/sci/ - Science & Math

Soience changes at the rythm of corrupt freemasons’ decisions

I would hope that their most pat answer would be something like "the new strain is less infectious/deadly/whatever" but they're totally allergic to being that forthcoming.

did you actually believe they'd continue this forever or something

>>14752579
>did you actually believe this straw man I made up?
But how has the science changed? Are they admitting that COVID was a nothing burger? That the vaccine is useless? Why change stance now?

>>14752687
the public health policy of amerimutts isn't "the science"

>>14752191
imagine being a vaxxie!! HJAHAHAHAHA

>>14752579
you sound like the kinda guy not up to date on your vaccination.

>2022
>not on your 2nd booster already

i hate antivaxxers so much.

>>14752704
So if "science" wasn't the justification for lock downs, job loss, and forced injections, what was the reason?

>>14752739
you schizos are actually the only ones telling me to get a trillion boosters

If you got vaccinated, don't listen to naysayers and watch this.
https://streamable.com/415q07
Everything will be ok.

Most of sci took the vaccine. Same part of sci has been dead quiet for the past months.

The people pushing untested pharma product should be held responsible.

>>14752742
You will take as many boosters as the science tells you to take. It's safe and effective.

>>14752829
literally nobody talks like this

The Biden administration is still fighting in court to force all federal employees and contractors to get the jab. The part of the pandemic where the government greatly expanded its power over the public has not ended.

>>14752848
And yet you will still take the boosters.

>>14752886
>The Biden administration is still fighting in court to force all federal employees and contractors to get the jab.
Good. They should be legally mandated choose between 10 doses or jailtime.

>>14752579
>did you actually believe they'd continue this forever or something
Elections coming up. Wait until December.

>>14752191
>What caused the science to change?
$$$

>>14752579
They used 9/11 as a free pass to do whatever they wanted for a decade or more because muh terrorism, but once everyone stopped caring they've been flailing for something new. Only with chink flu have they been able to create an atmosphere of panic and obedience comparable to post-9/11. If they *don't* keep covid going forever then be afraid of what they replace it with.

>>14753565

>>14752687
1. We know more about the virus now than we did in 2020. It wasn't as dangerous as was thought. A high number of asymptomatic cases meant that early models of the danger of the disease reflected incomplete information that skewed the data towards predictions of a more dangerous disease. This possibility showed up in the media and in scientific literature from April 2020, it's just that policy makers were more cautious.

2. Before "nothing burger" folks pat themselves on the back too much, the virus has also substantially changes since 2020. Later variants produce less severe illness and the initial COVID-19 strain and the first few variants are basically extinct, with more mild omnicron variants being more contagious and less dangerous.

3. Widespread vaccine adoption, especially among the elderly, who were always most at risk make the disease way less dangerous.

4. Policymakers have to juggle how willing the public is to take actions to reduce spread (a policy no one follows is worse than none at all because it corroded the habit of following advisories) and economic damage from those policies. Long term economic fallout and damage to education ended up being worse than was predicted.

5. The most at risk people died in large amounts and they can't die twice.

So a mix of things. Science always changes. You should look up what happened to physics with relativity, Kuhn, and paradigm shifts. It will blow your mind.

>>14752191
Wait until the election

>>14754035
It's also worth noting that the goalposts have moved on both side. Ioannidis' paper predicting almost no deaths was everywhere, a huge source for people who didn't like restrictions. It ironically followed his own theories by getting huge attention precisely because it was deeply flawed napkin math. The most intense folks moved from "lockdown until full vaccination," to "well it's only old people and 80,000 deaths a year isn't so bad if they're all sick and old anyhow. No lockdown people moved from "it will be less bad than flu," to "800,000 dead in less than two years is either fine or fake data."

It's almost like science isn't magic.

>>14754035
tldr conspiracy theorists were right once again

>>14752579
Kindve. Their minions didn't get a fuck when it was a blatant lie. Now that covid is proven to be a meme, has burnt through nearly, and no one cares, it seems to be a waste of time to try and correct the documentation to be more in line with what we already knew was true. It's like the cia 30 years later just blurting out they ovetthrew x government when no one cares, no one knew, or if they did no one was listening to them and just calling them conspiracy theorists

>>14752191
It was never about science. It was about finance, politics, social control, and virtue signaling.

>>14754035
>Science always changes
Basically this. I don't get why /pol/tards think this is some controversial thing. Science by nature isn't set in stone like religion is. It's literally a process which we use to understand the nature around us, and we're bound to make mistakes or take a while to understand something completely. It was never an absolute.

>>14754035
Cope. This shit was 100% bullshit from the start.
I remember watching videos in December 2019 of Chinese people literally laying dead in the streets. from """covid"""

>>14752191
Pfizer/Moderna bribe money ran dry

>>14752191
> A situation is evolving.
> Recommandations change to reflect the changes in the situation.

In what way is it weird ?

>>14754101
Is it possible that the strain which leaked from the lab was much deadlier and quickly attenuated thereafter?

>>14752687
Why do you think that "the science" has changed? The individual risk has changed with the variants. The risk for the health system has changed with the variants and immunity, be it from infection or vaccine. You antivaxxcattle are no longer a risk to society.

>>14752191
Ratings.

>he thinks his sc*ence isnt a whore that follows what powerful men tell her to do
Lmaooooo

>>14754022

>>14752191
Science hasn't changed but the utilitarian calculus has. Deaths are down to a tolerable level now.

>>14754096
>"The """SCIENCE""" is settled! Stop questioning it!"
>"""science""" inevitably fails
>"Duude, """SCIENCE""" is constantly changing!"
Like
mother
fucking
clockwork.

>>14754096
>It was never an absolute.
You are revolting. I don't think it was possible for a human being to be so shameless.

>>14752191
nobody trusts scientists. rightly so.

>>14754096
So am I supposed to trust the science, or question it? I don't understand.

>>14754432
You're mixing things around. Some science IS settled. Nobody is going to gain scientific information that the Earth is flat or that plate tectonics isn't real or some stupid shit. Those things are settled. Some science, especially medicine, are still learning but we're not going to suddenly find out vaccines are fake or some stupid shit like you idiots think.

>>14754444
>Some science IS settled
no.

>>14752191
the whole justification of the mentally retarded provax cult was that unvaccinated people are infecting more than vaccinated.
this was the science 2 weeks ago

>>14752191
>What caused the science to change?
Probably the virus changing.

>>14754035
>1. We know more about the virus
who is we? the virus was generated in a lab they knew everything about it
>2. We know more about the virus
the virus evolved to a weaker version each time
>3. elderly, who were always most at risk make the disease way less dangerous.
old people usually die
>4. economic damage from those policies
yes that's what happened
>was it necessary?
no
>am i stupid?
yes
>5. The most at risk people died in large amounts and they can't die twice.
so we should vaccinated young people and children because?
please explain pic rel

>>14754035
You keep referring back to 2020, and ignoring 2021 when we already knew a lot. Everything in OP's post will be tossed aside once we have another winter wave. Hell, Fauci was warning against how dangerous the BA.4 variant is just a few weeks ago, and now the CDC directly contradicted him. The recommendations are arbitrary.

>>14752191
>What caused the science to change?
George Floyd

>>14754350
covid deaths are down because testing is down.

>>14754096
It was treated like absolute fact, and people were imposing this vaccine on me and making other threats based off of incomplete data and media headlines. It's validating to see their foot slowly enter their mouth.

>>14754452
So it is unknown whether the earth is flat? There is no consensus?

>>14754540
>who is we?
Mankind
>the virus was generated in a lab
Wrong. There's a plethora of papers backing the wet market hypothesis by now.
>the virus evolved to a weaker version each time
1. no, delta was worse than its predecessor
2. the evolution is not linear. Omicron is not a descendant of whatever letter came before that.
>old people usually die
And medicine is trying to prevent that.
>so we should vaccinated young people and children because?
Today? We shouldn't. It should everyone's own choice. Back then? Yes. Fewer susceptible people means fewer infections overall.
>please explain pic rel
What part don't you understand? That's just some introductory text. Go read the rest, I haven't.

>>14752191
>What caused the science to change?
it didn't change
experts are being faggots and they are throwing their faggotry on science

>>14754781
>There's a plethora of papers backing the wet market hypothesis by now.
Bullshit. It's still only a hypothesis. We'll probably never know the answer, but an accidental lab release is just as plausible.

>>14754035
>>14754047
Pro-censorship normies are so inconsistent and hypocritical. Almost all of their argument boil down to either whataboutism, appeals to ignorance, name calling, straw-manning (lumping everyone in with groups like Qanon or white nationalism -- even other progressives and leftists who aren't woke enough), or the slippery slope fallacy (any alternative policies and perspectives are a priori excluded from consideration on the grounds that it could lead to white nationalism, racism, transphobia, conspiracy theories, etc.).

