/sci/ - Science & Math

>>14693476
Based lmao

first for astrovan II

>>14693476
What the hell is that mutant LEM second from left with the inflatable heat shield

>>14693476
FTS Archive
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KCJBL632oieD1r6JOh_5Eg9NTcf_-hH8?usp=sharing

Starship's landing abort is going to be a Soyuz style parachute out the hatch type deal, calling it

>>14693493
Boeing!s proposal if I remember correctly

>>14693505
>jump out of the side of the starship on the way up
>collide with the grid fin

>>14693489
Ha, that reminds me that Winnebago makes van camper conversions

>>14693476
Is Lockheed’s lander/space ship concept ever gonna happen?

I saw it in a pic they posted on LinkedIn so maybe they haven’t forgotten about it

>>14693500
I love how people make stamps for anything
though stamps will probably disappear relatively soon

>>14693539
Whoever runs their social media started posting it a lot a few months ago but no, considering it could really only fit on an SLS. And it’s not like NASA has SLSs to spare

>>14693505
It's just too big for an abort. Maybe you could have ejection seats with drop pods like a B-58.

>>14693539
>fully shielded MADV on the moon

*ahem*

E ESA

>>14693565
not until the nasa authorization in the chips bill orders them to ramp up sls cadence to 2 launches per year, that is...

>>14693565
If LM is independently bidding for Option B of HLS, then I bet that their ascent vehicle has already been redesigned, so you can fit it on Vulcan or... New Glenn?

>>14693489
isnt that just a regular mercedes benz van ?

>>14693621
Mercedes Sprinter, to be precise.

hullo does more delta history https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgWEYvJaTBo

>>14693609
Neither of those rockets are lugging a big ass lander to the Moon or beyond. Shit Glenn might get an upper stage one day but that is really grasping at straws

>>14693621
nice eye. from airstream's site:
>We start with a Mercedes-Benz® Class B or B+ sprinter van chassis, keep all the safety and performance features, and outfit the cabin with all the luxuries you need, want, and can’t live without. Browse our touring coaches and see the 50+ best-in-class features that come standard in each RV.

>>14693638
Launch a depot and refuel in LEO.

>>14693650
no

>>14693653
Fuck off, Shelby.

You hate earthers because you want to feel superior. I hate earthers because Earth brings out the worst in human civilization. We are not the same.

>>14693660
We are all Earthers <3

>>14693663

>>14693669
>where the air is free
Just wait until Amazon monopolizes breathable air and comes out with PrimeAir.

>>14693650
>BASED Depot

This is the new head of RosCosmos. Say something nice about him.

SENPAI discussion thread is up
>>>/tv/171513197

>>14693564
That's one thing I'm worried about, if I keep collecting stamps for the rest of my life, all the newer ones will be sticker stamps. And nobody collects sticker stamps unless they have to.

>>14693693
He looks like a magical creature from one of Babuska's fairy tails

>>14693695
hehehehe

>>14693693
dios mio...

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2022/07/vaya-space-star-3d/
>hybrid engine
>touts throttling as a feature
>recycled plastic fuel
>350s isp
>“Unlike liquid bipropellant engines where if you want to change the design it’s going to take you a year, a couple of years here and there. For us, I can scale it up, and so I could do something to the size of the Falcon 9 rocket if I wanted or anything ULA does. And I can do that scaling up right away.”
>"The CEO has an impressive goal of ramping up to 50 launches a year by 2024, just one year after flight operations are scheduled to begin."
I thought Vaya was just slow to the party like Launcher (who won't make it anyway), but they're an outright meme company

>>14693717
Based Dev. Next season we're gonna go cyberpunk.

>>14693654
>Only a few months of Shelby left
Who will we meme when he's gone?

>>14693679
At this rate, Earth's gonna become Necromunda in 50 years
I hope to move to Mars or even just a Mercurian forge city before then

>>14693751
Brandon

>>14693751
Ballast

Will it be /sfg/ approved?

>>14693771
No

>>14693751
patty murray and cindy hyde-smith are still both on the appropriations committee but it'll be a long time until they have enough seniority to have the same sort of pull shelby has right now

>>14693771
>Bethesda
Take a guess

>>14693771
Todd pls go

>>14693756
>I hope to move to Mars or even just a Mercurian forge city before then
too bad. you're being sent to the belt to deal with space furries.

99% of space operas could work in an interplanetary setting.
>Star Wars
Just scale it where the Empire is run by Earth and the Death Star is some giant kinetic accelerator
>Mass Effect
My favorite. All the alien species are just different human colonies. Etc.

Im just curious as to why interplanetary is ignored by Sci fi

>>14693843
There is Expanse.

>>14693843
Space opera is not generally science fiction

>>14693843
it's more exciting when reinhard is trying to be emperor of the galaxy instead of emperor of the solar system

Is there a specific term for the side of the moon that is facing the earth, but isn't lit up by the sun? Obviously "dark side of the moon" refers to the back of the moon which always faces away.

>>14693864
Near and far side.

>>14693870
No, I mean the part of the near side that is dark, but still visible. This is the best I can find on Wikipedia:
>Earthlight on the Moon during the waxing crescent is called "the old Moon in the new Moon's arms",[1] while that during the waning crescent is called "the new Moon in the old Moon's arms".[2]
but that's gay, surely there's a more technical term

>>14693864
the night side; lunar nights are not permanent, they end

>>14693892
oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense
thanks

sfg is

>>14694004
Thriving

>>14694004
once again asking for Elon to cut down on his tex-mex consumption

>>14694004

>>14694037
The evolution has started. There is no turning back.

>>14694029
He can't help it bros the green chili is just that good

>>14694037
most athletic martian

>>14693756
>At this rate
Nigger there's a population collapse, there's never going to be any sort of hive city on earth (apart from Tokyo)

At which point did you realise that starship was a marketing stunt?

>>14694084
When SpaceX got HLS without having a working rocket

>>14694040
this is the final form. note the neuralink antennas

>>14693852
expanse went interstellar too, the writers just couldn't keep it in their pants

>>14694085
Flacon isn't a working rocket, as proof of their capabilities for future development?

>>14694086
man, I want an atomic rifle

Fourteen years and a design iteration later and this still hasn't launched.

Would there ever be any need for a second launch facility the size of KSC/Cape Canaveral?

