/sci/ - Science & Math

Because studying nutrition in vivo is fucking impossible for human beans.

You need people to both keep to a food regimen over incredibly long periods AND honestly report if they fuck up AND know how to track their own activities accurately.

>>14651391
>controlling is impossible
>moralfags prevent effective study conditions
>competing financial interests all over the place (mostly pharma and food)
>measurements are difficult
>there is no average person
It’s fucked

>>14651391

>>14651423
>>14651463
>>14651491
Is it over bros?

>>14651391
Use your self as a test subject and eat only fruit but take multi vit and mineral every day with coconut oil

>>14651391
Because they abanoned real health in favour of industry finance.
https://www.gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html

>>14651491
this is the only post needed in this thread. that's it, this is the current state of soience.

>>14651860
no no, health is what we sell you!

I ate mostly only bananas for like 3 months and my health improved and all my mole shrank and became lighter in colour. Most were black now they are a very light brown. People do 60-90 day juice fasts they still get 2k calories a day from the juice never heard of any of them complain.

>>14651901
That sounds absolutely terrible for you.

>>14651926
Shut up your prob one of they onions tards

>>14651423
If only we had a large amount of people in a very controlled environment for very long periods of time whom have committed atrocities toward society and can then be used to experiment upon, thus benefiting the whole of humanity in the present and future ever-after.

>>14652044
Or you can just learn Chinese.

>>14651391
>He trusts the sooience
LET ME TELL YA SOMETHIN BROTHER
I ATE 12 EGGS A DAY DUDE
I ATE 4 RAW MORE IN MY SHAKES WITH THE SHELL AND WHOLE MILK BROTHER
I DID ROIDS FOR 40 YEARS
I SUN TANNED UNTIL MY SKIN WAS CHOCOLATE BROWN
I LIVED THE LIFESTYLE BROTHER

NUTRITION "SCIENCE" IS A JOKE DUDE. JUST SAY YOUR PRAYERS, TAKE YOUR VITAMINS, TRAIN AND GET HUGE IN THE GYM AND YOULL BE FINE
-HH

I have my masters in nutrition and sports science. It isn't that hard anon. The first thing you have to come to terms with is that nutrition is individualistic. One diet does not suit everyone, and one rule is not good for everyone.

For example I had my dna tested and found mutations which prevent my body from correctly digesting salt and fats, so I have to eat more fats and add salt to everything to keep my levels in optimal range.

>>14652211
To continue with nutrition you have to throw out generalizations. The very premise of your question about fats is a bad question.

>>14652211
can you drink milk?

>>14652266
Diary is still considered to cause inflammation but this is still controversial in nutrition. I work with professional athletes who are trying to become better athletes and for them I say no diary at all. For the average person it probably doesn't matter.

>>14652271
>I say no diary at al
non-white detected

>>14652278
I'm white and so are most of the people I work with. Diary causes inflammation in everyone your skin color has no bearing on that.

>>14652285
>he thinks white is only your skin color
lel
http://bionit.ugr.es/pages/investigacion/software/bioinformatics-methods-software

blacks cant drink milk

>>14652297
I'm not talking about lactose intolerance. I'm talking about organ inflammation. These are two completely different things. Your genetics can not prevent diary from causing that inflammation it's documented in everyone.

Next you'll act shocked when I tell you that eating processed grains causes brain inflammation.

Welcome to nutritional science.

>>14651491
/thread

We need another large war with a draft. Then we can experiment on conscientious objectors enrolled in alternative service. Much of what we know about nutrition comes from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment conducted during WWII on objectors.

>>14652306
nigga what's the most natural source of protein for human beans then if the breast milk from cows intended for their offspring is off the table because it causes me organ inflammation? do I need to move over to human breast milk instead?

>>14651491
What was it? Why did it get deleted?

>>14652345
You will never be a cow.

Again this doesn't really matter for random people but if you were an athlete and you came to me and said I want to run faster or further, swim faster or further, jump higher or further, then firstly I'm going to get your internals into optimal health, meaning full blood count and metabolics, and that means a diet with no inflammation.

>>14652369
Ok doctor anal tell me what your number 1 and number 2 recommended sources of protein are for athletes getting a diet plan together

>>14652386
#1. Chicken
#2. Beef

>>14652401
I currently drink 10 pints of milk a week, but no other forms of dairy. I think I could try substituting it for chicken to see how I feel but damn its so easy to just down a pint of liquid compared with cooking shit..

Nutrition was solved thousands of years ago. Eat eggs and only eggs.

Everything else is just someone trying to sell you something.

(not paid for by eggs lobby)

>>14652411
Skinless chicken breast is the best. Milk is a cheap and easy source so I completely understand why people drink it but ideally you would eventually transition off it. Rippetoe is a controversial figure in nutrition and considered a genius in sports science, if you are just lifting and only newish to it then the milk substitute diet works but really you should transition into eating that protein.

>>14652414
Eggs should be in the diet but not just eggs.

>>14652425
thanks for the replies. I get 90% of my protein from fish, eggs and milk. I only occasionally eat beef or chicken. Have a nice day

>>14652369
>a diet with no inflammation.
As a normal folk, took me 10 years to learn about this and finally stop to spending money on hospitals and medicine.

