/sci/ - Science & Math

Philosophers are primarily interested in logic. Do you know calculus and linear algebra?

>>14721987
>Do you know calculus and linear algebra?
Yes

>>14721999
Great! All you need to understand philosophers is logic. If you're first learning logic this book is the best book by a long shot.

>>14722028
Lolno. The best place for someone interested in philosophical logic to start would be a text that covers syllogistic logic, truth tables, truth trees, sentential logic, predicate logic, second order logic, modal logic, and paraconsistent logic, in that order. I'm not familiar with the text you have recommended, but I doubt a text on mathematical logic would be comprehensive enough.
t. undergrad math major phil minor, currently applying to philosophy PhD programs

>>14722271
I am all ears considering the pain it was for me to self teach myself logic. Every resources has hardly any examples and omits steps.

>>14722353
"Deduction" by Daniel Bonevac

>>14722375
bonevac lectures are a godsend
talk about a pivotal teacher

>>14722271
Which book would be good to learn what you have mentioned

>>14722353
Discrete mathematics with applications by Susana Epp. Really good beginner book

>>14721974
Oddly enough the best resource for finding information of this nature is nLab and especially this quite comprehensive article https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/Science+of+Logic which is a formalization of Hegels Objective and Subject logic into Modal Homotopy type theory and higher topos/category theory. Of course there is an indispensable connection between these two so if you actually want a firm connection of Hegel with mathematics you first have to understand the principles of these two branches to grasp why they're unseparable in this context. If you are familiar with basic category theory I would recommend learning about Higher Category theory and then higher topos theory and in parallel learning the basics of homotopy type theory from the HoTT book. There is a lot of potential in adopting this view presented in this article and it definitely elucidated the Hegelian blizzard presented in the Science of logic to me. I'd also recommend reading Lawvere's papers on The future of category theory where he explicitly mentions Hegel and this book.

>>14722694
>look up higher category theory
>it gets even higher
>discover higher topos theory
>its about the infinite
>the inventor? Jacob Lurie
>he's Jewish
>modern kabbalah was invented by Isaac Luria
>remember that Hegel was profoundly influenced by occult mysticism
>remember that almost every culture believed that mathematics was seen as a path to mystical enlightenment
>remember that JACOB was the son of ISAAC in the Bible
>remember Jacob's ladder in kabbalah
>strong sense of "this cant be a coincidence" schizo alarm bells ringing
nigger what the fuck is this shit? don't tell me I've been studying philosophy all this time only to discover I should have been studying math

>>14722747
Yeah It is a deep rabbit hole and a spiral and the mysticist hermeneutics of it are quite intriguing at least for me. When I first discovered that this branch exists I was confused to the point of denial but then I started reading more and more and the information flow never stops literally and it is so dense. Most people on here dismiss it as a schizo product but I think it has massive potential in pseudo formalizing and developing deep understanding of it, that is to say "intertwine" the two fields even more then they are.

>>14722747
Also to briefly mention that Hegels ideas were actually used in formalizing string theory or generally the fundamentals of physics with precisely the formalization I mentioned in the last comment. If you are interested you can get information about it on this video
https://youtu.be/a9QIiCrlZlU..

>>14722804
I can't believe we allowed Jews to dominate mathematics and physics. They're all secret kabbalists. Now they're debating whether string theory has 10 or 11 dimensions as a veiled attempt to debate whether there are 10 or 11 sephirot in the kabbalah. They're even rubbing it in our noses with fucking names like JACOB LURIE. It's LITERALLY all there is to it. How can the goyim not see this?!?!

>>14722820
>Jews
>secret kabbalists

>>14722538
>>14722375

oh sweet a schizo thread

Philosophy is trivial as fuck. If you have basic literacy and are not totally retarded then you should be able to read philosophical texts and to figure out immediately where they're wrong.

>>14722694
wow nlab is really peak pseud

>>14722820
I can sense your frustration caused by math and physics going well over your head.

>>14721974
I was seriously considering buying one of those Hegelnet posters to hang up in my dorm room. Probably for the best that I didn't, already looked like enough of a dork with a plushie collection and a framed vinyl copy of Nursery Cryme by Genesis

>>14722271
>syllogistic logic, truth tables, truth trees, sentential logic, predicate logic, second order logic, modal logic, and paraconsistent logic,
Wouldn't that all be assumed if you know calculus and linear algebra, any guide to calculus or linear algebra on sci has you study this well before you even construct the reals. (assuming they can be)

>>14725084
I don't believe there has ever existed a human on earth that studied second-order logic before they started on calculus

>>14725084
>Wouldn't that all be assumed if you know calculus and linear algebra
Give me three examples of math textbooks that cover syllogistic logic.

