/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14751377
You're a normie and you should stay away from drugs.

No, all they demonstrate is that if you fuck with your brain enough, it will start coming up with the weirdest shit. Nothing you see is based in reality however.

On the contrary. They further affirm the world is material. The brain has receptors and ligands to these receptors cause a response. It just so happens there are those that cause halliculinations and delusions. If you're stupid, you perceive these as real which explains your nonsensical brainlet reddit claims.

>>14751393
>>14751395
Cute.

>>14751395
>On the contrary. They further affirm the world is material.

>>14751377
>>14751396
>>14751401
>DUDE WEED LMAO

>>14751547
OP is a retard but you're an unconscious automaton.

>>14751547
Yes, even weed has spiritual properties and it is a legit entheogen.

>>14751598
NPCs hate spirituality.

>>14751377
They demonstrate the ability of your brain to shut off your reasoning capabilities and your connection to reality. Psychosis and even simple dreams do the same thing.

>>14751622
Why do you say mindless drone things? What motivates this behavior?

>>14751622
No, that's a very dumb and inexperienced take. Psychedelics, especially strong ones and in large doses, will take your mind into realms that shouldn't be possible, all your senses will be orders of magnitude amplified and every second of the experience you will experience something that you thought was completely impossible to experience. These substances make your entire life look like a little more than a joke, furthermore they make every single system of reasoning you ever encountered seem like toddlers playing with toys. Our science is extremely impressive, but only relatively. These are domains that will make the most raging atheist into a spiritual seeker overnight, they will make every scientist recognize the limits of their endeavor, and they will definitely show you there is more to life than simply waking up every day and living out your life on autopilot.

Those who deny the power of psychedelics are either naive, inexperienced, or foolish.

>>14751628
waah /sci/ validate my hippie worldview

>>14751644
cool Science & Math dude

>>14751646
What's motivating you to act like this?

>>14751648
Science is fueled by the desire to understand the universe. You cannot form a truthful picture of the universe while ignoring the most significant type of experience a human can have on this Earth.

>>14751657
le how dare you

>>14751598
Weed is a hedonistic loser drug that worsens cognitive performance, makes you an apathetic dullard. Watching Rick morty and eating cereal isn't spiritual.

>>14751668
No, I'm genuinely curious. Are there some conscious motives behind it or are you just acting something out mindlessly?

>>14751673
get a life hippie

>>14751644
The spiritual and metaphysical realms were categorically refuted by Marx and Engels (PBUT).

>>14751675
Hmm... No capacity for self-reflection?

>>14751670
You're confusing the substance with the user, a common mistake.

I was high every day of college and I came out in the top 1%.

Cannabis is merely an amplifier for who you already are. If you're a lazy slob watching R&M and eating cereal all day, then it will amplify that state of being. If you're a diligent student with a thirst for knowledge, it will amplify that state of being. In fact it has made all my studying into profound joy, rather than the forced misery that my peers experienced.

>>14751680
Lol. Take a high dose of psilocybin mushrooms and tell me again how there's no spiritual and metaphysical realms.

>>14751377
Just remember that you're a monkey and none of this has any inherent meaning

>>14751644
midwit psychedelic user: the post

>>14751766
In the meanwhile, you keep forgetting you're an NPC and that your opinions have no value.

>>14751377
There's definitely something there to be explored, but this isn't the place to advocate it. Most anons here are disenfranchised misanthropes, do you really expect them to have a modicum of spirituality about them?

>>14751863
If this normie nigger had a modicum of spirituality, he wouldn't bother starting this thread. It's not his spirituality coming through here but normie narcissism and delusion.

>>14751766
>tfw just horny for celestial's pheromones
Mystery solved.

DUDE........

>>14751390
>>14751393
>>14751395
>>14751547
>>14751766

Psychedelics makes morons into spiritualists. They made me into a reductive materialist. If that little piece of paper is all it takes to alter my sense of reality that severely, obviously it was the brain and its chemicals all along that were running the show.

>>14751377
>hallucinations are reality
peak NPC

>>14752834
>Psychedelics makes morons into spiritualists
yes

>>14751377
>Muh processes of cognition gets changed up
>"AAHHH NOTHING IS REAL"
Do retards like that have the same reaction when they look at some optical illusion? No shit our sensory inputs are processed, doesn't make them any less real, we operate on the basis of an ego, we have to work with abstractions of the physical world for it to be comprehensible, but an abstraction is not an illusion

>>14753846
They just dont remember dreams. If you can remember and control your dreams then everything makes sense.

>>14752834

>>14753777
Your entire life is a hallucination, but you seem to take that at face value no problem

>>14751628
>Why do you say mindless drone things? What motivates this behavior?
>>14751657
>What's motivating you to act like this?

Why do you call things you don't agree with "mindless drone things" ?
I was just explaining the effect of psychedelics on your brain using what science understand of it. There's nothing mindless or drone-like in that.
If you're OP, your original post already showed your disdain for science. You're free to believe that what you've experienced is more than non-pathological delusions and hallucinations but you're the one trying to force your beliefs on others while belittling them here.

>>14753926
You don't "trust the chemicals in your brain" when you use the scientific method. The results of an experiment isn't a subjective thing, you witness what reality itself showed you of its inner workings.

>>14751377
>>14751396
>>14751664
How gigacute, truly nawhdorable. Sure, alcohol, coffee, and nicotine are the bluepilled drugs, and psychedelics are the redpilled ones. But the real blackpill on the spiritual dimension of life are near-death experiences, for they literally and demonstrably convince everyone that there is an afterlife. This is by far the most compelling book on near-death experiences (NDEs) according to the actual experts in the field:

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Afterlife-Obviously-Exists-Realer-Than-Real/dp/1785359851/

It makes a huge deal about the fact that near-death experiencers (NDErs) are representative of the population as a whole, and that when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist

>"Statistics collected ... show that the "deeper" the NDE ... the greater the percentage of those who come away certain of the existence of the afterlife. Among those with the deepest experiences ... 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."

Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. And so would you, me, or anyone, including the most dogmatic atheists and skeptics, because it is VASTLY more self-evidently real than this puny little experience of life on Earth we have now. When you dream and wake up, you immediately realize that life is more real than your dream. When you have an NDE, the same thing is happening, but on a higher level, as you immediately realize that life is the deep, deep dream and the NDE world is the real world.

Not that NPC bluepillers will ever read the actual literature on NDEs though, that would ask of them to go against the grain and think for themselves. Which will never happen.

>>14753966
Nice post

>>14751377
>If only you knew how bizarre and incomprehensible existence really is
Psychedelics truly are problematic for materialist attempts to try to "figure out" the reality in which they experience. Users of psychedelics can encounter intelligent beings that seem to operate on a mind of their own. Visualization of vivid colors and incredibly intricate shapes even in a pitch dark room. There is no peripheral vision. Everything is sharp and in focus with no graininess or blurriness like how vision in this realm works. Strange "tropes" commonly experienced by users include mechanical turning gears, conveyor belts, Hindu, ancient Egyptian and Mesoamerica themes. Aliens, elves, jesters, surgeons and clowns. Would prehistoric humans that took psychedelics also experience these clowns and surgeons. What about gears despite being prior to the discovery of the wheel. What would a chimpanzee or gorilla experience. I think a lot of human development from religion to technology was influenced by these trips. Even if it's all in the head, it's still remarkable how imaginative and intellectually powerful the brain is that it can construct these trips and dreams. Then in waking life our creativity struggles. At the least, our understanding of the true potential of the brain is limited. It seems as though the question of: can a brain exist that is so advanced that it can't understand itself, has been answered.

>>14753959
>Why do you call things you don't agree with "mindless drone things" ?
I don't.

>I was just explaining the effect of psychedelics on your brain using what science understand of it.
No, you were just shitting out value judgments of your dronehive and presenting them as facts, as the drones in question tend to do.

>If you're OP
I'm not.

>your original post already showed your disdain for science
It didn't, but I can see why a drone would necessarily see it that way.

>>14754144
>Psychedelics truly are problematic for materialist attempts to try to "figure out" the reality in which they experience.
Psychedelics are problematic for pseudo-spiritual normies like you who become delusional.

>>14754153
Look at this one, how sure he is of things

>>14754168
> how sure he is of things
The thing in question being that you're a normie.

>>14754172
:D

>>14754177
Hallucinating shit doesn't prove anything beyond the same materialism you're trying to refute. You'd know if you ever progressed beyond getting hung up on the same tired old hallucinations that are part of pop culture now.

