/sci/ - Science & Math

GR-COP42 Will save us all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chDMW27iYoU

>>15001125
Guyz, I don't think this whole "return to the moon" thing is gonna work.
Sure there were a few articles when SLS launched but it's been mediatic radio silence since then.

Props to NASA for for embedding 5 fps 360p cameras on their spacecraft.

>>15001125
Shit thread

SSTOs are great

>>15000674
Jarvis lives
https://www.nasa.gov/saa/domestic/36958_SAA2-403403_Annex_8_FullyExecuted.pdf
https://blueorigin.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/BlueOrigin/details/Jarvis-Senior-Technical-Project-Manager_R27127-1

>>15001125
Apart from satellites and telescopes and the ISS, space is gonna be gay as hell until we get that FTL. What's even the point of sending shit to Neptune or whatever to have a look or some shit. Put that cash into that FTL. Once we've got that FTL, no boundaries. Should be all hands on deck for that FTL, we've got enough telescopes and shit already

Reminder the only worthwhile SSTO are VTVL RD-701-powered reusable big dumb boosters (capsule or lifting body, you choose)

Fusion powered ssto

Windjammer

/sci/ plays in the cup today after /vr/-/c/ >>15001267
The team made it though the round of 16 and is now onto the semifinals, Wernher von Braun and Elon Musk are still on the roster.

compatriot spotted

So this core will basically get 2 chances at trying to be useful

>>15001125
Planes will beat rockets soon

Hullo's latest video is kino.

>>15001488
About the manual mars map? Not only has he talked about this before but this is pretty standard space flight trivia
Manlet is getting lazy

>>15001125
Garbage OP image and topic when this is happening right now, shame

China is catching up

>>15001406
>Fusion powered ssto
Based

>>15001495
good. maybe they'll scare the US into catching up

>>15001502
I meant going faster but whatever

Radian One SSTO space plane - in development from Radian Aerospace

It is launched on a skate than goes to orbit

Will they survive? It’s another well funded startup

>>15001516
quit shilling this year old project for retards

>>15001516
Retard

>>15001516

What's their lifting capacity?

Anyone saw these recently declassified Pre-Energia Big Glushko Rockets?

>>15001530

>>15001535
glushko's moon dreams shackled down by the evil spaceplane...

Wen starship LC 39

Reminder that the only viable spaceplane design is the Black Horse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Horse_(rocket)
http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/im/magnus/bh/black-horse.html
not strictly ssto but nothing gets thrown away

>>15001502
>good. maybe they'll scare the US into catching up
>>15001508
>I meant going faster but whatever
I think you were good the first time. The rest of the Western space industry is still quietly ignoring full reuse. I can understand wanting to avoid the Osborne Effect but they've been doing this for the better part of a decade now.

>spaceplanes
no. we already solved SSTO

>>15001545
just put the far right option on top of a reusable first stage

Early US rockets were so goofy

>>15001548
nope its TSTO, three stages if you include the station where you move cargo from one vehicle to the other

Was mach 3.2 too high a goal for the American SST Program?

Should they have gone for a more modest mach 2-2.5?

>>15001558
>who you callin' pinhead

>>15001556
Anything that can't reach the orbit on its own is caveman tech.

>>15001538
I don't think he would have been able to build anything like the Energia if the soviets didn't think the shuttle was a weapons platform. Korolev's N1 barely got funded, and there was actual backing to go to the moon for that.

lol any launch of Starship from florida is going to throw a bunch to shit on the SLS pad

>>15001569
plainly evident autistic obsession and child-like clinging to naive (nonphysical) ideals and magical thinking

>>15001572
Ironically the Shuttle was gimped by the military's requirements to cater to a satellite ferrying business instead of a weapons' platform

>>15001539
I know they chose to build it at the same pad for efficiency, but I would love to see a Starship tower on its own raised pad.

Why do they have no significant space program?

>>15001572
Still absurd the Politburo unironically believed the shuttle was going to be used as a space bomber kek

>>15001599
I mean it could have been used as a space bomber if they cared enough to do so.

>>15001595
You can't have a government led space program and an NHS. Also, their private industry has been shifting more and more into services, rather than industry.

>>15001595
US and EU provide everything they need and they never bothered to develop ICBMs.

>>15001599
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mstislav_Keldysh

It actually was this mathematician who convinced Brezhnev that it could be used as a bomber, the deployment of the shuttle in vandenberg was proof enough for them they were targeting some decapitation strike in moscow.

>>15001566
The engineering wasn't the problem, it was the sonic booms over populated areas. The SST was started before the Concorde got restricted to ocean flights only.

CALLING ALL SPACE SEX ENTHUSIASTS
https://schedule.sxsw.com/2023/events/PP128918
https://twitter.com/AlexLayendecker/status/1594377850823626752

>>15001619
Sonic booms weren't the problem, it was the whiny EARTHERS those areas were populated with.

>>15001595
No tea on mars

>>15001572

The Shuttle’s real secret purpose was to yoink Soviet satellites out of orbit.

>>15001572
Sad, Vulkan would have been cool too.

>>15001530
Got the link?

>>15001632
Ugh strap me to Energia and fire me to orbit

>>15001632
We weren’t ready for the 3heprnr rocket

>>15001595
Timing had a lot to do with it. After the failures of the Europa rockets the UK pulled out of an early European launch organization, had it succeeded the UK could have been in France's position now. At the time when the UK space program was just blooming with Black Arrow the Conservatives were in power. They strongly believed the government should do as little as possible, even if other governments were shoveling piles of money into public/private partnerships. They, and future governments, were also less gung ho about protectionism, unlike France or the US. They weren't going to pay for an industry themselves by military pork. Black Arrow was a success but was much more expensive and less sophisticated than the US launchers. The short term conservative thinking said that they should follow market forces, even if the market wasn't particularly free and even if it meant money leaving the country permanently. To make matters worse the US promised to fly UK government payloads free, until Black Arrow was cancelled. From then on the UK focused on payloads, it didn't require a single agency because it was done by many facilities, commercial and public. But that lack of structure meant that the UK was typically a partner in these missions, rather than a leader. It also meant there was nobody to lobby for more, the money just flowed through the regular funding agencies. The UK Space Agency is just a glorified funding agency that the Conservatives made to put a flag on, but really that horse is long gone. Now they have given a very British company (Lockheed Martin) a bunch of money to build two concrete pads in the Highlands of Scotland, which will probably be used once and abandoned. They are now pulling their weight within ESA, particularly in terms of science.

