/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14711709
Climate change denialism chads we just keep winning

You can still join the winning team climate change chumps

So this would be like sticking a thermometer in my ass and claiming I know the temperture of my body if I had a particularly hot ass

>>14711735

its like if you slowly slid a thermometer into your tight little anus and sat on a heated car seat

>heartland institute
lol
lmao

>philip morris lapdog institute says climate change not real
you lemmings are so easily manipulated, it's unreal

>>14711709

It's simply Truth Plus reporting. Listen and Believe.

>>14711709
>Heartland Institute
Why do you choose to get your information from shills?

>>14711709

>>14711758
wtf would phillip morris have to gain about lying about climate change you mouth breathing retard?

>>14711750
>>14711758
>>14711768
Is there a debunk of this yet (and a debunk of the debunk, etc.)? Or is this a new study

>>14711768
>>14711758
this isn't something new, fraud is coming in science to impose policy
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/nov/27/climate-email-hackers-access-month
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/09/hacked-emails-police-investigation

>>14711802
It's not a study. It's propaganda from a right-wing think tank that gets its money from oil barrons.

>>14711808
>climategate
You know that's a nothingburger, right?

>>14711841
Honestly, your description sounds more like propaganda than the study. And I don't even believe the study which is why I'm asking what the debunk is.

>>14711841
phillip morris are right wing oil barons?

Nigger you are a stone cold retard

>>14711852
Look up the Heartland Institute and their funding. They take in millions of dollars from oil magnates to make up shit exactly like this "study".

>>14711841
>oil barrons
These support the anthropogenic climate change agenda, why do you think nuclear is so heavily shilled against by "environmentalists"?

>>14711868
>Oil and gas companies have contributed to the Institute, including $736,500 from ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005.[78][109] Greenpeace reported that Heartland received almost $800,000 from ExxonMobil.[52]
5 seconds of googling would tell you this, but i know that can be hard for the mentally deficient

>>14711868
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartland_Institute
>The Heartland Institute is an American conservative and libertarian public policy think tank known for its rejection of both the scientific consensus on climate change and the negative health impacts of smoking.[3]

>Founded in 1984, it worked with tobacco company Philip Morris throughout the 1990s to attempt to discredit the health risks of secondhand smoke and lobby against smoking bans.[4][5]:233–234[6] Since the 2000s, the Heartland Institute has been a leading promoter of climate change denial.[7][8]

>Oil and gas companies have contributed to the Institute, including $736,500 from ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005.[78][109] Greenpeace reported that Heartland received almost $800,000 from ExxonMobil.[52] In 2008, ExxonMobil said that it would stop funding to groups skeptical of climate change, including Heartland.[109][110][111][failed verification] Joseph Bast, president of the Institute, argued that ExxonMobil was simply distancing itself from Heartland out of concern for its public image.[109]

>>14711843
According to who?

>>14711875
Nonsense. Nuclear is just too expensive to attract investors.

>>14711876
Oh I see. So when Exxon Mobil predicts global warming decades ago it's legit science. When they fund a study that shows global warming studies are biased, now Exxon Mobil is corrupt? Kys fucking moron

>>14711880
Everyone who has ever looked into it. There was even an official review that found no evidence of wrongdoing or unethical practices.

>>14711884
Their studies on climate change were internal and the results were suppressed. Immediately after their findings they spent billions on climate change denial. This is par for the course.

>>14711888
Promises promises

>>14711852
the paper came out like 2 days ago. there hasnt been time for anyone to debunk it, if anyone is even aware of it. no one takes the heartland institute seriously, however.

>>14711891
Giga coping.

>>14711898
Nobody takes you seriously faggot. Kys

>>14711872
You write and communicate like a shill. I'm not saying you are, just that what you're saying has no value and the way you're saying sounds more like propaganda that the thing you're saying is propaganda. Is there anyone in this thread who can copy paste or link a debunk?

>>14711898
Okay, thanks. I'm sure it will have a debunk to see soon enough.

