/sci/ - Science & Math

There was an image bleed issue but we're looking into it.

Old space cannot die soon enough. USA would be so fucked without SpaceX. It would be China only dominating space.

>$2 billion per launch
Are we REALLY sure there's no cheaper option to do the same thing somehow?

>RS-25 flange issue "worse than we expected...no chance of a September launch" says Bill Nelson

ITS UNIRONICALLY OVER

https://mobile.twitter.com/NASA/status/1362192133038350343

>>14804357
FTS Archive
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KCJBL632oieD1r6JOh_5Eg9NTcf_-hH8?usp=sharing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKwoBudYIiI
WE ARE (not) READY!

>staging two pages early just because image limit was reached
many such cases, sad!

Will they solve the problem by Friday?

>>14804382
By Friday? NASA will get this done in under a week?

>>14804382
"The" problem?

So anyway, how about those plasma magnet sails?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_sail#Plasma_magnet_(PM)

>>14804357

>>14804374
Launch Falcon Heavy twice

Space exploration became a fucking joke after Apollo
I wish nerds had never overhyped it to me

>>14804382
SLS won't be flying this year

>>14804391
Needs superconductors for the coils

>>14804400

Chinks wil get to the moon first...

>>14804373
>It would be China only dominating space.

It will be

>>14804400
do you feel cursed with knowledge

>>14804382
We need a final solution for SLS

>>14804378
>Comments are turned off

>>14804412
implessive

>>14804412
No

>>14804400
Space flight enjoyer life is one of disappointment

>>14804410
Nobody but America will ever get to the moon first, thank god.
It's kind of embarassing that there's this must contention for second place, but realistically we're going to get second place as well.

>>14804412
My greatest wish is for China to become competent enough in spaceflight to be a serious competitor. Maybe then we'll see more than a few pennies given to the industry.

>>14804417

>>14804410
They have time machines?

>>14804424
USA is not capable of doing it for 50 years now. Chinks will go there and stay. NASA has maybe 2 year advantage now. And it's shrinking by months every time SLS fails.

>>14804357
Im in location

>>14804427
Good luck, you'll need it.

>>14804374
Its not 2 billion
And no its not 4 billion either

>stages thread because nigger FAGGOT OP wanted to post some gay fucking image
>thread dies
good job GAYWAD

Fuck
Think of the poor sats stuck in SLS. They are all going to go flat

>>14804427
>NASA has maybe 2 year advantage now.
>2035

>>14804419

yes

https://youtu.be/wMePgnkPpP8
https://youtu.be/douUdeiKclw

>>14804452

2035 for base 2027 for boots on the ground.

>>14804413
I'm cursed since the day I realised how long it takes to get a basic probe into Neptune
We are gonna be bound to this dirt ball for eternity, and I'm not even talking about the whole colonization bullshit. We can't even study properly our system because of how much time and money it takes

>>14804448
the schizo strikes again

>>14804117
>>14804132
Lmao at flangelets.

>>14804448
i liek my images

>>14804405
So put them in the shade and let them cool down.
REBCO superconducting film tapes cost around $100 per meter according to google, so a thousand dollars gets you two 5 meter circumference loops of superconducting "wire" which will sit around 25 celsius below its critical temperature when left to chill down behind a sunshade, making it a superconductor for free.
Would it be possible to build a 3U cubesat to demonstrate plasma magnet sail technology? Have the bottom unit of the cubestat contain a 10m by 10m square sunshade and a little ROSA for power. Have the middle unit contain the reaction wheels, electronics, antennae, sensitive accelerometer, etc. Have the final unit contain the superconducting ribbon loops coiled up so that they spring out once released during deployment. Lob the cubesat onto literally any Earth escape trajectory, but preferably something that'll send it retrograde with respect to Earth and thus put its periapsis closer to the Sun. Use reaction wheel torque to point the cubesat away from the Sun. Deploy ROSA. Deploy sunshield foil. Deploy superconductor coils. Wait for the coils to cool down for several weeks/a couple months or whatever. Start pumping current into the coils and watch the accelerometer. Verify models are matching reality and aim to achieve as high an effective "thrust" as possible over several weeks before solar power drops off too much. If all goes well you now have a 3U cubesat shooting away from the Sun that will eventually outrun even the Voyager probes.
Idk about you but this seems like not actually that difficult of a mission to me, and think of the implications for exploration. We now have the ability to theoretically achieve 400 km/s cruising velocity away from the Sun with arbitrarily large vehicles, limited by power supply. Anything that wants to go to the outer planets only needs enough propellant to leave Earth and slow down on arrival at target.

New rocket announced by CASC-SAST - a kerolox version of the CZ-2D

>>14804451
How did they not mount them on a bus with an extension cord they can hook up to the tower to keep the batteries charged, are they stupid? No need to answer I already know.

>>14804488

>>14804452
Did you save my screencap of the chine conference where they revealed Long March 9 still doesn't exist in any aspect? cool

>>14804459
>I'm cursed since the day I realised how long it takes to get a basic probe into Neptune
Plasma magnet sail gets us to Neptune from Earth in less than 1 year IIRC, and it even brakes into orbit on arrival.

>>14804493

>>14804488
>>14804493
Chinese official presentation renders look worse than amateur SpaceX enthusiast renders

>>14804504

>>14804448
new content from last thread, thank you drawfag i love tou

How much money could be gotten to give to SpaceX if the metal on SLS is scrapped and the parts sold?

WE ARE GOING

>>14804504
YF-102 looked disgusting--haphazard pipework protruding--in its safety cage before CNSA. Very very disrespectful.

>>14804514
Now draw her leaking

>>14804519
To scrub

>>14804517
SLS isn't worth anything as a physical object, it merely costs billions to pay the engineers to hand-carve the isogrid structure and quintuple check the torque on every individually serial numbered bolt and calibrate every washer and then xray everything twice for good measure.

>HELSINKI — China is progressing with the development of two super heavy-lift rockets for crewed missions and infrastructure launches to the moon, according to officials.

