/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14753187
70% of autists have mild or moderate intellectual deficiency. Idk why people assign the eccentricity of geniuses to autism, even tho they're technically opposites. Horseshoe effect at play

Most likely the vast majority of autistics are the way they are because of the chemicals the mother ingests and is exposed to during pregnancy/breastfeeding and/or the injections they give babies.

>>14753200
3% are 115 IQ or over

There's a documentary called The Predator (2018) that shares that view. You might like it.

>>14753187
>hand-flapping, shrieking autists are not beneficial for society
Still much better than hand-flapping, shrieking normies.

>>14753187
why tf does everyone think that evolution will make us super-intelligent and strong. At this pace evolution will lower our iq pretty bad

>>14753187
There was a brief period of time in recent years when autism was being diagnosed at a higher rate, but that's only because the diagnosis tools and methods were becoming more accurate. Soon after, the increase plateaued and the diagnosis rate has basically remained the same.

>>14753187
>inb4 soi guzzler kvetching about elon

>>14753187
Autism is normal healthy people, normies are brain damaged by iron poisoning and lead deficiency.

>>14753200
Some of the tests seem to expect delusional thought processes caused by lead deficiency.

>>14753200
Some of the tests seem to expect delusional thought processes caused by lead deficiency. This is what causes the flynn effect and the differences in IQ between countries; I suspect that actual, healthy IQ (where you actually figure things out instead of unknowinglyfabricating an answer) may be surprisingly low.

>>14753187
>Is autism the next step of human evolution?
That would require females to select for autism, which they do not.

>>14753200
>70% of autists have mild or moderate intellectual deficiency.
It's 20 to 30 % depending on the location with some alternative IQ tests implying that half of all officially intellectually disabled autists aren't actually intellectually disabled.

People still cling to that 70 to 80 % figure when these estimates came from a time when you practically had to be mentally retarded to get diagnosed with autism in the first place.

But autism is a social construct with little to no medical value, so it really is only another box to put people into that we as a society have rejected.

>>14753187
At one point evolution favored autism for autistic gene to survive.
Let that sink in

>>14753928
it didn't, we just enforced monogamy and marriage so retarded low status males (aka autistic fucks) managed to reproduce.

>>14753693
Protip: when elonino asked about who controls the press, that was a brag, not an anti semitic dogwhistle

>>14753187
>Post about autism
>Pic unrelated btw

>>14753928
Nah, it's largely environmental factors. Adults, especially women, who decide to have children later in life lend to produce offspring with mental conditions like autism.

>>14753928
There really isn't something like an 'autism gene' or 'autism'. What you have is a number of vague traits that do not even meaningfully genetically correlate with each other. That collection of traits with very open boundaries then makes up the 'autism' category.
If you're intellectually disabled, you most likely will have problems with communication in one way or another, so we already see how the definition of autism conflates intellectual disability with autism. But the shy kid also has problems with communication so they end up both in the same category. Add in the guy with a damaged cerebellum because he is unable to control his mouth movements and add in another guy who for all purposes and intents does not have any communication issues but still got diagnosed with autism when he was 7. Does such a category make sense to you?

>>14753936
>Adults, especially women, who decide to have children later in life lend to produce offspring with mental conditions like autism.
No, autism correlates with paternal age, the age of the father, but hardly with the age of the mother. Some studies can't find any correlation between autism and maternal age, others find a relative increase of 5 to 10 % (from 1 to 1.10) which is not that much. /pol/-tier mother blaming.

>>14753938
>you is sexist

>>14753948
Regardless, it's true. Rather than blame your own mother for your short-comings, reflect on what is actually going on.

>>14753938
>autism correlates with paternal age
And I guarantee that increased paternal age at birth of first child is correlated with paternal autism, just like what used to be called a "refrigerator mother" is in fact maternal autism. Not only have you "don't-blame-the-mommies!" pearl-clutchers set back out understanding of autism's etiology by half a century by proscribing lines of investigation, but you also contributed to the underdiagnosis of autism in girls by suppressing evidence of its presentation.

>>14753933
This.
Why do normalfags worship trust fund babies so much?

>>14754148
>Not only have you "don't-blame-the-mommies!" pearl-clutchers set back out understanding of autism's etiology by half a century by proscribing lines of investigation,
The concept of autism itself is logically incoherent and inconsistent. This is an issue with other DSM-5 categories as well, but it is nowhere as ludicrous as in the autism category. Yes, child neglect and abuse have been linked to autism before, e.g. neglected Romanian orphans, who developed some form of 'quasi-autism'. Obviously, it's not real autism for some magical reason because the parents are never to blame for real 'autism' or 'ADHD'. For example, parent-led advocacy groups have been extremely aggressive in promoting the chemical imbalance theory in the case of ADHD despite the fact that ADHD symptoms can often be traced back to maternal alcohol consumption, liberal use of certain pills/meds during pregnancy, bad/inadequate nutrition during early childhood, sexual abuse, emotional neglect etc.

If you have good social skills and an autism diagnosis, regardless of how questionable the diagnostic process is and the for-profit nature of the various companies involved in it, your good social skills are not indicative of you not actually having 'autism'. They're now understood as 'masking'. So, rather than actually modify your model, you just make the data fit it.
>but you also contributed to the underdiagnosis of autism in girls by suppressing evidence of its presentation.
This is the second problem. We now just assume that 'autism' exists despite having no genetic or neurobiological proof for its existence. All the evidence we have suggests that such a category does not actually exist and if it exists, it spans across the entire genetic and neurological spectrum rather than it indicating some subset. Because 'autism' is now a neurogenetic issue, women should technically have it as often as men. The problem? They just don't show up. The solution? Change the definition of autism.

>>14753187
>Is autism the next step of human evolution?
Maybe it could be. I'd assume someone with at least a little autism to be better equipped to sit in a cubicle 45hrs a week- mentally.
However, like other anons pointed out, the increasing prevalence of autism could be due to diagnosing it more. I imagine back in the day, it'd be; "ole' farmer Jimmy ain't the brightest tool in the shed, but he's a hard worker & full of heart," now it'd be; "sumthin's off about Jimmy, he probably got the 'tism."

>>14754317
> "sumthin's off about Jimmy, he probably got the 'tism."
I really don't like how autism turned into a generic term for the numerous mental retardation syndroms mostly because most autism cases do not involve mental retardation.