>>14711709
>96 percent corruption is because the stations’ measurements are tainted by the effects of urbanization
Absolutely retarded critique, a literal nothingburger. Scientists just control for the heat islanding effect in the published data, as it's a well known phenomena. It's called data adjustments, but deniers dont like that either do they? It's impossible to please you people.

>>14711709
nobody trusts scientists and climate alarmists. they lie about pandemics, vaccines, and temperature changes.

>>14711907
See
>>14711876
>>14711878

>>14711895
That review happened years ago. It's not a promise, it's old news.

>>14711920
>"Data adjustments"
In social science that's called p hacking. It's a statistical nono

>>14711899
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy
>From the late 1970s and through the 1980s, Exxon funded internal and university collaborations, broadly in line with the developing public scientific approach. From the 1980s to mid 2000s, the company was a leader in climate change denial, opposing regulations to curtail global warming. ExxonMobil funded organizations critical of the Kyoto Protocol and sought to undermine public opinion about the scientific consensus that global warming is caused by the burning of fossil fuels. Exxon helped to found and lead the Global Climate Coalition of businesses opposed to the regulation of greenhouse gas emissions. More recently it has expressed support for a carbon tax and the Paris agreement.

>>14711928
Yeah well in climate science it's called "controlling for possible human induced disturbances in the data", such as heat islanding.

>>14711932
Did not read, do not care. Your post is indistinguishable from a shillbot

>>14711928
>correcting for a known confounding variable is p-hacking

>>14711923
Saying "look over there" is a shill answer, anyway the other anon answered my question so you can go play the game with other posters now

>>14711942
>Anything that doesn't give me the results I want is a variable I remove until I get the result I want
That's p hacking. Kys pseud

>>14711943
Did you read those posts, or just ignore them because they're inconvenient?

>>14711948
This post was written by gpt3

>>14711942
>>14711945

>>14711934
>I don't care about facts
We know.

>>14711952
Cope harder, retard.

>>14711953
>>14711954
>T. Shill

>>14711957
t. Moron

>>14711945
Riddle me this: what's the difference between post-hoc adjustment and re-calibration?

>>14711963
Nothing. Phacking is neither of those. Cope hardest pseud

>>14711945
Holy shit you are dumb

>>14711966
Seethe more pseud. You got BTFOd

behead those that deny climate change

>>14711970
>Execute those who do not conform to mine authority
Ty 4 admitted climateshits are a religion

>>14711934
>get BTFO
>dig into your own bullshit even further
classic cognitive dissonance. you don't care about the truth, you just want to be right no matter what.
human beings were a mistake

>>14711985
Projection

>>14711948
I ignored them because they had nothing to do with my question. Why do all of your replies sound so weaselly and shilllike?

>>14712026
Your question was disingenuous. How about you learn how google works so I don't have to provide you with common knowledge?

>>14711888
>There was even an official review that found no evidence of wrongdoing
said the same scientists who depended on that being found having no evidence of wrongdoing

>>14712030
Fuck you

>>14711876
Bud my Dad worked as pretty high level exec for Brown and Williamson his entire career, right out of highsool til the day he retired at 50. B&W bought philip morris like 20 years ago and B&W has jack shit to do with oil you stupid fucking nigger so stfu and kys

>>14711709
>Heartland Institute
So you get all your information about climate change from Oil Billionaires?

Why? These people would sell their grandmothers for a buck

>>14712044
Send nudes and we'll see.

>>14712047
actually I think it may have been RJR not philip morris

>>14712032
Nonsense

>>14711878
Idk if you are pretending to be retarded here or not. It says heartland worked with philip morris and some oil companies not that Philip Morris is an oil company you fucking retard.

>>14712043
so true

>>14711878
and look you make a valid point but ffs man learn how to communicate clearly or you just look like a fucktard

>>14712047
you're a stupid fucking retard who can't read. par for the course for a namefag

>>14712065
Nobody claimed Philip Morris was an oil company. The claim was that the Heartland Institute is paid by oil companies to produce propaganda.

