/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14763578
Your application of the concept is stupid because you're conflating an ability to imagine with your personal experience with a term as a static variable.

anyone who says anything other than 3/4 is fishing for attention

>>14763595
I can vividly imagine colors and shapes, down to texture. Why would I be lying?

>>14763605
it's a twitter copy pasta
>>14763592
you fell for trolling

>>14763616
>you fell for trolling
Damn. It do be like that.

>>14763619
frfr

>>14763605
>I can vividly imagine colors and shapes, down to texture
wow, aren't you special

>>14763578
I am in the non of the above category. The human brain does not process images internally as an array of 2d pixels. The abstract rendition of an apple that exists inside my mind can not be represented by any physically realizable image.

>>14763640
>I am in the none of the above category.

No, you're a 5. There are only 5 categories.

>>14763640
Fairly sure imagining pictures creates activity in the same areas of the brain as actual visual stimulus. So that's wrong.

>>14763697
>Fairly sure
I'm fairly sure you're some faggot who just says things on the internet

>>14763595
*retweets*

>>14763697
Unless you literally hallucinate what you imagine, then this is not the case. Imagination typically happens at a deeper stage, one in which there are no pixels, but instead highly processed extracted features. This is why its so hard to draw, because 2d images do not exist inside the brain.

>>14763713
>This is why its so hard to draw because 2d images do not exist inside the brain.
for you

>>14763578
You're a 5 because anyone who misunderstands this illustration the way you do is a bot with no qualia.

>>14763640
>I am in the non of the above category.
You're a 5.

>>14763713
>literally hallucinate
You're a 5.

Anyone who read into this anything more than the plain, face-value implications is aphantasic and probably lacks consciousness. The way you overcompensate exposes you.

>>14763756
>probably lacks consciousness
Having the ability to self excite your low-level visual processing stages has nothing to do with consciousness. If anything it means that you are borderline schizo, and might start seeing things that aren't really there at any moment. I quite like it that what I see is always real, and that I don't have to worry about hallucinating at any moment.

>>14763578
Really, what they depict as 1 (a static image) should really be 2.
The actual 1 would be the same degree of detail but variable e.g. making the apple spin, rotate, zoom in and out, et cetera.

I can see a proper apple, hold it in my hand, feel it, even bite into it. I'm surprised this isn't something you all can do.
just imagine it lol

>>14763767
Low-sentience take.

>>14763767
NPC cope

>>14763767
Idiotic cope. The "mind's eye" is not a hallucination; it is quite literally like a third eye that cannot be confused with what you are actually seeing, because it's your "mind's eye" is seeing it and not your real eyes.

>>14764053
Anything that evolves the visual processing stages is either real sight or hallucination. I can imagine things perfectly well, but my minds eye operates after the visual processing stages. So my visualization is not based on 2d images, but rather abstract image fragments and features. Its an experience that has no external world equivalent, and cannot be described by a 2d image.

>>14764239
>Anything that evolves the visual processing stages is either real sight or hallucination.
Nevermind that you're aphantasic. You're not even capable of a rational or coherent thought process.

>>14764239
Mental images are not just abstract conceptualizations, they are visual qualia. But they are not hallucinations because, again, they are seen by the "mind's eye", or basically the brain translating its own thoughts into the language that 60% of the brain uses, visual stimuli.

>>14764296
Maybe I am different to you but my visual qualia comes only from my visual processing stages. And when I am awake that brain area can only take input from my eyes. Only when I am asleep/hallucinating, can I experience visual qualia of non-real things.

>>14764329
>And when I am awake that brain area can only take input from my eyes
>Only when I am asleep/hallucinating, can I experience visual qualia of non-real things.
And that is called aphantasia.

>>14764329
>my visual qualia comes only from my visual processing stages
That's called aphantasia.

>>14764329
So you admit you're a 5?

>>14764433
Don't children have a more vivid imagination than adults? In a way at least.
That anon seems like he would be incapable of playing pretend with himself or having imaginary friends.

>>14764472
So you agree that he's a 5?

>>14764476
I think normal 5 years olds are more capable of imagining pictures than he is

>>14764472
Playing pretend does not require one to see shit that is not there. Never had an imaginary friend though, that shit is literally insanity, like some kind of accidental tulpa.

>>14765109
No, it's actually quite normal. It's very common and kids grow out of it. There's no real evidence that it's damaging to the child in any way.

>>14766047
It's also not required to be a 1 on the scale. I can vividly recall all 5 senses about an object but never had imaginary friends because I thought the idea was silly since I had real friends.

>>14763578
None of these apply to me since when I think of an apple I imagine it existing in 11 dimensions.

>>14763578
no, if "apple" makes you think of superman, you're retarded

>>14766176
>le ultimate anime protagonist activates all dimensions with this one simple trick

itt: stemcels showing their hand and own goaling themselves with their lack of artistic talent

>Don't children have a more vivid imagination than adults? In a way at least. That anon seems like he would be incapable of playing pretend with himself or having imaginary friends
>I think normal 5 years olds are more capable of imagining pictures than he is

There's an autist in the thread who thought the numbers in the picture referred to ages rather than levels of aphantasia. I wonder how many other autists thought that?

>>14767295
It was me. But it wasn't about the numbers in the OP. I thought the anon was accusing the aphantasia guy of being a 5 year old to which I replied that I believe that 5 year olds are pretty imaginative, more so than him.

>>14763578
>>>/x/

Just one question out of curiosity. Those of you who jerk yourselves off because you answer 1: are you the same stemcels who jerk themselves off because psychology is not a real science? No, sorry, two questions. Do some of you actually, genuinely, believe that NPCs are real or are you just playing dumb for reasons of lame banter?

>>14767916
I don't know what your post is all about because your nigger-tier thought process is so disjointed, but I want to ask you a question of y own: if NPCs don't exist, what are you?

>>14767924
A brainlet with a severely impaired working memory, being unable to piece together a complex sentence, calls my thought processes nigger-tier? That's rich.

>>14767932
>I'm a brainlet with a severely impaired working memory
Sorry to hear that. Try to take one thing at a time instead of trying to string together every single thing you're butthurt about into a single complaint.

>>14763629
>‘literally nobody can do this thing’
>‘but I can do this thing’
>‘okay? that doesn’t make you special’
NPCs usually give preprogrammed responses.

>>14763592
I came here to post this, but not in such a concise fashion.

There's no model where the Christopher Reeves superman beats the Fleischer Superman in terms of "realness." If you picture the cartoon Superman it just means that's the model you're most familiar with. If you ask me to picture Wolverine, I'm probably going to picture a Jim Lee drawing because that's where my familiarity lay, since Hugh Jackman didn't come along until I was like 18.

>>14767916
>believe that NPCs are real
I only assume that other people are conscious because they claim to be so. If some people claim to don't have a consciousness, and demonstrate a lack of understanding for what it is, what am I supposed to believe?

>>14767946
stop responding to those subhuman retards. They can't imagine, they admit that. From this, you know that they cannot think, therefore, their experiences are not valid - they were not lived by anyone - they are not people. You are free to compare these things to large rodents or particularly stupid felines. Horses, dogs, octopi etc can image, some of them can plan, it is widely held that many of them may think at some low level, yet the person you replied to obviously lacks this ability. Waste your time with redditors no longer.

>>14763578
anyone who claims 2 has a severe mental disability, for which the state should provide them adequate care before they shoot up a school or shit all over the supermarket or whatever. 3-5 puts you worse off than apes, but at least at that level you probably aren't capable of grasping objects, tying your own shoes, or navigating to a public place.

