/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14942297
We could have stopped it in 15 days but schizos and political morons refused to wear masks or social distance

>>14942297
>woke pro-censorship normies
Your brain has been rotted by drugged out youtubers and glowie psyops.

>>14942317
Censorship has gotten pretty popular in recent years, and most normies seem to support it. You really don't see that?
The most notable examples of this often come from woke lefty types, although to be fair, a lot of normies on the right support similar policies like the anti-BDS laws, which right wing neocons and zionists have been just as supportive of as the woke left.

>>14942297
>How and why did they get "the science" so wrong, especially given that COVID policy was supposedly "settled science"?
It never was "settled science" in any way. From day 1 it was exceedingly clear that we were operating on a shoddy best guess that was still very much in development, and that this sucked but it's what we had so what you gonna do. Anyone trying to represent the situation as "settled science" is just lying to you.

>>14942311
>We could have stopped it in 15 days but schizos and political morons refused to wear masks or social distance

I have heard woke leftists say this dozens of times, but this just demonstrates that woke leftists are the one who are actually "anti-science", to use their own Orwellian terminology. If they actually knew what they were talking about, then they would know that this argument is retarded because the goal of lockdowns was never to "beat" COVID. By April 2020, when the lockdowns started, there were already hundreds of thousands of COVID cases, so the disease was already going to be endemic. It was already too late to contain it by then, and even the mainstream health officials never said anything about "beating" COVID or stopping the spread. That's not my opinion. That's what the mainstream health authorities themselves said. The stated goal of lockdowns was not to "beat" COVID, they were simply intended to "slow the spread", supposedly to prevent hospitals from being overrun.

Even if all the "anti-vax", "anti-mask", and "anti-science" people had complied with every single mask mandate and lockdown order we still would not have "beaten" COVID, and again, even the mainstream health authorities have not been stupid enough to make that sort of claim. And yet, for some reason masses of normies seem to think that we could have "beaten" COVID or that there should be a "zero COVID" strategy, as many of them have suggested. The retards are blaming other people for not "trusting the science" when they themselves have no idea what they're talking about.

>>14942311
>We could have stopped it in 15 days but schizos and political morons refused to wear masks or social distance
that didn't work for new zealand, austrilia, china, chile, argentina and any other country that tried lockdowns (a thing with zero evidence)

>>14942350
>that didn't work for new zealand, austrilia, china, chile, argentina and any other country that tried lockdowns (a thing with zero evidence)
Literally worked perfectly for China and New Zealand, illiterate

>>14942359
>and New Zealand
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/16/new-zealand-seeks-to-repeat-world-beating-covid-response-in-face-of-surging-cases

>The country, which once embraced snap lockdowns in the face of a single Covid case, has in recent months progressively dropped restrictions and carried on as thousands of people have been infected. Now, looking down the barrel of a rising wave of infections and a growing death toll, New Zealand faces the question of whether it can reclaim its reputation for a world-beating Covid response.
>Despite high vaccination rates, that status looks tenuous. According to Johns Hopkins University data, New Zealand is now in the top three countries in the world for average daily confirmed cases per 100,000 people and the top seven for deaths, ahead of Australia, the US and the UK. On a per-capita basis, its Covid deaths have now overtaken Japan’s – a country that rode out the pandemic without lockdowns, but maintained very high mask compliance.

Lockdowns only delay the inevitable, which is logic

>>14942297
Part of it was bureaucratic inertia, but most of it was intentional. By enacting a controlled demolition of Western economies, governments were able to formulate the perfect excuse to print money to bail out the unsustainable debts they were racking up while also draining the money from the middle class. It was the biggest wealth transfer from lower to upper classes in world history.

>>14942297
It was very obviously to get people to comply + not scare people because muh economy.
We should have welded people into their apartments like china did

>>14942297
virtue signaling herd animals...
bonus points if you can destroy someone while virtue signaling

>>14942370
Sounds like just wearing a mask and not being autistic was the best option. How are the vax rates in Japan and New Zealand?

>>14942317
Cool projection. Go back to watching your ecelebs now redditard.

>>14943165
>How are the vax rates in Japan and New Zealand?
https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
90% got "primary series", 73% boosted.

They just proved vaccines were useless, they locked the whole country down and went with zero-covid, then after they reached their arbitrary safe and effective threshold of mud bloods, they opened the gates because they were so sure about their SCIENCE

>>14942370
If everyone 'delayed the inevitable' it wouldn't have been inevitable, chud.

>>14943576
I know that you're trolling, but some people literally believe that the US should have locked down forever and that people should only be allowed outside with cuckmuzzles for 100 years.

>>14943693
>oh noooo I have to wear a tiny bit of cloth on my face forever

>>14942297
>How and why did they get "the science" so wrong,
COVID never existed to begin with.

>>14942297
most people, in every walk of life, are incompetent buffoons

>>14942311
masks dont do anything. you are too stupid to even post here. dont ever post again

>>14942345
>when they themselves have no idea what they're talking about
They rarely do. Glad you finally got to learn this life lesson

I move to retroactively change the internet's mid-90s nickname to the disinformation super highway.

>>14943729
Sorry but I don't think I will get your clot shot, nor will I wear your cuckmuzzle.

>>14942297
i imagine that part of the reality is that humans in a collective sense fail to act in a way counter to their self interest. tragedy of the commons.
absolutely covid could have been resolved in a month of total lockdowns. with martial law and forced quarantine, those with the disease will be unable to spread it to those without. the disease cannot survive without a host, and once it's cleared, it's gone.
it's not rocket science. AIDS would disappear if people who had HIV just didn't have sex with other people. in a single generation, HIV could be totally eradicated from the planet forever. but people aren't going to do that and so more people will suffer.

the utilitarian thing to do would be to enforce absolute control at the start of the outbreak. you could even round up infected people and execute them, or imprison them, or otherwise ensure that they do not contact other humans.

instead, "freedom" was chosen to be more important than the lives of the collective. more people got sick, and more people died, and everyone collectively suffered inconveniences as a result of the few who were initially infected.

this half-assed policy is the result of the people you have elected into power. if you wanted less or more, the situation would have been different with different people in power. you're responsible, by proxy, for being complacent every step along the way. if it bothered you, you should have done something.

>>14943814
>absolutely covid could have been resolved in a month of total lockdowns. with martial law and forced quarantine, those with the disease will be unable to spread it to those without. the disease cannot survive without a host, and once it's cleared, it's gone.
Even though it was a lab-engineered virus, it's still based on the wild-type virus with animal hosts. It's literally not possible to quarantine away a virus with an animal reservoir.

>>14943821
>It's literally not possible to quarantine away a virus with an animal reservoir.
yeah it is, you just aren't willing to accept the consequences for doing so. eradication campaigns, mass poisonings, self-limiting genes.
it's all cost-benefit analysis. we can do it, we just don't want to.

even then, you're being intentionally disingenuous to say that even a significant amount of spread is between animals and people.

>>14943826
>even then, you're being intentionally disingenuous to say that even a significant amount of spread is between animals and people.
Any amount of spread whatsoever makes your campaign moot. If you miss one reservoir at all, you're fucked and you killed all those people for nothing.

Anyway this is all very stupid because it was just a bad cold. In no way did the disease actually justify the draconian measures governments implemented in real life, let alone the insanity you want to press onto plebs in your fantasies.

>>14943829
we've eradicated both smallpox, and rinderpest. neither of which required eradicating all humans, or all cattle/deer/buffalo/etc.

>it was just a bad cold
i don't think you're arguing in good faith, and i don't think you are interested in having a discussion.
you might be very young, and not familiar with the response to other respiratory diseases, many of which were less virulent. another coronavirus, "SARS-CoV-1" raised similar concerns in 2002. ultimately, lockdowns, travel restrictions, and the disease being not being particularly transmissible lead to the infection being more or less totally eradicated in 2003. no new cases have emerged since 2004. 774 people died.

contrast with SARS-CoV-2 which was first documented in 2019.

>>14943854
>ultimately, lockdowns, travel restrictions
You are literally just making stuff up, and have no idea whagt you're talking about. Nobody did "lockdowns" for SARS in 2002. "Lockdowns" were an ineffective strategy made up by leftists in 2020.

Also, at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, anyone advocating travel restriction was literally described as a racist "far-right" conspiracy theorist, and people would told to continue their normal business, and to welcome Chinese travelers with open arms, because not doing so would be "racist". See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNMdg4morQs

>>14944101
>Nobody did "lockdowns" for SARS in 2002.
definitely not, considering it began in november 2002. quarantines started in 2003.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5218a1.htm
>On March 24, MOH invoked the Infectious Diseases Act to quarantine all contacts who have been exposed to SARS patients.
>This legislation allows mandatory home quarantine for 10 days, which is now enforced by CISCO, a Singapore Security Agency.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7097388/
>All schools in Hong Kong were closed in April 2003 to prevent the spread of SARS.


http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/hongkongsarsquar.html
>Hong Kong said Thursday it will quarantine for up to 10 days anyone who resides with a confirmed SARS patient, in a tough measure to halt the spread of a disease that has killed 30 and sickened almost 1,000 in this city alone.
>Those under quarantine will not be allowed to go out except "under exceptional circumstances."
>Authorities believe it is spreading via air travel, and health workers at airports throughout Asia are checking arriving passengers for the symptoms of fever, aches, dry cough and shortness of breath.
>Malaysia started denying visas to most Hong Kong people. Taiwan said medical staff would quarantine arriving travelers found to have a fever.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2003_04_11-en
>WHO thus decided, on 15 March, to issue a rare emergency travel advisory as a global alert to international travellers, health care professionals, and health authorities.

but yeah it does seem like mandatory quarantines and school closures just didn't happen 20 years ago with the last coronavirus outbreak. same about travel restrictions, especially for asians, like when they grounded a flight in california full of chinese people in 2003. or when the WHO put out an advisory against traveling to a list of east asian countries.
but, if you ignore all that it's definitely unprecedented and a totally new thing.

