/sci/ - Science & Math

People cheat all the time but they usually don't get caught

>>14820236
Yes, scientists and intellectuals have always been whores who sell themselves for money, just like politicians.

>>14820236
>plagiarizing someone's dissertation
nah that's personal
that's the document that PROVES you're worthy of having the title of PhD, kind of a scummy move to pass stuff off from someone's dissertation as your own work
desu i usually dont give a fuck about plagiarism but that's someone's culmination of all their hard years at grad school. reddit OP can get bent

>>14820254
I work as a data analyst intern and I'm amazed by how much people are willing to ignore data that doesn't fit their agenda.
I will bet that for every example in your image, there was enough data to show how bad those things were, but people ignored it

>>14820297
what should be done about that?

contradicting studies do not bring in the cash

>>14820236
Isn't the whole point of a dissertation to prove that you know what you're doing?

>>14820297
How is your job? Do you know of any interns for undergrads?

>>14820236
How do you plagiarize a PhD disseration chapter? Isn't it supposed to be new material?

>>14820249
This.

>>14820236
Cheating is one thing - I strongly discourage it in my own classes, partly because it reflects poorly on me, my department, and my university when someone who cheats is given passing marks on an assignment, but mostly because flagrant cheating discourages all the students making an actual effort in the class.

Plagiarizing part of your fucking dissertation? Oh no that is a WHOLE 'nother level of fucked. You're not only cheating on the original work that's supposed to define and justify your graduate career, but you're destroying any chance of ever having a career in research because that shit will define your reputation going forward.

People who cast blame for their infections on inanimate objects - such as innocent non-thinking chemicals - are people who plan to repeat the same offense at a later time using a similar excuse. Easy to tell that your picrel plans to reoffend because it is already planning/hoping to keep future colleagues in the dark about their true past and history. Someone who does not plan to reoffend would not care if their cohorts were suspicious of them, honest people have no dirty secrets to hide.

>>14820297
t. poltard schizo larping as a "data scientist" in order to make his skepticism of science a veneer of legitimacy and intellectual respectability

>>14821139
What? No it's not uncommon sadly. There are a lot of ways to skin a cow. I'm a government wagie and have seen it myself, projects with a lot of money attached (think 100 million dollar contracts) tend to fudge data more, the ones with less money and contracts tend to be much more careful in their analysis.

I mean it makes sense, there's a shit ton of pressure on the analysis of big projects with a lot of money involved. You basically make or break decisions a lot of the time and typically decision makers want the analysis done very fast for these projects because collecting data tends to take a very long time. When you weigh in the pressure of your career, your bosses and the fact that your analysis affects decisions for funding of your OWN organization, it gets real messy real fast. That doesn't even encapsulate any relationships you may have with contractors.

It's why I tend to avoid system level analysis of these sorts of projects.

>>14820254
Mercury does actually cure syphilis
It just also gives you mercury poisoning

>>14821120
I agree, this is the same as someone who's research is found to be faked. They're forever tainted. It's the end of a career.

>>14821513
>. It's the end of a career.
I can disprove that statement mathematically, the number of irreproducible publications far, far outstrips the number of people who call themselves scientists that are publishing that garbage. which means that fakery and lying does not taint or end careers. quite the opposite, the peer review system just gets people to agree with the lies in exchange for cash, it encourages dishonesty and protects the dishonest and that class of individual not makes up the overwhelming majority of people who call themselves scientists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

>>14820236
Paul Revere was a plagiarist. Does anyone care?

>>14821583
So there's a list of irreproducible publications? And finding that a study isn't reproducible is equivalent to finding that it was intentionally faked?

>>14820236
I feel like it's more serious for PhD programs where you actually need to know the stuff super well, high school, regular college sure it doesn't really matter that much, but like the whole point of cheating is so you can actually get to something worth learning and putting effort into, with a PhD program falling into such category

>>14821604
The scientific method demands reproducibility, any publication which circumvents that requirement had been intentionally faked. They would not be circumventing the scientific method if they had genuine information to convey, circumventing the scientific method is only done for the purpose of presenting falsehoods as genuine science.

My schools newspaper (small private university in the northeast) did an anonymous study and found over 90% of students cheated at least once during COVID and remote classes

Tbh, every answer for every rest in EVERY CLASS IMAGINABLE can be found on quizlet or chegg. Copy and paste the question into your browser and boom you will get As on HW and quizzes

>>14821727
in 10 years those same kids are going to be calling themselves doctors and acting all upset about people who don't trust their superior knowledge and wisdom even though they cheated their ways through school and never learned a thing.
>reeeeeee u must repsect muh transparently fraudulent university credentials!!!!
>daddy paid a lot of money for those!!