>>14767916
I don't think being an NPC relates to visualization. If I ask someone to imagine the intimate physical details of something they saw a day ago, every single person I ask will most likely manage it. It's basic object permanence. A lot of people don't eat apples every day, but I bet they could envision their sneakers or a favorite hat. Even basic memory of some time you held an apple in the grocery store seems to satisfy OP's criteria.

How can you be anything but a 1 (if you're a normal human) or a 5 (if you're a rock or a piece of bread)

>>14769078
>2
weebs
>3
people with monochromatic vision
>4
Blind people
>?
this guy >>14766176

>>14763578
I can close my eyes and have a mental image of my choice seize my visual field as in open-eyed sight, visual hallucinations, and dreams. But I spent most of my life not being able to do this and had to discover my own non-psychedelic techniques to switch on the ability. Strangely, a couple of dudes who told me about aphantasia and how I had it have been begging me for the techniques, but I haven't spilled because I'm hoping there's money to be made somewhere.

>>14763578
I googled this question, "Close your eyes and imagine an apple, which one do you see", the question is accompanied by the picture. So I can just imagine whatever apple I want, what's the problem? I can imagine a high-quality apple like in 1, a low-quality apple like 4, or nothing like 5... literally what is the issue? What is the question getting at?

>>14764296
I can tell by your wording that you have aphantasia but have convinced yourself that you don't. The difference between a hallucination and an imaginary image in a non-NPC brain is quite simply that a hallucination is unintentional and an imaginary image is intentional.

>>14764329
Don't the aggressive replies suggest anything to you? Jeezus, man.

>>14769124
Hyperphantasia.

aphantasia => 0.8 - 3.9% of the population
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia

hyperphantasia => ~2.5% of the population
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperphantasia

But I believe anything less than hyperphantasia is simply another shade of aphantasia. I have encountered some folks who troll the aphantasia thing but are then gobsmacked to hear about hyperphantasia, realizing that they really are NPCs.

>>14769146
This. The aphantasia/NPC test is simply this:

If you see a real apple on the table and then imagine a second apple next to it, there should be no visual difference between the two apples, and you should be seeing the two apples as you would two real apples. There's only your knowledge that one is real and one is imaginary.

>>14763578
>Missing the point this hard

Not sure if double digit IQ or troll.

>>14764296
>He can't visualize his waifu sitting next to him.

lol.

lmao.

Imagine being an NPC and never knowing such joys.

You know in the TV series The Queen's Gambit where the lead character is imagining a chess position on the ceiling and playing through it, seeing it as if she's seeing it with her eyes? My experience is that people who have aphantasia think that this is some kind of metaphor, that she's not really seeing it "there" as if with her eyes.
The funny thing is that many people with aphantasia will see dreams "there" as if with their eyes but not be able to do that with their imagination, and the word 'daydreaming', which is essentially the faculty of imagination, doesn't make them stop and think.

>>14769184
yeah man idk what to think anymore- i used to believe I didn't have aphantasia because I felt like I could imagine things pretty vividly. To give some context, when I imagine an old memory I can walk around in the place I'm thinking of and "see" all the colors and more vaguely the forms in my head. When I'm reading too, the whole thing just unconsciously plays out like a movie and I can recall those scenes to my mind. Also just zoning out on walks I'll realize I've just been picturing mental images the whole time instead of actively processing my surroundings. I used to think I just had a low ability to memorize forms as, when drawing and painting, the general scene and the colors would be completely replicable on paper from what was in my mind but the specific forms and lines would be "unusable" and too vague to actually picture.
Reading stuff like >>14769124
though and a few other testimonies of people who
unlocked the ability to project their mental images on their visual field has given me pause though. Ofc the op image is pretty terrible in this regard because it doesn't account for any difference (shouldn't the apple be outside the head if the visualizations are like hallucinations?) so I can see why people would get confused. Also, I'm not exactly sure I would even want to visualize in this way because it seems to be veering a bit too close to schizo territory (please other anons who have this ability correct me if I'm wrong about this).
Nonetheless, I really am extremely dissatisfied with my ability to visualize and recall forms, although weirdly colors are more than good enough even just in my non-hyperphantasic mental images, so I'll keep trying to develop it and see what paths it leads me down

>>14769233
>what it looks like when a bot overcompensates

>>14769214
I'm not sure why, but this topic has been shilled on /sci/ for weeks, just try to ignore them

>>14769347
>i'm a 4

>>14769233
>many people with aphantasia will see dreams
Well of course, dream vision replaces your real vision, its either one or the other. People who claim to see what they Imagination often say its separate from your vision. I have only one visual cortex, I have no idea what kind of mutant freaks those people are having a second visual cortex for imagination.

>>14769996
You have aphantasia just like the overcompensating bot you're replying to, assuming you're not samefagging.

>>14763578
It's about the level of detain you speg.
Does your catroon Superman have laces on his shoes?

For me in get a pretty generic image when I think of something but I can choose to add detail by thinking about it.
I mostly use it for planning things I physically construct so don't need a great deal of detail.

>>14769338
>what it looks like when a sensitive NPC with aphantasia who thought he was just trolling people realizes it's no joke

>>14772134
You are seething and foaming at the mouth over getting caught.

>>14770005
Again, you see "overcompensating" only because you're an NPC with aphantasia who's trolling people and who thinks everyone else is trolling. I called out your kind here >>14769184:
>But I believe anything less than hyperphantasia is simply another shade of aphantasia. I have encountered some folks who troll the aphantasia thing but are then gobsmacked to hear about hyperphantasia, realizing that they really are NPCs.
You can look up "hyperphantasia" yourself and see that it's no troll.

>>14772145
See >>14772140

>>14772140
Sigh, whatever, NPC.

>>14772148
Refer to >>14772150.

>>14772150
>>14772155
We both know you're a 5 and you're losing your mind over it. I'm content with this thought so this is your last (You). Note how you will reply again because your only comfort is sperging off on the internet.

>>14772166
>Note how you will reply again
Congrats on the NPC attempt at reverse psych.
But we both know that you've been sitting here in a state of panic ever since realizing that it's really no troll and that you really are mentally deficient. One has only to look at the timestamps to see how you've been glued to this thread ever since realizing you're broken:
>>14770005 (you)
>>14772134 (me)
>>14772140 (replies immediately)

Imagine reading a book and not automatically seeing everything as a movie in your mind. How depressing.

>>14769161
so that's why aphantasia threads seem to attract the most vicious posters on this board, huh?
little redneck nobodies with buck teeth lashing out in impotent rage at coastal chads...

>>14772945
At least those poor aphantasics can read Franny K. Stein and Captain Underpants.

>>14763713
>2d images do not exist inside the brain
>Putting yourself as an npc

>>14773908
aphantasics are superior. Our brains are so powerful we don't need a disgusting soul to be able to function. We are our own masters, we bow down to no one, and live our life without any consequences, you lesser beings are slaves to, and will have to answer to god when you die. We live as we want, and when we die we go to the void.

>>14774020
>trying to cope with humor, not realizing that humans with a functioning imagination don't find it at all funny that they have to exist in a world full of npc automatons

>>14774565
>in a world full of npc automatons

Aphantasics make up 2% of the population.

>>14768041
You can imagine without an image. For example blind people have imaginations but dont know what an image is

>>14776889
Not him, but anything less than hyperphantasia is NPC-grade. See >>14769184. Notice how hyperphantasia is erroneously referred to as a disorder in the Wikipedia article. This is the NPC Aristotelian prejudice of the happy medium rearing its head again. The correct analogy is with something like physical attractiveness. Nobody considers being a 9-10/10 a disorder.

>>14763605
>color texture
Wow, light reflected off of surfaces has texture now. What will they think of next.

>>14763895
This, just imagined a green field behind it and me pulling the apple to my face and biting it in POV

I suspect I have a less vivid than usual visual imagination, but since I can't experience someone else's experiences there is no way for me to tell conslusively.