>The new launchers are designed to allow China to conduct short-term lunar landings before 2030 and send large pieces of infrastructure to the moon in the 2030s respectively.
>A two-stage version of the rocket, for sending a new generation crew spacecraft into low Earth orbit, is envisioned for a test flight in 2026. The three-core, three-stage variant capable of sending 27 metric tons into trans-lunar injection is expected to launch later in the decade.

>The kerosene-fueled rocket will use clusters of uprated versions of the existing YF-100 engine and the launcher is also intended to be made reusable. Last year other CALT officials stated that two launches of the rocket would be able to facilitate a six-hour stay on the lunar surface.

>The Long March 9 will boast a payload capacity of around 140 tons to LEO and will launch elements for the planned International Lunar Research Station (ILRS) jointly planned by China and Russia.

>CCTV did not provide details of the progress made. However, CALT earlier this month announced completion of structural tests related to the CZ5DY, and in April tested titanium engine components for the launcher.
https://topteknews.net/china-claims-progress-on-rockets-for-crewed-lunar-landings-and-moon-base-s176403.html

>>14804522
I dont think we have any rocket girl peeing images but i do have one of starship-chan farting

>>14804448
Posting images... on an image board!? Oh no!
We needed to make a new thread? But threads are a finite resource, at this rate there won't be any resources to create new threads in the future! It's not like we can create new threads endlessly whenever a new one is needed! Ooooooh nooooooo

Anyway, I'm going to dump some neat space flight images since you asked so nicely.

>possible flange crack
>feed line pressure issues
>engine failure
>6 years behind schedule
>billions over budget
Just take it behind the vab and blow it's brains out already..

>>14804534
It's fun to see them coping, as if SLS is the thing they're worried about

>>14804534
>The three-core, three-stage variant capable of sending 27 metric tons into trans-lunar injection is expected to launch later in the decade.
>27 metric tons
How is chine rocket tech so shiddy that even a 3 core 3 stage vehicle can't match the Saturn V?

>>14804534
Why is Helsinki just tossed in there, no part of the story mentions Finland

>>14804549

>>14804543
>>14804549
>>14804553
waiting for the neat images to show up

>>14804522
>>14804535
two dudes jacking off to their anime porno fantasies together. everyone point and laugh at the anime faggots and their mutual masturbation routine.

>>14804552

>>14804553
britishspaceprogramgon.png

>>14804488
>>14804493
>>14804504
>>14804511
Full video from the announcement of the YF-102 engine last year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz9QmBoT0Z8

Confirmation by CASC that SAST will indeed build a rocket with it, to succeed the hypergolic CZ-2D. Also, they say it is intended to become reusable.
http://www.spacechina.com/n25/n2014789/n2014809/c3607378/content.html

>>14804558
That's pretty kino ngl

>China has approved three more missions to the Moon over the coming decade, including ones involving rovers, a flying craft and the start of a permanent base.

>This will be the fourth phase of the Chinese lunar plan, that has previously seen them photograph the dark side, and return samples of moon rock to the Earth.

>Future missions, scheduled to begin in 2024, will become increasingly complex, resulting in the basic model of a lunar research station built on the Moon.

>This station is a joint project with the Russian space agency, Roscosmos, and is expected to be operational ahead of a joint crewed mission in 2030.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10356315/China-approves-THREE-missions-moon-decade.html

>>14804560
what am I missing

>>14804547
The cores are 5m in diameter, the Saturn V first stage was 10m in diameter

>>14804580
>joint project with pockocmoc
Oh no no no

>>14804559
starship chan make a stinky :)

>>14804598
>fold out RCS thruster pods
kino

>>14804582
>>14804552
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dateline

ARTEMIS MEDIA UPDATE IN 3 MINUTES GET READY FOR ROLL BACK AND DAMAGE CONTROL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg

>collagefag so mad he is spamming images
Post a von braun next tranny

>>14804552
Sometimes newspapers do this if the article was written by someone in Helsinki

>>14804609
>tracking an issue on the media update, NASA has put the countdown on a ten minute hold while we troubleshoot

>>14804609
ARTEMIS CANCELLED
ITS OVER
WE NOT GAAN

How many times can the same 15 images be posted in these threads before dumping them all at once counts as spamming/flooding

>>14804608
>>14804614
>Andrew Jones covers China's space industry for SpaceNews. Andrew has previously lived in China and reported from major space conferences there. Based in Helsinki, Finland, he has written for National Geographic, New Scientist, Smithsonian Magazine, Sky & Telescope, IEEE Spectrum, and The Wire China.

No wonder it looked out of place

>>14804592
I doubt that the whole planet will be enough to contain the salt and tears of amerimutts, when China is finishing to build their moonbase and they are still struggling to launch Artemis 2.

>>14804612
yeah was about to comment this but thought it would just make the problem worse
new thread just because of imagelimit, faggot proceeds to spam the thread full of pointless images

>>14804618
>WE GAAN, TO SCRAP YARD

>>14804592
The Russian components currently planned are just the Luna 25+ missions rebranded, the Chinese components do not depend on them, so no worries

>>14804482
>https://youtu.be/00xyBT70sB4?t=1421
Greason's been working on it.

>>14804624
Go ahead and lay flat, chang. May as well let it rot while you're at it.

>>14804609
>I am very proud of this launch team. They have solved many problems
How can he call them a "launch team" when they cannot launch anything?

>>14804533
>SLS isn't worth anything as a physical object, it merely costs billions to pay the engineers to hand-carve the isogrid structure and quintuple check the torque on every individually serial numbered bolt and calibrate every washer and then xray everything twice for good measure.
And there was still issue? That was my first thought, with all the careful attention to detail and all the time had leading up, how weren't such tests possible to ensure all systems were go

Press conference starting up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg

The AV guy at NASA is a retard lmao.

ENOUGH ABOUT THE ROCKET WHAT WAS THE VICE PRESIDENT DOING?

>>14804533
in other words
>SLS has almost no scrap value, the money spent on SLS has been burned and we got nothing for it.

NASA can't even afford a mic lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLhhb0Vlejs

>Part and parcel of building a congressional jobs program.