>>14943168
>projection
You retards learn a new word and start spamming it, thinking you sound smart

>>14943814
A single person can't vote in who they want alone. He could've done everything he could, voted for all the right people and it'd play out exactly the same. Stop believing you have some imaginary control just because you can vote.

>>14943854
>you might be very young, and not familiar with the response to other respiratory diseases, many of which were less virulent. another coronavirus, "SARS-CoV-1" raised similar concerns in 2002. ultimately, lockdowns, travel restrictions, and the disease being not being particularly transmissible lead to the infection being more or less totally eradicated in 2003. no new cases have emerged since 2004. 774 people died.
It did not fucking work then either, and they barely did anything. Where I'm from we had travelers with SARS from China come here and die in local hospitals after exposing hundreds of people. I knew people who had SARS and recovered. It just wasn't actually that transmissible, didn't hurt young people most of the time, and it wasn't difficult to have cross immunity from prior coronavirus strains (just like the current coronavirus).

You're spreading bullshit under the hopes that people actually believe you, but most of us lived through it. We know it was different then, and people reacted differently compared to the insane overreaction of today.

>>14944956
Maybe hes in one of those countries that did have them

>>14944977
They closed schools for one month. We closed the world for 2 years and mandated worthless shots forever (they're on the childhood jab schedule now).

>>14942311
they could have stopped it if the george floyd psyop hadnt been rolled out to keep the spread rolling

>>14944980
>We closed the world for 2 years
What world did you live in?

>>14942297
we didn't and all of this was purposeful and planed, do you rike :)

>>14942297
>How and why did they get "the science" so wrong
ON PURPOSE.

>>14942297
>COVID policies were "settled science", and that anyone who question these policies or narratives was therefore objectively wrong, and engaging in the spread of misinformation.
Big Cis-Gendered Sibling likes being bossy. If people allow the government goons to boss them, they will keep doing so and stomp that boot harder.

People must laugh at government, laws, and cops to be free.

Ridicule them, laugh at them, ignore them.

>>14944956
>>14944960
that's a really cool anecdote but hawaii isn't asia. i don't give a fuck if you believe me, you can look up the reality because we have the internet. schools were closed. traveler's were screened. people were forcibly quarantined. there was a genuine concern that asia would never get rid of SARS.

yeah there were no "effects" in hawaii, there were over 8,000 people infected over the entire duration of the outbreak and about 800 died.
contrast with covid-19, with over 630 million cases, and over 6 million reported deaths.
you understand the difference in those numbers right? that's nearly 5 orders of magnitude.
they were closing schools, grounding flights, and forcibly quarantining people during an outbreak which went on to only infect 8000 people.

i'm not sure what you are referring to as bullshit. did quarantines and travel restrictions and school closures not happen in 2003?
why do you think they did them?
why do you think they did them in 2020?
why do you think the outcome was different?
how do you think we should have handled a disease which went on to infect nearly 10% of the planet?

>>14944370
Yes, those were all localized travel restrictions and quarantines. The concept of "lockdowns" didn't even exist in the early 2000s, and they were certainly not employed on a global scale, with the threat of criminal prosecution, as in some jurisdictions during the COVID pandemic.

>>14945345
definitely. it would be insane to implement travel restrictions in the US when the disease is practically totally isolated to asia.
but, in asia, they did implement unprecedented restrictions on individuals. the world cup was meant to be held in china in 2003, but it was moved due to SARS concerns.
travel visas were revoked, breaking quarantine in hong kong did have legal consequences.
"such as quarantines, other restrictions on mobility, intrusive monitoring, and sanctions for violating disease containment measures."
>https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1979&context=faculty_scholarship

i'm not saying it was the same. it's not the same. the extent of covid-19 is much more widespread than SARS was. more people are infected every day with covid-19 than were infected with SARS over the entire outbreak. the scale is totally different.
but what governments are doing now, mirrors what they did then. SARS restrictions were not globally implemented, because the disease was not present globally. covid-19 is global.
if SARS had infected hundreds of millions of people globally, would you expect restrictions to be implemented globally?
if covid only infected a few thousand people and was contained to asia, would you expect restrictions to be implemented globally, or just in those asian countries?

It's called colluding.
1. Bill Gates ran tests extremely similar for an outbreak like this years ago.
2. Bill Gates also is extremely rich, Microsoft literally bullies companies at times breaking contracts and not giving two f***s about it.
3. The guy is an avid racketeer who makes issues then profits from them. Similarly to how his machines get viruses so easily. There's a reason why he got rich so fast and it's not all chance/luck.

Throw in your character consistency data points and get a clue.

>>14943763
Probably a nigger

I can't believe vaxxed people are still pushing this shit. You niggers are evil and beyond redemption. I have friends who told me they are not as before, less energy, unusual heart beats, faints, don't fucking say "it's long covid" mfs none of the unvaxxed are having those troubles. My friend's life was fucked over by this shit, he always get sick and coughs regularly. I admit you are proud and will never admit you done this just by yourselves, but some vaxxed people will admit they regret it, because that's what being a man is about.

>>14945333
>how do you think we should have handled a disease which went on to infect nearly 10% of the planet?
I would have hoped they would have followed known pandemic guidelines like Sweden did instead of using it as an excuse to take more control over the economy and populace using medical theater.

>>14942311
bait

Look up Event 201. All you need to know.

>>14942370
The numbers that would show if it works or not is how many people need hospitalization at any one time vs the capacity of the hospital system.
If you keep the first lower than the second you will save lives, if you don't treatable people will die without treatment.

>>14947647
Hospitals were so empty during the "height" of the pandemic that hospitals laid off ER staff, and were willing to cut ~25% of nurses when they refused the vax. Those aren't the actions of an overwhelmed hospital system.

>>14947657
Both Trump and Biden gave a trillion each to Wall Street, these are not the actions of a nation with huge debt and yet it happened.
Politics drives more decisions than logic ever will.

>>14942311
Fuck off moron, you will only learn when a chainsaw is cutting you in half.

>>14942317
You need to become a roadkill.

>>14947681
This is a strong argument against the vax being useful. Politics drove its adoption, not science.

>>14943752
Facts, it was just a seasonal cold.

>>14942317
>if I use words like glowie, then i'll fit in with all the chuds on 4chanz

>>14945454
True. But Gates is just one player in the game.

>>14944101
now you see how the game is played. what is true doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is you are bullied into compliance by mouth breathers that fucking stupid who freely do the bidding of the rulers who are fucking sadists, for some Twitter clout good boy points

>>14947814
>the only thing that matters is you are bullied into compliance by mouth breathers that fucking stupid who freely do the bidding of the rulers who are fucking sadists, for some Twitter clout good boy points
the actual state of the world today, because people are still too "civil" to go barbarian Viking on the dregs of society that are bringing it down.

>>14947806
I would love to fill their faces with nails.

>>14942359
New Zealand is a fucking island and China made the virus so they pretended to defeat it with lockdowns just so stupid westerners would do it too and cripple their economy. Like believing North Korea that they've only had one case of covid

>>14947828
Now you understand why the government response to January 6th was so wildly out of proportion.

>>14942297
Off the top of my head I know Johns Hopkins proved staying indoors during the winter actually increased the spread of COVID 19, It was in a pretty big international and heavily peer-reviewed study, I lived in Baltimore last year so I got the physical copy of the report mailed to my door in their quarterly journal. I've tried googling it but can't find it digitally- sadly, the full reports rarely get posted publicallyy online, not sure of the reason why not, or if I'm just bad at searching for it.

The other thing they got wrong was the 6 feet apart. An MIT study found that it didn't matter if you were 6 feet apart or 60 feet apart, the exposure risk was still the same. So, why settle on the number six? When we should technically be 60 feet apart if we are to listen to the legitimate "science"? MIT is about as well respected a research institution as they come.

There are probably many more, like the mask one, which was always ludicrous.

>>14945333
Fuck off you piece of shit, criminals like you only understand violence.

>>14942311
During the first 15 days literally everyone did follow that protocol, it wasn't till after did people start getting pissed with the bullshit.

>>14942297
corporate ontology with science invoke the SCIENCE™ products,
using this utility they can define reality the way it suit them.
for example claiming that natural immunity doesn't exist is one of the most obvious anti-science notion, yet any "science" institution was completely ignoring this fact and focus his resources to strengthen the rhetorical positions that deny it.
science became an instrument to sell products, a trustworthy face an authority and that's it.

>>14948327
This. There was nothing scientific about the pandemic. Even the way they made the virus wasn't based on any scientific principle (because they weren't trying to learn anything new, they knew what would happen).

>>14947895
>Now you understand why the government response to January 6th was so wildly out of proportion.
Truth.
All it has done though was make people even more pissed off.