All I can say is that my waking "mind's eye" is much less vivid than my dreams, which I often mistake for reality.

>>14777282
>The correct analogy is with something like physical attractiveness. Nobody considers being a 9-10/10 a disorder.
Nobody experiences significant distress from being a 9-10. Hyperphantasia, on the other hand, is pretty horrific for fathers of young children. Vividly envisioning all the ways your children can be killed is very effective at motivating you to keep them safe, but it's also a years-long walking nightmare.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if frequent ordinary nightmares were also correlated with hyperphantasia, they certainly are in my case.

>>14763578
The word "superman" makes me think of fags who like capeshit

>>14763578
No, but if that picture makes you come up with that explanation you're a 90

in the IQ scale that is

>>14777282
Nobody considers vivid imagination to be a disorder unless it's so vivid that it's disruptive to the individual himself, drooling retard. That is the citerion for hyperphantasia.

>>14777881
Spoken like a true NPC robot with no control over his already-weak imagination.

>>14777915
Seethe, brainlet.

>>14777921
See >>14777915

>>14777788
>Vividly envisioning all the ways your children can be killed
Have you tried not envisioning this, you sicko? Maybe get more self-control.

>>14777926
You will never see with your mind's eye. You will never have an insight. You will never have an education. You will never be an intellectual. You will never have sex.
You might as well kill yourself today. :^)

>>14777939
>absolute meltdown
See >>14777915

>>14777940
>i have aphantasia and i'm losing my mind over it
Sorry to hear that.

>>14777934
Get back to me once you're a father.

>>14763578
What if I can do 1 but most of the time just for a short period of time? The imagery is pretty much Perfect but dissolves into some random mix of colours or changes to a bit less clear seemingly random object
It is rather rare for me to hold a 1 image for more than 5 seconds and I usually have to just bring the image back every 1-2 seconds after it dissolves and it takes focus and effort

>>14777952
>the "no u" of the aphantasia NPC
See >>14777915

>>14777977
Learn some self-control, sicko. You probably have a psychosis, not hyperphantasia. We hyperphantasia Chads with functional self-control don't go around at the mercy of our imaginations.

>>14777997
Sounds as if it might be curable aphantasia, but I don't want to get your hopes up that you could overcome your disability. Work at it, and see what happens.

>>14773861
>among us

>>14778164
Again, you aren't a father. You've never had another human life completely and utterly reliant upon you for safety. You don't understand the responsibility that entails, and you have no idea what hardships you would willingly endure to fulfill that duty.

If you possess the capacity to predict a risk to your child but fail to do so because the process of prediction is subjectively painful, you deserve to lose your child.

>>14778177
I think I can do something between 2 and 3 no problem but 1 is also possible for a limited amount of time so I'm wondering if I'm 1 or lower all things considered

>>14778177
Also, how do work on it?

>>14774020
>Our brains are so powerful we don't need a disgusting soul to be able to function.
You're like an incel pretending to not need a woman only because he can't tame them.

>>14778371
You don't.

>>14763605
>Why would I be lying?
You're not lying, you're just too close to median human IQ to realize you are merely evoking a feeling that there are shapes in your head with texture. There's no actual mental image. You, and every human, are a 5 and just don't realize it.
It's like vividly imagining a large math problem written on a piece of paper, down to the texture of the paper and pencil marks. Now imagine solving that problem. You can't imagine that at all, it's all gibberish, the reason you can't solve it in your head despite imagining it is because you are not actually imagining that image, you are just imagining feelings associated with prior math problems you've seen on paper and placing them in fairly correct relative spatial location in your head.

>>14763713
This anon gets it. The insecure /pol/ tourists of course have to invent reasons he's wrong because they need to invent reasons to feel superior to the darkies, so their mental superpower must be real.
>>14769146
>I can tell by your wording that you have aphantasia
I agree with him and my brain would light up an electroencephalogram if someone asked me to imagine what an apple looks like. Probably might even have eye movement if they told me to visualize two apples next to each other. There is no test for "aphantasia" except correlating low brain activity in people who aready have low brain activity (ie morons). These morons are more likely to say they don't imagine things due to being morons, so SCIENCE! decides an imaginary condition called as aphantasia exists.
I had tons of imagined fantasy worlds as a child that would evoke imagery mostly from sci fi movies and tv shows and some of my sci fi toys.

>>14763578
Can someone tell me how is it like to fap being a 1 chad?

>>14763578

>>14779584
>>14779613
Jesus, just say you're 5's and be done with it instead of writing butthurt blogposts.

>>14779638
When you're not an NPC, there's no difference between what a VR headset can give you with porn and what your imagination can give you. I was always puzzled why VR headsets sold until I heard about aphantasia.

>>14779613
not just any /pol/ tourist, pre-2016 /pol tourist

>>14779613
>The insecure /pol/ tourists of course have to invent reasons he's wrong because they need to invent reasons to feel superior to the darkies, so their mental superpower must be real.
They might not be lying, desu. It's not news that /pol/ attracts everyone from the psychedelic lolbertarian to the psychotic schizophrenic.

>>14780244
>Jesus, just say you're 5's
I literally said that in the post, retard:
>You, and every human, are a 5 and just don't realize it
>>14780247
>dumb coomer thinks people only buy VR for porn
>>14780391
Yeah most anons who think "aphantsia" is a real thing are probably like this gentlemen irl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IehtMYlOuIk

>>14763595
>all minds are the same
>all inner experiences are the same

Most people don't even dream, bro.

>>14763578
I'm not saying I agree with your meme but if superman was real then yes, but he is a fictional character so it's valid to imagine him as any of his interpretations.

>>14779638
It's good, but the main inefficiency isn't so much the visual element, but that you can't visually come up (by definition) with scenarios that you aren't already thinking about. Novelty is an important part of porn/erotica.
>>14780247
You are an idiot, either a troll or aphantasiac LARPing as a non-aphant. Visual eye qualia and mind's eye qualia are completely different and non-equivalent (though isomorphic to each other).

>>14783386
That anon might be schizophrenic.

>>14782178
What movie?

>>14763595
you really can't imagine color?

>>14782178
>I literally said that in the post, retard:
and be done with it
and be done with it
and be done with it
retard

>>14783386
Shut up, NPC bot. People are tired of you damaged losers trying to project your damage onto others.

>>14779749
this

>>14782178
>Yeah most anons who think "aphantsia" is a real thing
holy aphantasia cope
>>14783386
>Visual eye qualia and mind's eye qualia are completely different and non-equivalent (though isomorphic to each other).
holy aphantasia cope
w-w-w-w-whoa, he said "isomorphic"... w-w-w-w-whoa....

>>14763713
>its so hard to draw
anon...

.

>>14780247
>>14784379

Seek help.

>>14769347
It's one of the few topics that /pol/tards obsess over.

>>14784587
>reddit spacing
It all makes sense. You have to go back.
Feel free to have a booster on your way out.

>>14784627
Are these /pol/tards in the room with us right now?

>>14763595
>>14763578
I used to be a 1 when I was a child/teen
Through years of hard work, and by hard work I mean drinking and taking drugs, I have now become a 3, a 2 on a good day when I'm sober
Don't do drugs, especially weed or speed.

>>14784635
this board has been infested with them since the drumpf elections

>>14784641
the entire world is slowly becoming /pol/, better get used to it now

>>14784656
More like 4chan has become become normalized and accessible to average retards who bring their shit personalities here

>>14784656
>the entire world is slowly becoming /pol/
They could never have imagined what they would unleashed upon the world.

Dumb brainlet opinions:
- nobody can image anything and anyone who claims otherwise is a schizo or stupid
- people who can't visualize can't think and are npcs

Valid opinions:
- not everyone is capable of everything equally well so aphantasia might exist
- we will never accurately know other peoples thought processes
- visualizing is just one form of thinking out of many

>>14784764
>i'm a solid 4
Oh.