I was thinking a launch facility that size could fit in southern Texas, maybe even expand Vandenberg a bit

>>14694089
they couldn't keep it in their ex-pants

>>14694131
>Would there ever be any need for a second launch facility the size of KSC/Cape Canaveral?
Not in the next hundred years. The Cape is mostly unused, they'll just expand there before they invest in another launch site.

>>14693843
sci fi exists to make money, because money means continued existence
the unwashed masses like the words galaxy and universe since they're gibbering apes that don't understand what scale is
strict religious adherence to realism is a meme only autistic retards scream demands for, and why none of them have ever achieved anything in their lives
practicality says fudge the numbers a bit to give the pay piggies something to clap and shell out cash for
the Expanse universe would not function without an engine as good as the Epstein drive, and would then make for a much worse story, so they ignore that fact and let the spergs scream into the wind

>>14694179
epstein drive is completely realistic
earthers are just too dumb currently

https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1550915354225872897

Cantwell's 2nd NASA HLS procurement is removed from latest NASA authorization bill.

RIP BLUE ORIGIN

>>14694197
>epstein drive is completely realistic
where does all the heat go
where is all the propellant

/sfg/ - subversion of the faustian spirit general. every time

>>14694197
>Specific impulse of 1,000,000 seconds
lol
lmao, even
If you're willing to suspend disbelief to this extent, warp bubbles should be on the table as well.

>>14694209
blue bros....we lost

>>14694215
u wot m8

>>14694197
Pedo drive

alive

>>14694209
>RIP BLUE ORIGIN
why even live now?

>>14694235
Oh hell yeah, postin astronauts

>>14694217
million second Isp is the yield of a high efficiency fusion drive
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#modes
and it doesn't violate causality like meme warp drives

>>14694260
This image has got me thinking about what kind of sword would be ideal for hand-to-hand combat in space. I imagine it being an offshoot of the trench swords from WW1.

>>14694217
Nigger if you got your ideal sci-fi, it would get 0 viewers. That blue shit in later seasons is one thing, but the fusion drives are fine.
>implying you aren't that no fun allowed autistic faggot getting spotted in seemingly every thread

>>14694266
LITE SABOURS

>>14693590
Starship’s abort system is exploding on the launchpad.

>>14694273
expendable launchpads? are we NASA now?

>>14694262
>muh FTL violates causality
dumb meme

So falcon aborted launch the other day? havent seen that happen

>>14694292
After the handoff the Falcon itself can call an abort if it detects something out of spec, and that's probably what happened

>>14694255
aeiou

>>14694266
Switchblades and box cutters

>>14694292
Some weather issue related, they launched it yesterday.

>>14694197
>epstein drive is completely realistic
>vaporizes every material within a 250 meter radius via gamma ray flux upon startup
nothin personnel

arcabros . . .

>>14694266
maces with a glowing red ball of plutonium as the head

>What are we, some kind of Martian now?

Damn, I leave and /sfg/ dies. SAD

Rong Malch 5B tonight
https://youtu.be/XSbj7tlqgmQ
https://youtu.be/eh-8Q7cKixk

>>14694399
Never understood why NSF insists on calling it by its pinyinized name, it's guaranteed to be mispronounced

>>14694398
can you post some of the girls from the show?

>>14694415
They're probably the sort to say shit like Latinx.

>>14694420

>>14694389
>ARCA Space Corporation CEO Dumitru Popescu had been facing a series of fraud, securities fraud and embezzlement charges.
>While presenting to the grand jury, Popescu represented himself legally. He said he "fired" his most-recent attorney about three weeks ago after he was dissatisfied with the legal representation he was receiving.
>Popescu defended himself in front of a grand jury for 14 hours and they agreed with his case. State prosecutors dropped 18 criminal charges against the CEO of a space technology company based in Doña Ana County
Holy shit, he defended himself and won, better than Musk for sure who was in trouble with the SolarCity trials and soon will be with Twitter lmao

>>14694430
What's the percentage for people successfully representing themselves in court? I don't like arca but holy based.

>>14694398
It's saturday night, all the nerds are trying to launch their rockets

>>14694398
>LES on sputnik 1
dropped

>>14694422
>she does
>he knocks her up
>then fucks off to Jupiter
There's no joke here, that's what happens

>>14694430
>>14694435
the luck of the gypsy is strong in him

>>14694420

>>14694446
She's 12 you sick bastard

>>14694444
Except for being a manlet of course, also check'd

>>14694443
Is this a new anime?

>>14694446
would lunar girls have deeper tubes?

>>14694448
>>14694452
that's what good moon pussy be like

>>14693524
>pull the little ejection handle
>burn alive in the exhaust plume

>>14694443
B-b-b-based!
>>14694451
it's a certified space classic

>>14694455
Literally ZERO evidence of this

>>14694450
that was the payment, among other things
in exchange, he can wheel, deal, and bullshit in ways jews could only dream of

>>14694452
>lunar girls have deeper tubes
built for BBC

>>14694466
dont talk like that

>>14694466
dad, you're too old for 4chan

Wtf happened to HLS option B? announcement?

>>14694475
congres decided they didn't want to put up the money for it when they could just direct that $$$ to SLS instead

>>14694478
according to those familiar with the actual policy, the authorization means jack shit really, congress can still allocate funding to option B in complete contradiction to the authorization bill

What will Mars pop growth look like?

>>14694483
a staircase

>>14694483
Vertical line

>>14694483
Humanity will never reach Mars

>>14694475
https://spacepolicyonline.com/news/latest-nasa-authorization-bill-supports-artemis-but-omits-cantwells-hls-provision/
>The revised version of the NASA authorization bill being considered by the Senate right now is quite different from what passed previously. For example, although it still strongly supports the Artemis initiative to return humans to the Moon, it no longer authorizes $10 billion over the next five years for a second Human Landing System. Now part of the CHIPS+ bill, it could pass the Senate before the August recess.

>>14694492
>it could pass the Senate before the August recess
Right after SENATOR Cantwell puts it back in. God bless her

>>14694492
The CHIPS NASA authorization is more a series of micromanaging mandates than anything else, any funding would have to wait for NASA's actual budget authorization

I still think it's dumb they're doing this, this has ratfucking written all over it

>>14693660
>calling dritlings 'earthers'

>>14694509
the politically correct term is 'people with souls weighed down by gravity'

>>14694387
Epstein drive fires up and rapes every child within one parsec.

