/sci/ - Science & Math

The high pressure in the Starship propellant tanks improves raptor performance. The raptor engine is a full staged combustion pressure fed hybrid

>>14737738
hello thomas

>>14737745
Didn't Elon say the tank pressure is fairly low

inflatablechads... we won

>>14737738
The Starlink is Tuesday the 9th.

>>14737745
retard

>>14737796
Yes. Tank pressure is low few bars AFAIK.

>>14737834
Oh, right, different time zones.

>>14737262
How many different kinds of electric and magnetic experiments have been done outside the iss in 0 g free 'vacuum' space?

I understand the difficulty and danger and fear of such experiments possibly messing up machines and equipment or suit.

I'm curious as to how 2 or more very strong permenant magnets act on one another at decreasing distance; and if such field qualities in-between them can be detected or measured.

I'm thinking get like 10ft x 10ft x 10ft or so Plexiglass (or stronger material) box, with robot extendable arms that reach inside and set up materials for experiment,


Have an ability to unscrew so there are 2 holes at either end (capability for particular experiments); clamp down a wire running through, attatch sensors on either end, get the robot arms In center to try to induce electricity on the wire.

Try all sorts of things with fire and electricity and gasses in there.

Different metals and liquids and gas, and wires and rotating powerful magnets.

I want to see how different the strength of strong magnets might be in (0g) outer space vacuum.

Ok I think I get that electricity is not atoms jumping great distances but just moving into one another, so electricity would not jump from a wire to another across vacuum, even at short distance.

Is there any other possible mysterious materials and forces and effects and experiments that could be done in such a feasible 0g 'vacuum' set up?

Lasers, gasses, crystals, fire, phase transition suspended, magnetic sphere enclosure with cameras on the inside, electron microscopes, mini explosions, oscilators, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrc632oilWo
real engineering tours Spinlaunch

>>14737871
so how do you think vacuum tubes work?

>>14737809
Whats the inflatable for? What are inflatables only draw back? They can deflate or pop?

>>14737882
Don't know, electrons pass through them? Pressure in them is altered like a pulse?

Lights frequency is purely passed through them? No clue

>>14737896
>Don't know, electrons pass through them?
well that's true but since we can establish on earth that particles can be exchanged in a vacuum i'm not sure how doing it in space would make a difference.

spaceflight has become less exciting. the novelty has worn off. it is now just another part of life, no different than airplanes, the internet, and the automobile.

At what point do you expect asteroid mining to become economically viable?
Not necessarily a highly profitable venture, but one which is realistic and can be engaged in for a prolonged period of time.
Keep in mind, we already have the vast majority of the technology necessary to do so, it's simply too expensive and not efficient enough. With Starship driving down deep space launch costs enormously, will that have an impact?

>>14737912
I'm just wondering if there's a difference, mainly I geuss between strong permenant magnet activity, field interaction/strength than on earth.

I want to better understand in what way magnetic fields may actually exist in and through out outer space.

How much farther or stronger or lesser they might interact without atmosphere in the way.

Different allign ments of magnets, in proximity forming different shapes, and movements of them, oscilations, detections, rotations same and different directions same and different speeds, analyzing the surrounding environment and local environment alone and with test charges and lasers and prisms,

How does "electromagnetic field",
How does "magnetic field"
(What is "magnetic field"),
Exist, entirely surrounding all planetery boundries?

Is there a leaping of parts from the magnets bodies?

What is actually happening in between magnets bodies in free space. Is there actually "SomeStuff" that when 2 strong permenant magnets in free space are brought nearer and nearer one another, "SomeStuff" interacts with the bodies of the magnets, to make them crawl towards one another, gripping the bubbling "SomeStuff" in-between them, until there is ~0 distance between the magnets bodies?

>>14737954
never unless some extra rare element is discovered in some asteroid

>>14737954
whenever the cost of manufacturing solar panels from asteroid/lunar silicon becomes less than the cost of launching prefab solar panels into orbit

>>14737954
Time a coming asteroid years out, travel to it for years, land on it, mine while catching a ride to earth, hop off within what a year or less as it gets near earth Travel a year or so back to earth?

Or what? Fire missiles at it, or TNT. Bombs, blow it and send drone ships to collect big chunks of explode rock and haul them to the moon or mars?

Or a quicker mining uperation of the first one?

They had those asteroid hoppers,;

What if there are large drone boulder collectors as a possibility of exploding chunks off asteroid.

Or those hoopers that land and hook into the ground; a big saw drill on their underside, pretty much a mosquito sucking blood, but a lander sucking asteroid material.
Make 100 of these drill chip cut blast landers, the loosen up a big chunk of the asteroid, and collect it in their hull under belly, they hop either back to earth, or a mother ship, which gets the ship meant of the builders and chunks, after a drop off, the hooper is sent right back.

This can be done with 100 hoopers and 10 mother ships, or more and less

>>14737973
What is the breakdown for estimates of any possible interesting materials to be found in any of the noted or possibly detected possibly coming near asteroids?

How far away is the nearest asteroid belt?

>>14737954
Initially, it'll be when the cost of mining and refining the ore and shipping the metal back to Earth drops below the cost to do the same here at home. Starship will lay the foundations, but the economics of the product just aren't there yet no matter what the launch costs are. As long as we can get copper and rare earth metals cheaper on Earth asteroid mining isn't going to be a thing. Once that threshold gets crossed mining more common materials to help support and expand the mining of rarer metals will take off pretty quickly.

>>14737983
How are all the different metals mined from earth rocks? How do they get so many exact metals so sepeareated from one another and rocks?

You just heat all rocks you find incredibly hot, and eventually metal sievely leaks out? And different metals will naturally stack up like different densities oil and water?

But there are some over laps which is how it may be hard to make pure purities?

The amount of various kinds of metals are extraordinary, how much steel and aluminum and cooper exists and is available.

What if you melt down rocks or crush them and shake them maybe and get all the metal bits and it's a liquid mix of many metals, and then that hardens, they don't seperate then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9uNjVnLIvo
So this interview just wrapped up. A bunch of pretty insignificant notes:
>Next step for first launch is 20 second static fire, then full mission duty cycle on the first stage before integration
>Ellis is committed to making Terran the first he sees fly. He was at the Cape for the Atlas-Falcon double header last week but purposely looked away.
>Mentions Neutron with a derisive tone, implying that they're trying to appease investors
>Will "prioritize" Terran R but no plans to kill Terran 1 due to its "huge market"
>Considered Terran 1 reuse but won't
>Recognizes that there's more market for R than 1
>5% dry mass penalty
>Not planning on building satellites
>Is friends with Casey Handmer
>Impulse mission is light enough to fly R reusable, but won't
>No clear answer on how they'll accommodate both rockets at LC-16
>RTLS and downrange recovery for R first stage
>RTLS harder with wider diameter due to shockwaves, thinks they couldn't RTLS at a much larger size
>Second stage propulsive landing, refuses to elaborate
>Aeon R gas generator built, will be tested soon
>"definitely going to be the first to succeed on the first launch" (possible I misheard this one)
>Won't print pad infrastructure
>"cut off and reprint" when flaws occur
>"A few weeks" to launch. Date will be announced after completion of stage 1 testing
>Sounds like the Terran R reusability campaign will be similar to Falcon's?

all those are smaller issues than you think. Releasing the rocket and opening the hatches at the right time is almost trivial compared to figuring out how to open the valves on a rocket engine to make it work

>>14737973
It might not be an element, it could be something weirder like nuggets of strange matter trapped in their centre. In Larry Nivens stories asteroid mining was galvanized by discovering magnetic monopoles out there.

Why did someone say there was 0% chance of finding pockets of gas under the surface of Mars?

Is there lava under mars?

How far deep on average are pockets of gas found under earths surface?

And what is it thought Mars strata ranges of material make up is?

Earth pretty much has every interesting element you can want? And its not about molecules, as long as you get elements you can put them together however you may?

Or some semi uniform clusters of molecules are found and utilized, but earth has plenty of all that are needed, and mars would likely just have the same?

>>14738019
Could mars have some life form organism in it's mud or something that if brought back to earth could interact badly?

>>14737809
Isn't that the inflatable low density hypersonic decelerator that NASA tested then quietly shelved because it turned out it produced such a large wake of turbulence that it made it impossible to use parachutes with

>>14737957
This si not the place to ask such basic questions. Use google and get the fuck out of this thread.

>>14738029
this one is launching in november

>>14737993
Terrestrial mining is a bit more complicated than just ‘heating rocks up’. Thermal separation often plays a role at some point in the process, but a lot of work is done chemically, especially for things like rare earth metals. Space mining will likely lean more into thermal work than chemical, since heat is easy to get while shipping 5000 tons of sulphuric acid out to the belt is a hassle no one wants.

The metallic content of some asteroids presents metals in concentrations and purities that can be unmatched in any remaining terrestrial sources. The problem is that all of that ore is stuck out in deep space and shipping costs, esp. for the tonnage of mining equipment that would be required to get at them, are a real bitch that make the whole venture unprofitable (so far). That’s really the key problem: metals on Earth might be awkward to get but they’re so much closer making the round trip to mine them in space isn’t worth the trouble, even for very rare materials.