>>14804619
I would say 2 times in two different threads
perhaps even once if its clearly the same person posting images without the images themselves being especially interesting or connected to some topic that is being brought up/discussed

Atlas evolution. Atlas V has no original 50’s era Atlas tech anymore sadly

>>14804643
who? give me names

News update Lmao sound broken as fuck
https://youtu.be/gLhhb0Vlejs

>>14804638
Ah well you see, turns out space is actually hard haha, don't worry next time we'll get it right on the first try, just need another $15 billion

>>14804660
stop it fag

>>14804657
Almost as broken as the rocket

>>14804662
I only had two more images cued up to dump, but you're saying you want some more? Okay, I'll post more then.

Its losing its mind because people posted rocketgirls lmao

>>14804667
you need to stop

>>14804646
Yup!

>>14804657
>>14804648

Audio quality sounds fucked up.

>>14804640
This one works fine

>>14804657
Goa'uld running NASA now kek

SLS can't handle a little lightening
>Sunday was a day of rest for the team
What a bunch of fags
>let's just rest the day before the only thing that matters in my job

wats going on in here

>>14804654
Cylindrical tanks are 50's tech I think

>>14804673
I can't wait for more outer planets kino.

>>14804410
Not so fast.

SpaceX could make a Grey Dragon and orbit the Moon in a year.

>>14804681
Nope

>the team was too tired to continue
ARE YOU FOR FUCKING REAL?!?!

>>14804680
Can you believe that NASA wasn't going to put a camera on Juno? It took legit outcry for NASA to capitulate and put a basic bitch camera on the probe, and even then they didn't dedicate any resources to decoding the image data, they left that up to the public. Fucking nerd retards who are so detached from reality that they don't understand that the public doesn't give a shit about density versus depth curves derived from gravitational data, god damn.

>>14804681
That's Polaris 3 and DearMoon, anon

>>14804685
they were probably up for 36 hours straight working on this

>>14804685
tax dollars well spent :)

>Blaming the weather
You can only blame the weather if the rocket was capable of launching.

>>14804685
>ARE YOU FOR FUCKING REAL?!?!
Boomers need their nap and some time off to chill out.

>>14804686
They seem to be talking about focusing more on media coverage for Artemis I, hopefully we get some decent footage. It's really interesting to see how much better JAXA missions are footage wise, NHK has enough political power to throw their weight around and get cameras in interesting places.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1KWtG66lEQ
Just look at this.

>>14804669
I am sure you will enjoy more spaceflight images.

I was following until the supposed 0 hour, but then I forgot because I was playing vidya. Someone give me a rundown, Artemis 1 got canceled? Why?

>>14804631
>he even linked to the correct time in the video
Anon . . .

uhmm, the livestream is having a stroke?

>>14804685
They're all 50 to 80 years old.

>>14804707
werks for me

hell yeah let's blow through the image limit

>>14804705
The rocket shidded and one of the engines didn't chill out enough so they scrapped the attempt and also there's a crack in the vehicle somewhere that they need to inspect

>>14804713
oh never mind, i was watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLhhb0Vlejs instead of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg, now works
still, nasa can't into livestreamry, too hard

>>14803798
Right? And what if - haha - what if instead of measuring what they said what it actually did was just keep the person at the edge of orgasm? Wouldn't that be hilarious?

>>14804705
Boing shat the bed again regarding leaky valves, just like starliner

>>14804714
I hate that guy but at least if we run out of images on page 1 there's zero excuse for any fags who want to stage early.

>>14804681
>>14804688
Will they land though? The Chinese plan to land.

>>14804719
They need to convene a committee to study the formation of a process to design the procedure for scrubbing a livestream.

>>14804704
Escape Pods?

Looks like something from a schlocky horror movie. Where half if them fail and mutilate the crew. Trying to retract them.

>Only 720p
Unironically embarrassing. They are a multi-billion dollar agency, wtf

>>14804720
HUH??

>>14804724
Now is not the time for landing, that comes later

>>14804712
This
Boomers are old and slow now.
Just think about this
Today no launch.
They are going to take a nap and meet tomorrow! to see what to do.
Wednesday maybe to see the data with coffee and doughnuts and make decisions
Thu to make repairs??????????
Friday to launch??????
LOL
What if is something serious?

>>14804700
https://global.jaxa.jp/press/2020/09/20200910-2_e.html
I really want to emphasize how much this is an institutional difference, NASA media coverage has been historically atrocious and there seemed to be, at least until now, very little will to change it.

>>14804726
Yes, escape pods.


>Looks like something from a schlocky horror movie
The real horror is having no escape pods...
But yes, amputation is a real design concern with capsule ejection systems.

>>14804452
I think it says "two methalox stages complete reusability before 2035"

My man Jeff Chungus Foust now speaking

>>14804736
>"There's a 'non-zero' chance we launch on Friday"
>whole room laughs

>>14804736
>>14804712
Old men, and a few young attractive women. What a coincidental combination.

>The Apollo program was basically a bribe to keep southern states voting Democrat in spite of civil rights.

Few realise this.

>>14804751
>Our head engineers will look at it tomorrow
>We need time
>Give us time

>>14804733
That depends on NASA & SLS, no? Or is it likely SpaceX will organize their own landing with their lander?

>>14804745
>>14804749
The most aesthetically pleasing era of spaceflight is behind us. Dragon is certainly functional, but the blank white panels and touchscreens is utterly soulless

>>14804502
>TRL 3

>>14804412
They reused it three days ago
https://spacenews.com/china-makes-progress-in-reusability-with-secretive-second-flight-of-suborbital-spaceplane/

>>14804686
Can you believe there was a Jupiter atmospheric probe without any cameras?
Can you believe Dragonfly won't ever go close to the polar methane lakes?
Can you believe the absurd fear they have of accidentally contaminating other planets even when the probes stay for months exposed to radiation and those environments don't have the conditions for life?
Can you believe they wasted billions on a shit rocket and yet say we are going to the moon to stay?

>>14804774
>suborbital
Do "space"plane fags really?

>Don't you worry zoomerinos, if I can remember how we made it 50 years ago, we will make it again.