Kek is this supposed to be some “von braun is le bad” shit?

>>15001643
I'll strap you to the RD-270M UD-900, you either go to the moon on top of a 100 GW green exhaust, or you die surrounded by enough Pentaborane to kill a billion people.

>>15001668
Probably.

>>15001668
>Indiana Jones
Well, what do you think?

>>15001668
They’re trying to defame my boy :(

>>15001673
the universal rocket is equally as kino

The weather at Starbase has been shit for like a week straight.

>>15001711
Expect snow storm next week.

>>15001625

Fun fact: the US ban on overland supersonic flight expired in 2016.

>>15001357
>>15001357
Nice Gallente Shuttle

>>15001639
Bidensisters...

The Moon's apparent motion is now starting to become visible on the Artemis tracker.

Fresh MarsGuy kino

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl0vgdmHZmg

why does the ring flare up in flames when ejected?
is it excess heat the thrusters hitting it?

>>15001791
Those are pyros firing to forcibly detach the ring.

>>15001791
the rocket exhaust is hitting them. As for why the rocket exhaust is only visible idk, good question

>>15001530
>>15001538
I'm more mad he scrapped the N1 out of spite, and then spent 13 years extra building Energia-Buran

>>15001791
>>15001801
Rocket exhaust impacts the metal, superheated H2O starts stripping the exterior layers of paint, causing it to glow when heated by the exhaust

>>15001808
...just to see it get canceled after two flights.
Being a spaceflight fan in Russia must be depressing.

>>15001808
Energia-Buran was objectively superior to the N1 in every single way, not least of which being it actually worked. Hell, with the RD-0120 being cheaper than RS-25Es and RD-170 based LRBs it's better than SLS Block 2 on everything but the upper stage / TLI performance.

>>15001822
>Being a spaceflight fan must be depressing
fixed

>>15001808
What do you even do with the N1? It may get more reliable between intensive and slower testing and the upgraded nk-33 that was being developped in the early 70s (requiring less engines) but what payload do you actually have for it?

It would have been better To use the shit load of nk-33 they were building (they had over a hundred in spare by the last N1 launch) and put them on the zenit (yes the zenit predates Energia and yes NK-33 was considered as the RD-171 was facing development delays)

>>15001823
Correct me if I’m wrong but Yenisei is the same concept in theory but is absolutely dwarfed by Energia still, right?

>>15001834
Yes, like everything else Russia does it's a scaled down half assed version of something the USSR did.

>>15001825
Yes

>>15001840
It feels like we’re not really going to the Moon

>>15001844
Well the other half of Artemis 3 that's missing is the lander, so SpaceX needs to hurry up.

>>15001825
Not really.

>>15001844
is there moon in Europe???

>>15001668
literally me

>>15001840
please don't tell me they made more orders than for these first four

>>15001867
kek

>>15001605
>france
>italy

space flight? No, I'm a fighter not a fugitive

>>15001822
>Being in Russia must be depressing
Russians can never catch a break. I feel bad for the average citizens who keep getting horrible governments.

>>15001875
Crossposting to /pol/ was a mistake

the sfg o'neill cylinder is gonna be great bros

>>15001887
especially when we move it to polar Venus orbit and start charging earthers for gravity assist access

>>15001833
As envisioned in the early 60s, the N1 would have been an all purpose rocket which in different configurations, would serve to building space stations, moon-base, Mars flyby/landing. Also once you have a rocket like that, you can lift bigger payloads into orbit. But fundamentally, anything good that came out of the USSR was screwed over by the existence of CPSU.

>>15001823
plus N1 was almost a dead end in term of architecture.

Whose government do I need to psyop to get a manned venus flyby, damn.

>>15001901
America doesn’t have a stone cold enemy anymore so they’re only focused on a jobs program disguised as a moon landing. China would be willing to do it

>>15001901
Zambia

>>15001909
>Nkoloso stated that the goals of the program were to establish a Christian ministry to "primitive" Martians and the hope of Zambia becoming the "controllers of the seventh heaven of interstellar space

Amazing

>>15001906
First manned interplanetary flight would be quite a coup for them but they're 7-10 years off being ready for that

>>15001906
I could see the US doing it as a test for manned Mars missions

>>15001930
Just fucking do it with Gateway plus a shielded inflatahab and a cameras-and-radars package.
>unmanned Starship boosts it out on trajectory
>SEP for midcourse corrections
>returns to NRHO
>Earth return via Starship

>>15001930
the weird thing about the lunar starship is that, with the sorts of propellant loads it would need to land, it could probably be used for an interplanetary flyby of some sort. And it's big enough to house astronauts for that long, too. They'd just need to do something clever with water and food storage to shield the living quarters.

>>14997680
>I think the record burn time for any RDE is around 2 minutes or something like that
Why is it so short?

>>15001949
It's a continuous explosion contained inside metal.

>>15001944
would maxar’s PPE have enough energy to handle this? A starship boost would certainly help out a ton.
Also would it even be structurally stable enough to handle a starship boost?

>>15001924
Unironically more ambitious than Europe.

>>15001956
It's more ambitious than literally everybody else lmao. Easy with the obsession.

>>15001952
I know, but why is it difficult to sustain it?

>>15001955
>would maxar’s PPE have enough energy to handle this?
If it was refilled with propellant in NRHO by an EVA, yeah. It has to crawl itself all the way there from LEO on its own power.

..so, I'm just gonna address the elephant in the room. When are gonna see the first transwoman in space?