The idea that "science change" doesn't make sense as an argument coming from the pro-censorship types like yourselves, because this is exactly the argument that many people online, as well as many respected academics and journalists have been making for the last 3 years, and in fact, long before the pandemic began. Of course, pro-censorship normies can't except this fact, so they have to pretend like we're all crazy Qanon antivaxxers complaining about the New World Order Bill Gates microchip depopulation agenda. Of course, this is a complete strawman, and I've actually seen more woke liberals and cable news hosts talking about the Bill Gates microchip non-sense than anyone else.

Many people, myself included have been making exactly these points (and continue to do so), and instead of engaging in a good faith discussion, people like you just lumped everyone, including even scientists at schools like Stanford, MIT, Harvard, with far-right neonazi conspiracy theorists that think COVID vaccines are part of a "depopulation agenda".

In reality, many of these people were just arguing against things like censorship and some of the harsher lockdown policies, and advocating for more research on issues like drug re-purposing and investigating the Lab Leak Hypothesis, which was again literally described as a far-right racist conspiracy theory that was allegedly being promoted by muh Russians and muh neonazi white nationalist groups.

>>14754781
>Today? We shouldn't. It should everyone's own choice. Back then? Yes. Fewer susceptible people means fewer infections overall.
What changed between now and two weeks ago?

get your jew flu shots goyim and stfu

>>14754350
>>14754620
They aren't any better than last year.

>>14754837
It's not my job to explain this shit to you, and most of you antivaxxers are too stupid to actually understand the studies and the medical science in the first place. Anyway, all the information is available online. The point here isn't to argue with some low IQ right wing antivaxxer about the methodological and statistical details of COVID research. The point is that COVID started off as a very deadly disease, but it has become much less severe over the last 3 years. If you want the details you can go look them up yourself.

>>14754837
guidance from the CDC

>>14754837
You could ask this for every change. We know, you don't like change autisto, but that's just how it works. Why didn't they do it 5 minutes earlier? Why not 6? Why not 7?

>>14754858
Imagine typing this unironically. What scenario is it going to be better than just shutting up because you're wrong or heavens, changing your view.
>>14754866
You can and should ask for why for every change. We are reasonable right? So there should be reason and criteria behind guidance particularly when it is going to be used to enforce policy.

>>14754858
You're missing the point. As of two weeks ago, Fauci was stating that people who weren't boosted or double boosted would get into trouble with BA.5, which is around 60-70% of the U.S. population. He stated that we all needed to be vaccinated or the virus would continue to circulate and mutate (which goes against current evidence that vaccination is not preventing infection or spread, and he who is quadruple vaccinated and took two courses of Paxlovid should know this). Now, two weeks later, the CDC is saying we can don't need to take precautions if exposed, vaccinated or unvaccinated, masking isn't necessary, that we only need to isolate if we feel ill. How the hell do they decide to alter their messaging that much from the beginning of August to now?

>>14754858
HAHAHAHA Get a load of this seething faggot. I am gonna take a fat covid shit right on your bed like Amber Turd

>>14754873
>>14754877
>>14754878
>covid could possibly be bad
>harsh restrictions
>covid gets better over time
>lessen restrictions
they are not going to keep restrictions up forever, nobody cares anymore. time to move on.

>>14754781
>Wrong. There's a plethora of papers backing the wet market hypothesis by now.
So if it's "settled science" to use the popular vocabulary (it isn't), then can you actually point me to a single academic papers or scholarly source, making the claim that the Wet Market Hypothesis is settled science?

And if the topic is really "Settled science" according to your judgement (which I imagine is basically worthless, even by your own standards, since I doubt you have an MD or PhD), then how come very well respected and successful scientists and doctors continue to defend the Lab Leak Hypothesis? It seems to me that there are three possibilities:

(1) The Wet Market Hypothesis is actually not "settled science",

(2) The Wet Market Hypothesis is indeed settled science as you claim, and you're just smarter and better informed than literally all of the scientists and researchers who are still defending the Lab Leak "conspiracy theory", or

(3) The Wet Market Hypothesis is indeed settled science as you claim, and the scientists and doctors who are still defending the Lab Leak conspiracy theory are all just secretly working for Vladimir Putin's troll army that is working to spread disinformation and conspiracy theories in order to weaken the West.

I wonder which it could be??

>>14754898
>could possibly
So was it?

>>14754909
sure

>>14754908
>the virus was generated in a lab (settled science)
>There's a plethora of papers backing the wet market hypothesis (contrary evidence)
>So if it's "settled science"
lmao. why don't you cite some papers that say the lab theory is settled science.

>>14754035
>>14754047
>>14754096
>we were wrong to lock people down, take away jobs, threaten people with non-stop fear, and force untested vaccinations
>but thats in the past, the science has changed, we know better now
>please keep believing whatever we tell you and dont hold us accountable for mistakes or stealing money, we were only following the science!

>>14754908
>point me to a single academic papers or scholarly source, making the claim that the Wet Market Hypothesis is settled science
That would be unprofessional vocabulary. There are strong indications for the wet market hypothesis though.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337
>As with other coronaviruses, SARS-CoV-2 emergence likely resulted from multiple zoonotic events.
https://www.nature com / articles/d41586- 022-00584-8
>other evidence has come to light that supports a zoonotic origin story similar to that of HIV, Zika virus, Ebola virus and multiple influenza viruses, he says. “When you look at all of the evidence, it is clear that this started at the market.” Separate lines of analysis point to it, he says, and it’s extremely improbable that two distinct lineages of SARS-CoV-2 could have been derived from a laboratory and then coincidentally ended up at the market.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715
The title is even "The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic"

>how come very well respected and successful scientists and doctors continue to defend the Lab Leak Hypothesis?
Literally who? Do their explanations incorporate the publications I linked? I doubt it.

>>14754937
this. we need to enact revenge by spamming 4chan.

>>14754937
>we were wrong
No one said that. It's wrong to do it much longer when the whole population had access to the vaccine and the ICUs are not at risk of being overcrowded anymore. It was right when there was a threat to the healthcare system and when people would have infected people who hadn't had access to the vaccine.
>the science has changed, we know better now
It's not just that we know better, the situation is completely different. This is why people call you poltards Putin's trolls. There's no way someone cannot see the situation this summer and say that it's equal to last fall or any time before that.

>>14754836
Anon, there's no convincing them. They'll continue to make up strawmen in their head to justify their attacks. These guys are called Branch Covidians not just as an insult, but as an honest truth. Covid doomerism has at a basis become a cult, if not a near-organized religion. It's also playing a part in identity politics based off of vaccination status.

Regardless, I won't forgive these gaslighting pieces of shit, even if those responsible believe they found retribution after being deservedly strung up by angry mobs. The one good thing to come out of this fiasco is that all of the pandemic brought the psychopathic control freaks out of the woodwork.

>>14754946
That'll show Fauci and his cronies. I bet when they can't browse /sci/ in peace anymore they will never deceive the public again.

>>14754962
>Covid doomerism has at a basis become a cult,
Point to those cultists. No one here thinks that it's a bad decision to let the antivaxxcattle out in summer 2022.

>>14754960
>they were ;iterally wrong and everyone can see it even if they dont directly admit it
>dont hold them accountable for ruining lives and killing people, just keep following orders or else youre a conspiracy nazi bigot!
Youre actually insane.

>>14754934
>lmao. why don't you cite some papers that say the lab theory is settled science.
I'm not claiming that the lab leak is settled science, so I don't need to do that. If you claim, however, that the Wet Market Hypothesis is settled science, then you should be able to support this claim with scholarly, scientific sources. The only claim I am making (and I am objectively correct), is that there is still an open debate on the matter, and that's not speculation or my opinion, that's simply a description of the available academic literature on the topic at the moment. There are currently scholars defending both the lab leak and the wet market hypothesis.

>>14754945
This response was much more intellectually honest.

>>14754982
>the virus was generated in a lab
vs
>There's a plethora of papers backing the wet market hypothesis by now.
your claim seems much more "science settled" than the other anons.

>>14754126
>WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!! YOU MUST OBEY EVERYTHING WE SAY OR ELSE!!!!
>3 years later: oh lol guess we were wrong, the science changed, no refunds!

>>14754898
>"BA.5 is a terrible variant that will be trouble to the unboosted"
>"Nevermind!"
We're not talking about a change over the course of years, they changed their opinion in a matter of weeks over a variant that is currently circulating. There's been no "science" to inform that opinion in those couple of weeks.

>>14754991
>we should place some temporary restrictions to save some lives
>EVERY VAXXER IS GOING TO DIE IN 2 WEEKS

>>14754998
like every country in the world has been relaxing restrictions for ages now.

>>14754973
>Point to those cultists
>antivaxxcattle
You are the cultist. Trust the science, Trust Faucci. Obtain the holy booster.