>>14754337
since it's a spectrum disorder, it implies every single person has autosim to some degree. some people only are 5% autistic while others are 95% autistic.

>>14753938
>>14753952
Don't get me wrong paternal age does matter for mental development, but not nearly as much as maternal.
>The authors of the epidemiological study, published February 8 in Autism Research, examined the parental age of more than 12,000 children with autism and nearly five million "control" children between 1990 and 1999, all living in California. The researchers found that mothers over 40 had a 51 percent higher risk of having a child with autism than mothers 25 to 29, and a 77 percent higher risk than mothers under 25.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/autism-maternal-age/

>>14754539
I'm aware of that study. I'm also aware of the issue that the correlation is multifactorial and also that the opposite assocations has been observed. What I question is whether or not such studies actually bother with accounting for confounding variables such as pre-existing autism traits in parents, which have been linked to postponed childbirth before, overall diagnostic awareness and willingness to get children diagnosed in the first place, ethnicity, IQ etc. Moreover, the correlation between maternal age and autism does not appear anymore if you account for the factor at what age the first child has been born. In short, not age directly but the habit of certain people to postpone childbirth seems to be associated with autism.

>Don't get me wrong paternal age does matter for mental development.
This is wrong. Compare the picture. There's plenty of sources on that, for example: >https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.3597
Sperms carry much more de novo mutations which likewise have been implicated in some syndromic forms of 'autism', here meaning a combo of intellectual disability, epilepsy and other developmental disorders. De novo mutations are generally strongly associated with intellectual disability and also appear statistically more often in those diagnosed with autism, but the association between de novo mutations and autism is entirely accounted for by IQ. See >https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266623395_Autism_spectrum_disorder_severity_reflects_the_average_contribution_of_de_novo_and_familial_influences..
So yes, the association between old sperm and intellectual disability is relatively well established.

There is a difference between noting an association and actually trying to account for the causal link between the two.

>>14754658
This is conflating potential, statistical mutated sperm as results for autistic children, when the actual results (the ones like scientificamerican compiled) show a stronger correlation between maternal than paternal age when it comes chances of autistic offspring.
Plus it doesn't account for things like mutated sperm are less capable of swimming towards the egg than healthier ones, and etc.

>>14754658
I will also include a picture of the same post above that has some more sources in it. 4chan thinks it's spam so I couldn't post the original.

In general, the association between the mythical thing called 'autism' and various biological variables such as de novo mutations/parental age/hormons etc. have been hyped whenever such a finding was made. There's a frenzy going on that we have to get that thing called 'autism' under control at any cost even if no one can really explain what it actually is or what it means. The only significant discovery that we've made so far is the fact that autism traits seem to be normally distributed across the population and that they cluster in certain families, meaning that it is an inherited genetic trait.

>>14754696
>This is conflating potential, statistical mutated sperm
The sperms themselves aren't mutated. If they were, they wouldn't reach the egg in the first place. They contain one half of the DNA needed to make a child.
>(the ones like scientificamerican compiled)
which doesn't actually bother to reference the study.
Also from the same article:
>But they might also be more likely to seek diagnoses to explain their child's abnormal behavior. "That's definitely an important thought, and I think that there is some evidence to suggest that people with higher education and higher socioeconomic status in general are more adept at navigating the diagnostic process here in California,".(advertisement for for-profit autism services). The proportion of parents of autistic children with fewer than 24 years of combined education in the study was smaller than that of "control" birth parents, (19 percent and 36 percent, respectively).
>Plus it doesn't account for things like mutated sperm are less capable of swimming towards the egg than healthier ones, and etc.
You have a poor command of English and also get basic biology wrong. The DNA in the sperm has no impact on the sperm cell itself. Sperms do gradually become worse the older you are but this is irrelevant when we're talking about the DNA.

>>14754737
>The DNA in the sperm has no impact on the sperm cell itself. Sperms do gradually become worse the older you are but this is irrelevant when we're talking about the DNA.
Just like that, your creditability dropped.

>>14754765
>creditability
credibility

If you're dyslexic, just tell me, but you're not trying at all. No, a single study that found a 40-50 % relative increase in autism among children born to mothers older than 45 does not suffice in properly establishing that claim, especially in light of unaccounted confounding variables (look it up what that means) and when other studies can't find that association (which I have referenced). No, you missing out on teen sex doesn't mean that you should make a child with some young fantasy woman when you're 55 because 'old sperm simply doesn't get bad'. Old sperm gets bad. Furthermore, no one wants to have a grandpa as his father.

>>14754255
>women should technically have it as often as men
How are you getting this idea?

>>14754791
>How are you getting this idea?
Not really my idea. Someone posed the 'where are all the autistic women' question. I simply answered that if it was purely neurogenetic, women technically should have it or more aptly carry it just as often as men since a Y-linked component has never been shown to exist.

>>14754798
Doesn't the claim of a genetic origin come from observations of prevalence in families in a psychiatric context rather than from the identification of either X or Y components in a biological context?

>>14753187
>Implying Musk has autism

>>14754806
Yes, see heritability estimates. However, the issue here is that most heritability estimates are based on studies of identical twins which not rarely have some problems on their own, for example separated identical twins weren't actually separated for the first few months etc. Another issue is that really nearly any trait is at least partially genetically mediated, see picture.

>>14754817
So you want to change the definition of ASD which is based primarily on psychiatric research to not assume genetic components anymore because those haven't been identified yet, but may yet show men are affected more often than women? What would that accomplish as far as diagnosis and treatment is concerned?

>>14753205
>chemicals the mother ingests and is exposed to during pregnancy
And whch ones were these?

>>14753937
>If you're intellectually disabled, you most likely will have problems with communication in one way or another, so we already see how the definition of autism conflates intellectual disability with autism. But the shy kid also has problems with communication so they end up both in the same category. Add in the guy with a damaged cerebellum because he is unable to control his mouth movements and add in another guy who for all purposes and intents does not have any communication issues but still got diagnosed with autism when he was 7
This isn't enough for a diagnosis however, you are only describing one criterion. Depending on other strengths and weaknesses those kids may land in very different categories.