>>14754183
1. You're hallucinating reality right now
2. You've never experienced a breakthrough dose of a potent psychedelic

>>14754189
>soulless normie rhetoric

>>14751644
All it affirms is that life itself is only a passing illusion, given rise to by your subjective experiences, but there is still a very clear distinction between the psychedelic realm and reality, in the end it's just a funny effect in front of your eyes, whatever meaning you derive from it is completely subjective.

>>14751377
Using psychedelics is the equivalent of throwing water on your computer's motherboard while it's on and accepting the results of output as true. In other words, it's retarded.

These threads are by far the worst. Nothing shows as clearly that both the "spiritual" and the "scientific" crowds consist of literal NPCs with preprogrammed dialogue trees and completely standardized talking points.

>>14754207
That's what everyone thinks until they try it

>>14754228
>That's what everyone thinks
Confirmed normie.

Toppest tier /sci/ bait here
Mfw its true though

>>14754231
Your problem is you think these are drugs. They may look like drugs but they're not drugs, they're chemical gateways to other realms.

>>14754237
See >>14754211

>>14754240
You're predictably just avoiding the issue at hand by downplaying how potent the insights these substances can provide.

>>14754246
This is really eerie. It's like you're trying to sound like a bot on purpose.

>>14754247
Funny I thought the same about you. You're not even augmenting, you're just trying your best to say "I'm better, you're retarded". Not even using any sophisticated language to achieve this, but more like slinging shit at a mirror to see if it sticks.

>>14754246
Care to give an example of those insights? Say something other druggies haven't said already.

>>14754249
Tell me something about your normie psychedelic experiences and "insights" that hasn't already been posted on Twitter and r/psychedelics tens of thousands of times. Protip: you can't.

>>14754257
>>14754258
Kek. The most tragic thing is that normalbots are so generic and predictable that they elicit a very limited range of response, effectively dragging others down to their level and making the whole discussion botlike.

>>14754257
>>14754258
>say something about the unspeakable experience
Get yourself 3 grams of psilocybin mushrooms, lock yourself into a room and experience it yourself. Nothing I can ever say will do it justice.

>>14754260
You're not special just because you do drugs, because unless you are an artist there's nothing useful about your insights.

>>14754267
All great scientists are artists.

>>14754265
Not a real answer.

>>14754271
>here's this repeatable method to experience magic first hand and finally realize the world isn't reducible to simple components
>nOt a ReAl AnSweR

>>14754265
Another 100% automated drone response. Notice how you will never be able to say anything human, let alone authentic and insightful, no matter how many times you are probed.

>>14751377
Is there any mental health risks with taking psychidelics? Everywhere I look seems to not same much about side effects, but I'm suspicious there can be such thing as a free lunch.

>>14754295
There's a tiny chance that you'll go schizo if you are predisposed to that. There's also a decent chance that you'll have a traumatizing experience. I'd give it like a 5% chance that you'll suffer some long-term consequences.

>>14754295
Yeah. Before trying them, do yourself a favor and research it extremely well. Go through all the trip reports of your target substance so you can get at least an idea of what might happen. When you're under the influence, __DONT__ fight it. If you fight it it will rape you and give you the worst experience of your life. Simply let go, it does end.

But yeah there is a risk. But anything with so much power carries risk. Treat it with the same respect you would a loaded shotgun. And you might come out with some incredible experiences if you do so. There's very few people who have undergone a psychedelic experience and don't rank it as one of the most significant experiences they ever had.

You don't call alcoholics gurus yet you do call psych abusers. Curious!
t. took acid at least seven times, sometimes with other drugs

>>14754291
You're still stuck in the mindset that says "if I can't understand it, it doesn't exist". News flash dumbass, nobody understands the psychedelic experience, not even the most experienced psychonaut. It goes well beyond our little cute way of organizing symbols into patterns. But you're too dumb to understand that. In fact I don't know what you're even doing in this thread. I recommend you hide it and focus on other things that might not present such a cognitive challenge for you.

>>14754321
I'm just gonna see how many fully generic, zero-content, obviously nonhuman posts I can get you to write. Do me another one.

>>14754325
He says without a hint of irony while producing generic, zero-content, obvious NPC posts.

>uhh so i ate 1.5g of shrooms and i had the most super ultra profound indescribable experience
>you guys just heckin' NEED to hear about it
>it LITERALLY refutes materialistS
>so uhhh here's what happened
>i saw machine elves and gears just like i read about on reddit
>and it was so amazing and indescribable
>i can't even begin to explain how deeply meaningful it is
>words just can't describe how deep and insightful it was
>my insights are so profound that i can't say anything remotely insightful or relevant
>i just need you to know how little you understand
>you just can't see that reality is an illusion until you take 0.5g of shrooms like i did
>i can't communicate it with words
>it's impossible to understand
>don't you get it?
>it's impossible to talk about and it's impossible to understand
>no one gets the fucking psychedelic experience
>that's why i'm so enlightened
>now let me tell you more about how there is nothing to say about it

>>14754326
>>14754328

>>14754328
Cute

>>14754328
lmao
acid is a fun drug, most psychs are, it's just losers with no personality pretending it's meaningful

>>14754360
If psychedelics are fun, then you've taken way too little to be the judge of that.

Psychedelics show you that life isn't very serious business. That's why is pisses all the squares off, naturally because they're the ones that insist that life should be serious business.

>>14754395
>>14754328

>>14754395
Notice how every single one of your posts is standard soulless normie posing. You keep prattling on about how much drug of a drug you took and how little of the drug you assume others took. It's funny just how little humanity there is in you/

>>14754395
Stop gatekeeping. Took acid seven times I think, 4 of those >300ug, twice with weed and edibles, once with shrooms and alcohol. Sure I might not have taken DMT or some highly experimental fashion drug, but I did my fair share of psychs. I was also a heavy weed smoker (two years, no break). I speak from experience. There is nothing beyond this material reality. Psychs alter your perception, not the thing itself. All the druggies that I know that keep on yapping about these highly spiritual experiences are dead-beat, glass-eyed loser faggots, half of them had some traumatic experience and came off worse after the drugs. I knew perfectly well the know-how, how the drugs work, what the effects are, what happens each hour approximately, I even kept a record of my hallucinations and every time, up to reasonable deviation, essentially the same thing happened. Never had a bad trip, never accidentaly lost track of self during the tripping.

Oh and it's always the same shit with you dull faggots. Even if I did DMT and said the same thing above, you'd say 'Oh but you didn't have an experienced tripsitter'; if I had one, you'd assume he did a poor job. The drugs work on a material basis. The material world is all there is. All these years, yet no conclusive evidence of anything beyond it, and you know it, we all know it -- yet for some retarded reason, you still cling onto this childish idea that there is something more to this. Pro-tip: there's not. Enjoy it while it lasts.

t. never had depression, no mental issues, exercise often and in good physical health, healthy relationship with my father and mother, had a few girlfriends and have friends who reguraly call me to hang, graduated university this year.

Go ahead, proceed to say something else condescending.

>>14754431
Normie.

>>14754422
Anon ur autistic, just stop fighting, take the shrooms.

>>14754446
Nigger, the sad thing is that I've taken more shrooms than you can dream of, but no matter how high you get you will never have a meaningful experience and it shows every time you shart out a post that's little more than a plagiarized teenage tweet.

>>14754449
Cool, lmk when u take the shrooms.

>brain does a bunch of chemical stuff
>"oh wow! this is truth! and accurate! objective! wow! the certainty im feeling here is infallible!"

>brain does a bunch of very slightly different chemical stuff
>"WEED LMAO FUCK OFF NORMIE GET REKT WOO WOO THATS NOT SCIENCE YOU JUNKIE"

if you dont recognize that psychedelic experiences are at the very least epistemologically and existentially troubling, you may actually be retarded

nobody is saying youve gotta believe the machine elves exist outside your mind....but when you recognize that the same certainty you feel about the veracity of the material world while sober can be felt about 7th dimensional spinning triangles on dmt, that really rips up a lot of fundamental intuitions you have about what is 'real'

and if you die without ever having had a powerful psychedelic experience, i genuinely pity you. youre a blind dude going to the grave proud of the fact that you never got to see color. how fucking sad.

>>14754459
YWNB human.

>>14754468
>>14754328

>>14754476
cringe cope

>>14754479
So what's your major insight, normie poser? How does your profound experience translate into wisdom in real life?

>>14754488
>an experience cant be profound unless you can articulate it in full to someone who's never had anything like it
how are you not embarrassed to post something this stupid?

