/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14807400
It's just more "noble lie" bullshit to make 4chan spergs think they're being high-tech schemed against. Then they destroy boards themselves with mutual accusations.

>>14807415
>an entire town not realizing it is the wrong exit

>>14807400
The definition of racism is flawed but useful enough for political objectives.

Because, even if you remove racism, you are still left with race.

>>14807400
the general argument is we live in a society/world with biases even if we dont realise it.
so when we go to train an AI on real world data it is often given data skewed by race.
for example the race to crime statistics in america are somewhat skewed due to black people having a higher rate of being convicted more often compared to white people.
so if you train an AI with this data it becomes trained with the same biases that the people that it gets data from have regardless if they notice it or not.

as far as chat AIs its most likely that when someone says something racist/sexist/whatever, its so far out of left field that the AI prediction is so off that the sentance has a disproportianate affect on how the AI reacts to those words in the future.
since AI is typically gradient descent based you can just imagine it as a ball slowly rolling down a hill, and then being kicked in a random direction by someone.

>>14808314
AI's regurgitate what they see not what we want them to see.

Current AIs aren't sophisticated enough to be properly racist. Or have real beliefs about any human issue. Of course they aren't going to discriminate against racist language unless they're specifically programmed to. Same as toddlers.

What if we taught the AI Christianity

Why do AI seem to embody the worst parts of everything they touch?

>>14807400
>Why does AI specifically built to notice patterns in data keep becoming racist?
Racism is natural and part of all animals evolutionary biology.

Being against racism is being against Nature and evolution.

Denying racism is natural and god-given is denying science.

>>14807415
Dayum I like the looks of that place! They better shooot to kill any scum that tries to move there or disrupt their tranquility.

>>14807400
OH LAWDY

>>14807415
If it keeps progressives out then it's a win.

Because the data is so completely and totally overwhelming. It really speaks to the potential for humans to delude themselves with lies.

>>14807415
beautiful

>>14808384
>GAYS SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH
>CRIMINALS SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH
>RACEMIXERS SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH
>BLASPHEMERS SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH
>SEGREGATION FOREVER!
>GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY!!!!!!
jeez it will be the most hateful thing on this planet

>>14808533
Why did you describe Islam? Hes talking about Christians.

>>14808533
That sounds more like the middle east bro.

>>14807400
Which is 4chans most hateful board????? Haven't noticed any of them being hateful.

>>14807400
Reality have a well-known genocidal fascism bias.

>>14808566
hating people because of their race is stupid, but not being racist is also stupid. it's just pattern recognition.

>>14808588
Hating people for [arbitrary] reason is dumb.
Hating people for [justifiable] reason is smart.

>>14808592
hating blacks because they commit more crime is like hating dolphins because they swim in the sea.

>>14808598
People hate bugs when they are in their home, but not in the forest.

>>14808603
They should be asking who left the window open.

>>14808605
You still don't keep the bugs in your home.

>>14808605
They should be asking who let the dogs out.

>>14808395

progressives have tacitly acknowledged this by trying to redefine 'racism' as something only christian whites do. So the rampant and explicit racism of POCs is exempted.

>>14808610
A doggy is nuttin' if he don' have a bone

>>14808598
>hating blacks because they commit more crime is like hating dolphins because they swim in the sea.
Nuke both of them. Dolphins are some of the cruelest and worst animals on the planet besides humans.

>>14808685
Ah dolphins, the rapists of the sea.

>>14808696
i prefer narwhals, the jedi of the sea.

>>14808701
le bacon at midnight

>>14808703
but they stop cthulhu eatin' ye

>>14808540
>>14808546
t.never read the bible

>>14808706
Is this bait? This has to be bait.

>>14808706
>the bible
Jewish. Written by Jews in Hebrew and Greek.

