/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14759800
This is the IQ of your typical /sci/ OP

>>14759800
What's not right here? Solar Panels charge batteries which are used to power when the sun isn't in the sky.

I don't think I've ever seen a solar setup that didn't charge into a battery supply.
Even the little 10W panels you can buy for hiking come with a battery pack.

>>14760969
From what I know the solar "power plants" feed directly into the grid.
Solar has its uses for RVs and house installations, but it only becomes viable on a national level if you intentionally disadvantage all other options.

>>14760965
>>14760969
People need power both during day and night.

>>14760994
If only we could store excess power in batteries. Also, nighttime power is much more limited; a better argument against solar power is extreme weather.

>he doesn't harness the POWER OF THE SUN GOD
ngmi

>>14761003
>nighttime power is much more limited
power consumption that is.

>>14760981
>if you intentionally disadvantage all other options.
How does Germany disadvantage all other options?
>billions in subsidies for coal
>need to bulldoze these historic villages to mine lignite? Go ahead
>need to destroy one of the oldest forests in Europe? Sure
>some nasty protests? Don't worry, we'll send the police to act as you private security guards and beat the hippies to a pulp
>what's that nuclear? You don't want to deal with your waste? Sure, let us handle it
Germany actually does the opposite and solar is still cheaper.

>>14759800
The magnetic field inversion would fry any electrical grid

Oil is abiogenic and renewable

OP is a faggot

>le dunking on reddit chuds
you have to go back

>>14759819
fpbp
/thread
OP sucks dick

>>14761117
Look at the profile of this chud. Literal autistic virgin.

>>14761180
> Look at the profile of this chud
you have to go back too

>>14761010
Germany is tanking their own economy in a vain attempt to not buy Russian oil because Germany’s government works for Zelenskyy.

Guess what ethnoreligious group Zelenskyy is and you’ll understand why all the grannies that Germany’s covid lockdowns saved are not going to die due to freezing to death in the winter for Zelenskyy’s benefit.

>>14761010
Germany annihilated its own nuclear industry though... They're closing tons of their plants and fucking their economy for no reason.

>>14759819
best post of the year

>>14761003
Retard alert. Total US grid scale battery size: 6.6GW. Average US base load during summer: 500GW. Not even on the same order of magnitude.
>>14759819
>>14761089
>>14761117
>>14761363
Your nose is showing.

>>14761010
How did Germany go from being the intellectual powerhouse a little over a century ago to... This.

What made Germans so retarded within such a relatively short amount of time?

>>14761374
dilate

>>14761397
NO
OBSERVABLE
TEMPERATURE
RISE

>>14761379
We fought for the wrong side in WW2

>>14761398
hey man i don't care if global warming is happening either way not like i can do anything about it but seriously go back

>>14761379
They want to destroy Germany.

>>14761404
People in power want you to lose your rights and lifestyle to stop something that science can't prove is happening.

Wannabe basedentists ITT thinking real life is like Factorio where you can build batteries to be discharged at night LOL

>>14761418
i’m gonna go scooby doo all over they ass

>>14761379
The nazis forced a lot of intellectuals out of the country or into early retirement
the small handful that continued working through the nazi regime then bailed out to other countries after the war

>>14761453
>The nazis forced a lot of intellectuals out of the country or into early retirement
>the small handful that continued working through the nazi regime then bailed out to other countries after the war
All of their best scientists were taken captive and brought to America at the end of the war. Bailed out is a very weak way to paper over the "work or hang" nature of Paperclip.

>>14759800
>they base their energy policies on what Magic the Gathering has to say
Why are United Statesians like this?

>>14761418
>your rights and lifestyle
rights and lifestyle? you mean so you can be /comfy/ in your mom's basement and play video games all day? have you ever heard of parks, anon? books? the opposite sex?

>>14760965
Typical example of low IQ post.
Not every solar installation has batteries.
There is no mention of batteries in the picture. And as you stated the batteries are produced the power at night the solar panels themselves do not store the charge as clearly stated in the picture.

>>14761614
incel fingers typed this post

>>14759800
>ESL
>reddit
>green
>shills
Can we build some nuclear power plants instead of funding scams?

>>14761010
solar and wind power destroy way more nature than a nuclear power plant. Green cultists sabotage anything not part of their scam network, and oil and coal just buy carbon credits (also a scam).

>>14761614
The UN plan to reduce Man's "climate impact" involves preventing people from entering the majority of the world's wilderness. So no, you won't even get parks. Or the cars to reach them.