>>14652468
what does your diet look like now. anything in particular you have sworn off?
also I forgot I eat a lot of nuts too for protein

>>14652446
You too.

>>14652468
So many physical and psychological issues people have are fixable with the right diet for that person. It's criminal that the public isn't aware of this.

>>14652476
Brazil nuts?

>>14652490
peanuts
cashews
almonds
pecans
pistachios
walnuts
hazelnuts
pumpkin seeds
I buy a bag of each and pour them into a container so I have my own big box of mixed nuts. then I calculated the average nutritional values from each type of nut to get a sense of what a handful out of the box will provide me with and I go with a 50g portion a day.

>>14652517
That's a great mix. Add brazil nuts to your mix I end up recommending them to most people because of magnesium and selenium deficiencies. Sunflower seeds are a great addition too but a bit small to add to that mix.

>>14652529
will do. I avoided brazil nuts because they had the highest level of saturated fats next to pecans but I don't really need to worry about fat in my diet. this is me nigga, powered by milk no homo goodnight

>>14651391
It really isnt that shitty, it is a solved problem in agricultural science and for keeping lab animals. Picrel is what a lab primate gets on a typical lab diet.

>>14652558
I struggle to believe milk got you there how can you cut to that with a milk substitute diet.

>>14652566
It's not like I don't eat meat at all, just I also drink a lot of semi skimmed milk. I'm 5'10 and I've been ~82kg for the past 4 ish years, very consistent diet and exercise, zero alcohol. believe that shit nigga

the human body is beyond our comprehension

>>14652582
You must have something going on that is abnormal to cut like that. I mainly work with women but still what I say applies to men and to cut like that and you're below 8% while on milk isn't normal.

>>14652586
Lol.

>>14652562
If you adjust for the "metabolizable energy" value (or the physiological fuel value, it doent decrease it much), a nonhuman primate would get this. Na,K,Ca,P,Mg are in _grams_. Everything else units should be obvious.

Protein 156 0.0484 96.9
Fat 53 0.0165 32.9
Fiber 44 0.0137 27.3
Energy 3220 1.0000 2000.0
Calcium 9.1 0.0028 5.7
Phosphorus 6 0.0019 3.7
Potassium 7.3 0.0023 4.5
Magnesium 1.7 0.0005 1.1
Sulfur 2.3 0.0007 1.4
Sodium 2.5 0.0008 1.6
Chloride 3.8 0.0012 2.4
Fluorine 21 0.0065 13.0
Iron 230 0.0714 142.9
Zinc 100 0.0311 62.1
Manganese 96 0.0298 59.6
Copper 21 0.0065 13.0
Cobalt 0.56 0.0002 0.3
Iodine 1.3 0.0004 0.8
Chromium 100 0.0311 62.1
Selenium 370 0.1149 229.8
Carotene 2 0.0006 1.2
Vitamin K 3.3 0.0010 2.0
Thiamine 8 0.0025 5.0
Riboflavin 8.6 0.0027 5.3
Niacin 113 0.0351 70.2
Pantothenate 60 0.0186 37.3
Choline 1070 0.3323 664.6
Folic Acid 7.9 0.0025 4.9
Pyridoxine 14 0.0043 8.7
Biotin 100 0.0311 62.1
B12 73 0.0227 45.3
Vitamin A 20000 6.2112 12422.4
Vitemin D 6700 2.0807 4161.5
Vitamin E 110 0.0342 68.3
Vitamin C 500 0.1553 310.6

AFAIK part of the reason for this is that lab animals are often sterilized in the guts for experiments, and so they cannot rely on "healthy gut bacteria" producing B vitamins and K.

>>14652623
Colums are

Material, Amount, per Cal, per 2000 cal.

So, per 2000 calories, a lab animal gets ~100g protein
~670mg choline
2.0 MILLIGRAMS vitamin K
800 ug iodine
5mg B1
5.3mg B2
70mg B3
37mg B5
4.9mg folic acid
8.7mg B6
62ug biotin
45ug B12

>>14652623
I must be misunderstanding this because that's way too much iron and could kill a person.

>>14652278
what is that on the guy pants

>>14652306
What milk component is associated with inflammation?
Does a1 vs a2 kappa casein affect it?

>>14652642
It is 100% nonheme iron. Part of it could be that lab animals dont live long enough to absorb that much, another part could be that a lot of it is bound in the fiber in the chow.

This is what primate lab diets contain---the TUL for iron is 45mg/day, and afaik that is set by some study where you had GI discomfort (as iron supplements in pills, not distributed throughout diet mixture) and so the TUL was set lower at 45mg/day.

>>14652623
So, compared with the Canada DV values, the far right column is the deficit compared to 2000 calories of primate lab diet.