>>14694459
No one has any data on this so every prediction is an educated guess. John Young's (private) prediction was that you'd get flash burned to a crisp.

>>14693843
>Im just curious as to why interplanetary is ignored by Sci fi
The real reason is because of budget. It's a lot cheaper to have a galactic empire where every solar system's capital city is somewhere in California than it is to do realistic planetary settings, particularly with lower gravity.

What the fuck, Arca's asteroid miner design is... reasonable? It's got solar-electric water-prop arc jets which are actually not bad. If it was launched by Starship and not their absurd hyperkerbal meme booster anyway.

https://www.amiexploration.com/hardware

>>14694563
>skewed ROSAs
absolutely retarded, do not be fooled by their lies

>>14694483
>>14694484
this

Why does the Chinese stream have weird music

>>14694592
everything Chinese is weird and sideways or upside down

For All Mankind is trash but it’s alt history optimism is super endearing and it’s a fun “what if?” Scenario.
The writers are fucking hacks though. An insane NASA astronaut kills a cosmonaut on mars then poisons an underground reservoir of water because he’s banging the wife of another astronaut. What the fuck is this shit? Also 9/11 will happen but it’s because of the crazy son of a former astronaut who attacks the JSC.
The moon scenes in Season 2 are kino idgaf.

>>14694613
you're what's wrong with modern media

>>14694613
>For All Mankind is trash
correct stop posting it

>>14694616
Explain

Not gonna lie, I’ll be a bit disappointed if/when SLS flies before Starship

>>14694613
none of those things have happened

Chinese really are brainwashed

>>14694619
>trash
>but
>super endearing
>fun
>hacks
>kino
your consumption of shit media and public display of stockholm syndrome is sickening. you shouldn't be posting here, you should be showing up at the writers' homes, throwing rocks through their windows. either that or stop watching

>>14694633
What’s wrong with them holy shit

>>14694635
I want to throw a brick through whoever thought putting space shuttles around the moon was a good idea

>>14694633
honoring your ancestor's wishes is based actually

>>14694635
I feel the same about Foundation, I only watched it for the truly jaw dropping CGI. The effects in the first episode where the space elevator gets snackbarred and collapses onto the planet is absolutely astonishing, but holy fuck is the show bad. I tapped out after three episodes.

>>14694644
This is the equivalent of bringing a picture of Trump with you to Starship OFT-1

Does a Mars mission HAVE to be within the launch window? What happens if you launch a week before or after the window? How long of a difference does that add?

>>14694649
no it's more like bringing a picture of JFK, and that would also be based

>>14694649
That would be awesome though. I'm totally wearing my MAGA hat if I get to watch the launch in person.

>>14694651
The window is pretty long; a few weeks IIRC, but the middle of it is the “easiest” with regards to Delta V.
The twin mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity launched in the same window but at different times. Spirit used a regular Delta II, but because Opportunity launched later, it used a Delta II Heavy with larger boosters because it needed more delta v

>>14694655
aim higher, anon. you will wear your MAGA hat on your spacex helmet. YOU ARE GOING

>>14694668
>>14694655
Trump insulted Elon and said he made “rockets to nowhere.” I miss 2016 based funny Trump, not the sad old man today

>>14694670
Yeah but think of how many libs would seethe

>>14694651
Launch windows are when the amount of delta V required are optional. You could launch outside of them but it will take more, sometimes significantly more delta V than optimal.

>>14694661
>Delta II Heavy

>>14694679
I wish it looked like that lol. The delta II Heavy used the 46 inch solid motors of the Delta III, while the normal Delta II used 40 inch solid motors (diameter)

>>14694679
Wasn't that design called the Barbarian?

There were some weird fucking Delta II derivatives planned
>7930
Used a cryogenic upper stage with an RL10 instead of its then-current hypergolic one. Core stage is unchanged
>Wide-Body Delta II
This was something of a precursor to the Delta III. Used a 4 meter fairing. It also used a 3.2 meter wide cryogenic upper stage, which necessitated a 3.2 meter wide expansion to the core stage’s kerosene tank.
This would appear on the Delta III, but with 4 meters all the way down except for the core stage’s lox tank.

>Double Barrel Deltas
Used a pair of “normal” Delta II cores in unison to make the oddest looking rocket ever.

>>14694701
Yep. Martin Marietta’s Barbarian design was just a fat Titan IV. This one is much cooler

Just finished Summer Wars, besides the world's most retarded encryption system, it also featured an asteroid lander in solar orbit turning 180 and coming back to Earth in less than 2 days, not burning up or breaking during reentry despite being 1 meter long and creating a large explosion near the protagonist's house. Oh and it was controlled by GPS
IT'S AN ASTEROID LANDER HOW THE FUCK IS IT CONTROLLED BY GPS COME ON

>>14694613
They're not hacks, they're great at what they're trying to do. Your mistake is thinking that the space/alt-history elements of the show are supposed to be its focus and not just a platform for pushing 21st century progressivism.

>>14694592
T-10m to launch of the Long March 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd2gUAwAvV0

>reading comments about global warming
>people start bitching that rich people are trying to escape to mars while everyone else dies on earth
why dont they save up for a ticket too? the tickets are expensive but they're not going to be out of reach.

digga srbs un so

>>14694741
https://live.bilibili.com/22015508

>>14694742
Going from 0.04% to 95% CO2 seems like a pretty stupid way to escape global warming

>>14694750
it aint hot on mars

I wish the US and China were friends. Seeing the Chinese engineers so excited for this launch is making me root for them. I wish things were different.

>>14694748
no clicking that
t. already did

>>14694748
1 million viewers for an unmanned launch is impressive

>all that paint flapping and peeling off
very very shameful

They should build an hotel in boca chica they'd make a fortune

The English lady is irritating I felt bad for the Chinese dude when she kept asking stupid questions

>wumaos in chat
Youtube was a mistake

>>14694773
there's tons of hotels right across the waterway. south padre is a big tourist spot.

>>14694764
>bilibili numbers
>real
They use fantasy numbers on that website.

They stage really goddamn high, wow

>>14694789
Yeah

>>14694735
hosoda specializes in getting critical acclaim for mediocre anime movies

>>14694709
double barrel looks weird in concept art but so did saturn i. wide body probably would've been the ugliest orbital rocket ever.