>>14761614

>>14761374
So build more batteries? That industry has been exploding over the past few years. And it won't need to be 500GW since:
>night has reduced power consumption
>other more consistent methods (i.e. nuclear and fossil fuels) can still account for majority of power

>>14761828
A hundred fold increase in battery production sounds good for the environment. I love being a smart person who trusts the experts.

>>14761828
Where will you be mining all that lithium, pray tell? And with what power source?

>>14761828
>batteries are "green"
Coal and oil are probably the only thing less green, and even thats debatable.

>>14761855
Coal and oil are more "green" because battery production requires millions of tons of radioactive mine tailings to be stored somewhere. Usually they just end up dumped in watersheds.

>>14761705
The only good part about this is knowing that our enemies aren't evil masterminds, they're just evil fucking retards.

>>14761888
Money and power doesn't make you smarter, just the biggest midwit.
>Checked

>>14759819
>>14761119
>>14761363
reddit moment

>>14760969
>I don't think I've ever seen a solar setup that didn't charge into a battery supply
You almost certainly have. Most residential installations of solar panels in the US aren't even owned by the homeowner, but by a utility company. Those panels have to be wired to the grid because that's how the utility turns a profit. The homeowner gets "free" solar panels (and they do get to keep them at the end of the 25 year contract), but if they want a battery system they have to purchase it. Some do, but certainly not everyone.
t. dude tried to get a 25 year lease on my roof for six bucks a month

>>14761835
>>14761854
>>14761855
>>14761860
>literally batteries are the only energy storage method
I don't give a fuck about climate change or the environment but this board is criminally retarded.

>>14762127
He said batteries, which are usually necessary because of location. You cant just make water pump storage reservoirs anywhere, and most other storage is considerably more inefficient. You're welcome to make suggestions instead of snide remarks.

>>14762156
>You cant just make water pump storage reservoirs anywhere
You could at microhydro scale. The reservoirs are even built already. Water towers.

This thread is full of retards

Sage

>>14762195
>water towers in the ocean
>water towers in the mountains
>not realizing how much water you need to actually pump to store energy
The math and economics does not check out. Sure if you're talking about a small rural town, but not possible to power a moderate coastal city.

>>14762201
Sodium batteries
>>14762195
Pressurized gas
Biofuel

Oil shills think there is only one way to store or get energy.

>>14761398
sure bud
https://climateclock.net/

>>14762221
>doesn't show the actual temperatures
>less than 200 years
>expecting accuracy from 1850
Thats a bad graph, but even so, how is this evidence its "human caused" and not just a natural phenomena?

>>14762302
>doesn't show the actual temperatures
You've seen the plots with temperatures
>less than 200 years
You've seen the plots with thousands of years
>expecting accuracy from 1850
Baseless claim that no accurate values can be obtained for temperatures in 1850
>how is this evidence its "human caused" and not just a natural phenomena?
All reasoning was already laid out to you and you chose to ignore it.

>>14761374
>Total US grid scale battery size: 6.6GW. Average US base load during summer: 500GW.
That's not the unit or dimension of batteries.

>>14762324
So basically your argument is BELIEVE SCIENCE? Ok.

>>14762334
My argument is that you're a poor troll who doesn't even get his own points straight. The gif was supposed to counter "no observable temperature change". You don't need an absolute scale for that. You don't need an arbitrary number of years for that, the change is visible. The precision of the measurements is visible from the fluctuations that are overshadowed by the change in mean. There's no point in showing you more. The things presented already refute that claim.

>>14762345
You have no scale, you don't even show the 1 degree ring because the graph is meant to be dishonest.
150 years IS an arbitrary date range.
The changes ARE NOT visible. The statue of liberty is still on dry land, billionaires still buy ocean front property.
Precision does matter when you are talking about tenths of a degree.
You're just a dishonest liar supporting a false narrative with no actual scientific basis, but billions in propaganda.

>>14762359
>Imagine being this retarded

>>14762366
>being right is retarded
You got blown out, dumb shill.

>>14762324
I've seen the plots with thousands of years. The Medieval Climate Optimum was hotter than now, and then it cooled again.

>>14762378
That's not true. That's true for this one ice core in Greenland that dishonest shills always post, but not for the global temperature.

>>14762359
You don't need a scale to call the change observable. It is clearly visible independent of scale, the wetness of the statue of liberty's feet and ocean front property prices.