Steel and aluminum are VERY common elements on Earth. Finding new deposits or developing more efficient ways to refine current sources is virtually assured to be cheaper than going for extraterrestrial sources. Extraterrestrial steel and aluminum will be used to build things in space.

Copper might be one to watch. Our current copper mines are chasing ores with rather low Cu concentrations, and the economics of copper are currently bad enough that it’s profitable for people to break into empty houses and tear the plumbing out of the walls to sell as scrap. Extraterrestrial copper isn’t profitable yet but it might not be that far off.

Shipping back chunks of semi-refined metals is a possibility. Refining on Earth is always going to be cheaper that doing the same in space, because if you do the work here you don’t need to worry about the costs of shipping it and the people who run it all the way out there.

once a adequate asteroid is found it is deorbited and processed on Earth

>>14737954
Asteroid mining will be immediately profitable to a Mars colony that has advanced to the point of having its own home grown launch industry (which will not take long, since point to point rocket transport will be the fastest and least infrastructure intensive method of getting around Mars, and accessing orbit around Mars is easy). The first "asteroid" they mine will be Phobos, and it will be for simple building materials like extruded basalt fibers, silicon, aluminum, steel, nickel, etc. The technologies they develop for making super low gravity resource extraction and refining practical will directly transition to allowing them to mine any Sun-orbiting asteroid, and the resources they produce from mining Phobos and Deimos will simultaneously allow them to build very very large rotating spacecraft that can support crews of dozens and even hundreds for many years at a time, which will act as mobile habitats and industrial centers for getting out to, exploring, and mining those asteroids. The first of these will likely focus on finding useful precious metals like platinum, as Mars will be heavily focused on improving its mastery and capability with many chemical manufacturing processes which require catalysts. The mining and transport infrastructure having been paid for by Mars for Mars, it's likely that at that point it would be profitable for these ventures to sell their products to Earth. Much of these products in terms of dollars would be precious metals, but it's likely that the majority in value and the supermajority in volume will be structural metals like iron and nickel, for use in Cislunar space rather than on Earth itself. The Moon would be a good source of those materials too but a pre-existing asteroid belt mining industry could still end up being cost competitive simply due to the fact that a steel tether a hundred kilometers long attached to a typical rotating asteroid would be able to fling material onto an Earth free capture for very cheap.

Given the current economic direction of successful companies, space tourism is unironically the only hope for a sustained space presence

>>14737993
Ask google.

>>14738059
a sino-american war would do orders of magnitude more good for the industry than richfags sitting in orbital cuck cans for a week

>>14737995
>5% dry mass penalty
It's over.

>>14737996
Spinlaunch will never achieve lower cost to orbit than contemporary industry standard launch systems.

>>14737995
>"definitely going to be the first to succeed on the first launch" (possible I misheard this one)
He seemed optimistic but did say that most rockets find a way to SSLV on their first launch

>>14737998
That shit is so fringe that it's not worth considering at all. Also, those "nuggets of strange matter" would have a gravitational pull so extreme at their surface that it should rapidly compress any normal atoms around it and collapse that atomic matter into more ultradense strange matter. The energy released by this process should immediately melt, vaporize, and blow apart any object composed of typical atomic matter very promptly.

>>14738019
>>14738023
Ask google.

>>14738083
no

>>14738073
I remember when the goalpost was they it can't work

>>14737996
It also uses a rocket, you fucking retard

>>14738042
Did they mention anything about a solution to the turbulence problem?

>>14738043
>Copper
Peak copper is an overblown issue because it's not actually vital in most applications, it's just better than using aluminum conductor. The moment that copper gets expensive enough that the efficiency losses of an aluminum wound motor or aluminum wires stop mattering, industries will switch to aluminum for those applications. Copper is vitally important as a micronutrient in humans and many other species, but it's called a micronutrient for a reason, and it's not like it actually gets used up. Basically whatever mass of copper you have tells you what your maximum biosphere mass can be, if copper happens to be your limiting factor in the first place.

>>14738059
>render includes Starships
>but also uses like 24 dreamchasers as escape pods
I hate retarded midwit space construction project proposals so much it's unreal

>>14738091
Multiple human beings with multiple opinions exist, crazy right? Also, I don't believe it will work at all either, but even if I'm wrong about it working, it will not achieve economics better than conventional rockets with reusable stages.

>>14737995
Reminder that meme rocket printing CEO is a member of the small clique of rootless cosmopolitans, jet-setting dual passport holders, Internationale elite of usurers, small hat wearing chicken swingers.
His sole purpose is to drain government gibs.

>>14738099
lol yeah, spinlaunch is inherently more complex and difficult than pure rocket launch, because it has every single difficult bit to do with pure rocket launch, except it's also spin launch.

Astra fired NSF and so now NSF is crawling back to Relativity. How ironic.

>>14738120
Correct however, check out this static fire, don't you feel like investing? It's blue
https://twitter.com/relativityspace/status/1552703471802953728?s=21&t=o7dhzJc2QMFn809gtfG8Dg

>>14738123
Is that what irony is? I don't fucking know at this point, it's too far gone along the process of definition shifting.

>>14738123
Or Astra couldn't afford NSF anymore. Shelling out anything to hire a youtube crew might not be in the cards when you need every last cent just to keep the lights on until you get to your last launch opportunity.

>>14738120
early life says nothing, got a source?

>>14738036
learn to recognize the retard and stop responding to him.

>>14738043
>>14738166

>>14738140
do you think nsf divested tgeir $ASSTR holdings?

>Is Leviathan a feasible idea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMcsWbfHTpY

>>14738175
yes it is.

>>14737995
>Mentions Neutron with a derisive tone, implying that they're trying to appease investors
If they actually get it built, it'll fit nicely into the niche left over from Antares.
Because climate isn't that great with Russia regarding engines from Energomash and Russia just about leveled Ukrainian aerospace industry, so Yuzmash won't be building anything anytime soon.

>>14738191
It's also not great for the ISS and SpaceX or ULA could end up launching Cygnigger before Neutron leaves the paper

>>14738191
Yuzmash wasn't building all that much to begin with. For having such a big aerospace industry Moscow did a really through job of keeping the important parts of space launch on the Russian side of the line.

And everyone is trying to appease investors right now. The current surge of space-related companies had been fueled by low information investment types desperately trying to find the next SpaceX. Unless Relativity is self-funded they're not any different.

>>14738205
The government pays premium for redundancy, even if it isn't a perfect fit.

>>14738212
They built the core stage. While a core isn't like reinventing the wheel, producing shit is not just flipping a switch and the assembly line goes GACHUNK. Tooling and all that shit is a fucking nightmare that takes time.

>>14737996
All of those are bigger issues than you think

>You have to blast your way to orbit in minutes rather than slowly building up speed over a week because...LOOK YOU JUST DO OK!!
lmao

>>14737995
>Is friends with Casey Handmer
Absolutely devastating

>>14737738
>Multiple SpinLaunch facilities shooting multiple payloads a day
>Multiple orbiting SkyHooks snatching payloads out of LEO in a high stakes crane game
>Materials now cheaply available for space habitats and interstellar railways to the Lagrange point and Luna.

There you go space bros, I just turned humanity into a space based species. You know your false idol and head scam artist Elon Musk won't get it done with boomer rockets. You can't live in denial forever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_(structure)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinLaunch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver

>>14738218
>what is gravity losses

>>14738059
What are the limitations of building an ISS that is 3 or 4 times or more bigger, that is decorated nicer, and made as a bar/restaurant/casino/brothel, for earths multim millionaires, and winner of the buy in lottery?

Make one station like that for tourism revenue, and another station the same size for science,

>>14738214
Hence why ULA still gets national security launches regardless of cost. It's a reaching assumption that Neutron is intended to replace Antares because it will launch out of the same place and the cost shouldn't be extraordinary. The other new space companies building medium lift rockets are likely also interested in resupply but it makes more sense to partner with CLD stations because the ISS is a corpse.

chair_clattering.webm

>>14737954
What would be the best way to do it? Precision mining on-site, or just sawing off a few hundred tons and taking it to LEO for processing?

>>14738175
Where does it store all the mysterious ground samples and life forms for analysis?

kill yourself

will elon ever consider spinlaunching starship into orbit? it seems way less complex than the chopsticks and he won't have to worry about super heavy static fires ravaging the launch site

>>14738252
Different landers try different options?

Is it possible for rovers/drones to grab what is being mined and load a ship?

And when they feel they got enough; send in big Boulder collectors, that blasts are dropped to break off large chunks, that are tried to get gotten.

It's going to be hard to establish a minitool firmly into the asteroid, to give it leverage digging and not float away, or no?

>>14738267
Depends on the rock. Some are basically chunks of iron, but most are basically just floating balls of gravel.

>>14738272
>>14738166

>>14738243
Irrelevant

>>14738245
Funding
Money
Currency

>>14737871
Stop spamming this and start hanging yourself

>>14738175
Yup, active cooling solves the main problem (heat) and big power supply afforded by big mass satisfies the requirements for active cooling. This is what we mean when we say throwing mass at the problem usually solves the problem.

3 launches schedule for tomorrow. it should put us at 100 launches for the year.

At a certain point, sooner than you think, EARTHERS will ban private shipments of fuel and engines outside the gravity well due to the threat of redirected asteroids.

