/sci/ - Science & Math

>neccisary
yes it is indeed

>>14986734
Kek... Yeah my English is not the best but even as a 2nd language I speak more fluently then the average Brit/American.

>>14986720
how are you going to make sure that the eugenicists aren't retards themselves who breed for sexual attractivity or some dumb aesthetic preference? if you look at dog or cat breeds the most popular ones are those who are most degenerated genetically.

>>14987091
That is a problem but either way humanity is doing a form of eugenics. We have artificially propped up groups via welfare and technology. Doing nothing would be worse since at least the results will be somewhat intended.

>>14986720
Yes.
Now get your vax booster.

>>14986742
This sentence doesn't even make sense you arrogant retard

yes
>>14987091
that's easy, you just do pre-eugenics on the eugenicists to weed out the stupid ones
>ok but what if
an endless chain

>>14987102
if welfare had that effect countries without it should fare better than ones but they do much, much worse actually, maybe there are different factors at play, i wonder what they are

>>14987141
Because shitty countries can't afford welfare. If you let people have kids who are a net negative on taxes see how it will impact things in 2 generations

>>14987164
how exactly is being dependent on welfare a bigger incentive to have kids that e.g. having a stable job

inb4 idiocracy

>>14987198
Have you ever been to trailer parks? In the USA you get a certain amount per kid there is no cap on it either. There was a single mother in NYC who was making 6 figures off welfare alone for 8 kids.

Kids become cheaper on scale so if you get a cash payment per kid it actually incentivizes poor people to have more children.

>>14987202
nice anecdotal evidence faggot but poor != dumb or they wouldn't figure out that child raising costs grow sublinearly

>>14987275
Look at poor families today with a lot of kid. If you live in the USA I 100% guarantee everyone is on welfare. Many of them don't have a single person working.

Also do I really need to find "data" to show the average single mother on welfare is lower IQ? I mean come on... The issue isn't that poor families have lots of kids this was true in the past aswell the issue is the government funds it.

>>14987329
>the issue is the government
t. public policy expert

>>14987329
listen up corn pop!

>>14987335
A large part of these conditions are not merely a byproduct of industrialization and public policy whether or not this is intentional Dysgenics on the part of the government or a byproduct is up for debate.

>>14986742
No you don't, ESL-kun

>>14987344
you mean women being liberated by being forced to work or face the consequences

>>14987375
Well that's part of it yes...

>>14986720
No. People are extremely opposed to Eugenics so it would never be possible to get it legislated.

The thing is that genetics is a product of your environment. If people are being placed in an environment which causes IQ declines, then you dont shoot the messenger (genetics) you resolve the issue and change the environment. So basically what im saying is that whatever you do dont be like America.

>>14986720
if the reich had won the day, then it would have been understood by everyone that eugenics was a good thing, or at any rate no one would have resisted it. since you mention social safety nets i must say i have no objection to them, and i disavow libtard claims that the right wants them gone.

>>14987405
Social safety nets are fantastic if they're made to incentivize the right things. Hungary has a government loan and loan forgiveness program where newlywed ethnic Hungarians can buy a house and pay it off by having children. That's a eugenic and socially responsible public welfare program.

America, on the other hand, finances foreigners to breed and live in squalor.

>>14986720
can smart monkeys breed faster than dumb monkeys?

>>14987375
>women being liberated by being forced to work or face the consequences
Went from "get in that kitchen!" to "get in that office!"
Bitches just thought they were being "liberated" kek!

>>14986720
>necceisary
For you.

>>14986720
>modern comforts of technology and the massive social safety nets
Not the problem. The real problems are browns which on average have lower IQs than Whites and Asiatics.
the covid vax probably didn't help things either

>>14987202
Kids are expensive lol

>>14987395
>No. People are extremely opposed to Eugenics so it would never be possible to get it legislated.
Probably true with overt eugenic policies, most people are very impressionable though, Eugenic policies are regularly snuck into the mainstream via movements like the pro-choice or transgenderism movements.