>>15001966
Fill a whoopee cushion with red jello and step on it. That's what happens to troons on ascent because their gash is literally an open wound.

>>15001966

>>15001966
if you get a troon in space he wont be able to rope himself

>15001967
violent thoughts will never make a woman love you, y'know

>>15001973
> troon
> utterly retarded
many such cases

no, they should use lunar (vacuum) starship to do interplanetary flyby missions, I'm sure of it now.

>>15001983
They will ;)

Starship launch license status?

>>15001986
2 weeks after the static fire

>>15001977
how will you feel when a transwoman refutes your bible-based flat earth model with a duckface selfie LOL

>>15001987
Static fire status?

>>15001986
Indefinitely delayed

>>15001989
Maybe next week

>>15001966
I wish buzz was based enough to do some trolling and say “I identify as a woman, I need to be validated” just to fuck up the whole first woman on the moon thing

>>15002017
or the Apache Helicopter thing

>>15002017
I regret to inform the thread this is cringe and I wish I never posted it lmao
I’m not the same person I was 5 seconds ago

>troon
>posts anime
Divine comedy is written by no man, it writes itself

Look at the scale..

>>15002092
Those are some big towers
>>15002062
Today I will remind them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkdkGV1a0Dw

>2 out of three threads on the front page are frog threads
>unironic gender studies general on page 1
>unironic antivaxx thread with +100 replies
>last week 300+ reply thread about 9/11 truth
when did it all go so bad, bros?

>>15002092
Why do the Russians love strutted stages so much?

>>15002102
Warm division

>>15002098
Shut the fuck up dork
>>15002092
She had a dumpster truck ass, but she tapered off too quickly and the real business end (upper stages) were garbage.
Needing to do an EVA only to have a tiny cuck lander is stupid. Korolev deserved the gulag, to some degree at least

>>15002105
She could have been improved

>>15002112
This should have just been one giant ass kerolox booster stage

>>15002112
Ahh I love the USSR, looking at 100 tons of fluorine and thinking it's a good propellant

>>15002098
You have to go back

What could've been..

awaiting full quality...

>>15001823
>Energia-Buran was objectively superior to the N1 in every single way
Number of engines.
N-1 had almost as many engines as SH, truly ahead of its time.

>>15002146
and for decades oldspace used N1 as an example of why clustered engines are impractical. god i hate it so much

so.. what is artemis actually supposed to do? just seems the mission is to launch like 4 cubesats. what's the big ruckus about?

>>15002153
Well the US pretty much just had the giant ass F1, and legacy aerojet/rocketdyne engines that don’t do well with clustering.
I’m not sure if you could cluster the RD-series engines but they would be kino. Personally I love the idea of a new kerolox core for SLS that’s just a bunch to clustered AR1s

>>15002122
>Korolev goes all-kerolox because he detests dangerous hypergolic propellants
>lol lets just have a pair of giant ass upper stages filled with fluorine

>>15002146
Honestly, the N1 biggest problem was that it was next to impossible to farm out to various design bureaus. The R7 and Proton could have all of their parts built wherever the politburo decided to award them, which was important for all the usual SLS reasons. Everything except the very top of the N1 had to be built on site because it was just too fat for rail transport.

>>15002157
that would just be a new rocket. You probably wouldn't even need srbs for that.

I need your guys' take on this. It's a well-known fact that Natsoc Germany was the technologically most advanced nation at the time. And I've heard about rumors that US scientists actually needed decades to figure out the high-tech and reverse-engineer it. So my question is: How far did they Nazis actually advance this stuff. Did they make it to space? If so, could it potentially be that Hitler escaped to a space station using this unheard of technology?

>>15002169
Yes exactly my point

>>15002174
so they should just retire the sls, otherwise they'll somehow find a way to keep the orange tank while spending 10b adapting it for kerolox

>>15002172

>>15002157
Just use clustered M1s. Works in ksp ro

>>15002172
>Did they make it to space?
V2 made it out of the karman line as indicated by von Braun's teams telemetry at pedemunde but not much past that
Sorry, there's no way he could've made out with german tech. Antarctia is your best bet

>>15002172
We’re not helping you write the indiana jones 5 script, butterworth

>>15002128
The Moon is egg shaped?

>>15002172
>could it potentially be that Hitler escaped to a space station
Yes, he went off to live a peaceful life at the Space Colony ARK.
>>15002183
I simply love that pic.

>>15002190
That's no Moon.

the first interstellar journeys will be conducted with orion.

So, realistically, if the USSR was able to get N1 working in the mid 70’s, what could we have expected?

>>15002189
Too many spherical tanks, less dry mass and more propellant would make it better

>>15002197
N1 space station? the USSR was doing major damage control at that point by claiming they had been focusing on stations all along. Maybe they would have made venus flybys like the original N1 was planned for.

>>15002197
An Apollo-soyuz style meetup would have been done a bit earlier, on the lunar surface… but both would have cancelled their respective programs pretty much immediately lol
Nothing ever happens

I love Leonov so much it’s unreal. I miss him every day

>>15002172
>Did they make it to space? If so, could it potentially be that Hitler escaped to a space station using this unheard of technology
Yes, they are regrouping in what jüdische astronomie calls the Milky Way

>>15002190
It's a megastructure for a former advanced human civilization that lost the war with an AI it created that went rogue.

>>15002172
>It's a well-known fact that Natsoc Germany was the technologically most advanced nation at the time.

>>15002206
same

>>15002203
>>15002201
Honestly hindsight is 20/20 but it’s interesting that the shuttle program was about $6 billion per year, while a full Saturn V lunar mission was about $1.5 billion per year.
NASA could’ve been flying 3-4 Saturn V’s per year for 40 years, damnit!

>>15002197
If STS still goes ahead, the only chance the N1 continues to fly (beyond the 2 finished and 1 unfinished N1 that were lying around, these would be launched anyway) is if it becomes the launcher of the Soviet Answer to the Shuttle, probably would result in a very different, vertically stacked Buran. All because the Politburo would still get paranoia over the shuttle.