>>14755006
We're talking specifically about the CDC and Fauci, not every other country. This wasn't a gradual shift as the "science" changed, this was an abrupt left turn about an opinion of the current variant in circulation. I'm only calling into question that this change in position is because of what's been learned in the past few years, when in fact the CDC and Fauci were holding firm as of two weeks ago specifically in regards to BA.5. Did BA.5 go from dangerous to mild in the past two weeks, or was their a surge in booster uptake? Look, if you want to make the argument that some other governments have changed their stance over time due to new knowledge, then fine, but that's obviously not the case when it comes to the CDC and Fauci. I suspect it's more of a political motive and we'll return to the status quo (aka covid is dangerous, mask up and vaccinate, etc.) when the time is right.

>>14755001
>temporary restrictions
2 years temporary? We had to pry it out of their power mad hands.
>save lives
It didnt, there is no evidence that lockdowns saved lives
Youre just a lying piece of shit

Why are there so many people defending liars like Faucci? And all the money pharma took for a vaccine we know barely works, if at all? How come we cant hold politicians accountable for ruining people lives and killing millions with bad policy? Why do people defend these monsters?

>>14755022
they probably hoped for booster uptake. it probably didn't work as nobody cares anymore

>>14755031
>Why are there so many people defending liars like Faucci?
Because they still believe him.

>>14755031
>How come we cant hold politicians accountable
you have no power

>>14754990
>your claim seems much more "science settled" than the other anons.

And a plethora of papers and scholars backing the Lab Leak. Furthermore, you're completely ignoring the fact that we will likely never have in-depth, reliable information on the matter because in the early stages of the pandemic when we actually had a chances to get good, first hand data directly from the lab, instead of seizing the opportunity, all of the pro-censorship neoliberal centrists like yourself were claiming, without evidence, that the lab leak hypothesis was a racist conspiracy theory being pushed by the russian government. The entire topic has not been treated in an unbiased, neutral, and scientific manner from the beginning. The issue has been politicized from the beginning, and largely by people like Peter Daszak who literally worked for both the WHO and EcoHealth alliance, which was the NIH-funded company that oversaw much of the coronavirus research that was taking place at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Even if you legitimately believe that there is overwhelming evidence in favor of the Wet Market hypothesis, you should still have the intellectual honesty to recognize that (1) there was no reason to describe the Lab Leak hypothesis as a "conspiracy theory" or to associate with Putin, Russia, white nationalism, foreign disinformation campaigns, racism, or any of the other intentionally polarizing topics that it has been connected to by the mainstream media and normies, and (2) that by doing so, they framed the issue in a biased manner, which is not what you want when trying to analyze things in a neutral, factual, scientific manner.

>>14755024
>We had to pry it out of their power mad hands.
by spamming 4chan?

>>14755040
Just go hug a Chinese bro :)

>>14755044
Through political activism and media they tried to censor and call anti-vax conspiracies. Stop being a disingenuous piece of shit.

>>14755044
You might be trying to be snarky about 4chan spam but you're at least complacent in the censorship across all mainstream discourse that drove it to the fringes. And to top it off, the fringe was correct.

>>14755040
>the virus was generated in a lab
i didn't make this up, it was posted here: >>14754540
about as settled science as it gets, and then you proceeded to accuse the other anon of it even though he said there was contrary evidence.

>>14755040
>Furthermore, you're completely ignoring the fact that we will likely never have in-depth, reliable information on the matter because in the early stages of the pandemic when we actually had a chances to get good, first hand data directly from the lab
Even under different circumstances, there's no way China would have allowed that. They scrubbed all evidence from the wet market and blocked access to the lab for more than a year, and then only gave limited access. Meanwhile they blocked travel into Wuhan when they were aware of what was happening, while still encouraging its citizens to travel overseas. The entire thing was a cluster fuck from every angle. It may have been pride, or ineptitude, or ignorance, but countries around the world almost seemed to act in a way that ensured things would spin out of control.

>>14755049
>Through political activism and media
no, the economic and social costs exceeded the health costs. your malone podcast that no one watched didn't have an effect.

>>14755066
>millions of angry people doing various things didn't influence us!!!!
>The science just changed!
>No refunds, and you can't hold us accountable! Just following science! :)
le sigh, when has that pathetic excuse EVER worked? (hint never)

>>14755024
>2 years temporary?
No restrictions lasted longer than a few months. That's why we had our "seventh lockdown" (none of which were an actual lockdown). Also, the restrictions were like "get tested before you go clubbing"

>>14752191
It is the will of science of course! Don't question it!

>>14754781
>Wrong. There's a plethora of papers backing the wet market hypothesis by now.
for much less, people underwent rigorous interrogation and a polygraph test, the accusations against Fauci are well founded i don't see why he should be exceptional
>delta was worse than its predecessor
source my ass
>the evolution is not linear
give me an example of 3 viruses that answer this claim
>And medicine is trying to prevent that.
by endanger young people with nonstandard vaccine?
>Today? We shouldn't. It should everyone's own choice. Back then? Yes.
>Fewer susceptible people means fewer infections overall.
you use the infection value as if it has any meaning, a fraction of a percent of those infected end up in hospital, and a fraction of that died, and a fraction of those who died, died from covid.
>What part don't you understand?
i dont understand how people like you can openly support obvious propaganda and public manipulation, denial of human rights and child abuse, you guys deserve to be hanged by law

>>14755212
>No restrictions lasted longer than a few months.
>none of which were an actual lockdown
>the restrictions were like "get tested before you go clubbing"
>If each restriction was only a few months, then each one was temporary!!!
>Also they weren't really restrictions!!!
Despite being obviously false, this is some next level mental gymnastics and gaslighting. Youre literally just an evil liar. What do you gain from lying so blatantly?

>>14755227
The government of Canada has a publicly disclosed funding program to reduce vaccine hesitancy. What other programs might the governments of the world be funding. Perhaps social media influencing. That's just a conspiracy theory. There's no way governments would ever try to control narratives. The government always wants the best for us. they are staffed by the best people and we must listen to them. We need to have trust in our government officials. We need to comply without questioning.

>>14752191
>What caused the science to change?
THE SHIFTING IN TIME
no seriously people just stop to believe this ridiculous shit.
finally
https://www.wsj.com/articles/most-parents-are-saying-no-to-covid-19-vaccines-for-toddlers-11659887903

>>14755227
>Despite being obviously false
If you're Chinese, I guess that's not what you experienced.

>>14755035
>lying to coerce others to take experimental drugs
Ah Fauci, killing beagles by any other name is still just science.

>>14755389
>get the vaccine or youre fired
>get the vaccine or you can't see your family
>get the vaccine OR ELSE!!!
>Just get a test within the last 72 hours! Even though all tests are booked and it takes 24-48 hours to get results! :)
Lying will not save you.

>>14752740
This is the important question

>>14752687
because now they have no reason to convince the cattle to do something, normies have moved on.

>>14754035
>Before "nothing burger" folks pat themselves on the back too much

You're starting to get there. You are so close to admitting the people you called crazy were right all along.

>>14754096
you fucking retard people pushing against the vaccine, lockdowns and other restrictions were SKEPTICAL specfically because there was no settled science on the matter, just the rambling of """"experts""""" and """"politicians""""" telling you stupid shit

>>14754856

But...But.... The vaccines. They were safe and effective....

>>14755031
because they believed it and now take it personally. its proven to be ineffective enough to need three boosters with more on the way while they cover up health problems caused by it because modern investigative journalism is dead.

>>14755521
>because they believed it and now take it personally.

This is how it works. It is a sickness of the ego. Any opinion becomes an aspect of their personality, therefore for it to be wrong invalidates their being. You can see the Trans ideology taking this to an extreme bent.

>>14754035
>the virus has also substantially changes since 2020.
As could have been predicted. A virus that leaves you bedridden or kills you cant spread effectively. Thus, the evolutionary tendency is to greater infectiousness and lesser virulence. "Vaccinating" against a fast-mutating respiratory coronavirus with an an animal resorvior is a fools errand. The serial genetic material injections were a solution looking for a problem. The strategy should have been
>emphasis on therapeutics and early treatment
>isolation of elderly and comorbid
>let it become endemic (which it has)
>no lockdowns, no masks
>no fearmongering
Many people who were saying this from the start were silenced by the media, social media and health authorites (who did far more harm than good).

>>14754771
No but shutting down conversation in opposition of the consensus is not scientific or useful, especially when the (((science))) is as unclear as public health policies

>>14755499
Maybe in a couple of years he'll get to the "ok, they were right but only by accident" phase.

>>14752740
>So if "science" wasn't the justification for lock downs, job loss, and forced injections, what was the reason?
Stealing elections, both Federal and State, and in several countries.

>>14754934
>lmao. why don't you cite some papers that say the lab theory is settled science.
Straight from the creators. See attached documents.