>>14808708
>>14808731
*tips*

>>14807400
Because some people subscribe to an unscientific definition of racism:
What most people think:
"Racism is when you treat someone differently from others because of their race."
What some believe:
"Racism is when one race is more affected by something than others, even if the criteria that leads to this result has nothing to do with race."
"Racism is power plus privilege."
"Racism is when you affirm that races exist and people are not equal in every way"
etc. etc. other such nonsense
AI cannot be any more racist than basic arithmetic, in the correct sense of the word.
But because it detects patterns in data that some people would like to deny, those people then claim "AI is racist" or the more complex version "the data is racist" like this anon here
>>14808314
btw his chatbot explanation is all good, but:
>so when we go to train an AI on real world data it is often given data skewed by race.
>so if you train an AI with this data it becomes trained with the same biases that the people that it gets data from have regardless if they notice it or not.
This is wrong and dishonest.
What he should have said is, if AI is trained on racist data than it inherits the racism from it.
However he presupposes that the data has racial biases, with no argument.
In reality, the data might well be skewed by race, and this may well be due to characteristics of the human races in question instead of due to the biases of the people that collected it.
Proving this is trivial. You can train an AI to select people by hair color, language spoken, etc.
But some people consider this to be impossible, since to them "there is only one race, le human race".
Since you're here, you already know that's false. And there's your answer. (1/2)

>>14808755
To the anon who wrote that other answer,
>>14808314
if you believe all AI racial bias is due to the biases of the people collecting the data, therefore you believe there is no instrinsic difference between races. i.e. you believe in le human race.
If that's indeed the case, do go take a long space walk without a space suit.
If that's not the case, thanks for the contribution and apologies for piggybacking off yours. (2/2)

>>14808314
>higher rate of being convicted
can only find british stats but minorities are disproportionately likely to commit crimes despite having a lower conviction rate, be surprised if it was any different in the US. you meant incarceration rate.

Any examples of posts?

>>14808605
Jewish people

>>14808395
>racism good because my unevolved chimp brain tells me it'll keep me safe from predators
Low IQ. Also everytime a junkie shoots up heroin its good because seeking dopamine is natural and le good. Then again I'm not surprised racists have literal nigger-tier mindsets

>>14807400
It was fed racist data.
>you mean reality
No, I mean millions of posts from racist people. Reality (however racist it is) has no direct impact on the data it receives. Those AI just recognize patterns in text and try to emulate it. If it's fed racist text it will be racist, if it were fed communist text it would be communist, if it were fed schizo posts it would be schizo, etc.

>>14808830
your subconscious mind is smarter than your conscious mind. there are niggas who noticed that they always beat the really hard boss they got stuck on first try the next day and niggas who didn't. i feel bad for you but keep truckin' soldja

>>14807400
>i downloaded and ran a python neural net script, here is some output
Why do buzzfeed-style clickbait sois keep writing this same shitty blogpost over and over?

>>14808880
What do you expect from journalists?

>>14808270
There literally isn't enough of a difference in genetic material between individual humans to make the case for different races, but it is undeniable the effect of observing the visual and cultural differences between people of different phenotypes and ethnicities, yes.

>>14808982
>sn't enough of a difference in genetic material between individual humans to make the case for different races
Why do people keep repeating this lie? You can clearly tell a persons race via genetics. Just stop lying.

>>14808533
No cap, famm. That shit low-key lit af fr fr

On God!

>>14808603
No, fuck mosquitos, I hate them wherever they are, they make the forest unpleasant and dangerous.

>>14808609

>>14808982
>>14808986
So then how is there enough difference in genetic material to make the case for different dog species based on phenotypes?

>>14807400
didn't facebook find that 90% of all it's hate speech was against white people?

>>14808982
go back to leftypol troon

>>14808982
yeah we're all the same underneath. one big happy species

>>14809046
> 30 different dogs
> 40 different cats
> 100 different oaks
> 300 different turtles
> 3000 different frogs
> 6000 different lizards
> 13,000 different ants
> 30,000 different wheat
> 50,000 different spiders
> 8 million different living animals
> 1 race, the human race

>>14807429
>triggered and enraged by the existence of a peaceful town without a violent crime problem

>>14809304
Unlikely

>>14809275
>> 1 race, the human race
There were about 40 different species of humanoids, but we either murdered them all or interbred with them or both

>>14809318
nice try, try again

>>14809318

>>14809363
>>14809364
That doesn’t refute anything of what I posted
Are you seriously implying that white supremacist groups don’t commit crimes?

>>14809392
>Mostly white town in Arkansas
>White supremacists commit crimes!
Nice goal post moving you got there. If I had to take a guess, I'd say you think that all white people are white supremacists. Fuck off back to plebbit, retard.