If STS doesn't go ahead and the USA continues using Apollo-derived launch vehicles, then that's where there could be fun stuff with N1.

Most of the big soviet military program were reactive and founded in fear of the west.

>>15002215
HAHAHAHA lol

>>15002172
>I need your guys' take on this. It's a well-known fact that Natsoc Germany was the technologically most advanced nation at the time. And I've heard about rumors that US scientists actually needed decades to figure out the high-tech and reverse-engineer it. So my question is: How far did they Nazis actually advance this stuff. Did they make it to space? If so, could it potentially be that Hitler escaped to a space station using this unheard of technology?

>>15002222

>>15002218
we must talk about this once a year, and yes. that's true. but we could have followed the sts launch cadence with shuttle based heavy lifters too and gotten roughly the same thing accomplished, it's less about the booster hardware imo and more about the giant (mostly) useless orbiter
(I still like the orbiter though)

>>15002229
Update the image archive benchod bastard NASA. I’ve already seen new stuff on twitter that isn’t anywhere else
This one is the most recent

>>15002235
I meant we talk about this once a thread haha

>>15002240
kek I wouldn’t want it any other way

You now remember the birth of commercial space

>>15002242
no, it really is one of the most fruitful topics to be discussed concerning historical spaceflight since it still affects our big orange friend now.

>>15002172
No, not possible. Even in the High Jump scenario of an Antarctic breakaway, with aerial flying saucers, the US and Russians have spent too much time surveilling all space between Earth and the moon for Third Reich space assets to go unseen. We've thoroughly mapped the lunar surface and there are no bases on the surface save Apollo landing sites.

There are several heterodox physics hypotheses for enabling propellantless space flight that bear resemblance to the alleged operating mechanism of the Haunebu saucer's main drive, but the Haunebu itself would have needed external air to run motors to spin the mercury torus and thus was not space capable. Electric propulsion dense enough to perform orbital lift requires either laser power beaming or an onboard nuclear reactor, neither of which existed in Germany in 1945.

t. resident alt-physics nerd

In 1962, the USSR was taking bids for their upcoming heavy-lift, 20 ton to LEO, launcher.
The three teams that bid included Glushko’s Proton rocket, which of course ended up winning, alongside Yangel’s proposal, which sucked so bad we don’t even have to talk about it.
Korolev bid the N11, which consisted of the N1 rocket minus the big first stage. The second stage of the N1 would be converted into using the NK-15’s then planned for its first stage.
The N11 would’ve allowed further testing and proving of the NK-15 ahead of N1 flights, as well as validation for some of the plumbing and upper stage reliability.
I am not sure if this would’ve meant N1 would’ve been a success right off the bat, and I doubt it would’ve meant so far as the USSR beating America to the moon, but the N11 probably would’ve allowed for a Soviet lunar landing by ensuring a sooner successful N1 launch.
Of course; Korolev’s N11 would lose the design competition to Glushko’s Proton, and the rest is history.

>>15002246
>soul

>>15002246

>>15002235
>>15002242
>>15002240
Someone posted a research paper which found that NASA had the option of flying 3 Saturn V’s and 3 Saturn IB’s per year for the same cost as the shuttle.
Of course none of it matters. NASA was hell bent on using the shuttle and they showed congress that it could fly 50 times per year and build lunar bases and bring back JFK from the grave and whatnot. The shuttle is their fault.
It’s still a beautiful machine though

>>15002258
it's still 135 flights of what are essentially super heavy, almost saturn-v class launchers over the course of the program. If it weren't gimped by the orbiter it would be quite good.

>>15002258
Yeah I don’t disagree. The orbiter is absolutely cool. But the Saturn family was simply more capable, and cheaper. Literally the best family of rockets ever flown, right above the Falcon family

>>15002249
What if they're IN the moon?

>>15002268
SLS block 2 will finally surpass it for raw throw weight to LEO... several years after Starship does.

>>15002270
They'd still need a visible landing site.

>>15002246
What would’ve happened if commercial spaceflight took off in the 80’s or 90’s instead of today?

>>15002265
to add on to your point, they really did pump them out too. The orbiter was reusable so that helped: but they built so many tanks and SRBs on such short notice
I’ve said this a lot (we talk about this all the time) but even with 2 sets of complete groundings because of challenger and columbia, STS still averaged 4 flights per year over the course of its lifetime.

do we like susie here

>>15002273
What if they hid their tracks?

>>15002271
I never understood how. SLS block IB can do 105 Tons to LEO, but SLS block II does 130? How? I know they change out the boosters but still

>>15002277
Not possible to an extent we'd miss. Sensor resolution is just a bit better than 80 years ago.

>>15002282
Maybe they flew straight into the lava tubes, hiding even their landing site under the surface.

>>15002279
I think they were counting on some crazy new boosters, though those haven't been talked about for years at this point. There was one (let's be real you probably know already) which called for liquid boosters powered by f-1s which would have increased LEO throw weight to 150 tons.

>>15002279
The new boosters accelerate faster so there's less gravity loss and the core stage doesn't have atmospheric perigee on burnout.

>>15002278
Le Vapeurware

were we the real aliens all along?

>>15002276
>>15002265
It seems like reusing the engines and solid boosters still allowed up to 9 flights per year (1985). I sometimes wonder if side-mounted Shuttle-C was the true best path, after all.
Sure it’s not “perfect” but I think 9 launches of a 70 ton to LEO rocket per year is very nice

>>15002275
It would have died. Back in the 1990s commercial payloads were still obsessed with getting to geostationary orbit, and that's a lot harder of a place to reach than the sun-synchronous LEO orbits that modern newspace is always aiming for.

>>15002293
We are the aliens.

>>15002265
Shuttle-C should have been pursued and then, when everybody admitted the Orbiter was too dangerous for crews, NASA could have whipped up a Hermes type spaceplane for manned orbital ops

>>15002297
Eh, it could have taken off in the 90s on the back of the various LEO constellation projects. Of course this died with the dot com bubble burst.