>>14738361
I don't give a FUCK what earthers think

>>14738361
(((Earthers))) get the rope

>>14738366
hmmm
a skyhook that dips down to sea level and has a noose on the earth-end

>>14738259
Very Thunderbirds-esque.

>>14738406
for me its SHADO

>>14738361
astroCHUDS have to stop wasting precious earth resources for their pointless white male supremacist space colonialist fantasies

spinlaunch

>>14738468

>>14738218
>renting a launcher for a week instead of buying a flight on a vehicle that can launch five times a day
enjoy the heat as you burn that cash, buddy

>>14738251
>when you do literally anythng possible to ensure your reusable spaceplane has a huge non-reusable, complex and expensive trunk on the ass end that gets destroyed after every mission
good design guys! I wonder why it was never built?

look at the poster count
then realize the schizo has changed his ip at least 5 times

>>14738361
>e*rthers ban private launch of propellants
>gainstation CHADS attach tethers to asteroids and use them as mini space elevators to lift material and assemble it into a bag of rock 1% as massive as the original asteroid, then cut the tether at the correct moment to toss the bag of rocks at earth
>this process is repeated until Earth lacks the capacity to project any power whatsoever into space
>space chads get their propellants from Mars and Ceres anyway
lol urf seething

>>14738484
When Orbital Airship is operational no one will send humans into space any other way. It will literally be a crime to put people in rockets when something safer exists.

>>14738058
Why are you assuming mars is a barren wasteland.

>>14737993
You grind it down to a powder, wash it with enormous amounts of water and go from there. Sometimes its magnets, sometimes its centrifuge, sometimes you add specific chemicals to bind to your target and make a froth that you can then reverse chemical reaction to get the element back.
And you have byproducts (copper mines often have silver in there) in all of this so you do one or two together for separate elements.

>>14737954
In a free market economy its simply when it becomes profitable to mine in space. There could be situations when space mines and earth mines can co exist with space mines delivering to space and earthers delivering to earthers.
There could be situations where space mines are the only viable source of an element. There could be situations where risk premium for earthers mines exceed the cost of mining in space so you would rather just get the platinum from asteroids than having critical dependency on south african niggers or vatnics.
The possibilties are endless, only prices can dictate if your space mining is viable or not.

Reminder that urf will try to militarize the shit out of every extraterrestrial settlement and will heavily suppress any kind of positive attitude towards separatism. Musk will comply, willingly or not.

>>14738526
Spacex will get its own military
They will become weyland yutani

>>14738526
Emphasis on "try".

clothespinlaunchained

>>14738543
> thinks he's gonna be a rugged pioneer from a Western instead of a neuralinked servitor biobot
lmao

>>14738540
>Spacex will get its own military
god, I wish

Friendly reminder that nuclear space propulsion is happening this decade.

>>14738526
We will throw rocks at them.

>>14738540
>>14738555
Will?

>>14738540
Spacex (and tesla, and every other earth-based company) is going to be dwarfed by the economic entity that arises from lunar industry

>>14738562
le rock throwing meme
>“Uh—” I started to round off in head. Mike’s “head” works faster; he answered, “The concussion of a hundred-tonne mass on Terra approaches the yield of a two-kilotonne atomic bomb.”
2 kilotons? Oh what a doomsday weapon!

>>14738236
>SpinLaunch
Is 1000g good for you?

>>14738564
This shit looks pretty cool

>>14738576
throw the moon at them when they're not looking

>>14738588
settle down Thanos

>>14738563
Unfriendly reminder that any realistic NTP design is a meme and devoid of a sensible purpose.

>>14738588
No. The Moon belongs to the Martian people, we'll move it out of urf's gravity well one day. They can have Phobos or Deimos, a direct 30 km/s special delivery for them as a gift.

>>14738576
Yes not that massive
HOWEVER
A tungsten jacketed boulder, launched from a mass driver is a whole lot cheaper than an ICBM loaded with a nuclear warhead.
It would be economically feasible to launch millions of such rocks for the cost of only a few ICBMs.

>>14738600
the USSF wants it to dominate cislunar space but they'd be better off doing laser thermal rockets

>>14738608
mass driver would be nuked quickly, too fragile

>>14738600
Good thing that image isn't a realistic NTP mission profile.

>>14738611
Setting aside that a laser for even a tiny craft would be far larger than anything ever made, laser thermal is great if you are fine with only being able to thrust when your craft is overhead of the ground station.

>>14738615
so build more ground stations bfd

>>14738618
it's not that easy

>>14738615
>only being able to thrust when your craft is overhead of the ground station.
The true endgame is using the energy of a star to create the propulsion beam.

>>14738621
this is why spinhab chads will rule the stars; if planetcucks get uppity they get boiled

>>14738625

>>14738540
Musk will become the emperor of mankind. His sons will subjugate earth with their 1000+ warships

>>14738615
>Good thing that image isn't a realistic NTP mission profile.
>Posts an image that includes the same mission profile
Okay, which one of those clusterfuck profiles do you want to try and defend in addition to the ludicrous implication that there should be an opposition Mars transfer mission in 2039+? Actually I'd rather not have this pointless debate again that ignores the existence of SpaceX and conjunction transfers.

>>14738576
How much in kt was this?

>>14738618
>giant 100 MW laser for only 1000kg of cargo

Perseverance had nearly 4x the launch mass of that 45 days to Mars competition winner and didn't require a power plant for a modest sized city.

>>14738634
you can use the laser thermal tug to accelerate a much greater mass on a Hohmann transfer so your complaint is invalid

>>14738634
Just make better lasers. Whats the problem

ARTEMIS LAUNCHING IN 5 MINS TO THE MOON
ARTEMIS LAUNCHING IN 5 MINS TO THE MOON
ARTEMIS LAUNCHING IN 5 MINS TO THE MOON

https://youtu.be/1vOHVgaCorM

>>14738650
nuh uh

>>14738631
>At around 23:30 (15:30 UTC), the first explosion occurred and registered as a magnitude 2.3 earthquake,[16] generating seismic shock-waves energetically equivalent to 2.9 tonnes of TNT. After 30 seconds, a second, much more powerful explosion occurred, causing most of the damage and injuries with shock-waves felt many kilometres away. The second explosion registered as a magnitude 2.9 earthquake and generated seismic shock-waves with energy equivalent to 21.9 tonnes of TNT.[17][18][19] The resulting fireballs reached hundreds of meters in height.[20] Around 23:40 (15:40 UTC) on 15 August, a series of eight smaller explosions occurred in the port as fire from the original blasts continued to spread.[21][22][23] The total energy release was equivalent to 28 tonnes of TNT, or 100GJ.

The explosion was large enough to be photographed by Himawari, a geostationary meteorological satellite operated by the Japan Meteorological Agency (JMA).[24] Chinese scientists subsequently estimated that the second more powerful explosion involved the detonation of about 800 tonnes of ammonium nitrate, based on crater size and lethality radius (336 tons TNT equivalent, based on relative effectiveness factor of 0.42).[4]

So 0.336 kt

>>14738650
it's over muskrats, maybe the real starship were the friends we made along the way

>>14738630
>the mission profile that is an entire year less time off Earth
>ludicrous

Anon you need to try harder. But if you insist then the one that requires the least launches (and uses the cheapest launch vehicle) is easily the best choice. Almost makes one wonder if your selection of the most excessive profile was intentional.

>>14738638
Yes you could increase the launch mass, you would also not have the delta V of the 45 days to Mars competition winner (and wouldn't get to Mars in 45 days).

>>14738654
2kt looks a lot more intimidating then, especially if rocks are raining ever couple hours.
In the book, they struck Cheyenne Mountain enough times to scour it down to the desert floor, just because they could.

>>14738657
>4+1 SLS launches, 2 New Glenn launches, 4 Starship launches
>is easily the best choice
It's a choice that makes your poor argument even more absurd because it means Starship would already be a success and SpaceX would likely have a colony on Mars at that point, which could do a return in the same conjunction transfer window.

>>14738670
>SpaceX would likely have a colony on Mars at that point,

Anon, Starship is an incredibly important rocket that will reshape the industry but you lose any credibility your arguments would have had with such claims.

>>14738678
Okay, you're right. NASA will beat SpaceX to Mars in 2039+, shaving few months off the total trip time so they can do a 30 days flags and footprints mission is superior to setting up a colony, and this has nothing do with a certain amount of autism inclined towards nuclear thermal in the face of any reason. Now we ever discuss this subject again, it will be too soon.

https://youtu.be/1vOHVgaCorM

>>14738678
SLS can only be had once every 2 years for this decade. Maybe once a year in 2030s. If thats the case, the earliest you can get the contraption with 5 SLS will be 2035, but realistically, early-mid 2040s.

Meanwhile, if we go by a conservative estimate on Starships Mars launch capability as being 2030, then that means, they'll have atleast 5-10 years leg up on SLS launch profiles. SpaceX wont just be sending one at a time, they'll send multiple at a time, maybe not the first time, but the next couple of windows will have that. By 2040s, Starship would have carried 1+ million ton to Mars. 1000-10000+ ton to Mars. Thats enough to start building a small colony.

>>14738690
>shaving few months

Anon, you just keep digging that hole.

>>14738695
>If thats the case, the earliest you can get the contraption with 5 SLS will be 2035

Artemis 14 will be in 2036, which leaves another ~3 years for the 2039 conjunction.