Vitamin K 3.3 0.0010 2.0 0.12 -1.9
Thiamine 8 0.0025 5.0 1.2 -3.8
Riboflavin 8.6 0.0027 5.3 1.3 -4.0
Niacin 113 0.0351 70.2 16 -54.2
Pantothenate 60 0.0186 37.3 5 -32.3
Choline 1070 0.3323 664.6 550 -114.6
Folic Acid 7.9 0.0025 4.9 0.4 -4.5
Pyridoxine 14 0.0043 8.7 1.7 -7.0
Biotin 100 0.0311 62.1 30 -32.1
B12 73 0.0227 45.3 2.4 -42.9
Vitamin A 20000 6.2112 12422.4 3000 -9422.4
Vitemin D 6700 2.0807 4161.5 800 -3361.5
Vitamin E 110 0.0342 68.3 49 -19.3
Vitamin C 500 0.1553 310.6 90 -220.6

Reminder about those people.

>>14652642
The minerals are prob. over-dosed to a degree, tho maybe not.

Anyway, the point is that the vitamins A, C, D, E, K and the Bs are all completely safe at the dosages given in the chow. Chow also includes basically double protein and significantly more choline, which almost no one gets.

>>14652703
IMO of especial interest is Vitamin D, for some reason a lab primate gets 3.3K IU more VD than a human is "supposed" to need, even tho everyone knows the DV is confounded by the amount of sunshine someone gets.

Also, Vitamin C, Linus Pauling and the guy who isolated it, Gyorgyi or whatever, said humans need well more than a tiny bit.

We really dont know what contribution gut bacteria make to human nutrition in terms of VitsB and K, but it is likely substantial, such that if your gut bacteria got fucked up, you might have metabolic breakdown, feel like shit while the doctor tells you it is your fault.

>>14652476
Leafy greens, small amount of gluten free grains, small amount of legumes, root vegetables, eggs and meat.
Instead of the usual vegetable oil, I use coconut oil or animal fat.
I do eat some fruits but only the ones with low sugar.

I avoid milk, gluten, sugar, vegetable oil, excess of seeds (especially onions) and excess of nightshades.

I'm not aiming low carb or anything, I've tested including back to my diet all those things that I avoid, one by one, and every single time I got sick in different ways.

Even though I got fucked by docs, it's very important to always do a check up with them before and during any crazy shit you're doing, you can get lucky and find one who actually cares about humans and have the knowledge to help you.

>>14652682
It's the acids in the fat that cause an inflammation response.

>>14652688
Interesting.

>>14652703
That is true.

>>14652722
Good stuff anon. Your leafy greens should include rocket.

>>14652722
Also you should only ever cook in coconut oil or ghee. You seem to really know your stuff, good on you.

>>14651423
just study it on monkeys or rats, it's not hard

>>14653239
>just study it on monkeys or rats, it's not hard

It's already been done, monkeys, dogs, lizards, fish, etc. all get substantial more nutrients in lab chow than humans.

In animal models it is clearly known that if you sterilize their guts, they need additional B vitamins. Humans get fed antibiotics, live with women who are always getting sick and fed antibiotics, get colonized with horrible gut bacteria,t hen the (((doctor))) laughs all the way to the bank.

this is my MO

>>14651391
> WHY THE FUCK IS NUTRITION SCIENCE SO SHITTY???
Because "mainstream" science is a joke; the wealthy fucks in charge of things fund studies using the actually-intelligent scientists privately, then put on a big show of discovering things for plebs to see so that they can hoard secrets and gain advantages in private.

>saturated fatty acids as the main culprit for heart disease as the opposite
This one is actually a mystery that was solvable until again, the wealthy fucks forgot their noblesse oblige, and spammed dumbass fraud-science too hard...
Fiber in the diet is key. Refined sugar and saturated fats and ESPECIALLY trans-fats are awful for the body when eaten without fiber. Human diets evolved to expect a lot of hard-to-digest roughage with meals; ancient humans probably just would grab fist-fulls of wheat and chomp that shit, but now we process it until all the fiber is gone. I'll say it again:
>Refined sugar and saturated fats and ESPECIALLY trans-fats are awful for the body when eaten without fiber.
Choosing the "correct" fiber can be tough, but you'll learn cuz your poops will come out easily and float in the toilet. I recommend avoiding wheat fiber. Oats, chickory root, and psyllium husk all work well, but psyllium husk can fuck with blood sugar.

>>14652562
>It really isnt that shitty, it is a solved problem in agricultural science
>first ingredient is ground corn
Shut the fuck up, shill. Corn (maize) is fucking awful for the diet, unless you're eating corn tortillas or corn on the cob, its just gonna get stuck in your intestinal tract and fuck your shit up.

>>14653510
P.S. Soluble fiber is better.

>>14651391
>obese sedentary neckbeard has the absolute worst conceivable diet
>literally ANY change/attention paid to the diet is an upgrade
>tries keto
>gets results (still fat as fuck btw)
>OMG BEST DIET EVAR AND I GET TO EAT BACONZ

>>14651391
It's not difficult. Eat mostly whole foods rather than refined stuff. There's a lot of other factors that probably don't make much of a difference. Eliminating refined oils/fats and added sugars will fix a lot of issues.

>>14652306
>I'm not talking about lactose intolerance. I'm talking about organ inflammation.
Dairy can be anti-inflammatory if there's no associated allergies.