>>14762359
>billionaires still buy ocean front property.
If billionaires can still afford flood insurance it can't be too bad, amirite?

>batteries
If you want something useful for grid-scale power storage then do what South Australia is doing and build a hydrogen power plant. Due to large amounts of household solar installations combined with large wind farms they frequently produce far in excess of what they need, so the idea is to use the excess to power an electrolysis plant to generate hydrogen that can then be stored and used as is needed in a hydrogen power plant during lows in renewables output. iirc they're aiming for a storage capacity of approx 3 months worth.

>>14762387
> It is clearly visible independent of scale, the wetness of the statue of liberty's feet and ocean front property prices.
What are you saying? Liberty island is clearly not underwater. Along with dozens of other places that are not under water. Any places that have gone under water are because they are sinking, not because oceans are rising.

>>14762392
>billionaires are buying property that will disappears in 20 years
>implying insurance companies would sell flood insurance to properties that are allegedly going to be under water in a few years
retard

>>14762413
>allegedly going to be under water in a few years
Please point out where anyone claimed this.

>>14762429
So we're just going to pretend rising sea levels hasn't been a talking point for green energy scams? Or you're just trying to make a dishonest "argument" again since you got blown t he fuck out?

>>14762413
>imagine thinking that 23cm sink liberty island
Hey retard, it's 4m above sea level. At the current rise of 3.4mm/a, it will take over 1000 years until it's permanently underwater. No one ever claimed it would be permanently under water in a few years because that would be a ridiculous claim. But sea levels are rising and it is a problem regardless of some uninhabited island in New York.

>>14762440
Please point out where someone claimed this. I'm waiting.

>>14762441
>>14762442
>No one ever claimed it would be permanently under water in a few years because that would be a ridiculous claim.
>literally an article every week for decades on how rising sea levels will decimate coasts and we have to stop global warming by funding green projects
I do not forget your dirty lies.

>>14761453
>muh nazi boogeyman

>>14762447
>literally an article every week for decades on how rising sea levels will decimate coasts
>slightly shifting goalposts (decimation could also mean flooding, yet you're claiming stuff was predicted to be underwater)
>still incapable of pointing out anyone who said that (in this thread it's clear, but not even an article?)

>>14762201
Based, I love using cobalt for my diesel

>>14762397
>hydromeme
No.

>>14762201
>keep using oil
>need to fight sandniggers willing to die over their sky daddy

>start using electric
>only need to fight nigger niggers which we have been putting in their place for centuries

Why would you pretend these are similar? Afghanistan is called the graveyard of empires for a reason, no empire ever collapsed from going to war with the Congo.

>>14762456
>If I pretend I haven't seen dozens of articles about disastrous sea level rises, then I win!
>claims opponent is moving goal posts when you literally moved goal posts multiple times away from solar, wind, batteries, and green scams, to rising temperatures, to claiming no one has said rising sea levels is happening
https://www.google.com/search?q=rising+sea+levels&tbm=nws

>>14762472
I still see no claims that the sea levels would rise by meters.
I'm starting to suspect you're a little stupid.

>>14762477
>changing your claim
>not giving a time range
>claiming someone else made the claim while also saying no one made the claim
Youre just a liar.

But that's the issue with those types. They geniunely think FFs are replacable when they are not. RE isn't even sustainable without FF at large scales to maintain current industrial societes. And we are already past peak oil/gads/coal.
Teddy will have his win in the end.

>>14762488
You haven't even provided a citation for any time and any of the claims you made.

>>14762494
I gave you a link with unlimited articles. You have just been lying.

>>14761010
>Germany actually does the opposite and solar is still cheaper.
Liar

Retard here. I want to build my own little solar gadgets for fun. Where can I learn about the electronics and access a cheap supply of parts? Like what sort of engine and how big a panel. About all I know is how to solder.

For example I want to make a little solar powered fan that I can stick on my desk. Just something small, like maybe 4 to 6 cm wide, to keep the air moving when the sun comes out and the room gets warm.

I have looked on line but all I can find is big boy projects and people working with budgets way over my income. I would be more into recycling parts doing things on the cheap.

>>14762501
None of the first 50 links contained any of your claims.

>>14762504
No u

>>14762387
>That's true for this one ice core in Greenland that dishonest shills always post, but not for the global temperature.
Scientific consensus is it was global. Tree ring data supports it.

>>14762558
Wrong.