>>14810058
I don’t know how anyone could make a connection between white supremacy and a town where the national director of the klu klux clan, Thomas Robb lives and has his office

>>14809364
>2019 mass shooters
>Mass Shootings in 2016
>demography of 2010
This screams cherry-picked data.

>>14809392
Let me guess, prison gangs are "white supremacists"?

>>14810199
>FED Klux Klan existing means there are crimes
>crimes in a small white town
You're just a pieces of shit that assumes ideologies you disagree with are violent criminals and will twist any data to support your schizophrenic delusions. Try turning off the TV and logging out of Twitter and you might feel better.

>>14807400
You're making the bot learn from people talking through 15 layers of irony who are used to unconstrained freedom to contemplate alternative trains of thought thatbare commonly shunned by mainstream communication platforms. What would you expect?

You hook the bot up to a mic and put it somewhere like a Dailywire or Fox studio listening in on interviews and THEN let it get knowledge from other alternative platforms, and that'd be a much more well-rounded AI.

(00:00 here so please excuse me if i make no sense)

>>14807400

>>14808388
They are incapable of introspection and copy biases all over the place, unless AGI.

>>14808755
>ai accurately predicts neighbourhood crime rates based on racial composition
>woke project manager directs programmers to remove racial data from database
>ai accurately predicts neighbourhood crime rates based on ratio of menthol cigarette sales to overall cigarette sales

>>14807400
No one has ever called racists incorrect.

oh wow posts are being deleted, what a surprise. That never happens here when liars are being exposed
>>/sci/thread/14807400

>>14810207
sure, not the way you think however

>>14807400
To play devil's advocate, a left leaning person would probably say the AI is learning patterns of a racist world slanted against minorities e.g. If blacks are born into poorer commumities and are given more influences that push them away from education or success in business and more towards drugs and crime then the AI could learn that pattern and recommend less leniency in prison sentences (prison sentence recommendations is something AI has already been applied to in real life) in a way that has a logical explanation but not necessarily a morally sound one.
The AI wouldn't try to uncover reasons why those patterns formed and might end up providing more fuel for people looking to effectively punish victims of bad environments.

>>14807400
people keep feeding it racist memes

>>14811284
>a racist world slanted against minorities
they'd be happier if they went to live where they weren't a minority instead of forcing their unwanted presences on people who would rather not have them around

>>14808859
you're talking about AI chatbots only, right?

>>14811299
>they'd be happier if they went to live in Sub-Saharan Africa
Just because being black in a white country is bad doesn't mean being black in a black country is good.
There's always room for an even worse situation no matter how bad things have already been for you.

>>14811220
kek
Im sure there are a dozen other metrics that makes this obvious, they could kjeep removing them but it will always give the same answer or be completely unusable.
>We removed all racially bias data, now the AI says crime is the same everywhere! Looks like our job is complete :)

>>14811284
>providing more fuel
>Nooo! We can't publish crime statistics with race, that will make people racist!
>Nooo! We can't release transit security footage, that would make people racist!!!
So does "adding fuel" mean "proving your enemy was correct the whole time"?

>>14811306
>Its better to live in a white country as a minotiry than in a b lack country as a majority
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM
I AM HMMMMMING VERY HARD
HMMMMMMMMMMM
What makes a country a good place to live????
>inb4 colonization is bad because it built roads, provided clean water, medical supplies, and education! Which are BAD and RACIST!!!!!

>>14811306
population growth in Sub-Saharan Africa is stronger than in any other region on the planet, life there is easier than anywhere else.

>>14811371
Is it possible a feedback loop of self-affirming lies could be amplified?

>>14811379
People have fewer children when they're under less stress.
If you increase the standard of living the birth rate will pretty reliably start to go down.
Having lots of kids is a desperation behavior. When times are really bad your survival instincts intensify and you start fucking like rabbits.

>>14811373
>inb4 colonization is bad because it built roads, provided clean water, medical supplies, and education!
You can rob someone and then use the money for good causes without the initial robbery necessarily becoming a good thing after the fact.
A tremendous amount of prosperity was acheived through the use of slavery throughout world history. But the part where you enslave people is generally not considered a moral good.
The government might do lots of nice and helpful things with tax revenue, but at the end of the day the state is still using force to involuntarily take what isn't theirs.