>>14754858
>The point is that COVID started off as a very deadly disease, but it has become much less severe over the last 3 years.
KEK!!!!!
It went from the sniffles....... to a sniffle?

>>14754781
>>who is we?
>Mankind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW8Td-d5p0M

>>14752191
The hype cloud, complete with "case meters" and death counts and histronic over-reaction have had more than the incalculable mental, emotional and economic costs to men, women and families. The public opinion of health "authorities" and physicians has dropped to the floor.

>>14755562
>The public opinion of ALL "authorities" and physicians has dropped to the floor.
FIFY
Anarchy is better than what has happened the last two years.

>>14755562
>>14755567
Imagine we defund the police, arrest wall street, fire politicians, restore the second amendment, and put homeless and LGTBQ into asylums?? Imagine.

>>14755569
>Imagine we defund the police, arrest wall street, fire politicians, restore the second amendment, and put homeless and LGTBQ into asylums?? Imagine.
That sounds like a Great Reset that Americans would actually support!

>>14755562
>Has dropped to the floor
Lol

Lmao even.

>>14755538
>As could have been predicted.

As was predicted from the start*

>>14755600
>As was predicted from the start*
All part of the plan, from the start. Had to make is last long enough to steal elections and gain more government power, and China needed to rid itself of millions of Uighurs and dissidents.

>>14755506
per capita that's absolutely nothing

>>14755569
Would be based as fuck

>>14755621
Now compare it to rate of effectiveness and side effects of real approved vaccines.

>>14755617
how nice of the entire world to play along for the sake of amerishart politics

>>14754990
>>There's a plethora of papers backing the wet market hypothesis
those are papers based solely on theory, nevertheless there are proven documents that clearly show fauci involvement in this project.
there is more weight to this claim, despite your attempts to scoff on it

>>14755637
>MUH STRAW MAN!
>It can't be that all politicians round the world took advantage to gain power in their own countries??? THAT NEVER HAPPENS OK! THEY TRUSTED SCIENCE!!

>>14755212
>Also, the restrictions were like "get tested before you go clubbing"

Where I live, and in many other western nations outside of the US/Canada it was literally illegal to leave your house for non-essential purposes, and you could even be arrested and criminally charged if you violated lockdowns.

>>14755637
>how nice of the entire world to play along for the sake of amerishart politics
Only the USA/Canada/Mexico and Western European countries and Australia and China played along.

THOSE were the target countries.

Rest of the world said, "Fuck all that noise, we ignoring it." and nobody cared, since it was never about a cold-virus.

>>14755629
>Would be based as fuck
Would be how America was in the beginning,but with modern tech and air condition. Paradise.

>>14755647
>Rest of the world said, "Fuck all that noise, we ignoring it."
Romania did that, they ended up having the highest mortality of all Europe.

>>14755617
>>14755647
>>14755637
How is it that bootlickers and science cultists never actually argue your points? They always make up a wild conspiracy and then claim it was your idea (so it was mysterious deep elites?? youre crazy!!), or they pretend like they aren't doing something they are literally doing (lock downs and forced vaccination)?

>>14755652
>according to EU Scientists
How convenient...

>>14755652
>hey ended up having the highest mortality of all Europe.
cool story brah
fake news, but still cool story

>>14755652
>ended up having the highest mortality of all Europe
yeh i remember, it went on like this for two weeks

>>14752754
>Most of sci took the vaccine. Same part of sci has been dead quiet for the past months.
Sci/ did noticed a major drop in regular posters around mid to late 2021.

>>14752754

>The people pushing untested pharma product should be held responsible.

Too bad all the vaccine manufacturers demanded legal immunity for their product as a condition of suppliership. But why would they need to do that if the vaccine was safe and effective?

>>14755796
Since when has paper stopped angry mobs?

>>14752754
>Most of sci took the vaccine
I refuse to believe /sci/ is that retarded.

>>14752191

They may just guide you off a cliff.

They weren't kidding about a Great Reset.

>TL;DR: The spike protein from COVID-19 and the injections cause auto-immune disease. Everyone has AIDS.

>"On Tuesday, a real zinger was dropped onto the medRxiv preprint server that could potentially explain many of the commonly observed pathogenic features of SARS-CoV-2. The authors provide solid evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein activates the envelope (ENV) protein encoded by HERV-W in blood cells, which is in turn directly responsible for many pathological features of the disease."

>https://phys.org/news/2022-01-sars-cov-spike-protein-human-endogenous.html

>https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.18.21266111v2

>https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00134-1/fulltext

>http://www.geneuro.com/en/COVID-19/copy-of-herv-in-covid-19

>https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/358982609/#358982609

>https://youtu.be/jtlWCux2dJg

>https://youtu.be/Prhi3_Nvt3U

>https://youtu.be/lV81IUQS9w0

>>14755915
wouldn't this mean that anyone infected would also have aids as well? its also been said its not going away.

>>14755748
I'm not implying they're dead - they've just quieted down about it, now that almost everything that was considered "anti-vaxx misinformation" is now proven.

>>14755817
It is, there was a census thread. /sci/ is that retarded.

>>14755796
We all know the answer to that. It isn't safe, and they knew.

>>14755920

Correct. Both infected and injected seem to be susceptible to this mechanism.

>>14755817
>I refuse to believe /sci/ is that retarded.
you're on fucking /sci/ how new are you?

>>14755817
90% of adults in the US got at least one injection. While /sci/ is not representative of the population as a whole, it's not difficult to believe that at least 50% of the posters here went with what 90% of the general public did.
For other countries, most of the western world and Asia have rates similar to the US but with more children injected. Most of the uninjected in the US are children, which is why the national percentage is around 79% but for adults is 90%.

>>14752191
>science changed
Dumbass chuds. The safe and effective vaccines have proven that covid can be left behind. Those who took the vaccine don't have to worry anymore about the virus, and chuds who didn't can just get fucked at this point.

>>14756145
lol retard
Biden took 4 jabs and went on two paxlovid treatments and is still testing positive

>Students can stay in class after being exposed to the virus.
...still better than the alternative with concentration camps, forced lock downs, mandatory useless masks and dangerous injections.

>>14754035
>reddit: the post

>>14754937
/thread
>>14754960
>poltards
You have to go back.
>>>/plebbit/

>>14752191
"the science" never changed, only the narrative did.

>>14752754
>Same part of sci has been dead quiet for the past months.
You mean the tourists who moved on once they realised that there's probably no mass extinction event going to happen?

>>14754198
>risk for the health system
Remember the disused hospital ships and empty field hospital early on in the "pandemic"?

>>14755652
>cum hoc, ergo propter hoc
Sweden did that as well. We didnt even need masks in hospital.

>>14755538
>Many people who were saying this from the start were silenced by the media, social media and health authorites (who did far more harm than good).
This covid ordeal blackpilled me extremely hard on just how insanely incompetent and malicious our politicians and leaders are

>>14752191

The best part is that terminally online coofoids on twitter are now the "conspiracy theorists", literally saying they don't "trust the science".

>>14756310
No, I mean the regulars who took the vaccine because it was "safe and effective".

>>14756454
No. But I live in a landlocked country, we don't have ships.

>>14756175
>concentration camps,
Not real.
> forced lock downs,
Tautology
> mandatory useless masks
Source that they're useless?
> and dangerous injections.
Source that they're dangerous (in comparison to the virus itself)?

>>14756504
>>concentration camps
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59486285
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f5ZzCaOarA
>Source that they're useless?
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/cloth-masks-are-useless-against-covid-19-redux-omicron-version
>Source that they're dangerous
>in comparison to the virus itself
this argument is fundamentally retarded, there is enough information gathered to determine that young people and children are not at risk of covid, not long covid and not any variant that we saw so far, and experts knew this 2 years ago.
so according to your twisted logic it can be argued that healthy people must undergo chemotherapy because the cancer is more harmful

>>14756504
Cope vaxxie

>>14754836
now you see how this world really works. you are drowning in a sea of morons. sadly this the state of affairs in this world and why people like me tried to warn you all, because once they get spooked, for any reason, they are as herd of retards that will tear down anything and everything. They arent smart enough to understand why we are innocent until proven guilty or what the constitution means. So if you have a triple digit IQ you have to be the adult, you have to always be vigilant against mouth breathers always trying to destroy everything wise people built.

The controllers know all of this and know all they have to do is spook the retards to take anything and everything they want from you. The mouth breathers will never even notice it is gone or know that it ever existed, they will continue grazing as the cattle they are. This is how fragile your freedom and future is and why the founding fathers warned you to never let your guard down, because you will lose it all in an instant.

>>14756504
>Source that they're useless?
The writing on the box they come in?

>>14756884
I have never seen such a box, do you have a picture?

>>14756554
>cloth masks
Well, duh. Cloth condoms are useless, that doesn't mean that condoms don't work.

