/sci/ - Science & Math

The axioms are invented. The theorems they then prove are discovered.

>>14745378
Define mathematics. Is mathematics the relations in the universe that can be expressed in a systematic manner? Then math is discovered. Is mathematics the the expression of relations in the universe that can be expressed in a systematic manner? Then it’s invented.

>>14745378
the things it talks about is discovered
the tools to descibe them were invented

>>14745378
You can invent a chair and then discover novel ways of using it (like using it as a stepping stool). You discovered something about the chair despite it not being found in nature and being artificially made.

>>14745410
kek found plato

There may be something to this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_mathematics

It almost seems like the axioms can come after the object is founded, with many candidates.

>>14745378
recognized and expressed, stupid faggot

Yes

>>14745378
They are taken in bloody conquest!

>>14745378
Yes.

>>14745378
It depends on whether or not you add "with a computer" or "on the internet" to the end. Then it's invented and you have 20 years of government violence protecting you from somebody else profiting from your invention.

>>14745378
Discovery and invention are the same thing.
Inventing something is the same thing as discovering the idea.

>>14745384
thread/

>>14745378
Math is the language of value and language is either reasoned or rationalized rather than discovered or invented because it is abstract rather than something physically concrete that was created from various material sources.

>>14745410
Very well put

>>14745378
Math is discovered, notation is invented.

>>14745378
Kitty is adorable, I want to give him a love.

>>14745384
Axioms are definitions by themselves which are discovered

>>14747658
You can't discover something like a definition that doesn't physically exist, definitions are made up.

All inventions are discoveries but not all discoveries are inventions.
Properties of the universe under any axioms are discoveries which are mathematics

>>14745378
Mathematics is both a descriptor and also an underlying framework of reality, the math is always there whether you understand it or not, you just need to find a way to describe it in a way that makes sense and fits with all the other parts

>>14745378
discovered. the systems in which numbers are calculated, are inventions.

>>14745914
this cat needs to be put down asap. or thrown into the streets. it has an aggressive nature, and isnt worthy of procreating with a non aggressive cat. it isnt even worthy of being taken in and raised in a domestic setting.

>electricity was discovered
>things that use electricity were invented

>>14747668
Math is no more a reflection of any underlying framework of reality than any other semantic language, it is just another metaphor, a way to compress reality into approximate symbolic equivocations that can be preserved and communicated over space and time, but can never actually approach the complexity of reality itself.

>>14747679
bingo. math is a discovery. the methods used to conduct math, are inventions.

>>14747681
dude, stfu. its a simple yes or no question. no one is asking u to get deep or philosophical, u goddamn hipster

>>14747682
No, math is composed and formulated not discovered and invented.

>>14747683
There was no question at all, anon misspoke about the nature of math and I corrected them, math has nothing to do with the underlying nature of reality, it is just another abstract lens with which to observe reality through.

>>14747686
the ability to formulate and compose anything is a discovery in itself, meaning we already prebuilt with this function. the universe already comes prebuilt with certain eternally reoccurring measurements, therefore, the math used to program the universe was always there. the methods which we go about figuring this out, calculating it, etc, are and will always be inventions. smart ass.

>>14747688

>There was no question at all, anon misspoke about the nature of math and I corrected them


>OP: Is mathematics discovered or invented?

op didnt make a claim, he asked a question u retard. u arent that intelligent.

There are no inventions, only potential

>>14747698

...ok, God.

See me inventing bomblex numbers.
Definition: a bomblex number b(x,y)=x+y*bleem.
Addition: b(x,y)+b(v,w)=x+y*bleem+v+w*bleem=(x+v)+(y+w)*bleem=b(x+v,y+w)
Negation: -b(x,y)=-x-y*bleem=b(-x,-y)
Multiplication: z*b(x,y)=z*x+z*y*bleem=b(z*x,z*y)

>>14747700
shut up, nerd

>>14747699
Someone said that in /sci/ some time ago
Im just a copycat
or demigod i dont know

>>14747690
>the ability to formulate and compose anything is a discovery in itself
No, it is an act of imagination, not discovery.
Finding a new continent is a discovery, coming up with a word to call the new continent is not a discovery.

>the universe already comes prebuilt with certain eternally reoccurring measurements,
I don't know what that means, you don't know about the universe, you are only talking about your own human brain and its built in need to arbitrarily compare things through a variety of methods such as measurement so you can label how it relates to yourself.

Math is not an invention because it is not a physical thing, it is abstract and linguistic, you don't invent a book, you compose it.

philosophy is all about the ego. change my mind.

>>14747697
I wasn't replying to OP, I was replying to >>14747668.
OP implicitly made a claim that math is either discovered or invented when it is neither and the other anon made a claim that math has some fundamental truth about the underlying framework of reality which is also wrong.

>>14747700
bomblex like explosively complex?

I think it's invented for the exception if ratios like pi and phi

>>14747662
then just define a formal system that lets you define other system and its axioms, a metasystem. Thats it, now your axioms are discovered and not defined

>>14748150
What about the axioms of the metasystem

>>14745378
Integers discovered, set theory invented.

>>14745378
what a cute kitten, reminds me of mine own who when i found her she fit in the palm of my hand, then she had 4 kittens and then all them were gone.

>>14745378
Yes.

>>14745384
No axiom has ever proved anything; people discover ways to prove things using axioms.

>>14747707
Why?

>>14748150
you mean invent a formal system that lets you define other systems and its axioms?

>>14745384
did you discover that two parallel lines never meet?
that's bullshit.
you just assume it's correct and move on.

>>14752293
>you just assume it's correct and move on.
That's not a good way to do science.

>>14753251
Science is based on assumptions, the scientific method.
Worthless tranny

>>14753251
that's literally what axioms do, they are extremely simplistic to the point of being self-evident.

you can't prove two parallel lines never meet but it's too simple to be wrong most likely.

>>14753258
that's not what the scientific method does, it assumes but also it proves after it constructs a methodology to do it.

but I don't expect nazis to have a brain.

>>14747705
peak brainlet