/sci/ - Science & Math

A period of inactivity so that you can metabolise. If you don't sleep, your body won't be able to keep up with the energy needed to act?

This thread is now about uberman.

>>1495761

doesn't work

>>1495725

it is also needed to repair damage

perhaps sleep is not necessary, but rather a lack of movement during darkness is evolutionarily beneficial?

staying in one place = conserves calories and mitigates chance of encounter with predeator.

sleep as a surge of hormones meant to put an animal down, but not because it needs to go down.

note in pic sleep correlating with weight. big elephant needs lots of calories, so needs to eat all day. big carnivore needs lots of calories, but it still only has to have one successful hunt, then it can happily get to sleep. also note the more intelligent animals having less sleep and some of the less intelligent animals having more sleep, suggesting that intelligence (and therefore any kind of 'memory dump', assuming more intelligent/complex brains would have more to dump) doesn't correlate to need to sleep.

man sleeps relatively little presumably because he can do productive things at night. other animals can't.

>>1495793
I wonder how much this shortens one's lifespan.

>>1495817
shorter sleep time and a lower calorie intake has been proven to extend life in both rats and humans.

I watched a documentary that went into more detail, IIRC correctly, it triggers a "hibernation" like gene, that causes the body to age slower. It's all but confirmed that this has been recreated with drugs now too, extending life by ~30 years.

>>1495793
I work on 48 hour days. problem solved.

>>1495862
tell me more. did this take a long time to get used to? has it affected you massively?

I just feel that a 24 hour day is too shot. I feel like I should be awake:asleep something like 24:12 hours, not 16:8.

>>1495846
>life extending drugs

Where do I purchase these, or sign up for trials that will get me them?

>>1495907
>>1495907
>>1495907
this

yeah seriously what the fuck are you talking about

>>1495907
i don't know

i think the show was called something like "how to live longer", it was a BBC horizons show iirc.

there was a guy on it who bought the drug, think the price was something like $30,000 for a years supply. and that it was all but proven, but of course doing a full human test is going to take over 100 years to complete.

so yeah, maybe that's a good enough starting point for you. enjoy living to your 110! I personally, am far too unhealthy and poor to be able to afford to live any longer than normal!

>>1495879
I'm awake for ~38 hours and I sleep for ~10 hours. I always used to not be able to sleep at night. I just couldn't settle down my thoughts enough to get to sleep which always left me with only a few hours sleep a night. So I just started staying up every other day. I started with a lot of coffee, but now not so much.

And I get a lot more done during the nights I'm awake.

>>1495761
I did the uberman schedule for about a week. Man I got so much done.

I always felt tired, but amazingly, never ridiculously tired.

Then after about a week of it I accidently slept for 12 hours straight and didn't have the motivation to go again.

I'm going to be working simultaneously on 2 big projects in the coming weeks, this might be a good time for me to try this again.

>>1495768
Certainly worked for two years straight with a scientist who visited a doctor every two weeks.

>>1495918
I'd google "life extending drug" but I know I'd just get 100000000 hits of homeopathic garbage and snake oil.

>>1495921
sounds very interesting. im recently self employed (>>1495932 also me) so I can try stuff like this now. I've been considering trying something really simple.

Stay awake till tired.
Sleep till rested.

And see what sort of schedule, if any, I end up on.

Going for the uberman when my summer semester is over next week.

>>1495949
I tried that. I think I stopped around when it turned into 12 hours sleep, 12 hours awake.

>>1495985
make sure you have stuff to do, summerfag.

when I did uberman I was working almost every waking hour

>>1495991
Interesting. I think I'll definitely have to try this to see if I get similar results.

12:12 seems like the most undesirable sleep pattern. It breaks your social routines like so many of these sleep schedules, but it doesn't provide the benefits of more waking hours to compensate.

Do you feel especially rested / tired while doing this?

I think I unwittingly do the uberman whenever I have a lot of shit to do.

>>1495949
I did that for a while, I'm also self employed (part time student/musician). I basically ended up on a 26/10 awake/sleep cycle.

>>1496017
hmmm, thats massively different.

So 26:10, and 12:12. Can either of you remember any more details? Like how long it took you to fall into this routine, how long did it last, your rested state etc?