>>14721974

Hegel defecates liquid caca in the mouth of Mathematics.

bump

bump

>>14721974
Check: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/466638/what-was-the-lawveres-explanation-of-adjoint-functors-in-terms-of-hegelian-philo


https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/Aufhebung

nLab has a lot of good stuff. Check out his greater and lesser Logics, not the Phenomenology to start for that sort of stuff. PhS is amazing but not well organized or maybe even a coherent whole.

Or if those give you trouble start with the lectures, history and then religion, because they are way more straight forward.

The Preface to PhS is notoriously difficult and was written by hand in one go under a deadline with Napoleon advancing on the city Hegel was in, possibly finished as it was being shelled, and so, while genius, has some of the worst writing I've ever seen in terms of run ons and bad organization.

If you get a commentary for any of them avoid neo-Marxist stuff like Kojeve as your main source because they totally ignore his ontology and religious thought, as well as the influence of Boehme. Harris's Hegel's Ladder is my favorite secondary source but that is just PhS.

Kojeve is fine, just don't only use him.

>>14725189
Me DESU. I went to a shitty inner city school system with freshmen classes of about 1,100 at my high school and graduating classes of a bit under 200.

Gang bangers in classes, kids yelling and intimidating the teachers out of teaching. Being a nerd would get you bullied. Also math was taught as this totally abstract thing you only learned to take tests. I skipped class all the time to smoke weed and drink. Barely graduated due to skipping too much.

Still got into AP classes for English and History and got one of two 5s in the school for the tests because I could coast on strong semantic knowledge, but math required some minimal investment that I never put in. Still passed the classes with Ds and C's because I didn't do a bunch of work. Only took stats in undergrad, and just taught myself applied calculus for some classes I had.

Went to grad school for a quant heavy field and went to a elite program because I had great college grades unlike my shit tier high school grades. Got totally fucked because the advanced stats courses required doing proofs and I had never done a proof in my life or even looked at one. Other classes required much more calc.

Taught myself the bits I needed and did very well but had huge holes in my knowledge for even basic shit like geometry. Did do more stuff with The Great Courses, but skipped to more advanced stuff because I found it more interesting.

I did a bunch of online classes and self study and worked on set theory quite a bit and then category theory. Still have never gotten all the basics for high school math lol, but now I've done graduate courses in abstract mathematics through a cert program.

>>14722804
Example.

Hegel has inspired a good deal of science recently, particularly in biology because Pierce has become so big in biosemiotics and biosemiotics has become a real science with information theory and work by guys like Deacon.

I've seen him cited in information theory too, cognitive science, and physics to some degree. The bit influence in physics I've seen is some authors who write on the "Bit Bang," an information theoretic model of the Big Bang.

Donald Hoffman is obviously inspired by Hegel with The Case Against Reality, and you can see his influence in Bohm's work on difference and similarity.

>>14722538
Not him, but go with For All X. It is free digital, or cheap for print copies.

Great boom. Used by Cambridge and was used by Princeton for a bit I believe as their intro.

Also, use the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Great resource.

>>14721974
This is good:
>>14728086

But also look at the Stanford Encyclopedia article on Hegelian Dialectical and Hegel.

>>14728112
You are doing yourself a great disservice desu. Fields like mathematical logic, set theory and category theory are heavily involved in "metamathematics". The more diverse of an exposure you get to the different fields of mathematics, the more fruitful their study will become.

Hegel would've been a schizoposter for sure if he had been alive nos

>>14723642
This is the most Jewish thing you could have ever said. Thankfully, I know better than to stew in resentment. I'll just lean into my strengths, schizo verbal intelligence, so I can digest the kabbalah and BTFO your physics-kabbalism FOREVER.

>>14722747
>don't tell me I've been studying philosophy all this time only to discover I should have been studying math
you should have started with Plato you fucking retard. you read Plato, right? he literally tells you to study math for 30 years before you study philosophy. jesus CHRIST you should have been filtered

>>14725521
Pretty much any book on intro to logic or introduction to mathematical
https://www.logicmatters.net/tyl

>>14723619
yeah this is kinda true
thing is, in order to embrace this entire category theory mentality or the "nPov" one must accept mathematical structuralism is a premise. if you're ok with that, then great, otherwise, if you're like me, all of it will seem rather dubious

Neato 400 page paper on applying Hegel's Logic to information theory: https://engineering.lehigh.edu/sites/engineering.lehigh.edu/files/_DEPARTMENTS/ise/pdf/tech-papers/21/21T_004.pdf

>>14728526
The entire document contains only thirteen uses of the string "syllog" and every one of them is "disjunctive syllogism." All that means is that if A is true, then (A or B) is true for any truth-value of B. And anyway, the text is talking about systems of logic where that rule of inference doesn't hold.

I doubt you're going to find a text on mathematical logic that covers syllogistic logic. It's more of a freshman-level philosophy class.

