/sci/ - Science & Math

It is very real. Especially in intelligent people it is often not identified during childhood because they can find a way to get acceptable grades, while the average to dumb people literally cannot cope.
Also, it has a strong genetic component. So if your parents or siblings have it and you notice some symptoms, you should get tested.

How big is his benis

>>14611280
Yes it's real. And it's correlated with schizophrenia and pedophilia.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11602921/

>>14611280
Internet addiction is probably the main problem for ADHD peeps. We don't know how to stop, and researching random stuff at a surface level gives us massive dopamine hits.

ADHD is a symptom of bad lifestyle choices. thinking you're born with it is the same as thinking you're born transgender. people are born with certain affinities and when the brain can't satisfy those it seeks other things like internet addiction to cope. people aren't built to live the lives they're living or learn every subject in school intended to appeal to the broadest population.

>>14611366
My brain simply isn't built for modern civilization.

>>14611280
Holy fuck those thicc legs and hips make me wanna coooooooom

>>14611366
Retard

>>14611280
>Why do people say it is fake?
Because faggots like the "Autism doesn't exist, reeeee!" troll on here do the same with other neurodiversities.

I'm autistic and I fucked a girl with ADHD. All she fucking does is talk until I'm in sensory overload, and she can stay up days doing it. ADHD is real, autism is real.

ADHD bros, watch out - you will soon have some faggot saying you don't exist and trying to gaslight you into thinking you are a normie. You are not - you are ND and we aspies have your back in the war against neurotypicals.

>>14611451
>All she fucking does is talk until I'm in sensory overload
Sounds like the perfect combo. Let me guess, you are somewhat obsessive, need regular schedules and plan everything? Would drive me insane. I feel like I can only live with ADHD if I don't plan anything and improvise my life as it goes along. Otherwise it's too boring.

>>14611462
>you are somewhat obsessive, need regular schedules and plan everything?
I do suffer from those things, but have gotten more spontaneous and loosened up the routines so they don't run my life.

Autism and ADHD can be comorbid too - it's funny to think about some autistics at war with themselves when their ADHD half wants stimulation. Or ADHD people that suddenly need routine in their life when the aspie fights to takeover their head.

And that ADHD girl adds greatly to my life, it's good to be pushed outside my comfort zone stagnation.

>>14611280
COFFEE IS REALLY GOOD FOR ME WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR COFFEE AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

>>14611534
>Autism and ADHD can be comorbid too -
>There are two wolfs in you. One is retarded, and the other one is also retarded, but differently.
But I can related to that. My girlfriend likes to plan everything well in advance. I have learnt to appreciate this, but sometimes it also pisses me off, when she wants to know if I have time at 5pm on November 17. I don't know? I will start a new job before then, so I have no idea if I can leave early on that day. But even before my diagnosis we concluded that she does the planning for trains when we're travelling together. She wasn't too happy that we caught several trains with less than a minute before they left.

>>14611572
*wolves

>>14611280
ADHD is not real, it is a descriptor for a set of symptoms involving short attention span, resulting from our modern lifestyles. If you work on yourself to improve your level of focus and attention, you won't have ADHD anymore.

>>14611280
Because it is
>implying fidgeting is a disease

>>14611607
This.

>>14611572
>There are two wolfs in you. One is retarded, and the other one is also retarded, but differently.
observe.

>>14611607
>resulting from our modern lifestyles
Sir Alexander Crichton in 1798:
>The incapacity of attending with a necessary degree of constancy to any one object, almost always arises from an unnatural or morbid sensibility of the nerves, by which means this faculty is incessantly withdrawn from one impression to another. It may be either born with a person, or it may be the effect of accidental diseases.
>When born with a person it becomes evident at a very early period of life, and has a very bad effect, inasmuch as it renders him incapable of attending with constancy to any one object of education. But it seldom is in so great a degree as totally to impede all instruction; and what is very fortunate, it is generally diminished with age.

>>14611887
Discussing with an idiot will serve nothing except raise your blood pressure and make the idiot feel happy he got (You)s

>>14611330
It certainly makes a huge feedback loop. I'm strongly starting to consider quitting the majority of internet services. Even now, my productivity is a lot higher with no withdrawal even if I just block shit on my computer (already sanitized my phone).