>>14754501
So it doesn't translate into any real life insights or wisdom?

>>14754468
The only meaningful thing we can extrapolate from a psychedelic experience, is that our brains go fuzzy on them. The thing with reality is that it's the same for everyone. Me and my cat can both sit on the same bench, eat the same meat, drink the same water. Sure, her perception might be different from mine -- doesn't change the fact that the underlying reality is the same. You cannot say that about psychs. When everyone has a different experience (besides the visual dimension of it, which, btw, was categorized and explained sufficiently well in scientific and material terms, to be just the way our brains work when overstimulted)* you cannot expect me to believe that there is something that we 'just have to tap in broooo'. Fuck off.

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loCBvaj4eSg

>>14754514
Normie.

>>14754516
Only losers believe that being a normie is an insult.

>>14754520
Normie.

>>14754521
Yeah, and?

>>14754526
Normies are not fully human and have a lower level of sentience. Your opinions are automatically worthless. :^(

>>14754537
I guess people who never had a meaningful relationship with other people and live in a secluded corner of the internet have had more of a human experience than us normoids :^)
btw how's your relationship with your father?

>>14754552
Normies will never have a meaningful relationship or any type of meaningful experience.

>>14754558
Avoiding the question, huh? That's okay bubby, take your time. I'm sure you have lots of nice memories of your parents that you can reminisce on.

>>14754561
You are not fully human.

>>14754564
Thanks anon, very cool. How about that father-son relationship? Ever felt love? No? Oh I'm sure you will someday ;-D

>>14754574
Every single post you shart out sounds like projection. Either way, you will never be human.

I took shrooms once. I ended up just looking at stupid Donald Duck edits for like two hours and they seemed extremely interesting and profound. Then I listened to some psytrance and stared at the cool art the video had. Then I was gonna go out for a walk but I thought I looked like a mess, so I just stayed indoors after all

>>14754583
Now don't get angry with a feeble-minded norrrrrmie like me anon :^( I didn't know better than to anger my sub- I mean superhuman 4chan overlords :^)

I mean, what would a norrrrmie like me know of fulfilling interpersonal relations, LMAO! I had to ask a professional in the field, y'know.

>>14754589
Oh yeah and I also looked at my walls vibrate when I stayed at home. That was my profound experience with psychedelics

>>14754505
why would it?

>>14754514
>reality is the same for everyone!!
>as im told, by my subjective experiences, which are the things in question
why do discussions about psychedelic experiences bring out the dumbest people

>>14754683
Oh yeah?
>cracks open your head with a rock
Why did you subjectively experience that fag? It's all in your head

>>14754683
Scientists amusingly can't understand even the most basic epistemology.

>>14754799
Lenin already debunked your Machian empiro-criticism a century ago.
>inb4 muh commie tranny ACK
Don't bother replying unless you can counterargue

>>14751766
Yes and no. Your conscious experience of love is real and special. The hormones do work like that but the experience of love is not reducable to these hormone workings just like consciousness isn't reducable to the firing of neurons. If you do think so you're a retard. Materialism is so fucking stupid. 85% of the universe is apparently dark energy and dark matter which no one fucking knows what that is but at the same time physicists often take a materialistic stance it's so cringe. Read Hegels phenomology of the spirit. You can even have intuitionist logic and mathematics (L.E.J. Brouwer).

>>14753966
>>14754002
Thank you!
>>14754431
I believe you. But what you must understand is that DMT and ayahuasca takes you a hundred times further away than LSD, once consumed a proper dose in a proper way. You might as well be a psychedelic virgin when you sit down and consume 400 grams of banisteriopsis caapi and 50 grams of mimosa hostilis. You will experience the end of everything that you thought exists.

But even then, as powerful as DMT is, it is still nothing compared to an NDE. Since NDErs are representativeof the population as a whole, as mentioned here - >>14753966 - some of them have tried DMT, and they say that it is nothing compared to the NDE. Consider for instance this life review description from the book linked to here >>14753966:

>"The room seemed to be suspended in mid air, and right in the middle of the dark of space with swirling galaxies going on all around it. Standing on a floor that appeared as reflective, black onyx. I looked up, and saw four translucent screens begin to appear – and form a kind of gigantic, cubed box all around me. It was through this method that I was shown my life review. Without ever having to turn my head, I panoramically saw my past, present, future – and there was even a screen behind me that displayed a tremendous amount of scientific data, numbers, symbols and universal codes. I was in complete amazement because (as all of this was occurring) I realized I understood absolutely everything I was seeing – even in the most microscopic detail! There seemed to be no limit to the thoughts I was able to think or the ideas I was able to absorb. In this space, what we tend to think of as a limited comprehension or single-mindedness here on Earth, becomes truly infinite and limitless here! I kept thinking over and over how true it is what they say: that when we go back home – we all really are of one mind!"

These reviews also include every single hallucination from every psychedelic they have ever done.

>>14751377
>>14753966
What awaits you after is incomprehensible compared to what this puny mortal world you see right now

>>14751377
Look man, I really am in favor of psychedelics, for I believe, that we can learn a great amount of things about ourselves, our worldview and our brain with them. But you misunderstood one thing: they cant teach you anything about the world they can only teach you something about yourself and how you view the world. And the whole „whoa dude, we dont know anything“ thing is something 16 year olds say after their first joint. People like you ruin rational psychedelic movement. Stop talking about NPCs or spirituality and do something. Prove how psychedelics show us a „truth“ explain how they work, prove how we can use them for our own good, prove anything. If you cant, then learn something about science, read about neurosciences, educate yourself and show the world how psychdelics can „open our eyes“ or something. Either that or you should just stop talking about things you dont understand.
Everyday I feel more ashamed to promote the use of psychdelics, because of people like you. Aldous Huxley was right when he said, that psychdelics should obly be consumed by educated people.

>>14754862
There's nothing to consider there. It's all vague, flowery prose.

>>14754679
So it doesn't translate into any insight of wisdom in real life. Okay. Thanks for openly admitting it.

>>14754887
>they cant teach you anything about the world they can only teach you something about yourself and how you view the world
Normie.

>>14754887
You write like a fucking retard. It's clear that you've ruined your brain with chemicals.

>take psychedelics
>become too retarded to understand the world
>project this retardation to everyone else
>"guys guys listen, the science is wrong, guys please listen"

>>14755365
Psychedelics expand your mind and perception rather than shrink them. This expansion can be significant enough that the user finds completely new ways of interacting with the world, often times shocking in their emotional magnitude and the capacity to completely override your standard protocols of living.

>>14751621
NPCs love spirituality as it needs no explanation and no rational thought.

>>14753966
Interesting post. I'll have to take a look at those links. My interest is piqued

>>14755004
Damn, so sad to be a boring normie with no soul instead of an ascended psychedelic shaman who can see through the barrier of our mortal realm.
>>14755280
If you would know anything about the subject, you would clearly know, that these drugs can't make you dumb/retarded. They may make you a dellusional shizo like you.

>>14753966
>NDE
that's just a DMT trip, you dumb shit

>>14751547
what is the material? It's ultimately information, which is based upon mind, whether objective or subjective.

Mind is, in fact, more "real" than matter.

>>14755423
Your use of commas is abnormal, which is typical of druggies. Specifically, the second comma in your first sentence addressed to me is unnecessary. It implies that you wanted to emphasise the word 'know' for dramatic effect, which again, is abnormal.

this is my analogy for DMT.
your perception is like a single line from the center extending out to one random edge of the outer layer of the sphere.
when you take DMT, it expands your perception to all of the possible angles extending to the outside of the sphere.
it completely opens your mind and allows new information to be received

>>14751377
I've noticed that my actual thoughts become the same shape as the spiraling infinities you get visually. I know that doesn't really make sense but when you know you know.

so this board is where all the people from /x/ went

>>14751377
Psychedelics actually give insights into your own mind and subconscious. Everything you wrote is literally what you yourself think or believe on a fundamental level

>>14753966
>>14755415
You're welcome.
>>14755457
>>NDE
>that's just a DMT trip, you dumb shit
It's demonstrably not. See this post >>14754862. Furthermore, see this study which thoroughly refutes the idea that DMT = NDE: https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc937961/m2/1/high_res_d/31-1_4_Potts.pdf
>>14754994
This is the kind of NPC defense mechanism that I was talking about in this post >>14753966. No charitability towards the NDE experience, no open mind, no curiosity, just the most lame attempt at rationalization for preserving their current beliefs ever and not having to some reading on the subject. Yawn. But, I don't blame you. Looking into the NDE literature can be life-changing when you realize that there really is an afterlife, and some people just don't want to go through that. It's comfortable to not challenge your beliefs. And reading the book mentioned here >>14753966
can be brutal experience for skeptics who have dismissed the NDE without reflecting about it before. The great irony, though, is that "skeptics" do not realize that they react to the NDE in the same way that those in Plato's cave react to those who come back from having escaped it. They don't WANT to hear about the light world who's existence if self-evident to those who have experienced it.