>>14652425
>Skinless chicken breast is the best.
Poultry can be very inflammatory. It's weird how you say diet is individualistic, and then paint with such a broad stroke like chicken is great and dairy is terrible.

>>14653567
Debatable.

>>14653576
I never said diary is terrible read what I said here.
>>14652369

Because you failed to read it I will say it again or are intentionally being hyperbolic I write it again. For the average person it doesn't matter. The average person eats like shit. For professional athletes I recommend all of them to stop eating all processed grains and consuming all diary.

Do you understand now? You aren't an athlete you're a random guy.

>>14653614
>I never said diary is terrible read what I said here.
Here's what you said...
>>14652306
>Your genetics can not prevent diary from causing that inflammation it's documented in everyone.
You're claiming it causes inflammation in everyone (which sounds terrible), and then promoting chicken, which is one of the highest dietary sources of arachidonic acid. I eat some chicken (and dairy), both have benefits and flaws, but to say that one is inflammatory in everyone, and one is the best source of protein for everyone, is absurd.

You then point out that it's the fatty acids that are the issue >>14653127.

Are you >>14652596 as well? I'm skeptical you have any clue what you're talking about if you believe people can't get lean while consuming dairy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4963870/
>Conclusions: Increased dairy intake as part of energy restricted diets resulted in greater loss in bodyweight and fat mass while attenuating lean mass loss in 18–50-year-old adults. Further research in males is needed to investigate sex effects.

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/114/6/2025/6388163
>Our results suggest that although changing from whole-fat to reduced-fat dairy products does reduce dairy fat intake, it does not result in changes to markers of adiposity or cardiometabolic disease risk in healthy children.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23320900/
>A high intake of dairy fat was associated with a lower risk of central obesity and a low dairy fat intake was associated with a higher risk of central obesity.

>>14652401
>Not eggs
Good larp

Bump

>>14651391
Jews.

>>14651463
>moralfags prevent effective study conditions
Since 2020 this hasn't been true

>>14652044


racist whites


black peoples actions are
a SYMPTOM to white
"supremacy"

>>14652369
>a diet with no inflammation
How do you do this. I've looked at low inflammatory diets, and it's just a mess of "eat this" from one and "don't eat this" from another. One says "never nightshades", the next doesn't even mention them.
Every special diet is like this, you'd have equivalent luck throwing darts at a food chart.

How do you test for this exactly?

>>14652482
>So many physical and psychological issues people have are fixable with the right diet for that person
Yes, but finding the right diet is a process in almost endless frustration. There's always something else that could be an issue, and something else you need to substitute for it that could also be an issue.
It's a lifetime process.

>>14653129
>only ever cook in coconut oil or ghee
No olive, avocado?

>>14653896
>Increased dairy intake as part of energy restricted diets resulted in greater loss in bodyweight
That's not health, that's losing weight.
>from whole-fat to reduced-fat dairy products...markers of adiposity or cardiometabolic disease
There's more to dairy than fat: lactose and casein come to mind, and casein in particular has inflammatory issues for people.

>>14652722
How old are you ?

>>14653519
>Shut the fuck up, shill. Corn (maize) is fucking awful for the diet, unless you're eating corn tortillas or corn on the cob, its just gonna get stuck in your intestinal tract and fuck your shit up.

The point is more the quantity of vitamins and minerals, goy.

>>14656309
>No olive
You shouldn't cook with olive oil due to it's low smoke point. It's fine though to have it with a salad or only enough to make something like a garlic+olive oil sauce (which is at relatively low heat). Olive oil in many places outside of the mediterranian though is often adulterated with safflower oil. You should avoid it unless you can get the real thing (100% olive oil).
>avocado
If you actually get 100% avacado oil yes. But like Olive oil, it's often adulterated with safflower oil.
>That's not health, that's losing weight.
Losing weight in terms of body fat is often part of becoming healthy as fat being stored between muscles can weaken them since they're so stretched out. Excess weight, especially from excess body fat, is bad for your joints.

>>14651860
>>14651889
Real health is eating meats and other foods that you are evolved to subsist on. It's not that hard to figure it out.

>>14656355
35.
I've spent my 20s feeling like shit.

>>14656494
I'm 31, my experience are almost same to you. when I was approaching 30 Im start to feeling allergic to many foods. Many triggered my acid reflux.

>>14651864
current state of 4chan

>>14653545
who are you quoting

>>14655422
"moralfags" have never prevented anything from happening

>>14653560
Isn't the diet that lab animals get 100% "refined"

>>14652693
Why don't you sell a multivitamin that contains the deficit

>>14652596
>below 8%
LOL

>>14651942
I doubt it's that. Nta, but we're not built for liquids only digestion.

>>14652306
Iron intake causes inflammation as well, but we still need it. Sometimes it's just a natural part of eating.

>>14656309
>That's not health, that's losing weight.
You (or the other anon) were stating dairy is ALWAYS inflammatory and prevents getting lean. I provided multiple studies showing it didn't inhibit fat loss or increase several inflammatory markers.