>>14754848
>So you want to change the definition of ASD which is based primarily on psychiatric research
No, what I say is that the concept of ASD is incoherent and useless because 1. there's no actual psychological essence to it (in short it describes nothing that all the members under the label share except for the label), 2. genetic and neurological research that have been done on it over the last 40 years strongly implies that it is hundreds if not thousands of unrelated conditions, 3. some findings at least are due to an observational artifact based on certain theoretical approaches which were then used to specifically seek out and prove those findings that are in support of the same theory. There are other issues.
>What would that accomplish as far as diagnosis and treatment is concerned?
There is nothing to diagnose because it simply does not constitute a real medical issue. It consists of undesirable, bothersome and problematic behavior that we don't like seeing and that we want to get rid of.
And the professional 'treatment' for it largely consists in sending the child to numerous for-profit service providers which sell products and therapies but rarely actually help the child. Not to mention that autism therapy's goal consists in making the child indistinguishable from all the other normal children, which is definitely weird for a society so open, tolerant and diverse such as ours.

We also should move away from the notion that, because a person is disabled and may need help, this in itself definitely constitutes a medical issue with a knowable medical disease pathway.

>>14754798
>Someone posed the 'where are all the autistic women' question.
That was me, and it wasn't a question, I was pointing to exactly where the autistic women are. The "refrigerator mothers" whose children met Kanner's criteria would themselves be diagnosed as autistic by today's criteria.

>>14754889
This will be my last post today.
>This isn't enough for a diagnosis however, you are only describing one criterion
Yes, repetitive movements and activities which includes a huge array of things such as passionate interests, hand flapping, engaging in any kind of ritual, persevering, echolalia, repeatedly washing your hands, rocking back and forth, trying to maintain a specific morning program, wanting to watch a specific cartoon each day, repeatedly eloping or just walking away etc. Do you think it's hard to fulfill that criterion? I don't think it is.
>Depending on other strengths and weaknesses those kids may land in very different categories.
The shy guy may land in the social anxiety category which means that he's likely getting drugs.
The intellectually disabled get autism diagnoses thrown at them for obvious reasons. They also get tons of ADHD and ODD diagnoses.
The brain-damaged kid may or may not get an autism diagnosis depending on whether or not the neurologists/psychiatrists in charge regard it as an exclusion criterion.
And the guy who has no problem with job and family but still got an autism diagnosis? Well, officially he's autistic for life and thus requires continuing support like learning how to talk to cashiers.

>>14753208
More than 3% of the general population is above 115 IQ

>>14754931
When you say it's useless you need to keep in mind that psychiatry works more top-down than bottom-up. The fact no unified genetic theory of autism exists as of now (if that is even theoretically possible) doesn't change that certain people show up as kids or adults with problems that psychiatrists are going to study and put a name on.
>genetic and neurological research that have been done on it over the last 40 years strongly implies that it is hundreds if not thousands of unrelated conditions
Research methods have come a long way over the last 40 years. Temple Grandin, an autistic desginer of cattle facilities, gives accounts of how autism can be understood from her own experience and as a subject for neurological imaging techniques.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677580/
She describes how overspecialized connectivity in certain areas of her brain gives her exceptional mental imagery and how autism should be understood as a disorder of overspecialization (either verbal, visual or musical/mathematical) at the cost of other talents and abilities. This may be associated with different rates of growth of the brain's hemispheres in childhood, which is also reflected in increased occurence of facial asymmetry of autists. That is to say, if you take someone who is definitely not neurotypical as an example it might be easier to see a more distinct picture of autism, as opposed to gleaning something from commonalities of large numbers of questionably diagnosed subjects. If autism doesn't exist, what label would you give people like Grandin or others who report exceptional mental imagery (the most "profitable" kind of autism since it translates to technical ability) like Musk, Einstein or savants like Daniel Temmet?

>>14755043
This is her by the way :)

>>14755005
Exactly

>>14753187
the 4chin r*tards are confusing serious impairing brain defect that renders you unable to handle reality for spoiled kid syndrome where the little shit is spoiled to the degree of unability to communicate without throwing 10 tantrums.

>>14755043
>what label would you give people like Grandin or
sexually non-attractive dorks

>>14753187
autism isn't real
https://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/psychiatry-junk-science-attention-deficit-disorder-hyperactivity-disorder-ADHD-myth.htm

>>14755005
Is there a range where autists are in a majority? Supposedly many scientists are on the spectrum. Is it an edge in intelligence, or just the ability to focus intensely for a long time?

>>14753187
no but destroying this server is
https://discord com/invite/beTwDNgv2P

>>14753200
this is true. most autists are retards with difficulty learning many subjects. it's annoying hearing people stereotype autists as super intelligent people

t. actual high-functioning autist with official diagnosis

>>14753205
a lot of autists also had hyperbilirubinemia at birth.

having very high levels of bilirubin can make you a retard

>>14758790
>Supposedly many scientists are on the spectrum.

That's not true. It's just people coping and trying to feel good about autism

A lot of autistic retards are trying to claim that Einstein had autism. He absolutely did not.

>>14758911
How do you know?

>>14758790
>Supposedly many scientists are on the spectrum.
Another retarded myth.

Much of this bullshit comes from psychologists trying to retrospectively diagnose dead scientists such as Newton and Einstein. Neither of them were autistic.

>>14758928
Did you really rewrite your post to make it MORE aggressive and seething?

>>14758935
Well, I'm an actual autist with an official diagnosis. It's just extremely frustrating hearing all sorts of misconceptions about autism, Often times, a lot of myths about autistic people are perpetuated by psychologists who should know better.

Autism is not some super power that makes you an intellectual genius. It's a debilitating disorder that takes away your social life. I never got to experience teenage love because girls found me creepy and awkward. I was bullied relentlessly in school because of what a weirdo I was. Even simple small talk with strangers has always been way too challenging for me.

I'll admit, it does seem easy for me to retain information when reading things I find very interesting, but make no mistake -- autism does not make you a genius. A very tiny percentage of autists actually go on to have successful careers in academia.

>>14758980
See >>14754931
In absence of hard biological facts, your 'autism' label is scientifically meaningless and only of interest to you because it serves as an excuse.
>I was bullied relentlessly in school because of what a weirdo I was
Definitely no internalized self-hatred in this guy.
>A very tiny percentage of autists actually go on to have successful careers in academia.
so do other people generally.