>>14756914
How is that argument relevant? Cloth masks were considered acceptable for legal requirements in much of the world despite them being pretty useless.

>>14756504
>Source that they're useless?
Faucci said it at the start of the "pandemic". Theres a FOIA request with an email where he says masks dont help. We knew masks dont stop viruses before the pandemic. It was all lies.

>>14757046
Yet another lie from big mask. They must be stopped.

>>14755621

It doesn't seem to indicate vast effectiveness.

It's also worth noting that any per capita difference is very easily explainable by S. Korea's lower obesity rate. Considering obesity is the #1 co-morbidity for COVID, and the per capita rates of COVID deaths roughly match the differences in obesity, it makes the vaccine look abysmal.

In any case, you're avoiding the fact that their worst outbreaks were after 80% of people had been given the vaccine. You're trying to avoid facing the fact you were lied to.

>>14754035
what a kike

>>14757317
>you're avoiding the fact that their worst outbreaks were after 80% of people had been given the vaccine
Just imagine how bad it would have been if not for the vaccines.

>>14757476

I don't have to imagine. The graphs clearly show how much better it was before the vaccines.

>>14757523
>The graphs clearly show how much better it was before the vaccines.
Could have been even better. If only we had vaccines back then.

>>14757523
What exactly is your schizotake here? I legitimately don't understand.

Just got my first symptom, starting to lose my sense of smell. I could barely taste what should have been a delicious chili dog.
What should I do?
So far my plan is to drink a lot of water, vitamin C, vitamin D, and 5mg melatonin at night for some heavy sleeping.
Is it worth taking ibuprofen to prevent inflammation?

>>14757533

I'm sure those vaccines would have been bringing people back from the dead then.

>>14757538
>I legitimately don't understand.

Well, at least you're able to admit it.

I suppose my take is that the vaccines ultimately weakened the immune response of a population that was never at risk to COVID. How can you say the vaccines ended the pandemic when there were virtually no deaths in the unvaccinated population, but then huge spikes after herd immunity should have been achieved?

>>14757623
>lose my sense of smell
vaccinated?

>>14757712
Never got any of the Covid inoculations.

WhAt is the next goal post for vaxxies?
Weve gone from "safe and effective" to "prevents sickness" to "prevents hospitalization" to "prevents death" to "more likely to survive" to "mild side effects" to "1 in 5000 myocarditis" and thats just what they are admitting to so far. At what point is it no longer safe or effective? Because we are long past that.
They (pharma, politicians, "scientists", media) need to be held accountable for stealing billions, destroying peoples lives, and killing people,

>>14757738
liar

>>14757709
>there were virtually no deaths in the unvaccinated population, but then huge spikes after herd immunity should have been achieved?
?

>>14757778
Yea, the biggest spike, that just happened to be the same time as mass "vaccinations"
Isnt that interesting?

>>14757808
no, it's before. very interesting indeed.

>>14757825
So when did the vaccine come out?

>>14757747
its for the better
if the dead werent vaxxed, they would be deader.

https://youtu.be/pJyhk20W64A

>>14757828
>A target to give all 15 million people in the top four priority groups their first dose by the middle of February 2021 was announced on 4 January 2021, and achieved on 14 February 2021. The next five groups were offered a vaccine by 15 April, and 32 million doses were administered by that point. In June 2021, all adults aged 18+ were able to get their first dose of a vaccine.
As you can see, the trend was already in before vaccine rollout, and the wave coincides with previous years wave.

>>14757845
So at the exact same time as vaccine rollouts? Glad we are on the same page.

>>14757747
Whatever your schizo mind makes of it.
>safe and effective
Meaningless without context. Safe compared to the alternative (unvaccinated and getting covid), that's still true. Effective is a different topic. It prevented 95% of infections with the ancestral type. What you define as goalposts is actually just the evolution of the virus coupled with a severe lack of understanding.
>"prevents death" to "more likely to survive"
Not even with the ancestral type, people claimed that it prevents every single death. Just the fact that immunocompromised people exist would make such a statement retarded. No one said that the vaccinated cannot die, except the little voice inside your head.
>"mild side effects" to "1 in 5000 myocarditis"
Myocarditis is mild most of the time. Which is why they didn't notice this until billions were vaccinated. Some very rare severe cases of myocarditis triggered studies looking into any myocarditis and they found one in 50,000 (not 5000, let's assume no ill intent on your side, but just a typo)
>At what point is it no longer safe or effective?
It's no longer effective at the point where it offers no statistically significant advantage whatsoever anymore. It's no longer safe if you're better off not taking it. Neither is the case today, contrary to disinformation that is echoed inside /pol/ and similar echo chambers.
>destroying peoples lives, and killing people,
How many exactly?

>>14757856
>literally quotes from Faucci, mainstream media, and politicians
>NOOO YOU ARE A SCHIZO!!!!!!!!
Ok.

>>14757856
>It prevented 95% of infections with the ancestral type
Do you mean varieties that no longer exist?

>>14757855
I'm afraid you're suffering from terminal cope, anon.

>>14755817
>I refuse to believe /sci/ is that retarded.
Retard here.
I got both Moderna shots pretty early on because I cook food for this woman in her 80s, and I know old people were actually at risk from getting real sick.
This was all before they started trying to make the clotshots mandatory, and forcing you to wave "vaxxpasses" everywhere.
Ever since they started pulling that shit, I have refused to carry a vaccine card anywhere, and have completely stopped giving any business to any establishment that had ever required them.

>>14757870
Yes. That doesn't make the statements of the past wrong. It doesn't mean "They lied to us!!!" Because it was true in summer 2020, but not in summer 2022.

>>14757890
>still defending obvious liars
Why tho?

>>14757887
Do you're not only telling us that you created the problems for yourself (you could have gone anywhere), but also that you're not a scientist, but a cook? Well we should surely listen to you.

>>14757895
How was it an obvious lie if it was objectively true when they said it?
>No man ever walked on the moon
t. some guy in 1900
He's an obvious liar!!!

>>14757896
This. I for one only believe /pol/ and 55 year old schizo women on twitter.

>>14757903
>How was it an obvious lie if it was objectively true when they said it?
Because it was never true, they made it up to sell drugs.

>>14757896
I'm an analytical chemist.
I am politely informing you that "took at least one dose of the clotshots" does not mean they're on your side, in fact, and are far more likely to kill you than pretend that any of this was ever done in good faith.

>>14757855
No. Here's the vaccine rollout.

>>14757909
So you are saying no vaccines were given in February? Are you really saying that?

>>14757855
>>14757909
And here is the number of deaths. Notice something? My fat fingers couldn't get the time scales to align better, but it's close enough.

>>14757917
No. I'm saying that only 13% of the population received their first dose in mid February. Also, im saying that by February, the number of deaths was falling.

>>14757918
>how can I create the most dishonest manipulative graph possible
>just ignore the other spike that happened before that people recovered from naturally, that way it looks like the vaccines did something!
>Don't look at a graph of similar illnesses like cold or flu! That might imply seasonality affects susceptibility to disease!
You'll have a great career in journalism.

>China, who leaked the virus, vaccinate against covid
>U.S, who funded the virus and who are enemies of China, vaccinate against covid
>allies of both vaccinate
>neutral countries vaccinate
how does /pol/ reconcile this?

>>14757917
Also, im saying that the group of the unvaccinated always had the highest rate of deaths.

>>14757918
>>14757909
That's not even remotely true.
There was absolutely zero correlation between vaccines and covid deaths.

>>14757927
Nice try shifting the goalposts. Let me cite a famous retard:
>Yea, the biggest spike, that just happened to be the same time as mass "vaccinations"
>Isnt that interesting?
>So at the exact same time as vaccine rollouts? Glad we are on the same page.

Obviously the spike was before the rollout. Your lengthy comment is pure cope. I never said that it wasn't due to seasonal effects. I never said anything about natural recovery or that the numbers decreased BECAUSE of the vaccine. I just refuted your point that the numbers spiked because of the vaccine, because that's just objectively false.

>>14757927
>there were virtually no deaths in the unvaccinated population, but then huge spikes after herd immunity should have been achieved?
>ignores the massive spike before vaccines were even made
>ignore the massive spike before vaccines started to rollout
>ignores the drop off when any sort of herd immunity was achieved
there goes your immunity theory kek

>>14757934
>That's not even remotely true
Are you claiming that my numbers are wrong?
>There was absolutely zero correlation between vaccines and covid deaths.
So... what >>14757808 said is wrong? :^)

>>14757947
>vaccines released in February
>largest spike in February
Why do you over complicate things? Oh right, because you defend liars. You're just making yourself look bad.

>>14757951
>Are you claiming that my numbers are wrong?
No, I'm impolitely informing your retarded ass that you both intentionally and maliciously completely made up your numbers.