>>14756324
there is not a single shred of evidence that NDEs are real.

>>14756327
There's not a single shred of evidence that you are real

>>14751377
>hat we are clueless about how the world really works

Do you deny physics and chemistry?

To say that we don't understand everything, at the limit ok. But to imply that we don't understand anything is just stupid.

>>14755718
update i tried DMT for the 3rd or 4th time today..
it was NOT like my previous experiences which were very fun the whole way and not nearly as chaotic..
i think i probably dosed too much, cause i did not feel the effects of the first bowl very much which was odd since it was the same amount i have done before... so i loaded a second bowl and dumped a whole bunch in...
i was listening to what i thought was a chill song, however on DMT the lyrics sounded almost demonic..
the first 3-4 minutes were basically complete schizophrenic chaos... however i was aware that what it was showing me was just retarded nonsense so i just observed them, it was also quite terrifying but i knew it would not last very long, however if it did last longer i would've gone insane...
at the same time though however i felt an energy that was deeply rooted within myself, so as the schizo thoughts were occurring i was simultaneously syncing up with the calming peaceful energy...
once the second song played, it was a much calmer vibe.. the visuals with my eyes closed were extremely intense and unpleasant, but with the second song i just left my eyes open, and merged with the grounding energy, and the schizo chaotic thoughts dissipated.
this was the first 'negative' encounter with the substance, though i do think it was teaching me a lesson... if you can be still like a monk during those chaotic times it makes you stronger, also it was impossible to just not have the crazy intense schizo thoughts at the time... but by the second song i was able to let that pass, and i think it helped to overall get into a more meditative state and silence my mind..
i was sceptical before whether my thoughts would bring chaos since there was some minor fear i did not have enough control to silence my mind.
it showed me some what i needed perhaps but i think the dose was a bit much..

>>14755386
Mentally ill take.

>>14754842
There was a time when people didn't know what air was. Of course now it's known that it's just various atoms floating around

>>14756564
a few songs afterwards though i could feel the emotion i felt very clearly of when i had to say goodbye to my dog, and how much that killed me inside... but also how much that pain equated to love.. and the feeling of always being connected with my dog through my heart ..
definitely prepare to embrace utter insanity before entering the dmt realm.. i thought it was going to be much chiller like my previous experiences going into it which caught me off-guard, but i've dealt with enough chaos on psychedelics to just roll with the punches ...
if any insight is to be gained i would say its much more related to your emotional state and sense of self, rather than esoteric knowledge about certain subjects

>>14754862
So how much of that scientific data did he bring back? I've had dreams where I felt like I was saying something really smart and deep, but then I wake up and I just think like that shit was retarded. Can he even remember any of the stuff he saw? You can feel like you're discovering all kinds of amazing stuff when you're hallucinating, even if it's actually just a bunch of nothing

>>14756324
Oh fuck off. When a person experiences some phenomena they can more or less explain how to replicate it, or at the very least give some process with which other people may try to replicate it, or develop it further if it's wrong. With NDEs and psych experiences there is nothing like that. There hasn't been one person that had a NDE and said "Okay, if anyone else wishes to experience this, here's what they have to do." You know why? Because it's not a phenomen that exists in the actual world. And I'm right about the vague flowery bullshit prose. Just read this and tell me this sounds good:
>Without ever having to turn my head, I panoramically saw my past, present, future – and there was even a screen behind me that displayed a tremendous amount of scientific data, numbers, symbols and universal codes
Oh yeah? So what were these codes, data, equations and so on? If they already claim that
>I realized I understood absolutely everything I was seeing
Why can't they fucking replicate it?
Just fuck off. I'm tired of this empiro-critical bullshit today's scientific community has to deal with. When we had real, cold science in the last century we made progress in every field, even in these fields you have a hard-on for.

>>14756577
Normie.

>>14756583
IF (person disagrees with my bullshit)
THEN print("Normie.")

>>14756586
You will never be human.

>>14756592
WHILE (absent father figure == TRUE)
print("You will never be human.")

>>14751377
There are roughly five types of psychedelic experiences: introspective, zenlike, cheap thrill, schizoshit and chaos. The first two are extremely valuable because they provide genuine insights, perspective and inspiration to be a better person and make the most out of your life. The third one is alright -- nothing wrong with having fun. It's the fourth one that's the problem: if you're a level-headed and intelligent individual, you'll get through it with your mind intact and cherish it as a mindblowing adventure, but a mediocre and delusion-prone mind will be convinced that the universe has revealed sacred metaphysical truths to them; they come out of it with absolutely nothing to show for their supposed insights, they continue to live empty lives and to behave like obnoxious normies, but they will blather on and on about how they've seen beyond the veil (no, they can't explain what's there, you just won't get it), how it has enlightened them (no, being enlightened doesn't mean you have to be a better person or to lead a better life; true enlightenmend is just to know how fucking enlightened you are) and how if you didn't think your own schizoshit trips were ultimately so important and profound, you just aren't on their fucking level (in terms of how much of the drug they took). It's sad.

>>14756595
>normie projects

>>14756481
Physics and chemistry work in our domain. They cease to work in the domains that powerful psychedelics like DMT and Salvia take you to.

>>14756679
>physics and chemistry don't work in the domain of my fever dreams
Okay...

>>14756679

>>14756692
>>14756698
Just because you're too unimaginative to allow the possibility, doesn't mean reality is. Try a bigass dose of DMT and tell me where you can find physics there.

You people are like fish in the pond, completely unaware that there's a vast world outside of the pond. And when someone tells you hey you know what, the world might be a little bigger and more mysterious, you are very quick to remind them that there's no mystery under water. That's why you have to fucking go out of the water to experience how vast the dimensions of experience are. You confine yourself to a box and define that everything that exists should be in that box, without ever having the courage to wander out of it.

>>14756711
The laws of physics don't change because you're shitfaced, dumbass.

>>14756711
See >>14756631

>>14756719
You're committing the rookie mistake of thinking the same rules that apply to alcohol, morphine, xanax and other drugs, apply to psychedelics. It's really quite cute actually. I wanted to write a long rebuttal but what's the point, your capacity to understand the post-rational domain is inexistent, and you're only going to regurgitate silly reductionist statements ad nauseum. You truly have no idea.

>>14756733
You're not special because you took drugs.

>>14756739
Nobody is claiming that. You're not special because you didn't take drugs, either.

My claim is simply that your mind can take you into places where physics and chemistry have no power whatsoever, and they are as real and as anchored as the reality you know. If you're too foolish to take me seriously, then don't. Personally I find the claim that physical reality is all there is, naïve and foolish.

>>14751628
can you explain what's the dronelinke content of his post?

>>14756745
>You're not special because you didn't take drugs
On the contrary, I've taken quite a lot of psychs.
>your mind can take you into places where physics and chemistry have no power whatsoever
Does that mean that if I shoot in your face while your on a hero dose you will survive?

>>14756749
you're on a heroic dose*

>>14756749
You're exhibiting what I like to call mechanistic thinking. You're trying to wrap the post-rational domain into your rational cloth. It won't work and it's an exercise in stupidity.

>>14756711
I've had dreams where I can fly or run extremely fast, so what. It's a hallucination, real world physics don't mean anything

>>14756756
Call it whatever you like. But answer the question. Once you go into this altered state where the laws of nature no longer apply, will you survive a bullet to the head?

>>14756763
The fact that you even ask such a stupid question tells me that you're not ready for the answer.

>>14756769
So basically you're saying that no, you don't teleport to another dimension

>>14756769
Pffffft alright enlightened one, have fun in your altered reality. That's the only place where you can be a winner -- somewhere high out of your mind and with no responsibilites but the heckin machine elves

>>14756747
Ignorance and idiocy, by their very nature, are mostly unconstrained by logic, fact or experience. They are mainly constrained by the idiot's imagination, the idiot's upbringing or the idiot's intellectual fashion. When you see a million people all spouting the same superficial, uninformative and mostly wrong take, you know they didn't come up with that on their own.