>>14738613
Can current ICBMs even reach the moon? Or, I guess that would definitionally make them IPBMs.

>>14738695
>if we go by a conservative estimate on Starships Mars launch capability as being 2030

Sending people to Mars only 4 years after the first Starship takes people to the Moon is not what most people would call a conservative estimate.

>>14738519
>Why are you assuming mars is a barren wasteland.
I didn't, I'm just assuming platinum group metals will be annoyingly unommon on Mars for similar reasons that they are uncommon on Earth, and due to the low cost of access to orbit it will make sense for Mars people to use their preexisting understanding of super low gravity industrial mining and processing technology to just pop out to the closest metallic asteroid and use it as a source for those materials.

>>14738702
You could use the booster stack to launch a vehicle into orbit which would then travel to the Moon under its own power.

>>14738693
based

>>14738708
Sure it is. That's 2 Mars transfer cycles. In those two years, SpaceX could send 2-6 Starships to deploy their first base, comlinks, etc. By 2030, they could deploy the 2-4 Starships with <50 humans. By 2032, that could double, and so on.

Its not like they're going to only send 2-4 people to Mars and not do anything.

>>14738576
>choose small rock
>get small explosion
That's why we'd throw big rocks, anon.

>>14738584
One thousand g? Spinlaunch is ten thousand gees, anon.

>>14738613
Mass driver where 99.99% of its length is buried under 100 meters of loosely packed regolith would be immune to all but the biggest nuclear weapons, anon. No atmosphere to confine the bomb means that even if it gets detonated on the surface the regolith absorbs the shock and protects the mass driver.

>>14738715
>In those two years, SpaceX could send 2-6 Starships to deploy their first base, comlinks, etc.

2 years ago anons thought Starship would already be in service. You need to learn how to translate Musk time.

>>14738618
Why go to Mars in 45 days when you can go in 5 months without needing a giant laser to be bought and paid for first

Spinlaunch is a cute meme. Railguns are the future.

>>14738724
Musk doesn't operate in linear fashion like NASA does.

SpaceX has 2000+ satellites in orbit in just 2 years. Where every other operator could only dream of launching 1 in the same time frame. NASA would be extactic to be able to launch 1 SLS in 10 years, SpaceX launches 100 Falcon 9 during the same time period.

Short term delays don't translate to long term issues. Failing to ride a bike on the first time doesn't mean you're forever stuck on training wheels in your little neighborhood block.

>>14738695
Colony was a poor choice of words on my part, really they just need ISRU refueling which will be one of the first things they set up.
>>14738699
You're being disingenuous once again and no one is buying your bullshit despite your claims that I'm digging a hole despite that your argument has been narrowed down just to this. The minimum duration for a conjunction mission is not 950 days. If you had the NTR you suggested it would still make more sense to use the extra delta-v on leaving late in the first window and then returning early in the second.

>>14738708
>Sending people to Mars only 4 years after the first Starship takes people to the Moon
If Starship sends people to the Moon, that means it works, refueling in orbit works, and it's cheap and rapidly reusable enough to actually perform that mission architecture. Over the subsequent four years you'd have one Mars window in which you can send a group of unmanned Starships to Mars to attempt landings (could send a dozen or more and stagger their trajectories to make them arrive a week apart to tweak software between landing attempts), not to mention the couple hundred or so Starlink and commercial payload launches to orbit to build operations confidence with, plus more Moon missions to work out potential issues in the life support system. 4 years to go from human Starship Moon landings to human Starship Mars landings is not unreasonable. It's optimistic, yes, but it's not absurdly so. I put more trust in that happening than I do in SLS ever reaching its supposed cost target of $700 million/launch.

>>14738724
>>14738729

Realistically, how long until commercial starship launches/until starship is commercially ready

I’m guessing 2024, probably gonna have to spend much of 2023 in development maybe even half of 2024

>>14738731
>If you had the NTR you suggested it would still make more sense to use the extra delta-v on leaving late in the first window and then returning early in the second.
Correct, or even more likely, just pack more shit and still take the 5 month outbound coast and 5 month inbound coast periods.

>>14738762
Next year will be launching commercial(non-starlink/non-spacex) paylaods.

>>14738762
Realistically? Starlink is a commercial payload and it's going up on the first launch.

>>14738668
>we stop targeting cheyenne mountain
>why?
>it's fuckin gone m8
That book got some genuine gut-buster laughs from me

>all this talk about what great things SS will surely achieve
>pad infrastructure shits itself
>booster shits itself
>tiles falling off
>OFT delays every month or so
>hasn't even flown the booster yet
>definitely *won't* explode during reentry
>number of OFT's required for success uncertain

First orbit Q3 2023, first payload Q1 2024

>>14738758
elon musk is a sigma male CONFIRMED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEN2Omq9mwk

Has anyone actually done the math on dropping passive rocks on urfers? I bet it requires terminal guidance.

>>14738731
Amazing that you keep going despite me being kind enough to link the pdf where this image came from.

>>14738693
>SLS forever and forever 100 years, SLS
>SLS time all day long forever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gtc4DHYvc0

>>14738772
So you admit it will work.

>>14738776
Mike used big steel cans full of rock, with some cold-gas (I think) thrusters for final adjustments

>>14738776
>I bet it requires terminal guidance.
Not if you're dropping a big enough rock.

>>14738776
>terminal guidance
Not really, it's all ballistic. And with a big enough explosion you don't need to care about accuracy anyway.

This was the nuclear strategy the Soviets had. Just make the yield bigger so you can still hit the target if you miss.

>>14738777
That graphic proves him right, you know.

>>14738788
Everything works with enough time, but the timescale is too short for half of the things promised

>>14738799
Except it doesn't.

>>14738777
>Just build a NTR with 60 km/s of dV, bro
Funny you deliberately cut off the part that says the Y axis is delta-v and the graph uses propulsive capture instead of direct entry like Starship so a true comparison wasn't given. Actually, it's not funny, it's sad. You've spent dozens of hours desperately shilling for something that will never happen.

>>14738812
>Funny you deliberately cut off the part that says the Y axis is delta-v

Anon, you do realize that hiding the delta V requirement hurts the argument for NTP right? The whole point of NTP, as you demonstrate in that graph, is it being capable of far more delta V than a traditional chemical engines which is why it enables the significantly shorter duration missions.

>>14738819
No, you cut it off because it shows that chemical propulsion can do opposition transfers rendering your point moot and as (>>14738812) shows the "significantly shorter duration mission" of NTP is actually only ~4 months at the same mass. Now you want to further move the goal posts to 'stupidly high dV opposition transfers', yes that could only be done by NTP but that's not what any of the architectures have suggested, with DRA 5.0 being 650 days and payload obviously being a bigger priority than your autistic nonsensical fantasies.

>>14738771
Mike really did have a good sense of humor, or at least the stirrings of one.

>Bobik (Бoбик, common Russian name for a small dog) ran away just days before his flight was scheduled to take place on 15 September 1951. A replacement named ZIB (ЗИБ, a Russian acronym for "Substitute for Missing Bobik", "Зaмeнa Иcчeзнyвшeмy Бoбикy" Zamena Ischeznuvshemu Bobiku), who was an untrained street dog found running around the barracks, was quickly located and made a successful flight to 100km and back.

>>14738879
vaya con Dios, Mike

>>14738882
based ZIB taking the opportunity
>captcha: SWAGW

>>14738882
It's been 45 years since the last time dogs were in space. How much of a circus would it be to get dogs back into space by 2026 for the 50th anniversary of Ugolyok and Veterok

>>14738905
>It's been 45 years since the last time dogs were in space
It has been precisely 0.0 seconds.

>>14738973
Didn't know pigs went to space too

>>14738988
We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink the milk and eat those apples.

>>14738988
https://a.uguu.se/EktMRkp.webm

How long?

>>14738995
Mr. Jones is coming back to whoop ass and make bacon

What willl NASA/SpaceX do with used landers? It would be a crime to waste that volume.

>>14738066
Elaborate.

>>14738747
>(could send a dozen or more and stagger their trajectories to make them arrive a week apart to tweak software between landing attempts)
Would this really be feasible? It feels like your bandwidth would be way too small to get data back from a Starship, use it to create better landing software, and reupload it to other Starships in time.

>>14739107
It's not. SpaceX won't waste so many Starships.

>>14739090
it's like wanting elaboration on whether world war i was good for airplanes. launch demand on both sides for already-developed capabilities like recon and early warning and commsats would easily 10x (and way more than that for flexible launch capabilities like quick cadences). that's to say nothing of all the money that'd go into satellite interception/kinetic kill and then counter-interception measures like improved propulsion systems.

>>14738905
pitbulls in space when?

>>14739090
military needs would create massive production capacities for the latest technology that would trickle down afterwards
before WWI (and Henry Ford), car and plane was the equivalent of helicopter and orbital rocket today
only very rich could afford a car (typically with a chauffeur) and most militaries could only afford like 2 dozens of armored cars and a handful of planes made of twigs and cloth for observation only

>>14738722
casaba howitzer

>>14738776
it's terror bombing, not precision strikes
they take days to arrive from the moon and months to arrive from anywhere else so whatever you're shooting at can just walk away

>>14739210
Couldn't penetrate an Orion drive thrust plate

>>14739210
Casaba landmines.