>>14784371
>I was only pretending to be stupid with the first thing just focus on the other thing I said
>>14784390
>holy aphantasia cope
I'm superior than you in every single way. I don't need to pretend I have magic mental superpowers to ease my insecurity. Everyone is a 5 and you are simply too close to median human IQ to understand your brain is making you think you see high fidelity images in your mind. You are not. I thought I was a 1 the first time I saw this silly meme. But my superior intelligence made me realize what is actually going on.

>>14784779

>>14779584
I have played chess blindfolded since I was like 12. I can definitely see the pieces and track their positions, I'm not just remembering the feeling of plastic and smell of fake leather and convincing myself that that's the same experience.

>>14763595
Just practice man, that's all It takes. Helps to not lose it In the first place also.
Also, cope, and seethe.

>>14777310
This, I just imagined a man plucking me from a tree in a field and taking a bite of me, the scent of my sugary blood filled my senses as my abdomen was rent twine. The crunch of my flesh making a loud cracking sound as the thunder splits the sky. I'm broken and resigned to suffer until the man finishes his meal.

>>14784635
I have the ability to imagine clearly the brownness of a poltards skin.

>>14784764
>aphantasia might exist

But it does?...

>>14772945
There's a good reason why most people don't and can't read books very well.

Nothing actually plays out in their mind's eye. Math is way easier if you can visualize as well.

IMAGINE an apple
Lmao couldn't be me

>>14784880
>I can definitely see the pieces
>source: trust me bro
I understand that you feel that you see things in your head just like every other person in this thread who "claims" they can. Again, you can't actually see them. The math test is proof of this.
>and track their positions
I specifically acknowledged people can place these mistaken feelings in correct spatial locations. You've introduced no new knowlege to me, you are just repeating the same empty claim. You'd fail miserably if you tried to "see" a different game, like Chinese checkers (limited to 73 spaces so it's basically no more info than a chess board) despite it being very similar "mental visualization" complexity. That failure is yet another proof you can't actually see things in your mind, you're just subconsciously creating elaborate memory schemes via practice.
>I'm not just remembering the feeling of plastic and smell of fake leather and convincing myself that that's the same experience
Pic related is an excellent visualization of what is actually going on in your head. Each dot represents the feeling of seeing what you expect to see, in a specific spatial location, if you use your eyes. When they are put together it significantly feels like you see something, but you aren't. We can change those dots in our minds into different feelings, like spots maybe, and then you'd imagine a spotted deer. It has nothing to do with convincing yourself, it has to do with realizing your brain is effectively tricking you into thinking you see something in your mind.

>>14772145
>I called out your kind here
another /pol/tard escaped containment and needs to create pseudoscience excuses that he's the master race and others are beneath him because he's got nothing else going on and he needs to assuage his debilitating insecurity

>>14784791
>I'm superior than you in every single way.
Then why do I know it's "superior to," not "superior than," and you don't? Because you're a mental-midget NPC -- that's why. Enjoy your aphantasia, bot.

>>14779584
>>14779613
>>14784791
>>14785408
>>14785427
lmao, the thread was fairly even and then suddenly blows up with a tight cluster of blog posts using similar arguments/insults. 20 to 1 some salty NPC has lost his shit.

>>14785408
>Pic related is an excellent visualization of what is actually going on in your head.
When I imagine a deer I don't see it like the left, I see the right. I can even smell fresh grass and wet fur if there's nothing to smell at the moment, and feel moe from looking at the deers face closely.

>>14784791
>I don't need to pretend I have magic mental superpowers to ease my insecurity.

All this projection, just because you are cannot comprehend that others have different levels of vividness and experiences doesn't mean they do not exist. There are MANY people on Earth who are blind blockheads that's inner experience is mostly just darkness nor can they even dream.
Some people do in fact have good imaginations, dream, conceptualization and visualization abilities because they have trained it for years and have that good shaman blood.

Hollywood train their cinematographers on it with image-streaming.
Greek bard could visualize entire memory palaces so they could recite epic poems.
The best scientists can actually debate opposing views in their mind's eye.
The best musicians actually visualize their music in color called synesthesia.
Einstein and Tesla both made their discoveries via visualizing them first.

Not having a mind's eye and dreams is a disability.

>>14786284
>All this projection, just because you are cannot comprehend that others have different levels of vividness and experiences doesn't mean they do not exist.
This. That seething robot probably thinks that chess masters who give blindfold simuls with two dozen boards just mentally talk themselves through positions.

>>14784764
You are pretty dumb. Neural ability is not like some shooter game loadout where you pick between different semi-balanced classes. Non-aphants have the ability to visualize next to regular thinking abilities. Ergo, aphants are of lesser mental ability and mental cripples, and thus worthy of scorn.

>>14786750
Why should they be scorned for something that they did not chose?

>>14786761
Their either implicit or explicit "I don't geddit lmao" thoughts whenever you try to have a conversation with them that requires visualization annoy me.

>>14786106

I can imagine whatever I want in high resolution but I have a problem with moving things. I can do it If I concentrate, but eventually they will start jiggling around, turning when I don't want them to

Anyone relates?

If I'm a 1 should I kill myself?

>>14786854
Correction *5

>>14786106
>I see the right.
No, your brain tricks you into thinking the feelings on the left are actually seeing the right. The math test, among many many others, proves you aren't seeing anything. Some people are better at this and have more neuron activity when imagining a deer. That is where the silly nonsense "correlation equals causality" fallacy comes from that is used to "prove" "aphasia" really exists.
I do the same thing, it truly *feels* like I'm seeing a deer and I originally believed I was a 1 in OP chart, but more introspection made me realize what is going on. You should try to do it too.
>and feel more
Exactly. It's just a feeling that you see something and since most people who believe in aphantasia are very close to median human IQ they can't tell the difference.
>>14786093
Your insecurity is a amazing and verifies exactly what I said. Have a cookie for pointing out I made an obvious mistake due to typing 90 wmp.
>>14786284
>All this projection
I don't need to pretend I have mental superpowers to ease my insecurity like you do. "Aphantasia" has been pseudoscience for 100 years like it should be and suddenly in the reddit generation it's "totally real bro".... no.
The rest of your post I didn't read goes into the trash

>>14786851
>turning when I don't want them to
>Anyone relates?
I know about this, but it's is related to mental stuff, not your imagination. I also had a problem when I would imagine characters and they would start dancing silly dances by themselves, or I rotated a thing and then couldn't stop it. It's anxiety and OCD. The reason why it keeps happening is because you keep it happening by being unable to stop thinking about it, even though you don't want it to be that way. Somewhat related: I was reading an article about violent thoughts and it said that all people have them the same, but people with anxiety turn them into a compulsion by not wanting to think about them, which is a way of thinking about them. The normal person:
>has an intrusive thought about their family being murdered in a break in
>thinks about something else and moves on
Person with anxiety:
>has an intrusive thought about their family being murdered in a break in
>imagines the corpses and the smell of blood in detail
>tries to not think about that, thus he's thinking about it
>stuck with visions of an hypothetical crime scene for the rest of the day
>check your doors and windows are alright
>the fact that you had to check adds more weight to the fantasy
>30 minutes go by
>maybe I should check the doors and windows again just in case
The next time you can't stop rotating an apple in your mind, just materialize an imaginary dick and start cumming on it (the apple) while saying "My seed commands you to stop". Something really fun happens if you imagine that; enjoy.

>>14786134
First response here >>14786874 was for you.

>>14786769
>they annoy me so they should be scorned

>>14786874
>imagination is a super power

Maybe for you but for me it's just a normal day.