>as you fail to launch this rocket, does it make you think about what the apollo people did 50 years ago?
lmao he really asked that

>>14804789
Like everything it wasn't even boomers, it was WW2 generation and the Silent generation that did it

>>14804452
Long Lehao said he estimates the 5m diameter tricore rocket that is supposed to send people to the moon will have first launch in 2026 and the lunar landing will happen around 2030, assuming no unforeseen issues
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ei4y1Z7Ag/

>>14804357
desd

could you imagine if spacex did a press conference every time they scrubbed a WDR?

this old boomer just forgot that Apollo 4 happened, said the Saturn V program started with Apollo 6.

>>14804798
Of course, in terms of payload mass capability that Starship/Raptor would offer, the time gap is greater

>loren grush from (((BLOOMBERG)))
I see she wrote just the right amount of anti-spaceflight articles

>>14804779
It's a component test

>Suborbital vehicle to combine with orbital spaceplane for fully reusable space transportation system

>Meanwhile CALT’s orbital spaceplane launched from Jiuquan Aug. 4 remains in orbit on its second mission. The suborbital and orbital spaceplanes could be combined to create a fully-reusable space transportation system.

livestream over, the boomers need to nap

>>14804789
>hold on just let me find my needle and thread and I'll whip you up a new AGC in no time

>>14804800
could you imagine if every single other launch provider in the world, literally every single one except for spacex, were in the news every time their rockets fail to land or explode after hitting the ground? kek

>>14804767
>TRLs are a real assessment of technology
It's one cubesat mission away from being proven, $1 million could be the key to unlocking extreme increases in our capabilities in space.

>>14804778
>muh contamination
WE should be contaminating every planet with life

>>14804807

>>14804778
I don't want to believe
>>14804798
>assuming no unforeseen issues
heh ok

I wonder how Musk took the news of SLS scrubbing.

>>14804774
>spaceplane
>suborbital
The constant Chinese posturing is fucking embarrassing. Yeah they're catching up, but they have yet to actually do anything of real relevance in space.

>>14804829

>>14804830
>Yeah they're catching up, but they have yet to actually do anything of real relevance in space.

>>14804830
have you been sleeping the last 3 years??

>>14804829

>>14804836
Once again, the constant posturing by the Chinese is really fucking embarrassing.

>>14804836
>his response is literally a posture

/sfg/ is now a Long March 9 watching general. At this point it’s probably going to be ready to go before SLS lmao

>>14804823
The rocket uses the YF-100K engine, which is a modification of the YF-100 engine which is already in use, so the potentials for delays should be relatively limited

>>14804841
They are already the most serious competitor to US in space. What about that is posturing?

>>14804845
/sfg/ - sino fans general
LM9 > Starship

>>14804823
LM5 is quite literally the same jump from F9 to FH. There will be things to figure out, but all the hardware has already been used and the engines are an upgrade perfectly capable of being completed in time

>>14804533
SpaceX uses all these methods too you moron, it's just that they do it in less time, hence less cost. These are proven aerospace techniques and specifications, some of which they HAVE to adhere to so they can maintain their certs. You can't just wish away a high vibration, high temperature environment and not torque check your fasteners.

>>14804841
Cope amerimutt

>>14804855
Um, no sweaty, if NASA were to simply put me personally in charge I would be able to cut the budget by 70% and we would already have a base on the moon and mars.

>>14804841
Chinese space station looks cool
Chinese asteroid hopper is cool
Chinese mars sample return mission is cool

>>14804845
>>14804852

>>14804850
>They are already the most serious competitor to US in space.
And they're decades behind SpaceX.

I hate the chinks but I hate SLS more and I would be fine with Chang reaching lunar orbit in a bootlegged 5DY-next generation crewed space craft before SLS even flew because america needs a wake up call

>>14804867
when did spacex land on the moon? On mars?

>>14804841
>>14804860
Is it a tortoise and the hare situation, where America had such a big lead, they kicked their feet up, got complacent and comfortible, turned their space program into Disneyland, docked around, no direction, purpose, inspiring goals, or leadership
All the while China has been steadily building momentum and improving and innovating, whereas America is using technology from 40 years ago, China is using tech from the future, and preparing to zoom past and take the lead?

>>14804873
>china doing shit America and the Soviet Union did 50 years ago
wake me when china lands a booster.

>>14804877
No, China is still using old tech. Congress is just so unfathomably lazy that the chinks are still catching up.

>>14804867
SpaceX isn't an American company it is a Martian company

OK, calm down everybody, NASA has pinpointed with laser surgical precision what the problem is "is a very complicated machine".
https://youtu.be/zpH8Edbffq8

>>14804878
blue origin lands their first stage, what’s your point

>>14804882
Blue Origin has never been to orbit, and isn't chinese anyway. What's your point?

>>14804849
Me glancing pointedly at SLS, which also uses a very well understood legacy engine design

>>14804878
>wake me when china lands a booster.
What Nasa rocket can land a booster?
No Spacex, no BO, Nasa

>>14804852
It will cost much more than Starship, yes

>>14804883
You’re the one who pulled the soviet union and united states government into this comparison in the first place. What’s your point?

>>14804887
The only thing china has been able to do is ape their betters from 50 years ago in America and the Soviet Union. china is pathetic. Meanwhile American companies continue to innovate and widen the gap.

Maybe china will land a booster in 50 years, but even that is unlikely.

>>14804878
They have, haven't you seen the images of crushed boosters venting orange fumes among peasants? lol

>>14804887
DC-X

>>14804892
he(you) are the one that brought America and the Soviet Union into it, by championing chinese 'achievements' that America and the Soviets did half a century ago.

>>14804412
I hope not, it would be a shame considering Musk's mission to extend the light of consciousness

You go to the moon and mars because you can and you want to, not because you must, if you must that is only one more reason to go.

The early European ship explorers didn't need to go to America, they wanted to explore and they could.

>>14804896
By that logic NASA can land men on the Moon.

>>14804877
I'm so glad I don't live in your universe where SpaceX doesn't exist.

>>14804894
You really are a dumbass

>>14804887
>"no" instead of "not"
ESL chink confirmed.

>>14804894
Stop avoiding the question,
What rocket, that has been made by NASA in its 64 years has landed a booster.

>>14804903
Stay mad ricel.