>>14738722
a ground penetrating megaton warhead will destroy it

>>14739229
the spread and penetration ability is a function of the atomic mass of your "projectile" material
orion drive bombs are designed to spread the blast across the entire surface of the plate
weaponized bombs can be designed to focus it into essentially a particle beam (just did my homework, pic related, 5.7 degrees blows but is better than 22 degrees)

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#id--Nukes_In_Space--Nuclear_Shaped_Charges

required reading

>>14738725
cuts down your radiation exposure, less tedious a voyage and the laser can be used to fly around cislunar space when its not yeeting payloads to Mars

>>14739210
>The name comes from the casaba melon, a variety of honeydew, because the lab was "on a melon kick that year," naming various projects after melons and having already used up all the good ones.
I fucking hate Americans and their random naming schemes. If they had it their way they would've named Mars "Pepperoni" or something dumb like that.

>>14739241
Mars isn't a deliberately obfuscated black project from the fucking 60s
God Bless the 60s

>>14739240
Why would you want to cut down on radiation dose

>>14739281
astronauts don't want cancer and/or dementia

>>14739241
they almost named Pluto "Planet X"

>>14738905
>It's been 45 years
huh, really that long? wow, the only thing they send up there nowadays are flies and lettuce, what a global embarrassment

https://www.universetoday.com/156798/uh-oh-nasa-is-reviewing-psyche-and-may-terminate-the-mission/
its over

>>14739301
>ninth planet
>named tenth planet

>>14739306
I know

>>14739305
>On the surface, it doesn’t look like a cancellation is in the future. The spacecraft is already built and sitting at the launch facility. But there’s no certainty.
It takes until the very last sentence of the article for them to admit it's just an alarmist headline based on nothing. Journalism at its finest

>>14739323
>But there’s no certainty.
you cant sugarcoat this

>I'd say midjourney has not been trained on a lot of technical images. here are some attempts to make pictures of a rocket engine in various styles (realistic, x-ray, da Vinci sketch, blueprint)
https://twitter.com/DonaldM38768041/status/1556423851394752512

The way to win in space is to have fuel depots.
It's just like the days of steam ships, where coal stations would determine your ability to hold onto your colonies.

>wake up
>b7 was being tested last night
>oh shit oh fuck
>its just more cryotesting
>ctrl+w
they're obsessed with useless tests

>>14739340
Ah yes, the four most famous types of rocket engines:
>aerospike buttplug
>nuclear jellyfish
>turbofan with oxygen injector
>solid N-1

>>14739352
those designs are no more or less goofy than what anons here propose tbpf

>>14739297
You won't get that from spending 8 months in deep space (time on Mars doesn't contribute to dose at all unless you're a member of the first mission to ever land there and need to dig up dirt to fill soil bags for radiation shielding, and if you are a member of that team, you accept the risk of an additional few months of radiation dose equivalent to slightly less than ISS rates).

>>14739306
>>14739312
There's a possible universe where Pluto was named Ix instead, after "planet 9" in roman numerals, and then was redefined as a dwarf planet anyway lol

>>14739352
Those look a lot like Metroid Prime concept art, actually

>>14739340
I've got a midjourney subscription, is there any prompt you want me to try?

Rocketfags out there. I want to calculate the theoretical performance of a methalox rocket (thrust, Isp). The Raptor is the only real engine there are stats on, and I want to get a better idea of what methalox can do. How would I go about doing this? I don't know where to start.

>>14739557
try spacesuits in various styles

>Elon hates pedos
>Politicians, media and liberals hate Elon
very sus

>>14739557
piss lock (patent pending)

>>14739033
Land it back on Lunar surface for perma-habitat
Refuel in lunar orbit by having Starship come to moon
Refuel in earth orbit by flying it back to earth

>>14739582
Elon is very definitely not a pedo considering his rate of abandoning and estranging his kids, and fucking only adult women.

>>14739569
Simply assume these figures.

Gas generator engine
Sea level Isp: 300 or less
Vacuum Isp: 325 or less
Vacuum optimized Isp: 355 or less

Staged combustion engine
Sea level Isp: 330 or less
Vacuum Isp: 355 or less
Vacuum optimized Isp: 380 or less

Expander cycle engine
Sea level Isp: 280 or less
Vacuum Isp: 350 or less
Vacuum optimized Isp: 370 or less

Thrust to weight ratio guide: Expander cycle worst, gas generator good, staged combustion ranging from less than gas generator to superior to gas generator (depends on too many variables to have a rule of thumb).

Chamber pressure guide: Expander cycle worst, gas generator mid, staged combustion by far the best. High chamber pressure = smaller reduction in performance at sea level compared to in vacuum.

Cost per engine: if oldspace built it, between dozens of millions and hundred of millions per engine. If newspace built it, less than ten million per engine (unless you're blue origin, probably).

Complexity guide: Gas generator simplest, expander cycle middle, staged combustion highest (FFSC on paper is most complex but separate oxidizer and fuel handling turbopumps actually solves many problems inherently so it's actually a toss-up).

>>14739593
Liquid mercury trap airlocks for Lunar use, floating iron chains and a winch to yank cargo crates and astronauts to the bottom and across to the other side of the trap against buoyancy forces

>>14739630
would it remove moondust from suits and equipment?

Seems Russians plan on blowing up the largest nuclear power plant in Europe and creating a fallout scenario.

>>14739572
Can you be more specific?

>>14739569
>>14739624
Bonus round - electric thruster basic info

All electric engines use electrical power source to first heat and/or ionize a propellant, then accelerate that propellant in some electromagnetic fashion. The ratio of power used to heat/ionize the propellant versus accelerate it impacts performance in a simple thrust tradeoff: if a greater proportion of electrical power is being used to heat/ionize propellant rather than accelerate it, your device produces less thrust compared to a device that has a more favorable acceleration power draw fraction.

Ion drives use electricity to ionize a propellant, then a powerful electromagnetic potential causes those ions to accelerate to dozens or even hundreds of kilometers per second. Immediately after they exit the thruster, the ions need to be neutralized, as every moment they spend as ions on the other side of the grid is a moment that they are decelerating due to their attraction to the spacecraft itself. This is accomplished using an electron gun.
For an equal input accelerator voltage, lighter ionized gasses will reach higher speeds, and offer greater efficiency. However, light gasses are much more energetic to ionize, eating up a greater fraction of the total power supply, and therefore producing much less thrust versus an easy to ionize heavy propellant like xenon. In most applications the Isp hit of using heavy propellant is negligible to mission performance while the thrust gains are very significant, which is why virtually every ion engine in history uses xenon or caesium or mercury or iodine.
Nuclear electric engines can cheat by using nuclear radiation to get ionized gas "for free" in terms of electrical power, and devote almost 100% of their energy budget to ripping a strong electromagnetic potential to accelerate that ionized gas. If your nuclear reactor is also your spacecraft power source this can be highly effective, provided solar isn't superabundant in your operating region of space.

>>14739640
It probably wouldn't, but it would definitely solve the issue of an airlock seal that can handle lunar dust exposure, since it's an indestructible liquid. There's no chance of any of that dust sinking into the mercury either, since it's so dense.

>>14739651

>>14739651
da Vinci spacesuits

>>14739624
Thanks anon.
>Staged combustion vacuum optimised isp: 380 or less
Can it really go that high? SpaceX is struggling to push 360s
>Expander cycle engine Sea level Isp: 280 or less
And does this go so low? I suppose there isn't really a lower limit on Isp depending on how shit you build your engine.

And then how high could you get your thrust? Is it possible to get an F-1 tier monster or is it still better to go with lots of smaller engines (ignoring the landing burn TWR problem).

>>14739630
What does that even mean?

>>14739662

Btw everyone gets 25 images for free, so if anyone wants to try : midjourney.com

>>14739681
ty, they're not very Renaissancey like the rocket engine tho

>>14739569
rpa lite is a good free tool for estimating engine performance but you have to know a little bit about propulsion (chamber pressure, mix ratios) to get any use out of it https://rocket-propulsion.com/RPA/download.htm

>>14739654
Electrics continued

The other way to do electric propulsion is to use nearly all of your electricity to heat up a gas until it changes to hot plasma, confined by a magnetic field, then allow that plasma to flow out of the heating chamber similar to a conventional rocket exhaust, except much hotter. This approach allows you to use whatever light propellant you want, including hydrogen, but most concepts use argon as a compromise to increase mass flow rate without severely affecting Isp and also to increase hardware lifetime (as some plasma contact with structures is to be expected, and a noble gas plasma will do less damage than something reactive like a metal ion). Since plasmas follow magnetic field lines, a magnetic nozzle can be used like a much lighter weight version of a conventional rocket nozzle, but it must be large to avoid having the field lines diverge too quickly, as this would result in the plasma tending to "wrap around" along the field lines and reduce thrust performance, or even physically contact the outside of the vehicle. eventually however the plasma plume will cool enough to shift into a normal hot gas, at which point it will stop following the field lines and expand normally.
The main advantage/difference versus the more common ion drive system is that it can be scaled up to much higher thrust levels without running into severe penalties. An ion drive can only be so large and run at so high a voltage potential, while as long as the power supply exists a magnetically confined plasma thruster can be scaled up effectively infinitely far (though at some point it becomes so big that with a few tweaks you can probably run it as a direct drive fusion propulsion system, which is a different monster).
The biggest disadvantage of these systems is that their minimum viable scale is quite large, and in fact is out of the mass range of any modern robotic mission planning scope. They also need huge power supplies, since they need to be big.