>>14694802
Can't fucking post part 2 because 4chan keeps saying it has an embedded file. Same fucking settings!

>>14694816
Even when I switch to VP8 it still thinks it has an embedded file. What the fuck is wrong with this site now?

>>14694820
chinkmoot can't do anything right

>>14694820
heh, some retard on /v/ was having the same problem

>>14694828
Yeah like a fifth of my webms I made for the war thread on pol got blocked. Same settings I’ve used forever, same sources for the original videos as always, just the past couple of days everything is blocked.

>>14694828
Me too.

>>14694679
If you are just gonna keep adding boosters-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9LfDM0l-XY

>>14693601
EhZA

>>14694709
>Wide-Body Delta II
Wasn't that the Delta III?

>>14694802
booster on the left is losing paint/insulation between T+90 and T+110

>>14694649
That's an awful analogy. Even if you think that Trump was a horrible president (I have no opinion on him, I'm not even American), the worst he did/could have done in those 4 years pales in comparison to the deeds of Mao Zedong.

>>14695040
Mao was great for China.

>>14695079
Uh-huh

>>14695085
This was legitimately a good thing, and something most leaders would not have been able to handle. Taking above your upper figure of 55 million (I've seen even higher estimates), they had a population of 660 million, so roughly 8% dead over 4 years, or 2% per year. For comparison, the 1877-78 famine killed at least 10 million out of 460 million, or 2% in a year... the same amount, but in that case with no benefit.
As another comparison, 10% of people died in Ireland during the Great Famine, and at least 2 million Bengalis out of 60 million (3.33%) died during the Bengal famine of 1943.

>>14694633
>carton bricks, polystyrene concrete, tin rods
>surpass the world's advanced level
lmao

>>14695014
losing paint? it's fucking coming apart lmao

>>14694742
They don't want to leave, they want to prevent everybody else from leaving.

>just finding out that eutelsat is buying oneweb
wtf

Wentian launched already? Fuck timezones, man.

>>14695106
Good. When is Xi ready for another Great Leap Forward?

Why are the boosters pointing slightly outwards? Isn't that wasted fuel?

>>14695140
I thought british government bought OneWeb
what happened?

>>14695195
basically stability

>>14695195
think about it as holding this rat
you need to squeeze it a little from the sides to that it won't just slip through you hand
boosters need to squeeze the rocket the the middle, otherwise it's just a bunch of rockets flying side by side
>Isn't that wasted fuel?
kinda
most modern rocket booster nozzles are pointing much more straight down that say, Ariane 44

>>14695198
they did, but now they're in talks to merge with eutelsat because europe supposedly wants a pan-european competitor to starlink

>Mars requires 4.1k deltaV to get to orbit
>0.4G
>Basically no atmosphere at the surface

Imagine how good the launch vehicles could be on Mars.

>>14695365
Only for some time. Eventually, everybody will be using the most optimized design, like in the aviation.

>>14693601
>餌
this is bait

>>14693693
a phrenological masterpiece

>>14693870
>doesn’t read the post he’s replying to
>responds on instinct alone
>doesn’t even care about being correct
based

>>14694466
Do you prefer to be airlocked in space, fed into a bioreactor on Mars or eaten by cannibal Earthers during the next Malthusian catastrophe?

>>14694483
Flat until human reproduction on Mars is proven safe. The next flight from Earth will bring Elon and 9 months after the arrival the entire female population of Mars will each give birth to five Muskoids

>>14694673
>>14694670
Trump was always a joke candidate, but the real joke was that even a joke candidate is better than liars and murderers who set out to destroy the country in exchange for political power that they use to fuck whoever they want and receive billions of dollars in bribes

Why don't they just make another LEM, but modernized?

>>14695447
>liars and murderers who set out to destroy the country in exchange for political power that they use to fuck whoever they want and receive billions of dollars in bribes
That's just Earther politicians for you. Just wait until we get the first spacer candidate, and then the real fun starts.

>>14695106
Mao’s economic policies were worse for the economy than decades of civil war. China’s current economic growth didn’t start until after Mao was already dead

Wtf there’s another small launch company?

Whose bright idea it was to go public?

Someone in previous threads was asking about Boing documentary on Netflix.
I watched this and can fully recommend it, no emotional bullshit.

>>14694446

>>14695534

~10 minutes till lunch
https://youtu.be/BuXdtORWrpg

>>14695505
they're a meme >>14693728

LIVE
https://youtu.be/JWcjn8uYATE

>>14695534
No mention of Indian programmers.

Watching these lil' buggers never gets old.

decollage

MaxQute

Have they ever shown fairing separation from the interstage camera? I've been looking out for it for the last two launches, but both times they cut to the shot with gridfins just prior. I have to imagine they have but I wasn't there or forgot.

Elon can't keep getting away with it

Nice landing today.

>>14695587
I tought the same and took a 4k screenshot as well, it looks so good.

I swear they drop those legs lower each flight

>>14695195
>Isn't that wasted fuel?
the delta v losses from angling your boosters in 1 degree are going to be sin(1)=0.017. pretty trivial considering they don't contribute that much delta v to start with.

Why are they still landing rockets? Thunderf00t has already proved that reuse is economically infeasible.

Came in kinda fast today

>>14695614
lmao, did he actually say that or its just a meme now?

>>14695615
I thought the same, but I wasn't sure if I was remembering correctly. Do they release telemetry?
I'm wondering if they're trying to shave fuel costs.

>>14695612
Dude, that is not 1 degree.
Also the CoM goes up as the fuel burns.

I think they angle the boosters because they have shitty gimballing.

>>14695619
>I think they angle the boosters because they have shitty gimballing.
They angle the boosters because the trajectory generates lift.

>>14695624
Long March is a spaceplane

>>14695634
Your arm sticking out the window on the highway is a spaceplane

>>14695634
my dick is a spaceplane

Does anyone know how in the fuck does the chink rendezvous with the CSS work?

LM5 doesnt have a second stage. But at the same time, they said in TV that they are not using a lower transfer orbit. The LM5 leaves the payload almost at target 400 km. So one would expect a small final Hohmann maneuver using on board engines, but apparently there are no engines!

>>14695619
looks like around 3 degrees to me

Falcon 9 Block 5 just hit 113 launches today. This is significant as it means Block 5 has as many launches as ESA’s Ariane 5, except with zero failures (Ariane 5 has 2 full and 3 partial).
Falcon 9 block 5 has a 113/113 launch record. Insane.