>>14611366
>>14611607
Motherfuckers, do you understand what the definition of a disorder is?

>>14611280
>Adults with ADHD
ADHDfags give this a read, might make a difference.
https://b-ok.cc/book/1221416/f4ff29

>>14612068
Seems pretty eso and unscientific. Is my impression wrong?

>>14611906
This should be the mantra of the board, or of any internet use.

That's some prime pork.

ITT: drug addicts all agree that their imaginary illnesses are real in order to rationalize a justification for their drug addictions. Group psychosis, chemically induced.

>>14612365
It's covered by health insurance, so can't be that imaginary

>>14611280
ADHD is what happens when psychopaths breed with a normal person.

>>14612365
If I have diagnosed autism, why wasn't I prescribed drugs?
Where's my free government sponsored high god damn it!

>>14611607
>If you work on yourself to improve your level of focus and attention
how

>>14611280
ive clicked on this thread like eight times and this is the first time i actually read the OP

>>14611301
>ADHD
>schizophrenia
>pedophilia
damn, who knew i was so predictable?

>>14611451
Autism is normal. Others suffer from lead deficiency and iron poisoning.
Lead deficiemcy causes the poor sensory processing, and fragmented/distortedcognition.
Iron poisoning causes the agression and inverted reactions.

>>14613516
Neither mph, nor ldx get you high, unless you overdose. And to be honest, even below half the dose that gets you high, I hate the side effects, if I wanted to get high, I'd never abuse my meds. I'd smoke weed like a normal person.

>>14612159
it's just charge balancing

>>14613584
I was being sarcastic, because to be honest, the vast majority of commonly prescribed big pharmaceutical drugs for ANY conditions have mile long lists of side effects that do not make them worth it.

Speaking of which, how do those drugs feel/change your perceptions out of curiosity?


anyways I do smoke weed regularly.
Only at the end of the day though unless it's a weekend or I'm on vacation.
Gotta get all the important shit done first if I want to actually care about finishing it.

>>14613593
The first day I took mph, I decided to do my dishes and I just finished doing all of them in one go. I know, this doesn't sound impressive at all, but before, I rarely finished such a task. I'd clean some dishes, remember that there's a cup on my desk I could also clean, close the faucet, walk to my desk, see that there's a bill I've been meaning to pay for 3 months, decide to pay it, take my phone out to scan it with my banking app, see an email by my boss, so I start typing a reply, but realise that I need to look something up on my laptop, so I open it, but then there's an old 4channel thread open, in which I asked a question, so I hit refresh and see that I got an answer to a coding problem I had, so I try out if it fixes my problem, open my code, realise that I've been doing something I a bad way, so I start refactoring my code.
I suppose, most people would describe my feeling with stims as "normal"

>>14611560
top kek

>>14611280
She looks like she stinks

>>14613516
>If I have diagnosed autism, why wasn't I prescribed drugs?
They always say there are no drugs for autism. Funny thing, benzos sure killed my sensory problems in a hurry. Apparently some epilepsy drugs can help too by turning down nerve conduction in the brain (sodium channel blocker) but where's the recreational value? Certain dirtbags get all the fun pills like candy. .

>>14614643
>but where's the recreational value?
Benzos are possibly the only drug that causes more severe addiction than alcohol.

>>14614643
benzos are technically an opiate there is no free lunch take it from me, benzos will eventually leave be less and less effective and when they wear off you receive rebound anxiety but its not just anxiety your muscles can't relax you can't sleep basically the opposite of the feelings they do induce in the first place but much worse... has anyone solved the tolerance problem?

>>14611287
>you should get tested.
What kind of test is this?

>>14614669
I guess I was tongue in cheek - I only had a limited scrip for Clonazepam and that stuff worked so well I am glad I couldn't get more and never wound up an addict like Jordan Peterson. That and they put me to sleep every time and are useless if you want to function like drive or shit when on them.

With the way autism magnifies senses, there must be shit to try out that has a synergistic relationship with aspie neurology while being safe.