>The thing is that genetics is a product of your environment. If people are being placed in an environment which causes IQ declines, then you dont shoot the messenger (genetics) you resolve the issue and change the environment.
This is untrue in the sense it is being discussed here. The only case you could argue that environment causes widespread changes in IQ was historically and probably mostly in areas where it was difficult for low IQ people to survive and reproduce/survive at higher rates than higher IQ people, specifically you need a positive selective pressure for high IQ which no longer truly exists in our modern times of abundance.

>>14987198
People one welfare aren’t retarded. If you grow up in the hood and see that the single mothers around you get a bigger check from the government each month you can put 2 and 2 together.

They also are less capable of preventing pregnancy.

Wealthy, smart people on the other hand just focus on their careers and never have kids.

>>14986720
Eugenics will unironically make India a superpower

>>14986720
Relevant:
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/short-history-of-3rd-millennium/

>(1) (a) Direct Technosingularity - 25%, if Kurzweil/MIRI/DeepMind are correct, with a probability peak around 2045, and most likely to be implemented via neural networks (Lin & Tegmark, 2016).

>(2) The Age of Em - <1%, since we cannot obtain functional models even of 40 year old microchips from scanning them, to say nothing of biological organisms (Jonas & Kording, 2016)

>(3) (a) Biosingularity to Technosingularity - 50%, since the genomics revolution is just getting started and governments are unlikely to either want to, let alone be successful at, rigorously suppressing it. And if AGI is harder than the optimists say, and will take considerably longer than mid-century to develop, then it's a safe bet that IQ-augmented humans will come to play a critical role in eventually developing it. I would put the probability peak for a technosingularity from a biosingularity at around 2100.

>(3) (b) Direct Biosingularity - 5%, if we decide that proceeding with AGI is too risky, or that consciousness both has cardinal inherent value and is only possible with a biological substrate.

>(4) Eschaton - 10%, of which: (a) Philosophical existential risks - 5%; (b) Malevolent AGI - 1%; (c) Other existential risks, primarily technological ones: 4%.

>(5) The Age of Malthusian Industrialism - 10%, with about even odds on whether we manage to launch the technosingularity the second time round.

>>14986742
Exotic prime troll material

>>14987091
Well please elaborate to me how bananas from banana republics became not so bananas?

>>14986720
>Is eugenics neccisary to prevent societal decline?
yes. it would seem so
>>14987198
are you fucking stupid, or have you lived in a vacuum echo chamber all your life?

>>14987959
Not that anon, but I agree with everything you've said.
For eugenics I don't think its something you need to write into laws, we can just grow genetically perfect children in labs.

>>14990849
>https://www.unz.com/akarlin/short-history-of-3rd-millennium/
>>(1) (a) Direct Technosingularity - 25%, if Kurzweil/MIRI/DeepMind are correct, with a probability peak around 2045, and most likely to be implemented via neural networks (Lin & Tegmark, 2016).
>>(2) The Age of Em - <1%, since we cannot obtain functional models even of 40 year old microchips from scanning them, to say nothing of biological organisms (Jonas & Kording, 2016)
>>(3) (a) Biosingularity to Technosingularity - 50%, since the genomics revolution is just getting started and governments are unlikely to either want to, let alone be successful at, rigorously suppressing it. And if AGI is harder than the optimists say, and will take considerably longer than mid-century to develop, then it's a safe bet that IQ-augmented humans will come to play a critical role in eventually developing it. I would put the probability peak for a technosingularity from a biosingularity at around 2100.
>>(3) (b) Direct Biosingularity - 5%, if we decide that proceeding with AGI is too risky, or that consciousness both has cardinal inherent value and is only possible with a biological substrate.
>>(4) Eschaton - 10%, of which: (a) Philosophical existential risks - 5%; (b) Malevolent AGI - 1%; (c) Other existential risks, primarily technological ones: 4%.
>>(5) The Age of Malthusian Industrialism - 10%, with about even odds on whether we manage to launch the technosingularity the second time round.
Who ask
>>14990912
dumb fuck

>>14987959
>Probably true with overt eugenic policies, most people are very impressionable though, Eugenic policies are regularly snuck into the mainstream via movements like the pro-choice or transgenderism movements.
This statement implies that the problem is a black and white whereas the concept and its abstracts are infinite.
Are the kings and queens of the past a byproduct of eugenics?