>>14942297
>>14942370
>>14942970
>>14943163
>>14943433
>>14943693
>>14943752
>>14943763
>>14943814
>>14944391
>>14944960
>>14944977
>>14945007
>>14945379
>>14945454
>>14947615
>>14947700
>>14947705
2 more weeks

trust the plan

Q

>>14942297
in the end, the important thing is that you complied

https://rumble.com/v1pmp7r-grab-your-vial-do-your-fancy-dances.html

>>14947895
>buffalo hat guy
if only he had worn his mask, he wouldn't be rotting in a federal prison. makes you think

>>14942311
This is the unironic truth, and the fact that Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and China all had less than 1% the per capita fatalities of the US is proof of this.

Gas all schizos.

>>14949314
South Korea had an insanely bad death rate after vaccination. If you think they did better than the US, who fraudulently increased their covid death toll and still weren't the worst nation in the pack, you're delusional.

>>14949314
>This is the unironic truth
No it's not.

>and the fact that Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and China all had less than 1% the per capita fatalities
They didn't have zero cases.

>>14949314
>>14949452
You know what those places also don't have? Excessive immigration.
>Inb4, "hurr illegalaliens are medically vetted/social distance"

They aren't. If they were, polio wouldn't have come back to America.

>>14949453
Point being, immigrants or no, there was no "two weeks and it'll be over" scenario. The virus was spread worldwide before we knew about it in January 2020. Unless you could literally lock down the entire world for several months (because some people are contagious for more than two weeks), there was no stopping it.

>>14949458
>Point being, immigrants or no, there was no "two weeks and it'll be over" scenario.
An extremely poor point because if there were no immigrants then there would have never been a "scenario" to speak about in the first place.

>The virus was spread worldwide
>because of immigrants

>before we knew about it in January 2020.
good thing someone shut down the immigrants from the source of it.

>Unless you could literally lock down the entire world for several months
Where the fuck have you been for the last two years? Wake up before you really get fucked.

>>14949314
>China

>>14942297
>15 days to slow the spread

Ideally you ask everyone to shelter in place for exactly the amount of time it takes to incubate, or 15 days. With the virus not spreading anymore, you can then find where it's hiding by checking for symptoms and doing testing. Then once you've located the "hot spots" you make them quarantine further longer and treat the sick.

Problem A, was asymptomatic spread. Problem B was not enough tests.
We did the stop the spread. We failed the "find where it's hiding" which made the quarantine the hot spots impossible.

>>14942311
>schizos and political morons refused to wear masks or social distance
This is something all weathermen know, but when a weatherman is giving the weather about something serious like a hurricane they can't overplay the danger. If you overplay the danger, then the next hurricane people will not believe you when you say it's dangerous. If you underplay the danger then lives may be lost. It's important to tell it EXACTLY like it is, with no embellishment.

Politics got in the way of this earnest telling of the truth with covid and we're STILL feeling the effect at this very moment with people distrusting the government and not knowing what to believe is true. This is why you can't play games in an emergency or even the reasonable suspicion an emergency may happen. The truth saves lives.

>>14949503
>not enough tests
old meme here, but timely

>>14949504
False positivity rate for a PCR """test""" (PCR isn't designed for virus identification, and the inventor always warned against using it for this) at 35+ cycles is higher than the real positivity rate.

At that level of RNA polymerization even a pawpaw fruit would test positive for coronavirus proteins due to random chance.

>>14943814
>you could even round up infected people and execute them
ow, the edge
imagine killing someone over the flu

>>14947806
why they are always so fucking ugly?
are they supposed to be the "elites" each one of them look like a sack of shit

>>14949793
u COULD tho

>>14949464
First, Chinese Americans/Europeans had already returned home to various countries and brought the virus with them. Shutting down immigration wouldn't have stopped that, the virus was already everywhere. Second, China has had the only true lockdowns. The "lockdowns" in the West are not true lockdowns.

>Wake up before you really get fucked.
I'm not the retard arguing that lockdowns would have saved the world, in fact I'm arguing the opposite, that they were worthless and probably detrimental.

>>14949793
Imagine being an illiterate retard who doesn't understand basic science, and thinking you should have the right to go around spreading a deadly disease to other people just because you don't want a vaccine because muhs right and muh deep state and muh microchip implants.
Take you meds, schizo.

>>14950362
>words, words, words
you have to go back to redit

>>14950362
the collective has decided you are too fucking stupid to live among us and we need to execute you for harmony and well being. Dont leave your residence a team will arrive shortly. i know you are too stupid to understand the irony but the joke isn't for you. it is to show people smarter than you how dangerous morons like you are if you aren't watched and put in your place with force

>>14942297
15 days assumed utopian levels of compliance with the lockdown, instead it took most developed nations 6-8 months to flatten their curves. Nowhere near enough people in the US complied, and China never got enough effective vaccines (Sinovax only being half as effective as Pfizer, Moderna, etc.)

>>14942326
Why would highlighting false information limit freedom of information?

>>14950362
Why do people believe the vaccine injury rate is so low when all reputable sources prove it's around 5-10% to cause a life-changing injury?

>>14950298
>First, Chinese Americans/Europeans had already returned home to various countries and brought the virus with them.
So quarantine them.

>Shutting down immigration wouldn't have stopped that, the virus was already everywhere.
It would have and it wouldn't get everywhere (without immigration). It is literally the most effective and demonstrable prevention of sickness.

>Second, China has had the only true lockdowns. The "lockdowns" in the West are not true lockdowns.
That is becoming an increasingly popular (and broken record at this point) phrase. Will your next line in a year be:
>"You were never forced to take the vaccine, it is your responsibility for taking the risks involved or for any damage that occurs".

>I'm not the retard arguing that lockdowns would have saved the world
I'm not the retard falsely comparing a lockdown to a proper immigration policy that quarintines sick people instead of bussing/planing them to democrat cities in mass. Do any of these immigrants have their vax card (before they enter?). They do...now after the fact.

>in fact I'm arguing the opposite, that they were worthless and probably detrimental.
Because they weren't "true lockdowns" right?

>>14950839
>Do any of these immigrants have their vax card (before they enter?). They do...now after the fact.
Ironically, illegals are the only group in the entire US not mandated to get the vax. Even when they're caught and released into the US the mandate doesn't apply to them. Really makes you think.

>>14942297
i though it was just a test for nuclear readiness.

>>14950863
events such as covid are always multipurpose. but one of those purposes was surely a preparation for a war with russia.

>>14950362
>still believe this vaccine stop transmission
The discussion on this has long been over.

>>14949555
>even a pawpaw fruit would test positive for coronavirus proteins due to random chance.
Yep, and that happened also back in 2020. That African President mysteriously died shortly after he refused to take part in the scamdemic.

>>14950874

>>14950860
>illegals are the only group in the entire US not mandated to get the vax. Even when they're caught and released into the US the mandate doesn't apply to them. Really makes you think.

Yet Border Patrol agents were forced to get the mystery juice "vaccines",or be fired. The scam is so blatant, only braindead people and socialists didn't notice it.

>>14950880
The US military has fallen short of its recruitment goals by the largest margin since1973 when the Vietnam draft was just ended and the military's reputation was rock bottom. Even with that, they're still trying to discharge 80k members for refusing to get the injections.

>>14950890
>The US military
Has been a fucking joke since around the late 2000s. Surprised China or India hasn't invaded yet.

>>14943814
>absolutely covid could have been resolved in a month of total lockdowns
you are speculating
>once it's cleared, it's gone.
lamo sure like polio
>but people aren't going to do that and so more people will suffer.
those who fuck each other in the ass you mean
>enforce absolute control at the start of the outbreak. you could even round up infected people and execute them, or imprison them
hold your horses adolf, this is a 99% survival rate scenario even a fraction of what you are illustrating is psychotic
>you're responsible, by proxy
huh?
>for being complacent every step along the way.
people went above and beyond in everything involved in following the guidelines of the health institutions, after they realized that they had been given false messages, they naturally stopped.
i don't think you understand, your position borders with schizophrenic hallucinations. not everyone is like you, and there is no reason for people to be conducted according to your mental illness

>>14950992
>i don't think you understand, your position borders with schizophrenic hallucinations. not everyone is like you, and there is no reason for people to be conducted according to your mental illness
I'd like to think he's just trolling, but sadly these people exist. I'm not sure what the solution to them is though. Maybe they just need to be bullied more in school or something.

>>14950992
imagine you test every single person on the planet for herpes. then, you kill everyone who tests positive or put them in prison or something. yeah there's a latency period and false negatives and so on. do it 10 times or whatever. suffice to say you eventually "get all of them". now when those infected people die, no one else on the planet has a way to get herpes. it's gone, it needs a human host.
it's like smallpox and native americans. they weren't ever exposed to smallpox, so none of them had smallpox. there wasn't smallpox in america.
or smallpox now. people used to get smallpox, then we got rid of smallpox, and now no one gets smallpox.
it's not practically achievable. smallpox took a huge vaccination campaign all over the planet, but nobody gets vaccinated for smallpox anymore because there's no way to contract it.

>>14951182
Coronaviruses have widespread animal hosts you mong. There's no way to eradicate them.

>>14951186
when was the last case of SARS?

>>14951193
Today.

>>14951196

>>14951197
Covid19 has been proven scientifically to be an evolution of the SARS coronavirus. Unless you're denying the origin of the virus...?

>>14951356
untrue. as in, the virus that caused SARS did not become the virus that caused covid.

