingredients work with the other constituents.

>>15017273
>There's value in folk medicine, but it needs appropriate research. We tend to seek out active ingredients for use in supplementation, or even developing pharmaceuticals from. There should be a stronger focus on how those active ingredients work with the other constituents.
When something is found to work, then Government and Pharma makes it illegal and/or regulates the shit out of it and destroys it.

Government is the source of all medical problems.

>>15017279
The FDA trying to ban NAC should have resulted in prosecutions.

>>15017257
>Google has actually gotten considerably worse over time.
Google is controlled by the government and used to push certain propaganda, narratives, and drugs/medical procedures that make it's owners and financers more money and power.

>>15017281
What are the benefits of NAC anon?

>>15017273
>but it needs appropriate research.

Well then you're in luck.

Everything in that book has been being researched for millennia. Whatever you claim to practice is a joke compared to that.

>>15017252
>Apply socialism on doctors
that has not worked for the last century of use. KYS broken record.

>>15017279
>>15017281
The Democrats-Deepstate are banning over 140 new supplements, herbs, and medicines this next year. Law was already passed and goes into effect over the next year or two.

>>15017284
It's a very effective antioxidant supplement that can provide major positive benefits for a whole host of diseases where oxidative stress is a concern, and is especially effective in treating respiratory diseases as it also breaks down abnormal lung mucus.

>>15017295
This^ plus it also helps restore damaged liver to normal functions and prevent harm due to enviro-toxins.

>>15017288
I mean researched in a more advanced way that we didn't have the ability to do until recently. Examining tissue samples, how it affects each body system, measure blood labs, whether there are positive changes that build over time and long-term effects, etc..

>>15017292
Got a list, anon?

>>15017313
The people responsible for passing down that knowledge over generations have developed more advanced techniques than any of the ones you've conceived of.

>>15017324
Are you going to elaborate on that? I'm a heavy supporter of herbalism, but you're giving elusive tumblr witch commentary.

>>15017292
Dems will unleash the state on you for using safe, common health supplements while simultaneously decriminalizing heroin and meth. They will never let you do something if it has any chance of helping you, only if it is guaranteed to make your life worse.

I can barely put into words how much I hate the Democrat party. I long for a national divorce every day.

>>15017338
If you think this is about democrats vs republicans or red vs blue then you have no clue.

>>15017331
I can't read a book for you.

>>15017338
A national divorce would just be capitulating. The nation belongs to the people who built it and continue to maintain it.

>>15017343
Then take a picture of the cover title. Or find links.

>>15017352
I'm sorry anon. I diagnose you as terminally retarded and lazy. That's going to be fatal.

>>15017340
Sorry, but this is the midwit take being confused with enlightenment.

The Democrat party has statism and collectivism built into their party platform. Every time they "win," our lives are guaranteed to get worse. The Republican party has individualism built into their platform, which is correlated with economic freedom and prosperity.

The confusion lies in the fact that establishment Republicans are actually also statists. Their role is to be the "dignified losers" as the Democrats use the government to take over our lives. The establishment Rs also try to reduce freedom when they can (e.g., the patriot act), but their voter base no longer tolerates such actions, so they mainly function to stop principled Republicans from gaining any real power.

>>15017340
>>15017364
However, at the end of the day, there is a real tangible difference between Republican policies and Democrat policies. We can see this by noting the massive difference between living in Florida and living in California.

The Democrats have been targeting health supplements in particular for years. In the 90s they were proposing laws so crazy that Mel Gibson even made a commercial about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV2olDA0w8U . Their efforts failed because of massive public backlash.

Redpill alert
The root of illness is toxicity and nutrition. To fix both of those would be very complicated.
Read Dr weston prices work and realize that humans on healthy natural diets that have not been injected with toxins hardly get disease/illness
Promote Terrain theory amongst the masses

>>15017360
I diagnose you as a dumb asshole being intentionally evasive under the guise of attempting to be mysterious and intelligent.

>>15016798
There is a Hepatitis C cure with a 99% effectiveness since 2017

>>15016793
I would have a healthcare system that is more like Singapore's. When you turn 18, you get a $5,000 HSA that you are required to contribute 3.5% of your income into until the age of 38, after which you can continue to put money in as a pretax, kind of like a 401K. The employer medicare taxes that are paid are then block granted to the states to set up their own insurance programs. Relying more on HSAs and direct primary care is the most realistic way to fix healthcare in America.