>>14986720
>maybe if we let the criminal mafia who created this dysgenic system in the first place design humanity itself, things will finally get better!!
It's time for the mob to start culling your likes.

>>14986720
That isn't dysgenics. Put lead back into food, abd everything soon returns to normal.
>>14987202
>>14987329
>>14990488
It seems that healthy people are prevented from getting jobs.

>>14987959
>transgenderism movements
This isnt eugenics though.

>>14987091
Let different "cultivars" handle it. You don't need to have just one project going on per jurisdiction. You can have like 20 experiment frameworks in parallel and see what brings the most. And that's just in per country.
Also aesthetics would obviously be part of it, you goof.

>>14986720
It's eugenics or eventual societal collapse.
Every generation gets more defective than the last, because selection pressures like childbirth or sicknesses don't matter as much as they used to. Some of the most important pressures selecting for "health" have completely vanished. We are even searching and finding workarounds for "functionally sterile" right now.
This isn't sustainable. This isn't sustainable at all.

Re framework:
One could take have the following scheme: to speed up insights, we can't wait too long. So can start collect parameters in a staggered manner:
- At age 5, the health/sickliness of the eugeniced children is evaluated.
- At 10, the preliminary intelligence is evaluated. I highly doubt there will be major "surprises" after, but it's valuable to again have an eval with adults.
at 15, character is evaluated. Same applies as before: 15 is "ripe" enough to judge a person's lifetime character. (Remember, this data isn't supposed to be optimal, but just deliver an optimal 'data gathered/time waited' efficiency).
- At age 20, intelligence can be evaluated again, this time with the full gamut. Also, physical attractiveness is evaluated. In particular, we can also check here what predicts if someone ends up having had a major transformation from their childhood physical attractiveness, or if it was just an "expected" trajectory. It's useful to determine what genes/factors result in an unexpected delta (bodily appearance wise), that can be corrected/exploited/studied/etc.
- At age 25, mental maturity and how well they "adult" is evaluated. May have an autism check effect. This also includes aesthetics (not in a "certain styles are haram" way, but more "jeez, you evolved at all from your literal 15 years old self". What they elected to have as their adult style isn't actually important).
- At age 30, you can have a final test where you discuss and assess philosophy and shit.

I think, counterintuitively, we should give more weight to normalized tests like IQ tests or at the very least such semi-subjective evaluations as listed above, rather than career etc. there are too many unknowns determining an entire person's life/career/success, whereas you can find out if someone is a sack of walking garbage in one day, accurately enough.

>>14991316
>It's eugenics or eventual societal collapse.
Societal collapse is eugenics. Dysgenic elite """eugenics""" is dysgenics.

>>14986720
It's too slow to killoff undesirable people or incentivizing the desired people to procreate. That'd take many generations just to see any notable difference.
We must engineer superbeings in a lab. Forgo the limitation that it has to be "human." In fact it might be preferred to create something that doesn't look human. So that inferior humans (everyone) don't get upset to the point of creating unrest, riots and wars.

>>14986720
bigamy is natural eugenics. It is the future to prevent collapse like rome and greece

>>14991390
Pic related is me, by the way.

>>14986720
no, it's just an expression of bloodlust enacted by those in positions of authority who are not physically able to kill by themselves

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LSZCxzmhico

>>14990836
Based. Good for them. Fuck the rest of the world if they’re too pussy to do it.

>>14990849
Interesting. The numbers seem like random guesses, but cool outcome possibilities.