>>14951377
So what you're saying is that the SARS virus was completely eradicated because... Is just was ok??!!! Except that it jumped from a wild-type virus that remained in existence, jumped again, and became SARS2. Thus proving my point that you could never get rid of it because it comes from an unpredictable animal reservoir.

>>14951384
i'm saying that the virus which caused SARS did not become the virus that caused covid.
in the same way that apes did not become humans.

>>14951405
So you'll eradicate SARS-2 by killing billions, and then when the next one emerges from nature you'll just kill more people?

>>14942311
you have to go back

>>14951407
glad you agree.
scroll up to the start of the thread. it was ultimately that "there was nothing we could do".
but, there is shit we can do, people just aren't willing to do it.
absolute lockdowns. executions of the sick. these WOULD get rid of the disease.
i'm just interested in thinking about it. imagine you had patient zero, before they infected anyone else. is it right to kill them, or force them into quarantine, if it would prevent the rest of the outbreak?
you see where i'm going with this, right?

>>14951439
People like you need to have their brains extracted and studied by neuroscientists. I don't know how it's possible to be that stupid and at the same time that unaware of it.

>>14951499
it's fucking retarded to say "nothing can be done about covid" when something can be done about it.
i'm not trying to fucking battle you i'm interested in the discussion. covid isn't sars, different virus. different evolutionary path.
we can do stuff about covid, it's just a disease. we've gotten rid of other diseases in the past.
getting rid of this one, or not getting rid of it, both have consequences.
what is interesting is thinking about the possible outcomes. how much is freedom worth, compared to life? if 6 million people die from the virus, and that's "okay" because "no one is responsible", surely the utilitarian argument would be that it's fine to kill patient zero.
medicine is all about the value of a life. you could get a blood test every day but it's not worth the money to do so, so we choose to take on that risk associated with sporadic bloodwork instead.
is it fair to restrict the freedoms of people, just because they "might" endanger other peoples lives? is it fair to force quarantine on people?

why can't i drink and drive legally?

do you understand what i am saying?

>>14951519
>do you understand what i am saying?
I get your point, and if it were a purely neutral subject one could have an interesting time discussing thought experiments. However, in real life entertaining ideas like that just gives rope to the genocidal maniacs who run the government. And with that rope they'll hang as many people as they're allowed to in the name of "utilitarianism."

>>14951524
useful idiots get hung with their own tounge
they get the privilege of being called a good boy before they hang, unlike the others who just hang

>>14942297
The government, law enforcement, and news media isn't science.

>>14951519
Eventually you have to consider who is more likely to die. Are all lives worth an equal effort in saving?

The answer is not really when you consider the abyssmal expected remaining longevity most covid deaths have

We have a huge impending demographic bomb and we're supposed to care about elderly dementia patients to our own doom?

>>14950421
>instead it took most developed nations 6-8 months to flatten their curves.
wat
That's not how curves work.

>>14950421
>it didn't work only because the bugman slaves weren't compliant enough!!
Looks like your programmers have trained you to blame their predictable failures on the public itself. It's a genius trick. The worse a job they do, the more you beg for that boot up your ass. At some point people are gonna have to accept that you are the real threat and that a civilized society cannot exist while you are allowed to freely vote and express your political opinions.

>>14950628
One example is when BMJ was censored, and peer reviewing was defeated by censors "fact checking" on Twitter, FB and the like.
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o95

You can't stop it.
Say you live in Germany.
Let's say Germany makes everyone quarantine themselves for 15 days.
Covid is now gone.
Oh whoops haha some guy from Poland enters Germany (legally or illegally) and brings covid with him.
Covid is back.

>>14950628
(1) Restricting people's ability to post and share content deemed to be "misinformation" clearly put a limit of free speech. Whether you support the policy or not is irrelevant. If you are limiting peoples ability to share and discuss this information, then by definition you are limiting their ability to share and discuss information. It's literally a tautology.
(2) There is no reliable way to systematically detect "false information". This is not my opinion, this is backed up by the vast majority of mainstream literature (literally thousands of publications) on belief revision, Bayesian inference, opinion dynamics, social epistemology, and related fields. There are mountains and mountains of data and research on this topic that woke, pro-censorship types completely ignore. Just check the SEP article on the social epistemology. Under very weak assumptions, it is mathematically provably that censorship is ALWAYS counterproductive in the long run. Group of individuals which are able to freely exchange information without the threat of censorship outperform groups of agents which engage in censorship. These sorts of results are robust, widespread, and well established. To use the language of woke pro-censorship types, it's "settled science". Jury theorems are a simple example of this, but some of the results in opinion dynamics are much more robust.

>>14950628
>Why would highlighting false information limit freedom of information?
It wouldn't. It would just create a corporate-governed Ministry of Truth that will be used to program you and your likes to act against the interests of the rest of the population.

>>14952103
>muh freeze peach
>muh freedom of information
It's pretty stunning that your sort still stands behind these dead principles, considering how they've been successfully used to drive your entire system of values into the ground and create a situation where you will soon find yourself in a government reeducation camps. Right-wingers only know how to lose.

>>14942345
Which would you consider more useful in terms of achieving those public health goals, the "woke leftists" who follow official instructions with inflated expectations, or the contrarian rightists who accused masks and vaccines of being tools of (((jewish mind and population control))) and stubbornly refused to accept them?

>>14952187
>which would you consider to be more useful in terms of achieving inherently and intentionally unrealizable goals?
>the people who drink the COVID hysteria koolaid or the people who refuse to participate in the fear circus?
You do not belong on this website. Please go back.

>>14952193
I don't take orders from election tourists.

>>14952198
Do they give all your likes a handbook of stock phrases before they sent you to shill here?

>>14952193
>You do not belong on this website. Please go back.
Nah bro, we already have a /pol/ containment board for you. Go back

>>14952201
>>14952200

>>14952232
>>14952201

>>14952238
Back to /pol/, shill. This is the science board and science does not support your handlers' moronic policies.

>>14952242
>Everyone who disagrees with me is a shill
Take your meds man

>>14952247
Anyone who still regurgitates your talking points is a shill. Back to >>>/pol/.

>>14950839
>So quarantine them.
They brought the virus back before it was in the news. You're now talking about a quarantine of entire countries because there was community spread before January 2020. Good luck with that.

>It would have and it wouldn't get everywhere (without immigration). It is literally the most effective and demonstrable prevention of sickness.
Only if you go back in time and change immigration policy prior to Oct 2019. And not just immigration policy. Citizens of the USA and Europe are not immigrants, but they often travel to other countries to see relatives. You're basically saying that no one should ever be allowed to travel internationally, or that they must quarantine for at least a month. Do you really think that's enforceable?

>That is becoming an increasingly popular (and broken record at this point) phrase. Will your next line in a year be:
Are you legitimately stupid? I'm obviously against lock downs and vaccination. I'm not justifying lock downs, I'm doing the opposite. China has the only true lock downs and it's still not Covid-free.

>Because they weren't "true lockdowns" right?
Because lock downs of any kind don't work, and even the countries you claim don't have "excessive immigration" still had waves of Covid, but yeah, we TOTALLY could have ended things in two weeks if only for that damn immigration. :-/

>>14951984
That's such Orwellian insanity. They can lie about anything and there's no punishment.

>>14952373
>They brought the virus back before it was in the news
Doesn't happen in a country with proper with testing/vaccine requirements at immigration control. But since this is a country with no real immigration control and only checkpoints for drones who buy into it, even utilizing that would be moot.

>You're now talking about a quarantine of entire countries
And the difference with what they did is what? Countries literally banned travel, Australia literally put some of their own citizens in concentration camps.

>Citizens of the USA and Europe are not immigrants
Do you want to define "immigrant"? If I perpetually am nowhere specific am I magically not considered an immigrant? Do other countries laws pertaining to heath requirements just not apply to me?

>Do you really think that's enforceable?
Legal leverage, especially regarding religious exemptions. The ones that caved anywayt. They even worked for free, peer pressuring others to get the shot. I myself was haggled by customers to get the serum right after they got theirs and right before they all started developing various clots, heart and circulation problems.

>Are you legitimately stupid?
Are you a broken record player?

>I'm obviously against lock downs and vaccination
So stop talking about it. Stop giving the psychosis attention.

>China has the only true lock downs and it's still not Covid-free.
North Korea. Surprisingly enough they have next to no covid cases. They only have them in places where basketball player tourists are allowed.You can whinge and whine about their corruption and manipulation of numbers if you want, it doesn't stop the fact that you're already buying into legally volatile scum corporations.

>lock downs of any kind don't work,
So leave your door unlocked tonight. Happy Halloween.

>ended things in two weeks if only for that damn immigration. :-/
We totally could have ignored it completely just like every single other election season plague.

>>14952822
>We totally could have ignored it completely just like every single other election season plague.
Just like Obama's swine/bird flu plague that killed more people.

The whole fake and gay field of epidemiology is just shitting out a differential equation based on limited data, setting t to infinity and writing a report on the "predicted" armageddon.

>>14952828
>Just like Obama's swine/bird flu plague that killed more people.

Oh yeah speaking of, I got that too when I was 16. Shit literally nearly killed me cause I thought I could tough it out. Ended up getting minor pneumonia from it and going to the doctor after a week.
For the benefit of the people who are defending the vaccine, I won't tell you what the doctor gave me that completely cured me in 48 hours.