>>14804898
that’s the most dumbass mental gymnastics I’ve ever seen in /sfg/, and that includes the retarded germanposter and ESL collagefag

>>14804904
Chinese and proud amerimutt.
We will conquer the Moon in the next decade.

>>14804909
>Chinese
We know, we can tell.

>>14804896
Skeptics' favorite rocket

>>14804908
kek

>>14804877
>America is using technology from 40 years ago
Excuse me? The RS-25 was designed in the 1970s. That's FIFTY years ago. Get it right. Also, 90% of Chinese space launch is still powered by the YF-20, which was an engine the Soviets gifted to China, which also happened back in the 1970s.

>steadily building momentum
It took China a quarter century to build their own cryogenic engine, and that was after Ukrainians sold them the technology.

>preparing to zoom past and take the lead?
China thrives on always being second place. Their economy is build about mass producing shittier versions of other people's invocations, and never coming in first lets them jerk off their ego as they pretend they're nothing more than a poor abused underdog. Being first at anything would destroy China.

real interesting stuff dude
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/filename/1557104117452.jpg/
https://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/filename/moon%20base%20copy.jpg/
https://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/filename/0019b93bd68d0fb6a6b103.jpg/

>>14804896
This. Thunderfeet taught me that Falcon 9 is literally just a rebranded DC-X

>>14804543
Wes Anderson vibes

>>14804916
oof exposed

Jannies, please send this chinaman on a little vacation, he's delusional

>>14804916
Oh no

>>14804880
Was there ever in space programs history discussion of how to have politicians have nothing to do with the space program in anyway?

I geuss it's hard because it's federally funded; but until this SLS threads talking about prices noone in the public really thinks or cares about prices and tax dollars spent by mass over the last 40 years. Just as they don't care about taxes spent on welfare or 20 years of middle east war.

The could just be a constitutionally federal mandate amendment that NASA gets X amount of money

I geuss the checks and balence trouble is; who and how the process of determing the leaders and decision makers of NASA , terms in power and such. And also if NASA has gureenteed a lot of money every year, to prevent them from just kicking their feet up on a beach with all the money and making a crappy rocket or something.

The worst of all worlds is: public gives NASA huge budget so they have nothing to complain about, and then they waste the budget on garbage and kicking their feet up.

So, the principle of difficult accountability in free money government programs and ephemeral goals.

>>14804890
>It will cost much more than Starship, yes
Why would China care about cost? They own so much American money and property and revenue streams, they will build their Ctarchip on a week of American paid dividends alone

What are the odds of dearMoon happening before NASA or CNSA manage to orbit a crewed lunar mission?

It’s over …

>>14804886
The SLS was mainly created as a pork barrel project though, I think the CPC is serious about going to the Moon

>>14804916
>https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/241292938/#241297680
>https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/241292938/#241301753
Fucking hilarious.

>>14804929
The fix is to ban NASA from making their own rockets as anything other than test articles, like an orbital version of X-planes. The military pays a lot for its airplanes, but they actually get their money's worth most of the time, because they're built by private industry.

>>14804902
>I'm so glad I don't live in your universe where SpaceX doesn't exist.
We were talking about NASA, Americas space company. SpaceX is not America's company, it is a humans company who is living in America

>>14804867
I think the main SpaceX lead is the engines. How long until China has a Raptor equivalent? Do you think it would take more than 20 years (decades)?

>>14804942
This.
>>14804946
No, the conversation was about America and China.

>>14804946
You really have no idea how the US works, do you?

>>14804852
The Chinese space program is doing lots of things and has even more things on the drawing board, so there is lots of stuff for /sfg/ to talk about

>>14804948
>How long until China has a Raptor equivalent?
50 years at least.

>>14804916
>>14804922
>>14804928
Seethe mutts, keep waiting for old boomers to fix your old rocket.

https://youtu.be/l_nKrYDCdkY

>>14804959
Long March 9 design changed a few months ago.

>>14804959
>retard literally doesn't even know what China's actual current plans are
Unironically ban /pol/tards from every other board.

>>14804946
>it is a humans company who is living in America
Yeah, we have private industry you commie fuck

>>14804959
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特

NASA changed the engine bleed diameter after the green run test. Claim to be safe Christ.

https://nitter.net/NASA/status/1564296989571010567
@~17:30

>>14804894
They have many parallell projects by several organizations, some are at the Grasshopper stage, I doubt it will take 50 years

Depending on what CAST's secretive spaceplane project is, it might be that they have already reused an orbital-launch-capable booster without the second stage and recovered it
>>14804774

>>14804818
This. Be fruitful and multiply. It's OUR solar system.

>>14804959
Anon if you want to criticize china, the best thing to attack is the fact that LM9 is a paper dragon with an ever-changing design. It’s obvious you don’t even know this much though so maybe lurk more or go back to your stupid /g/ thread

>>14804860
>>14804880
>No, China is still using old tech
But this looks nice and fancy and neat, their space station stuff and design that post above the WebM.

Also as much as those old rockets, atlas 5 I think up thread with bells and whistles and style look really cool and inspiring, the streamlined minimal style of Chinese rockets simplicity is soothing

>>14804974
ok retard

>>14804936
>Why would China care about cost?
Because cost practically equates to labor hours and materials cost, on top of necessary investment into tooling and supply chains. Cost is cost, not just in terms of currency but in terms of reality. A system that costs less can do more with the same input effort.

Was anyone down there to watch it today? Me and my old NASA boomer dad might go and try watch it next time (assuming it's pushed back a few months like it's sounding it will be)

>>14804974
>>14804973
I dislike china’s politics but their rockets are kino. Nuff said.

>>14804965
Why is NASA making such a big deal out of a scrub lol

>>14804916
Holy fuck hahhahahahahaha they’re getting lazy with hiding it

>>14804957
Why do you think so?

>>14804829
Currently trying to decide whether to post funny mockery, professional sympathy, or nothing at all.

>>14804986
Because the chinese are notoriously shit at engine design, be it rocket or jet engines.
they're only now catching up to 50 year old soviet shit, and they've had access to soviet engines the entire time to copy from.

>>14804965
>>14804983
>Why is NASA making such a big deal out of a scrub lol

that they feel the need to put out statements like these shows how insecure they must feel about SLS as a whole, and also how political SLS has become.