>>14759010
What do you have to say to this >>14755043

>>14755043
>doesn't change that certain people show up as kids or adults with problems that psychiatrists are going to study and put a name on.
Psychiatrists which eventually become depended on the propagation of the same diagnosis to maintain and further their own career. A welll known issue in regards to ADHD.
>She describes how overspecialized connectivity in certain areas of her brain
Then the issue is neurological and her 'autism' is ephemeral and a phenotypical consequence of the underlying brain issue.
>If autism doesn't exist, what label would you give people like Grandin or others who report exceptional mental imagery (the most "profitable" kind of autism since it translates to technical ability) like Musk, Einstein or savants like Daniel Temmet?
Tempel Grandin has an identifiable neurological issue, call it Grandin syndrome if you want, Daniel Temmet has suffered from numerous epileptic seizures as far as I know and his savant skills are more akin to splitter skills that some people get after suffering from brain damage. Elon and Einstein are good examples of just how much the meaning of autism shifted in the last twenty years. No one in the '90s would have ever thought of them as 'autistic'.

>>14759021
I'm not here to talk about the minutae of a psychiatric label and whether or not it exists. Autism exists as a cultural and social fact, so does God, but yet it doesn't mean that they are proven entities.

I have attacked the concept of autism on several fronts. The issue who gets to decide what behavior is bad or pathological, the lack of hard scientific data behind the label, industrial and commercial interest groups that seek to propagate the diagnosis and get more people diagnosed with it, conceptual difficulties in demarcating severe autism from mental retardation and 'high-functioning autism' from ADHD, leading to extremely high comorbidity rates which is precisely what you would NOT want in precision medicine.

>>14759021
if I come across as pushy or aggressive, i'm sorry.
I know people who died of overdosing from their prescribed psychiatric drugs so I'm naturally hostile to it. I also know people who've gone to therapy for 5, 10, 20 years, yet made absolutely no progress and were repeatedly 'gently' brought to an asylum by the police or by their family. I knew a boy who had a dubious diagnosis of epilepsy, got hooked up on antiepileptica and got brain surgery and now sits in a wheelchair and can't talk.

>>14759022
>Then the issue is neurological and her 'autism' is ephemeral and a phenotypical consequence of the underlying brain issue.
The case she makes is that this "issue" is identical with autism. It's pretty clear in any understanding of it that whatever autism is, it's going to be a neurological issue in some way. It's not "Grandin syndrome" because other visualizers like her exist (as well as verbal and pattern specialists) and rely on their brains to do so, she's only special insofar as she's subjecting herself to expensive diagnostic methods that are not feasible for every possibly autistic psychiatric patient to do. These methods havebeen developed since the 90s so I don't see how a past understanding would necessarily supersede a current one, although current ones can be flawed for other reasons.

depends which autism. I dont think alot of severely autistic folk can lift up their own weight. However the autists who are introverted have dependency on themselves and do not demand help from the system or mention of their autism as an excuse for getting extra time on things. Most autists only have a 105 iq anyways and think they are the next elon musk that ive met.

>>14759053
>The case she makes is that this "issue" is identical with autism.
If you already assume that all behavior is the brain or at least is a linear function of the brain, then autism can't be anything but neurological or a linear function of it, thus making your statement basically tautological. According to that logic, there is no more or less autism than there is ADHD or NT syndrome, a condition that would also be neurologically identifiable.
But behavior isn't a brain, nor is it identical to brain processes, so equating autism with some assumed brain process ultimately gives rise to a category mistake. No, I think the whole 'problematic behavior is a brain defect' thing that we have going on right now is just utterly convenient for many of those involved, including parents, therapists, schools etc.
>It's not "Grandin syndrome" because other visualizers like her exist (as well as verbal and pattern specialists) and rely on their brains to do so
Sure, they exist. No doubt about that. But is it autism? If a term that originally described a collection of behavioral traits with open boundaries suddenly turns into a collection of neurological conditions, is it still the same? I argue it's not.
>expensive diagnostic methods that are not feasible for every possibly autistic psychiatric patient to do.
Let's see what the future brings. Shall we?

>>14759075
I should emphasize that what Grandin explores in her hobbyist research is primarily her cognition, while observable behavior only matters after that. She basically tries to give an account of what autism is like from a first-person perspective after she was diagnosed from a third-person perspective so she can reasonably assume that what makes her different is autism. I wager that psychiatrists evaluating behavior wouldn't put autistic patients in an fMRI scanner to deepen their understanding without being made aware of the peculiarities in how autists process thoughts and perceptions, e.g. as images instead of words. If done more broady, why would this not give rise to a neurological model that's more precise that a psychiatric one? Isn't this what you should want?
>If you already assume that all behavior is the brain or at least is a linear function of the brain
What is it supposed to be if not a function of the brain? The brain can be dysfunctional in a myriad of ways, and disregarding the obvious qualitative difference between physical processes and what we call behavior I don't see how to construct a kind of autism that would not be the result of an underlying brain issue.

>>14758928
How can a question be a myth? There are people on the spectrum, a few must have fallen off it entirely.

>>14759022
>Tempel Grandin has an identifiable neurological issue
Which is it, if not autism?

>>14753187
>asperger
>businessmen man
how?

>>14759974
Just don't be interrupted every 5 minutes by the next cool thing, and you are golden.

>Is autism the next step of human evolution? Could its increased diagnosis rate and the tendency of those with HFA and Asperger's syndrome being well-geared toward highly specialized and erudite fields be reflected in society's need for people with these conditions? Obviously hand-flapping, shrieking autists are not beneficial for society, but the awkward ones who become subject matter experts in a narrow field of interest will become more and more valuable as our civilization demands more and more specialization.

>>14754391
It always amuses me when people say something along the lines of someone being on the spectrum.

Like no shit, dipshit, everyone is on the spectrum, that's how spectrum fucking work.

>>14761129
>It always amuses me when people say something along the lines of someone being on the spectrum.
>Like no shit, dipshit, everyone is on the spectrum, that's how spectrum fucking work.
Yeah, and let's bury geek culture while we're at it!

Threads like this are fucking trash and prove how all the idiots that post here larping as aspies are just hateful allistic NPC orcs. Fucking gaslighting our existence with delusional "autism doesn't exist" trolls ad infinitum, attacking our intelligence, not knowing shit about the subject, and larping as aspies like some preteen tiktok cunt.