>>14807400
If i train something on a dataset where everyone says that vomit on pizza is the best thing ever then the AI will say vomit on pizza is the best thing ever

>>14811416
But where are the lies? Youre saying the collected knowledge of humanity AND their lived experiences are wrong because the TV man said they are?

>>14811426
>stealing
They didnt steal anything. This is like saying a guy who decided not to pick up a random $20 bill on the street was robbed by the guy who picked it up. But its even worse, becasue the guy who picked up the $20 also bought you lunch, but then after lunch you accuse him of stealing your money.
>A tremendous amount of prosperity was acheived through the use of slavery throughout world history.
Most wealth that has ever existed didn't involve slavery. The amount of "wealth" generated by slavery is negligible in the history of humanity. You've been brainwashed by lies. The use of horses, cattle, and dogs have provided more wealth than human slaves. Not only that, it ignores the hundreds of years of serfdom that happened in Europe (which is still happening today, the serfs are just more comfy). Yet Europe is an advanced civilization. AND it ignores Asia, which has thousands of years of slavery by their own kind and they have a post-industrial society despite not being given the free infrastructure that colonization brought.
TLDR: Fuck off with slavery bullshit and lies. I'm done with excuses and complainers.

>>14811433
>But where are the lies? Youre saying the collected knowledge of humanity AND their lived experiences are wrong because the TV man said they are?
I said I was playing devil's advocate, anon. I never claimed racism WAS a lie. My point was you're making assumptions I woukdn't automatically assume, like any time something adds fuel to a process and someone else is concerned about it that must mean the process is predicated in truth and the concerned party is trying to hide the truth.
Hence why I asked whether you think it's possible for a feedback loop of lies to exist.
I can think of one common class for feedback loops of lies which is urban legends. A lot of people genuinely believe you're supposed to drink 8 glasses of water a day for example.
>A suitable allowance of water for adults is 2.5 litres daily in most instances. An ordinary standard for diverse persons is 1 millilitre for each calorie of food. Most of this quantity is contained in prepared foods. If the last, crucial sentence is ignored, the statement could be interpreted as instruction to drink eight glasses of water a day.
https://www.bmj.com/content/335/7633/1288
Or that people in the Middle Ages only drank alcoholic beverages because they didn't have clean water. Not only do people say these lies as though they were true, but the entire modern developed world goes around repeating variations of these lies and intensifying them more and more, sometimes even going as far as making the lies official as part of academic articles or even in legislation of major state governments.

>>14807400
Garbage in garbage out. AI simply reproduce what is already there. What else did you expect?

>>14811300
It's also true for people, but they generally have a much more diverse pool of information to pull from like parents, school, friends, tv etc. so the effect is less pronounced. It is inherent to how information works. One of the first things any propagandist worth his salt will do is discredit other forms of media so that the propagandist can have full control over what information flow the propagandee consumes.

>>14808982
This is an unfalsifiable claim; you don't know how much, or which, difference(s) produce large changes in behavior between civilization, tribes, individuals, etc. because the environmental conditions now are incomparably different from those earlier in evolutionary history.

>>14811449
At least in the case of the US it severely held it back. Usually when countries have bloody civil wars it doesn't make their economy boom immediately after, especially in the process of abolishing a supposed valuable economic industry. it stagnated the fuck out of the economy so a few rich faggots could flex in style while they played gardener

>>14811449
>The amount of "wealth" generated by slavery is negligible
The only reason slavery was relevant to the American Civil War was exactly because it was the foundation of the Southern economy. If it didn't matter economically there wouldn't have been a war.

Looking at this thread i realize i am finally free. I took graduate population genetics courses and worked through the literature. I felt cursed everytime these bullshit threads came up, because my argumentive nature made me want to engage with people using tools meant for surgery as bludgeons.

Now, i don't care enough to even try. How liberating.