>>14804941
>>14804916
Why does /pol/ shill China? Isn’t China full of Asians?????

>>14804992
I still can’t believe the shuttle flew 5 times a year on average yet SLS can barely do once per year. Totally bullshit.

>>14804990
You literally have no idea what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to rocket engines

>>14804936
The LM9 conservative variant is just to ensure schedule certainly for superheavy payloads. The LM9 reusable variant is the cost-saver. It doesn't matter much that LM9 conservative variant has greater variable cost per launch, because for the first few years it will only be launching technology demonstrators and verifications anyway, there won't be much demand yet for mass launch campaigns of superheavy payloads because they haven't been developed yet.

>>14804961
>>14804973
The design keeps changing because there IS no Long March 9, not yet anyway. Beijing hasn't funded any LM-9 project, and they're not going to think about starting until after they begin wrapping up their space station operations in a decade or so.

All of the designs we've seen have been (mostly) internal proposals from their various design bureaus that were put out there for promotional purposes. It's like if Korolev and Chelomei were going to aerospace conferences to hype up their version of a moon rocket in the hopes of getting more interest from the Kemlin.

>>14804965
>several things went right
lmao, what a sad cope

>>14804997
Keep coping, china has nothing even remotely like Raptor

inb4 you post more powerpoint slides with drawings of engines that don't exist

>>14804990
Hyberbolic technological growth it'll be 10 years.

>>14804990
retard, they took soviet first stage engines and pumped out more thrust at the cost of isp, what type of delusional la la land are you living in

>>14804914
And when exactly was Mir-2 designed? Because that's the chink fartbox.

>>14804974
>the streamlined minimal style of Chinese rockets simplicity is soothing
>>14804983
>I dislike china’s politics but their rockets are kino. Nuff said.
Nope, not giving an inch. Chinese rockets are as shitty and soulless as ISRO rockets and Jap rockets.

>>14804357
>yfw Bitcoin has more consistent behavior than SLS

>>14804990
I doubt Russia would sell China their trade secrets, Russia would want China to buy engines manufactured in Russia.

Apart from the YF-100/YF-115 ORSC engines, China developed their own turbofan engines to a level equivalent to Russian engines
https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/05/11/china-fields-j-10-jets-powered-by-homemade-engine/

China was an agrarian backwater 50 years ago, that isn't indicative of much. China, if anyone, is the land of rapid change.

>>14805004
>we iterated slightly on a 50 year old soviet engine, we'll have raptor equivalents any day now!
Lol. Lmao.

>>14804986
>turbopump has a giant U bend to connect the preburner and turbine outles gas manifold to the injector rather than just stacking the turbopump over the main chamber and straight piping it to the injector
NGMI

>>14804993
It garners easy (you)s

>>14805014
they definitely got tech through yuzhmash or a nork-yuzhmash pipeline, but yeah some stuff has been home grown and is actually pretty powerful

>>14805009
Jap rockets are at least honest about being shuttlestack/Delta IV knockoffs or tiny solids. China LARPs as the 1960s USSR and keeps their military launches inland as if we don't have total satellite overwatch on all their Village Dropper 9000 launches anyway.

bbc just grew by 10 meters

>>14805014
>I doubt Russia would sell China their trade secrets,
The Soviets and Russians have been selling jet engines to China for decades and China is only just now developing the ability to manufacture their own clones of these engines in the past few years. Even when they're copying an engine they have possession of, they're decades behind.

>>14805026
I’m so sick of musk throwing out bullshit that one person mentioned in a weekly starship meeting and that will never happen

>>14804942
>The fix is to ban NASA from making their own rockets as anything other than test articles, like an orbital version of X-planes. The military pays a lot for its airplanes, but they actually get their money's worth most of the time, because they're built by private industry.
I thought one of the negative talking points was the over expenses the 1000s of private industry contracts for parts?

Or you are saying, get 1 single private company to do it.

>>14805004
>retard, they took soviet first stage engines and pumped out more thrust at the cost of isp
That's really easy though, you change the nozzle throat to have a wider diameter. You get less chamber pressure (reduces Isp a bit) but higher mass flow rate because there's a greater pressure differential between high pressure pump outlet and chamber pressure inlet, which results in higher mass flow rate.

>>14805009
Japan literally got a license to build Delta rockets in the 80’s. Love those bastards

>>14805014
China is the land of rapid groundwater toxification

>>14805028
>Even when they're copying an engine they have possession of
How does having possession of the engine help you figure out how to manufacture the turbine blades

Reminder that SLS is quite literally just an upgraded Delta rocket

>>14805026
I don't care, make it thicker elon, come on, I want the 12m version back.

>>14805031
>t. boeing employee

>>14805032
That spreading across thousands of companies is a direct result of Congress getting involved. Private rocket design is like CRS or Commercial Crew, where NASA is given a fixed budget and pays someone else to build and launch the rocket with their payload/people on board.

>>14805041
>how does possession of a technological artifact help you reverse engineer it?
this is a new low even for a chink shill

>>14805031
you have to go back tourist. stretching the ship has been talked about for months.

>>14805019
What is the main drawback of that, how will it affect performance, and why might they have done it?

>>14805044
And they didn't call it the Delta V because Congress hates fun.

>>14805050
years, with no progress

>>14805026
Isn't the statement "at least five to ten" exactly equivalent to "at least five"?

>>14805031
The stack will have a TWR of like 1.6, high TWR is nice but 1.6 is pretty excessive, and also they could gain meters in height by stretching the payload bay section alone and change pretty much nothing about the rest of the vehicle.

>>14805049
I believe the secrets of the turbine blades are in the manufacturing methods, how do you figure out that from looking at the final product? You can look at the materials, monocrystal structure, coatings, cooling ducts, etc, in a microscope, does that tell you how to manufacture it?

In fact, China has access to the most advanced turbofan technology on commercial jets that land in China every day. If they can figure out the manufacturing techniques from looking at the engines, why would they look at Russian engines?

>>14805057
in the same way it’s equivalent to “at most ten,” yes

This almost gave me a heart attack.