>>14761350
Well to be fair, nobody owes you an understanding of your condition. I also don't think that you're necessarily that knowledgeable about all the other ways in which people can be "neurodivergently" developed. Autists at least enjoy the halo of supposed high intelligence even if many of them are drooling retards in the most literal sense. Have you ever heard of Williams syndrome? It's basically the same inability to connect with NTs deeply, but instead of aloof and withdrawn they're compulsively friendly (and equally vulnerable), kind of like a Golden Retriever puppy. They suffer from many of the same sensibilities autists do, in addition to impaired intelligence, facial deformities and heart conditions they often die from. And in contrast to autism, absolutely nobody wants their child to be born that way.

>>14759152
>She basically tries to give an account of what autism is like
Which differs significantly from other acconts of people describing their 'autism'.
>after she was diagnosed from a third-person perspective so she can reasonably assume that what makes her different is autism.
Her external behavior is autism. The neurological issue she has is not autism because brain matter isn't behavior. It's only then that her brain issue specificially gives rise to her behavior that is deemed autistic. Cause and consequence aren't the same thing. It's not that hard to understand. Your misconception stems either from your belief that autism is already a proven singulary neurological issue or you're mentally incapable of understanding the difference between cause and consequence.
>I wager that psychiatrists evaluating behavior wouldn't put autistic patients in an fMRI scanner...
>e.g. as images instead of words
Which is characteristic of all autists but none of the non-autists? How would you know that all autists think in pictures if you can't properly test for that in the first place. Anecdotal evidence? How do you test whether or not intellectually disabled autists think in pictures? Should it not be possible to know how to use a toilet by thinking in pictures?
>If done more broady, why would this not give rise to a neurological model that's more precise that a psychiatric one? Isn't this what you should want?
I told you yesterday that all the neurological and genetic evidence we have suggests that there is no unified neurological model to autism and that certain types of brain abnormalities and genetic issues are involved in some forms (mostly severe autism + mental retaradation ) that do not show up in others. So, autism is at best an umbrella term for a lot of neurological issues (or so we assume), or it could be metabolical etc. Once such a neurological issue is discovered, the autism itself becomes epiphenomenal, a consequence of the neurological issue.

>>14759965
>Which is it, if not autism?
Autism is a psychiatric diagnosis, not a neurological one. If it was neurological, we would have long reclassified autism as an identifiable form of brain disorder that wouldn't be diagnosed by means of behavioral questionaires. This form of neuroscientism is exactly why proper research into autism is delayed because people assume that all autism is the same without thinking whether or not it's tons of different issues. The fact that some guy like Elon and a mute head-banging kid with an IQ of 20 allegedly have the same disorder should make you suspect of the very same concept.
>>14761650
>Autists at least enjoy the halo of supposed high intelligence even if many of them are drooling retards in the most literal sense
Does it make sense to diagnose Elon Musk and a drooling retard with the same thing?
>Have you ever heard of Williams syndrome?
Williams syndrome is a genetic disorder. You already mix up two things that aren't the same. Williams syndrome is a hard fact, autism is not. That's why rates of William's syndrome stay the same whereas autism rates have gone up from 0.1 % in 1980 to 3 % in 2020.

>>14761667
>Williams syndrome is understood, autism is not
Ftfy. It's irrelevant to my post however since what I was pointing out was the neurodivergence of the Williams syndrome brain as one of many conditions most people are ignorant about and don't know how to handle when encountered, as a reply to an autist who very autistically complains about the ignorance concerning autism specifically.

>>14761678
Didn't see the post you were replying to. It seems that some people in this thread really do build their entire identity around autism.

>>14761691
This thread is a circle jerk of neurotypicals trashing autistics. Some of this shit glows like divide and conquer tactics to deliberately push us out and over to reddit (which is full of autism "safe spaces", for lack of a better description).

/sci/ is pretty sad. Generally more leftist and SJW than /pol/, it makes sense that you NPCs would pick on autists as you so often do - all that you care about is supporting BLM and other racist scum that burn down half the country. Those are your pet minorities on the Democrap plantation, not the neurodiverse aware of your scam and glow.

>>14761899
>It seems that some people in this thread really do build their entire identity around autism.
Well, this.

No one trashes autistics. People here only bring up dated studies and poorly sourced material and are unable to critically view it, leading to all types of myths and shit which I then try to correct because whenever I try the same with ADHD, I get insulted. At least, autists don't get overly agitated over their diagnosis du jour which won't exist in 50 years. But no one on 4chan says 'I hate autists' or some variation of it and when it happens, it's likely an autist.

>>14761911
Well I know you have your anti-psychiatry crusade and seem relatively polite about it but take a look at some of the other posts calling us retards etc. Or that fossilized talk radio dufus Michael Savage saying autistic kids are just spoiled brats that didn't get the belt enough.

You are enabling all these bullies, regardless of what you believe to be a noble cause.

>>14761667
>Autism is a psychiatric diagnosis, not a neurological one. If it was neurological, we would have long reclassified autism as an identifiable form of brain disorder that wouldn't be diagnosed by means of behavioral questionaires.
In an earlir thread, it was pointed out that autism invoved nerve cells with far more branching then seen in the rest of the population. That would seem neurological, though sampling brain tissue from living people is perhaps not entirely OK.

>This form of neuroscientism is exactly why proper research into autism is delayed
Is it? These threads tend to bring up a lot of scientific articles, not just newspaper artcles from the Daily Puke. Still, if intelligence is involved, everyone gets rather defensive.

>because people assume that all autism is the same without thinking whether or not it's tons of different issues.
Well, is there any agreement if Asperger's syndrome is just high functioning autism, or something else? As for different issues, Big Pharma is working to declare ASD is being comorbid with ADHD so they will simply just have to pump them full of Ritalin. ADHD has been a money maker, the promise ofputting another few percent on the population on heavi\y medication is a temptation they cannot resist.

>The fact that some guy like Elon and a mute head-banging kid with an IQ of 20 allegedly have the same disorder should make you suspect of the very same concept.
Well, there seems already to be an agreement that there is a wide spectrum, so what is wrong with autism being modulated by as wide an IQ span as you see in the rest of the population? Remember half the population has an IQ of tess than 100.

>>14753187
no, schizophrenia is

>>14761899
>calls non-mentally-deficient people "neurotypicals"
>complains about getting trashed
You are not differently-abled. You are disabled.