>>14694802
Long March 5 is so kino

>>14695700
Breathtaking

>>14694802
talk shit about the chinks all you want but they are the only ones apart from USA that are interested in heavy payload launches and kino transmissions. ESA and JAXA dont count btw.

>>14695700
New Glenn Block 1 just hit 0 launches today. This is significant as it means Block 1 has as many launches as NASA’s SLS, except with zero constituents (SLS has 50 full and 8 partial).
New Glenn block 1 has a 0/0 launch record. Insane.

Is /sfg/ ready for 100+ launches from SpaceX in coming years?

>>14695718
Not going to happen lmao

>>14695718
That's impossible.

>>14695717
isn't it thrilling watching this great race between two fully unusable launchers? nobody else can compete

So even if SLS flies in August it won’t be until 2024 that it flies again? Then 2026 after that? Ahhhhh what the fuckkkkkkk. I heard Artemis II is NET 26 months after Artemis I because they are reusing parts from the first Orion

>>14695718
I wonder if 1 flight a week is the cap for Falcon 9 launches.

>>14695742
We've already seen 3 flights in 3 days.

>>14695737
A launch in 2022? Why do you need a launch in 2024? It's ridiculous to overwork the bulwark of American spaceflight to make the launch happen in 2030. Help! This madman is forcing me to launch SLS by 2050!

>>14695737
>I heard Artemis II is NET 26 months after Artemis I because they are reusing parts from the first Orion
i think it's more because manned orion still isn't ready after all these years

Who wants some Elon Musk gossip

https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/elon-musk-s-inner-circle-rocked-by-fight-over-230-billion-fortune-122071700966_1.html

>>14695737
Yeah it’s right fucked. Artemis is really just SLS jobs first, moon landings and anything else second

>>14695782
Elon is cool but everything outside of SpaceX just seems like a train wreck. I wish we had someone more level headed in charge of SpaceX

>>14695793
Misleading title, the Kurganov dude was fired by the Mormon advisor.

>>14695782
>>14695793
This was inevitable, Musk paraphrases or outright quotes Bostrom constantly. His entire philosophy, his entire life, is built around longtermism.

>>14695695
Anyone?

>>14695365
>vacuum optimized engines from ground level

>>14695810
It's a direct injection
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2022/07/wentian-launch/

>After T+492 seconds, the hydrogen core stage burned out and completed its job, bringing the Wentian science module into its desired trajectory to the Tiangong space station.
>After this, the module will free-fly the rest of its path to the station and use its onboard propellant and propulsion to maneuver itself to the desired position before docking.
>In the past, the Chang Zheng 5B core stage has been uncontrolled after reaching its desired orbit. The previous two CZ-5B flights had the massive core stage reenter Earth’s atmosphere without any indication or control over the final drop zone.
>Chinese officials rebutted, saying this kind of behavior was common practice for rocket stages in the west; however, the size of the stage makes it more likely that parts of it make it through reentry and reach the lower parts of the atmosphere before splashing down — something that is not common in the west where large stages are usually left on safe suborbital trajectories to prevent uncertainty as to their reentry point.

>>14695375
Ah yes, the sector where we have props, turbo-props, high bypass jets, low bypass jets, ramjets and soon scramjets has clearly settled on a single solution. This isn't even considering wing designs, lifting bodies or rotor wings.

>>14695825
Reminds me of the shuttle ET fiasco. The ET could be carried all the way to orbit, but it was purposely put onto a trajectory with a perigee in the atmosphere, like Starliner, or even Starship OFT-1.

>>14695375
Perhaps but thin atmosphere and low gravity would mean that launcher would be optimized to be very big.

>>14695825
Thanks, anon.

>>14695828
Yeah, it looks like they don't trust reignitions. The entire TV show was telling of how risk-averse they are. Everything is guaranteed in advance, so that all those crowds with flags and the generals and big shots don't get embarrased in public.

>>14695839
The funny thing is the reason the don't allow many direct ascents to the ISS is becuase if the orbital manuvering system fails you have a chance of crashing your capsule into the station.

Can a starship really lift off from the Martian surface without super heavy?

>>14695855
How big do you think Mars is, friend?

lol Musk banged Sergey Brin's wife
nice

>>14695855
an earth TWR of 0.5 is plenty for martian liftoff

https://twitter.com/joebarnard/status/1551203348291825665
>I started http://BPS.space almost 7 years ago in the fall of 2015 with the goal to propulsively land a model rocket. I had no background in aero, EE, coding, etc so it took a lot of trial and error, but today I finally stuck the landing
joe finally propulsively landed his solid rocket
does this mean joe will finally move on to liquid rockets now?

>>14695866
>finally move on to liquid rockets now?
Is there a reason to do liquid in this scale? You can go all the way to something like Black Brant with solids.

>>14695871
because solids suck dick
i want to see joe make the smallest possible orbital capable vehicle

>>14695875
but the smallest possible orbital capable vehicle we can do with current tech is spinlaunch's thing

>>14695866
Depends on his personal risk tollerance, I have played a little with liquids but I also played with high explosives. While you can make a decent solid with a pipe, stick and skillet liquids are just looking for and excuse to explode.

>>14695871
I never flew my liquid because any liquid that works puts you in a weight / thrust class that makes licensing a bitch. If he's willing to throw the money at it he could get a ~100kg rocket with a little liquid.

>>14695875
>because solids suck dick
Filtered.

>>14695885
Any thoughts on hybrids? Seems like people either think they're a nice balance between solid and liquid, or most of the trouble of liquid without most of the benefits.

I mean, yeah, liquids are cool, but solids just fucking work and they're cheap.

>>14694802
I tried making part 2 with another program and it still blocks it. Site is fucked.

>>14695855
On Mars, the weight is 38%. For a 1400 ton fully loaded with 100 ton payload = ~530 ton. Raptor 2 with thrust of 230 ton x 3 engines = 690 ton. 1.3 thrust to weight ratio. What's more, due to 38% gravity, Raptor's ISP increases from 330 sec to 870+

>>14695885
not sure how much revenue he is pulling with his patreon/youtube but it should be enough
https://www.patreon.com/bps_space
thought he had more patreons but who knows how many high tier members he has

>>14695896
He makes enough for interns. Doubt they're paid, but it's at least enough to fund what they're doing too.