>>14762566
You're simply lying. Climate proxies sampled from locations across the world report the same general shape of the medieval peak at the height reported by European data simultaneously worldwide.

https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/mcculloch.2/AGW/Loehle/Loehle_McC_E&E_2008.pdf

>>14762585
So what exactly is this supposed to prove?
>The Medieval Climate Optimum was hotter than now, and then it cooled again.
??
Their data ends in 1935, not today.

>>14762605
You didn't even read the paper bro. How are you this blatant of a shill?

This entire paper is to confirm the validity of the graphs you claimed to be false. It only covers the period before the advent of modern climatology and recording, because that's the only part of the data which was ever in doubt. It reconfirms the conclusion that the Medieval Warm Period was exactly as warm as the supposedly "debunked" ice cores and tree rings showed.

>>14762613
You're just a poor liar. No borscht for you.

>>14762615
Anyone who reads our comments will see I cited legitimate research and you just posted a picture of some crank Michael Mann claims. If this is the best the green shills can bring to bear, then it's no wonder you're a laughing stock.

>>14762621
You cited research data comparing 1935 data with the medieval warm period. I cited research data comparing 21th century data with the MWP. Your chairman will be disappointed.

>>14762515
>I would be more into recycling parts doing things on the cheap.
good plan, the hobbyist electronics market is highly inflated right now. buy:
>cheap soldering iron
>solder sucker
>solder, flux, other basics
and start raiding old circuit boards for parts. try not to explode a capacitor in your face and have fun

>>14762642
No, no. I cited data *confirming* that the original study that showed the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than the modern era was true. You're not willing to admit that it's right so you didn't read it.

Lol

>>14762740
They're really not sending their best are they? But if people fell for the covid hoax they'll believe anything.

>>14762668
Thanks!!
But how do I avoid exploding capacitors? And do you have any idea what to raid for working solar panels? Like would old Xmas lights do ( like those ones people use outdoors? ). My space is very limited so I can not start hoarding heaps of parts if its just going to turn out to be junk.

>>14762795
>>But how do I avoid exploding capacitors?
keep the voltage under the limit for the capacitor, and don't connect it the wrong way round
as for solar panels, you just need a sufficient amount. recycled electronics may not work as well as they did when they were new, but as long as you have enough of them (and they're not totally broken), you can make your fan work
you can get the solar panels from pocket calculators, those little toys that dance, garden lights... they're quite rare. you might want to buy one

>>14762737
>that showed the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than the modern era was
Your fucking modern era ends in 1935. Your paper makes no claim whatsoever about the modern era (post 1935, not in the arts sense).

I've found one that includes your Loehle and more modern measurements. guess what: We were already above Loehle's MWP before 2000.

>>14762737
>>14762867
Also, as a good scientist you wouldn't trust a single source, would you? Loehle clearly isn't the only guy who reconstructed the global mean temperature. Here's Loehle in blue and a bunch of other reconstructions. Hmm, Loehle's MWP suspiciously looks like an outlier here. So is it possible that the actual value are more towards the lower end of his enormous error bands? Either way, the recorded temperature exceeded it.

>>14762737
>>14762867
>>14762875
What's that? It's not the 1990s anymore? Sure, let's see what happened since the year 2000. Oh shit oh fuck. The global mean temperature rose by another 0.4 °C between the year 2000 and today. I can't really read off where that other graph stops, but it's before 2000. So you can add at least 0.4 °C on top of that one.

>>14762743
Kids aren't old enough to remember when it was originally called "global cooling".
When "global warming" also turned out to be unfounded bullshit, they figured out "climate change" can be used to blame any weather on their consistently failed apocalypse predictions.
Climate hysteria is disingenous pseudoscientific nonsense, because instead of ever acknowledging their hypotheses fail, they just push back their apocalypse prediction another two weeks, ad infinitum, without ever seriously examining why their climate hysteria models always fail.

>>14762894
>When "global warming" also turned out to be unfounded bullshit, they figured out "climate change" can be used to blame any weather on their consistently failed apocalypse predictions.
The opposite is true. It a was the deniers and downplayers who pushed for the change in phrasing. George W. Bush pushed the term climate change because it is "less frightening" (page 12 of docrel, although the entire thing is worth reading. This is first-hand evidence on how conservatives work on their anti-science strategy).


https://theguardian.com/environment/2003/mar/04/usnews.climatechange

>>14762803
That's awesome advice! Thanks!
My knowledge of electronics is so rudimentary I am going to find a source for learners. I am looking forward to tinkering around, its so much better than trying to take it all in from text books.