>>14786874
Can you hear music in your mind or do you think that is fake too

>>14787141
He probably can produce sounds in his head, otherwise, he wouldn't be able to read these posts since reading requires mental pronunciation.

>>14784641
>>14784656
Turns out killing truth is pretty hard.

>>14787258
>reading requires mental pronunciation
How do deaf people read? Also I was asking about music, not about inner speak

>>14786874
Bro you are a psycho. I know several mechanical/hydraulic engineering dudes who can visualize complex shapes and gears and shit and move them around in their head and that's how they solve problems with what they're working on. That's real, not some subjective "feeling about color textures."

>>14763592
>static
speak for yourself, my superman was in motion, supermanning that ho(your mom)

>>14763767
Hallucinating is fuckin awesome.

>>14763767
>I quite like it that what I see is always real

That's what all the crazies say.

>>14787436
No, only the British ones.

>>14787141
>Can you hear music in your mind or do you think that is fake too
It's a false feeling of hearing it in the same way everyone has a false feeling of seeing things in their mind, but yes. I can read text and repeat it back in my inner dialogue in Morgan Freedman's voice is probably a more concrete example, but it's not actually hearing a voice in my head. It's the brain tricking my/your consciousness into thinking you're hearing it by taking past feelings of words Morgan Freedman has said and evoking them into orderly dialogue.
>>14787258
Some people genuinely don't do this (what I explained above). My inner dialogue is more like a stenographer's shorthand where a group of common words is sometimes bunched together as a single thought while other groups of words are mentally "sounded out" like normal language. Like pic related.
>>14787271
>Bro you are a psycho
Why so hostile? Insecurity perhaps?
>I know several mechanical/hydraulic engineering dudes who can visualize complex shapes and gears and shit and move them around in their head and that's how they solve problems with what they're working on.
I'm a mechanical engineer and can do this "in my head" easily lol. Never met another engineer who was inherently better at this. If they are (currently) better it just means they've had more practice. I'm possibly inherently better than most at drawing a mental design on a whiteboard, but drawing is a separate skill set.
>That's real, not some subjective "feeling about color textures."
A blind person can design a gearbox or mechanical system in their mind with enough practice, albeit it will take much more practice than someone who can see. Every human is a 5 in OP pic, many just don't realize what's going on in their head.

>>14787491
>feelings of sound
No, I'm asking whether you can hear music exactly like you would through your ears.
Most musicians do this.

Another question, when you see something can you recall it for a few seconds in good detail?

Also, do you hear sounds when you see things move in regular patterns (synesthesia)?

>>14787258
>reading requires mental pronunciation.
This ain't true. I can read the words in my mind, or just understand them without sounding them.

>>14787491
This guy going on about "feelings" must be like a 3 and he thinks that the 1 doesn't exist. Nigga, "feelings" are emotional states, they have nothing to do with your sense. "Feeling" that you can see/hear something isn't even a thing, you either see it or you don't.

>>14786874
>wordswordswords
You're seething, lmao
>>14787491
>wordswordswords
SEETHING!

>>14763578
If I understand what other people mean by "mental image then I get between 5 and 4.
But I can imagine the experience of having fully visualized what I'm imagining and the raw mental thought output of that is usually good enough.

>this confuses the p-zombo

>>14779584
>>14779613
>>14782178
>>14784791
>I thought I was a 1 the first time I saw this silly meme. But my superior intelligence made me realize what is actually going on.

So you changed your definition of a 1 from "someone who can visualize" to "someone who can voluntarily hallucinate"?

If you feel like reading these threads made you dumber and you believe that you deserve better, check out this book. It's relevant to what's being "discussed" here and it will make you aware about many things you previously haven't considered.

>>14787515
im most musicians and i feelhear, sometimes the feels tempo outpaces the hear and a seizure follows

>>14786874
More, lolcow, more. Post more.

>>14786874
>>14787491
if you didn't have aphantasia, you'd be able to imagine your reader's POV as you drop your super turds that very few people are going to read

>>14787515
>No, I'm asking whether you can hear music exactly like you would through your ears.
Feeling is the perception of physical experience, or the experience of something physical. Sound is physical. Your clarification does not make sense. You're simply modifying "hear" to "hear exactly." I either answered the initial question or your question does not make sense, and now you're modifying it into a separate question about fidelity. It's meaningless to answer the 2nd q if we can't agree on the 1st.
>Another question, when you see something can you recall it for a few seconds in good detail?
absolutely. I have no art background but I have accurately sketched someone's face by looking at it every 5-10 seconds or so
>Also, do you hear sounds when you see things move in regular patterns (synesthesia)?
No, that sounds like a mental disorder. Natural selection would select against an animal that confused sound and vision.
>>14787525
>"feelings" are emotional states
There's more than one meaning to that word. I used "often unreasoned opinion or belief"
>. "Feeling" that you can see/hear something isn't even a thing
It absolutely is
>you either see it or you don't.
Then how can there be 5 tiers in OP pic??
>>14789225
>So you changed your definition of a 1 from "someone who can visualize" to "someone who can voluntarily hallucinate"?
Basically. Many people here are literally describing their "minds eye" as voluntary hallucination. This one verbatim says that >>14769146

>>14790643
>Feeling is the perception of physical experience, or the experience of something physical.
No, feeling is the perception of feelings
We are talking about sensing here

>>14790643
>Then how can there be 5 tiers in OP pic??
How can one person have perfect vision and another only see 6 feet away? Both are seeing, but one can see the cracks in the wall. The guy needing glasses can't "feel that he sees the cracks in the wall". He either sees them or he doesn't. God, you're so fucking stupid. Don't tell me that people who can't visualize can't reason either.

>>14790643
>Many people here are literally describing their "minds eye" as voluntary hallucination.
If I'm understanding you correctly across what I think are your posts, you accept that the brain can produce dreams or hallucinations that overlay the visual field, so presumably you don't reject a mechanism for the imagination being able to do this in a controlled manner, but you've arbitrarily decided that it's a mental disorder. It's hard not to detect some sour grapes in your increasingly verbose posts, anon.

>>14790643
>Basically. Many people here are literally describing their "minds eye" as voluntary hallucination.
And you’re going to take some internet stranger’s definition of “mind’s eye” as the correct definition?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/mind-s-eye
>the hypothetical site of visual recollection or imagination

That’s all it is, and everyone who wasn’t born blind has one.

>>14790663
>No, feeling is the perception of feeling
Gibberish circular reasoning
I was quoting a dictionary you seething brainlet, not making up nonsense like you're doing
>Both are seeing, but one can see the cracks in the wall. The guy needing glasses can't "feel that he sees the cracks in the wall"
What?? A person with bad vision absolutely might feel he's seeing cracks on the wall but might be uncertain they are cracks. Vines growing on a wall easily look like cracks to someone with bad vision.
>God, you're so fucking stupid.
You are in insecure child. It's comical how angry and triggered you get over this funny misconception people have about visualization.
>you accept that the brain can produce dreams or hallucinations that overlay the visual field
It can, but not voluntarily. These people who claim so are schizos or on drugs, likely both.
>so presumably you don't reject a mechanism for the imagination being able to do this in a controlled manner
Painfully stupid non sequitur. The brain being able to do something does not imply it can do it voluntarily.
>but you've arbitrarily decided that it's a mental disorder
It's not arbitrary, getting comically triggered when someone says you don't actually have a mental super power that makes you superior to others is indicative of many mental disorders.
>It's hard not to detect some sour grapes in your increasingly verbose posts, anon
Projection is a hell of a drug. You are the one who started the insults, the only one with sour grapes is you. increasingly verbose" is projection as well. I've been getting bored with this thread.