>>14695895
Err ignore the last part about ISP

>>14695895
>Raptor's ISP increases from 330 sec to 870+
Nuclear Raptor 3 confirmed

>>14695893
Honestly, he should have been working with hybrids years ago. It would have made the project so much simpler. Nitrous-based hybrids are already a well developed technology in the model rocket space.

>>14695893
I only made one test hybrid, erythritol/ Al / Fe2O3 with some 30% hydrogen peroxide frozen a few times to ~50%.
I like the concept and see it as great to throttable hobby engines but see the low ISP as pretty shit for professional launch vehicles.
That said I see hybrid A2A missiles as the future, bleeding missile energy is the standard way to defeat them but if the missile can tell that's what you are doing and cut thrust, wait fo you to burn all your energy and then reignite I think that'll change the game for aerial combat.

>>14695879
>spinlaunch doing anything
lol lmao

>>14695879
>>14695953
I love the current record holder, SS-520 is cute.

>>14695919
i already posted the best possible hobby liquid rocket concept
95% concentrate H2O2
https://sci-hub.se/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/(SICI)1521-3773(19980904)37:16%3C2217::AID-ANIE2217%3E3.0.CO;2-D
>Finally, the present system is not only capable of oxidizing alcohols under mild conditions, but at the same time highly concentrated H2O2 is formed at room temperature from air.

>>14695866
ELON HIRE THIS MAN

>>14695966
I still think liquid nitrous oxide is better for the hobbiest because autogenous pressurization solves pumping for low pressure combustion designs.

>>14695866
I mean he's still using COTS black powder motors right? An interesting next step would be designing a landing solid motor with a thrust curve specifically made to make landing easy, and making his own APCP motors

>>14695971
Monoprop is def the way to go
H2O2 is pretty deadly shit though

>>14695966
having worked with both n2o and h2o2 for rockets, I would definitely go with n2o for amateur hybrid/liquid, where efficiency is less of a concern compared to not fucking yourself up. h2o2 and especially its highly concentrated version, HTP, are nasty nasty stuff

>>14696005
What concentration did you work with?

The Next 100 Years

It’s time

>>14696038
So new Glande never reached orbit? whats stopping them? its not like they are short on money

>>14696039
Honestly they bit off more than they could chew. They went from a vehicle the size of Falcon 9’s landing legs to something as tall as SLS Block I.

>>14696038
I always see the damn cat in the thumbnail

>>14695583
Go away pedo

>>14696042
It always made me laugh listening to Jeff talk about building a super heavy LV while having never reached orbit.
Honestly I think he just saw the money getting thrown at oldspace and figured he owned enough senators to get a cut.

>>14696017
90%, 95%, and above

>>14696057
>Honestly I think he just saw the money getting thrown at oldspace and figured he owned enough senators to get a cut.
Nah, even sadder. Blue Origin is his dream, Bezos is a real-deal space enthusiast.
https://www.bezosexpeditions.com/updates.html
Blue Origin was founded in 2000, he's been talking about space since he was in high school. He's just utterly, completely, lost his way.

>>14696062
any thoughts on those rumors from last year that starship's going to be going to methane/peroxide RCS after they ditch the cold gas?

>>14696071
>upside down chairs for the space bomber

>>14696069
I don't believe that because he is worth ~$140b and gave up on the lander contract because NASA wouldn't give him $3b.
If he actually cared he would just foot the bill himself.

>>14696074
lmao

>>14696084
He got hung up on beating Elon rather than just focusing on his own work. It's a gross violation of half of Amazon's leadership principles, but I guess he went a little crazy with wealth and power.

>>14696084
he's probably worried about amazon's stock price slightly dipping if he starts selling enough shares to foot the bill

>>14696074
seems pretty unlikely. Maybe it was explored as an option, but it's just another fluid you have to worry about. More complexity for not significant gain

>>14696084
That's my point, he's phoned it in. To a point, a successful company needs to be profitable, neither SpaceX or BO should just burn cash, but they're both in the position of not hurting too badly for startup capital, they have room to play. BO hasn't done shit though, BE-4 needs to work yesterday. Bezos is just letting them flail around though, and spending his money and time on stupid pointless shit. He needs his Honda back.

>>14696098
He dropped half a billion on a yacht, I honestly think he just doesn't care about space enough to risk becoming the worlds 8th richest man.

>>14696110
SpaceX took ~50% of Musks personal wealth before Falcon 1 secured NASA funding, that is a man that cares about space, Bezos won't throw 2% of his money at him company.
Yes they need to be profitable to be viable long term but the difference in personal investment makes me seriously doubt it's anything more than a competition with the guy he trades 1st place with.

>>14695793
I wish my train wrecks were worth a trillion dollars

Blue Origina original New Glenn design made more sense
>Derived from New Shepard
>Used five to seven BE-3 engines (as flown on new Shepard)
>Upper stage used a single BE-3 Vacuum
>No real new engine development
>13 tons to LEO
But I think they saw Falcon 9 was eating their market so they had to be more ambitious. But the new New Glenn design is a monster that has nothing in common with New Shepard

>>14695793
>more launches this year than any national agency including NASA
>train wreck
How do you figure? Even if BFR turns out to be a complete loss and never flys Falcon 9 will still be extremely profitable for the forseeable future.

>>14695793
kill yourself

>>14695793
SpaceX would not be where they are today without Elon making the correct decisions in the face of catastrophe.
Barely another CEO would have pulled them through.

>>14696180
Yeah, he saw Falcon change the market by reusing the first stage and decided 5 years into development they should reuse the second stage to be competive.
Also Blue Orign is competing for the same labour pool as SpaceX and every fresh young engineer knows where they would rather be. I wouldn't be surprised if it was
>SpaceX
>NASA
>Blue Orign
in that order.