>>14805064
>>I believe the secrets of the turbine blades are in the manufacturing methods
china went all in on industrial espionage, they have all the data they need. The problem is chinese engineers are substandard and always have been.

What if real life pulled a “for all mankind” and Starship and SLS ended up launching the same day? After todays scrub, this is at least in the ballpark of possibility now

>>14805041
>what is metallurgical assaying
>what is electron microscopy
>what is crystallography
Having the component in your hands is like having a puzzle with 95 pieces in place and 5 missing. If you still can't tell that it's a picture of a horse there's something wrong with your academic institutions.

>>14805050
it's been talked about for well over a year

>>14805045
18 meter Starship coming someday.
Maybe as an indigenous Mars orbital transport vehicle.

>>14804631
>How can we fund this?
>I wish I could answer that
GUYS JEFF NEEDS OUR MONEY

>>14804979
But doesn't everyone say China is communist bad guys, don't they have a lot of billionaires in the country they could shake down if they ever needed a bit more pocket cash?

>>14805075
>millions of people watching Starship launch
>thousands watching SLS

>>14805070
>they have all the data they need
How do you know? And is it so simple to do it, you just need the right zip file, no institutional experience required?

>>14805075
Realistically, Starship had a decent chance of fucking exploding on ascent. SLS working and not Starship would be sad

>>14805086
It is taking china longer to reverse engineer jet engines than it took Russia and America to design the originals in the first place.

>>14805051
>What is the main drawback of that,
Engine is slightly longer overall
>how will it affect performance
Higher TWR and less pressure drop from that turbopump's exit, also if that's the oxygen rich pump you reduce the amount of metal surface area in contact with hot oxygen, which makes that headache easier.
>why might they not have done it
All the old soviet engines have the turbopump hanging down the side with the big U pipe, and they follow Soviet engineering a lot. Why did the Soviets do it? I think it's because their first ORSC engine was an upper stage which needed to keep a short overall length for vehicle design reasons and that trend was just adopted continuously ever since.

>>14805076
>what is metallurgical assaying
>what is electron microscopy
>what is crystallography
Sounds more like you are trying tp play buzzword bingo, simply listing alternative words for "figure it out by looking at it", than trying to explain how they can figure these things out by looking at the final product.

>there's something wrong with your academic institutions.
Why does so few companies build the most advanced engines? The engines are easy to get hold of for almost everyone, they land all over the globe every day

>>14805087
What do you predict the issues with starship will be on assent? We know the orbiter at least has no difficulty at this phase of flight, and the booster has a fair amount of redundancy in the event of engine failure

>>14804983
>Why is NASA making such a big deal out of a scrub lol
Major hype and attention, news coverage, Twitter trending for hours before, all eyes on, people traveling hours to see, excitement, anticipation, first step towards sending humans back on the moon. Excitement, anticipation building, building.......deflated. let down

>>14805066
Either "at least five meters" or "five to ten meters", saying "at least five to ten meters" implies the upper bound on stretching is higher (say, 15 meters). I think he just wrote that in 3 seconds and posted it without obsessing over the semantics.

>>14805093
>what is electron microscopy
And again, of course they can see what the final product looks like, why does that mean they can know from that how it is made?

POSSIBLE STATIC FIRE TODAY

POSBLE

>>14804999
What rocket is China using to go to mars?

>>14805095
Stage 0 and the initial liftoff are still huge unknowns. Some transonic aerodynamic stuff is also unknown. My biggest fear other than the full stack exploding on the pad is some unseen vibration issue due to 33 engines nuking Superheavy. I think ID Starship OFT-1 makes it past Max Q it should work

>>14805083
All the money in the world can't buy you a fusion reactor right now because it doesn't exist. All the money in the world can't build you a yacht from scratch in a week. It's not about cash, like I said. It's about the maximum amount of labor productivity you can draw, and what you can do with that when you are working with an expendable system, versus someone else with less gross resources and manpower but a fully reusable rocket. The reusable rocket simply wins.

kek who are these chinks seething in the thread? did they actually come to watch SLS? LMAOO

>>14805090
Bullshit.

>>14805090
China was a scientific and economic backwater until recently, they didn't have many experienced engineers, and those they had tended to emigrate. The past is not linearly indicative of the future when there is exponential growth.

>>14805093
>Why does so few companies build the most advanced engines?
Skill issue.

What is he thinking right now?

>>14805129
thinkin about thos roggs

>>14805102
If you know exactly what is in an alloy that operates under extreme heat and pressure while exposed to oxygen, you can start making that alloy for yourself in great quantity and doing experiments. Nobody here is saying that you do an assay on a turbine blade and suddenly know how to make those blades, silly. They're saying that if you know the MATERIALS, that solves 99% of the problems, because for most of these applications finding the metal that doesn't literally catch fire and shit itself out of the engine requires trial and error, and when you're working with superalloys of a dozen or more elements that only work when mixed in proportions accurate to the tenth of a percent concentration, that trial and error can take a LONG time. As for figuring out growing single-crystal turbine blades, that's something you figure out by trying several approaches at once in a lab setting and fine tuning the trials until it works. For some reason, chinese insitutions are struggling with the easy part.
Also, just because I love SpaceX, I want to point out that while Chine has been struggling, SpaceX has built Raptor and currently pumping them out at a rate faster than other space agencies are capable of pumping out pressure fed hypergolic engines.

>>14805119
Why do only these few companies have the skills, why can't other companies figure out the skills by looking at the engines? Is it something wrong with their academic institutions, even if the other companies are in the same country?

>>14805132
>For some reason, chinese insitutions are struggling with the easy part.
The Chinese IQ meme is a result of them restricting who gets to take the test. Their actual intelligence is low on average.

>>14805117
>bugman "STEM"
>equal to the west
no
they literally get student riots whenever they try to stop mass cheating
additionally, chinese growth has been slowing down for years, and is now buckling under their stratospheric debt and economic mismanagement
their horrific demographic situation is just a further kick to the balls

>>14805057
>Isn't the statement "at least five to ten" exactly equivalent to "at least five"?
No. If I say: i ate at least 5 to 10 hamburgers is different than I ate at least 5 hamburgers

If I say the latter, I could have eaten 20 hamburgers.

The former I could not have ate more than 10.