>>14757952
Are you mentally impaired? Look at the numbers: >>14757918 >>14757930
They are in direct contradiction to what you're saying.

>>14757950
>herd immunity
>with 60% "vaccination"
How are you so stupid? And this is ignoring everything we know now, which is that the vaccines did nothing. We already KNOW for a FACT the vaccines are useless now, so pretending like they were magically useful at the start makes no fucking sense. You're just fucking lying.

>>14757955
>you both intentionally and maliciously completely made up your numbers.
Sorry to inform you, but you can look
At those numbers yourself: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/united-states#what-share-of-the-population-has-received-at-least-one-dose-of-the-covid-19-vaccine
Sources are stated as well. I didn't make up anything.

>>14757959
Correlation does not mean causation, bigot :)

>>14757960
>the vaccines did nothing
Please explain >>14757930 because it looks like you're wrong.

>>14757960
retarded or b8 at this point

>>14757967
The correlation of reality not being what you claim is caused by you being a lying piece of shit.

>>14757962
Your "data" is completely fabricated.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-toll/

>hardly anyone died before vaccines
>*posts graph*
>NOOO THAT DOESN'T COUNT
every time

>>14757975
They literally use the same sources, retard.

>>14757962
>ourworldindata
Nice Gates Foundation front, you disingenuous faggot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_World_in_Data#Funding_and_collaborations

Keep dying antivaxxcattle

>>14757968
>>14757970
>>14757974
>>14757979
WE ARENT IN 2021 ANYMORE RETARDS
ITS FUCKING 2022
We know the vaccine is not safe or effective anymore. You are COPING. The vaccine DID NOT HELP because it DIDNT DO ANYTHING. Your graphs are meaningless as best and lies at worst. It was literal snake oil. How long are you going to keep lying and pretending?

>>14757985
They list their sources. Show me which number they forged. Let's say the official number is a 7 and they list an 8. Really, anything. Any single number that's forged.

>>14757985
this. its all a grand plan to sell more copies of windows and xbox consoles

>>14757993
You can see that the actual numbers:
>>14757934
do not look like your faggot made up numbers
>>14757918

>>14757992
We were talking about 2021 and "the biggest spike that happened when the vaccine was rolled out", and this was proven a lie.
Do you sit in history class, autistically screeching "STOP TALKING ABOUT THE FRENCH REVOLUTION IT IS 2022 AND NOT 1789" or is this your final cope? Lie about something and then telling people to stop talking about the topic when they point out your lies?

>>14757989
You first. :-)

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4072489
>To examine the possible non-specific effects (NSEs) of the novel COVID-19 vaccines, we reviewed the randomised control trials (RCTs) of mRNA and adenovirus-vector COVID-19 vaccines reporting overall mortality, including COVID-19 deaths, accident deaths, cardiovascular deaths and other non-COVID-19 deaths. For overall mortality, with 74,193 participants and 61 deaths (mRNA:31; placebo:30), the relative risk (RR) for the two mRNA vaccines compared with placebo was 1.03 (95% CI=0.63-1.71). In the adenovirus-vector vaccines there were 122,164 participants and 46 deaths (vaccine:16; controls:30). The RR for adenovirus-vector vaccines versus placebo/control vaccine was 0.37 (0.19-0.70). The adenovirus-vector vaccines were associated with protection against COVID-19 deaths (RR=0.11 (0.02-0.87)) and non-accident, non-COVID-19 deaths (RR=0.38 (0.17-0.88)). The two types of vaccines differed significantly with respect to impact on overall mortality (p=0.030) as well as non-accident, non-COVID-19 deaths (p=0.046). The placebo controlled RCTs of COVID-19 vaccines were halted rapidly due to clear effects on COVID-19 infections. However, the data presented here argue for performing RCTs of mRNA and adeno-vectored vaccines head-to-head comparing long-term effects on overall mortality.

>>14757995
>heh this is actually a giant conspiracy for something totally unrelated!!! Stupid conspiracy theorists!!
Nobody but you said this. Does this type of shill tactic work? It just makes you look stupid.

>>14757992
they're not sending their best.

>>14758003
i'm not the one gates posting

>>14757998
>the unsourced excel spreadsheet looks different
wow

>>14757998
I'm talking about the United States. It makes little sense to look at global numbers to determine the deathly effect of the vaccine, given the unequal rollout.

>>14758001
What are you even saying???
We learned that the vaccine was NOT effective, thus, its IMPOSSIBLE that the vaccine caused a reduction in deaths, meaning that your graphs do not support the hypothesis that vaccines helped because we know that they didn't.
Vaccines didn't work, so theres no way your graphs can show the vaccine worked. Unless you are just a lying idiot.

>>14758005
You do know gates foundation funds "vaccines" around the world? It has nothing to do with computers or xbox. I have to be getting baited hard.

>>14758015
good for him

>>14758011
Stay on topic, you ADHD-ridden faggot. Some retard claimed that the biggest spike occurred just after the vaccine rollout. Nobody gives a shit about the year in the calendar when the vaccine rollout was in 2021. We can also talk about this in 2050 and it won't matter that it's 2050. If someone makes a claim about 2021, you have to look at the 2021 numbers to understand whether that person is making a valid point or if he's lying.

>>14758010
You were saying, you dumb faggot?

>>14757929
> how does /pol/ reconcile this?
Something something it's da jooooos

>>14758031
Do you have daily all-cause deaths?

>>14758011
China made the virus and is still vaccinating.

>>14758031
Turn off that stupid 3d average, will you? But also, the numbers are the same as >>14757918

>>14758039
Injecting people with random drugs is not "vaccination."

>>14758039
China's using an entirely different type of vaccine (complete inactivated virus), for what it's worth.

>>14758048
Now that's a new one.

>>14758048
Renaming everything according to your political agenda doesn't make you sound smart.

>>14758011
This guy's right.
We already know from Pfizer's own data that they tried to keep sealed for 75 years that their clotshot wasn't even effective against the original strain, and they knew it wasn't safe due to all the adverse heart problems.
It certainly isn't safe or effective a dozen strains later.
And looking at a state by state basis, there's absolutely zero correlation between clotshot rates and death rates, because it never worked in the first place.
>>14758045
The CNN interviews are two doors down, you retarded cumguzzling faggot.

>>14758057
>noooo fuck my sources are the exact same as his I'm just too stupid to read the x axis
>better deflect and insult, then I can still jerk myself off to sleep tonight

>>14758052
So what. It's not like you see /pol/ rushing to get it. China is even working on their own mRNA vaccine.

>>14758057
> there's absolutely zero correlation between clotshot rates and death rates
Which one is it now? Didn't you try to tell us that the biggest spike in deaths was accompanied by the rollout of the vaccine? So is it correlated or not?

>>14758053
>>14758054
Im sure you know whats in the China vaccine, right? Certainly its just public knowledge! The Chinese vaccine is definitely a safe an effective vaccine!!!

Do you hear that? That's the sound of the unvaccinated winning by having a 10 times higher death rate than the double-boosted.

>>14758061
If China wanted an mRNA vaccine, they would have one. It's been over two years. Point stands that lack of efficacy for one type of vaccine doesn't define efficacy for a different type of vaccine. They need to be judged independently.

>>14758063
>If the chart doesnt correlate the vaccine is effective, then theres no way the chart indicates the vaccines was ineffective!!

>>14758073
>The vaccine kills!!!
No, look
>See, there's absolutely no correlation just as I said!!!!!

>>14758067
Does it make sense to you that the virus, which has attenuated to a milder form, is supposedly killing the unvaccinated at an even higher rate than the more dangerous, prior variants? Is COVID-19 getting more dangerous, or are those numbers false? It has to be one or the other. And what really doesn't make sense is that nearly everyone has been infected at this point, so everyone should have some form of immunity, unvaccinated or not.

>>14758069
They are in clinical trials. Efficacy of mRNA is higher than chinkvac. China is still vaccinating, and /pol/ is not getting it. Why not? Is China in on it as well?

>>14758079
>supposedly killing the unvaccinated at an even higher rate than the more dangerous, prior variants?
What do you mean supposedly? The earlier variants killed 12 per 100,000 in a week >>14757930 and the new variant kills only 5, as shown here >>14758067
And that's just the total number, the numbers of infection are a lot higher now, so the actual mortality is even more reduced.

>>14758079
>It has to be one or the other
or perhaps it isn't killing people at a higher rate

>>14758078
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
The vaccine does not correlate with better outcomes because we learned now that it was not effective.
The vaccine came out in February and there was also a spike in February.
Therefore, the vaccines made it WORSE.
These are not mutually exclusive effects. Just because the vaccine isn't effective, doesn't mean it can't make things worse.
The charts show that the vaccine made outcomes WORSE when it was administered to early adapters (ie the most vulnerable to COVID).
The vaccine murdered people.