>>14952139
stfu jew and suck on this hose

>>14952700
>That's such Orwellian insanity.
True, it is their prerogative to define "truth".
>They can lie about anything and there's no punishment.
... and that makes them billions, every year.
I was thinking that soon scientists will have to join the underground, but then I remenbered Retraction Watch, and realised that they are in the underground already. Cyberpunk literature was about the downtrodden nobodies trying to stay under the radar. The authors never realised that would also be scientists.

>>14953040
>I was thinking that soon scientists will have to join the underground, but then I remenbered Retraction Watch, and realised that they are in the underground already. Cyberpunk literature was about the downtrodden nobodies trying to stay under the radar. The authors never realised that would also be scientists.
Retraction Watch is doing the Lord's work. Their article dismantling Michael Mann's fraudulent research was fantastic.

>>14952822
>And the difference with what they did is what? Countries literally banned travel, Australia literally put some of their own citizens in concentration camps.
The difference is you'd have to not just quarantine at the national level, but the household level, i.e. China boarding up doorways and digging up streets so people couldn't leave.

>Do you want to define "immigrant"? If I perpetually am nowhere specific am I magically not considered an immigrant?
You're defining a migrant, not an immigrant. It's still irrelevant. How would banning immigration have stopped the spread in January 2020 when there was community spread but October 2019? That takes us back to my above point, you would have needed to quarantine at the household level.

>So stop talking about it. Stop giving the psychosis attention.
Hang on a second, I'm here arguing against basically all pandemic measures, you're arguing FOR banning all travel and all migration, and I'm the one talking about it? The fuck is wrong with you? I don't even know what your point is anymore. You're simultaneously saying we should go insane and ban all international travel and immigration for eternity, while also complaining that the covid measures were too harsh.

>So leave your door unlocked tonight. Happy Halloween.
Case in point. You're nuts, dude.

>We totally could have ignored it completely just like every single other election season plague.
And you loop back from banning all immigration to saying we should have ignored it. I don't even think you know what your own point is anymore.

>>14952858
>For the benefit of the people who are defending the vaccine, I won't tell you what the doctor gave me that completely cured me in 48 hours.
That was being used for influenza over a decade ago?

>>14953373
Studies of its effectiveness as an antiviral have been going on since at least the early 2000s, after HCQ and Ivermectin were shown to stop SARS replication. As early as 2012 it was being studied as a safer and cheaper HIV medication (and Dengue cure) for third world countries.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22417684/

>>14953043
>Retraction Watch
First time I've heard of them. Tried to access the website and it's down, even the google cache is gone. What's going on?

>>14953438
They must have been deplatformed by one of their hosts/ISPs in the last few weeks. I went to their site really recently. That's fucked up.

>>14953441
First they came for KF, and I did not say anything as I was not a farmer.

>>14942311
I know this is bait, but how retarded does one have to be to unironically believe that you make 8 billion people on earth all keep themselves completely isolated at the same time for a month to eradicate a virus? Anyone who actually thought that was possible was living in pure delusion, in a fantasy world.

>>14953442
The EFF posted an article about the chilling effect of the KF deplatforming, and a lot of retards came out in their comments to bash them for doing their one job as a charity (fighting for a free internet).

>>14953455
That doesn't surprise me. Nothing surprises me anymore.

guys we're sowwy pls no bully

>>14953373
>>14953383
Inhaled antiviral medication through some respirator device at the place and some other antibiotics for the pneumonia.

>>14953173
>The difference is you'd have to not just quarantine at the national level, but the household level,
That was the mask nonsense.
>China boarding up doorways and digging up streets so people couldn't leave.
That is their Maoist "take what is said literally/take the analogy too far" mentality. They literally paint mountains with green oil based and plant fake foliage because they bend and warp the meaning of "be green". "Quarantine" and "Sanitize" to them obviously means "weld everything and send armies of amogus landscape weed sprayers to spray everything in alcohol once in a while". They live in a cyberpunk dystopia, they roleplay it by building fake cities too.

>How would banning immigration have stopped the spread in January 2020 when there was community spread but October 2019? That takes us back to my above point, you would have needed to quarantine at the household level.
You would also have to know the actual origin of the virus, which of course they know/do not know at some points in time, all the time.

>You're simultaneously saying we should go insane and ban all international travel and immigration for eternity, while also complaining that the covid measures were too harsh.
I'm saying that is the only solution to the psychosis we're entertaining right now. Nothing else will which is why they have to lie, charade and abuse anecdotal evidence in the middle ground of those two actual solutions.

>Case in point. You're nuts, dude.
Lockdowns don't work right? So just unlock the door. What's the point right?

>And you loop back from banning all immigration to saying we should have ignored it

Those are ultimately your two choices that would have cease all the retardation/contradiction. But no, instead we paddled against the current with stupid masks, hating mystery science juice 3000 because orange man, then loving it because senile ice-cream man, vax requirements and redefining words. By "we" I mean the morons still buying into the charade.

>>14942297
Every single person with a degree nowadays is a complete retard, no exception, the smart ones don't waste time with university and study shit on their own, and instead of abusing titles they show their work that forwards knowledge.

>>14953519
We can never let them forget what they did. Unless they pay reparations to all unvaxed people no apology will be enough.

>>14952700
>They can lie about anything and there's no punishment.
You mean like all the conspiracy theorists and antivaxxers have been doing for the last 2 years with all their made up claims about mircochips and the vaccines being a method to "depopulate" the planet by killing everyone who took the vaxx? It been 2 years, almost 3. If the vaccine is a depopulation tool, then how come people aren't dropping dead yet?? Two more weeks, amiright?

>>14942297
Because it was an elaborate scheme to get Trump out of office. It was "The Big Lie" in action, and it worked on most people.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
I saw through the bullshit, rarely wore a mask, didn't get vaccinated until I had to for a vacation, met up with friends, got a better paying job, invested a shit-ton in the stock market (basically doubled my net-worth within 2-years), and I still never got sick with Covid, though at some point I did get it and tested positive, but had no symptoms.

>>14953843
More evidence: https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/10/31/leaked-documents-show-dhs-the-fbi-and-social-media-platforms-worked-together-to-stop-debate-on-covid-hunters-laptop-and-election-integrity-n652011
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/
https://www.heritage.org/public-health/commentary/why-are-feds-still-funding-ecohealth-alliance-when-its-covid-19-role
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-105313
https://govtrackinsider.com/fauci-act-would-ban-us-from-funding-in-china-the-medical-research-technique-some-suspect-caused-46985bd9692

>>14953835
No, I think he means like your mass-murdering handlers.

>>14953835
they are not authority or an institution, there is a big difference between someone who exploit his own status to deliberately lie to billions of people and a troll on the internet

>>14953835
It was never about getting people to take a virus that would kill them.
The Pandemic was about getting Trump out of office.
The Pandemic was about destroying small-medium businesses, so that large mega-corps could increase their profits. These are the companies that pay millions for lobbying.
The Pandemic was about getting people to take an annual vaccine that they would have to spend $20-100/shot on. That's HUNDDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars going to big Pharma companies and politicians every year.
Pharma/biotech took a huge hit to their profits after marijuana was legalized. So they needed a "new disease" that everyone required drugs for.
https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/pfizer-set-charge-between-110-and-130-covid-vaccine-when-us-goes-commercial-model
This is why it was a "big lie". All the people who benefited from Covid-19 were at the top, and everyone who disagree was dismissed and called a conspiracy theorist.

>>14953932
Just because you can write a schizo fanfic doesn't make it real.

>>14953932
There are universities that are now requiring students to wear masks if they don't get the annual flu shot. The petite authoritarians aren't going to give up their fun new toys until forced to do so.

>>14953606
>Lockdowns don't work right? So just unlock the door. What's the point right?
You're stating to unlock the door, but that's exactly what the lock downs were in the West, unlocked doors and people doing what they wanted. China "locked" the doors and had some success, but it was only transient. NZ had some success by clamping down on international travel, but once a few cases slipped through, the bottom fell out.

>By "we" I mean the morons still buying into the charade.
Truth be told I bought into it for a few months, but it became apparent fast that the measures weren't working. There was no hope of stopping a virus that had already disseminated across the globe before governments acknowledged it existed. What resulted had little to do with containing the virus and more to do with governments seeing an opportunity to increase their power. COVID-19 as an illness was well understood within a few months, yet measures were taken early on that made no sense (unnecessary intubation, placing the ill in nursing homes, refusal to provide treatment in the first few days of infection, etc).

>>14954300
>but that's exactly what the lock downs were in the West, unlocked doors and people doing what they wanted.
Then they called it a lockdown in name only. No wonder it didn't work.

>China "locked" the doors
Using rudimentary iron working tools for hermetic seals. That is the joke.

>NZ had some success by clamping down on international travel, but once a few cases slipped through, the bottom fell out.
How did they "slip through"? It's an island located right next to Ausch-tralia. Unless they allowed immigration...or the virus actually originated there then there's no way.

>Truth be told I bought into it for a few months, but it became apparent fast that the measures weren't working.
Truth be told, you were a moron for buying into it when they told you what the measures were going to be before they implemented said fail plans.

>There was no hope of stopping a virus that had already disseminated across the globe before governments acknowledged it existed.
"Two more weeks" redefining the word "vaccine" and "herd immunity" was your "hope". These weren't the first red flags, the first was when these companies were greenlit by limp dick lawyers and judges to never be accountable for the stroke poke. Imagine if their product was cigarettes (when they first came out) and they had doctors marketing them as digestive aid.