>>1496013
I am sufficiently tired on day two to sleep soundly and wake up rested. However, if I'm planning strenuous physical activity, I go back to a 24 hour day for that day generally.

>>1496016
Uberman relies on good timekeeping and discipline. It's a hard price to pay for an extra 6 hours each day. I wonder if the effects of 20 minute naps are as effective if taken without such a tight schedule? It certainly isn't convenient to stop work for 20 minutes at a set time.

>>1496034
Wait... im confused.

You say you sleep for 12 hours, and are awake for 12 hours. Then you say that you fall back to a 24 hour day when you have physical activity coming up...

Do you mean you switch to a more normal 16:8 awake:asleep ratio?

>>1496037
It happens when I just fall asleep in the middle of something. Wake up after a bit, back to work. repeat throughout the day.

>>1496016
Bullshit.

You must be on the Uberman schedule for at least a week for your body to get used to it. That means you'll feel like shit for a week until you'll start feeling like a motherfucking walking on sunshine. And once you come off Uberman... ohoho, you're feel like you're getting stabbed in the balls by Empire State buildings.

Again, I call bullshit.

>>1496050
oh, I was talking about a 38:10 schedule. I don't recommend the 12:12 schedule, I constantly felt tired.

>>1496059
Have you ever managed to perform the Uberman schedule to a point where you felt a physiological change? What I mean is, did it actually get easier once you reached a certain point, or is it just a case of good discipline getting easier to maintain with a long running routine?

>>1496059
Well then I guess it doesn't count as that then.

>>1496024
26:10 here.

I've been an insomniac for as long as I can remember, so during high school and college I grew pretty accustomed to going 36+ hours without sleep. It took me about a week to finally settle into this 26:10 cycle. I just gradually stayed up later and later, really just going to bed when I felt tired. All the while, the amount of sleep I needed didn't increase all that much. I can run on this schedule for as long as I want, and if I ever need to snap myself into a normal 16:8 cycle, I just stay up for a full 36-48 hours or so to snap myself back to normal. As far as how rested I feel, I actually feel like I have more energy when I operate according to my natural 26:10 clock. When I force myself to conform to a normal 24hr schedule I either have restless nights, with too little sleep, or nights with 12+ hours of sleep, which just makes me groggy all day.

I'd like to do a study that measured asleep to awake ratios. I normally sleep a good 10 hours, and stay awake for 14 hours. But people in this thread claim to also having 10 hours sleep after being awake for 26 or 38 hours.

I wonder if the amount of sleep required (to wake up feeling rested) is set by time awake or any number of other factors. REM cycles are also a complication too, as waking up right at the end of one will leave you feeling more awake than waking up in the middle of one.

>>1496088
>REM cycles are also a complication too, as waking up right at the end of one will leave you feeling more awake than waking up in the middle of one.

This is big for me. I've even been known to set my alarm clock for earlier than usual, if I'm going to bed later, just so it times out that don't awaken in the middle of REM sleep.

>>1496075
This is exactly what I'd like to understand better. It's kind of important I think because you'd think humans evolved to sleep well on Earth's schedule. I wonder if our tendency for dark rooms and bright monitors has messed with our circadian rhythms. I mean, sleeping during the dark hours was something done for protection, something that isn't really necessary to us now.

>>1496071
Oh man, I don't know how long ago it was.

There is this tripfag I knew from /b/, and it was where I picked up my Uberman schedule from.

He made a thread every day documenting his progress, and I was intrigued so I joined as well.

He worked at home, so it was easier for him, and we usually talked about our experiences and how we were doing. We were on the EXACT same sleeping schedule so should one of us sleep for too long, we can phone each other and wake each other up.

Anyways, long story short, University kicked me in the ass because I had to sleep every 4 and a half hours. He kept continuing on his schedule, though. We kinda lost contact after that.

But what we BOTH agree on is that it takes minimally one week to get used to the sleeping pattern. Mind, when I say you FEEL LIKE SHIT, that is an understatement. Your eyes are continually bloodshot and you look like you're a meth addict who looks like he's going to collapse from exhaustion any time soon.