>>14758092
you are absolutely braindead

>>14758083
>Chinese clinical trials
LOL
LMAO

>>14758067
Now include deaths from the mystery cause that's killed 1.5 times as many people as "with covid" during the pandemic period. Wonder what that mystery vector can be as these excess deaths happening at 1.5 times the rate of "with covid" deaths.
Pic only partially related but is yet another data point you cannot explain.

>>14758092
>The vaccine does not correlate with better outcomes
Wrong. See
>>14757930
>>14757989
>>14758067
>because
I don't give a shit what your reason is, the point is simply wrong.

>>14758083
>They are in clinical trials.
And? If they wanted mRNA vaccines, they would have had them already. They're stalling.

>Efficacy of mRNA is higher than chinkvac.
Against current variants? Because efficacy of mRNA at this point is almost zero.

>China is still vaccinating
In that case, they're vaccinating with an inactivated vaccine that has antigens which are similar to current variants (including the nucleocapsid), compared to Western vaccines which are using the most mutagenic portion of the virus. I wonder which is better for training the immune system against current variants.

>>14758096
>Source: (UK Gov.) Office for National Statistics
How the fuck am I supposed to check the numbers and reproduce the graph like this? That's almost "source: Google"

>>14758098
>They're stalling.
For?
>Against current variants?
Yes.
>I wonder which is better for training the immune system against current variants.
Western.

>>14758090
>What do you mean supposedly? The earlier variants killed 12 per 100,000 in a week >>14757930 and the new variant kills only 5, as shown here >>14758067
Based on your graphs, the current CFR is the same now for the unvaccinated as in December of 2021.

>And that's just the total number, the numbers of infection are a lot higher now
Funny, because the only people I know getting infected are vaccinated (all of the unvaccinated I know were already infected once and that was it). So again, something is wrong with these stats.

>>14758097
You are fucking stupid. The vaccines CANNOT correlate with better outcomes because we KNOW NOW that it was NOT EFFECTIVE. Therefore, its IMPOSSIBLE that the charts show a correlation between vaccines and better outcomes.
What the chart shows is that it exacerbated deaths in the already vulnerable. The vaccine literally murdered people who were already weak to COVID.

>>14758096
Show covid deaths for the same groups and period please

>>14758107
>For?
Ask China, I don't know their reason, except there's obviously a reason they haven't updated to mRNA. They're manufacturing mRNA for other countries, so they clearly have the capability.

>Yes.
Going to need a source on that.

>Western.
So the vaccine that's designed against another virus essentially is better than the vaccine designed for parts of current variants? How does that make sense to you?

>>14758119
>because we KNOW NOW that it was NOT EFFECTIVE
But you just claim this in direct contradiction to data. You say the real-world data must be wrong because it contradicts your conviction. Did it ever occur to you that your conviction might be wrong?

>>14758116
>as in December of 2021.
When the wave was finished?

>>14758124
>conviction
Its not a conviction you fucking idiot. Its the fucking DATA. New studies on the effectiveness of the vaccine shows that its NOT EFFECTIVE. Therefore, it is impossible for it to be effective in 2021. Fuck off you lying piece of shit.

>>14758116
That's not the CFR. We have more cases today, so the CFR is lower than in December 2021.

>>14758142
>We have more cases today
Source? Or are you just assuming? Because actual known cases are far lower.

>>14758140
>Its the fucking DATA
But the data in this thread show the opposite. Show us your data and let's discuss them. Because one of us must be wrong if the same data contradict themselves.

>>14758146
Based on the CFR: >>14758142
>Because actual known cases are far lower.
I'd appreciate if you could post the graphs directly, that makes it easier to talk about such things. Like, why's the CFR lower.

>>14758121
Everyone under 50 has has less than 1% chance of dying from COVID.
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Age-Race-Ethnicity.aspx

>>14758151
That's not what was asked, mr. strawman.

>>14758148
Have you not looked at any actual case trackers?

>>14758123
>Neutralizing antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant BA.1 following homologous and heterologous CoronaVac or BNT162b2 vaccination
>Severe symptoms more likely in those who took Sinovac jab

> How does that make sense to you?
Its for the same virus.

>spam

>>14758147
They literally admit that the vaccines is barely 20-60% effective in HEALTHY YOUNG ADULTS (who have less than 1% of COVID fatality rate).
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/s0715-COVID-VE.html
>To evaluate effectiveness of 2, 3, and 4 doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) among adults
>vaccine effectiveness (VE) was 61% for two doses against COVID-19-associated hospitalizations
>vaccine effectiveness with two doses was 24% against COVID-19-associated hospitalizations
This is a complete walk back from the original "safe and effective". They were lying then, and now they are lying to cover their ass. And you are lying because you are an idiot.

>>14758157
Ah, 21, I read 20, sorry. But still, the actual cfr is lower, not higher as you interpreted.

>>14758083
>Efficacy of mRNA is higher than chinkvac.
I can't speak for the commievaxx, but the clotshots were a complete failure, and easily one of the top 10 medical disasters of all time.
Which, among all the completely indefensible things about it, the worst is probably everyone behind it going "THIS DANGEROUS THING THAT DIDN'T ACTUALLY WORK IS PROOF THAT MRNA VACCINES ARE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE, WE WILL NOW MAKE MNRA VACCINES FOR EVERYTHING".
If you're not already armed, I would highly suggest doing so for your own health, because they cleslry have no intention of correcting their course.

>>14758153
You're implying that a less than 1% death rate will somehow change the outcome.

>>14758165
>A third and fourth COVID-19 vaccine dose offered substantial protection among adults with healthy immune systems
And for oldies when covid was actually serious? Against the strain it was supposed to lessen?

>>14758165
>They literally admit
Data, not some unspecified pronouns. "They" is enough for /pol/, not /sci/. Who's "they"? Pfizer? The CDC? The WHO?
>that the vaccines is barely 20-60% effective in HEALTHY YOUNG ADULTS
You just said that it was not effective at all. Come on, man what the fuck is your problem? Are you high?

>>14758165
>When BA.1 was the predominant variant, vaccine effectiveness (VE) was 61% for two doses against COVID-19-associated hospitalizations; VE increased to between 85%–92% after receipt of a third/booster dose.
So... 85%-92% is "not effective at all"?

Mind you, we were talking about the early days of the vaccine, not BA.1 or BA.2, back then it was even higher.

>>14752191
>What caused the science to change?

damn vaxcattle suck bros

>>14758160
So mRNA causes sky high antibodies, but suffered a greater drop in binding potential. And we know antibody levels from mRNA drop like a rock after a few months compared to other styles of vaccines. Why are they not looking at results past two months?

>Its for the same virus.
Which has undergone greater mutation, the nucleocapsid, the RBD, or the S1?

>>14758173
>1% death rate
yes, that's quite high.

>>14758177
>Who is they????
>Literally link to CDC website
This HAS to be bait.


>>14758193
>THIS time they are telling the truth! Better get those boosters :)

>>14758171
>But still, the actual cfr is lower, not higher as you interpreted.
Based on what? You provided total CFR (unvaccinated and vaccinated). Are you suggesting the unvaccinated are getting infected at a higher rate right now? I don't see how that's possible unless they're immunocompromised.

>>14758212
LESS THAN 1%
How stupid is /sci/??? They literally cannot even read. And that includes people over 50. Its less than 0.1% for young adults. Literally just divide cases by deaths.

>>14758212
My country had more cases than population this winter (thanks to delta + omicron + dropping all restrictions). 1% would have been terrible. Imagine 880,000 dead people in New York within just 3 months. That's basically a daily D-day in just nyc alone.

>>14758225
>Everyone under 50 has has less than 1% chance of dying from COVID.
> Its less than 0.1% for young adults
still enough

>>14758216
>Are you suggesting the unvaccinated are getting infected at a higher rate right now?
Given that there's a very small immunity against infection I actually wouldn't be surprised, but no, I wasn't suggesting that. I honestly don't know, one probably would need to crunch the numbers. Especially since you brought up CFR, when they describe it themselves:
>The case fatality rate (CFR) is the ratio between
confirmed deaths and confirmed cases. The CFR can
be a poor measure of the mortality risk of the disease. We explain this in detail at
OurWorldInData.org/mortality-risk-covid

>>14758226
I think I'm off by an order of magnitude. Still, a D-day every 2 weeks.

>>14758160
Okay, I just looked at the paper, despite your quotes, they did not evaluate based on symptoms except for a small blurb later on. It was primarily based on serum binding, which is mostly useless. I don't even have detectable antibodies and I haven't been getting infected. They're ignoring IgA antibodies within the mucosa. But let's look at the quotes:

"Six individuals with travel-associated vaccine breakthrough
Omicron variant infection were also studied, three with mildly
symptomatic illness (cases B, D, E) and three with asymptomatic
infection (cases A, C, F). Five were males and 1 female, ranging
in age from 22 to 62 years, and were vaccinated with two doses
of BNT162b2 (n=4), mRNA-1273 (n=1) and CoronaVac (n=1)"

They basically have no real world evidence except for six breakthrough cases, which tells us nothing about the frequency of breakthroughs.