>>14614708
In my case, I talked to a psychiatrist for 2 times 1.5 hours and then he called my parents to get an external view, especially about how I was as a child.

>>14611280
ADHD is very much not real. There's no neurological or biological tests for it, its alleged neurological or biological aetiology completely unknown.
Children diagnosed with it share actually little with each other, meaning that the symptoms diverge much more strongly than what we would expect or even allow for any bodily disease.
ADHD is a set of symptoms mistaken for the cause of the symptoms and all of ADHD research rests on circular reasoning.
The drugs used to treat ADHD existed before ADHD (no biggie in itself), but ADHD only became popular once the patents on these same drugs were about to expire. ADHD 'medication' does in fact not treat ADHD but simply suppresses some of its symptoms.
ADHD meds cause little to no improvement in the short-term and cause multiple negative consequences in the long run. They may stunt growth, alter brain development, cause metabolical issues, chemically induce bipolar disorder and render people susceptible to drug abuse since ADHD meds based on derivates of amphitamines are virtually indistinguishable from meth.

>>14614953
>ADHD is very much not real. There's no neurological or biological tests for it
So migraine is not a real thing? What about depression?
>render people susceptible to drug abuse since ADHD meds based on derivates of amphitamines are virtually indistinguishable from meth.
"Virtually indistinguishable" for morons maybe. But medication with stimulants actually reduces the risk of addiction by a lot

>>14614959
>So migraine is not a real thing?
Some forms of migraine seem to be the result of small-scale seizures + issues with blood-flow so the pain is indicative of a clearly neurological and not psychiatric issue.
>What about depression?
Same as ADHD. Clinical depression went up from 0.2 % prevalence in 1970 to something like 12 % (lol) in 2020. One out of five women or so take anti-depressants.
>But medication with stimulants actually reduces the risk of addiction by a lot
Every study to this date has disproven that claim. In fact, they show that medication with stimulants statistically increase drug misuse in those who take them because the stimulants 1. function as gateway drugs and 2. naturally desensitize the brain in regards to adverse effects of other chemically similar drugs like meth or cocaine. It's the same shit they are now trying to pull off with tons of other diagnoses including conduct disorder, autism etc. You can't claim that psychiatric diagnoses are neurological if you don't have the necessary proof. We don't have them, so people claiming that ADHD is a neurological issue do so either because they bought into the pharma-psychiatric advertisement or do so in bad faith.

>>14611295
those cankles are female

>>14615001
ADHD is linked to genetic factors and measurable differences in the brain. How can someone claim that this is made up?
LDX is not meth and I honestly don't get how someone could say that in good faith.

>>14612063
>Motherfuckers, do you understand what the definition of a disorder is?
Do you? People use these "disorders" as excuses. Oh I can't pay attention BECAUSE of my ADHD, woe is me. Then they never try to change it, and they even dig themselves further into the hole, focusing less and less because "that's just who I am because I have ADHD." Bull fucking shit.

>>14615127
>Then they never try to change it
Sure they spend hundreds of dollars on therapy session to get a diagnosis just so they can feel a little bit better about being lazy fucks. Sure, they see their shrink weekly to never change anything about it. The medication that costs a couple hundred per month? Just for attention.
If you don't know shit, just stfu

>>14615151
>The medication that costs a couple hundred per month?
Why does it cost a couple hundreds if it costs 5 $ to make those pills? Is this stuff price-gauged like diabetes injections?

>>14615189
Ah, changing the topic from "the patients are just lazy shits who use it as an excuse" and when you see that they invest a lot of time, money and energy in treating their disease, you play the big pharma card. You know what? Why don't you leave this thread alone if you cannot contribute something productive to this thread.

>>14611280
>psychiatry

Not science.

>>14615196
No. I'm asking very specific questions. I'm in no way here to claim that your lack of attention and issues with executive functioning are unreal things. I just question your position that attributing all that to a thing called ADHD is actually helpful in any way, when I contend that the actual neurobiological proof for ADHD is weak at best. If we had hard proof, I wouldn't discuss that. I also want you to think about whether or not it is smart to think of you as having some specific thing that causes you to have those issues. Are you doing something against them, trying out ways to cope with it or are you just consooming pills and get excited for the next one?