>>14712095
>seething retard is seething

I don't even care if it's real anymore as it is being used as an insanely powerful political weapon. The dystopia being implemented to "fight" climate change is undeniable worse than climate change itself, so for now it doesn't matter if it's legitimate.

>>14712108
>Illiterate retard is illiterate

>>14712095
>oil companies
are you from the 20th century? they're "energy companies" no, they haven't been "oil companies" for decades. the energy companies will happily exchange cost effective energy solution like gasoline powered vehicles for more costly options, the more energy costs, the bigger their profits are.

>Rothschild interest in oil dates back to the 1880s when the French bank acquired a refinery at Fiume on the Adriatic and then developed interests in the newly opened oil fields on the Black Sea. Their interests grew until by 1900 they were major operators in the production and marketing of Russian oil, then the largest sector in the world, before taking over Royal Dutch Shell in 1912.

>>14712154
They're still oil companies and that snippet you copied and pasted just says there's larger oil companies now.

>>14711709
The entire premise of this paper (the last sentence of the first paragraph) has been proven wrong over and over and over again.

https://skepticalscience.com/surface-temperature-measurements-advanced.htm

https://skepticalscience.com/print.php?n=1080

Every time my own outdoor thermometer reads in the upper 80s, the news reports upper 90s. When my thermometer reads in the low 90s, the news reports 100 or more. This only happens at high temperatures, when the news reports temperatures under 80, they match my thermometer's readings.

>>14711709
Historical temperature measurements are bullshit.
>maybe 150 years of sparsely placed thermometers that only exist where people live and ignore the most extreme environments
>40 years of satellite coverage of the entire planet including ocean surface
>dude lets just mix the data sets together and ignore the billions of years before

>>14712490
The only one ignoring data is you.

>>14712492
>error for the measurement is of the same magnitude as the deviation
k e k

>>14712497
Not in 150 years, lying /pol/tard.

>>14712130
>I don't even care if it's real
We know.

>>14712130
>The dystopia being implemented to "fight" climate change is undeniable worse than climate change itself
Woah check out this alarmist.

>>14712499
>namecalling
your emotional outburst lets everyone know that you're incapable of being objective on this topic

>>14712499
you're talking about variance...how accurate are thermometers exactly?

I'll even spoon feed it to you:
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/crn/measurements.html
Do you even know how to do error analysis or does your knowledge stop at high school statistics and the more numbers you have the better?

>Founded in 1984, it worked with tobacco company Philip Morris throughout the 1990s to attempt to discredit the health risks of secondhand smoke and lobby against smoking bans.[4][5]:233–234[6] Since the 2000s, the Heartland Institute has been a leading promoter of climate change denial.[7][8]
>The Institute no longer discloses its funding sources, stating that it had ended its practice of donor transparency after experiencing the organized harassment of its donors.[105]
>Oil and gas companies have contributed to the Institute, including $736,500 from ExxonMobil between 1998 and 2005.[78][109]
>The Institute has also received funding and support from tobacco companies Philip Morris,[5]:234 Altria and Reynolds American, and pharmaceutical industry firms GlaxoSmithKline, Pfizer and Eli Lilly.[107] State Farm Insurance, USAA and Diageo are former supporters.[112] The Independent reported that Heartland's receipt of donations from Exxon and Philip Morris indicates a "direct link...between anti-global warming sceptics funded by the oil industry and the opponents of the scientific evidence showing that passive smoking can damage people's health."[56] The Institute opposes legislation on passive smoking as infringing on personal liberty and the rights of owners of bars and other establishments.[113]

Anon, they are literally what you are projecting on actual scientists. Unlike the IPCC they are a political organisation that publishes whatever their donors want to hear.

>>14712508
Not an argument, thanks for admitting you lied.

>>14712510
>you're talking about variance
No, I'm talking about uncertainty, which is a measure of accuracy.

>>14712522
Of course "he" doesn't, he's larping as a retard. Whatever the larper know is irrelevant. Even if he knew error analysis, he would pretend to not know.