>>14739662

>>14739604
I meant the people who hate him are pedos

>>14739666
>Can it really go that high? SpaceX is struggling to push 360s
Raptor sea level, firing in vacuum, would get around 355 Isp. Raptor Vac has 3x the expansion ratio, it's well above 360 Isp in vacuum.
Raptor and Raptor 2 would/will both be above 370 in their vacuum optimized variants. It's simply a matter of chamber pressure, combustion efficiency, and expansion ratio. Raptor 2 is already the highest chamber pressure engine of all time, and it's something like 98% or 99% combustion efficient, so that only leaves expansion ratio. SpaceX has shown enough agility in engine development that running a production line of Raptor 2 Vac nozzles that have slightly narrower throats is not out of the question, plus the already large vacuum nozzle exit diameter means they will get a pretty high expansion ratio no matter what. The main restriction on Raptor 2 Isp is that it's constrained by the need to physically fit under Starship with 5 other engines and other hardware surrounding it, plus the economic push to keep as much commonality between Raptor 2 and Raptor 2 Vac as possible. Basically, if fitting Raptor 2 Vac under Starship and everything means that it can only achieve

If Raptor 2 Vac ever were to operate on its own, such as alone on an expendable third stage that gets delivered to space empty and refilled before being joined to a deep space payload, then it would be trivial to achieve close to 380 Isp without any turbopump changes at all. Literally just adjust that engine's nozzle to have the appropriate expansion ratio (around 200 or so) and it would get up there. It's kinda like how with a truly vacuum optimized nozzle, the RS-25 is actually a >470 Isp engine.

>>14739681
>>14739717
These AI sketches are very impressive. If you squint, they look just as if they were made by an actual artist.

>>14739748
Describe something

So what's happening? I thought the FAA was holding back Spacex?

>>14739557
Uganda's first space probe

>>14739645
Cool

Official flight kit of Artemis I
there's metal shavings, seeds, LEGO, a shitload of flags...

>>14739774
That was just sfg cope. Starship is dead in the water, and musk knows

>>14739785
What the fuck is all this garbage? Hundreds of stickers and pins and other crap? Why are there metal shavings, shouldn't there specifically NOT be any of those?

>>14739785
Imagine if the bag of metal shavings gets torn open after being jostled by the violent SRBs, and then gets its way behind the console and shorts out the electronics.

>>14739671

>>14739717
Honestly if I were a concept artist I would be seething right now.

>>14739783
Radiation doesn't do anything like that, chemical waste sure does though

>>14739803
how many tons of mercury is in that lock? are there sources on the moon?

>>14739785
Nasa be like "Saving mass in the system is absolutely paramount!"
>loads up a lunar test capsule with a bunch of random bullshit
good job guys

>>14739785
>ESA sends a reasonable amount of things
>everyone else puts 100 flags onboard for some fucking reason

>>14739808
Depends on the diameter. If you had a 2m by 2m shaft width, and the mercury filled section was 7.7 meters deep on one side, 3m deep on the other, and the two shafts were connected by a 2x2x2m cube, that's a total of 50.8 cubic meters of mercury, which equals 687.527 tonnes, or about 7 Starship delivery's worth.
>are there sources on the Moon
Yes, the Moon has every element Earth has, but concentrated ore deposits? I dunno. My solution would be to find the average mercury concentration in lunar regolith and throw molten oxide electrolysis extraction and solar panel printing at the problem until it's scaled up enough to satisfy mercury demand.

>>14739785
>girls scouts
>no boys scouts
And they wonder why people are so sick of nu-society

>>14739820
I regret to inform you that the Freemason idolators are at it again

>>14739778
Wasn't able to get anything accurate but here you go

>>14739823
>7 Starship delivery's worth
wew but if you could somehow recirculate it into a liquid mirror telescope you might get away with it

>>14739825
I don't want the boy scouts associated with that program, it sickens me

>>14739832

>>14739832
dope actually

>>14739837
>>14739832
this program has a better understanding of color theory than I do

>>14739820
This is all just shit they can auction off or donate to various places for attention, isn't it? Why else would you fly 175 US flags around the moon and back?

>>14739796
unironically he does seem to be getting more pessimistic further into development. also partying more...you might call it the "Bezos slide". hopefully he doesnt pull a howard hughes,but it sure is heading that way

>>14739803
Whould it smell?

"skeleton face in nasa astronaut suit, black and white, sketch"

>>14739557
try pisslock inventor lol or happy von braun

>>14739858
Pretty much exactly what it is. Funny that they're doing the thing those Apollo astronauts got into a gigantic pile of shit for.

>>14739870
Not really, but you could always add a layer of human piss on the pressurized side. It'd help keep the mercury vapors down, too.

>>14739872
5 minutes on dalle mini
>>14739882
Are they at least calling it 'mass simulators' or are they not even bothering to pretend this isn't just a way to manufacture a bunch of souvenirs?

>>14739877
Literally me

>>14739888
Check'd also can you try "steam propelled interstellar spacecraft" for the arca meme
also maybe not worth it but "fineness launch system" is another sfg classic

>>14739888
I wonder if the cheese from COTS 1 was eaten, and by who

>>14738615
You're confusing laser thermal for other types of laser propulsion which have longer periods of acceleration.
>plan is to generate continuous thrust for several hours to give the spacecraft the velocity of around 14 km/s necessary to reach Mars in just 45 days. After this initial acceleration, the propulsion unit separates from the spacecraft and returns to Earth where it can be re-used.

>>14739877
I wonder, what would von Braun think of starship? He didn't seem into reusablity

>>14739756
Richard Nixon on the surface of the Moon.

>>14739917
He would hate it. He would hate it in the same way any boomer would hate anything new.

All the Apollo/Shuttle era astronauts hated Falcon 9. They'll hate Starship as well.

>>14739924
hopefully the apollo astronauts will all be dead by the time starahip flies. especially that shitflinger cernan

>>14739898
huh

Anyone know when the building for vertical load deployment is supposed to be built for Falcon 9 on LC-39?

>>14739917
herr von braun is too bashful to reveal his teeth

>>14739915
Do we have any good ways of heating transparent propellants via laser? It would be nice to not have to worry about trying to keep a suspension of particles or dissolved "pigment" atoms/molecules in solution, especially in something as cryogenic as hydrogen. Would a laser tuned to emit light almost perfectly at hydrogen's absorption peak be possible? That corresponds to 656 nm wavelength, or visible slightly-orange red. Would we even want this laser to be perfectly tuned to hydrogen's 656 nm absorption line or would we want it to be slightly longer or shorter in order for the hydrogen to absorb just slightly weaker and therefore allow the laser light to penetrate further into the propellant instead of mostly heating the surface layers? Is that even how any of this works?

>>14739939
If I had to guess, I would say at some point before they are scheduled to perform those launches. It's Falcon Heavy, by the way.

>>14739898
Steam actually makes sense for in space propulsion. Low isp but very simple. Imagine robotic moon hoppers powered by steam which can be infinitely refueled.

>>14739943
Page ten has some information on how the reflector works

>>14739917
>>14739924
you are both retarded
read Mars Project before you open you mouth next time

>>14739898
Steam powered Interstellar spacecraft kek

>>14739966
Forgive me senpai. I do think he was against the shuttle though.

>>14739971
Forgot image

>>14739960
It makes sense anywhere that you have access to plenty of water and don't have much in terms of delta V requirements to do things. At the outer asteroid belt, the inner Saturnine moons, and the Uranian moons we would benefit a lot from using water propellant in solar thermal/electric and nuclear thermal/electric rockets, sure.
If we ever get fusion propulsion we could benefit from water propellant even more, for relatively low delta V transport loops with water supplies at both ends, since you can still easily get 5000 Isp using the extremely hot hydrogen exhaust plasma to flash vaporize and additional water propellant mass stream, but the way the math works out, your total fusion fuel use to complete the transport loop actually drops significantly. The effective gain on fuel efficiency for a reduction in true propellant mass efficiency is exactly why kerolox rockets get ~295 Isp at sea level while high bypass turbofan engines running off exactly the same chemistry at sea level achieve as high as 150,000 Isp.
If fusion fuels remain more expensive than water, which is almost guaranteed, then it will nearly always make economic sense to use inert water propellant in this way.

it's over

>>14739803
Are you too new here to know about the 4ASS pisslocks?
>>14739802
I'm still imagining a RUD before SLS reaches orbit, but this would be fine too.
>>14739858
more like shit that they can give to lobbyists and congresstards and other such ballast... who will then auction it off a few years later
>>14739872
lower left looks like Ted K

>>14739934
They used to because they were misinformed, at least Apollo astronauts, don't care about shuttle fags.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/7547788856/

>>14739985
>Are you too new here to know about the 4ASS pisslocks?
I literally drew the original pisslocks diagram, anon. Mercury moonlocks is the sequel.