What philosophy do you know?

Hegel's project doesn't make sense without some understanding of Kant, and he is also highly influenced by Greek thinkers and Greek culture in general (classical, not contemporary). Heraclitus was a big influence despite not having much survive.

Hegel was also very influenced by Pietism and mysticism, particularly Jacob Boehme. Boheme inspired an argument or God from logical necessity, being springing from the contradiction of pure undefined being and nothingness. For Boehme, God evolved through time, the world helped create God, including Man.

Just as Eckhart said the Father cannot be without the Son, so God needs other minds to define Itself.

Knowing the philosophy is key to getting into the mathematics because the formalism is incredibly abstract and you need to learn category theory.

You're not going to have the will for powering through to pic related without realizing why so many people find Hegel (and Pierce) as absolutely key to building better sciences.

But for a solid rec, read Terrance Deacon's Steps to A Science of Biosemiotics. It's online free. You'll get a crash course in Shannon Entropy and information theory, which you absolutely need, Karmagorov Complexity, etc. and how this links to Boltzmann Entropy and the definition of and evolution of life.

He goes into Pierce too.

Then if idealism seems like total nonsense, read Donald Hoffman's The Case Against Reality. It might not convince you to be an idealist, it didn't for me. But it will likely convince you that Hegel's project is still very relevant.

>>14730906
>What philosophy do you know?
So, I enjoy mostly continental philosophy. I'm well versed in Plato, Aristotle, the Stoics, the Academic Skeptics, Neoplatonism, the Scholastics, the early moderns (especially Leibniz), Rousseau, Hume, Kant, Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche, Freud, Heidegger, Strauss, Foucault, Deleuze, and Peirce. I've already taken the idealism pill.

My problem is that I'm a mathlet. And now I've taken so many "learn math and logic" pills that I've decided it's no longer a meme. But I want to learn the math that allows me to do better philosophy. Hence the thread. I have a few questions, however:
1) How often are Peirce's phenomenology and categories of logic taken seriously? I think it's impossible to truly understand Peirce's semiotics without delving into the abstractions that spawned it.
2) Why is category theory so fundamental, for philosophy and mathematics? From what I understand as a layman, there are multiple fields of meta-mathematics competing for the role of being "the foundation", like set theory, type theory, etc., yet there's skepticism of there ever being completeness. Most mathematicians are just happy to say "set theory works well enough" and just leave it at that.
3) Weird question, but where does poetry, music, athletics, and the arts fit into all of this? There's a current in many exit-tier philosophical works, beginning with Plato, that believe that revelation and mysticism is what ultimately determines truth, and while it is irrational, it is somehow fundamental too. Just throwing that one out there to pick your brain.

How tricky is it to study and analyze a concept without unknowingly internalizing some of its prerequisites or components uncritically?

bump

>>14729885
Are you braindead? It's a bibliography.

>>14732551
The 194 page, 1.04 MB PDF file at that link is a bibliography?

>>14721974
Fractals applied to Hegel: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1016/0191-6599%2895%2995816-Y?journalCode=rhei20

bump

is anybody familiar with Rosa Liechtenstein's website anti-dialectics and her critique of Hegelianism? especially something she calls "Spinoza's greedy principle" which destabilizes dialectical logic? what do you think of it?

bump

>>14722271
>undergrad math major phil minor, currently applying to philosophy PhD programs
based, the only field more foundational than math

I'm not sure fully, yet Hegel seems to be big on the endgame for ODE's and Set Theory (anal. Cal.c) where I've been at reading him currently- a bit past into Stoicism and Skepticism: negation of reality or something in favor of inner experience and the upholding of society by the efforts of critical thoughts in these methods.
For Hegelian applications to the brain you can try commutative algebra, algebraic topology, graphs and their combinations or something.
I don't know, I'm still stuck in the trenches of Calc 2, I just find this all so facsiating

bump

last gump

Hegel BTFO.

"Hegel, installed from above, by the powers that be, as the certified Great Philosopher, was a flat-headed, insipid, nauseating, illiterate charlatan, who reached the pinnacle of audacity in scribbling together and dishing up the craziest mystifying nonsense. This nonsense has been noisily proclaimed as immortal wisdom by mercenary followers and readily accepted as such by all fools, who thus joined into as perfect a chorus of admiration as had ever been heard before. The extensive field of spiritual influence with which Hegel was furnished by those in power has enabled him to achieve the intellectual corruption of a whole generation."

“In these past few years I have come across descriptions of Kantian philosophy in the works of Hegelians that have entered the realm of complete fantasy. How could minds that have been disfigured and spoiled by Hegelian nonsense while still in the freshness of youth remain capable of following Kant’s profound investigations? They have been accustomed from early on to mistake the hollowest verbiage for philosophical ideas, the most miserable sophisms for sagacity, childish absurdities for dialectic, and their heads have been muddled by absorbing crazed word-combinations which torture and exhaust the mind that tries in vain to extract some meaning from them. Minds like these do not need a critique of reason, they do not need philosophy: first they need a ‘mental medicine’ as a purgative, something like ‘a short course in commonsensology’, and then we must wait to see whether there can ever be talk of philosophy with them.”

