/sci/ - Science & Math

inb4 heart problems

>>1460930
This is Chewbacca.

>Chewbacca lives on Endor

Enjoying the docility OP? fucking sheep. Way to submit to government mind control. DONT DRINK TAP WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!

should have used this image OP

>Chewbacca is from Kashyyyk

Honest question, /sci/.

Is it a good idea to use fluoridated water to water plants, or should I be aware of some plants that would be negatively affected by it?

what about the picture of darth vader in the sea?

Have you ever conspiracy'd so hard you tinfoil'd?

>>1460968
No. But I know we shouldn't put fluoride in water.

drstrangelove.jpg

>>1460977
>>1460958
Did you guys know that carbon can bond with nitrogen to make poison?

I'm serious guiz we should avoid anything having carbon or nitrogen in it

>>1460968
>>1460977

ever not looked at a picture of it that says "Toxic by ingestion"?

And before you say "hurr its fine in microscopic amounts" , it builds up as a cumulative poison.

>>1460968
That reply won't work for this, due to the fact that it's actually based upon evidence and not just assumptions.

>>1460930
derp

>>1460986

fucking moron. youre injesting the compound directly. If it were "dont drink Sodium and Fluorine because they might bond" that would be a different issue.

>>1460992
Yes the same way global warming deniers and truthers have evidence. The same way there's so much evidence we never landed on the moon

I like how no evidence from a respected source has been presented that shows water fluoridation to have any real negative effect.

>>1461003
I didn't even mention that..

>>1460930
Water fluoridation you say??

>>1461002
I'm not such a fucking moron that I don't know solubility rules.

If it's in water you're not ingesting NaF

Yeah yeah, we heard it all before, if the fluoridated water doesn't destroy the world, then it's the commie space nigger zombies or the japs igniting the sun into a giant doobie that does us in.

Quick, OP. Next post the one about something retarded a fundie might say about the world and how the situation is one point in the fundies favor.

>>1461002
>injesting the compound directly
>dissolute ions

>>1461002
>implying sodium fluoride is more toxic than [any positive ion] fluoride

>>1461002
>>1461019
>>1461018
>>1461013

Oh snap, chemistry owned

inb4 Alex Jones

AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

How exactly would your teeth "absorb" the F- ions anyway? It's just some salt with a large empirical formula containing calcium, fluoride and other crap, but you dont just add some fluorine to your teeh.

I've been arguing with a shill for the past 2 weeks. He posts enough comments to fill up screen, then I must do the same. Where do they get these guys? He won't stop with the ad hominems now.

>>1461012

This has gone way past pants-on-head retarded.

>>1461018

You're still injesting fluorine which is toxic.

>>1461313
Florine should chemically behave nearly the exact same way as chlorine. Do you disapprove of putting table salt in things too?

>>1461327

Except periodic trends are a rule of thumb, and not definitive chemical law.

>>1461327
>Florine should chemically behave nearly the exact same way as chlorine.

And yet it does not.

>>1461227
Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

>>1461341
Except in the 1st and 7th column they almost always behave the same. If this were...say Bromine I might concede that point but F and Cl are nearly identical

>>1461012
>>1461227
>>1461356
I fucking love that film

>>1461355
And which slight difference do you claim leads to toxicity

>>1461327

no, but ive heard that fluorine builds up in your body as it is hard to get rid of and thats why its supposedly bad. was that a lie?

>Water fluoridation is good for you, because it makes your teeth stronger, and has no negatives.

Agreed. So what?

>>1461363

Most fucking electronegative element on the periodic table.

>>1461357

Fluoride is toxic. This has been proven, people have died. The question is whether or not the amount in drinking water is bad.

>>1461364
Most flourocompounds are insoluble, but most are also inert....

>>1461390

No. We're talking about fluoride salts, not fluorocarbons.

>>1461378
True, which means, in its oxidised state, the F- ions, it's one of the worst reductors, do it really doesn't do much. F2 does, it wants to reduce anything.

>>1461378
So it's electronically reacting with what exactly

>>1461379
Yes there are a lot of compounds that are toxic (like, big surprise here OXYGEN), but the amount of exposure in drinking water is way too small to pose any substantial threat

>>1461398
well if we're talking about fluoride salts then what we're really talking about is F-

>>1461400
Holy shit, that was the most retarded thing I've read today.
Protip: Look up what "reduce" means.

>>1461390
Suck my cock nigger

>>1461407

Welcome to the thread.

All chemicals have a maximum acceptable value, and also an LD50 value. There are no exceptions, not even water.