This is the last one, I promise.
Ai attempting to draw sfg style infographics

>>14740006

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT5EIHu4hgk

>>14740006
>>14740011
lol you're torturing the thing now

>>14740011
I love those alien eldritch runes

>>14740011
It's struggling to decide between Chinese, Laotian, Hindi, or Korean

>>14740019

>>14739964
thanks for the pee dee eff
>10m diameter phased array ground based laser at 100 MW output power
seems reasonable, if expensive to build out
>inflatable reflector
Oh come on now, rigid truss mirror isn't that hard. Moving on.
>3000 Isp
Real nice, however I automatically knock off ~35% performance in any "wow this will change everything" technology just to add a healthy layer of conservatism. Makes later figuring mean more if it still acts as an effective system despite knocking it down a few pegs. I'll call it 1800 Isp attainable in practice.
>45 day transit to Mars
Meh, I'm not sold that we need to go faster than a 3 month to transfer to Mars, the radiation hazards aren't that big a deal and every other hazard is inherent to going to Mars anyway so shortening the outbound leg doesn't help much.

Anyway, a reusable laser-thermal sled stage with 1800 Isp definitely sounds very interesting. I would like to see the figures for a space based approach instead of ground based, as it would solve the issues of steering the beam through atmospheric shimmering and it would allow for more uptime as well. A laser array in geostationary orbit would have an uptime of over 22 hours (before needing to switch off to avoid shooting the laser directly at the Earth), and a laser array in a geosynchronous orbit with a high inclination would have periods of unbroken uptime measured in months from the viewpoint of a fixed observer (the higher the inclination the longer the uptime). The new ROSAs on the ISS have a watt/kg rating of 14.5, so for a 200,000,000 W array we'd be looking at 13,800 tonnes of solar panels. With refueling launches included, that's about 1000 Starship flights to build one of these things, however once it's built it would only need the occasional stationkeeping propellant top-up and maybe some mechanical servicing, otherwise it would have no consumables on board and would act as a powerful piece of infrastructure in space.

>>14740081
Also that's assuming there's zero mass benefit to building a ~120 tonne ROSA instead of a ~1.4 tonne one, no improvement in panel efficiency, and no improvements in mass per square meter.
If you wanna look at a slightly higher tech concept, it's feasible to imagine launching thin film rolls of material to space alongside large masses of raw materials and actually printing the photovoltaics onto the backing film in orbit, to avoid needing to design for the stressed of launch. It could be possible to get much more lightweight solar arrays this way.

>>14740079
>shaky cam cgi
why

>>14739971
Probably was just allergic to vastly unrealistic projects.

>>14740090
Printing panels in space brings up the idea that Mars settlers will have easy access to space with strong local technological focus on developing highly practical resource extraction cycles that work on mixed regolith, and may therefore get a significant leg-up in terms of low G mining and processing by going to Phobos to exploit those resources. Building huge solar power satellites in Mars areo-synchronous orbit using materials mined from Phobos would allow them to set up their own hundred-megawatt scale laser arrays for supporting high Isp propulsion systems both in the local Mars sphere of influence and for spacecraft departing to the asteroids (not to mention, to "catch" fast incoming laser-thermal propelled spacecraft heading to Mars from Earth, as well as throwing LT vehicles back at Earth from Mars. In fact this propulsion infrastructure setup should allow for fast transit, single-window round trip flights between Mars and Earth, and with decent payload mass fractions to boot.

Northrop Grumman just announced a collaboration with Firefly to develop a replacement first stage for Antares

>>14740011
>>14740050
will 'werner von kerman supervising slave labor at keenemunde' return anything decent?

>>14740166
good for firefly but why not just develop a replacement second stage while they're at it

/sfg/ BTFO

>>14740226
Do retards really think earth is finely tuned for us rather then the other way around?

>>14740099
makes it look less cgi by adding motion

>>14740239
>Do retards really think
no

>>14740226
Mars is going to be plan B for a long time. Not some comfy paradise resort. Of course it's hard to predict the far future. Mars could be able to self sufficiently colonize a barren earth 20 years after the first human sets foot on it. Or hundreds of years after.

how on earth is it going to take SLS 10-20 days to get to the moon? saturn v did it in only 4 days even when carrying a much heavier payload
i know it's weaker, but if it's seriously 2.5-5 times as weak, how is it even capable of getting to TLO in the first place?

>>14740239
Yes

Most people can't look back 5 minutes and they can't look forward 5 minutes, hence they will always make stupid arguments about what is true today and think thats how it was a million years ago and how things will always be that way in the future.

Its poor foresight/planning/simulation, a good indication that they're stupid.

>>14740081
Right, the power supply if put into space is far too valuable just to be used to send small cargo spacecraft to Mars in 45 days with a mere hour long burn and that wouldn't be particually useful unless scaled to the level where it could perform a manned transit, which would likely be a premium service for rich tourists rather than addressing key health concerns like exposure to radiation or the zero g environment.
>The new ROSAs on the ISS have a watt/kg rating of 14.5
IIRC the actual power output of iROSA is a fair amount higher than the nominal figure for some reason, there's a bunch of extra mass in the support structure needed for Dragon and other gear for the retrofit. A better example of a space proven array would be Orbital ATK's UltraFlex which has been >150 W/kg for many years. Redwire states that >400 to 500 W/kg could be achieved with their technology and >1000 W/kg is considered achievable in the proposals for power sails. Assuming Starship can launch 100 tonnes and the array is 500 W/kg, each launch would equal 50 MW if I'm not mistaken, ignoring volume which could be the limiting factor.

https://redwirespace.com/newsroom/dsss-fact-mega-rosa-and-solarosa-technologies-highlighted-in-nasas-tech-briefs/

>>14740211
Makes sense to replace a Ukrainian/Russian first stage on a US rocket, but you are right that a full redesign might be better. Antares got away with a solid second stage (a legacy from Oribital Sciences) because the Russian engines on the first stage were so overpowered. Can Firefly even make a first stage that powerful?

>>14740226
Man will go where he wants to go.

>>14740226
>earth
>finely tuned
spending 48 hours outside with no technology on 99% of Earth's land area would fuck you up. Most of Earth's land area is hostile enough that without technology humans would be locally extinct within a year. Humans evolved high intelligence and effective tool use in direct response to a changing climate making our ecosystems more inhospitable to us, forcing early humans to adapt or die.

>>14740226
>Wouldn't maintaining a large and advanced technological society on the universe's only confirmed life-bearing planet thus causing large scale environmental degradation and increased rate of extinction and biodiversity loss while space has more resources and energy abundance be "stupid"...???
>redditors

>>14740260
I view Mars as the first step of plan A, which has the long term goal of "moving the vast majority of humanity off of Earth entirely, allowing us to repair the damage we caused and preserve Earth in a more natural state for all time, while also getting our dicks sucked by robots in orbit".

>>14740226
>wouldn't leaving the only north african valley finely tuned to support our early homonid bodies be "stupid"...???
>homo erectus

>>14740264
It is because of Orion's shitty and tiny service module. It needs SLS to lob it onto a low energy capture trajectory in order to actually have enough delta V to get into its target orbit then return to Earth. The entire SLS Orion architecture is retarded.

>>14740271
>compact stowage volume (>60 to 80 kW/m3 BOL)
And that would be >66 MW per Starship with a 1,100 m3 payload bay. The future is bright.

>>14740226
>it's hard to do
>thus it's stupid to do
do zoomoids really?

>>14740271
>key health concerns like exposure to radiation or the zero g environment.
In my opinion a 3 month transfer is plenty short enough to avoid zero G complications and radiation absorbed dose. A solar storm shelter eliminates the single biggest risk of interplanetary spaceflight, and 3 months of cosmic ray dose rate in between planets is equivalent to 6 months of cosmic ray dose rate on the ISS. As for dose rates on Mars, item A2 in any Mars pioneer mission itinerary will be to fill and stack sand bag radiation shielding on their habitat, creating a radiation environment equivalent to sea level on Earth (Item A1 will be basic systems startups and checkouts after initially landing/moving into the habitat in the first place). The additional Mars surface setup dose toll is only paid by the first crew to reach a new site, assuming that robotics aren't advanced enough to pre-install regolith shielding.
>there's a bunch of extra mass in the support structure needed for Dragon and other gear for the retrofit
For sure, and I knew that, but I like to make very pessimistic estimates when I'm sussing out a concept because it tells me more than if I were to take figures at face value or make optimistic guesses. A ~900x launch campaign by Starship to send all the power supply modules and laser array hardware to geosynchronous orbit would eat up roughly one launch per day of the entire Starship fleet for approximately three years, which is both not a long time for a major infrastructure project and not that expensive compared to infrastructure projects on Earth (900 times $10 million per launch is "only" $9 billion dollars, or the cost of two SLS-Orion Moon orbit missions). Obviously if you have a Starship launch complex that can pull off a launch every ~12 hours (gotta wait for the ascending/descending node to be overhead), or multiple launch complexes that can do the same, then you can greatly accelerate the timeline.

>>14740272
According to the press release, the new first stage will perform better than the old one, and will actually lead to an increase in Antares performance.