>>15016821
>John Campbell
He's a nurse, not a physician

>>15017479
Primary care in the US is trash though. They've been trying to use primary care as the gatekeeper for cost control inthe US for years now, and all it's proven is how incompetent those doctors are at doing anything beyond basics. The rest of what you suggested sounds great, though I imagine they would just increase the costs of healthcare again to make sure profits still outweigh everything else.

>>15017486
>They've been trying to use primary care as the gatekeeper for cost control inthe US for years now
Some individual states have tried, but it doesn't work because the federal government still controls too much and Obamacare was just a blowjob bill to the largest insurance companies.

>>15017499
Yeah, the administrators are shoveling in the money while they monopolize hospitals and reduce the ability for physicians to operate independently.
>Some individual states have tried, but it doesn't work
It's the insurance companies themselves that control that aspect. It's why we have utilization review and so much red tape with hospital entry and everything else, insurance companies trying to keep from paying costs and the jewing betwixt the providers, healthcare institution where care is provided, and insurance companies. We've never really gotten a free market down within the US, and can't because there's a quadrillion different payers involved in healthcare. They're all required to meet certain standards anyway, and have to be competitive, that just translates into marginal differences in quality of insurance and pricing for comprative plans.

>>15017338
>I can barely put into words how much I hate the Democrat party.
Not just them, but the RINOs also, and anyone still stupid enough to vote for leftists/socialists/nazis.

>>15017557
Well you know the old saying. Traitors are always worse than enemies.

>>15017557
Agreed

>>15017414
>deflecting his requests to use a search engine for him

Every attempt just digs your grave deeper.

>>15017499
The sad part is how many people see this and conclude the solution is more government

>>15016793
The ideal was simple. A healthy human being.
The pursuit of that ideal is what needs to be implemented.

>>15016911
So Chile is the bestest numba wan?

>>15018415
In a way, arguably Spain and Japan are part of the same "optimal" livespan/spending curve.

>>15016793
https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive

>>15017056
Debunked quote

>>15017036
Because apparently Greece lowered its healthcare spending, probably during its debt crisis.

>>15018895
What do you mean debunked? This was all confirmed by one of his aides.

>>15016793
Here's 5 steps to fixing modern medicine:

1 - Doctors, especially doctors outside of hospitals, should be evaluated periodically on their performance with follow ups on their patients. If a given number of patients is not cured/worsens they should be fired.

2 - If a patient has a significantly worse outcome because of something a doctor did, the doctor should suffer the same fate. For instance, the doctors that ruined people's lives by giving them cyprofloxacin should be medically amputated/forced to live as paraplegics as well. They should feel that there is a serious pressure into making good decisions for the patient. Your patient lost a leg when that wasn't necessary, you lose your leg. No excuses. Just take better care of your patients.

3 - Doctors should NEVER, under any circumstance, get paid or given ANYTHING by any pharmaceutical company, in hospitals or conferences or whatever. There should be constant probes to check for this and doctors who accept this kind of 'legalized' bribery should be jailed.

4 - Doctor schools should be probed for nepotism and favoring rich kids over actually skillful people.

5 - All of the above should be 10 times more strict if you're a surgeon of any kind.

>>15018968
He means he doesn't want it to be true, so he just tells himself that LBJ's aides conspired to tell lies about him. This lets him avoid thinking about how vile and duplicitous his worldview is

>>15018999
>anonymous source familiar with the situation says so

Flexner report and the Jesuit assets taking over control

>>15016793
I'd educate people so they teach their own diseases. But before that happens, ai will take the function of medical specialists (I read that ai already does diagnostics better than any qualified meatbag)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrlXPd8wFv8

>>15017707
>Well you know the old saying. Traitors are always worse than enemies.
That's for sure. People really don't like the Democrats/leftists anymore, who are only clinging to power via massive voter fraud, but everyone absolutely HATES the traitorous RINOS.

>>15018986
>All of the above should be 10 times more strict if you're a surgeon of any kind.
Surgeons have the best tract record of all doctors these days.
They have the higest IQs, are almost all conservatives, and have nothing to do with big pharma bribes since they don't prescribe drugs.