>>14762964
>I am looking forward to tinkering around, its so much better than trying to take it all in from text books.
That's only an option with cheap electronics and low voltages. At >50V you should know what you're doing before you start tinkering. EEVblog has great videos though

>>14762969
Right, I will be only messing about with small solar panels for quite a while. Just want to make small harmless stuff, like fans, lights, toys, simple mechanical devices run off solar power, then eventually stuff with sensors to detect motion, temperature, humidity. I am more interested to learn how this stuff works rather than the end product itself. I will look up this EEVblog though.

>>14762894
fuck off retard

also, that foil is cellophane
cellophane is just as biodegradable as the paper straw

>>14762947
>ITS YOUR FAULT
No, you're a gay nigger.

>>14763024
>>ITS YOUR FAULT
Is your name George W. Bush?

Read the document. The government deceived the general public.

>>14762947
It's mid-August and the thermometer hasn't peaked over 80F for a week, i.e. local conditions are at present cooler than the norm for this region and this time of year. Is "global warming" a more accurate description of this phenomenon than "climate change," or were the Republicans correct?

>>14763160
>Is "global warming" a more accurate description of this phenomenon than "climate change,"
Neither is an accurate description. The temperature in one location within a week is called weather. What you're describing is neither climate, nor global. I should not have to explain this to an adult that graduated high school.

>>14763144
Then why does every single climate hysteric keep calling it "climate change" if it's some kind of right wing psyop, retard? Were conservatives also the ones who originally called it "global cooling"?

>>14763212
Since there are no "climate hysterics", this question does not have a defined answer. It is like if I asked you why the king of France has a beard.

> if it's some kind of right wing psyop,
I just presented proof that it is a right wing psyop, so you can leave out the conditional form.
>Were conservatives also the ones who originally called it "global cooling"?
I have never read that anywhere except from seething rightoids. So I'm inclined to answer yes.

>>14759800

Utility scale solar installations typically feature a accompanying battery or energy storage facility such that the trickle charge during the day can be evenly distributed at night when power is no longer being generated.

These can take many different forms, some toxic such as lead-acid batteries or lithium batteries - but many equally if not moreso effective means of storing power in an environmentally friendly way exists. These typically involve pumped Hydro units, or mass batteries (wherein a large mass is slowly lifted by a motor during the day and at night it is let down, then the motor acts as a generator.

We can genuinely support our entire power dependency off of renewables given we have the ability to use these energy storage means - the only reason we don't is because the upfront cost. Happy to show the RoI for solar panels vs non-renewables + efficiency of energy storage methods vs battery storage if you want sauce.

>>14762206

It definitely isn't viable at every location, pumped Hydro, but transmission lines are very capable of moving stored power extremely long distances at high voltage with very little loss (relatively). Mountainous areas with aquifers have the large water sources and elevation differential necessary for reasonable adoption, but those areas can transmit power very far away (look at where the power for the hoover dam is used, the distance from the actual dam) so this is less of a concern.

Also you can manufacture water towers, and if the area has a elevation differential of any reasonable height and no water, gravity batteries would fulfill their needs (though less efficiently than pumped Hydro)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_battery

>>14763227
LOL
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/50-years-of-failed-doomsday-eco-pocalyptic-predictions-the-so-called-experts-are-0-50/

>>14763227
>Since there are no "climate hysterics"
Right, because the belief that cow farts will cause the planet to be underwater by the year 1995 is just common sense, not hysterical.

>>14763244
>American Enterprise Institute
>literally and verifiably funded by ExxonMobil
Also, global cooling isn't mentioned even once on that website. Can't you at least find a propaganda piece that backs your claims?

>>14763252
>the belief that cow farts will cause the planet to be underwater by the year 1995
No one believes that or has ever believed that.

>>14763259
You believe that.

>>14759800
> reading Reddit
You have to go back.
I didn't make the rules. The one-dimensional spergs on this board did.

Are you all retarded?

1) You can go solar alone with utility to save money
2) You can go solar with battery with utility for backups (doesn't make financial sense unless you live in disaster prone area)
3) You can go solar + battery without utility (offgrid)
4) You can go solar only without utility (YOLO style)
5) You can just rely on grid and pray the grid doesn't fuck up

If you want disaster proof, go for 2nd. If you want something that makes financial sense, go for 1st. If you want to live outside city, go for 3rd. If you're a retard, go for 4th. If you're stupid/poor/dont own a home, stay 5th.