>>14739086
>>14739094
>>14739100
Schopenhauer has already been sublated by Hegel

bump

Math is an arbitrary explosion of logic derived from an origin value that is defined as its own negative, a contradiction unto itself.

last bump

>>14728294
no he doesn't say that you stupid retard
go read it again
and by "read" I mean, read it properly
do you need some guidance, you stupid monkey? stupid sad loser

>>14723616
lol...

>>14744386
alright big brain nigger, tell me what he says then

>>14722028
Picrel is literally me

>>14744483
A simple google would've sufficed. Next time don't bother reading an entire book, brainlet. Just google the summary lmao. Why waste your time?

>Plato wrote The Republic in around 375 BC, so about 75 years before Euclid wrote The Elements. In this work Plato sets out his ideas about education. For this, he believes, one must study the five mathematical disciplines, namely arithmetic, plane geometry, solid geometry, astronomy, and harmonics. After mastering mathematics, then one can proceed to the study of philosophy. First Plato gives an overview of his educational ideas, then goes on the talk about the five mathematical disciplines. Before we give a version of Plato's description as given in The Republic, let us note the style in which it is written. Plato, as narrator, describes a conversation he is having with his elder brother Glaucon, who addresses the narrator as Socrates.

>>14744483
do you think it takes 30 years to master this:
>>14744910

>>14744915
Sorry, I forgot that Plato meant 10 years of mathematics (to encourage the capacity to relate everything to everything) and 20 years of dialectic afterwards. Still, I think you're overlooking how complex ancient Greek math can be. Euclid also wasn't some one hit wonder who single-handedly invented geometrical proofs (although he did make substantial original contributions too), so much of that geometrical knowledge would have been around during Plato's time.

>>14740313
He was also fully retroactively refuted by Bakker.

For example, while Quine fatally weakened the synthetic/analytic distinction, it was Bakker who provided the proof that calcified dogma is not observably different from analytic fact using a combination of the philosophy of information and semiotics of abstraction, joining the logical systems of Floridi to the physics of messaging via Landauer's Principal and computational entropy. Incomputability, Krylov Complexity, Yao Entropy, have disasterous consequences for proving analytics that are not tautologies, and nowhere is this more apparent then in the Dunyain-Logos Paradigm, as viewed from the Absolute Judging Eye Vector, Whale Rape Gang Bang Hypothesis laid out in The Great Ordeal. Bakker brings philosophy from Kant to Quine full circle, unsublating both, so both can be resublated as an organic whole into the dynamics of whale-mother-cave-rape-as-logos, which provides proof of the incompleteness of Logos due to the incomputability problem. Turing would have been proud!

Note that others are also more seriously retroactively refuted vis-á-vis the transcendental aesthetic via the proof of Meat Fueled Murder Rape Orgy (where the inefficiency of the alien space nuke, and resultant high level of radiation released, reminiscent of primitive, WWII era nuclear weapons, results in the Scalded as a boipussy dynamical system, which, shows that even a simple system represented by a differential equation can, and will necissarily produce chaos if it reaches a phase of three in any cycle.) The result is that the faculties cannot be an anchor of anything, as strong variance driven by "initial" conditions invariably leads to chaos. Bakker symbolizes this using the stochastic forces of nuclear radiation, as from those quantum activity we still see the larger classical objects of emergence in the rape orgy.

This shows the teleology of rape, the Inchori Theory and defeats appeals to classical ethics as such.

>>14746491
vomitous

>>14746491
I've seen you reply to me like 3 times with this copypasta but I have no idea what it means.

>>14746854
it's from /lit/ fantasy thread. That dude Bakker gets shit on for his dogshit nonsense purple prose. He put up his work for critique on there, took none of it and actually got published. Now his haters seethe all day

>>14722271
>t. undergrad math major phil minor
Great combination.

>>14746491
/lit/ schizo if he had brain damage and no talent

>>14722271
Based and absolutely true. Btw, a good book as a basis is „A new history of western philosophy“ if you wanna get into philosophical logic and don’t know shit about philosophy in general

>>14747664
cool book

>>14746854
Meaningless copy pasta

>>14746916
Bakker needed a better editor for his second series but they're really good. Probably too violent for some. It's like a perfect mashup of Dune, Berserk, and Lord of the Rings.

But he is a meme on /lit/, that's for sure. Neuropath was decent too. Fluffy thriller with a decent plot using research findings in support of determinism and eliminitivism for psychological effect.