>>14756781
What is uninformative or wrong about the post?

>>14756774
I'm saying that you have no clue how destiny works. These substances play with us like a child playing with toys. If it was meant that you blew my head off with a shotgun, then no matter what I do, that will be the result. If it was meant that I wouldn't get my head blown off, then no matter what YOU did, it wouldn't happen.

You simply have this mechanistic way of thinking and it's blinding you from seeing the truth of reality. Reality that you experience on a daily basis is like a veneer over what is actually true. What is actually true is accessible, and your mind has the capacity to see it. It's simply trained not to.

And yes it's very possible to smoke Salvia and get transported to another realm for what seems like ages. Not a common report with DMT, but that hardly makes it impossible. Funny how closed minded scientists are nowadays.

>>14756783
Everything in his one-line blurb.

>>14756788
Is it incorrect that psychedelics alter how your brain functions?

>>14754431
im here to say that ygmi (already made it)

>>14756787
You fucking retards high on your farts using words incorrectly annoy me like no one else. The thing you describe about getting or not getting shot IS mechanicistic thinking.

mechanistic
/mɛkəˈnJstJk/
relating to theories which explain phenomena in purely physical or DETERMINISTIC terms.

>for what seems like ages
Exactly. "Seems". Because it's a hallucination. Not another dimension. Dumbass faggot.

>>14756787
You said absolutely nothing

The only thing psychedelics prove it you can fuck with egoists brain chemistry and they'll take it as some arrogant sign that they're specially enlightened above everyone else.

>>14756789
It's incorrect that they "shut off your reasoning capabilities" and your "connection to reality", but I like how you're backpedaling to save face.

>>14756806
Psychedelics decrease brain activity, as shown by brain scans

>>14756811
Mosly wrong and completely irrelevant. See >>14756781

>>14756800
Determinism, time, physics, chemistry are all utterly meaningless concepts in the domain between life and death. You're only mad because I'm pushing the buttons that you don't like having pushed. I'm agitating you wiring that's responsible for coherent picture of reality, and you're getting mad because somewhere deep down, you still haven't forgotten about it.

>>14756801
If I tried to explain the nuances of quantum thermodynamics to a neanderthal, that would be their response too. You require a certain amount of intelligence to grasp what was said, intelligence which you don't possess.

>>14756814
Yeah brain activity is irrelevant to how your brain functions under the effect, that makes sense

>Brain scans reveal the surprising secret of magic mushrooms’ hallucinogenic effect. The geometric visuals and vivid imaginings experienced by those tripping on mushrooms are not, as scientists had suspected, the result of increased brain activity, according to a report out today (23 January) in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Instead, under the influence of psilocybin—the psychedelic component of magic mushrooms—brain activity and connectivity decrease. The reduced connectivity might be what frees people’s minds from normal constraints, the researchers propose. “It was often thought to be the case that these classic hallucinogens must increase brain function—you know, they expand awareness, expand consciousness—but in fact what we see is decreased activity,”

https://maps.org/news/media/scanning-the-psychedelic-brain/

>>14756827
Your study is contradicted by dozens of other studies, but in any case, it doesn't show prove your claims, drone.

>>14756820
All you did was babble about destiny, it's not as deep as you think. Like whoa man, if you shot me in the head, I would die, but if you didn't shoot me in the head, I would like, not die. Profound

>>14756833
Funny how you instantly go into self defense.

Fine, it's not profound. Enjoy your life, I'm done with this thread, waste of time.

>>14756832
Please link some other studies and brain scan results

>>14756820
My god. Every single time it's the same. How come you enlightened ones are so full of yourselves? How come you always speak in a condescending matter to everyone who doesn't take up your bullshit? How come you're the intelligent one simply because you took a chemical substance with no other effort?

Get a grip.

>>14756839
How come you contradict everything that is said before even giving it an honest overview?

>>14756836
Which part of that seemed like self defense to you? I was just saying it sounded retarded

>>14756843
Because I gave it an honest overview years ago and came to this conclusion. Again, why do you insist that everyone who disagrees with you does so out of ignorance?

>>14756838
I don't need to because all this talk about brain activity is irrelevant. It's a given that psychedelics don't shut off your reasoning, nor do they make you less connected to reality. Many are able to reason and sense reality on psychedelics just fine, if not better than usual.

>>14756850
Let me guess, everything is material, we live in a meaningless universe that is unaware of itself, and when we die that's it, we cease to exist?

If this accurately describes your ontological standings, then we have nothing to talk about. Because you are, indeed, and ignorant ignoramus, completely unaware of the forces that permeate this universe.

>>14756862
>everything is material
Yes.
>meaningless universe that is unaware of itself
This doesn't mean anything.
>when we die that's it, we cease to exist
I do not know what happens after we die.

>Because you are, indeed, and ignorant ignoramus, completely unaware of the forces that permeate this universe.
Pffft alright Humpty-Dumpty, don't get too mad when I unawarely permeate your mother's asshole tonight.

>>14756871
Child.

>>14756856
How is brain activity irrelevant to how you experience things?

>>14756875
Notice how you keep blatantly lying because you have no other resort.

>>14756874
Goo goo ga ga. Looks like I shit my pants. Clean me up, adult.

>>14756877
Which part of that is a lie? It was a question. I would like to hear your explanation for why brain activity has nothing to do with our perception of reality

>>14756880
>Which part of that is a lie?
The part where you pretend I said brain activity doesn't influence experience. I just said brain activity is irrelevant to this discussion, since there is no way to translate brain scans into reliable judgments about experience. This is even demonstrated by your delusional insistence that people on psychedelics can't reason and become disonnected from reality: your conclusion is directly contradicted by subjects with surprising insights, or the ones who show extreme attentiveness and sensitivity to their surroundings on psychedelics. Discussion closed.

>>14751644
I will be more impressed when someone comes back from one of these mind bending experiences with some insight that can be verified by experimental evidence or, if its an entirely new take on math, computer science or AI development, verification by application.
Otherwise its all hand wavy and unsubstantiated conjecture, of utterly no use.

The thing that bothers me about trip reports is that no one is able to describe or detail their experience in any way that reveals any substantiated useful insight into the universe or nature. I can not believe every psychonaut is only semi-illiterate and incapable of scientifically analyzing the experience when they become grounded again.
>But it doesn't work that way!
If they can not describe it then its useless.

>>14756893
Psychedelics inspired countless discoveries. Your lack of being impressed stems from your own ignorance.

>The thing that bothers me about trip reports is that no one is able to describe or detail their experience in any way
That's simply because the experience transcends our language. Describing what happened to you in words is absolutely impossible, and every psychonaut will tell you the same thing. You can make flowery and inspired-sounding statements, but that's like describing to you what the taste of a hamburger is. It can't be done, not even by reference. We have no reference for the things psychedelics show you.

>>14756887
I trust that you would agree that altered brain activity alters our experience though. So it can not be called irrelevant, when the entire psychedelic experience is started by putting weird shit in our brain. Why is that anyway, why is it that we can only experience the real reality by putting foreign chemicals in our brain?

>>14756905
The thing that always gets under my skin with you pseuds isn't that you're incorrect when you say the experiences can't be communicated with words. No experience can be communicated with words, so that much is trivial. What gets under my skin is the way you pretend you, right now, in a normal state of mind, have any more of a handle on what happened to you than he does. You don't. You have none. Your babble is empty not just on the level that you're not describing anything, but also on the level that you at best have a very, very faint idea of what you're alluding to.

>>14756913
>So it can not be called irrelevant
It's irrelevant as far as your ability to prove your claims goes, since you can't show how your conclusion follows from brain scans except by hand-waving that is contradicted by far more direct evidence.

>>14756917
I have experience of other worlds. Something that most people (namely those who have never done psychedelics, or have never had a legit astral projection, or have never had a legit NDE) simply don't know about. My claim isn't that I know more than you, on the contrary. If anything, I admit to knowing very, very little. I'm humbled by my experiences to the point where I truly am aware that we know nothing. You "sciency" types on the other hand, carry this hubris around with you and you think you know everything there is to know about reality. When what's really out there would shock you to your very core.

>>14754307
>most significant experiences they ever had.
Can you give any example of how a person might behave before ever taking a trip, and how that might change their behavior afterwards?