>>14758216
in >>14758116
you compared different periods

>>14758193
It isn't 92% effective, nor 85% effective.
It's 0% effective, except at causing heart failure.

>>14758241
>Given that there's a very small immunity against infection I actually wouldn't be surprised
You don't believe prior infection leads to a high level of immunity?

>>14758257
Cases are lower now than in December 2021, and rate of unvaccinated deaths is supposedly the same. How would that not lead to a higher CFR?

>>14758241
>>14758257
>>14758216
Yeah, I read through their CFR explanation and it sounds like it might simply be impossible to make sense of it. It's an underconstrained problem. The detection efficiency for cases and causes of deaths likely varies with time. If we assume that they test people who die with a respirator, the crude mortality rate sounds a lot more reliable than the CFR, but it's still not the IFR, as it doesn't take into account how many people even catch it.
After thinking about it for a few minutes and reading the explanations, I've come to the conclusion that the deduction in >>14758079 simply cannot be made with the data at hand.
>Is COVID-19 getting more dangerous, or are those numbers false? It has to be one or the other.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. The numbers are what they are. But you might have assumed more conclusiveness than the CFR has.

>>14758255
Feel free to get the chinkvac, anon.

>>14758258
So you posted a link with numbers just to say that they are all wrong and should be 0, a few minutes later? That's seriously some Mandlbaur level of schizoshit.

>>14758267
>It doesn't have to be one or the other. The numbers are what they are.
The problem is we're using those numbers to simultaneously say the variants are becoming milder, while saying the vaccines are providing protection, while saying the unvaccinated are dying at a higher rate. They can't say all of that. The data is clearly flawed.

>>14758268
I was infected in January, very mild, no issues since despite dealing with infected people, so I see no reason to get vaccinated. My antibody titers were zero, so I'm uneasy placing any value in them.

>>14758277
>say the variants are becoming milder
Did we actually say that BA.5 is milder than BA.1? I honestly don't know.

>>14758264
>>14758267
Perhaps the immunity theory was correct. Unaccinated now have aids.

could it just be testing? nobody cares anymore and so don't bother getting tested except if it is serious.

>>14758277
>>14758284
Quick Google, so don't quote me on that:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2022/07/13/more-danger-ahead-with-ba5-covid-19-reinfection-doubles-the-risk-for-death-blood-clots-and-lung-damage/?sh=7247ece33cec
>A recent preprint concludes that two or more Covid-19 reinfections double the risk for death, blood clots, and lung damage among other negative health outcomes, demonstrating the clear and present danger of reinfection.

>>14758285
I know you were shitposting, but there might actually be some truth to it. No idea, I don't trust preprints so much, I suppose, we'll have to wait until we know more.

>>14758289
Could be that the current case numbers are underreported. Here, we needed negative tests to go to restaurants etc in December, now we don't need anything. No wonder, the case numbers are so low. That would cause a high CFR, since the denominator is heavily underestimated.

>>14758294
Everyone will get reinfected at some point (I mean, this isn't going away), so that's a great way to make people depressed.

>>14758271
>all posts in this thread are actually 1 schizo talking to himself

>>14758311
I don't think that the effect on peoples depression upon reading a study had an impact on the study itself. But yeah, doesn't sound promising. Luckily I have yet to get it. Out of my family only my wife and my mother each got it once so far, so reinfecting might still take a while.

>>14758321
That would actually explain a lot.

>>14755652
>Romania did that
you are a very bad liar. in Romania at the height of the hystrics you needed to fill a formular at home and carry it with you if you went out, and it better aligned with both necessary reasons of leaving your house and the route you were stopped to check your formular. the military was called in to enforce this. source: my parents live in Romania.

>>14758340
According to my Romanian colleague, no one gave a fuck. But maybe that's a rural thing where it's not enforced.

>>14758326
I'm in a hot spot in the USA, we seem to be starting the reinfection rounds here. But all of the original infections were pre-Omicron. I'm reading plenty of stories about people getting reinfected within a few months, but I don't know anyone who falls into that category.

>>14755652
>the highest mortality
our leftists also crowed about this. it is as if they could not understand that the waves peaked at different times in different countries. you could find a time for any given country when mortality was highest in that country.

>>14758321
all me btw

>>14757856
>How many exactly?
go the whole hog while you are at it and ask about a complete list of names. after all, you did meet this standard with your redditposts.

>>14758344
>I'm reading plenty of stories about people getting reinfected within a few months, but I don't know anyone who falls into that category.
Quite a few of my colleagues got it in winter, and at least 3 or 4 got it now in summer again. Likely BA.1 and BA.5. But they all seem fine, vaccinated and boosted though.

>>14758369
I didn't get vaxed, never got sick.
All my co-workers got vaxxed. Got sick from the vax. Also got the booster and got sick from that. Then they all got COVID anyway.

>>14758366
Come on, are we talking about 6 or 6 million?

>>14758079
>nearly everyone has been infected at this point, so everyone should have some form of immunity, unvaccinated or not.
there was much screeching over this, culminating in "there's no natural immunity formed against COVID by being infected, only the vaccine can help you!!!"

>>14758374
>Got sick from the vax.
Sick sick or "had 38° one evening"? I got that for the second vax, after the first one I only had a sore muscle for a day. The booster did nothing, so I'm not sure if I got scammed

>>14758390
I 'member.
It was also right around when they pretended herd immunity wasn't a thing anymore.
Because it was only ever about selling clotshots.
Hell, Pfizer's still building more manufacturing facilties specifically for their covid clotshots, because they expected they would be able to shill them to governments until the sun burned out.

>>14758240

>>14758342
>no one gave a fuck
too many people did not give a fuck. but still, it is not true that Romania did not have lockdowns.

>>14758398
Usually it was a few days.

>>14758384
you said "exactly". that means something like 4,562,112 may be correct and 4,562,113 absolutely wrong.

>>14758418
So it was in the ballpark of 4.6 million?

>>14758440
I am a different poster. I don't even know what should be counted here. I just reflected on your greasy debate techniques.

>>14757778

You posted a country with nearly the same obesity rate as the USA.

I was talking about S. Korea. Of course, you must deflect from something you cannot explain.

>>14758473
>there were virtually no deaths in the unvaccinated population, but then huge spikes after herd immunity should have been achieved?
omicron

>>14758540
imagine having your new world order plans blown the fuck out by a variant of your own virus
lol
lmao

>>14758725
>imagine having your new world order plans blown the fuck out by a
how so?

>>14758736
Because it's ogre.
They had one shot, one opportunity, and now nobody is ever going to even pretend to comply with this shit ever again.

>>14758540
So you are admitting that using an outdated vaccine for a rapidly evolving respiratory illness was a bad idea from the start?

Finally something reasonable in this clown world.

>>14754035
Huge fat ass cope. Your science has gotten people killed. How do you plead?

>>14759186
It protected against deadly strains. Now we have omicron, which is a joke, and its all thanks to the vaccines.

>>14758391
I wear a mask in conservative spaces and no mask in liberal spaces.
It filters out a lot of people who would try to talk to you. It's great.

>>14759786
>vaccines created omnicron
Now THAT'S a cope

>>14759915
No, its the science. You're welcome.

>>14754035
>Later variants produce less severe illness
>And yet people are dying in droves in japan and Korea.

>>14754856
Also here there is an increase beyind what caused panic only a year ago, but now everything is "fine" for reasons unexplained.

>>14754858
>Anyway, all the information is available online.
Too bad it contradicts your claims. More people than ever are now becining ill and fatalities are about to reach a new record in Japan and Korea.

>>14760499
>>14760570
>>14760577
The worst is over, anons. Time to move on.

>>14759786
>It protected against deadly strains.
>>14760159

That is the exact opposite of how leaky vaccines work. By lessening the severity of deadly strains, they are more able to propagate and become stronger.

See: Marek's Disease.

Without any citation or data you are simply trying to deceive people. You do not belong here.

>>14760681
>That is the exact opposite of how leaky vaccines work.
And yet here we are. More pressure against deadly strains, and less against weak strains, has allowed the weak strain to dominate.
See: COVID-19

>>14760723
>More pressure against deadly strains, and less against weak strains

How did vaccines provide such a pressure?

That less deadly, more transmissible strains would dominate was predicted since before vaccines.

You just keep saying vaccines did it despite the fact that all evidence points to the opposite. Stop shilling here.


COVID19 was never any risk to the younger populace in the first place. Explain why college students were forced to get it, despite the fact the vaccines have a greater risk profile for them than covid.

>>14760595
Pfizer shills stole two years of my life, I'm never going to let that go until I get my payback.