Why is fluoride the only thing that ruffles feathers because it is poisonous in high values? Chlorides, carbonates, silicates, nitrates/nitrites, phosphates, and the various other trace chemicals in tap water ALL become poisonous if you ingest too much of them.

>>1461418

this is science shithead. Chemisty, Biological Effects...gb2 your religion thread

>>1461401
>So it's electronically reacting with what exactly

Calcium, enzymes, etc.

Also,
>electronically reacting

derp

The question that it comes down to. If there was a giant conspiracy to poison us slowly. And that is a vary big if. Why would they want to poison their workforce? It sounds so counter productive to be killing off the people that keep the system working.

>>1461409
Protip: how many valence electrons would F- have

>>1461432

Fluoride is much more toxic than all of those.

>>1461434

Oh wow.
You know, iron is also toxic and we have it in our very BLOOD!!!! Call the tabloids!!!!
Also calcium, carbon, phosphorus, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen. Also there's lethal bacteria on our SKIN AND IN OUR GI TRACT OH THE HORROR THE HORROR

As I've told before, me and millions of finnish kids have gotten fluoride tablets to strengthen our teeth. This has gone on for at least the past fifty years.

So excuse me if some internet-'professional' claiming fluoridated water is dangerous seems fucking retarded to me.

>>1461432

Because its argued that its particularly hard for the body to rid itself of it, so that even small amounts over time make it a problem.

>>1461444

you sure told me.

>>1461435
No, I'm saying which compounds can fluoride react with that chloride cannot.

You claim there is some major difference so I sort of figured you knew what the hell you were talking about

>>1461450

>>1461440
[citation needed]

>>1461446
>me and millions of finnish kids have gotten fluoride tablets to strengthen our teeth

And I bet you believe your teeth have been strengthened.

>>1461461
>believe
No its call fact when its true. For a fact fluoride strengthens teeth.

>>1461448
>particularly hard to rid itself of
>dissolves in water

Yeah, if only there was some system of carrying bad compounds out of the body via water...that would really be special

>>1461452

Goddamn you're fucking ignorant. Obviously you haven't taken many chemistry courses in your life.

>>1461439
All right, I'll spell it out for you.
F2: Oxidation state 0.
F-: Oxidation state -1. This is its REDUCED state, since -1 < 0.

>>1461468

Only if you apply it directly (like with a tooth brush). Otherwise no.

>>1461473
I've taken enough to know that the amount of things F- reacts with that Cl- doesn't is so incredibly small that you've already gotten flustered and are just spouting insults

>>1461472
I have created such a way!
I shall call this way of evacuating liquid waste........

[drumroll]

...GRXBLLLTING!!!!

>I've taken enough to know that the amount of things F- reacts with that Cl- doesn't is so incredibly small that you've already gotten flustered and are just spouting insults

Well, in that case try keeping your hydrofluoric acid in a glass bottle, and see what happens. Do us all a favor.

>>1461478
Oh I thought you we're talking about it being a bad reducer, didn't see the typo

>my facial expression to this thread

>>1461496
>F2 wants to reduce anything
>the typo
>reduce anything
You're full of shit.

>>1461486

see:
>>1461495

>>1461485
>Only if you apply it directly (like with a tooth brush). Otherwise no.
I like how you are wrong and i have professionals to back me up saying that it works.
http://cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5014a1.htm

>>1460968

Haha. Brilliant!

>>1461506
>>1461495
So you're saying the thing F- reacts with that Cl- doesn't is......

Hydrogen

Yeah, never hear of HCl, that would be a really hard acid to make...

There have been studies that show that places with flouride in the water the condition of teeth is noticably improved. There is no correlation in any illnesses.

No, I won't post a source because i pulled this from the very deepest cavity of my arse.

>>1461526
>No, I won't post a source because i pulled this from the very deepest cavity of my arse.
http://cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5014a1.htm

>>1461505
Now I'm just confused, what point are you trying to make here

>>1461518

How many of those professionals are directly or indirectly (through government) backed by the aluminium industry, and how many are just not competent enough?

>>1461541
It's still a lot more scientists than the 0 studies your side has produced

>>1461525

You MUST be a troll.

>>1461541
Where is your counter proof then that proves them wrong if you think that is the case. These people have demonstrable evidence going for them. Studies research whatnot. You have yet to provide any sources for your argument.

>>1461549
Nice retort...

>>1461549
No I'm afraid I'm but a simple chemist teaching some tinfoil hats a lesson about making unsubstantiated claims...