>>14751766
>muh telephone book

>>14756924
>before trip
HAHA I KNOW EVERYTHING LOOK AT ME I HAVE A CAR AND A JOB AND A HOUSE AND I HAVE STUDIED MATH AND PHYSICS HAHA LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I'M SO GREAT
>after trip
"Holy shit I am such a fucking moron, how the fuck did I not see the unreality of things"

>>14756920
>I'm humbled by my experiences to the point where I truly am aware that we know nothing
Then why don't you shut the fuck up instead of spamming /sci/? You don't act like you've been humbled. You act like yet another narcissistic poser off of r/DMT.

>>14756935
That's just your projection.

Why do you post here?

>>14756919
Do you also believe that alcohol has nothing to do with how it feels like to be drunk. I don't understand why psychedelics need to be this special case

What kind of cosmic joke is that anyway, the real world is hidden from us, unless you eat this weird fungus growing on some tree. It's like that comic where that guy wakes up from the matrix after eating silica gel. You can transport to another realm and talk to the machine gnomes, but only if you filter this exotic root from South America through benzene. Has any of the creatures in those other world explained to anybody why the real world is hidden like you're heading to the train to Hogwarts

>>14756938
Why do you, my humble friend, come here to repeatedly screech "you can't know nuffin'" on a science board, if you're not just another narcissistic normie? Shouldn't someone on your spiritual level be aware that others are being reasonable in telling you to fuck off, since you are offering them nothing in the way of evidence or even detailed information?

>>14756942
It's simpler than that. The real world is accessible to you without any substances whatsoever, but you need to be willing to let go of all of your cultural programming. But you aren't, like nobody is. This is why there exist chemical agents that temporarily shock your operating system into a cold reboot. And while it's rebooting, you experience the truth. This truth cannot be told or explained, and so we go round and round in a cloud of egoic confusion.

>>14756942
Your lying is starting to look less like lying and more like outright psychosis.

>>14756947
Why do you take that as narcissism? What part of the claim that science is extraordinarily limited fills elicits this emotional reaction of yours?

And why do you need detailed information or evidence? Get yourself some magic mushrooms, try it yourself. Too scared that you'll also become one of those deranged spiritual people you loathe so much?

>>14756948
Fuck off, normie pseud. He was addressing to me, not to you.

>>14756954
Why do you, my humble friend, come here to repeatedly screech "you can't know nuffin'" on a science board? Is that really humble behavior? Shouldn't someone on your spiritual level be aware that others are being reasonable in telling you to fuck off, since you are offering them nothing in the way of evidence or even detailed information? Please try to answer my questions in your next post. :^)

>>14756948
>This truth cannot be told or explained
Classic, it really changed how I see things, no I can't explain how or why, or what it was. Can you at least explain what you're doing differently in your life now that you're realized this truth

>>14756327
That's like saying there's not a single shred of evidence that the planet Pluto exists. Self-evidently false to those who have read the literature, but you can't force someone to read the literature. You will never read the literature so I can't help you, for the reasons already elaborated upon in this post >>14753966.
>>14756575
This is dealt with in the book mentioned here >>14753966.
>>14756577
You can't replicate history in a lab either, and yet all people consider it a worthy field of study with reliable knowledge.
Have you ever actually thought about these issues for more than 5 minutes, read the literature, or sincerely asked yourself the questions, "Maybe I am actually wrong? Maybe 100% of the population are not idiots when they judge the NDE to be real as they have it? Maybe not all NDE scientists are frauds or existential copers when they claim to have found evidence for this stuff? Maybe other people have seriously considered all of these simple points I am cope-defending my worldview with?"? Because my strong suspicion is that the answer is no to all of these, since you seem to get emotional so easily, like a child that desperately do not want to be proven wrong.
Here is some necessary reading about your predictable approach, mindset, and disposition: https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc799144/m2/1/high_res_d/vol21-no1-5.pdf

>>14756960
Why do scientists go around telling people how electricity works?

>>14756969
They don't.

>>14756965
I don't take life as seriously as I used to. That's one of the common side-effects of psychedelics. It allows me to be more humorous about things, and to be ok with the fact that it will all come to an end. This is why psychedelics do wonders for dying people. Something like 90% of them end up accepting death after a single mushroom trip.

>>14756952
I'm just genuinely curious what your theory is for that? Why can we only experience reality after ingesting obscure plants or fungi? Why aren't we experiencing reality constantly? What's the point of that

>>14751377
Nah not really. If anything it just shows you the hyperbolic space that consciousness sits in and our baseline cognition has regulated itself really well to present us with the most stable version of reality possible. When you disrupt that system it devolves into chaos and you get taken for a trip. It feels like there is something more too it. ill say that our brains are vastly more capable in what they can simulate to our ego but its not that its more real than our stable interpretation of reality. It is just misrepresenting reality in a very real way.

>>14756973
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_X2cMHNe0

It's all bullshit. Nothing but matter exists. Your own psychedelic experiences are due to a material substance affecting material receptors in your brain. The faster you learn this the faster you obtain actual enlightenment

>>14756969
>>14756973
They don't, but if they did, at least they know how it works. You just go around churning out paragraph after paragraph about how your knowledge is too profound for meaning communication. lol

>>14756983
Oh, I know how it works too. And I have a perfectly repeatable experiment. Simply submit yourself to a DMT dose.

It's YOU who's not cooperating. We've figured it out on my end.

>>14756976
It looks like there's some bug in your programming. We were discussing the way your drone sharts are vacuous and unsubstantiated but you constantly devolve into arguing imaginary voices in your head saying things I never said.

>>14756981
>Nothing but matter exists.
How come matter exists and there isn't just nothing?

>>14756974
Okay but what if I'm already like that, is that really all there was to it

>>14756985
You and your likes truly are some of the lowest trash on this planet. There is no meaningful difference between you and the mindless materialist cultists you thing you're fighting here. You are what they are and you need to be removed by physical means.

>>14756987
lmao who cares go get some bitches

>>14756990
>blah blah blah
So you're not going to do the experiment which lasts 10 minutes, instead you'll just churn out more and more ego garbage to justify your failing worldview. Got it.

I would like to try a solid trip. I would Ike to go in with the intention of at least trying to find some insight into nature. Like for example just trying to understand the nature of space and time. I like to imagine that all preconceptions would be blown away and I would reach some conceptual understanding that no one has ever thought about. Then when I get back I would have a long deep think about it, and then come up with some idea to test it, like firing subatomic particles at something in some ridiculous manner while predicting the outcome based on the new idea. Would be cool if I could overturn some long standing belief. Like if I could experimentally prove there are actually 4 measurable spatial dimensions existing in our physical reality.

>>14756989
Then I guess you don't need it. It does different things to different people. But in most cases it's a profound experience that you will hardly ever be able to forget.

>>14756992
Been there, done that, my conclusions are completely different from yous. Either way, you are a narcissistic NPC and every post of yours exudes that.

>>14757000
If you took LSD or shrooms and specifically in tiny doses, then you likely have no idea how deep this rabbit hole goes. You're (probably) operating on faulty reasoning based on incomplete experience.

>>14756928
Sounds more like a social comment any introspective and maturing person might have when reflecting upon the nature of daily existence.

>>14756997
You're looking for schizoshit in psychedelics because you are a vacuous and uncreative normie, but you really want to be a special intellectual. If you're motivated enough, you WILL find your schizoshit and become another retard like OP or like Mendelbaur. I'd stay away from psychs if I were you, given the nature of your motivations.

>>14757004
Go brag about your 2 grams on r/psychedelics, kiddie. I'm glad you keep talking like this because it shows that you 100% conform to the disgusting stereotype people assume about you.

>>14757008
It simply shows you that your ego is a bunch of hot air. The thing that huffs and puffs and gets mad and excited and makes problems everywhere it exists, you are shown the unreality of this entity. And then you have a superpower, because everyone else thinks they're real but you know for a fact it's all a bunch of nonsense and your ego is merely a ghost.

>>14756986
I haven't claimed you said those things, I'm just curious about your view about it

>>14757015
I find it funny how you constantly exhibit extreme hubris yet you accuse me of it in the same breath.

Let's talk fucking numbers, asshole. Tell me which psychs you did and how much, and I'll tell you if you qualify to even discuss this topic. Because if you didn't do a high dose of shrooms, or a decent dose of DMT, then you simply have no fucking idea what a psychedelic breakthrough experience is. It's that fucking simple.

>>14757022
>Let's talk fucking numbers, asshole. Tell me which psychs you did and how much
Fucking lol. Like clockwork. Zero impulse control or reflection.

>>14757025
So you never did a heroic dose and now you're here convincing me you know about psychedelics. Got it.