>There's more to dairy than fat: lactose and casein come to mind, and casein in particular has inflammatory issues for people.
Ugh.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jafc.0c03337
>The impact of meat protein on metabolic regulation is still disputed and may be influenced by protein level. This study aimed to explore the effects of casein, pork, and chicken proteins at different protein levels (40% E vs 20% E) on body weight regulation, body fat accumulation, serum hormone levels, and inflammatory factors/metabolites in rats maintained on high-fat (45% E fat) diets for 84 d. Increased protein levels resulted in a significant reduction in body fat mass and an increase in the serum levels of the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10, independent of protein source. Analysis of blood via untargeted metabolomics analysis identified eight, four, and four metabolites significantly altered by protein level, protein source, and a protein level–source interaction, respectively. Together, the effects of casein, chicken, and pork protein on the regulation of body fat accumulation and blood metabolite profile are largely dependent on protein level and less attributable to the protein source.

>>14651391
>WHY THE FUCK IS NUTRITION SCIENCE SO SHITTY?

Because human are omnivorous and can live on just about anything AND our ancestors often when a long time between meals so our bodies are very good at storing nutrients.

>>14652425
>considered a genius in sports science
Calling a LARP here.
Rippetoe wrote a book for beginners, that's his only contribution to sports science. His advice is also just a repeat of "The strongest shall survive" by Bill Starr.

>>14651391
Because food companies don't want you to know how shit and dangerous their products are.

>>14651391
there are no issues with all foods

cholesterol is healthy


only too much refined sugar and horseshit sorcery juju meds especially (((anti anxiety et al pills) is le bad a bit but your body can auto cleanse it safely instantly

>>14651423
Why isnt this just subsidized? Seems like one of the best things we could do for humanity over the next few hundred years.

>>14651942
>onions tards
Problem?

>>14651391
>>14652211
>>14652562
>>14652693
>>14653127

>Makes you seethe:
http://www.travelswithug.com/ug-cookbook.php

>>14652586
>>14657174
/Thread

This thread reads like a lot of bullshit, exactly what OP is complaining about
>milk bad
>refined grains bad
Alright then redpill on how to live to 100 by ditching bread and pasta and milk lol
Eating anything is bad if you consider that you are introducing foreign stuff into your system

>>14651463
>moralfags prevent effective study conditions
based amoral researcher

>>14652693
These lab physicians are doing their best but it's in no way guaranteed that human would live to 100 on this - and add a complication of actually composing a palatable and affordable diet with this composition. "Nutritionally complete" diet for cats is being tested on cats for 6 months - give me a break.
Btw, when I visited my over 90 years old uncle my first instinct was to start giving him "scientific" nutritional advices, but I had bitten my tongue and asked HIM what he ate. Unique things in his diet was that he always went extra mile to buy unpasteurized milk (about a liter per day) and honey - also straight from the farmer. Besides that he was a decent cook with quite fancy recipes, was regularly dining out and he really liked alcohol till the end. Quit smoking in his 50s, had a heart pacer since his 70s, lived till 96 FWIW.

>>14657758
cont. dining out in my country doesn't mean fast food but a traditional lunch with two meals - a soup plus main meal of potatoes plus meat or fish and some salad or other vegies. He didn't like sweets.

>>14655422
lol

>>14651463
Then take the relativity approach instead of classical nutrition.

>>14657120
>rat study...
>low genetic diversity, as always
>1 study
>study on macro balance with inflammatory markers secondary issue
>singular result rather than breakdown by subgroups
>many people claim casein causes them issues still, but ignore because above
ugh

This is not how to science.
This is why nutrition science is such a mess.
There's a million intake variables and a million expression variables, and everyone has a different set of each in practice.
80% of people can have zero issues with X, and any study on X will more or less find that "X has no impact".
X still causes low-grade chronic issues for the 20%, with severe and obviously clinical issues for 1-2%.
"But this study on rats"

>>14657737
Just eat what your body can process and in a reasonable amount.
>>14657758
It's easy to live(survive) up to 90 along with a shitton of sickness and pain.

>>14651391
>You thought the replication crisis is terrible? Wait until you get interested in nutrition
true. it is hard to digest

>>14657370
Because shitty evidence can be used to claim anything. There's a lot of risk and little reward for actually doing shit right.

>>14659922
Cool, why don't you get started on that study on humans from infancy to elderly? I look forward to the results in 80 years.

>>14659922
>X still causes low-grade chronic issues for the 20%, with severe and obviously clinical issues for 1-2%.
BTW, this is going to be true of any food you try. It's a good reason why every individual needs to experiment with foods and find what's right for them. But your complaints basically mean there's no reason to study diets, because there's always going to be that 20%, so why find out results for the general population if you're going to point out "but what about the people it doesn't work for!?"

>>14651391
Google "American heart association sponsors" and you'll find out why.