>>14762806
>In an earlir thread, it was pointed out that autism invoved nerve cells with far more branching then seen in the rest of the population.
nice ass pull

>>14761924
>autistic kids are just spoiled brats that didn't get the belt enough.

this is true, fuck off with your American 'disorder' autism doesn't exist anywhere else in the World

>>14762806
> it was pointed out that autism invoved nerve cells with far more branching then seen in the rest of the population
Yes, I know the study. I also know that the study was refuted by another study. Anecdotal evidence is always blown out of proportion because people for some reason desperately want autism to be neurological and all I tell is that the evidence simply isn't there.
>Well, there seems already to be an agreement that there is a wide spectrum,
A spectrum disorder also implies that a diagnosis has no prognostic value because it can turn out to be anything. If I diagnose a child with autism, I have absolutely no way to tell if he becomes an engineer, a janitor or a moron who requires permanent supervision. I already noted that the spectrumization of autism is a silent admission by the psychiatric establishment that the concept itself is bullshit and only kept to enable access to services. For some reason, it did not stop the public from embracing that neuromyth of autism as 'literally' different brains. Probably a marketing scheme to sell products. I know that the whole chemical imbalance theory of ADHD and depression was invented and pushed by pharmaceutical companies and people still believe it to this day.
>>14762812
>calls non-mentally-deficient people "neurotypicals"
Who gets to decide who is mentally deficient and who's not?
>The DSM-5
So, you pretty much are mentally deficient yourself then?

>>14762842
>Who gets to decide who is mentally deficient and who's not?
Nobody needs to decide anything. Everyone just looks at how you behave and sees that you're mentally deficient.

>>14762858
>Everyone just looks at how you behave and sees that you're mentally deficient.
So you provide no definition? Mental deficiency is nothing more than annoying behavior that puzzles 'normies'? How is this not a purely political tool.

>>14761085
>1nd14: 17'5 4 n4710n 0f 933k5, 5w075 4nd n32d5. 41m057 0n3 1n f1v3 0f 411 m3d1c41 4nd d3n741 574ff 1n 7h3 uk 15 0f 1nd14n 02191n, 4nd 0n3 1n 51x 3mp10y3d 5c13n71575 w17h 5c13nc3 02 3n91n3321n9 d0c7024735 1n 7h3 u5 15 4514n. 8y 7h3 7u2n 0f 7h3 m1113nn1um, 7h323 w323 3v3n c141m5 7h47 4 7h12d 0f 411 3n91n3325 1n 5111c0n v4113y w323 0f 1nd14n 02191n, w17h 1nd14n5 2unn1n9 750 0f 175 73ch c0mp4n135. 47 7h3 d4wn 0f 7h15 5c13n71f1c 23v01u710n, 933k n4710n 15 4 j0u2n3y 70 m337 7h3 1nv3n7025, 3n91n3325 4nd y0un9 5c13n71575 h31p1n9 70 91v3 8127h 70 7h3 w021d'5 n3x7 5c13n71f1c 5up32p0w32 - 4 n4710n 8u117 n07 0n c0nqu357, 011 02 m1n32415, 8u7 0n 7h3 5c13n71f1c 1n93nu17y 0f 175 p30p13. 4n9314 541n1 3xp141n5 h0w 4nc13n7 5c13nc3 15 91v1n9 w4y 70 n3w, 4nd h0w 7h3 73chn0109y 0f 7h3 w3417hy 423 p4551n9 0n 70 7h3 p002. d31v1n9 1n51d3 7h3 p5ych3 0f 1nd14'5 5c13nc3-hun92y c17123n5, 5h3 3xp10235 7h3 23450n why 7h3 90v32nm3n7 0f 7h3 m057 2311910u5 c0un72y 0n 3427h h45 pu7 175 f417h 1n 5c13nc3 4nd 73chn0109y. 7h20u9h w177y f1257-h4nd 23p027493 4nd p3n372471v3 4n41y515, 933k n4710n 3xp141n5 wh47 7h15 m34n5 f02 7h3 2357 0f 7h3 w021d, 4nd h0w 4 5p1217u41 n4710n 5qu4235 175 50u1 w17h h42d 24710n4117y. fu11 0f cu210u5, c010u2fu1 ch424c7325 4nd 921pp1n9 5702135, 17 d35c21835 1nd14 7h20u9h 175 p30p13 - 4 n4710n 0f 933k5.

>>14761658
I used imprecise language and should have described it as a neurological model for autism rather than just autism, but I also see you get hung up on this because you have a mechanistic concept of autism, kind of like the Turing test for consciousness.
>Her external behavior is autism
No psychiatrist even believes that. Behavior is used to diagnose autism, autism itself is the state the autist is in. Since unlike with robots we know autists are people, we also know there's a certain way of what it is like to be an autist, and autists themselves can potentially at least tell others about it. For example, autists have a tendency to take things literally and thus difficulties with processing metaphors. This is something that happens in cognition, not behavior. Is it not autism because of that? Another example is an increased threat perception when looking at faces and eyes specifically, which is measurable as increased amygdala activity. This might manifest in behavior as avoidance of eye contact, but it still correlates to an identifiable neurological abnormality and a conscious experience that make up autism regardless of what behavior follows.
>Which is characteristic of all autists but none of the non-autists?
No, it was one example of the three specializations I mentioned. Even a verbally specialized autist's brain would give images as the result of an fMRI scan. The characteristic overconnectivity is something that would only stand out for high-functioning specialists like Temple Grandin, which as I mentioned give a clearer picture of what could characterize autism neurologically than theorizing in a bottom-up way, which is not where autism research stands right now. Like telling an apple apart from a banana macroscopically rather than on a molecular level. (cont)

>>14763149
It's not unreasonable to assume that continuous variation in connectivity gives rise to a spectrum of autistic traits that barely give a signal at the neurotypical level and can be muddied by disablities that have nothing to do with autism. Abnormal connectivity in different brain regions will also lead to different symptomatic outcomes in cognition and behavior. Lastly, how crudely autism is understood can be seen as a reflection of how crudely the brain is understood, whereas you want to jump ahead and proclaim it a fake disorder.

>>14762817
>literally just watched a NHK doc about a Japanese woman with ASD
No, you fuck off eurotrash with your anti-American bullshit and fucking body odor from never bathing.