>>14753959
>You don't "trust the chemicals in your brain" when you use the scientific method. The results of an experiment isn't a subjective thing, you witness what reality itself showed you of its inner workings.
The point is that all of your "objective" observations occur through the medium of your senses and brain. As much as science likes the idea of the objective observer, that's an illusory concept. If you subscribe to materialism then you cede that everything you experience, including "observation" and "rational thought" is a subjective experience.

>>14757017
Here's what you asked:
> Why can we only experience reality after ingesting obscure plants or fungi?
Now show me where I stated or implied any of that. As far as I'm concerned, either way you are experiencing reality. How can you experience anything but reality?

>>14757027
See >>14757015

>I created this new model of <insert physical phenomenon> after seeing it in a <insert drug> trip
t. no scientist ever

>>14757035
https://www.hallucinogens.com/lsd/francis-crick.html
Seethe.

>>14757035
>In his presentation, artist Alex Grey noted that Nobel-prize-winner Francis Crick, discoverer of the double helical structure of DNA, also told friends he received inspiration for his ideas from LSD

>>14756942
Wait. So are you claiming that it is possible to experience these hidden worlds and our current reality simultaneously?
So can you sit and be working in a office cubical while also being conscious of the machine elves, or transcendental universe, or whatever, coexisting alongside you?

>>14757040
Not him but yeah, what do you think shizos experience?

>>14751377
>Psychedelics demonstrate
Stipped reading there.

>>>/x/

>>14756976
Seconding this. Would also like some take on this question.

>>14757039
>>14757038
>use a microscope to observe something tangible
>OMG IT WAS INSPIRED BY LE BASED JUNKIE JUICE!!!!
call me back when someone comes out of nowhere with a novel theory about something after taking some drugs and we discover it predicts new shit

>>14757048
Junkie implies addiction. It is next to impossible to get addicted to LSD and other psychedelics. They're not very enjoyable experiences, they're simply profound experiences.

I have a bit of experience with psys and pondering the various philosophies of the world.
OP is right to say that really nobody knows, all phenomena, including beliefs, metaphysical world-schemata, concepts, etc. are just transient, context-bound phenomena. The only constant, unchanging thing in the world is nothing. There is no final answer to anything because both questions and answers are transient phenomena as well. Enlightenment is nothing, truth is nothing, meaning is nothing.

(You can reread the above but slot in God or the Tao, etc. in place of the word "nothing" and it will be equally true, that is to say, not true at all)

There's nothing to say, do, or answer.

>Buddha said: "I consider the positions of kings and rulers as that of dust motes. I observe treasures of gold and gems as so many bricks and pebbles. I look upon the finest silken robes as tattered rags. I see myriad worlds of the universe as small seeds of fruit, and the greatest lake in India as a drop of oil on my foot. I perceive the teachings of the world to be the illusion of magicians. I discern the highest conception of emancipation as a golden brocade in a dream, and view the holy path of the illuminated ones as flowers appearing in one's eyes. I see meditation as a pillar of a mountain, Nirvana as a nightmare of daytime. I look upon the judgment of right and wrong as the serpentine dance of a dragon, and the rise and fall of beliefs as but traces left by the four seasons."

>>14757048
The only reason I even responded was to make you expose yourself as the unthinking, vile drone that you are, so that no one bothers trying to reason with you.

>>14757058
You don't need to take any drugs to spit out the completely vacuous take in your post.

>>14757009
I beg to differ. I am fascinated by the nature of reality. There is so much that modern science and math struggles or seems to reach a tantalizing close yet seemingly impenetrable boundary with, such as the concept of infinity, the origins of the Universe, Zenos paradox, the square root of 2, pi, the evolution of life, the definition of life, the nature of matter, quantum mechanics. Planck length, and much more.
I suspect that many of the limits are due to our conceptions of reality, and that by adopting new conceptual frames we would uncover new or perhaps closer truths. Much like how people were once convinced that the Earth was the center of the Universe, unraveling that revealed a mind blowing new reality that those people had been completely unaware of before.
As for you accusation of ego, quite honestly I dont care for fame, I wouldn't seek it, just the understanding is enough.
With respect to Mendelbaur, I dont know why you would suspect anyone interested in the nature of reality to go full retard like that. I would do the experiment, or submit to peer review. If its wrong, well then, I was wrong. Case closed. Try again.

>>14757082
>completely vacuous
Now you're (not?) getting it.

>>14757040
Seems to me like it should work like that, if both of those are real things. Of course if only one of them is real, then most likely only one can be experienced physically, while the other one can only be experienced while high on drugs

>>14757086
We've all been 12 years olds and listened to Alan Watts at some points in our life. "You can't know nuffin'" is not insight.

>>14757016
Okay, I had to read that a couple of times, but yeah, that's pretty cool.

>>14757097
A younger me would retort with something and try to start a debate. Now I don't care because there's nothing to teach you or be right about.

>>14757031
Why is the true nature of reality hidden in such an obscure way though, at least it seems to me like that. A lot of people are saying they gained insight about the world after those trips, but why does it take licking a tree root to experience that. Seems very strange to me

>>14753966
>>"Statistics collected ... show that the "deeper" the NDE ... the greater the percentage of those who come away certain of the existence of the afterlife. Among those with the deepest experiences ... 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."
The "deeper" the hallucination, the more people believe it's real, or the more people believe it's real, the deeper they report it to be. So what? The same can (and is) said about machine elves. If you don't believe they're real you just haven't taken a high enough dose.

>>14757137
It's more that when you form a model of reality "A" as you grow up, your mind excludes all other models of reality "B", "C", "D" etc. As an organ, the brain is only tolerant of a certain amount of change, and likes to be mostly stable most of the time, so it thenceforth invests lot of neural energy into filtering your interpretation of your experiences so you only notice things that support "A" and don't notice evidence that supports "B", "C", "D". However this filter can be overwhelmed by chronic or acute amounts of information that contradicts "A", such as when someone undergoes a spiritual or personal crisis, or takes psychedelics. So it's not that the "true nature" of reality is being revealed by psys, but instead alternative models of reality that also "make sense." If you learn a lot of different models, you may develop a meta-understanding of the myriad models that can exist and why they rise and fall, which some people could interpret as coming to a higher understanding of reality.

>>14757130
The people who understand what you pretend to understand never talk like you. Reflect on that, narcissistic normalnigger.

>>14757168
I've gone through ego-minimalist phase and an ego-maximalist phase. Yes I'm a little narcissistic, otherwise I wouldn't post at all. That's simply natural for being a human. There is no state of ultimate spiritual purity or enlightenment. Nothing to achieve or attain. I accept my narcissism and egotism.

>>14757137
>Why is the true nature of reality hidden in such an obscure way though
I don't know what your psychotic rambling is about. Is that something the voices in your head said? Are we ever gonna get past the stage where you mistake what they say for what I write?

> A lot of people are saying they gained insight about the world after those trips,
Uh huh. And a few of them are actually right.

>why does it take licking a tree root to experience that
Because it gives you a completely different vantage point.

>>14757176
See >>14757168

>>14757187
I don't care what other people on youtube speak about and how pious and selfless they sound. They're simply animals making noises into a microphone. Speech and ideology and spirituality is just wind whistling through leaves.

>>14757178
Why do you keep thinking that I'm implying you've said these things

If psychedelics demonstrate anything it's that they consistently get a certain subgroup of people extremely mad and annoyed whenever they are mentioned or talked about.

>>14757220
What's the subgroup?

>>14757223
Probably the 2-5% raging materialists who have long since concluded that reductionism is the only epistemological tool that makes sense and now get mad whenever it is even remotely questioned

>>14757209
Then why are you confronting me about them? You seem to be suffering from legit psychosis. All I'm pointing out is that you're a mindless drone, so naturally, you are hostile to the idea of someone learning something about the world that goes beyond your programming.

>>14757237
lol sounds about right. I used to be one such raging materialist until the cracks started to show.
One thing was encountering a lot of religious people as I got older. I felt there had to be somehow a valid worldview that they had in their brains and they probably weren't just retards. Another was pondering the question "Why does reality exist?" in a loop until I discovered platonism and the idea of the transcendental existence of mathematical objects as an acceptable escape hatch from the echoey materialist cage. From there the sky was the limit.

>>14754431
NPC ngmi

>>14753966

Pedo

>>14757205
See >>14757168. Also reflect on your compulsion to reply over and over.

>>14757301
So if I was super chill, zen, selfless, and pious, I wouldn't feel the egotistic urge to reply, and would just go watch grass grow outside? Instead I'm stuck in karmic hell because of my ego?
At last I truly see...