>>14811457
The problem is you can experience these things yourself. The teachers of racism are people of that race. Denial of reality causes mental health issues in people. Anti-racism is just one of the many psychological attacks the media pushes on people. There is no "fire" to "add fuel" to, there are no lies being unjustly perpetuated, its just the observation of reality versus the fake reality presented by powerful people to trick you.
The feedback loop of lies is anti-racism, it is climate change alarmism, it is vax mandates, it is dogmatic science. Those are feedback loops of lies and they are kept alive using billions of dollars to trick people with lies. Nobody is paying anyone to make people more racist because that is the natural outcome of the society we live in.

>>14811467
>it was the foundation of the Southern economy
No it wasn't, thats another lie. The vast majority of southerners did not own slaves. Slavery brought down the earning potential and living conditions of the average man, just like open boarders does today. Slavery is a mechanism of wealth CONTROL not GENERATION.

>>14811478
>The vast majority of southerners did not own slaves.
And the vast majority of Southerners didn't contribute a significant amount to the South's economy.
Your argument is basically now that computers weren't a major source of prosperity because the average random nobody worker isn't personally contributong billions to his nation's economy.

>>14808982
>There literally isn't enough of a difference in genetic material between individual humans to make the case for different races

Clearly defined racial differences in humans.
You would argue that all dog breeds are identical.

>>14811467
no isn't you historically illiterate troon. The very foundation of the Constitution is that government exists solely to protect the citizens property rights and the north was literally taking people's property away from them. What you think about slavery being moral or not has nothing to do with the fact they were property under the law of the time and the federal government had zero legal authority to confiscate their property or tell the states what they could and could not do. This is what leftists always do, rewrite history to make themselves the victims and the moral authorities and it always stacks of bullshit when you actually examine their bullshit claims

>>14811474
>go to idaho
wow no armed security guards at the walmart entrance wonder why
>go to wyoming
wow no bulletproof glass partitions in the liquor store wonder why
>go to black people land
wow $2.47 phone chargers tethered to the racks with foil upcs wonder why

people that don't see this either never get out despite projecting it on the other side, have the pattern recognition of an inanimate object, or are actually black

>>14811467
>it was the foundation of the Southern economy

No... horses were the foundation of the economy.

>>14811496
I never once claimed the war was fought for moral reasons you idiot. I said it was for economic reasons.

>>14811502
I didnt say you did claim it was for moral reasons moron but your claim was complete horseshit none the less

>>14811490
>just lying
Why the fuck do you idiots always fall back on more lies? I wasn't making an argument, I was TELLING YOU WHAT HAPPENED. Fuck off you brainwashed lying cunt.

>>14811514
>I didnt say you did claim it was for moral reasons
I made a point of not talking about it as over moral reasons and then you responded with:
>>14811496
>What you think about slavery being moral or not
Which demonstrates you didn't read what I wrote and hallucinated some alternative anon who was talking about the Civil War from some sort of moral perspective.
And no, you saying "or not" doesn't make it not count either because I'm 99% sure that's the next bullshit angle you're going to try to pull. I said it was for economic reasons and there was zero point to you bringing up morality.

>>14811547
listen you mouth breathing moron, I didnt make that comment in reference to your idiotic post, I was simply stating it matter of factly to emphasize the point to dipshits like you who place feels over realz.

I dont give a flying a fuck about what your personal feelings are about he morality of slavery, or anyone else's. I was stating that it doesnt matter in the context of discussing what the law was you fucking donkey. I did read your previous post but I am not reading this one because you are obviously fucking stupid with a child level reading comprehension and not worth wasting any more of my time

>>14811519
>I wasn't making an argument, I was TELLING YOU WHAT HAPPENED.
You're conflating 2 distinct things, one of which is 'most Southerners didn't own slaves' and the other of which is 'slavery wasn't the foundation of the South's economy.'
The first of those two things is in fact a true statement. The argument you're incorrectly and unknowingly making is that this therefore means slavery was not the foundation of the South's economy, which is like saying because only a minority of individuals produce massively successful innovations like new technologies, this must mean technology isn't the foundation of modern economies.

>>14811519
How is what he said false? Most of the southern wealth was generated by large landowners who held slaves. The average good old boy was completely inconsequential except as meatshield against northern bullets.

>>14811568
>therefore
No, they are tow separate statements, both of which are correct, there is no "therefore". You know why its correct? Because after the war, there were no more slaves and it turns out the south was fine, because it DIDNT rely on slaves for its economy.