>>14615228
>If we had hard proof, I wouldn't discuss that.
Why do you even care if there are people with that condition and they are better with treatment? And unlike homeopathy, those things are approved as medication, so an effect greater than the placebo effect is a requirement that was fulfilled.
>Are you doing something against them, trying out ways to cope with it or are you just consooming pills and get excited for the next one?
I think there's a misunderstanding. Even though you think, they're essentially meth, one is not excited for them. It actually happens that I'm scatterbrained at work and when I come home I see that I forgot my meds that day. And you don't do regular psychotherapy to just pop pills. You just need a prescription and a pharmacist for that. Yes, psychotherapy resolves mainly around finding coping mechanisms and dealing with comorbidities, like depression. Especially if people are diagnosed late, they are often exhausted, depressed and just burnt out from working three times as hard to perform as well as others.
I don't know what you picture, that people can just say "it's adhd, nothing I can do about it" and magically pass exams and evaluations at work? If you underperform, your boss won't have any of "that's just how I am". Because then you soon won't work there anymore if that's just how you are.

>>14615272
>if there are people with that condition and they are better with treatment?
Because most aren't actually getting much better with treatment.
>And unlike homeopathy, those things are approved as medication
Given how the FDA works, this is not an argument for your side. the FDA approves plenty of completely useless drugs. They just ensure that these drugs don't kill you in one week.
>Even though you think, they're essentially meth, one is not excited for them.
It's not just me that thinks that. They're chemically extremely similar. I also know what you mean by not getting excited for them. This is because you're essentially on a permanent low-dosage trip. Once you get off that trip, you will experience drug withdrawal symptoms which, as far as I've been told by many ADHD people, are often pretty similar to ADHD symptoms.
>that people can just say "it's adhd, nothing I can do about it"
Oh boy. I've heard that exact line so often from some ADHD lad.
>and magically pass exams and evaluations at work? If you underperform, your boss won't have any of "that's just how I am"
So it's about socioeconomic factors. Be a good wagie and if you can't be one, then there must be something wrong with you? Don't mind my naive interpretation. I'm aware that you can't just stop it but I'm amazed and often shocked at the utilitaristic and cynical approach many people have that if you can't successfully participate in a neoliberal society, you're diseased. Anyway, thanks I guess for listening to me instead of going into a meltdown, which people actually did when discussing me. It's your journey. Just be wary.

>>14611280
Can confirm
>Depressed NEET with ADHD with no hope in sight

You need to be a robotic automaton to succeed in unnatural modern society. I will remain a failure because of that unfortunately.

>>14615362
>Because most aren't actually getting much better with treatment.
First of all: [citation needed], but also, why do you care?
>Given how the FDA works, this is not an argument for your side. the FDA approves plenty of completely useless drugs. They just ensure that these drugs don't kill you in one week.
Ok, then look at EMA and SwissMedic.
>permanent low-dosage trip
No and why do you try to gaslight me? There's no trip and no withdrawal. If I don't take it for a day. It's just my normal ADHD symptoms. Most weekends I don't take it and I'm completely fine. Just organising at work is much harder without it. That's not what meth withdrawal looks like.
>Be a good wagie
Again, fuck off with your gaslighting. I'm a scientist, not a wagie. I don't do this job for the money. I mean, it's nice that I earn a living like this, but not being able to do my job would hurt much more than not getting money. So no. No economic factors.
>which people actually did when discussing me
Understandable. You are misinformed, have a disgusting, passive-aggressive style of discussion, constantly assume false things about me and most of the time it seems like gaslighting. If the people go into meltdown, it says more about you than it says about them. Read your comments again and try to put yourself into the shoes if someone who always struggled, somehow got by, but only by working several times as hard as others.
Luckily I haven't had any addiction, but people with ADHD are much more prone to addiction than an average person. Insinuating they're constantly high on meth is just low. And from a pharmaceutical point of view extremely dumb. But not everyone with ADHD knows this and neither do you, apparently.