>>14762858
That's totally relative you silly NPC. Transplant over-socialized, emasculated, SJW, culturally-suicidal, self hating office drone nu males that dominate modernity into the past and they would be in the looney bin within minutes after spouting their bullshit. That means you, champ.

>>14761899
>This thread is a circle jerk of neurotypicals trashing autistics.
I am not sure how you can believe this. 4ch is often contrarian, edgy, and hip in a misunderstood way, but when you shave off the noise, a lot of interesting signal remains. Also there are all kinds of people with all kinds of conditions, so there should not need to be some kind of systemic hate against autists and aspies.

>Some of this shit glows like divide and conquer tactics to deliberately push us out and over to reddit (which is full of autism "safe spaces", for lack of a better description).
That place is a horrific parody of pseudo sincere "thinkers" with a major Ritalin problem. They may allege to be ASD friendly but I see no sincerity. Rather the cliched 4ch regular is on the spectrum.

>/sci/ is pretty sad. Generally more leftist and SJW than /pol/,
Really?? I have been here for only 5 years but I never saw any of that.

>it makes sense that you NPCs would pick on autists as you so often do - all that you care about is supporting BLM and other racist scum that burn down half the country. Those are your pet minorities on the Democrap plantation, not the neurodiverse aware of your scam and glow.
There may be the occasional tourist from that other place but I do not see them as reprsentative in any way of 4ch in general.

>>14763149
> Behavior is used to diagnose autism, autism itself is the state the autist is in.
So, autism is a singularly state of mind that can be inferred from a wide array of behavioral issues? That state of mind is the same in every autist? Every autist is a picture-thinker? Where do you source that material?
>For example, autists have a tendency to take things literally and thus difficulties with processing metaphors.
Research shows that at least a good third, maybe even more, of all autists do not actually have trouble at all with processing metaphors. And the other two-third cluster heavily with syndroms such as mental retardation and language disorders so the issue is not present in all autists nor limited to them.
>we also know there's a certain way of what it is like to be an autist, and autists themselves can potentially at least tell others about it.
You did not comment on my last comment as to why autists often give very diverging accounts of their own 'autism' that makes it obvious that they have actually little in common with each other, at least mental-wise.
>Another example is an increased threat perception when looking at faces and eyes specifically, which is measurable as increased amygdala activity.
Anecdotal evidence.
>The characteristic overconnectivity is something that would only stand out for high-functioning specialists like Temple Grandin
Anecdotal evidence.
>which as I mentioned give a clearer picture of what could characterize autism neurologically than theorizing in a bottom-up way
Before you claimed it was a clearly proven neurological state of mind, now it just 'might' and 'could' be?
>>14763151
You're providing me with little more than anecdotal evidence. All you say is, it must be this way, that way because you're simply stuck up in your identitarian neurodiversity cult.

>>14763457
Cont.
>Abnormal connectivity in different brain regions will also lead to different symptomatic outcomes in cognition and behavior.
Anecdotal evidence and really not proven either.
>Lastly, how crudely autism is understood can be seen as a reflection of how crudely the brain is understood, whereas you want to jump ahead and proclaim it a fake disorder.
There's really no point in arguing with you when all you do is proclaim that a very large number of different neurological issues that could give rise to autistic behavior is all the same. Do we also argue that Down's and Prader-Willi are the same because they both give rise to funny-looking retards? Eventually, hard resarch into autism will reveal that it is a large number of different neurological issues. Once this happens, we can finally address the issue and prevent/cure it. We already know that a certain number of autism cases are the result of specific brain damage, genetic disorders.

>>14763457
Cont.
>Abnormal connectivity in different brain regions will also lead to different symptomatic outcomes in cognition and behavior.
Anecdotal evidence and really not proven either.
>Lastly, how crudely autism is understood can be seen as a reflection of how crudely the brain is understood, whereas you want to jump ahead and proclaim it a fake disorder.
There's really no point in arguing with you when all you do is proclaim that a very large number of different neurological issues that could give rise to autistic behavior is all the same. Do we also argue that Down's and Prader-Willi are the same because they both give rise to funny-looking retards? Eventually, hard research into autism will reveal that it is a large number of different neurological issues. Once this happens, we can finally address the issue and prevent/cure it. At that point, it stops making sense to speak of autism as anything other than the epiphenomenal feature that may come along with a number of neurogenetic and neuroanatomical issues.

>>14753187
>is it?
I don't think so, we are in strange times, no predictions about future evolutions can be made I guess

>>14761899
>Autistic Style
>Comfortable clothes
>super soft, no nast seams
Really? I thought there was a preference for compression clothing in general, and a secret preference for latex in particular.

>>14763564
You would think so. They make millions by selling pressure bedware to parents of autistic children.

>>14763564
I've never even heard of this but it explains the stereotypical predilection of transwomen for stocking and hosiery.

>>14763604
>autism causes transsexuality meme.

>>14763614

>>14755990
Nice Geocities, you make it yourself?

>>14763614
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/
>People who do not identify with the sex they were assigned at birth are three to six times as likely to be autistic as cisgender people are, according to the largest study yet to examine the connection
Yeah bro, just a meme.

>>14763634
Yet it's you who has saved pictures of transmen on your computer.

>>14763637
>Yeah bro, just a meme.
I love how people here just accept a single study at face value.

You do know that even with three to six times figures, other studies suggest only two times figure, most transwomen and men are not autistic and most autists not transgender?

>>14763645
>You do know that even with three to six times figures, other studies suggest only two times figure, most transwomen and men are not autistic and most autists not transgender?
Yes, I'm well aware. You do realize that stereotypes usually aren't universally true?

>>14763564
Some autistics go absolutely nuts over shit like labels an stuff pushing on them, but that's minimal in my case. As a kid, i used to tear out labels just because there was something annoying about their superfluity not because irritation. Couldn't stand underwear and only wore them as a kid in case of penis inspection day at school or shit and still don't, I suppose I do have some of the aspie dislike of seams and shit.

Yes compression is popular, and weighted blankets and shit with many aspies. Guess it really is a spectrum.

>>14763604
Women's hosiery offers alot of sensory stimulation, covering so much of the body, adding uniform color and appearance to legs and the compression of tights or pantyhose for sure. So your theory is sound.

>>14763199
Link?

>>14763684
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwNA7LT0hOY
She starts at :37 or so. God, as an aspie what I would do for a cute Japanese aspie waifu like that...ugh why live?