Pass the one week, however, you feel like a bomb-ass. Refreshed like you have never experienced before.

The only reason why 20 minutes of sleeping works is because you only need about 20 minutes of REM every time you sleep. If you sleep 8 hours, you're basically wasting 7 and half hours of your time.

I have a question. I run 60 - 70 miles a week (no joke, believe it if you want) and am interesting in these weird sleep methods. would it be dangerous/less effective for me to try these things because I'm constantly doing strenuous activity?

>>1496096
well I managed to maintain the schedule myself for pretty much 1 week (it does get hard to follow the days exactly by that point).

I was constantly tired, but I'd never say I felt sleep deprived. I felt awake enough to drive anyway (and I'm a big stickler for not driving even after 1 pint).

But then I had one huge sleep in that fucked my schedule and nearly made me miss a deadline so I called it off.

I'm ready to give this a go again at some point in the coming weeks (when I'm going to have a shitton of work to do), I might consider keeping a blog / using time tracking software and making notes / posting a log on here.

>>1496111

enjoy your myocardial infarction.

>>1496096
Did you ever experiment with the lighter, 3 and 4 phase versions? I don't have the discipline or freedom to go for the full Uberman, but I think I could pull off some of the others.

>>1496111
I have no idea. BUT I WANT TO KNOW!

Do it, but record everything. Post results here!

>>1496111
I would advise a "normal" sleep schedule if you run 10 miles a day. And yes, I believe it, I've seen people do more. Physical tired isn't quite the same as Mental tired.

>>1496118
how will i get a heart attack from being fit

>>1496116
Do it.

Make a progress report on /sci/.

Inspire other people to do the same.

>>1496123
Not the person you asked, but I had a go at one of them very briefly. Think it was a Core sleep of 3 hours with 3x20min naps (or something similar to that).

I couldn't do it. The 3 hour nap ended up a 8+ hour sleep each time I tried. I actually had more success with the uberman.

And the skill of being able to sleep on command that comes with uberman was amazing and really useful. I just don't think it could be maintained in any serious long term ways, because one fuck up (alarm doesn't go off for example), and you take a serious hit and end up tired for ages.

How long are the periods of wakefulness while on the Uberman? If I did my math right, you take a twenty-minute nap every three hours and twenty minutes, but I'm not sure if I did my math right.

Assuming I did, how badly would I be screwed if I altered it to take a forty-minute nap once a week, and then skipped one nap? Because I'm looking at my upcoming college schedule and I could do the Uberman, except that I've got a block of classes on Wednesday that lasts six hours, which would throw me off.

>>1496138

there is such as thing as stressing your heart too much.

>>1496111

1. I thought your heart is supposed to be "racing" any longer than 30mins to an hour or it starts to suffocate.

2. I also thougth REM stage wasn't the only important stage of sleep. I thought your body needs to repair itself also during a certain stage of sleep.

>>1496146
Don't do it.

You can't make up sleep.

>>1496138
I think the running 10miles a day plus only giving your body 2hours per night to repair itself is what would give you problems.

I personally am a little less fit that you (I do about 6miles/day). I've ran after 2 nights without sleep before, and that shit was not fun.

>>1496143
Hmmm... very interesting. Thanks, anon.

>>1496165

Is there anything you would suggest, then? Or should I just give up the idea altogether?

>>1496146
Ah! I just found my everyman schedule in my pics folder... can't find the graphic I made for my uberman schedule though sorry, it was much simpler anyway.

Lets see if I can remember this:

- 1400-1420 Sleep
- 1420-1800 Awake
- 1800-1820 Sleep
- 1820-2200 Awake
- 2200-2220 Sleep
- 2220-0200 Awake

Repeat for the other 12 hours. Basically, to keep it simple (and it's really important you do) just sleep on the hours that best suit you. I picked 2, 6 and 10 (and that means both am and pm at those hours).

But you will really be looking forward to each of your 6 glorious naps each day. It isn't something to try without discipline.

>>1496191
How lenient is this? From what I hear, the longer your "main" sleep is (or the less 20min naps you take) the less strict you have to be with your schedule. Is this true? If I got busy running errands, and was an hour late for my nap, would that completely fuck me for the next week (like it would with the Uberman)?