I know they love to keep saying that whole grains May reduce heart disease, but there is absolutely no evidence at all to say that

I took an entry level nutrition class because I had to and it was literally just 8 weeks of "brown people eat this, white people eat this"

>>14661397
To make if funnier there is a decent chance that whole grains are bad for you because anti-nutrients (phytates) are concentrated in the bran and going through the hops of removing it was actually making grains more nutritious - and easier on the stomach.
At some point the "nutrition science" has developed enough to burn the grains, scan the ashes (or whatever) and conclude that we should eat the whole grains because the ashes of those had more minerals; the absolute level.
And now they cannot take it back to not immediately look like a bunch of idiots yet again,

>>14651391
just don't think too much about food. eat a balanced diet and don't overcomplicate it

>>14651391
Subspecies evolved to intake different diets. Nordics are very unlikely to be lactose intolerant. They are more likely to have celiac disease though.

>>14661516
he probably lives in america where that is a recipe to inevitable failure

>>14651391
make an infographic and structurate the stuff
>>14651463
this

>>14651391
Food corporations pay for results that they can use to advertise themselves.

>>14651391
It always pisses me off how people have always been saying that this product is bad or other is unhealthy without providing any sourse/reason/rationale. It's often said that energy drinks, Mcdonald etc.. are bad for you.. and that's it.
Almost nobody will say that Mcdonald products consist of trans-fats that give you pregnant belly/gyno or that caffeine in energy drinks in the long run lowers absorption of many important microelements and tightens blood vessels within the brain.

>>14656415
>is eating meats and other foods that you are evolved to subsist on.
correction: eating meats from animal not in captivity and other foods that haven't been artificially modified and pumped full of medics
what is hard is finding those and being able to afford
Most people can only buy modern slave slop that was engineered specifically to sustain large masses of slaves.

Nutrition "scientists" are by and large health food nuts / lifestyle obsessives. That is, they are overly concerned with 'image' rather than facts. It's "science" for over 40s with midlife crises and people too stupid to go into medicine or even basic biological science / physiotherapy. It's also a largely commercial enterprise, so the "science" is driven by not what is most factual but rather by what sells best.

Truly, it's the perfect storm of cult cargo scientism.

>>14651391
This is why I'm signing up for nutrition science. I need to solve this mess.

>>14652351
bump for interest

>>14656415
>and other foods that you are evolved to subsist on
spiders?

>>14651855
Stop trying to kill this anon. Eat meat, milk, eggs, fruits, and some veggies. Your welcome.

>>14651901
You now have micronutrient deficiencies. Also you must be very weak.

>>14652266
Yes, you are a mammal.

>>14652271
You are incompetent at your job, dairy is absolutely essential for athletes.

>>14652044
prison populations are not very representative of society as a whole so that immediatly biases the results, not that it woulnt be a good idea but its not a silver bullet by a long shot

>>14652369
For the love of God no one listen to this man. I am not sure if you are trolling but cutting dairy from an athlete's diet is nonsensical, you clearly have not trained elite athletes. Aside from abundant micronutrients needed for performance (calcium, magnesium, iodine, etc.), dairy has all three macronutrients as well. The problem with nutritional science is reproducibility, you can find research to support almost any opinion of a food, and the research was likely of a poor quality. Most nutritional science is not currently conducted adequately enough to be useful.

>>14652562
On the contrary, you have shown a diet for a primate in a lab. How is this proof of nutritional science being reproducible or sufficient? This diet was chosen using the same bad science that is found in the literature.

>>14657758
>These lab physicians are doing their best but it's in no way guaranteed that human would live to 100 on this

One of the issues with lab diets is that they need to provide enough B vitamins to overcome the possibility of the animal being used in sterile-gut studies.

It's well known that mice engage in coprophagia, poop eating, and if they are not allowed to do this, then they die of lack of vitamin. So, your uncle might have good gut bacteria. Also, things like eating protein consumes vitamins, or increases the requirement.

What was his size? most people who live to be that old are tiny little guys.

>>14657758
>"Nutritionally complete" diet for cats is being tested on cats for 6 months - give me a break.

Also, this is ridiculous. Most pet foods are formulated similarly to what I posted above, and pets tend to lead long, consistently healthy lives if you just feed them according to the instructions on the chow.

My mom has had dogs, and she never over-feeds them, doesnt give them table scraps. They never really had any health problems until well after the average age at which the breeds die.

My dad, on the other hand, feels te dog is his "buddy" and will give him a bit of everything he eats, plus the regular food. His dogs all had health problems well before old age.

>>14662726
>How is this proof of nutritional science being reproducible or sufficient? This diet was chosen using the same bad science that is found in the literature.

The point I am making is that if you look at human nutrition science, it lags well behind veterinary/agricultural nutrition science.

Crops fail = loss
Animals in labs fail = loss
Humans fail = PROFIT FOR (((doctors)))

With humans, the goal is to pretend 100% of people can be healthy with a "healthy, balanced diet."

Most people's dogs who are fed the N cups/day of the food they buy at the pet food store are fairly healthy and active. Very few lose hair like humans; very few develop diabetes, etc. etc.

Another example is choline, which was known to be essential in dogs int he 1930s. It was not declared essential for humans until 1998.

>>14651391
First off look how many chiral centers chloesterol has... A fuck ton. Second, fatty acids build up in different ways.