>>14763578
1.hallucination
2.hyperphantasia
3.phantasia
4.hypophantasia
5.aphantasia

can we stop fucking arguing about this?

>>14790985
>hypothetical
>everyone who wasn’t born blind has one
take meds

>>14791046
Who are you even quoting now

>>14791046
>I was quoting a dictionary you seething brainlet
There's more than one meaning for the word feeling
The one you quoted used it as a synonym for experiencing sensations (example: "I felt the touch"). It's not about "false feelings" but about qualia
I think you might actually be autistic

>>14791046
lmao @ this npc seething
>b-b-b-b-but imagination is different from a dream
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=dream
>Dream in the sense of "that which is presented to the mind by the imaginative faculty, though not in sleep" is from 1580s.
Imagine (kek) thinking that people would use the same word for sleeping visions and imagination if they differed as much in visual quality as your npc cope thinks they do.

>>14791057
The lolcow is quoting multiple people but is referencing only one post because his brain is having a meltdown over its limitations.

if you can visualize realistically in your dreams, you can visualize realistically while awake, all you have to do is learn

>>14791075
>I think you might actually be autistic
It’s 4chan, everyone so autistic.

>>14791046
>These people who claim so are schizos or on drugs, likely both.

>>14791120
Those two are somewhat different processes

I did lot of thinking in internal monologue but I'm trying to replace it with incomprehensible language of the mind

>>14791075
>I think you might actually be autistic
It’s 4chan, everyone is autistic.

>>14791156
they're the same process accessed differently. these synapses can be improved. train your imagination daily, especially when going to bed as this is when the brain both imagines and hallucinates much more freely. try to imagine things like objects, creatures, things that you did or saw during the day, etc. daily exercise also helps improve brain function in general, so go ride your bike or take a jog instead of sitting on 4chan.

I've been making sure to work on my visual imagination at least a few times per day and I've already noticed mild improvements in my mind's eye, more vivid dreams, and even some visual hypnagogic hallucinations (mostly floral patterns, a fire hydrant materialized and rotated slowly for a few seconds).

>>14791320
Mind's eye is not the same thing as voluntarily hallucinating. You should seek mental help.

>>14791337
not for normal people and certainly not for me, this is obvious. but it is undeniable that voluntary hallucination is the end goal of a perfectly realized mind's eye.

>>14791046
>What?? A person with bad vision absolutely might feel he's seeing cracks on the wall but might be uncertain they are cracks. Vines growing on a wall easily look like cracks to someone with bad vision.
Diagnosis: complete (and embarrassing) inability to think in abstract concepts/scenarios
lmao

>>14791047
No, you dumbass. Learn English. Decent visualizers don't just see some grey blob inside their mind's eye. They actually see the detailed apple. I for example right now imagine a photorealistic blue apple that I can rotate etc., and how a self-image of myself bites into.
Hallucination is something else (-- hallucination).

>>14791516
people with hyperphantasia can visualize so well it's comparable to a hallucination. my wife can overlay her mind's eye onto her vision to such an extent she can genuinely have trouble differentiating it from reality.

>>14791075
>There's more than one meaning for the word feeling
And the one given was made up circular gibberish. I used two separate correct meanings in separate instances
>>14791057
It's obvious the same anon replied 3 times in a row
>>14791076
>lmao @ this npc seething
You are an insecure little child
>Imagine (kek) thinking that people would use the same word for sleeping visions and imagination if they differed as much in visual quality as your npc cope thinks they do.
You can't be this stupid. Your absolute irrelevant brainlet quote doesn't even mention. Does the famous quote regarding imagining the future "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up ..." refer to voluntary hallucinations? You probably are actually stupid enough to think that aren't you?
To explicitly show how retarded you are, this anon >>14777609 in fact does claim the "minds eye" is much less vivid than dreams. This other anon appears to do so as well >>14791337 and the next anon agrees with him. Maybe you should read a thread before saying such stupidity.

>>14791155
>>14791510
Go back to your containment zone they miss making fun of stupid people like you

>>14791660
>Your absolute irrelevant brainlet quote doesn't even mention.
Learn to write complete sentences, you complete fucking brainlet trash.
>Go back to your containment zone they miss making fun of stupid people like you
Learn to write without run-on sentences, you complete fucking brainlet trash.
You're mentally inferior to everyone else in this thread. You're a poorly educated NPC. Cope and seethe.
INB4 blaming your fast typing again.

>>14791660
>daydreaming has no relation to night dreaming at all
>it just d-d-d-d-doesn't, okay?
>my brain is completely normal

>>14791660
>It's obvious the same anon replied 3 times in a row

>>14786874
Everyone in the thread is shitting on you but I get what you're saying, I don't think it's provable or disprovable though, like most things regarding qualia.

>>14763578
when I imagine something I wouldn't say I "See" it exactly, it feels more like I'm conjuring up the feeling of seeing it.
if what anon's saying that all imagination is basically that then maybe "aphantasiacs" are just people more introspective and observant of their mental processes.

>>14791693
>INB4 blaming your fast typing again.
HAHA you've been following me this closely the whole time??? How incredibly triggered, you truly are an insecure child. If you must know I cut out "vision or seeing" but only meant to cut out "or seeing"
>>14791700
>>14791710
Go back to your containment zone little child
>>14791713
>Everyone in the thread is shitting on you but I get what you're saying
It's really just 3 or 4 insecure retards foaming at the mouth waiting for my responses. My posts have been getting 4 responses within 20 minutes. They're poltards that escaped containment and need to defend their superpowers because they have no other reason to believe they're superior to nonwhites, it's really pathetic and I love triggering them. Probably why I'm still here.
>I don't think it's provable or disprovable though, like most things regarding qualia
Fair enough, but being un/provable does not mean there can't be significant evidence against it.

>>14791751
>My posts have been getting 4 responses within 20 minutes.
Dude, they've identified you as a lolcow. Hence the pile-on. You know what? Most of them probably even agree with you but are pretending not to because of your reactions.

>>14791660
>It's obvious the same anon replied 3 times in a row

>calls others schizos

>uncreative, close minded anon believes he's normal and everyone who is better than him at imagining and visualizing is a schizo
Honestly this thread is quite sad

>>14792263
hyperphantasia correlates with hallucinogenic disorders like schizophrenia and BPD.

>>14763595
this. anyone that truly is a 1 should be able to progress insanely quick in their drawing skills - children progress quickly in drawing when stimulated because they have much more vivid imagery. When they lose vividness the progress tends to stall its speed.

>>14791516
3s and 4s also can do that lol. the difference is in the intensity of it, not in the countours or colours or movement

>>14791764
>Most of them probably even agree with you but are pretending not to because of your reactions
So they're only pretending to be stupid?

>>14793317
Are you pretending to be autistic? Like I said, everyone who wasn’t born blind is a 1. If I type ‘yellow’ and that word isn’t gibberish to you, then you’re not technically a 5. Since there is no yellow on your screen or anywhere in sight, you cannot conceptualize yellowness without 'seeing' the yellow in your mind. There is something about the nature of thought that brings a live image of the concept and its relations as soon as you get to think of it. That's the idea behind Project Implicit, for example.

>>14793486
>Like I said, everyone who wasn’t born blind is a 1
You're the one I made fun of because you quoted that the "minds eye" is hypothetical yet immediately reversed stance and claimed everyone has one for some reason?

>>14763578
I can imagine a five-pointed gold star spinning counterclockwise, then expanding into five stars arranged into a pentagon, and then the pentagon of stars rotating clockwise, and I can shift the colors of the stars from gold to blue and back indefinitely, so 1++.

>>14793913
>i can imagine simple, flat geometric shapes
4.

>>14793925
Well, I can imagine a spinning cube textured to look like grass if you want.
My visualization is pretty weird. If I work with it consciously then it becomes limited, but if I'm just maladaptive daydreaming then it is extremely vivid.