>>14696198
>everything outside of SpaceX just seems like a train wreck
>everything outside of SpaceX
learn to read

In 1970, the Soviet Union accidentally recovered an Apollo boilerplate capsule, but returned it to the US Coast Guard
>”In early 1970, UK-based naval units were training in recovery of an Apollo boilerplate capsule (BP-1227) as part of their assigned mission of rescuing Apollo spacecraft in the case of an emergency abort or return to earth.”
>”The capsule disappeared at sea. The circumstances of the loss of the capsule are still not clear. It is not known whether a Soviet 'fishing vessel' nearby was in fact a spy trawler and if the capsule was taken as part of an intelligence operation.”
>”USS Southwind then stopped in Iceland and went on to make a visit to Murmansk. This so-called "courtesy call" was the first visit to the Soviet port of a US military vessel since World War II.”
>”This photograph shows Deputy Commander of the Soviet Northern Fleet, Rear Admiral Garkusha and his staff boarding the Southwind from the pilot boat at the entrance to Murmansk sound. Stronski remembers, "All cameras were suppose to be below deck and all port holes closed. Like a nut I got this picture off from the hanger bay. Was called to the captains office on this one.”
>” While in Murmansk the crew was surprised to be presented with an American Apollo capsule, which the Soviets said had been recovered by one of their fishing vessels in the Bay of Biscay. It was BP-1227 - the capsule that had gone missing a year earlier. The handover was made with considerable ceremony and covered by Hungarian press representatives. The capsule was loaded onto the ship at the forward gun mount. “
>”Lashed to the deck, it accompanied the Southwind after its departure from Murmansk and later tour of the Kara Sea. This photograph shows the capsule in icy conditions on that part of the voyage.”

http://www.astronautix.com/s/sovietsrecoe-2008version.html

>>14695793
This faggotry is the reason why everything is so fucking mediocre today.
Yes please put a professional level headed manager in charge so they just keep launching F9 forever.
It's either Mars or bankruptcy with Elon and that's why the company is even worth talking about.
If you don't have chaos the bureacracy builds up and makes your shit grind to a halt.

>>14695079
Hahahahhahahahahhahahahaha well i guess he did kill millions of Chinese people so he was good for the land of china.

>>14696229
My bad and I agree, he's a great marketer and uses that to take credit for other peoples work, the average normie thinks Musk founded Tesla.
Other than that SpaceX is the only thing he's founded that has done anything.

>>14696231
Interesting, reminds me of when the CIA stole Lunik.

>>14696262
hello r*ddit

>>14696266
Don't use it, it pushes popular opinions and surpress unpopular opinions by design.
Do you think that forming a post is "reddit spaceing" because you are a fucking retard?

>>14696262
You're delusional if you think that founding Tesla vs buying it had any bearing on Roadster let alone S, 3, X & Y success.
It would be so delusional in fact that I'd wager you're just being dishonest instead.

Is the “commercial launch market” a meme? Starlink, with 1 million users @ $110 a month, generates $1.3 billion per year.
Falcon 9; Heavy; even Starship, at $66 million per launch, need 20 or so commercial flights per year to match that. SpaceX has yet to hit 20 commercial flights per year as most of their launches go to servicing Starlink.
Both of these estimates don’t include stuff like the cost of doing business, but that makes the situation even worse as a Falcon 9 costs like $30 million to fly anyways.

>>14696266
reddit is kinda cool now

>>14696284
Why does SpaceX need to make as much as Starlink? Why is that the bar you set rather than profitable vs unprofitable?

>>14696284
>Starlink is not part of the commercial launch market

>>14696289
>>14696293
I just think it’s interesting how in 2017, SpaceX wanted to pay for BFR by eating into Falcon 9’s market. But then they pivoted to making a LEO internet constellation a year later.

>reddit is kinda cool now

>>14696299
Honestly it makes sense, they weren't getting enough business through commercial launches, especially with NASA / DOD forcing contracts onto more expensive competitors so SpaceX started looking at what they could launch themselves to make money.
Mapping has already been done to death and micro-sats are a bad match for Falcon so they found a business model that they knew they could get DOD funding for even if it turned out too expensive for civilian use.
If the can come up with a phased array antena that can keep the link from a fighter pulling 3g at 600kn they can ask any price to be the Airforces next datalink.

>>14696262
>he's a great marketer and uses that to take credit for other peoples work
Where does this meme even come from?
He credits the team and the partners (nasa, tesla suppliers etc) only.
EVERY SINGLE TIME his companies achieve anything.

>>14695828
All those ET could have been a wet lab....

>>14696320
He implies he founded Tesla and doesn't correct anyone that says he did in interviews. He also claimed to code on Paypal when in reality he was a rich kid in the right place at the right time with investment capital and the guys that actually made Paypal had to fight to stop him using his investment to name it X.com (terrible idea).
I respect what he has done for spaceflight but pretty much everything else he has done has been buying someone elses work and marketing it or complete failures he hypes up like hyperlink.
On top of that he has straight up retarded ideas like running electric trains on batteries, not becuase that makes any sense but because he owns a battery factory and wants to create demand.

>>14695715
The Ariane 5, Proton and Angara are all non American or Chinese heavy lift rockets.

>>14696332
:(

>>14696299
>SpaceX wanted to pay for BFR by eating into Falcon 9’s market. But then they pivoted to making a LEO internet constellation a year later.
They're doing both. Look at this graph.

>>14696340
>He implies he founded Tesla and doesn't correct anyone that says he did in interviews.
This is not >taking credit for other peoples work
>He also claimed to code on Paypal
He did
>the guys that actually made Paypal had to fight to stop him using his investment to name it X.com (terrible idea)
You're underage.
>hyperlink
what
>he has straight up retarded ideas like running electric trains on batteries
No such thing happened.

yeah, he watches those retards on youtube

>Congress officially authorizes cargo flights to Mars with or without SLS in the late 20s
All according to plan

>>14695745
Not surprising given the early life sections of United States senators and congressmen.

>>14695799
Very cool. I love Highlander.

>>14696340
You caring about founder status and the name X.com is clear evidence that you couldn't tell the difference between a million car per year company and one that doesn't sell a single vehicle.
You're not worth talking to.

>>14695857
I look forward to the quintuplets

>>14696340
Not sure if troll or retard. All the usual anti-Musk talking points with all the facts wrong.

>>14695857
Why does the media keep trying a new muskian sex scandal every week? it's just making me jealous

>>14695106
>literally the greatest humanitarian disaster in recorded history
>good
jesus christ you commies are a genuine danger to humanity

>>14696442
>>literally the greatest humanitarian disaster in recorded history
Oy Vey! Not so fast now

>>14696454
not happened, but it should have.

>>14696340
battery powered trains make sense in some applications, many many areas are not electrified today because of high costs and maintainance.
It often only makes sense on high volume lines, ironically if you want to see a massive expansion of rail, battery powered trains would be an enabler.
Also having freight cars propel themselves has many potential aplications for shunting and managing railyards.