>>15002300
>Shuttle-C with a smaller crewed vehicle
Kino

just checked the chandra launch stats and it compares quite favorably to the saturn v's 140 tons. Add a second stage and you're probably doing better than saturn, ignoring all the thrust and engineering problems that entails

>>15002294
>basic STS
>65,000 lbs
really? or is that one of the "technically you can launch that to a sub 200km orbit"

>>15002304
That's overkill, you'd put it on top of a Titan stack

>>15002310
The real number is 27 tons/60,000 lbs. Shuttle-C with no upper stage is about 60 tons to LEO with the “normal” boosters and 70 tons to LEO with the 5-segment boosters.

>>15002314
Redpill me on titan. Everyone has told me it’s way too expensive but wasn’t every rocket expensive back in the 70s-80s?

>>15002238
>>15002229

>>15002316
was the shuttle restricted by downmass? Landing a shuttle with 60,000 lbs of payload after a late abort would be somthing.

>>15002317
Titan III was basically the most expensive possible rocket. You had giant SRBs AND hypergolic hazops AND LH2 on the same pad.

>>15002317
Yeah every rocket was pretty bad. ULA is actually very cheap compared to the 80’s and 90’s. The Delta II, which could do 2 tons to GTO, was $90 million in today’s dollars.
The Commercial Titan III was $240 Million for 4 tons to GTO in today’s money.
The Titan IV, which could do 20 tons to LEO, was over $750 Million(!!!!!) in today’s money. Even the Delta IV heavy is “only” $350-$450 million

>>15002317
It was good back in the day because of economy of scale. While we were burying Titan II ICBMs by the dozen out in the Dakotas it was reasonably cheap. Once we switched over to the Minuteman and Peacekeeper the costs got unreasonable really quick. Overall, it was a reliable rocket but it was still a bitch to work with because of all of that hydrazine. We wanted to get away from it for the same reasons Europe wanted to get away from the Ariane 4.

>>15002323
Yeah it was actually. The shuttle was unable to perform a RTLS abort with a very heavy payload, which is why Shuttle-Centaur was cancelled. Wild stuff.

>>15002320
SO THAT'S HOW THEY DO IT

>>15002224
At least one of Orions windows got Apollo 12'd probably at LAS jettison

Top right

>>15002330
>the case of an aborted mission, a failure of the Space Shuttle systems to put them into orbit. In that case, the crew would dump the Centaur's propellant and attempt to land. This was an extremely dangerous maneuver, but also an extremely unlikely contingency (in fact, one that would never occur in the life of the Space Shuttle program).[86] In such an emergency, all the propellant could be drained through valves on both sides of the Space Shuttle's fuselage in 250 seconds, but their proximity to the main engines and the Orbital Maneuvering System was a concern for the astronauts, who feared fuel leaks and explosions. The Space Shuttle orbiter would then have to land with Centaur still on board, and its center of gravity would be further aft than on any previous mission

Absolute madness kek

>>15002340
That’s some goofy shit

>>15001822
>Being a spaceflight fan in Russia must be depressing.
They solo carried global spaceflight for over a decade.

>>15002344
>Oh boy, it's 2AM, time to watch 1867th Soyuz launch!

>>15002344
>>Being a spaceflight fan must be depressing.
ftfy

>>15002317
It's funny to see that Titan-III acted as the devils advocate for the Shuttle in the 70s. Yes it was expensive as fuck, but it had the highest payload at the time and was already flying. NASA had to do all sorts of mental gymnastics with Shuttle costings to make it look better on paper

>>15002293
We are the only life in existence.

>>15002353
kek

>>15002353
weren't they trying to sell reusability?
NASA was simply ahead of it's time

>>15002353
It’s telling that NASA decided, if they were to fly Apollo CSM’s in the future, it would be on Titan instead of Saturn IB.

>>15002365
They had a nice idea but did probably did it in one of the most retarded ways.

>Targeting Monday, November 21 at 9:57 p.m. ET for a Falcon 9 launch of the Eutelsat 10B mission from SLC-40 in Florida

>>15001771
Thanks anon

>>15002366
At least they tried it with gemini. Ugh what could have been

>>15002372
I’m gonna be honest, I’m always worried we’ll see a Falcon 9 fail one day. I still hold my breath during Starlink launches.

>>15002377
Seriously? I don’t. I guess I do during older booster landings but even then it’s not a big deal. SpaceX barely scrubs, but they still do occasionally. This gives me the feeling they have sensors absolutely everywhere and if they feel it isn’t good to go (especially with astronauts or commercial payloads) they know what they’re doing. F9 is up there with soyuz as the most reliable rocket ever built

>>15002372
>4AM here
fuck

>>15001133
>>15001844
Space scientists and enthusiasts are completely out of touch with how the common person cares about space.
People want something they can relate to, and something flashy. That's why Apollo 11 is so remembered, and people only cared in the same way for Apollo 13 because it went to shit. Anything else was just boring rock collecting, even if the latter Apollo missions are much more interesting.
Anons here hate when agencies anthropomorphise rovers, but it works very well for the outreach. Look at how much cherished Opportunity is. People love their R2D2s and Wall-Es.
Scientists are also fucking ass shats. Remember how Juno almost didn't get Junocam? I swear, those nerds would send a probe to a planet with alien life and not put a fucking camera because the radiation measurement instrument is so much more important for them. The shit camera coverage Artemis 1 got is another example of how they can't understand what catches people's attention.
Also, I'm so fucking tired of the "we all look up at the sky and wonder if we are alone" cliche. That's not fucking true. One section of people are certain aliens exist because they saw some conspiracy about lights in the sky. Another section of people are certain they don't exist because it contradicts their religious beliefs. And the other major section doesn't give a damn because they have more immediate needs and simple pleasures to care about.

>>15002365
Titan was STILL cheaper than a reusable Shuttle, primarily because of the dev cost of everything.

>>15001961
engine go boom

>>15002399
>no stars
Sloppy job.