>>14711709
>heartland.org
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heartland-institute/
> Union of Concerned Scientists said, “Heartland has a long history of
>intentionally trying to confuse the public on behalf of corporate sponsors.”

>>14712710
Union of Concerned Scientists has a long history of being principal contributors to the replication crisis

>>14712721
>Union of Concerned Scientists has a long history of being principal contributors to the replication crisis
Source?

https://skepticalscience.com/Mikes-Nature-trick-hide-the-decline-advanced.htm

There’s no point arguing with this troll. He refuses to talk about data and methodology and just says that data is made up

>>14712721
You can't make up stuff in response to cited facts, /pol/tard.

>>14711878
>ad hominem passes for science now

>>14712817
>That's ad hominem
- the boy who cried wolf

>>14712536
>Unlike the IPCC
https://www.ipcc.ch/about/
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/08/ipcc-report-what-why-matters/

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/how-life-could-change-2030/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aztvWxRKqDQ

>>14712860
The IPCC is still not a political organisation consisting of paid shills. Two driving forces of the first few reports won the physics Nobel prize last year. How many Heartland shills won Nobel prizes?

>>14712895
>The IPCC is still not a political organisation
bro, t's a literal political organization
>Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP)
>The IPCC is an organization of governments that are members of the United Nations or WMO

>>14712902
>The convention establishing CERN[12] was ratified on 29 September 1954 by 12 countries in Western Europe.[13] The acronym CERN originally represented the French words for Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire ('European Council for Nuclear Research'), which was a provisional council for building the laboratory, established by 12 European governments in 1952.
Hurrdurr cern is a political organisation

>>14711726
wait when they start talking about blocking the sun with a reflector the size of a country.

>>14712916
>wait when they start talking about blocking the sun with a reflector the size of a country
heh, not so fast climate chump
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/no-thanks-bill-gates-scandinavia-says/

>>14712154
this, these morons are too retarded to understand anything that isnt directly A to B.

The funny part is they think they have big brains when they talk about "oil company studies" which would have been relevant 30 years ago but now those companies are all the ones that get the subsidies and tax breaks for all this shit kek. It is literally the exact opposite now, the "oil compaines" are the ones who are pushing the global warming bullshit because they are the ones that invested billions into the next bullshit they are going to try to sell you. I wouldnt even typed all this out if you hadnt brought it up already because effort posting for these mouth breathers is a waste of time

>>14712923
>the "oil compaines" are the ones who are pushing the global warming bullshit
Source?

>>14712274
Naturally, because you make perfect sense and present evidence, you're entirely ignored.

>>14711726
I was a denialist before it was popular

>>14712060
Its not nonsense. Everything found in climategate is still true and as valid as it was the day it was exposed. Theres been no deboonkeeng

>>14712721
This

>>14712906
>cern is a political organisation
Correct.

>>14713261
Nonsense

>>14711934
You're literally shilling for Exxon lmfao

>>14713608

>>14713619
She's so cute

Nobody going to comment on the possibility that even though the organization that conducted the study has an agenda that it might be correct about weather station placement?
In lots of cities, the NWS official weather station is at the airport. Over the years, airports have been expanded, getting more runways, taxiways, terminals, maintenance facilities, and more flights. It's within the realm of possibility that these activities impact the microclimate around the weather station.

>>14713644
>posting pre wall pics from 5 years ago

>>14711709
I'll just assume the statistical analysis in the report isn't lopsided horseshit so we can claim the conclusion is valid. The conclusion is:
>the data saying the planet is warming is inaccurate because one source of data from the thousands we have are too close to urban heat traps, which are one of the driving factors in climate change
Wild.

>>14711852
How many times do massive political and financial interests have to get caught funding bullshit statistical studies to counter the studies their own unbiases researchers previously published before you stop believing them? These people pay billions of dollars to manipulate statistics in such a way that no one besides a professional statistician could catch it, and that's when they aren't completely fucking opaque with their methods or data.