>>14661378
>science takes 80 years
>but I want results now
>let's trust bs studies with rodents!
picrel

>>14661389
There's a reason to study diets intelligently. Rat studies with a singular output are not intelligent. I'd be interested in a meta-study of all rat studies that went on to full phase trials in humans, and how reliable they were. I haven't see any, but I'm guessing it's a poor predictor.

We have some longitudinal studies, like Harvard Nurses. They're noisy by nature.
A better way to approach short-term studies is to run once, re-randomize, run again, maybe a third+ time, see if specific individuals/groups are coming up "good"/"bad" in each, then you can start talking about cohorts instead of mass generalizations, and doing genetic studies on the bad cohorts to suss out what might be prompting their unusual outcomes.

I'm sure an actual scientist have and can improve upon that methodology, but the specific study anon posted was not quality. I'm just pointing that out, which proceeded from his prior incorrect generalizations about milk fat being the sole issue with milk, alongside conflating optimal health and optimal weightloss. He's generalizing a lot. I'm saying don't do that and don't trust trash studies to inform your knowledge base. Not saying there isn't the possibility for good studies, but they are rare, and science does take decades even for simple issues to get resolved, so patience and don't jump to conclusions.

Do you think that rat study means anything?

>>14663087
Yep, he was a small guy, 160 cm give or take (5'3"). Interesting that, while not generally being obese, he always had a noticeable belly. One would expect any fat deposits to be detrimental.

>>14662083
>people have always been saying that this product is bad or other is unhealthy without providing any sourse/reason/rationale
90% of people don't think like you, anon. They just process what the screen tells them and do their best to not look stupid to all the other people that listen to the TV for their info. It's a bare minimum intellect threshold.
I think mostly only people with advanced degrees or STEM grads care much about this stuff, and in my experience even that's a crapshoot.

Generally, if you're not trained to do X or appreciate X, you won't, as far as academic concerns go. Most people aren't so trained.

>>14662119
>Nutrition "scientists" are by and large health food nuts / lifestyle obsessives...midlife crises
I think there's a certain percentage of people that are just interested in improving themselves and their health, and there's the fact that we generally don't start listening to academics and scientists until they hit mid-life as it takes a while to build up a career and network and for the old guard to retire/die. Combine the two, you get this part of science.

That said, there's definitely some midlife crisis and obsession in the laity. I have some good friends that are [that type], and every time we get together, I'm subjected to 30-60 minutes of health lectures based mostly on Youtube videos like Huberman's they've seen recently. I say that as someone that's generally concerned about his health but generally don't feel the need to proselytize. They do, hard.
And yoga, always always you must do yoga or you clearly don't care about your health. If you don't listen to my health guru, clearly you don't care about your health. You must watch his videos, watch my videos!
If you ignore them, they get low-key offended.
It's tiresome.

>>14663092
This has not been my experience, moreover in some main veterinary textbook they openly admit that they don't know yet what a diet for longevity should look like (but - not-surprisingly - they insists on feeding pets with commercial food).
Also, "the average age at which the breeds die" just means the age at which pets fed with _commercial food_ die - some individuals can live twice as long. This is the equivalent of being proud of human's average lifespan of 50 years..

>>14662691
For basic metabolic functions (in men at least), they're good enough.

>>14663239
Haven't you tried yoga?
Why don't you try yoga?
You'll never be healthy without yoga!
>I have, it wasn't for me
WELL YOU DIDN'T TRY HARD ENOUGH
YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR HEALTH
YOU'D KNOW THAT IF YOU TRIED YOGA
>I meditate separately from exercise, you should consider mindfulness meditation on its own, it's better that way
That's not yoga! You're not exercising enough!
>I work in the trades, I exercise all day
That's not real exercise, like YOGA!

>>14663283
I did yoga at the local Y, I would go in the morning and they had a "gentle Yoga" class that was like me and 5 seniors, taught by a local nursing student. Good times.

"Wow, anon, you have such broad shoulders, here, let me reposition you..."

>>14663199
>Do you think that rat study means anything?
Absolutely. By what mechanism would casein be inflammatory in humans and not in rats? Do we have different digestive enzymes? I eat a lot of milk and cheese, and my CRP is at the bottom of the range. Is that through magic? The primary mechanism I can think of that would cause people to struggle with dairy is terrible digestion. I'll add that food sensitivities are likely due to the same issue, as are allergies in general. So is dairy the issue, or does it expose the poor health of many people?

>>14652211
Yes, much of health in general is very individualistic, which is why doctors can be so frustrating with the way it's hammered into them to just assign everything to a specific generalization of symptoms.

You get someone with something unusual come along and since they don't fit into any of the presets nothing will be done about their problems unless something serious happens. This is why there's so, so many cases of ADHD, these untreated issues over time will cause cognitive fatigue and other problems eventually leading to all the symptoms of ADHD.

My dad has unexplained blood pressure issues, they only did tests on him once he had a few episodes where he passed out in the middle of the night and hit his head. I have a lot of weird completely unexplained symptoms and nothing is done about them because there isn't any immediate threat to my present health.

And guess what, both I and my dad are diagnosed with ADHD when I'm quite sure the real culprit is undiagnosed neurological issues.