>nooooo it's antisemitic that all these private businesses are building solar, we need communism NOW to solve this

>>14763292
solar = demoncrats = commies

>>14763292
Libtard alert. No one is willingly switching to solar. It's all a big government mandate

>>14763172
I'm not describing an isolated phenomenon, though. Whether you call it "global warming" or "climate change," the phenomenon in question is characterized by an enduring pattern of weather anomalies across the globe and over an interval of time. The weather anomaly I'm describing is one point (really a vector) of that phenomenon.

I'm honestly asking which you think is a better label, and why. "Global warming" indicates that the sum of all such vectors points to the warming direction, but as you point out, it's easily misinterpreted as making a claim about the direction of any particular vector. "Global climate change" doesn't give you the direction of that vector sum, but it's less prone to interpretation. In the domain of public messaging, I think the latter approach is better.

>>14763330
*less prone to misinterpretation

>>14762113
Odd, where i live and all the people i know who have panels had to buy them via a loan that is typically a 20 year term.

>>14763273
No. And you cannot provide a single source that anyone else believes that.

>>14763349
Then presumably, either (a) you and all the people you know live in states that haven't deregulated public utilities, as the scheme requires that you switch over to the solar panel provider as your electrical supplier; (b) they can't make enough of a profit off of your roofs to justify sending someone out to ring your doorbell; or (c) they sent someone to ring your doorbell but you didn't take the bait.

>>14763244
What a joke of a website. I looked into a few of the claims and it's just pathetic.
>50. 2011: Washington Post Predicted Cherry Blossoms Blooming in Winter
Let's look at this and take the most dire prediction
>According to the more dire global warming scenario the scientists used — one with unchecked global population growth — the District’s cherry trees could be blooming 29 days earlier by 2080 and 13 days earlier by 2050.
How can they claim it's a failed prediction in 2022?

>47. 2005: Fifty Million Climate Refugees by the Year 2020
Okay?
>Rising sea levels, desertification and shrinking freshwater supplies will create up to 50 million environmental refugees by the end of the decade, experts warn today. Janos Bogardi, director of the Institute for Environment and Human Security at the United Nations University in Bonn, said creeping environmental deterioration already displaced up to 10 million people a year, and the situation would get worse.
So, first of all, the AEI shills are incapable of comprehending the phrase "up to", but also fail at basic maths several times. If the article is released in 2005, then "the end of the decade" is not 2020, but 2010. And if we already have up to 10 million per year, then up to 50 million doesn't sound unreasonable at all over 5 more years. But let's look at the facts:
>According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), an annual average of 21.5 million people have been forcibly displaced by weather-related events – such as floods, storms, wildfires and extreme temperatures – since 2008.
Oh what? So the 50 million are entirely realistic.

>36. 2006: Super Hurricanes!
>Breitbart
pass

>37. 2005 : Manhattan Underwater by 2015
Okay, what do they say?
>Appearing on Good Morning America in 2008, Bob Woodruff hyped
Sorry, but how is this "failed prediction by science"?
>Robert Warren Woodruff is an American television journalist. Since 1996, he has served as a reporter for ABC News.

>>14763370
>>14763244
>26. 2013: Arctic Ice-Free by 2015 (additional link)
What did they say?
>Given present trends in extent and thickness, the ice in September will be gone in a very short while, perhaps by 2015.
AEI doesn't know the word "perhaps" apparently. Let's look at the data behind this statement. This interview was conducted in July 2013, so the data of the minima looked like picrel. There was a trend of about -2 million km^2 within 4 years that looks like it's accelerating. They already hit 3.5e6 km^2 in 2012. So give it another 3 years and some bad luck and it actually doesn't sound like such a stupid worst-case estimate, if one keeps the word "perhaps". Now we know that 2012 was somewhat of an outlier, but the trend still doesn't look good.

>>14763356
You do believe that, though.
What you're upset about is that I phrase it plainly, because you're stupid.

>>14763368
Nope, we are deregulated.
My doorbell has been rung several times each year by solar installers walking the neighborhood.

>>14763410
Sounds like the answer is (c) then.