>>15002403
errytime

>>15002399
The AJ-10 first flew in 1946 lol. Wild that it’s history brings it here.

>>15002409
>1946

>>15002411
I’m srs

>>15002424
Longer!

>>15001901
>manned venus flyby
why do autists want this stupid shit

>>15002424
Fucking Kerbal-ass shit

>>15002424
> even more area for foam strikes
no thanks!

>>15002424
>>15002439
looks better

>>15002377
Meh if it happens it happens, They survived CRS-7 and Amos Fine. Let’s hope we get good pictures of it too

>>15002424
They should have replaced the external tank with a few more SRBs

>>15002424
squish it

>>15002330
I actually looked and the venting with shuttle-centaur was for propellant safety reason and not mass reason.
Also since it was supposed to be able to vent in all abort scenario, and since the earliest RTLS aborts did not have 250 seconds outside of tbe atmosphere, that means it would have been able to vent The centaur’s fuel during the glide

Alright Saturn V is never cancelled. How do you improve it?
>Hard mode: don’t mention F-1B

>>15002473
Winged first stage; evolve it into a fully reusable TSTO vehicle by the mid 80’s.

>>15002473
F-1A and then F-1C

>>15002473
Orion. (The cool one)

>>15002480
Does an external tank improve throw mass by much? I take it abort is already off the table anyways

Now that SLS has flown, can we finally get an orbital Starship test now???

>>15002485
fucking pipe dream shit

>>15002492
We’re talking about keeping the senate space plane off the table, we’re already in fantasy territory

based cody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c_4ilhM0wc

>>15002491
Elon has to be careful or else SpaceX is gonna be dismantled.

I don’t want to start shitflinging or anything but can SpaceX survive without Elon?

>>15002492
For you

>>15002490
Be careful of the slippery slope, anon. First thing you're putting your hydrogen in an expendable tank, next you're slide slinging the payload.

>>15002498
at that point just ban all the government accounts and start posting about how 2020 was stolen

>>15002490
The point is to throw away nothing mate

>>15002485

>>15002503
SpaceX without Elon would still be successful, but that success would be comparable to the most other rocket startups right now, Launching Falcon 1 a few times a year, and releasing animations of Falcon 9 saying it'll come in 2025.

>>15002503
SpaceX survives but is never going to Mars without Elon. He is unironically requured for that.

>>15002511
Oh fugg good point

>>15002514
>SpaceX without Elon would still be successful
Blue Origin deboonks that.

It’s kind of funny seeing RocketLab shill MUH DEDICATED ORBITS!!!! For years then suddenly switch to a medium sized launcher

Tomorrow ABL proves it's that easy in rocketry.

>>15002534
It's mostly because two-thirds of the yearly smallsat payloads are flying on SpaceX rideshare missions. SpaceX inspired all of these companies but then it went and sucked up all of the customers they might have had. It's not a bad move since Neutron's current design is looking to be an overall improvement on the Falcon 9.

>>15002534
Does anyone even need dedicated orbits? Everyone just goes to SSO anyway.

>>15002534
They're all doing it. Astra built a uselessly small rocket and then later said "whoops turns out those so-called smallsats aren't that small", though they still carry on that launching megaconstellations piecemeal is the way to go. Relativity argued that there aren't nearly enough smallsat launchers, and now has all but relegated Terran 1 to a testbed.

>>15002534
I’m not trying to shill for RL myself, but I think an 8T reusable craft still gives them this selling point

>>15002538
Expect it to fail. Most new launchers have one or two failed flights before success. Good luck though

>>15002545
You never know which way the market goes but from what I’ve seen, New Tron and Hard R have the best chance for getting a sizeable chunk of the future market. Firefly might survive off of selling engines (idk if they’re doing the core stage for Antares but that will only add insurance)
Virgin orbit will still exist because branson seems too bullheaded to do anything but throw money at it
BO will lock up enough gay ass contracts from space force to do seething with a new glenn launch once every year. Jarvis will be non competitive. A hypothetical their stage might make the stupid rocket useful though

>>15002549
I think it goes without saying but just for clarification this post omitted SS and Vulcan who will have plenty of work

>>15002503
Most probably, yes. And I'm talking only about "surviving". Now, getting to Mars as fast as possible and in a way that eventually will make us a truly space-faring civilization? Risky bet.

>>15002525
Jeff Bezos definitely gave Blue Origin a disadvantage. That kind of funding with a better plan than sub-orbital carnival rides would put the company where Rocket Lab is right now with someone more competent.

Awesome views of the HS-17 launch. When will we get a falcon 9 top down drone shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTp-Dl5GTiQ

>>15002559
Damn that was actually pretty cool, and the guy punching the launch button with the fucking echo effect was funny.

>>15002555
not even, he would be way above rocket lab. An expendable F9-sized rocket would do wonders

>>15002559
Never, why would you want to add a colision hazard?

>>15002576
NTA but a falcon would fucking obliterate anything above or in its wake with minimal damage

>>15002549
Firefly is going to end up getting eaten by Northrop Grumman. The soap opera twists they've been through over the last few years all start to glow real hard when you look at them lined up end to end.

This was the game changer of the decade so far, right?

>>15002576
The top of a rocket meant to push through a supersonic Max Q won't have a problem if it hits one of these

>>15002559
>best korea has drones
huh

>>15002585
>All of those rockets planned for 2019 or 2020
>None of them will fly until 2023
Lol

Wake up bright and early for the moon flyby

>>15002589
Kek was funny to see people surprised at the Ariane 6 delay when everybody who even has heard a bit the rumours knew for months it was going to be NET 2024

>>15002589
Vulcan will fly in 2023
Ariane 6 will fly (probably) in 2024
Not even God knows when New Glenn is finally going to make that yearly lease on LC-36 worth it

>>15002592
I’m honestly surprised. Ariane 6 literally reused tooling, and the main engine, of Ariane 5

>>15002595
I could see New Glenn in 2024. We’ve seen their second stage pathfinder and some hardware for the first stage.