>What resulted had little to do with containing the virus and more to do with governments seeing an opportunity to increase their power.
"yes".

>COVID-19 as an illness was well understood within a few months,
>yet measures were taken early on that made no sense (unnecessary intubation, placing the ill in nursing homes, refusal to provide treatment in the first few days of infection,
Which is it? Either they lied or they lied. Hence; the two ultimatums are "shut it down" or "ignore it". I'm not shoving a fence-post up my ass for book learned retards who will never admit mistakes let alone take responsibility for the mistakes.

>>14952139
>It's pretty stunning that your sort still stands behind these dead principles

The concept of free speech and free will is: I can make someone do whatever I want by being a tyrant or dictator over them, but really, they should do it because they want to do it, and the result will be more meaningful and sincere. It's like how people confuse evil existing in the world, as God having created evil. God doesn't create evil: we do, by disobeying God, and replacing God with ourselves, and the various horrors and flavors are what follows. Our laughable inability to keep Gods commandements is a reflection and indictment on ourselves, not God.

Free speech theory, as our early American Founding Fathers saw it, is based on having extremely high-quality education, and fear/reverence for God, who is the source of everything. Both concepts are largeley dead in America, so it isn't a surprise that America is dying with it, since our nation was founded on these two principles.

As an American, I personally cannot wait for us to get invaded by some foreign power in my lifetime. I truly do not see any way out of our current mess than scorched earth level warfare. And I'm as pacifist as they come, too. But I don't see any other way, given the current level of philosophical/spiritual discourse in America. It's so low, we can't be bothered to improve it. We simply need wiped out and new people for a clean slate.

>>14953835
>how come people aren't dropping dead yet
They are.

>>14954593
>How did they "slip through"? It's an island located right next to Ausch-tralia. Unless they allowed immigration...or the virus actually originated there then there's no way.
Ask them, clearly people made it through the overseas quarantine while still infected and managed to infect others. Even an island couldn't enforce international travel to the degree that you're suggesting for the entire world. One person slipping through, that's all it takes, and cases can take off like wildfire. A plan isn't good when nothing less than perfection will result in failure.

>Truth be told, you were a moron for buying into it when they told you what the measures were going to be before they implemented said fail plans.
Perhaps, but I'm still smart enough to know your idea is insane and impossible to enact. The right answer was to isolate the elderly and everyone else should keep living. Your suggestions would have been as bad as what we actually got, which was no success at all and crushing the economy in the process.

>Which is it?
It's clearly both. The correct treatment was ignored because the pandemic needed to continue.

>Hence; the two ultimatums are "shut it down" or "ignore it".
China is shutting it down over and over again, and the virus isn't going away.

>>14954928
>Ask them, clearly people made it through the overseas quarantine while still infected and managed to infect others
Maybe it was those people with private jets and private bunkers all over New Zealand.

>Even an island couldn't
No no, "didn't".

>One person slipping through, that's all it takes, and cases can take off like wildfire. A plan isn't good when nothing less than perfection will result in failure.
Ignore it then.

>Perhaps, but I'm still smart enough to know your idea is insane and impossible to enact
What plan would that be? My idea? No, "their idea". This is what they did. Ignoring it is not even a plan.

>Your suggestions would have been as bad as what we actually got,
No because we'd at least have the economy, production and deaths instead of no economy shortages and deaths had we ignored it. Were we self sufficient we wouldn't have to worry about a shutdown. But because we live in fairy tale dualism land where we simultaneously believe we can do the opposite thing at all given times, you get the clusterfuck known as the Covid Pandemic. Now more people are just going to die from privation(shortages, suicides, dehuminization) caused by cock blocking everything for a microscopic particle they had a 99.whatever percent chance of living from.

>It's clearly both. The correct treatment was ignored because the pandemic needed to continue.
So then it's what I said; A psychosis people buy into. So because it it needs to continue, you may as well stop the shutdowns entirely to keep the fear porn going forever. Unfortunately, shutting down things is very convenient for people who want their jobs controlling people to be easier. It also is easy to convince people to do it because it means they get to work from moms home.

>China is shutting it down over and over again,
>and the virus isn't going away.
Alternating current is efficient at polarizing torpid masses.

>>14942297
Bros I got the Vax a year ago and my face has been number for the last week. What do?

>>14955141
Go see a doctor. You may have had a stroke.

>>14955147
From the vax?

>>14955131
>Maybe it was those people with private jets and private bunkers all over New Zealand.
So in other words, an island couldn't enforce proper quarantine of all foreign travelers, but you think it was realistic for every country in the world to do so?

>No no, "didn't".
I'm leaning much more toward couldn't. You're asking for something that's nearly impossible, if not impossible.

>What plan would that be? My idea? No, "their idea". This is what they did. Ignoring it is not even a plan.
Your plan to never have anyone leave their house for...I don't know, eternity? Or at least a few years. That's what it would take. How do you plan to feed everyone, keep industry going, etc?

>No because we'd at least have the economy, production and deaths instead of no economy shortages and deaths had we ignored it.
You keep talking about ignoring it when you're the one who started this argument by claiming that banning all immigration would have solved it. You weren't even talking about immigration it turns out, but migration. And you would have needed to ban it pre-pandemic. Once the virus spread, you would have needed to lock down everything China-style. You would have trashed the economy even more than our shitty politicians did, and the end result would have been what? We can look at NZ and China, who simply kicked their waves of Covid down the road.

Ignoring it is stupid too, it was very deadly for the elderly. Why not just treat it with what we know works? Antibiotics for secondary bacterial pneumonia, steroids in the second week to prevent cytokine storm. Possibly antivirals if they didn't become so polarized, but they're really not necessary. It turns out Covid can be treated in much the same way as other respiratory infections.

>>14955210
>It turns out Covid can be treated in much the same way as other respiratory infections.
Indeed, and we have medical textbooks from the 90's that told us as much. The issue is that everything these days gets polarized and politicized for wealth and power. There's kind of no level we won't stoop to anymore. I've never seen major news networks prey on the collective emotional consciousness of a nation more than during COVID.

>>14955210
>So in other words, an island couldn't enforce proper quarantine of all foreign travelers, but you think it was realistic for every country in the world to do so?
No I don't. But we're not realistic when it comes to tyranny are we?

>I'm leaning much more toward couldn't. You're asking for something that's nearly impossible, if not impossible.
And yet somehow they convinced everyone to go through the measures.

Your plan to never have anyone leave their house for...I don't know, eternity?
>your plan
No. Theirs. They tried to do this. The experts said it would allegedly would work.

>Or at least a few years. That's what it would take. How do you plan to feed everyone, keep industry going, etc?
Hows it working out so far in reality at the current moment? Wait another year and hopefully more countries won't go the way of sri lanka.

>You keep talking about ignoring it when you're the one who started this argument by claiming that banning all immigration would have solved it.
I'm not arguing. I'm describing the two ULTIMATUMS that would work. Ignore it OR ban immigration. It's the only two solutions to the dillema. That's not an argument. It's a described fact.

>You weren't even talking about immigration it turns out, but migration.
Stop with the logomachy. Both imply moving a potentially sickly body across borderlines.

>Once the virus spread, you would have needed to lock down everything China-style. You would have trashed the economy even more than our shitty politicians did, and the end result would have been what? We can look at NZ and China, who simply kicked their waves of Covid down the road.
So please, do not give the book learned retard the greeen light next time.

>Ignoring it is stupid too, it was very deadly for the elderly.
You mean like every other disease that we successfully ignored?

>Why not just treat it with what we know works?
Who is "we"? Not "you" that's who.

>>14955149
Yes.

>>14955282
>You mean like every other disease that we successfully ignored?
I'm not sure what you mean by successful or ignored. Did we ignore the Spanish Flu? Was the deadliest winter in recorded history a success? There's a middle ground between pretending something doesn't exist, and obsessing over its existence. Sort of like, I don't know, testing symptomatic people for COVID-19, giving them proper treatment, and allowing the young to circulate the virus while shielding the elderly. If you ignore it, then the young don't get treated properly and risk long term consequences, the elderly get exposed, etc.

>>14955311
That would require admitting that the proper treatment wasn't invasively ventilating people and then murdering them with opiates and remdesivir (a deadly kidney and liver toxin).

>>14955311
>There's a middle ground between pretending something doesn't exist, and obsessing over its existence.
And there is no middle ground between pretending a phantasm doesn't exist and obsessing over its (apparent) existence. Just chase a shadow, till you're blue in the face.

>Sort of like, I don't know, testing symptomatic people for COVID-19, giving them proper treatment, and allowing the young to circulate the virus while shielding the elderly. If you ignore it, then the young don't get treated properly and risk long term consequences, the elderly get exposed, etc.

You have an "immune system" for the purposes of doing all of the above, only better. Literally ignore it, let nature do the thinking. A bit too much to ask the pedantic hypochondriac though, to simply do nothing and shut the fuck up about their weenie problems.

>If you ignore it, then the young don't get treated properly and risk long term consequences, the elderly get exposed, etc.
Yes yes and a million other things I'm sure you can think of as an excuse to literally kill me with your kindness. Just keep repeating history.

>>14955141
>>14955149
Assuming you aren't joking, you should definitely see a doctor, and yes it's possible it's from the vaxx, but also it could be from something else.