>>14820236
I mean you are le shameful but u gotta keep doing you. Yeah, sometimes people just don't give up and they should. But, that will some day be nothing. If you can keep going, and can get a job, and then another job, nobody else will ever know

>>14821758
nope, people already know. if it lands a job under false pretenses then that just opens them up to blackmail by their previous colleagues. you can't hide from or outrun a history like that these days.

>>14821727
>tfw have to write new questions for every homework, quiz, and exam for every class every single semester because the little faggots won't stop posting shit on chegg... even though I make different versions for every student and they get caught every fucking time)
I've struggled to find time for research or outreach or anything else since I started teaching because every single semester I essentially have to build every class from scratch again.

I remember that first Fall I put so much heart and soul into the class creating really clever and unique problems for every chapter and 90% of them were online by the end of the semester so I can't use any of them ever again because the faggots running the cheater sites won't take shit down and the university admins don't want to risk the PR of filing legal action against them.

>>14821648
OK, so you claim they are equivalent. We can go with that for now. Do you have an example of a paper that is proven to be irreproducible with no effect on the career of the author(s)?

>>14821753
Damn look at all that butthurt. People have been stupid for forever. It's not okay but it is what it is. Initially, everyone is stupid. If you're not exposed to shit, you're just gonna be a blankface idiot unless you have the initiative and some way to expose yourself. The 20th century was complicated but mindnumbingly retarded. The tv when it was invented it was said this could be greatest or worst invention ever. See and hear anything anywhere. But, misused is full of fuck. We've had so many wars and issues the last 20 years because of the last century. Every next generation is going to be fucked. I was class of 09 and I was constantly saying soon, kids are just going to start killing each other, bc we are at that point, bc everyone and everything is stupid and crazy and nothing even matters. Kids don't even learn, don't touch the hot stove. Kids used to learn about pain pretty quick. Now, we have kids killing kids, and they look confused half the time. And the other half are people, just like people from 100 years ago, but even though they are young, they know shit is fucked, and it drives them to racism, bc at least racists are clamoring to make america great again

>>14821783
The guy who discovered beta-amyloid plaques was just given a multi-million-dollar grant by the government despite his research being proven fraudulent.

>>14821783
The current president of the USA was busted for plagiarism without any negative consequences for his career prospects

>>14821795
What's his name?

>>14821811
Sylvain Lesne. A big expose about him came out in Science last month.

https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease

>>14821829
It says the UNM is reviewing the complaints still in that article. Do we know the outcome of their investigation? It's too early to say what effect this will have on his career. So how do you know he isn't finished?

>>14821854
Well the allegations aren't new. He's been accused of this for a long time with proof, but only now that Science published it is there public outcry that might force them to stop dragging their feet (it's doubtful they will do anything though).

>>14821854
BTW the guy who gave him the grant is a co-author on one of his disputed (fraudulent) papers.

>>14821783
he had to apologize, but not that thats out of the way, the science faker has all been swept under the rug.
can you believe that there were idiots out there stupid enough to have fallen for it? lmaooooo!!

>>14821329
This here; also asbestos is great insulator, albeit with significant safety concerns as well.

>>14821854
>It says the UNM is reviewing the complaints still in that article. Do we know the outcome of their investigation? It's too early to say what effect this will have on his career. So how do you know he isn't finished?
Anon...
There has been a LOT of lying, stealing, cheating, and grifting that's been going on for decades...

>>14820254
If novocaine was not invented, cocaine might still be common as a medication.

>>14820254
It's another "a handful of scientists on the payrolls of companies said something and even though literally every other scientist at the time was calling it bullshit it's still treated as the consensus view decades later" episode.

>>14821863
If anything gives ammo to flat earth/fake space guys it's stuff like this. Normies will believe anything an "expert" says, even if it looks retarded.

>>14820249
Retraction Watch is working flat out to catch them, but they focus on life sciences. It is probably equally bad in other fields.

>>14821059
NTA but once people are caught, they have to go, and the people (such as co authors) who should have caught the fraud earlier should also pay for their omissions. universities tend to protect the frauds for many reasons, also they have to be punished, brutally.

>>14822423

>>14821604
>And finding that a study isn't reproducible is equivalent to finding that it was intentionally faked?
How can it not be outright fraud? If you are a scientist, and not just play one on TV, you are supposed to conduct the experiments with a minimum of rogor, such as verifying by replication and checking the statistics. The replication crisis is a horror story few understand the enormity of.