My teeth do 50 reps each of push-ups and sit-ups, then wolf down a fluoride shake. HELL YEAH THEY'RE STRONG!

>>1461546
Some interesting stuff here:
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/

>>1461576
>claim actual scientific studies are "biased"
>then link a site called the "fluoride action network"

And you don't see how I'm not really going to take this serious?

>>1461586
>can't read the content of the site
>criticize the name instead

Obviously.

>>1461576
Does the person on the website have a PHD in Dentistry? How long did they go to school?

And did you notice how non of his sources on his website don't have PHD's as well? I don't trust this webpage because no one has studied Dentistry on there. They all just have a gut feeling that its wrong with no demonstrable evidence going for them.

See this is a real work of science here you can tell because the people have degrees in the field in question.
http://cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5014a1.htm

>1461525
HA HA HA, OH WOW
I bet that made every chemist in the vicinity facepalm.

>>1461596
>criticize scientists for "working for the aluminum industry"
>zomg why won't you take my organization seriously

>>1461609
Then they deleted their post LULZ

>>1461609
>>

or just click the post number

>>1461599
>PHD in Dentistry

Yeah, because someone with a PhD in dentistry knows the effects of fluoride on the body...

lol

Does a filter (Brita, for example) let fluoride pass through it?

>>1461642
Yes because fluoride is one of their areas of study. Naturally they would need to know what it does to you.

>>1461647

yes.

>Fluoride's ability to damage the brain represents one of the most active areas of research on fluoride toxicity today.

>Concern about fluoride's impact on the brain has been fueled by 18 human studies (from China, Mexico, India, and Iran) reporting IQ deficits among children exposed to excess fluoride, by 4 human studies indicating that fluoride can enter, and damage, the fetal brain; and by a growing number of animal studies finding damage to brain tissue (at levels as low as 1 ppm) and impairment of learning and memory among fluoride-treated groups.

>According to the US National Research Council, "it is apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain."


Government is clearly weakening our intellectual capacity in order to make the machinations of the NWO less obvious to the common man.

>>1461652
>Naturally they would need to know what it does to you.

No. They are dentists, not biochemists.

>>1461659
>>1461659
>>1461659
FFFFUUUUUUU

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/index.html#animal2
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/varner-1998.pdf

The animal studies have also documented considerable evidence of direct toxic effects of fluoride on brain tissue, even at levels as low as 1 ppm fluoride in water (Varner 1998). These effects include:

-- reduction in nicotinic acetylcholine receptors;
-- reduction in lipid content;
-- impaired anti-oxidant defense systems;
-- damage to the hippocampus;
-- damage to the purkinje cells;
-- increased uptake of aluminum;
-- formation of beta-amyloid plaques (the classic brain abnormality in Alzheimer's disease);
-- exacerbation of lesions induced by iodine deficiency; and
-- accumulation of fluoride in the pineal gland.

>>1461662
What is the definition of "excess flouride" and did these studies have to do with flouridated water or just flouride in general?

We've already established here that excessive amounts of fluoride can damage the body, just like how excessive levels of most metals and other group 7 compounds can

>>1461667
>No. They are dentists
So you have gone through a school of dentistry to tell me its not an area of study? Or are you just saying that because you think it? Because this study
http://cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5014a1.htm
that was done by dentists says you are wrong.

>>1461684
1ppm is way higher that any fluoridated water I've ever seen

>>1461662
>make the machinations of the NWO less obvious

It's more likely that they try to get rid of excessive fluoride waste from the aluminium industry.

>>1461685
>>1461685
It said in excess of 1 ppm (parts per million), and the study was indeed focused on fluoridated water.

>>1461692

Dentists don't care about what fluoride does to anything in your body other than your teeth.

>>1461713
Yes and coronary doctors don't know anything about the body but the heart.

When you're ready to start discussing the real world we'll be here

>>1461697

thats the fucking problem debating this. some people are just concerned that there may have been a misjudgement on how safe/beneficial it is, while others make it about a grand scheme to make people stupid or say "ITS WASTE THEREFORE ITS BAD".

>>1461713
>Dentists don't care about what fluoride does to anything in your body other than your teeth.
You are entitled to your own opinion but factually you are wrong. They do study fluorides effects on the body because i have proof in that link and in other studies.

>>1461731
Its the public science cycle

Actual Study > Minor claim > minor claim becomes major claim > conspiracy built around claim > anything of value to gain from study becomes buried in NWO/Illuminati/Freemason bullshit