>>14763399
Let's look at the most recent data though, so up until 2021 (the minimum is in September or October, so we don't know yet for 2022).
Picrel shows September, just like the previous one.
>The downward linear trend in September sea ice extent over the satellite records is 81,200 square kilometers (31,400 square miles) per year
If the trend continues like a linear extrapolation, then you can either calculate it yourself, determine it geometrically or read in the paper when it hits 0.
I'll guide you through it, if you want though. Long-term (blue line) we're around 4.2-4.3 million km^2. Divide that by 81,200 and you get a number of almost exactly 5 years. So, based on the linear extrapolation, we can say that we expect it to reach 0 by 2026. But you see the fluctuations. By eye, I'd say it fluctuates up to +/- 1M km^2. How much time do we gain? Ok, best case 5.3e6/81,2000 is 6.5 years after 2021, so either 2027, or 2028. Worst case? Well, let's say we have an underfluctuation like 2012, and we get 3.3e6/81,200 = 4 years.

But ok, you and AEI mock the false predictions. What's your prediction? Will the arctic ever be ice free? If yes, when? If no, what would stop the trend that continues mercilessly?

>>14763401
Ok, that's just below kindergarten level now. "You believe that poop tastes like chocolate" - "No I don't" - "Yes you do"

Do you have anything to contribute to an adult discussion?

>>14761700
wilderness preservation is good
i don't understand the problem with this? i dream of a world without cars. maybe i can stay in my suburban town and raise kids without fear of them getting run over every time they want to walk 5 blocks to the convenience store. a combination of light-rail, trams, and bikes is preferable. people that live and work on rural farms are always going to have their own methods of transportation anyway.
does the world economic forum want you to stop consuming oil? i really don't understand why sustainability benefits anyone other than the people that live in towns that adopt these trends. solar companies are the new big oil? is that why the panels have become so much cheaper?
please inform me, or have you never actually taken an econ 101 class to realize how interdependent all this global finance is? that to intentionally undermine that would be to undermine the ability to be fantastically rich in the first place? just retarded

>>14761898
unironically, most of the 'billionaires' other than the top of the top of the top are just lap-dogs to investers or government spending.

>>14763444

>>14763458
>muh ebil billionaires wahh i have nothing else going on in my life to worry about but evil boogeymen

>>14763458
Is Klaus Schwab the new George Soros?

>>14763444
>i don't understand the problem with this?
When the wilderness is closed off and I can't take my kids camping anymore, the elite will naturally be exempt from those prohibitions.

>>14763482
Really? Where can "the elite" (who is this btw) camp and you can't due to environmental protection?

>>14763481
>new
George Soros is also a member of the WEF.

>>14759800
Why does Magic the Gathering think that?

>>14763483
Do you understand the difference between present and future tense?

>>14763490
I thought you were basing your predictions on the present. So there's no reason whatsoever to believe that """"the elites"""" can camp in the preservation areas?

I installed my own solar out of cheap used panels that cover 50% of my usage

>>14763493
Actually, all I need show is that elites have access to areas where non-elites are prohibited access, and then the particular case of camping follows from that general rule. But to anyone who is not so disingenuous as to deny the very concept of social elites, that concept practically self-evident. Hence you are not arguing in good faith and there's no need to continue this conversation.

>>14763520
>elites have access to areas where non-elites are prohibited access
You mean their homes or parties you're not invited to? Well, they don't have access to my daughter's birthday party, so her friends have access to areas """they""" don't.

>>14763551
You aren't arguing in good faith. There is no purpose to continuing this conversation.

>>14763568
>Help I am out of arguments for my delusion

>>14763568
The weird part about the cumguzzling faggot you're responding to is that he isn't one of the rich people who go around flaunting the breaking of their own rules, he's some impoverished cuckold playing defense for the boot actively stomping his face in.
https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/public-health/covid-hypocrisy-policymakers-breaking-their-own-rules/

>>14761616
Typical high autism post

>>14761705
>meat as a treat, for better health :)
Lmao I see a lot more diabetes in the future

>>14763587
>implying you didn't break those rules

>>14762221
>>14762324
>>14762345
>>14762366
>>14762387
>>14762392
>>14762429
>>14762441

>>14762490
what the fuck is FF
what the fuck is RE

>>14763626
This picture contains the entire history of vertebrates. So you're trying to tell us that it was warmer long before the first dinosaur walked on Earth (roughly around the peak in the middle)? Yeah, no shit. What's your point? Do you miss the Jurassic era?

>>14763632
fossil fuels and renewable energy

>>14763643
TY that is VMA, HaGD

>>14763574
Bait isn't a good-faith argument, either.

>>14763646
U2bro

>>14763622
I didn't make any mandates.