>>14753857
It's because the Autists are blackballed from society unless they're shoved into some position where their Autism-Superpowers are underutilized, and anything they actually do accomplish is just stolen by peak-normies.

It shouldn't even exist as it currently does; because the people in charge of diagnosing everyone with some genetic/social inadequacy are clearly NOT the people who should be throwing stones. It's basically a meme, but also not really because of our system(s) that have extensive files on everyone that will assign relatively normal individuals with ~100 different psychological defects and the people with unhinged mental illnesses are praised, despite their overwhelming slightly above-averageness from spending 90% of their character points into "Confidence".

>>14754737
Fascinating.
Hey, I've been doing research into DNA and genetics.
Is it true that DNA, mRNA, and other biology jazz is actually just referring to Sociology/Psychology traits and other marketing-like gimmicks?

>>14754848
>change the definition of ASD which is based primarily on psychiatric research
No I want you to burn it to the ground.

>>14755292
That's literally the Medical Industry.
They have a fucking meltdown and start screaming at everyone if anyone dares to question their authority and present any evidence that they are lying sacks of shit.

>>14763637
>https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/
I found this:
>lower rates of empathy
Is this really accepted, as opposed to lower ability to the ability to understand others?

Evil kitty terminating for financial reward if nobody knows you are responsible allistics. Don't you know studies have shown that we have stronger internal ethics than NTs. And somehow this is considered "disability".

>>14762927
>So you provide no definition?
Nope. Why do I need to?

>How is this not a purely political tool.
What's so political about my noticing your mental deficiency?

>>14763219
>That's totally relative
Sure, in exactly the same sense that calling a 70 IQ individual a "retard" is totally relative.

>>14763671
Have you tried latex?
I used latex gloves when I was working in labs but found them extrenely uncomfortable. Those were really cheap but I was told wet lubricated gloves are better than powder lubricated gloves.
Seems latex models lube themselves up top to toe when putting on latex catsuits. So I guess that workds.

>>14763762
>It's because the Autists are blackballed from society unless they're shoved into some position where their Autism-Superpowers are underutilized, and anything they actually do accomplish is just stolen by peak-normies.
That is a good summary of academia these days.

>>14753187
According a long list of references from the Gundum Universe. Yes autism is the next stage of human evolution.

>>14763694
There are many autobiographical ASD web comics and also a manga that seems autobiographical. Seems ASD life in Japan is hard.

>>14764155
>Seems ASD life in Japan is hard.
It's odd to consider that it's hard to be autistic in what we consider the most autistic society there is but I guess there is a difference between collectively autistic culture (resistance to change, set ways of doing things, all sorts of general aspects of Japan) and individual autism.

>>14753187
they don't breed too good tho. so not sure if the genes will flourish. also, womens liberation and late motherhood are thought to be the cause of the autist wave. market economy just knows to take advantage of our skills in this high-tech computer age.

>>14764237
Several of my colleagues who appear to be on e spectrum have themselves children who definitively are on the spectrum. Anectodal for sure but at least it shows it happens.

>>14764108
>Nope. Why do I need to?
So you forfeit?

>>14764269
>So you forfeit?
No, but you just did because you clearly can't answer that question.

>>14764237
>also, womens liberation and late motherhood are thought to be the cause of the autist wave
I already debunked that in this thread.
>>14754658
>>14754706
It's a factoid mostly endorsed by idiots/autists who think that 'old sperm is good', despite all the evidence to the contrary, and feel entitled to a teenage girl. The average age at conception of a child increased by 3 years in the last 30 years. Allowing for the highest margins, only 9 % of the autism increase could be explained that way.
>Anectodal for sure but at least it shows it happens.
Considering just how trivialized autism has become, soon everyone is on the spectrum.

>>14764274
Alright, you have forfeited.

>>14764286
It's pretty funny how nonsentients like you talk about "normies" but then short out when someone questions the need for some official consensus about who's retarded and suggests that anyone can independently tell a retard when he sees one.

>>14764237
Here's to hoping the Market will get me some good jobs. ;)

>>14764311
>It's pretty funny how nonsentients like you talk about "normies"
Wasn't me who talked about "normies" and I wasn't trash-talking about "normies" either.
I just want you to give me a good definition of mental deficiency.
>but then short out when someone questions the need for some official consensus about who's retarded and suggests that anyone can independently tell a retard when he sees one.
Walk funny? Retarded. Speech impediment? Retarded. You're operating on the level of a 8-year-old. Clearly not quite normal either.

>>14764092
FUCK YOU, THIS COMIC HAS MADE ME GO ON A RABBITHOLE OF "AUTISM AWARENESS" (BECAUSE AUTISM IS INFINITE), AND I HATE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE PRETEND THAT AUTISM ISN'T WRONG OR HARMFUL! JUST LOOK AT HOW MANY PRONOUNS THEY HAVE, HOW CAN YOU IGNORE THAT DELUSIONAL IMPOSTOR SYNDROME AND DOUBTING YOUR OWN REALITY ISN'T GOOD! JUST BECAUSE YOU LIVE BY YOUR PRINCIPLES DOESN'T MAKE YOU A GOOD PERSON! ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS IS SOME CHUDDY AUTISTS MAKING DEMANDS TO NOT OFFEND THEM OR TO REDUCE HARM, FUCK ALL OF THEM! SUPPRESS YOUR AUTISM PLEASE! AUTISTS SHOULD BE BANISHED FROM THE INTERNET! FUCK YOU!

>>14764367
So where does this all leave us? As far as I can tell, you're still denying that people can and should make their own judgments instead of filing for approval with the bug collective.

>>14764367
>>14764681
After all, let's be honest here: you take issue not with the fact that some occasional infantile is going to mislabel you when you're not actually retarded, but that most people will independently come to the conclusion that you're some kind of a retard, and this needs to be addressed by forcing some "rational" autist-approved consensus on everyone.

>>14764576
>1 comic strip
>1 NT nut triggered into having a fit
mission accomplished

>>14764943
he's right, autists are egotistic snowflakes, they're annoying and should be banished from the internet

>>14764982
Banish us from the internet and you will find out who runs Bartertown in a hurry as we embargo you, turn off technology, and found our own "Galt's Gulch" tier utopia for autistics.

>>14765010
containment country wouldn't be so bad, t b h