Alright /sfg/, I want you to go to Gunter's space page (https://space.skyrocket.de/index.html)) and find a satellite launched as close to your birthday as possible

Mine is in between STS-112 ITS-1 and Foton-M 1 #13

>>14740337
looks like it is taking the Firefly Beta first stage wholesale. Have they even test-fired the Miranda engine yet? Seems like a feasible step up from Firefly's existing Reaver engine (1 MN vs 736 kN)

>>14740310
>>66 MW per Starship with a 1,100 m3 payload bay.
More realistically something like 20 MW per Starship, due to the fact that you can't pour your solar array into the payload bay like a liquid to fill 100% of the envelope, but even then 20 MW/launch of power supply is nothing to scoff at by any means. 30 launches gets you a power supply that can make a laser array with a beam power of 200 MW, after inefficiencies in conversion between panel and emitted light. For a $10 million/launch Starship, that's a mere $300 million in launch costs.

Trivia question, how do you find funding to develop and build megawatt-scale single launch solar arrays and megawatt scale space based laser systems?
Answer: you have a conversation with the DOD and point out that continuous firing capable megawatt scale laser systems in orbit render HGV missiles irrelevant.

>>14740337
>>14740343
7xMiranda is 7 MN vs. the previous 2xRD-181 at 3.8 MN, which is a pretty hefty thrust increase. Although the tank diameter increases from 3.9 to 4.3 m, they are also going from a metal to a composite tank so the dry weight might be similar.

>>14740338
>Explorer 11, also known as S 15, was the first satellite to be launched for the purpose of detecting the sources of high-energy gamma rays.
>In addition to detecting gamma rays, Explorer 11 was designed to map their direction with emphasis on the plane of the galaxy, the galactic center, the sun, and other known radio noise sources; to relate the measurements to the cosmic-ray flux density and the density of interstellar matter; and to measure the high-energy gamma-ray albedo of the earth's atmosphere. The satellite was a spin-stabilized octagonal aluminum box (30.5 by 30.5 by 58.5 cm) on a cylinder (15.2 cm in diameter and 52.2 cm long). Explorer 11 was constructed so that its stable motion was an end-over-end tumble about the transverse principal axis that had the largest moment of inertia. The gamma-ray telescope assembly was mounted so that its axis of sensitivity, which was parallel to the long axis of the satellite, would rotate in the plane of tumble. The orientation of this axis in space was determined to approximately 5 deg by means of optical aspect detectors and the use of the known radiation pattern of the vehicle antenna. Telemetry was provided only in real time by two PM transmitters, since the onboard tape recorder failed at launch.
>After launch on a Juno-2 rocket, the spacecraft achieved an orbit with an apogee of 1786 km, a perigee of 486 km, a period of 108.1 min, and an inclination of 28.9 deg.
prestigious, I'm ok with this

>>14740343
>1 MN vs 736 kN
Honestly this could be done by widening the throat of the engine and therefore getting a greater mass flow rate out of the engine before the backpressure tops out the turbopump RPM. No major hardware changes even necessary, it takes a hit on Isp but it's a first stage, you can trade 5% Isp and stretch the tanks and add two more engines and get more payload to orbit, simple as.

>>14740166
They're also buying three Falcon 9 launches for Cygnus.
https://twitter.com/joroulette/status/1556718378370359296

>New: Northrop Grumman has bought three Falcon 9 missions from SpaceX to launch its Cygnus cargo spacecraft, a spokeswoman says, as the company looks to replace Antares' Russian-made RD-181 engines with Firefly's Miranda engines.

>>14740359
>Although the tank diameter increases from 3.9 to 4.3 m
This alone would improve the mass fractions somewhat, as tanks get more mass efficient as they approach a spherical shape, ie they get fatter. The fact that they want to go to composites means they should have a very good mass ratio provided they don't design it wrong on purpose, as a joke.

>>14740338

>>14740377
>filename
Can't wait for the NGRST to launch!

>>14740368
>>14738205
Oh look, I'm right for once, or I suddenly gained the ability to predict the future.

>>14740377
>my birthday is important enough to be of federal security importance
narcissism

>>14740387
You just have a working head on your shoulders. Neutron won't be operational before 2027, I reckon.

>>14740355
>continuous firing capable megawatt scale laser systems in orbit render HGV missiles irrelevant.
Don't forget, pulsed firing is more effective for laser ablation weapons, all the cooling requirements remain the same, and with a 20 MW power supply such a laser could pulse with a beam power of twenty gigawatts for a millisecond, once every second, forever. That's 20 megajoules, or 5.5 kilowatt-hours of energy, delivered in one millisecond, second after second. You can have multiple laser satellites targeting the same missile, too, just in case it's shiny enough to not get knocked out by a single laser array attack. Really the biggest flaw with this system is figuring out how to target and aim the laser finely enough to knock out these missiles as they try to maneuver out of the beam path. Luckily, HGVs have a very strong thermal signature and due to being surrounded by some amount of plasma they are highly visible across most of the relevant parts of the electromagnetic spectrum.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/northrop-taps-rocket-startup-firefly-replace-antares-russian-engines-2022-08-08/
>New: Northrop Grumman has bought three Falcon 9 missions from SpaceX to launch its Cygnus cargo spacecraft, a spokeswoman says, as the company looks to replace Antares' Russian-made RD-181 engines with Firefly's Miranda engines.
Northrup Grumman BTFO. Firefly doomers BTFO.

>>14738205
>>14740387
>>14740406
>Northrop Grumman has bought three Falcon 9 missions from SpaceX to launch its Cygnus cargo spacecraft
prophetic

>>14740395
>b-but, with automated fiber placement, you measure the speed in meters per minute! We've shown that carbon composites are an ideal material for a rocket, you can't do this to me!

>>14740424
Pete you seemed like the smart one before this nonsense. Notice how all the space SPACs are imploding, and those that didnt are doing just fine

>>14740432
>BUT I ATE MY HAT DIDN'T YOU SEE ME EAT MY HAT

34 new stamps from the Peoples' Republic of Kampuchea, 1984-1988
I'm very annoyed that I've managed to identify only one of the six satellite stamps from 1988, but I was stuck on them for a few days so I'll identify them some other time.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/165jOZm52WUw4g-xQBCZMR9PtnfTdScmu?usp=sharing

>>14740450
Vega-1 Telemetry data from Halley's comet flyby, 1986

>>14740453
And the only 1988 satellite stamp I could identify, Intelsat VI

>>14740338
neat
I'll make some Thai curry in commemoration

>>14740450
Question; should I make parent files for countries that are the same, but different (Kampuchea/ Cambodia, USSR/ Russia or any post soviet state), or just leave them separate?
I haven't had this problem until now with Kampuchea and Cambodia

>>14740448
i saw you half heartedly taste it you pussy

>>14740395
>Neutron finally launches
>about 10.3 minutes after launch it spontaneously transforms into a Proton rocket and sends an Electron rocket flying off at over half of the speed of light

>>14740519

Booster 7 testing today. NSF says SpaceX might not be doing overpressure notices anymore.

EARTHER (derogatory)

>>14737976
To mine an asteroid, take a special starship to land on the asteroid (probably rich in platinum group metals). The starship deploys radiators ( either as heat pipes drilled deep into the rock, or radiators. The starship also deploys a truss tower mass driver. The starship mines small bits of the asteroid, pulverizes and heats it up and mass drives it away, very quickly. Alternatively, if there’s water you could split with electrolysis then burn the stoiciometrically perfect mix in a rocket engine.
When the asteroid is on its way, the starship decouples and renters the atmosphere. The asteroid gets lithobraked into a desolate area like a desert, tundra, or shallow sea (good place- novaya zemla, wher tsar bomba was tested). The asteroid can then be mined using normal, cheap methods

>>14739829
nice, love the Freemasons

>>14740338
Does this count? I don't care at all, it does, I like it.

>>14740552
t. body so weak he can't even handle a proper gravity well

Reminder that two of the Crew 5 astronauts were meant to launch on Starliner.

>>14740563
they decided they'd rather live

>>14740079
>no tiles falling off

>>14740559
Stop replying to the retard

>>14740537
>SpaceX might not be doing overpressure notices anymore.
Based, live nearby at your own risk.

>>14740562
No, he's from a gainstation, he was raised in a 10g spinhab built in low Jupiter orbit

>>14740567
Again, tiles falling off is due to vibration shockwave as the ship is mounted rather than flying. Normally the force is shooting downwards as thrust, but in static fires, the force is moving downwards, and then generating shockwaves with the mount, which then sends the vibrations upward to the ship.

>>14740563
Is that JAXA guy a Hapa? I liked Soichi Noguchi, I grant him honorary aryan status

>>14740537
Finally. I am glad that they finally stopped coping and said that what's her name (not Maria) was right about receiving a notice from SpaceX regarding no longer needing to give notice.

>>14738613
The launchers are really far from earth. By the time the nukes from earth arrived at tha mass driver on Phobos/Eros/the belt, there would be a train of 90 or more days worth of kinetic kill rocks headed to earth. They’d be like dumb bombs ( no guidance) so basically immune to interception.

>a booster that slammed into an overpass is safer than Starliner

The absolute state

>>14740656
Kek

Can't beat that Elonium

>>14740656
that falcon will not be approved to launch retard

>>14739107
Not much data is needed. The deep space network can do 0.5-4mbps, which is a lot. The landing code could be preloaded so all they need to revive is an update to some parameters.

wagmi

HA HA TIME FOR ENGINE TESTING