>>14793927
>textured cube
I guess that's like 2.5

>>14793628
A hypothetical expression to describe something real, just like "mental map" or "circadian rhythm".

>>14793486
>you cannot conceptualize yellowness without 'seeing' the yellow in your mind
I conceptualize yellow by "feeling" the experience of yellow not by seeing it.

it's never been made clear what someone means by "seeing" in their head, like when they close their eyes do they literally see what they're imagining over the back of their eyelids?
I feel like if that were the case nobody would be a bad artist because they could literally just trace what they see in their brain.

>>14794611
>A hypothetical expression
Not a hypothetical expression, it's a hypothetical entity.
>just like "mental map"
Not hypothetical. We can prove that people form mental maps. We can even prove rats form mental maps when they solve mazes faster via practice.
>or "circadian rhythm".
Not hypothetical. We can prove animals have circadian rhythms via blood analysis among several other ways.

It was already quoted the "minds eye" is hypothetical. Find a dictionary that says your "examples" are hypothetical. You can't.

>>14779584
Butthurt 5 detected. Mirin' my juicy mental apples, faggot?

>>14763578
Aesthetic doesn't exactly always equal complexity.

>>14794963
For me at least, it's like a separate visual space.
Right now I'm looking at what I'm typing, but there is another corner of my mind where I'm looking at a red car. There is the street around it, the sunlight and reflections on the paint, buildings in the background, etc.
My eyes are not involved in this at all, it's like a box somewhere else in my mind. I can't say if it's behind or to the right/left of my visual field, it's location is undefined, but it isn't touching my visual field at all.

>>14794957
You are evoking a feeling of seeing it, you just don't realize it.

The conversation is usually on just imagining the visual look of an object, but what about the other senses? I can quite easily replicate sound, and I'm unsure about touch, but I definitely can't do the other two.

>>14799853
You can't imagine the taste of your favorite food?

>>14800088
No, which is what I find odd. Why can I imagine certain sensations easily but not others?

>>14800163
NTA but my guess is that sight and sound are more closely connected to higher brain functions and stuff planning or visualizing.

>>14763578
I can imagine "superman" in realistic quality and in animated quality. If you can't do this, you're obviously an NPC.

>>14799853
Personally I have almost zero visual imagination but I have amazing touch and taste imagination.

>>14763595
anyone who says "anyone who says anything other than 3/4 is fishing for attention" is fishing for (You)s

>>14801032
anyone who says "anyone who says "anyone who says anything other than 3/4 is fishing for attention" is fishing for (You)s" is a very silly billy.

>>14763595
Anon I...

>>14787004
>Person with anxiety
oh boy
Me:
>goes out at night
>starts a conversation with a hot girl with anxiety
>gain trust with her
>get into a funny topic
>she doesn't talk a lot
>talk yourself up
>talk her up
>slowly deviate towards a sexual tonne
>her subconscious starts tingling
>get both of us a drink
>mixing up topic so I don't get spotted
>get touchy
>we both drink
>buy more drink
>say something that indicates that you have a big dong
>both laugh it off while making eye contact
>pause for a second for her to consciously acknowledge the situation
>keep a cheeky smile
>at this point she starts to act differently
>breathing more heavily
>hey lets take a drink
>I make more eye contact
>slow the pace of the conversation
>she occasionally looks at my dong
>make it more serious
>let her talk a bit about herself
>deepen my voice tonne
>get physically closer
>at this point she is struggles to make eye contact because anxiety and drink
>stares at my hardening cock instead
>put my hand on her thigh
>she looks around to see if people are looking
>get my face close to her
>talk about where I would take her
>she says that I'm moving to quick, pushes me away but smiles
>talk about how I would pleasure her
>she doesn't talk at this point
>struggles to breath and is sweating
>that doesn't seem like a no
>I take advantage
>kiss her softly
>move my hand towards her center of gravity
>she is audibly breathing at this point
>check if no one is noticing and proceed
>she doesn't make eye contact
>grab her face and make her make eye contact
>kiss her
>tell her how I would fuck her
>not so gently massage her G
>notice that she is somewhat wet
>she looks me in the eyes while I harden my grip on her cheeks
>she just heavy breaths towards me
>blood flows I'm rock hard
>ask her if she wants to somewhere more quiet
>she nods her head
>grab her by the ass and go
>1 minute walk in the night and find spot
>she immediately goes down on her knees and unzips it
>I cum before she starts

>>14763595
lmao

I can imagine a bead of water sliding down apple skin with photorealism. It's only a flash and it's vague but if you see a black and white foggy silhouette your brain sucks, sorry

>>14793095
Being ok at drawing myself and having spoken with one aphatansian who was also ok at drawing I really don't think this is the case. Art skills sure, visualization is design. But actual drawing is being good at 2d spacial perception, proportion, just precise distance, etc. The only thing I didn't understand was how an aphantasian could draw something from memory without visualizing it. Like it's stored as facts in their head instead of an image? I don't suspect this works beyond basic shit though.

>>14794963
Nigger its so simple. Read this sentence and you'll understand how stupid you sound

"it's never been made clear what someone means by "hearing" in their head, like when they have a song in their head do they literally hear the sound in their ears like it's in the air hitting their ears?
I feel like if that were the case nobody would be a bad musician because they could literally just compose what they hear in their brain.

>>14806057
You don't have to be rude.
And no that doesn't clear anything up.

>>14800088
Phantasia of the other senses isn't talked about enough. I can slightly imagine taste and I think imagining pain is pretty common, particularly imagining or depicting injury to fingernails for me. Like I can tell you to imagine your fingernail popping and folding and you might wince.

I bet you there's some fucker with touch phantasia that can imagine his dick being sucked.

>>14806071
If I focus I can get a faint sensation of a BJ, but it's hard to focus when you're horny, same reason I end up not being able to do much in a lucid dream before waking up.

>>14806063
You can get a song stuck in your head, or read this sentence in your inner voice right?

That's phantasia. You don't literally hear it like it's in the room with you. You're not hallucinating it. But it's definately there in your mind and can being annoying. Visualizing is the same thing but with mental pictures instead of mental sound. I'd say for most people though imaging sound is way higher fedility than visualizing. We can recall music with high detail and it's hard to drop, whereas mental pictures seem hard to sustain.

>>14806074
One time I could feel warm breath on my cock for a second. I need to practice that

>>14806081
>You don't literally hear it like it's in the room with you. You're not hallucinating it.
Okay, but a lot of people have disagreed with that and have said their imagination makes them literally feel as if they're there or literally see what they'r eimagining.

>>14806083
It helps I have a really good touch imagination, despite having a weak visual imagination.
So I can imagine feeling up a [insert degenerate non-human creature] but I can't really imagine how they look exactly.

>>14806084
I haven't noticed that. I don't believe that claim.

I myself have hypnogogia when I'm half asleep, and I have visual hallucinations and see those things as well as if they were real and right in front of me. But I definately can't control them or see them ever in a fully awake state, and they are on a very different level than the visualization I use when imagining a scene while reading a book, or imagining titties.

>>14806104
>I don't believe that claim
Why would I lie, it's just something I've seen over the years in threads about mental imagery.
Also anecdotally I have family members with imaginations like that.

>>14791351
To be honest, no, I don't think that's the case at all. If you don't have apha, you should be aware that visualization is not a mere quantitative difference from either dream or eye visual qualia. Rather, it is kinda situated on a different, second monitor of the mind. This second monitor does in no shape and form compete or even truly interact with the world of sight, in the same manner that walking, maintaining a balanced stance and not being just an upright lump of meat that immediately collapses, does not, in any shape or form, cannibalize your capacity for thinking about what you want for dinner.
>>14806046
I think the percentage of supposed artists that claim to have aphantasia who are too low IQ to understand the actual nature of the mind's eye, vs. some caricature of it (hallucinations onto the eyelids) is in the double digits.
>>14806084
You can impossibly talk about things pertaining to qualia and other philosophies of the mind and phenomenal experience, without dullards misinterpreting and mis-relaying (to a party like you) most of it.