>WHY DO I EXIST IN THE MATERIAL REALM?!? WHY CANT I JUST BE NOTHING UGH EXISTENCE IS SUFFERING MY EGO AND SENSE OF SELF ARE MAKING ME EXIST AND SUFFER HOW COULD THIS BE HAPPENING TO ME AAAAAAAAA-ACK

>>14757313
If you were anything more than a narcissistic normalnigger, what you're doing would seem as petty and boring to you as it does to the people you pretend to be like.

>>14757337
dude that''s fuckin deep bro
yo pass me that shit? i wanna hit it

>>14757337
On second thought, you're right. I'm completely serious. I'm going to smoke some weed and watch youtube reccomendations until I learn how to be zen and peaceful and enlightened and not feel any egotistic narcisstic impulses. I will be a better person. Thank you anon.

>>14757372
> I'm going to smoke some weed and watch youtube reccomendations until I learn how to be zen and peaceful and enlightened
That's what you did shortly before you showed up here. Go outside, nigger.

>>14757377
I'm outside. What do I do now?

>>14757404
Now stop posting.

>>14757085
Care to present some of those mathematical struggles relating to any of the given things listed? I assure you that you're completely wrong and you're spouting midwit garbage because you never took the time to learn those things properly.

>>14756967
>Have you ever actually thought about these issues for more than 5 minutes, read the literature, or sincerely asked yourself the questions
I did, and what you read are my sincere beliefs I've accumulated over the years. I opened that "paper" you linked and, as expected, the abstract already was written in a tabloid, yellow-press style. I skimmed the rest of it because I'm not interested in reading some lunatic. Just look at this paragraph and tell me you seriously think this is scientific in any way:

>Consider, for example, the kind of case where the NDEr accurately reports the conversation occurring in the waiting room while his or her body is unconscious in the operating room. There is no way for the relevant information, conveyed in sound waves or light waves, to travel from the waiting room, through corridors and up elevators, to reach the sense organs of the unconscious person. Yet the person wakes from the operation with the information. This kind of case-and there are lots of them-shows quite straightforwardly that there are nonphysical ways in which the mind can acquire information. Hence materialism is false.

Not even a citation to the experience in question. No, sorry, I'm not gonna play into your delusions. Have fun, avatarfaggot.

>>14755718
>>14756564
>>14756570
update i tried DMT again today in a lower dose and outdoors,
felt amazing connection to the world, everything became beautiful .. really gave the sense of a deep connection with nature .. much better experience than the last, no schizo chaos this time ... just took me to a peaceful state of bliss

>>14751644
Ego death is for those whose ego was way too big for their own good to begin with.

Psychedelics can be great in practice if you're problem solving and need to think outside the box, but you tripping about realms and experiences you consider impossible should just reveal to you just how rigid your own brain has become. It's basically the same effect college girls have when traveling around the world to "study". They come back telling you the exact same thing, how traveling enlightens and lets you understand the world in a way previously thought completely impossible. They're not even wrong about the new experiences, but considering the experiences so enlightening reveals more about their lack of imagination than the importance of traveling. For greater intellects it can be very fulfilling to experience such things in flesh, but it's not going to be something that you weren't able to comprehend before ever experiencing it.

Same goes for you and drugs. You were just so awfully locked into your patterns that breaking them with drugs feels like something impossible being done to you. I hope you at least understood to start working on not being such a flesh automaton while not on drugs

>>14756967
Pluto is not a planet retarded American

> uhm sweaty did you ever try psychedelics
> it literally transforms your worldview, your current worldview is pathetic to mine, how cute...
> I will live forever in this realm and there are elves there just like in my harry potter
> I will use this knowledge and enlightenment to rage call people NPCs on 4chan

>>14759778
If you do psychadelics there will probably be large ego of the egolessness for a lot of people and that's cringe. But it will seriously make you accept the fact that we don't know shit and that you'll never be able to explain or fully grasp what you experienced

>>14759734
That all sound reasonable and makes the whole trip thing seem a lot more mediocre than I imagined, based on the pychonaut anecdotes I have heard. Guess I was just listening equivalent of college girls on their overseas trips.

>>14757444
I am not going to derail this thread by engaging in a fruitless debate with a self evident fuckwit such as yourself. These issues were stated and they are self evident to anyone with a tertiary education and a reasonable brain.

>>14751377
>Psychedelics demonstrate without a shadow of doubt
I wouldn't go this hard on confirming anything but-

>that we are clueless about how the world really works
-I would agree that it gives an intuitive glimpse into the limits of perception and the unreliability of sensory information. Which yes, does indicate that science is likely not the ultimate end of understanding. I wouldn't say it's the only way to realize things like this but it does let you really feel it firsthand. To me its similar to the way in which deep meditation can let you feel the illusion of self and free will slipping up as you discover that your thoughts and decisions simply come to you, you don't directly control them.

>science is a little more than a cute, yet ultimately impotent attempt at controlling nature.
It has worked and will likely continue to work in controlling what our senses let us understand, anything beyond our perception and senses (and the senses of our instruments) will likely remain uncontrollable, assuming any such things impervious to increasingly sensitive devices exist. What I'm getting at here is that it probably barely makes a difference if we can't control things we don't even know exist, we are making good headway in controlling the world that we can experience.

>>14751377
> Uhmmm, my addiction isnt really an addiction because its good for my mind because... uhmm... it makes me... see things...

Thats the whole fucking point of psychodelics, they turn off areas of the brain that make reality make sense so reality stop making sense, you arent discovering anything new

>>14759988
You can't get addicted to psychedelics unless you're a fucking weirdo.

>>14759972
This is me again.
>>14759988
I'm not OP (nor am I a neuroscientist but I did a few units in college):
>they turn off areas of the brain that make reality make sense so reality stop making sense, you arent discovering anything new

Maybe, I have actually read a lot about how they work and what they do to your brain and they do kind of shut part of it down, the default mode network (only when taking a high dose).

However, this network is reformed with stronger connections than before the trip.

I tend to think of consciousness as your brain's simulation of the outside world based on the sensory data your organs feed to it. The default mode network has three main sections:

- dorsal medial subsystem: associated with theory of mind (the ability to estimate what others are thinking, their intent, and to be aware of what information they have) and your conceptions of other people

- medial temporal system: handles memories about yourself and runs 'simulations' of your future self, i.e. where you think about your own past and future

- functional hubs: where you process information about yourself, you can think of this as the part of the brain that process what you are, in every sense of that term, what your brain thinks about how you look, your status, your personality etc.

Shutting these sections down and reforming the neural pathways more intensely can potentially explain why people describe these profound epiphanies about themselves and their place in the world. Shutting them down also explains why some can experience 'ego death', where they feel their own identity melt away and like they are simply a thing in the universe rather than a persistent person or self.

Lastly:
> Uhmmm, my addiction isnt really an addiction because its good for my mind because... uhmm... it makes me... see things...
Psychedelics aren't generally addictive, that's not to say that you CAN'T become addicted to them-just that it generally doesn't happen.

>>14759972
>it gives an intuitive glimpse into the limits of perception and the unreliability of sensory information
In what way?

>>14760061
It is genuinely hard to verbalize the experiences without sounding like a lunatic or hippie if the other person hasn't experienced it themselves. To me the prospect of experiencing something that can't be easily compared to anything else was convincing enough to make me try them.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I personally experienced sensations that showed me how malleable and incorrect our senses can be. Things like hard surfaces feeling like thick liquids or feeling as though your point of reference is on the other side of the room, or everything appearing to be fractal or geometrically hyperbolic.

If I can experience those things by just altering the connections in my default mode network, who's to say that the things I'm experiencing in my natural state aren't also wrong in their own ways? Ways that I would never know, as that is the only way I can know reality to be. Aldous Huxley put it a lot more eloquently than I can.

Pair all of that with the temporary alleviation of selfhood and this intense focus on trivial detail and you are really set up to have some very interesting thoughts and ideas on your trip, at the very least. I personally use LSD about 3 times a year and try to read or watch something high brow, or just meditate and let my brain wander.

But look, I can see where people are coming from when they say that your brain glitching out from drugs isn't showing you anything insightful. I can agree to an extent, I don't think the machine elves are real or any shit like that, just that it offers a unique medium for introspection.

>>14759818
I already know we don't know shit, I don't know what people who did psychedelics be bring to the conversation except faggotry

>>14759818
I already know we don't know shit, I don't know what people who did psychedelics bring to the conversation except faggotry