Let Darwinism do its thing and don't do evil shit

>>14987395
>dont be like the place with the majority of top 100 universities and the most innovative largest STEM companies

>>14990912
>have you lived in a vacuum echo chamber all your life
see >>14987375 maybe that activates your almonds a bit


>>14990488
>smart people on the other hand just focus on their careers and never have kids
>not having kids is bad except when it's smart
okay

>>14992046
I’m saying it’s a bad habit of smart people, not that it’s a smart thing to do.

>>14992020
You could say this about any empire on the decline. But their near future looks a lot worse than their recent past.

>>14986720
YES.

>>14986720
Absolutely, and we need to start with all those liberal blood sucking degenerate parasites. Killing all of them is the bare minimum we must do to save the planet.

>>14986720
Sterilizing everyone below 90 iq would be a racist thing to do

Playing god on an industrial scale has never worked well for humanity. The Nazis tried it and the Germans are still retards.

>>14992141
Doesn’t necessarily need to be industrial scale, could be lots of little medical decisions made by parents and doctors.

Also why do things like antibiotics and vaccines not count as playing god? Embryo screening will probably be seen that way soon. We will look at someone with a retarded kid and see them the way we see people now who don’t give their kids medications for religious reasons.

>>14992141
The Nazis weren't trying to select for intelligence though. They just wanted to exterminate anyone who wasn't blond-haired and blue-eyed. If your eugenic strategy is retarded it's no surprise that you stay retarded.

I guess the main problem with eugenics is that you need to pick a eugenic strategy that isn't retarded; this, in itself is a problem which requires intelligence. Sadly, a eugenic program run by retards will only serve to accelerate the process of retardation.

>>14992279
>They just wanted to exterminate anyone who wasn't blond-haired and blue-eyed.
Why do people believe stuff like this? It's obviously not true and just made up by some Jewish newspaper owner.

>>14992295
enlighten me then

>>14992338
The Nazis encouraged the birth of ethnically German children, and the euthanization of the severely retarded and incurably criminally insane. That's the extent of their eugenics program, as much as one existed.

>>14992346
Where do the Jews fit into this?

>>14992400
They're foreigners, where could they possibly fit in?

>>14992279
The blue eyed blond hair thing is a meme. They encouraged the birth of Germanic children and discouraged the north of others (to put it mildly).

Lefty politicians are intentionally giving the lowest denominator all of the recourses on order to create a class of retarded nigger cattle. Pretentious faggot ass redditors vote.for this because they think they are the good guys. In reality they are useful morons

>>14992279
Holy SHIT it's obvious you are 12 years.old

>>14992279
I think this is generally a true statement, even if the blond hair blue eyes thing is wrong. Select for positive traits rather than just being part of the in-group and you’ll get good results.

>>14987405
The Nazis were one of the most socialist countries on Earth (if you were an ethnic German)

>>14992279
Nigger, what is the most common eye and hair color in Central Europe where Germany is and was located?

It's brown. And always has been. One of the most common German surnames is literally just saying this person has brown hair. Are you stupid?

Nazis advocated for the pogromming and removal of Jews after they took power, which escalated in fervor as the war turned against them, and ended with them desperately trying to kill off the people they saw as the cause of every bad thing that ever happened to them before they lost the chance to by the time of the surrender. Saying otherwise betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of history on par with claiming that Japan was nothing but a bunch of brainless honor-obssessed retards who attacked the US for no reason.

They hated the Jewish race, and thought that Slavs and Poles were significantly lesser. They hated the politics of other European countries but were fairly neutral on their racial identities.

>>14986720
>Is eugenics neccisary to prevent societal decline?

No, strong walls are enough.

>>14993464
Nationalism and Tribalism are eugenic social ideologies.

>>14990836
sirs, do the needful

>>14987395
>people are opposed to eugenics
There is policies in gov that allows eugenics. Not forced marriage for example is a form of eugenics.

>>14990836
Being stupid mean there's something wrong with your brain.