>>14767947
>Hugh Jackman didn't come along until I was like 18.
Hi dad. I didn't know you posted on /sci/.

>>14806071
I can't imagine pain at all but I can imagine touch somewhat. I actually do use it when jacking off.

>>14800088
I can imagine the sensations associated with the taste but not the flavour itself.

>>14806269
No I mean I don't believe people claiming they literally see what they imagine, that they can hallucinate on demand, I've never even heard of that. Visualizing isn't like that. If I visualize a spider in my bed there's nothing to worry about. I can visualize him dancing with a top hat and singing ragtime gal. If I hallucinate a spider I'm getting the fuck out. If I could control hallucinations I would be crazy.

>>14806303
>some caricature of it (hallucinations onto the eyelids) is in the double digits.

I've never understood the "close your eyes and imagine". I've never had to close my eyes to visualize, it even makes it harder for me for some reason. Also I don't care where it's overlayed in the visual field, I just usually dont look at anything, though I can imagine it in the field if I want to. Kids commonly imagine something running or flying by the highway when they look out the car window.

>>14763578
You only think you can visualize 2, if you could actually visualize things as 1 or 2, you'd be a gifted artist. Go draw something from your imagination, you're all more like a 4-5.

It's like when I was dreaming, and a night elf took off her shirt and her nipples were 7 feet long but in my dream I thought that length was completely normal.

These faculties may mimic or copy the perceptions of the senses; but they never can entirely reach the force and vivacity of the original sentiment. The utmost we say of them, even when they operate with greatest vigour, is, that they represent their object in so lively a manner, that we could almost say we feel or see it: But, except the mind be disordered by disease or madness, they never can arrive at such a pitch of vivacity, as to render these perceptions altogether undistinguishable. All the colours of poetry, however splendid, can never paint natural objects in such a manner as to make the description be taken for a real landskip. The most lively thought is still inferior to the dullest sensation.

>arguing with others about subjective qualia
o i am laffin

>>14806634
This is peak NPC, or you're just trolling at this point.
No normal person gets scared of a spider visualization, for the simple reason that he knows it's just a visualization.

>>14806701
>t. psychedelic virgin

>>14806664
>if you could actually visualize things as 1 or 2, you'd be a gifted artist.
Retard take.
Lots of people are shit artists even when they're trying to draw/paint a real object sitting in front of them.

>>14806746
Did they have psychadelics in the 1700s?

>>14806790
No, the Jews bionengineered hundreds of plants in the 1960s.

>>14793095
Bullshit, I am 1, being ADHD autist with pretty good imagination (both visual and abstract) I am pretty much retarded when it comes to drawing, I can basically only draw stickmen while being able to write decent poetry in two languages.

>>14792939
Yes, so does creativity and intelligence. Not an argument

>>14806728
>hallucination and visualization are the same thing
Meds.

>>14806728
That's what he's saying, you dumb cock. He's deboonking the NPCs that think hallucination and visualization are the same thing.

>mental visualization dictated by outside influences
>images have as much variation as the concepts you compartmentalizations in your mind
>limiting that aspect of free thought
>not only handcuffed by language but suffocated by realistic imagery
Why wouldn’t your thoughts be out of this world, you’d have to be an imbecile to fall for this kind of shit

>>14807740
>compartmentalizations
I paint the bowl and flush

>>14807480
Imagine cucking yourself out of controllable perception because NPC normies are afraid of the implications.

>>14807749
>voluntary hallucination and visualization are the same thing
Meds. Now.

>>14784791
Holy autism. The image is not meant to be a scientific representation of what is going on in your head. When you watched Battlefield, did you think there was a curse that prevented the humans from being able to hear the aliens speak English? The reason they can’t hear the aliens speak English is because the aliens don’t know English. We hear the aliens speak English for our benefit, not because that’s what the aliens are hearing.

>>14808170
Not him, but the movie is called Battlefield Earth.

>>14807707
Learn to read, you low-IQ trash.
>hallucinate on demand
>control hallucinations
Good visualization in the non-NPC brain is exactly like that, and it's not an issue because, guess what, people KNOW they're just visualizing.

>>14807480
CONTROLLED hallucination and hallucination ON DEMAND are the same thing as visualization.
I'm not surprised your robot brain can't make such distinctions in what you read.

>>14808148
>t. bitter npc

>>14763595
Who could be behind this post....

...I wonder.....

>>14808148
>voluntary hallucination and visualization are the same thing
what do you see as the difference in visual effect between voluntary hallucination and visualization? be specific.
I will take a question dodge as petulant sour grapes.

>>14808815
Assuming that you’re not actually schizophrenic and are just confused about semantics, voluntary hallucination would mean the image is obstructing things in your actual view. When you visualize an apple, you are still able to see what’s behind the apple. But if you were starving and hallucinated an apple, the apple would be blocking a bit of your actual view. A voluntary hallucination would be just like that, except voluntary.

>ITT

>>14808828
lmao, the scene that made the chess.com forums erupt into a war of words between aphantasia npcs and normal people.

When you guys scroll away from the image and try to picture the OP pic what do you see? I honestly thought I was a 3/4 for some time but I realize that I have no problem picturing details, colors, etc. of stuff if I actually consciously try to; I just don't picture stuff in my head and instead rely on internal monologue.

>>14808844
>When you guys scroll away from the image and try to picture the OP pic what do you see?
I think I did it wrong, I saw a bunch of dicks.

>>14808815
>>14808827
It also should be noted that schizophrenia is an agency disorder as evidenced by the fact that all schizophrenics' can tickle themselves and don't recognize their inner monologue and visualizations as their own
On top of that, it is much easier to visualize with your eyes open than closed, so the only difference between you and an actual schizophrenic person is that they are brain damaged and due to this have a difficult time distinguishing their own intentionality

>>14808799
Can you provide some sort of medical source that claims if your hallucinations are "intentional" it's okay? I'm not finding a sourced distinction between voluntary and involuntary hallucinations, they all just basically say "if hallucination then commit yourself to mental hospital" etc.

I don't think these differences actually affect people's lives much if at all and everyone arguing that anyone that is lower/higher is better/worse/doesn't exist are just shit flinging over nothing.

>>14809560
Obviously people are talking about 'voluntary hallucinations' and such as a crutch in an effort to convey to aphantasia NPCs the visual quality of non-NPC visualization, given that said NPCs seem capable of grasping the visual quality of a hallucination but not much else. It's not surprising that you're not finding any research using such a crutch term.

>>14763578
Should my eyes be open or closed?

>>14809782
>Obviously people are talking about 'voluntary hallucinations' and such as a crutch in an effort to convey to aphantasia NPCs the visual quality of non-NPC visualization, given that said NPCs seem capable of grasping the visual quality of a hallucination but not much else.
No this is obviously wrong. He verbatim said hallucination on demand is the same thing as visualization. That is not conveying an abstract idea, that is stating a direct equivalence. Also, on this board only people who got lost on their way to /pol/ use the idiot phrase "NPC" unironically. No exceptions.
>It's not surprising that you're not finding any research using such a crutch term
It wasn't a crutch term I don't know why you're making that up. Literature would absolutely make the distinction that voluntary hallucinations are ok if they were actually ok. If you use the word "hallucination" to describe the thoughts in your head it's clear you need to be in a mental hospital.

>>14810775
>i'm an actual NPC
Oh.