>>14615189
The U.S. has problems with pharmaceutical pricing because of how third party agencies that do cost negotiations for the government get kickbacks for setting prices on drugs. They're under closer scrutiny only more recently. You'll see an example of some generic drugs priced at more expensive than even the brand name in instances, or even have an over the counter drug that costs significantly more through Medicare drug coverage. It's heavily corrupted. The ADHD drugs themselves vary on cost down to manufacturer. If your pharmacy has negotiated with 3 different manufacturers of the same generic drug, they'll charge a different price for each one. They're also mixed with different filler ingredients at different ratios, and are only required to have a certain amount of the active ingredient in the brand name. This can make quality vary and side effects significantly worse across manufacturers. Many insurers will not cover brand name drugs without a significantly higher out of pocket cost though. I pay $35/month for Adderall XR at my pharmacy without involving insurance. Goodrx.com would have been a good resource for >>14615151.
>>14615228
There is evidence of it being a neurological problem. A recent study came out measuring ERG b-wave amplitude across ADHD, ASD, and control groups showing distinct differences between the three. There weren't many in the ADHD group, so more evidence for this particular study is needed. It's one of many that have been done showing neurological differences though. I tried posting the doi and the regular link, but 4chan is seeing it as spam.

>>14615362
>cynical approach many people have that if you can't successfully participate in a neoliberal society, you're diseased.
>>14615376
>You need to be a robotic automaton to succeed in unnatural modern society.

Which is why we neurodiverse are the only ones with souls, compared to fucking normie NPCs who are horses "broken to the bit" of being wagies that mock us for our freedom. I'm an aspie (above one that slept with an ADHD girl) and we are in the same fight against tyranny.

>>14615409
Thanks for the tip with the website. I'm in Switzerland though, prices are regulated and it's a bit more difficult. It is in general covered by insurance (again a hint that stimulants are considered an effective therapy), but you have to pay out of your pocket until you reach your deductible. After that they cover 90%, then it goes down to ~<$50

>>14615428
That's a huge difference. Don't you have a healthcare marketplace similar to the U.S., but yours is leagues better? Do they not allow generic drug manufacturers to compete? Forgive me. I'm not sure if patent laws are a thing there, or how they regulate.

>>14615406
>First of all: [citation needed]
Plenty.
Look into the 3-year follow up of the NIMH MTA study, there's also a 8-year follow up.
Another study titled: The effect of stimulant medication on the learning of academic curricula in children with ADHD.
>but also, why do you care?
I don't. I just see these ADHD threads pop up all the time and reference studies that may go counter to your overly optimistic statements regarding amphetamine use for ADHD.
>No and why do you try to gaslight me?
What else is it if it is not a low-dosage trip? Why not call it trip? How is a trip different from a state of being mind-altered?
>If I don't take it for a day. It's just my normal ADHD symptoms.
Don't dismiss the hypothesis just because you're happy with the null hypothesis. Without having that tested by yourself, how would you even know? Weaning off drugs involves weeks or even months.
>Again, fuck off with your gaslighting.
I'm not gaslighting. Gaslighting is something completely different. I'm asking critical questions. I'm not trying to make you believe stuff that isn't based on well thought out arguments.
>You are misinformed, have a disgusting, passive-aggressive style of discussion, constantly assume false things about me
I assume very little. I even acknowledge your difficulties, yet you made no attempt to look at your difficulties from an angle other than the biomedical model. This isn't gaslighting, it's you being stubborn.
>You are misinformed, have a disgusting, passive-aggressive style of discussion
Here again. You provide no hard evidence that i'm misinformed. My style of discussion is calm yet firm. Obviously, I'm trying to support my own position.
>and try to put yourself into the shoes if someone who always struggled,
Which I've acknowledged. Once again, I ask. Does it really help you to think of your difficulties as being due to a neurological disorder?