>>14950761
where do you get these absurd numbers
here's a study with link to the paper

https://en.ssi.dk/news/news/2022/covid-19-vaccination-did-not-deteriorate-physical-mental-or-cognitive-health

>>14955348
Why do you still believe those lies?

>>14955350
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4231237

click on the 'open pdf in browser'

this is the first study of its kind and denmark is well known for its very good register data

:)

https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=775083081114002114014070095080015125047041073000033030103008039038106044108075092047037092086001109118088015085075036119007088045051097079015077060123103019076059017010076086064038104020069019014032035109089050049009003070108019003069089002009019019116001101097122110127125080113002005101017&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE

not saying this study is the gospel but will anti-vaxxtards and that youtube nurse cover it. I doubt it :/

>>14955373
Japan and South Korea reported the same things. This is a purely US problem because their minds are broken by politics.

>>14955382
The Japs didn't even vax, they used ivermectin locally and lied. They sent back Moderna shots for having metal in them.

>>14955334
Ok, I got two shots. How fucked am I? I either hear death or nothing. With heart disease sometimes mixed in.

>>14955390
Every shot causes heart damage, it's just luck whether it progresses to deadly heart damage or not. Get your troponin levels checked.

>>14955391
This doesn't seem right. I got two shots (fuck the boosters) 18 months ago and my RHR, HRV, and blood pressure are all immaculate.

>>14955391
>it's just luck
Well fuck. Looks like I better start hunting rabbits
>test
I'm poor right now. Will probably have to wait a little while before going to the doctor.

>>14955389

>>14955399
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/japan-finds-stainless-steel-particles-suspended-doses-moderna-vaccine-2021-09-01/

>>14955392
Maybe you got the control.

>>14955401
Any way to tell? Is it by lot number?

>>14955382
>This is a purely US problem because their minds are broken by politics.
Or because they're the only country without "free" health care. They have the rights to their own medical paper expurgations so it makes it harder to fudge.

>>14955402
>Any way to tell? Is it by lot number?
Time...

asking here as you anons would probably give some okay advice, i tested positive for covid today and i am extremely clammy & have cold sweats. don't have a cough, still have my taste & smell though, so should i continue working out or not? wouldn't be trying to push my records or anything.

>>14955402
Yes, check your lot number against the lot numbers with anomalously high death and side effect rates. There should be a publicly compiled database showing which lot numbers are the deadly ones, but I forget the website it's hosted on.

>>14955407
If you feel tired, rest. Eat good food and don't overstress yourself. Treat it like any bad flu and you'll be fine in a few days or a week.

>>14955414
I found this
https://www.howbadismybatch.com/index.html

According to this dose 1 was 4.4% severe reports and 1.3% deaths, dose 2 was 5.1% severe and 1.1% deaths.

>>14955433
That's about average I think. It's still fucked but you might squeak by as long as you don't take any more. The risk is cumulative.

>>14955433
Out of 479 pages, my shot ranks page 3 on adverse reaction reports, page 7 on severe reports and page 6 on lethality. Makes sense. It's in the top end but thankfully not in the skyrocketing top killers.

>>14942297

Chadrillard DID warn you.

>>14950362
Gosh, i thought post on /sci/ would be better. Go back to wherever you come from, filthy plebeian.

>>14945379
>if SARS had infected hundreds of millions of people globally, would you expect restrictions to be implemented globally?
No that is my whole point.
You keep equating COVID 19 with the early 2000s SARS 1 epidemic. They were different events on a totally different scale. If SARS had reached the level of a global pandemic it would have been retarded to implement global quarantines. You also keep claiming that they use "lockdowns" for the first SARS epidemic, but they didn't. The concept didn't even exist at the time - it was made up during the COVID-19 pandemic. During the first SARS epidemic they had quarantines and regional travel restriction, but there was no coordinated international effort to implement "lockdowns".

>>14955314
Well yeah, but they needed the dead bodies to keep the pandemic rolling.

>>14955327
>You have an "immune system" for the purposes of doing all of the above, only better.
Congrats if you're in stellar health. Not everyone is. You're basically saying let the weak die with no assistance. Would you mind if I infected you with rabies or anthrax? You should be fine, you have an immune system after all. Do you also discourage antibiotic use for any infection? Do you believe wounds shouldn't be disinfected? Broken legs should reset themselves?

>Yes yes and a million other things I'm sure you can think of as an excuse to literally kill me with your kindness. Just keep repeating history.
Says the person who wants everyone to live like North Korea.

>>14956450
>Congrats if you're in stellar health.
Thanks. All it takes is some cheap zinc and vitamin C tablets.

>Not everyone is.
Well stop staying up so late, eating goyslop and smoking weed all the time. Also stop going to the doctor for treatments to problems they gave you in the first place.

>You're basically saying let the weak die with no assistance.
I'm telling you that ultimately is what happens no matter what and the government is going to do nothing but list you as a statistic. All the healthcare in the world is never going to make a weenie into a man. Just like all the free dental plans in the world still can't make the British have proper teeth.

>Would you mind if I infected you with rabies or anthrax?
The federal government would certainly mind if you were actively spreading those on purpose and I too would. Again "on purpose", if your asymptomatic then "oh well". Living with your philosophy also means dying with it, and I'm not about to inconvenience everybody else so I can roleplay as a hypochondriac

>You should be fine, you have an immune system after all.
Yeah.Too bad about those who fried theirs with experimental serums and other drugs that are specifically for such a purpose.

>Do you also discourage antibiotic use for any infection?
Like doctors yeah. Or at least they don't want you getting dependent/tolerant of them because then that would be even worse than just having an immune system.

>Do you believe wounds shouldn't be disinfected?
Are we now going to make false comparisons between vaccines and disinfectants? Should I inject bleach like orange man "said"? You do realize cleanliness/disinfections are preventative and further prove the uselessness of antibiotics/vaccines right? How do you suppose Europe got over the black plaugue? Where was their vaccine? Burning in the various herbs in the leather bird mask?

>Broken legs should reset themselves?
So a splint is now comparable to antibiotics/immune system? Can we stay on topic?

>>14956946
>Well stop staying up so late, eating goyslop and smoking weed all the time.
Three strikes for me personally, my health is fine. Do you think the average 70 year old will magically be healthy with this advice?

>The federal government would certainly mind if you were actively spreading those on purpose and I too would.
Why would it bother you? You just said yourself you have an immune system that can handle anything.

>Like doctors yeah. Or at least they don't want you getting dependent/tolerant of them because then that would be even worse than just having an immune system.
You didn't answer the question.

>Are we now going to make false comparisons between vaccines and disinfectants?
No one said anything about a vaccine. I specifically mentioned antibiotics and steroids during an infection, to which you responded no one should use anything but their own immune system.

>You do realize cleanliness/disinfections are preventative and further prove the uselessness of antibiotics/vaccines right?
Why would you need to prevent anything when you said you have an immune system? Can't your own body stop the infection from forming?

>How do you suppose Europe got over the black plaugue?
I believe many people died, and the plague still exists.

>So a splint is now comparable to antibiotics/immune system? Can we stay on topic?
Other animals heal from broken bones, why should you need to be splinted?

>>14956946
>Can we stay on topic?
Sure, so feel free to stop bringing up vaccines and Trump. This all started over your goofy premise that the virus could have been eradicated if only the entire world had gone N. Korea style and banned all travel. You then switched to "actually we should have ignored it" and we're now at the point where you're saying no one should take any kind of medication for an infection and should rely only on their immune system. You're a crack pot.

>>14952858
>cured me in 48 hours.
Not doing anything usually results in a "cure" to the Flu strains and other acute respiratory infections within that time frame. Is called an immune system.

>>14953519
>guys we're sowwy pls no bully
>>14953519
Fuck that noise. There needs to be tribunal trials and public executions! People won't be happy until there are.

The proposed antivax goal post:
Prove that COVID could be eliminated

Actual goalpost:
Lockdowns slowed the spread and saved lives, which they did

>>14957085
>Lockdowns slowed the spread and saved lives, which they did
No, science and statistics proved it made things worse and cost more lives due to the lockdowns.

But you already knew that.

>>14957098
I highly doubt if you managed to reference an actual source you could make sense of it, given your unreasonably biased and assumptive demeanor. Those are characteristics of keyboard warriors typing to justify their identity politics.

>>14957108
>I consulted a thesaurus when typing my ESL retort that I am oh so sure is a crushing one to Americans.

>>14957118
kek

>>14957074
>Not doing anything usually results in a "cure" to the Flu strains and other acute respiratory infections within that time frame.
Average length of infection is 5-7 days.

>>14957085
>Lockdowns slowed the spread and saved lives, which they did
Countries that didn't lock down seemed to do okay. The USA specifically thought it was a great idea to shove the infected into nursing homes, which resulted in an absurd rate of elderly deaths.

>>14957231
>The Democrats specifically thought it was a great idea to shove the infected into nursing homes, which resulted in an absurd rate of elderly deaths.
FIFY.
Those numbers weren't going to pump themselves up with a .5% overall death rate, so they made it happen.

>>14957228
>infection is 5-7 days.
so you admit didn't get "cured" in 2 days as you claimed. You simply lost the "symptoms". Learn some basic medicine.

>>14957255
>so you admit
I'm not the anon who claimed to have the flu, I'm telling you that 48 hours is not in the range of an average flu infection.

>didn't get "cured" in 2 days as you claimed.
If it's a cure, then it would presumably shorten the infection, yeah?