>>15002584
True

>>15002598
NG is currently “Q4 2023,” and their slow ass BE-4 production line is already beholden to Vulcan which is only getting more and more launches lined up
It might unironically be 2026 or later

>>15002598
It all depends on how quickly they can mass produce BE-4s. They've got contractual obligations to provide engines to ULA and those are going to come first. There's five hypothetical Vulcan launches penciled in for 2023, so New Glenn might have to wait for the eleventh engine off the line before it starts building up its set of seven.

>>15002597
That’s what happens when you spend 20 years without developing anything.

Development of Ariane 4 started just after Ariane 2-3 launched, Ariane 5’s was before A4’s maiden launch. Meanwhile A6 was almost 20 years after A5’s

Skills were just lost, people left, my uncle was a ceramic engineer during vulcain engine’s development 30 years ago, between he left soon after the first successful launch and A6’s dev announcement he had the time to go back to university, completely change his domain of work , go to a multinational health implant company where he eventually became a top executive. And I know Several other people like him who worked on A5 and completely left the industry since, let alone retired.

Never ever stop developping and innovating, 20 years of stagnation can and will set you back decades. Much more and you’re back to square one. The same thing happened to my country’s nuclear sector.

Also Arianespace, and also whole other industrial sectors but arianespace has pathological case of denial and lies over deadlines. They’ll keep reasserting impossible ones until they’ve been reached.

Its over

Orion about to reach 200mph - 26,000mph from the moon, simple math says it will not cover the distance in time and will miss the moon

Its so fucking over NASA is finished

>>15002625
I wish I were -24,000mph away from the moon

>>15002497
> alien artifacts might be found at the lunar south pole

every time we talk about BO i am reminded that it’s much more retarded than i remembered it being

>>15002649
I love these 1950s scifi paintings where they just decide to draw the earth without any clouds ever

altitude dropping at about a mile per second now

>>15002649
Every time this shit is hyped it's always a disappointment afterwards.

>>15002625
anon what the fuck are you talking about

>>15002656
Hahah
>>15002649
I’m half way through the video and mars one cody has already drawn lava as a stratified unit and said ice deposits aren’t rocks. I’m being nit picky though lol he’s mentioning great points about the geology that can be done there

>>15002657
They assumed we would realize the dream of /sfg/

>>15002675
It's simple math

IT'S OVER

Caught a thruster firing, its really cool how this mirrors exactly what the actual spacecraft is doing

>>15002657
I love how old anime portrayed the Earth or any space scenery. So kino.

>>15002692
is the Orion in barbecue mode?

>>15002705
Nope, must've been a trajectory burn

>>15002697
From Evangelion

beeg

In all seriousness, do you all think interstellar exploration will begin before the end of the 22nd century?

>>15002723
yes

>>15002725
not with humans aboard though

>>15002727
Nta but of course not

>>15002728
Yeah but I had to clarify. I’m guessing he wants to talk about FTL, which I’m sure you and I agree isn’t going to happen

>>15002692
Do big spacecraft (not satellites) use reaction wheels or did KSP lie to me?

>>15002746
KSP lied so they could let new players orient spacecraft in space without breaking the laws of physics.

>>15002752
Then how did the SLS do its roll off the pad?

>>15002759
Engine gimbal

>>15002723
Yes, but because FTL travel will be developed by the demigods and then exclusively used by them to leave the solar system forever, humans won't follow until they discover the schematics left behind for them on Pluto.

>>15002723
This all depends on whether there is good will for that or not. With good will, the US got to the moon in 10 years, and without good will, the US got stuck on LEO for over 50 years.
If we assume a good scenario, I say we could get a probe to Proxima Centauri during the 2040's or 50's. In a bad scenario, we will only get that in the 2500's.

>>15002723
>end of the 22nd century
imagine making predictions about when starship will go Orbital in 1840. or about the Internet. or heavier than air flight. or nuclear physics.
that's the time difference you're looking at
that said, we'll most likely have achieved synthetic superintelligence by then
frankly that's already very likely by the end of this century let alone the next.
so yes

>>15002723
Technically it already has
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_probe
If you mean missions designed to reach another star system within their lifetimes, I actually do think so. Not manned colony ships or anything, but I can easily see some probes launching within this century and arriving before 2300.

>>15002780
Kek we can’t even predict the first moon landing for artemis hahahaha

>>15002781
>before 2300
I meant 2200. Honestly it's possible it could happen this century too, at least if we develop some viable sails, but I'm not holding my breath.

You know one of these days, whether we know it or not, we will unironically be exactly 2 weeks away from the first starship orbital attempt

>>15002788
I fully expect 4-5 scrubs before it goes

>>15002791
That’s going to be the biggest blue ball of all time

>>15002791
I will an hero if it gets 100 feet up and fucking obliterates the entire launch site

>>15002788
You know one of these days, whether we know it or not, we will unironically find alien life

>>15002797
and we will fuck the females and barbecue the males

How hard is it to do a little wetland survey or whatever it is they’re doing and just give clearance on grounds of SS being too important to say no to? It’s not like the cape was built in a desert void of wildlife. And starship is a part of the artemis program now

>>15002800
first part is cool but why the eating?

>>15002801
I like how berger was following the progress on a week-by-week basis last year but now he’s just given up. What does the federal grounding administration even have left to do at this point

>>15002803
>he doesn't want grilled alien squid

>>15002808
im not a jap

how is the Texas history essay coming along?

>>15002800
My favorite fermi paradox theory is that aliens know about us but are scared shitless of us because they spent thousands of years watching us genocide each other, and then we rapidly industrialized and suddenly started developing technologically at a rate completely incomparable to their own civilizations.

What does /sfg/ thinks of the Carl Sagan Observatory proposal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIgQpXObjFI
(I know anons don't like her but focus on the proposal)

>>15002649
>Tfw ywn be a space archeologist trying to uncover where all the aliens went.
God damn it

>>15002839
never say never anon
it's conceivable we can reach anti aging escape velocity, at which point you could end up on a survey ship in Centauri in the 2200s
stay fit and don't kys yoursel!