>>14713700
>urban heat traps, which are one of the driving factors in climate change
Problem could be solved overnight if urbanites weren't too lazy to put a plant on their roof and water it occasionally. Instead of lifting a finger to do something about the problem that they cause and screech about endlessly, urbanites insist on spending their time doing nothing at all to combat climate change, except for reflexive internet virtue signaling for the iphones they're all addicted to and controlled by.
Urbanites are the only people with positive carbon footprints, urbanites are the only people who emit more CO2 than their property absorbs, they are the only people who can do anything to stop CO2 levels from rising, but they insist on doing nothing except complain that others aren't solving the problems urbanites cause.

>>14711709
>8700 total stations
>1225 USHCN stations
>study sample size: 128, only 80 of which were USHCN sites
Sample size not even 10% of the total, they don't provide a single bit of data on their sampling methodology or how it was conducted, they provide no data they collected besides pictures and then statements of their own with no description of the picture matching many of their statements (just things like, "At some of the cites, conditions were "absurd", please trust me, video got deleted), they provide no methodology used *whatsoever* in how they generated their statistics and no mention of methodology used in how they interpreted their statistics.
In short, this isn't a scientific paper. This is statistical manipulation. Everyone should bother to read "How to Lie With Statistics".

>>14713685
Climatologists and meteorologists are aware of the problem. They are literally the people who created the standards this report is abusing to claim the entire dataset is inaccurate. Urban heatraps are known to be one of the driving causes of climate change, so mentioning that the measurements are hotter near them means literally nothing, because that's the problem in the first place.

>>14713729
Why is it called "Global warming" if all the problems occur in urban zones? Why not call it urban warming?
>Because urbanites want to use it as an excuse to steal even more wealth from rural folks, there is no other reasonable explanation
OK, thanks for filling me in

>>14713729
>Problem could be solved overnight
Well, no, not really, but urban areas are pretty bad for the climate in general. Cities are also insanely inefficient in terms of getting resources and people together. There is no city in the entire world that can be self sufficient - every single one of them, even small ones of less than 100,000 people - necessarily require resources to be moved from other places to them. Water, agriculture, transportation, build materials, etc. all have to be redistributed away from where they already are to cities.
None of that mentions that massive cities are heat traps necessarily, raising the temperature and changing the local weather every where they exist. This is a known phenomena, which is why this report means fuck all except confirming exactly what we already knew.

The real problem is that big businesses exist in cities and literally make their money off them (since most people live in cities), so there's been corporate propaganda all the way back to the foundations of industrialization telling people that living in cities is a good thing that's more efficient and optimized for your entire life, when it's 100% fucking not.

>>14713751
The heat needed to supply the cities is produced all over the world, not just in the cities. You're also underestimating how much heat those places can make, too. I'd like to go further but
>THESE URBANE FUCKS WANNA STEAL FARMER MONEY ;_;
isn't a valid line of argumentation. Besides land, there's nothing of value outside of cities. Most of the money in the world exists in cities. You have nothing they want, besides more people, which they get by convincing you to move out of the country and into the cities. That's the only way they're trying to steal any of your wealth - by convincing you to move to a city and work for them, or by convincing cities to continuously expand into the country.

I know you'll just read that as "THEYRE COMING FOR ME" but that's really not the case.

>>14713775
>urbanites locate their polluting powerplants in rural zones because they would rather pollute other people's air than their own, because the urbanites locate their pollution outside city limits, that means its not their responsibility.

>>14713749
>Urban heatraps are known to be one of the driving causes of climate change, so mentioning that the measurements are hotter near them means literally nothing, because that's the problem in the first place.
you must be trolling. there is no other explanation. please go away and hang yourself so that we can have a discussion.

>>14713810
citysoi logic

I notice that that one anon hasn't posted in a while.
Has he finally figured out what tides are?

chuds are approaching literally Don't look up tier

>>14711769
this reminds me of terrence howard math

Food produced with artificially enhanced CO2 should have a warning label on them
"this food is bad for your health because it causes global warming"

>>14716839
Its also less nutritious