>>14957250
Yeah, Cuomo is a huge piece of shit, and Fauci was touting NYC as an example to follow.

>>14957306
The fact that Cuomo has not been tried in a court of law, sentenced, and publicly executed by firing squad yet, is just a sickening example of the failure of the judicial system in the USA.

>>14957118
>>14957108
>I consulted a thesaurus when typing my ESL
I got this impression too when he used the word 'demeanor', which by definition denotes a physical characteristic we observe in someone. But all of our interaction here is virtual: We can't see eachother. So, how could he possibly note ones demeanor? He can't. Therefore, he used demeanor incorrectly, and has ruined the sanctity of the English language as a whole for doing so (unironically).

>>14953438
Seems to be an internal problem:
https://twitter.com/retractionwatch
And yes, this is now one of the most important academic sites, as journals have failed in their moral duties.

>>14957334
Chink bots and their Democrat human slaves are not very bright. They tend to repeat themselves due to simple programming. Their talking points are all collective and unoriginal.

As the saying goes, the left cannot meme, or do much of anything really.

>>14957030
>Three strikes for me personally, my health is fine
You have till 30-40, just warning ya. Not to live, just to start feeling the effects.

>Do you think the average 70 year old will magically be healthy with this advice?
Not staying up late eating garbage and smoking weed? Demonstrably yes.

>You didn't answer the question.
>Like doctors yeah.
"Yes"

>No one said anything about a vaccine.
Well I'm glad we're not making false comparisons about the vaccine then.

>I specifically mentioned antibiotics and steroids during an infection, to which you responded no one should use anything but their own immune system.
Ideally if you're healthy, yes. If you get injured to such an extent that you can't even support your own functioning and will to live then no, don't get magical good boy points for being a retard who doesn't know how to operate their own skeleton properly. You get liberated like every other creature on this planet. If you want to pay for your own weenie-hut jr. wraps to assist you in your frail husk form then whatever.

>Why would you need to prevent anything when you said you have an immune system? Can't your own body stop the infection from forming?
Indeed, the list of psychosis human beings have developed due to medical consumerism. I could go on and on and on but lets stick to one.
>I believe many people died, and the plague still exists.
See!

>Other animals heal from broken bones, why should you need to be splinted?
You're not even wrong.

>>14957039
>Can we stay on topic?
>top bringing up vaccines and Trump
>The man responsible for Operation Warp Speed
Yeah nah.
>premise
Scientific fact (because it would literally be impossible for it to spread).

>>14957074
Shit you're right! The drugs really didn't cure me. I guess what I meant was "cured me from vomiting constantly and being bedridden for days". The book learned wanted me back at public daycare for wagies and the homework was stacking up so I had to speed up the process.

>>14957405
>"cured me from vomiting constantly and being bedridden for days"
called "symptoms". Basically you are claiming Pepto and aspirin "cured you". KEK!

>>14957405
>Not staying up late eating garbage and smoking weed? Demonstrably yes.
Demonstrably false because I have grandparents who do none of those things, and they're still nowhere near the health of a young adult.

>"Yes"
No, that's not answering the question. Would you, not some doctor, you, use an antibiotic for a severe infection like sepsis? If so, why would you do that when you have your immune system?

>Ideally if you're healthy, yes.
I wasn't asking about an ideal situation. If you're sick as hell, then obviously it's not ideal. Should a person who is old or unhealthy (for whatever reason) be able to medicate to help their condition, or are you saying they should just die?

>If you get injured to such an extent that you can't even support your own functioning and will to live then no
Okay, so you're saying no to all medical treatment that you can't heal on your own. I hope you've never taken an antibiotic in your life, never used rubbing alcohol or H2O2 on a wound, otherwise you're being a hypocrite. I also hope you'll never ever use those things moving forward. Live the way you claim. My guess if you're ever in a dire situation is you'll decide that allowing yourself to die or suffer is stupid when treatment is available.

>Scientific fact (because it would literally be impossible for it to spread).
And it's a scientific fact that if I won the powerball lottery I'd have a lot of money, but *if* doesn't amount to anything. Unfortunately I would have to actually win the lottery, and you'd have to figure out how to actually lock down 7.8 billion people. Even N. Korea still had cases, yet you think it's a viable plan for the entire planet.

>>14957405
>I guess what I meant was "cured me from vomiting constantly and being bedridden for days".
Wait, you're the anon who was treated for the flu? What's all this bullshit about relying on your immune system when you already pussed out over a case of the flu? I now no longer take anything you say seriously.

>>14957466
>called "symptoms". Basically you are claiming Pepto and aspirin "cured you".
Well at least we're in agreement with everything being pointless in regards to a functioning immune system. That is if you're the same Dick Tracy anon I'm replying to.

>>14957470
>Demonstrably false because I have grandparents who do none of those things, and they're still nowhere near the health of a young adult.
Well I'm sorry your grandparents (and by proxy you) rolled genetic snake eyes.

>No, that's not answering the question.
I have said/admitted "yes" twice now. Do you have dyslexia or something?

>Would you, not some doctor, you, use an antibiotic for a severe infection like sepsis?
Now you have changed the form of the question so I'll change the form of the answer I already gave to you twice now. First of all: Sepsis is not an infection, its the extreme response to an infection. Second, no I wouldn't. Tough shit, but it beats dying surrounded by airheads with scrubs on waking me up constantly to make sure I'm dead already.

>Should a person who is old or unhealthy be able to medicate to help their condition, or are you saying they should just die?
I don't care what they do so long as I have no part in it

>I hope you've never taken an antibiotic in your life, never used rubbing alcohol or H2O2 on a wound, otherwise you're being a hypocrite.
Never, other than the one time I was a retarded kid who was forced to attend a place that loves the same mentality as you.

>I also hope you'll never ever use those things moving forward.
>Live the way you claim.
It's like you're the voice in my head

>if you're ever in a dire situation is you'll decide that allowing yourself to die or suffer is stupid when treatment is available.
I would rather die than be killed with kindness.

>>14957471
>What's all this bullshit about relying on your immune system
Well, as it turns out I was right.

>I now no longer take anything you say seriously.
Welcome to 4chan, you're here forever.

>>14957557
>Well I'm sorry your grandparents (and by proxy you) rolled genetic snake eyes.
Is this post you or not? >>14952858

>>14957470
>>14957557
2/2
Also:
>Even N. Korea still had cases
Again, because they didn't actually fully lockdown. They let the usual basketball americans and tourists come in and out to visit and even still organized crowds from miles around to pretend to be genuinely "just chilling here as usual here in this fake city! So nice to see tourist must thank dear leader for your wondrous arrival!" type of brainwashing. It's just that they still have some of the lowest case numbers because *lol noramlly lockdowned tyrannical country. They shoot their immigrants, almost more than they shoot their citizens.
>>14957571
>Is this post you or not?
It's now (you)'d as far as I'm concerned.

>>14957587
>It's now (you)'d as far as I'm concerned.
If that's you, then where do you get off talking about working immune systems when you needed treatment for the flu as a teenager? Do you regret your choice and wish you had died? You should have died, you obviously have inferior genetics.

>>14957334
You had me questioning the definition of demeanor for a moment, but then I googled it and realized you have a retarded demeanor

>>14957231
Another "factual" claim with no source
Probably just thinking correlation is causation

>>14957306

>>14957623
>If that's you, then where do you get off talking about working immune systems when you needed treatment for the flu as a teenager?
>These expressed opinions are solely mine
Besides, as anon explained earlier it really didn't cure me. It was a mistake to call it a "cure" on my part. It treated the symptoms.

>Do you regret your choice
Yes, however I technically didn't have a choice in the matter either. It was either I decide or listen to bitching and then taken to the doctor by my parents. That sounds like a cope but now that I can actually choose and take off those days and recover on my own I haven't been to one since. As it was that was literally the only time I can remember going to a doctor.

>and wish you had died?
at times but what does that have to do with anything?

>You should have died
>you obviously have inferior genetics.
Probably, but you don't see me shutting down the economy and making you pay for my healthcare for my dysgenics and stupid choices in life. There is nothing more pathetic then a dependent burden begging to be treated.

>>14957639
Source: Swedish health minister Anders Tegnell, world-renowned epidemiologist.

>>14957639
Sweden is an easy example. All of Africa. Japan.

>>14957702
>Probably, but you don't see me shutting down the economy and making you pay for my healthcare for my dysgenics and stupid choices in life.
You don't see me recommending that either. I recommended simple treatment to prevent complicated cases and that was it, and then you went to the extreme, which seems to be your habit. Do nothing or set up the most totalitarian response in history. Forego all medical treatment regardless of risk or health status.

>at times but what does that have to do with anything?
Well if you refused treatment you may have died, and then I wouldn't have to listen to your ridiculous ideas.

>>14957719
>and then you went to the extreme, which seems to be your habit.
The ultimatum is all that matters. Why bullshit yourself through middle-men?

>Do nothing or set up the most totalitarian response in history.
"Live free or die"

>Forego all medical treatment regardless of risk or health status.
As opposed to excess in "medical treatment" regardless of its risk or the individuals health status? Like I said, I would rather die than be killed with kindness.

>Well if you refused treatment you may have died,
Yeah

>and then I wouldn't have to listen to your ridiculous ideas.
Exactly!

>>14957381
If only worthless lib-things could sustain selve in way other than stealing from Skaven. Then Skaven wouldn't have to make lib-thing DIE-DIE!