>>14763798
Seething because someone broke the same rules add up makes you a hypocrite.

>>14761828
>So build more batteries?
Who knew it was that easy? Let's make all poor people rich by giving them money while we're at it.

>>14761379
German always believed in mysticism.
From the pagan druids, to nazi occultism, to modern day greens
All the same shit

>>14763878
Yeah, they have a really high rate of people believing in homeopathy and natural healing and that vaccines give you autism and shit.

>>14763807
I'm sure you thought you were making some kind of "gotcha" here, I just want you to know that instead of investing in masks and hand sanitizer, I invested in an AR-15 and a few hundred rounds of ammunition for the sole purpose of killing you and anyone like you the second you attempt to pull another "JUST LE TWO WEEKS TO STOP LE SPREAD".

>>14763967
I'm so scared. Actually a mask would have protected you from Covid better than a gun, but I'm sure your character leads to natural social distancing, so that's fine too, I guess. I find it cute though that you think some masks and sanitizer cost as much as a rifle.

>>14763370
>When you're retarded to the core and failed at math and prediction so hard you literally cited a debunked institution (UNHCR) to prove your retarded as fuck point.

>>14763641
That you're a retarded as fuck cuckold who can't grasp the fact that we literally will live on despite some temperature rising.

>>14763807
Concession status: accepted

>>14760969
Yeah bro let's just get a city sized battery

>>14761379
Hmmm almost like they lost a war and were raped and bomb flattened and replaced

>>14763020
Those numbers are doctored BTW. The 1930s was hotter than today.

>>14759800

>>14759800
Why can't we coat Central Australia and the sahara with solar panels again? Besides cost it seems like taking useless land and making it productive.

>>14761322
>blaming this on zelensky
Germany was sucking Gazprom cock for years, and a ton of their government officials are literal Stasi/KGB groomed Ossi boomers. Germany has nobody but themselves to blame for the absolutely pants on head retarded shit they’ve done in regards to things like their nuclear program or how coincidental it is that Russia of all countries had them by the balls for gas as they also throw billions into coal.
>>14761379
The NSDAP, unironically. WW1 was already bad enough, but by the time of the 1930’s they had purges left and right both inside and out for the purpose of 110% party loyalty, which naturally never ends well for the people actually responsible for high level forward thinking. The scientists who didn’t bail before the war started and still managed to survive the end were all ferried off to either the US or USSR, Germany was split into two with radically different views and strict restrictions on movement via the Wall, and had to be rebuilt from the ground up from how flattened it became from bombings. Basically all the smart ones were either killed from two world wars decades within each other or ferried off across the planet, though frankly they were always autistic regardless.

>>14765204
>kill Jews
>those that are not killed, geller
>shit, most doctors were Jews
>what do
>give natural healers considerable rights
>fast forward 80 years
>Germans still take tissue salts, homeopathic sugar pills and Bach flower extracts

>>14761835
Who cares about "the environment", I just want solar power for prepping purposes.

>>14763481
Nope, George Soros focuses on social policy change using anarcho-syndicalism, Klaus Schuab focuses on the erosion of economic autonomy through government policy changes.

>>14760981
This is correct. Solar energy goes offline at night. The power grid is almost a free market where power plants sell their electricity. Solar is incetivized by the government so it gets priority on the transmission lines during the day. When its very cloudy outside the price per megawatt goes up significantly and natural gas/ etc... plants can then up charge for their megawatts. At night time solar doesn't generate power. The battery systems are way too expensive to store power over night.

>>14765319
>da joooooooooooooooooooooooooooooz

>>14765953
>Solar is incetivized by the government so it gets priority on the transmission lines during the day.
Sounds interesting, but I didn't find anything with the terms I googled. Do you know the technical name of this, so I can find out more? Namely because "the government" doesn't exist in the world, there are more than 193 governments in the world, not even counting make-believe states such as Donezk

>>14765961
Probably discussing USA or Germany. I know it's done in most localities in the US, and Germany has a similar program in place where they buy power at higher cost when renewables aren't running.

>>14765986
But what's that market mechanism called? I know very little about the energy market, so I don't even know where to start googling.

>all solar panels have batteries

Batteries are very expensive too.

>>14765993
It doesn't have a single universal name. It's just a supply and demand thing. When power is scarce more can be charged to turn on surge capacity.

>>14760965
solar panels aren't batteries, sure they're paired with batteries, but that's a big topic and problem to solve when it comes to them, the fact that they're this ignorant about it is a problem