Shoemaker-Levy 9 was a spaceplane

>>14696481
No it did in fact happen. It's just funny how 30 million russians dying in that same period is somehow seen as less bad.

>>14696492
damn i knew the soviet union was big but 30 million is a shitton of deaths still. in how many years? 5?

>>14696507
From 1941-45
The number is somewhat disputed but between 20 and 30 million, only half of which is military losses.

>>14696492
jews have always owned the media, so they've always drilled that jewish lives are worth more than goyim lives
simple as that, really
helps that they suppress the fact that other groups were also victimized at the same time, to pretend that they were the only victims of the war

I’m about a third of the way through my rough draft of an alt history novel set in the 80’s about a second Russian revolution and the US/NATO’s attempt to hoard the Polyus orbiting weapons platform to disable it
I’m debating making the Russian revolutionaries hardcore Communists, or Christian fundamentalists. The latter works more with the overall story; Ronald Reagan is revealed to be the main villain as he funded the revolutionaries to overthrow the USSR.
The story’s two plots involve the “space stuff”, and a political drama about Reagan being impeached. It’s also an allegory for modern day politics and the republicans in congress end up siding with the revolutionaries and try to shoot down our protagonists (Gemini vs Gemini dogfight in LEO).
Thoughts? It’s fun so far. I’ll post stuff when it’s more polished. At 200 pages so far.

>>14696552
>200 pages so far

>>14696564
I’m home from college I have nothing to do except wage slave at a grocery store lol

Wentian has docked with the Chinese space station.
https://spacenews.com/second-module-docks-at-chinas-space-station-large-rocket-stage-tracked-in-orbit/

>>14696574
This it how it looks now

>>14696340
>>14696262
HAIL THE GENERAL FABRICATOR MUSK FIRST ELON OF MARS

thundercucks get the rope

>ok he did make a reusable first stage and he did revolutionize space flight and he is making starship which will literally start a new chapter in history books
>no dude there is no way he made a payment website and car company those things are just too hard

>>14695106
The famine was a result of some sparrow shitting on him, so he ordered the extermination of all sparrows in the kingdom, leading to a local ecological collapse that radiated outwards from the capital. He LITERALLY is responsible for killing 15-55 million people as if he had sliced their necks open himself. Quite arguably, one of the WORST leaders in human history.

>>14696637
>The famine was a result of some sparrow shitting on him, so he ordered the extermination of all sparrows in the kingdom, leading to a local ecological collapse that radiated outwards from the capital
I don't believe this

I win

>>14696643
Mao was a nutty nonce

>>14696442
If you read the post, you'd know there were multiple famines that killed the same percentage of the affected populations, the difference being they didn't have any upsides to them.

>>14696744
You do realize that normal people consider the deaths of millions to be an objectively bad thing that is taught as tragedy, and not a normal consequence of ordinary politics, right?

>>14696755
study chinese history for more than 5 minutes and you'll see it is, in fact, ordinary politics

>>14696766
This is, in fact, why China has a bad rap in the rest of the world.

>try to shoot down our protagonists (Gemini vs Gemini dogfight in LEO).
lol?
also the setup being Reagen somehow establishing revolutionaries in the soviet union during the highest point of tensions during the cold war is shaky at best

>>14696755
>consider the deaths of millions
I care about the relative impact to a group, not the absolute number of deaths, and people aren't taught in the way you suggest anyway. Very few people have heard of the Bengali famine, which not only killed millions, but was entirely preventable, nor of genocidal famines like the Holodomor (which killed 7 million out of ~33 million, a significantly higher percentage of 21%).

>>14696755
its a commie
they're irrecoverably mentally ill
inhuman atrocity is a means to an end in their eyes, which is why they carry them out without hesitation

>>14696783
This is not a normal or healthy way to think.

>>14696783
>I care about the relative impact to a group, not the absolute number of deaths
Okay, retard, I guess two African tribes fighting was worse than WW2

I'M SHOOOOOOTLING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvssRseue7w

>there's was another starlink launch today
Wtf, they can't keep getting away with this bros

>>14696784
I'm not a Communist, and I dislike Communism (especially some aspects of Maoism), but I don't let that cloud my assessment of a situation.

>>14696787
False equivalence. What you could compare are World Wars on a single country, in which case if country A had 10 million people die in the first war, but was only 10% of their population, and had 10 million die in the second war, but it was only 1% of their population, the first was a greater disaster despite the same absolute number of dead.

>>14696796
I'm unironically amazed spacex hasn't already gotten tied up in litigation by dish and viasat and all that shit
the rockets are flying regularly and the constellation grows by the week, it's incredible

>>14696799
millions dying = bad
people dying at all = bad
no, it does not matter if the percentage is low or others were worse
its still fucking bad

>>14696812
I didn't say it wasn't bad, retard, I pointed out that a famine of that scale is pretty regular, so it isn't somehow worse because China has a massive population.

>>14696799
>False equivalence
In no way was it a false equivalence, you specified damage to a group of people and not a specific country, you then tried to move the goal posts to comparing deaths within a single war, which makes no sense because your original point was comparing two different famines. Go back to R*ddit, you left-leaning parasite.

>>14696799
>False equivalence

>>14696820
You have very poor comprehension, I compared the impact of a country of having two different wars, and I specified the losses of a group of people for a certain class of events. A tribe is not equivalent to a country, but (proper) countries or pseudo countries are regardless of scale (Ireland, Bengal, China). Nor is a civil or land war (depending on the tribes) equivalent to a world war.

>>14696799
>>14696820
>>14696824
You're both retarded now shut the fuck up

>>14696799
>trying to rationalize millions of dead by using % of the total population

>rover arms in KSP are supposed to be mounted radial and not fore or aft

I had to make my rover tip over to get the thing to unfold

sfg - sino famine general

>>14696824
>A tribe is not equivalent to a country
>I care about the relative impact to a group, not the absolute number of deaths
A tribe consists of a group of people.
>You have very poor comprehension
Few people fully read your inane ramblings in defense of Mao but ahaha you're totally not a communist, right?
>Nor is a civil or land war (depending on the tribes) equivalent to a world war
Not by your own retarded definition. A famine that kills ten thousand people is not equivalent to one that kills millions.