>>14615409
>There is evidence of it being a neurological problem. A recent study came out measuring ERG b-wave amplitude across ADHD, ASD, and control groups showing distinct differences between the three.
I have argued in a thread some weeks ago that simply equating psychiatric diagnoses, there I used the case of autism, with disordered brain states or structures is not actually supported by the evidence. In short, 1. the studies are rarely if at all reproduced, 2. studies often contradict each other, 3. if a psychiatric condition was in fact undoubtedly neurological, we wouldn't check them by using behavior questionnaires, 4. even if a neurological structure would turn out to be associated with ADHD etc., this wouldn't prove in itself that it is pathological since this depends on our assumption of things like ADHD etc. being pathological which is not based on science but based on socio-cultural expectations and norms.

>>14615451
>Do they not allow generic drug manufacturers to compete?
They do, but probably the patent for vyvanse hasn't expired yet. I think there's only one manufacturer. And you most likely you can't order it, it's a special "narcotics prescription". Apparently if you take ten times the normal dose, you can get high, although pretty inefficiently.

>>14615457
>I'm asking critical questions
>My style of discussion is calm yet firm
Honestly not meant as an insult or to provoke you: You're not exactly neurotypical either, are you?

>>14615509
Ohh, ok. Yeah, the patents aren't expired on it yet. It's because of the lysine. It has a time release type of effect.

>>14615526
Which coincidentally is the reason you don't get high or on a "trip" from it, at least at normal doses.

>>14615509
>You're not exactly neurotypical either, are you?
To answer that question. I'm on 4chan, figure this one out for yourself.

>>14615542
Right. It reduces abuse potential for that same reason. It made me incredibly paranoid and have mild auditory hallucinations though, so I'll wish you the best if it works for you.

>>14611462
>Sounds like the perfect combo.

Not the one you're responding to but I'm also autistic and dating a woman with ADHD. It really is a perfect combo. She doesn't do sarcasm and is very open with her emotions so it's been easier for me to form a relationships. At social events she's bubble and energetic, making friends with everyone and introducing me to them. By myself I don't really socialize. I'm mature, responsible, keep her grounded, and help her with tasks she doesn't have the attention span for.

>>14615509
Alright. No counter arguments? You concede?

>>14615543
I know it's hard for literal autists, but let me tell you with all anonymous 4chan honesty: I would find your style pretty unpleasant and off-putting. If you ever have interest in someone, try not to do that. The people you interacted with were probably either polite and restrained enough to say nothing, or.. well, had a meltdown.

>>14615566
Consider it a concession if you wish. I just realised that it's pointless. I'm friends with some Aspergers and once they're in this stubborn mode, there's nothing you can do except say "yep".

>>14615578
>I know it's hard for literal autists,
missing the innuendo, I see.
>Consider it a concession if you wish. I just realised that it's pointless.
>I'm friends with some Aspergers and once they're in this stubborn mode,
It's up to you whether or not you find templates like ADHD and Aspergers useful. I personally don't. Just a reminder: From autist to ADHDlet. We're not so different. Don't think I don't know your struggles.

>>14615207
>Not science.
If it's not about humans, it's not worth studying.

>>14616253
Nooo looking at rocks and dirt on other planets is much better science. Understanding and treating disorders is pointless, but knowing what percentage of mars is silicate will advance humanity

>>14616253
Based.

>>14615413
>Which is why we neurodiverse are the only ones with souls, compared to fucking normie NPCs who are horses "broken to the bit" of being wagies that mock us for our freedom.
Bruh, don't start.

>>14611280
Ey bro fr fr no cap straight bussin? She low tier kinda mid

>>14615413
>>14618479
It is true though. Your brain basically falls apart without lead, as the connections are unstable.

>>14611280
ugly short toes not impressed

>>14611280
ADHD is real like autism but what causes it i would say comes down to fucked up childhoods being detached for so long caused you to not be able to concentrate but situational differences occur.

>>14611330
Bingo.

>>14611330
um yea pretty much

>>14615116
Because it's not clear cut midwit. Anyone can say that about anything. If you can see ADHD in a brain scan then they should use that as a diagnosis, not some fat fuck psychologist.

>>14611462
I’m comorbid ADHD AND OCD (pure o) it’s pretty awesome and terrible at the same time. Medication does help, but there is not enough research about it for me to read. If any /sci/ bros know of good dual diagnosis of OCD/Adhd, please help a curious Bro