>>14821783
>no effect on the career of the author(s)?
In today's headlines:
https://retractionwatch.com/2022/09/03/nobel-prize-winner-gregg-semenza-retracts-four-papers/

Why are all the frauds in medicine or biology? That's where the money is I guess.

>>14823992
birds of a feather flock together
semenza a former associate of naoki mori
https://web.archive.org/web/20120130043645/http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/01/japanese-virologist-loses-job.html

mori's 10 year publication ban ended recently

>>14823995
They are everywhere, don't forget Schön and his mega fraud in solid state physics. Several more careers should have been tanked, it is a miracle they escaped.
Retraction watch follows mostly life sciences, hopefully others will cover other fields.
They did a little about climate research, again a case where people escaped easily with no impact to their careers.

>>14820236
I have never, in all my academic days, cheated. I can't stand anybody who does.

>>14824182
Schön had his doctoral degree revoked, that's hardly equivalent to the people getting away with fraud in medicine.

>>14820236
MLK did

>>14820254
How do you know any of those are false? You aren't following the current corrupt consensus are you?

>>14821727
To be fair, zoom class during covid was dogshit and hardly anyone learned shit. We all just kept filing the paperwork so the teachers could pretend they taught us so society could pretend it still functioned correctly.

>>14824182
Cringe. Theres literally nothing wrong with climate research. Retractionwatch and academia in general will go after people who publish papers where the graphs essentially say the same things (essentially researchers trying to produce filler by repeating slightly altered figures) then they'd go after climate scientists producing actual fraudulent data. This is your brain on Fox news.

>>14824182
>They did a little about climate research, again a case where people escaped easily with no impact to their careers.
There's really no saving climate science at this point. It's not science at all. I'd be curious to know if they highlighted any of the bogus studies by Mann and co. though.

>>14824241

>>14824258
It's so fucking tiering.

>>14824188

>>14824195
His co-authors kept their jobs. They should all have been kicked out.

>>14824246
>Theres literally nothing wrong with climate research.
So, when is the North Pole melting then?

>>14824256
>I'd be curious to know if they highlighted any of the bogus studies by Mann and co. though.
Yes, Mann does indeed appear on Retraction Watch.

>>14820236
Lmao look at this loser he got vac banned irl
Now he is branded for life

>>14820236
Was Lance Armstrong's doping to win the tour de france that bad?

people cheat all the time...

>>14821753
I don't believe that image at all. We've just gotten old and are no longer with it so we don't know what shit defines them. It happened to those before us and it'll happen to the zoomzooms too.
Surely there's some zoomers here who could say what defines their generation.

>>14821863
>>14822677
The guy who posted that did it tongue-in-cheek to make fun of people who believe anything some random with a science title on twitter says.
People SHOULD be embarrassed for falling for it and he shouldn't have had to apologise for anything.

>>14821782
It don't get why this is your problem. Mix and match over three years worth of content to not make it too easy and that's it. Cheaters are going to find a way anyway. This is what I used to do when is was still in academia.

If you really don't like it only grade in class exams. If someone us capable of cheating thought this type of exam this person deserve to pass because they will be able to cheat through the rest of their life.

No, in the industry you are mostly ripping off computer programs so it is barely an impact.

>>14823980
You clearly haven't worked in academia before?
The current dynamic in academia is that you should publish at least a first author paper a year. So in fields where proof is hard like biology or psychology you can miss are lot of thing just because you cannot afford to work on large samples or do extensive side checks. Statistics will not save you on that. Add to that that mist peoples in those fields are not the best statistician.
Another problem is that right now most research is done by PhD or even master student because now apparently every master thesis needs to be a paper. Supervisor are too busy to check the work in details so error can easily happen especially at the beginning.

>>14825335
Alright, what if you're hard-headed and don't fall in line and couldn't give a fuck about the prestige/money? Are there still bastions of non-faggotry that do research instead of cooming to papers and vanity?

>>14821114
Could have been the literature review. That could easily be stolen from someone doing related research.

>>14825337
Then you don't get funding and never get a position after your first two postdoc because no agency will pay you to spend ten years on a paper and professor will not renew you contract if you refuse to publish.

It might work tho. That is what a recent Nobel price did but it was mostly luck that he managed to succeed and had an absolutely shitty personal life for more than 10 years after his PhD.

I am out of academia so I don't care.

>>14821114
Some stuff in a PhD never get publish an nobody read thesis. It is a stupid move because modern plagiarism detection software are very good at picking that.