5 to 10. Does the 'to', not make the cap?

At least 5 inches, implying, at most 10?

At least 5 inches, possibly to 10 inches.

It's not saying at least 10 inches l.

It's saying at least 5 inches. At most 10 inches?

I'm not sure, grammar can be tricky

>>14805061
>pretty excessive, and also they could gain meters in height by stretching the payload bay section alone and change pretty much nothing about the rest of the vehicle.
Isn't the only real reason to have such excessiveness, to carry more massive payload?

>>14805132
>They're saying that if you know the MATERIALS, that solves 99% of the problems
I believe that is exactly not the case. It is not enough to have the correct material, you need the correct microstructure of the material. Also, you need to shape the material carefully with coolant channels and nozzles within the blades and such, without disturbing the microstructure. As for the coatings, I assume they might need to be applied in a very precise manner to achieve the correct effect.

> As for figuring out growing single-crystal turbine blades, that's something you figure out by trying several approaches at once in a lab setting and fine tuning the trials until it works. For some reason, chinese insitutions are struggling with the easy part.
Monocrystals is 70s technology, that is not enough. I believe modern turbine blades are far more complex than just that, with various coatings and complex shapes.

>3 hour old thread
>already at bump limit
/sfg/ is healing… that or bloating

>>14805161
It's a natural consequence of SLS trying to launch.

>>14805161
We've been edging for days leading up to Artemis I, after the scrub all that pent up energy had to go somewhere.

>>14805132
>For some reason, chinese insitutions are struggling with the easy part.
Culture of corruption and fraud. Why do all that hard work when you can just lie and say you did?

>>14805150
All the metrics are showing rapid improvement, if they figured out a way to game the metrics, hard to tell.
https://www.science.org/content/article/china-rises-first-place-most-cited-papers
https://www.nature.com/nature-index/index.php/news-blog/fastest-rising-research-science-academic-institutions-nature-index-annual-tables-twenty-twenty

>>14805117
>he doesn't realize that the one child policy has already destroyed China

>>14805134
>Is it something wrong with their academic institutions, even if the other companies are in the same country?
Yes.

>>14805155
>Does the 'to', not make the cap?
No, it doesn't, because the initial statement "at least" means you are not sure of the LOWER BOUND, not that you're unsure of the range. Are you ESL?

>>14805111
>My biggest fear other than the full stack exploding on the pad is some unseen vibration issue due to 33 engines nuking Superheavy.

What are the best ways they can test and prevent this from happening?

The booster has flown solo, starship has flown solo, no way to test them flying together but to try huh? Simulations?

>>14805157
If there's a reason, it's not excessive. And no, not really more massive payloads, bigger payloads.

>>14805076
no, it's like having puzzle with 95 pieces and you are trying to figure out dimensions of the paper cutting machine and what material the die are made of
it's one thing to figure out how it works and what it's made of
actually copying the production line is the hard part

like you could feasibly make 1:1 replica of say, a pistol with hand files and dedicated craftsman, but that's not going to work for mass production
jet engine is much more precise than that

>>14805180
I really am interested to see what happens to China. They're basically in the same situation Japan was in except far less developed and mature of an economy.

>>14805134
>Why do only these few companies have the skills, why can't other companies figure out the skills by looking at the engines? Is it something wrong with their academic institutions, even if the other companies are in the same country?
>>14805182
>Yes
Could it be those companies have so out in front dominated the market there is no motivation to try to compete with them? They've got it covered

>>14805180
>he doesn't realize it's not year 1750 anymore, and skill, tools, machinery, infrastructure, organization is far more important than raw headcount
If working age population is the important thing, why wasn't India and China already superpowers since long ago?

>>14805203
Also they're way more authoritarian and have a way worse demographics crisis.

>>14805211
The ratio of young people to old people is what matters. China has too few young people due to two generations of the 1 child policy.

>>14805217
They'll just ignore them and kill the unruly ones.

>>14805184
>No, it doesn't, because the initial statement "at least" means you are not sure of the LOWER BOUND
Don't know if that's entirely true.

If someone says it's supposed to rain at least 5 to 10 inches today they are not implying it could rain 500 inches

At least 5 inches
To possibly 10 inches.


What would be the point of making the rocket 5 inches taller anyway?

>>14804965
>several things went right today
This "praise" is more damning than any insult.

What happens here?

>>14805218
bai lan

>>14805221
>Don't know if that's entirely true.
Well I do.

Booster 7 static fire prepping

>>14804942
this, NASA should resemble the NOAA which doesn't build ships but gets them made to order by those who do

>>14805231
sex

>>14805231
i thought they used it as an office

>>14805244
NASA will commission a couple of Starships and outfit them for their own purposes, similar to that one infrared telescope they had mounted in a jet that time.

>>14805217
Yet what if those young people are 10 times more productive than before? The ratio of producers to dependents doesn't matter, the ratio of *production* to dependents matters. China has high youth unemployment and still has a ton of uneducated peasants, they're not going to run out of people working in nursing homes.

>>14805203
Collapse. China is a pile of bad economic policy weighed down by corruption and held together with Orwellian repression and duct tape, and the tape is shitty off-brand from a factory in Tianjin.

I'm more interested in China's long term space prospects. The LM-2/3/4 are limited in their capacity, but they remain nicely economical for as long as they can share costs and equipment with the DF-5A ICBM production line. The problem is that China is starting to move towards solid fuel ICBMs which is going to make the costs of China's most prolific launchers spike in cost like Titan did in the 1980s. China has a bunch of solid fuel launchers based on their newer ballistic missile work, but none of them can of replace the lifting capabilities of the lower number LMs and the LM-5/6/7 don't seem capable of matching their flight rate. China is going to need a cheap, high-cadence, high-capacity launch vehicle in the next 5-10 years if they want to maintain their current rate of growth.

>>14805084
I think the views were spread out across multiple streams, and boomers watching it on cable news. Granted NASA didn’t exactly advertise this with a distinct date and time

>>14804942
SLS is their last rocket anyway.

Unironically what the fuck is wrong with YouTube comments?

>>14805101
Ohhhhh, yeah I see your point. He definitely meant “anywhere from 5 to 10”