>>15002839
I hope irrefutable ayyyy tech is found during an Artemis polar excursion—and I really hope it’s a warning to earthers. We’d get Orion battleships in no time

>>15002850
Oh god why do everybody keep fixating on bullshit like this?
Forget the alien remains or UFO sighting shit and focus on real targets like Oumuamua, Titan and exoplanet observation.

>>15002804
They’re waiting on data from the 33 engine static fire and a full tank WDR

>>15002858
I’m just letting my imagination run wild. Excuse the post. We need a mission to Venus now

>>15002864
What would you suggest as a Venus mission, anon? What features would you want on one?

>>15002866
The leviathan proposal. It’s kino

>>15002864
Wikipedia lists the planned missions Shukrayaan-1, VERITAS, DAVINCI+ and EnVision. (I doubt Venera-D will happen at this point.)
There is also the Rocket Lab mission to be launched next year.

>>15002818
It's too small

>>15002723
Yeah, if you mean something like the laser sail micro spacecraft thingy.

>>15002866
Blimp rover, obviously. Cloud-penetrating surface mapping sensors, redundant weather stations, air particulate analysis instruments including a microscope that can look at droplet samples for potential microbes.
Also a smaller more experimental/risky blimp designed to dive much deeper into the atmosphere, able to traverse a wide altitude range with internal tanks and compressors that allow it to adjust buoyancy.

>>15002818
this chick is so oblivious

>>15002913

>>15002916
would it have killed them to write “UNITED STATES” down the side of the orange tank

>>15002913
Contrast this with fagrocket >>15002916
Saturn V BTFO's every SLS except block 2 cargo (doesn't exist) which it would BTFO as well if the F-1 were a modern high efficiency kerolox engine.

>>15002916
Artemis 1’s launch is kino and I’m tired of pretending it’s not

>>15002925
I was made in collaboration with the ESA so no

>>15002933
Indeed

It’s so weird to think that the first Dragon capsule flew before the final space shuttle flight. They always feel like two separate eras.

>>15002916
>>15002936
This is what 62% of Saturn V looks like and I'm tired of pretending it's more.

>>15002931
Eager has a video on how NASA almost chose the F1 design, and Rocketdyne said they would restart production if contracted to but did not because initial investment cost.

>>15002940
Eh at least it can send 4 people to lunar orbit. It is better than nothing. America, even at its worst, is better than the rest of the world.

>>15002943
It also started development well after BO became a company and still made it to the Moon before they even attempted orbit lol

>>15002945
BO predates the pre-Ares V ESAS CaLV by 4 years lol. Absolutely mental

>>15002947
What the fuck is their game plan. Why is new shittard even operational still???

>>15002950
Is it?

>>15002950
Probably optics. No way in hell it repays it’s development or even launch costs. Of course New Shepard just experienced a launch failure too

https://youtu.be/oWR5tFgJKIQ

L2 has an anti-screenshot measure lol

>>15002957
beyond soi

>>15002958
I got some interesting PDFs and .mov about the ability for Shuttle-C to detach its engine bay and recover the SSMEs. Still figuring out how to post it.

the ‘facts and figures’ section on the new glenn website is absolute cope, lies, and stretched truths lmao

>>15002960
I remember there was some consideration for having a lifting body reentry vehicle with rs-25s for early 2000s heavy lifters. Kind of suspect because they involved a dip in the ocean for those engines.

>>15002965
Lmao

>>15002968
All that comes to mind is… pathetic

Artemis flyby in 3 BONGS
Which stream will you lads be watching?

I hate SLS so much. I wanted the first launch to end in disaster, I wanted that so badly.
I recognize my foolishness now, though. For all its wastefulness, for every bit of an abomination and disgrace that rocket is, the SLS is also the only way that humanity's return to the moon could happen in the modern political climate. The ungainly, lumbering hulk of the SLS program is the weight that must be dragged along until the lunar program has sufficient momentum to be cancel-proof. Every fault with that rocket merely reflects a fault of its time.
Though I may hate you, SLS, I wish you godspeed.

>>15002983
flyby of the earth or moon?

>>15002988
anon...

I’m trying to upload a Webm but there’s sound and it won’t let me

>>15002993
https://vidcoder.net/

>>15002993
ffmpeg -i input.webm -an output.webm

>>15002913
>>15002916
Now let's see Starship's launch

i still feels surreal that we're actually going back to the moon. i envy future generations as they'll be able to visit other worlds in their normal every day lives.

>>15002999
Nobody wants to install your command line shit

>>15003015
then keep crying bitch nigga

>>15003019
I'm not the tard trying to upload sound webms

>>15003015
everyone says that until they start using command line shit. then they never want to go back to graphical UI's.

>>15003026
I used ffmpeg when webm first came to 4chan. Now I only use vidcoder because I don't feel like constantly adjusting shit and copying presets when I can just hit a big button that does everything perfectly every time.

>>15003015
>command line shit
Whoever has the terry davis command line nigger .mp4 should post it right now. This nigger cattle needs to be herded back to NSF discord.

>>15003022
That makes you the tard whose shitting up the thread for no reason

>>15003015
Handbrake is a good alternative

>>15003015
Don't have any basedjacks on my smartphone so just visualise me basedjacking you instead.

>jacks
>jacking

>>15001966
physically unfit and mentally unstable individuals don't qualify for astronaut training, so they'd have to be a token tranny for jewish propaganda rather than making it to space on their own merits
we'll see one within a few years, once they stop having their kippah fly off their head at the sight of the cost of putting a man into orbit

>absorbs tax dollars
>Roooooves
>Discovers literally nothing new
>Will require sample return mission with hundreds of thousands of points-of-failure
Hmm

>>15003077
Heres another thing to add to your list every time some tranime faggot posts the same bait: mtf HRT causes significant osteoperosis, hence why they all have a hunch. That aint good for space travel and or atmospheric re/entry.