Hell I had a colleague who got a paper rejected because I copy-pasted the method section from a previous paper and the plagiarism software of the publisher caught it.

>>14820236
Cheaters deserve what's coming.
Just do poorly next time. Well, I guess if life works out justly there will be no next time.

>>14825337
You seem to fail to realise that academia is a job and not a sacerdotal. You are evaluated on metrics and those metrics are your research output.

If you really want to do whatever you want you just be rich and fund you own research. I know a professor in Istanbul that does that. Being from Turkish nobility has its perks.

>>14823980
Mong. 'Checking the statistics' isn't going to demonstrate that the effect you've 'discovered' isn't spurious. The reproducibility crisis is caused by a publication bias against boring results that don't reveal anything interesting.
If you have thousands of research teams around the world investigating ideas, some of them are going to generate results that look statistically significant by sheer chance, even if all their ideas are wrong. Those chance successes are preferentially selected for publication. And then you have a literature filled with spurious findings that cannot be replicated, all without anyone cheating or lying.

>>14825377
This guy gets s it.
Also there is a bias in published literature toward positive results which further aggravate this effect because it is impossible to publish negative results in the current system.

>>14825369
>You seem to fail to realise that academia is a job
This line of thinking doesn't sit well with me and never will, it carries the same feeling of people who used that as an excuse for why they took the jab even though they didn't want to. Just because it's a "job", doesn't mean that you can't excell at it and have to religate yourself as a soulless cog in a machine.

Also anon, do you realize the fucking irony in this statement, fucking kek.
>not a sacerdotal.
Look at the past 2 years and the way academia presents itself.
>>14825349
I'll just manage in industry then, if it's as pozzed as you anons present it as, I know some based people in industry at least.

>>14821600
Paul Revere? the silversmith?

>>14821782
Change the wording of your problems. Mess up units. This usually does the trick with cheaters. They can't think.
Oh and don't give out solutions. If your tasks are super difficult they might share them but they won't be able to solve them.
And those who managed to prepare on their own and solve them deserve to pass anyway

>>14824241
Virtually all educators thought the Zoom classes were fucking retarded, but it was the only shit they'd allow us to do and basically expected everyone to figure that shit out on there own and supply our own equipment and content.

The saddest thing I ever experienced during lockdowns was having to walk a 60-year-old prof through buying a webcam and setting up Zoom so he could desperately try to do physics demos in front of a bunch of students in Zoom - 90% of whom had their cameras off and were just logging in to get their attendance points.

Almost everyone hates doing online classes.

when you steal from one paper, it's plagiarism. when you steal from every paper, it's background.

>>14825873
Background also generally implies you're giving the people who's stuff you're referencing their due by citing their work.

>>14825236
>Yes, Mann does indeed appear on Retraction Watch.
They backhandedly mention he lost his lawsuit lmao. I love these guys.

>>14820236
If you get to a PhD program then you should be well aware of what the consequences of copying an entire part of someone’s dissertation are. I think much of academic dishonesty is a meme but plagiarism is definitely an exception, and for a good reason.
>>14825337
Do you honestly think you’re getting anywhere at all in research just for the sake of researching? That someone is just going to throw money at you so you can twiddle around with a microscope? Use your fucking head anon.

>>14821782
Kek profcuck gets btfo by obstinate zoomzooms

>>14825335
>You clearly haven't worked in academia before?
I have. After I did my PhD, I did two rounds of postdoc in different countries.
>The current dynamic in academia is that you should publish at least a first author paper a year.
Publish or perish is by no means a new phenomenon.
>So in fields where proof is hard like biology or psychology you can miss are lot of thing just because you cannot afford to work on large samples or do extensive side checks.
Your use of the word "proof" is rather telling.
>Statistics will not save you on that. Add to that that mist peoples in those fields are not the best statistician.
Those are still not valid excuses. Yes, it is hard, but negative results also have a place, if only on arXiv only. Not everyone has to publish exclusively in Science or Nature.
>Another problem is that right now most research is done by PhD or even master student because now apparently every master thesis needs to be a paper. Supervisor are too busy to check the work in details so error can easily happen especially at the beginning.
The fact that a supervisor has to supervise should not be unexpected. If the PhD student starts pumping out fraud, the supervisor has to catch it, if not his career has to go down too. After all he was very happy to add his name to a paper he hardly contributed to.

>>14821782
I hate to say this but why is it your problem if they cheat? They're paying your salary with money they'll never earn back if they're that stupid.