>>14651391
>cholesterol
The issue is that these studies are asking this like "how much cholesterol is good?" But low cholesterol can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on WHAT IS CAUSING IT. Low cholesterol can mean that you don't have enough cholesterol to make your hormones, but it can also just mean that your hormone synthesis is working well and not being inhibited by hypothyroidism. You can't just ask if something is good or bad because you usually have to peel back many layers of causation to uncover things that are actually strictly good or bad. Even the very notion of good and bad is quite unscientific, but it's what we demand out of nutrition science since the main purpose of nutrition science is to make dietary recommendations. Anyway, I am convinced that a large reason it's as shitty as it is is corporate interest. The food companies just want to sell us shit with a cheap of ingredients as possible.

>Want to make and sell my own supplements.
>Have a vague idea of what I'm doing, but think I should ask a doctor for help.
>Doctor recommends I see a dietitian.
>Dietitian seems confused by all of my nutrition questions and tells me I'm fat and that I need to stop consuming artificial sweeteners and go on a low glycemic index diet.
>Billed $180
>Get told about a Nutritionist by someone else

Should I just skip these medical faggots altogether and go straight to the private label manufacturer?

>>14665167
Capitalism can be funny sometimes

>>14665167
Majority of doctors are only good for diagnosing and solving common problems, you bring anything else up you'll confuse them.

I assume the whole thing went something like you asked the doc what would be good supplements to include in your stock for your customers, doc didn't know how to respond and instead takes the question as "what would be good supplements for me" the doc thinks you are getting too ahead of yourself asking for supplements and instead you should stop consuming artificial sweeteners, etc, before you try supplements; doc is completely oblivious to the fact that he/she completely ignored your whole question, just thinking forward to the next patient.

You're better off asking about that stuff in related forums or asking a professor. I got all my knowledge on the topic just by browsing places like r/nootropics, r/supplements, r/DrugNerds, etc; r/NootropicsDepot might be useful to you, the owner of the company is very active there and often details many of the processes that go on in his company.

>>14665215
>Majority of doctors are only good for diagnosing and solving common problems, you bring anything else up you'll confuse them.
Yeah, that's exactly what happened. I was asking a dietitian questions a nutrition scientist might understand, and his eyes just glazed over because it was clear he didn't understand a thing I was talking about.

>>14664316
All your problems are fixed now, anon, for you have done the yoga.
I found it took all my concentration not to get a chub with a bunch of hot ass younger women doing downward dog or whatever right in my face. Seniors might have been better desu. Either way, not my cup of tea.

>>14664773
>By what mechanism would casein be inflammatory in humans and not in rats?
How many genes have humans added in, how many differences are there in epigenetic expression between two totally different Orders?
I don't know how you can handwave that away, but you did. However simple you think digestion is, it's 10x more complex.
Rat studies are just that thing we do to make sure X is not super poisonous before moving on to phase trials. Phase trials themselves are often inconsequential or unreliable in the singular, even often being a bit confused and unclear at the metastudy level, because you're trying to pick apart one variable out of millions from a tangled web of biology that resists simplification.
Remember that genetics is essentially a machine learning program for survival with roughly 3,000,000,000 variables and near-infinite different combinations of those. Asking how rats and humans could have different sensitivities because they share similar pathways seems based in a desire to avoid all that complexity for some lego-simple textbook flowchart logic.
>I eat a lot of milk and cheese, and my CRP is at the bottom of the range. Is that through magic?
Nutrition is a highly individualized process due to the vast amount of genetic and expressive variables between any two people. You are not understanding this.

>>14665348
Yeah, you need to go to a research center if local specialists are failing you.
Dieticians/nutritionists are primarily for athletics and fatsos that think mountain dew is health food.
The one I saw came with a yellowed food chart from the 80s.
That was from a prestigious health network in a major metro.
It's a total crapshoot discipline, though many other specialties have comprehension ceilings that are far lower than you'd expect, like neurology.
They can remove a tumor (maybe), but trying to solve a complex, vague issue is mostly hopeless or a long process of personal trial and error, perhaps without any solution.

>>14666842
>Yeah, you need to go to a research center if local specialists are failing you.
The only research center I know of near me is https://www.emetabolic.com/ and they look just about as useless.

>>14662716
t. Based dermatologist trying to sell more products.

>>14666831
>However simple you think digestion is, it's 10x more complex.
It's genuinely not. It's really straight forward actually, just a bunch of enzymes that cleave the food matrix, along with bile and HCL. Things only go off the rails when a person is limited in one of the three. How many very healthy people have you met who didn't have great digestion? How many people have you met who had a significant amount of allergies who could barely eat anything without issue? Digestion is basically a requirement for good health, and good health leads to superior digestion. So a decline in one will affect the other.

>Nutrition is a highly individualized process due to the vast amount of genetic and expressive variables between any two people.
Possibly in terms of macros. You shouldn't be reacting negatively to protein that has been appropriately hydrolyzed during digestion. Inflammation and allergies are a result of undigested protein passing into the bloodstream, at which point it's a foreign body that the immune system will attack.

>>14651463
>moralfags
More like the cost of housing people in a box for months to measure the effects of diet

>>14652558
you're, based