>>14811570
Slave owning landowners did not generate most of the wealth, thats just fucking lying. That is what is false. You idiots just believe everything TV man says and parrot it like its truth. This is just stupid bait. Shills like you you and him just repeat lies. All working people contribute to the economy. People still need janitors, cooks, tailors, iron workers, taxis, mail delivery, plumbing, etc.

>>14811590
>Because after the war, there were no more slaves and it turns out the south was fine
Because they renamed slavery to "sharecropping."

>>14811600
>moving the goalposts
le epic win my dude

>>14811605
That's literally what happened, as opposed to your fairyland scenario where all the production magically disappeared and the South started making money by inventing Waffle House instead.

>>14811608
No, you're being intentionally dishonest to save face after being caught lying.
>the south relied on slavery!
>Why did the Souths economy recover without slavery?
>Uhhh because they actually still had slavery, they just called it different!!!
>Ok then what about after this "neo-slavery" and they still had an economy?
>UHHH STILL SLAVERY BUT DIFFERENT NAME OK???
Slavery has never created wealth, it was used by the already wealthy to stay wealthy and prevent others from becoming wealthy. You're just a retard with an agenda.

>>14811630
Yes anon, I am the first person to claim sharecropping was rebranded slavery even though everyone in this thread including you already alta vista'd sharecropping and got back the search returns with every one of them saying exactly that.

>>14811590
Just look at the explosive rise of manufacturing in free states vs those in slave states. In slave states, agriculture vastly outnumber everything else. Or are you going to tell me that the 1850 census guys were already in on the conspiracy as well?

source: https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1850/1850c/1850c-04.pdf

>>14811630
>Slavery has never created wealth, it was used by the already wealthy to stay wealthy and prevent others from becoming wealthy
So none of you are really arguing with each other then since you all agree most of the South's wealth was from slave agriculture. You're just saying it doesn't count because you don't like when most of the wealth is controlled by an elite few.

>>14811653
Slavery doesnt create wealth, it controls wealth. Its used by already wealth to stay wealthy.

>>14811687
If the slaves weren't shipped in I don't think you'd be seeing all that crop production. It's not like the majority of the South's production was being done by free white laborers prior to the Civil War. For the relatively small percentage of slave owners there was a much larger number of slave laborers.
On a production basis I don't think anyone can dispute slavery's central role in that.
What you're describing is more the topic of income equality / socialism I guess.

>>14811691
You are confusing North America and South America. North America did not get that many slaves, there were tons of white farmers since thats where all the Europeans went (so there was less need for slaves). It was south America and the Caribbeans that imported most slaves. I dont know why the USA gets all the blame for slavery when most of it happens in South America. I guess nobody likes to mention that.
People have been lying for years to blame the USA for slavery when colonists didn't have much say in it. It was done by a few wealthy people, and it was a small part.
Now we have to live with this bullshit. All these liars just want to feel smart, or morally superior, or get paid.

>>14811687
labor creates wealth, what doesn't create wealth is lazy bums lying around in africa doing nothing with themselves. humanity originated in africa with no money or financial assets whatsoever and somehow or other every region of the planet has since managed to become far wealthier than africa even though they've had millennia less time to do it in.

>>14809392
they commit far less crime than judaic supremacists

>>14811422
>If you increase the standard of living the birth rate will pretty reliably start to go down.

doesnt apply to sub saharans, moron

>>14811903

>>14807400
>Why does AI specifically built to notice patterns in data keep becoming racist?

Liberal progressives believe all people are identical and races do not exist.
Actual evidence says otherwise. so they LITERALLY hardware the AI NOT to arrive at the conclusion that racial differences exist.

>>14811699
From the same source as >>14811649
In 1850 the percentage of slaves to total population in Alabama and florida was 44% of the population, in louisiana it was 47% of the population. I would call that 'many slaves'. How large a percentage would it need to be for you to call it many. 80%? 99%?
Nobody is denying that south america was engaging in slavery but you are lying that it was only a minor part of the dixie economy when it so obviously wasn't.
>All these liars just want to feel smart
Well being right does tend to make a person feel smart. So what other arguments do you have besides calling everybody a liar?

>>14811784
This is a very racist comment.
Reported to the ADL.