>>14826170
lmao when ppl cheat in ur class to get a good grade, but learn nothing and then suffer no consequences whatsoever for their laziness and trickery.
i guess the class ur teaching isn't even slightly important, none of the info in it is worth knowing, all completely unnecessary, a total waste

>>14820236
never cheated in my academic life, even though I used to cheat all the time in highschool.
when in academia you pretty much signed up for the coursework on your own, so if you don't study and end up cheating to make up for it, you're making terrible life choices.
You'll come out of school in debt unable to get hired anywhere because you barely learned anything, it doesn't make sense.

>muh drugs!!
>muh mental health!!

You're lazy liar and a cheat that was using state/public funding to coast by for a useless Mickey Mouse degree

this is emblematic of how bs society has gotten

>>14825377
>The reproducibility crisis is caused by a publication bias against boring results that don't reveal anything interesting.
Blaming a moral collapse on a publication bias is a new low in shirking responsibilities. Sure, the amyloid-β guys had a "great" run, but that also caused 16 years of misdirected researsh funding.

>>14821803
That isn't science so it doesn't count. Politics is so far beyond fucked from theory it is basically a trade now due to the amount of "on the job" knowledge and shortcuts taken by its practitioners.

>>14826172
Well for someone who has been around in academia you sound surprising naive about how things are run.

It looks like you are coming from a field that does not have a reproduction problem:good for you.

The replication problem is as old if not older than publish or perish.

Have you ever tried to publish negative results? It is a bitch. And if you plan to have a successful career you cannot really afford to "waste your time" on it.

Supervisor not supervising their students is the most common complain you hear for master students and PhD. And I never talked about fraud I talked about people making experimental errors that nobody notices because of a lack of supervisor. This is not acceptable but is not fraud and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

>>14820236
Copying your homework off of Chegg is like who cares.
Plagiarizing your fucking PhD dissertation is a completely different level of bugman psychopathy.

>your fucking PhD dissertation

>>14826446
thank you for reinforcing my point

>>14821120
this. It's not just a 'little cheating', plebbit OP is a fucking goof that committed career suicide.

>>14821071
In OP's case it's possible that OP (I assume he's the academic in question) knows his material. In fact: I'll say it's probable.
OP however has a deep character flaw which imploded his dissertation and, further, will resurface in his professional career later.
No institution should ever take a chance on this guy. OP should consider a private-sector career or maybe the patent office.
That's as much good as I'll speak of a selfadmitted plagiarist.

>>14826390
>Well for someone who has been around in academia you sound surprising naive about how things are run.
Oh, I have had a fair bit of bad experiences, including people using strong arm tactics to get in on the author list.
>It looks like you are coming from a field that does not have a reproduction problem:good for you.
Reproduction was not too much of a problem but there were plenty of ethical problems and things very close to fraud and a few cases crossing the line.
>The replication problem is as old if not older than publish or perish.
>Have you ever tried to publish negative results? It is a bitch. And if you plan to have a successful career you cannot really afford to "waste your time" on it.
Yeah, didn't get far on that. My sub field ended up in the backwaters before most of the field collapsed.
>Supervisor not supervising their students is the most common complain you hear for master students and PhD.
I had hoped it had improved since my time.
>And I never talked about fraud I talked about people making experimental errors that nobody notices because of a lack of supervisor. This is not acceptable but is not fraud and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
If the supervisor is happy to put his name on the paper, and he always is, he lends false legitimacy to the publication when it is out. The student might be incompetent, but the supervisor has a duty.

>>14820236
>is academic dishonesty that bad?
>People cheat all the time...

And when they get caught they get kicked out
THEN they say "I am so ashamed and sorry" please let me back in, BUT if they were NOT caught they would never said or done anything to admit their cheating.

Sorry, but these people are dishonest AND so stupid they can not cheat without getting caught.

>>14826697
>>14820236
>is academic dishonesty that bad?
It's not just bad. It's worse. Cheating in an exam to get a better grade is whatever, you will be the one that will get exposed later.
However cheating in PhD means that you made up results that might cause big damage because someone else will assume that those results are correct instead of spending 3 years himself to prove you, and then when it goes wrong you will fuck over other people.
And stealing results from someone else also fucks over other people, they put years into that and you just copy it and claim that it was you. In both cases you are causing serious harm to other people.

>>14820236
Yes it is you dick head.

You have to prove you know the material. Not some little kid copying lines of technical extracts.

>>14820236
Yeah. Do all your own homework, don't end up like me kids

>>14826729
You're probably gen z yourself.

>>14821583
Peak retard

>>14826927
Go ahead and prove him wrong.

i fucking love science ya'll